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| 04:02:15 | [Saint] | Bwahahahaha....yeah, ...nah, that's not gonna happen. |
| 04:03:09 | [Saint] | buflib is *so* entrenched in the heart of Rockbox, it is basically impossible to cast the bugger out without a LOT of backbreaking. |
| 04:04:00 | [Saint] | I would be very curious to see if some of these strange issues just magically fix themselves if it were to no longer be present, as I suspect they might. |
| 04:05:42 | [Saint] | There's no "cut buflib out" its basically "go back in time to pre-buflib, and then massage back in a shit-tonne of commits, many of which rely on it" |
| 04:05:49 | [Saint] | ...so, nope! :) |
| 04:07:41 | [Saint] | I have a sneaking suspicion that if one were to core out either buflib, the theme engine, or both, many active flyspray tasks would become irrelevant. |
| 04:08:22 | [Saint] | I like these types of suspicion, though, I get to have an opinion whilst knowing that it would be a massive amount of work for anyone to prove me wrong ;) |
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| 07:27:54 | jhMikeS | [Saint]: I know what to do. No need to kill buflib. I just don't like stepping all over everything in sight, even if I want to., |
| 07:28:46 | [Saint] | So we can test "the old ways", by disconnecting buflib, and leaving it in place? |
| 07:29:01 | [Saint] | I didn't see that as being possible, or rather, more work than just gutting it out. |
| 07:29:27 | [Saint] | also, agreed, either way involves touching pretty much everything. |
| 07:30:45 | jhMikeS | I think tweaking the design is the way. Many problems were there before it that are still there but it does introduce its own difficulties. |
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| 10:41:35 | kugel | [Saint]: where did your buflib rant tonight come from? |
| 10:42:40 | [Saint] | I'm just sick of seeing all these random issues that came to light (perhaps, by chance) at approximately the same time. |
| 10:42:56 | [Saint] | Its hard to see this as what seems to be an accepted issue now. |
| 10:43:37 | [Saint] | Its nice to know it isn't /just/ me that noticed the timing. |
| 10:44:08 | [Saint] | The rant came from how insanely hard it would be to actually confirm this. |
| 10:45:19 | copper | the timing with regards to what? |
| 10:45:30 | copper | some recent change? |
| 10:45:49 | [Saint] | primarily the adoption of buflib by the theme engine. |
| 10:45:54 | [Saint] | this isn't a recent thing. |
| 10:46:32 | kugel | [Saint]: which issue? |
| 10:46:57 | [Saint] | "themes cause <insert batshit crazy behavior here>" |
| 10:47:23 | kugel | can you point to a specific fs task or forum post? |
| 10:47:25 | copper | is that over a year old? |
| 10:48:32 | [Saint] | lebellium seems to be the master of crafting themes that manage to break USB. |
| 10:48:38 | [Saint] | This seems to be the primary issue. |
| 10:48:54 | copper | lol |
| 10:48:55 | kugel | I know about the radioart and rds text bugs (the first is related to, but not directly caused by, buflib) |
| 10:49:07 | [Saint] | Another user was in here a few days ago trying to help uys with the N2G USB stuff, and changing themes affected the behaviour there as well. |
| 10:49:44 | [Saint] | the primary issue is "themes somehow break USB" |
| 10:49:51 | [Saint] | and its been popping up more and more recently. |
| 10:50:04 | kugel | would be worth trying if my fix for the radio art also helps for USB bugs |
| 10:50:15 | [Saint] | Oh, certainly. |
| 10:50:39 | [Saint] | FWIW, I'm not blaming you. So, don't read into that. I appreciate the work, immensely. |
| 10:50:52 | [Saint] | I just think, in hindsight, it may have gone a little too quickly. |
| 10:51:40 | [Saint] | The problem for those trying to look into it is that it is quite complicated, and touches basically everything. |
| 10:51:49 | copper | [Saint]: how much of that (themes break USB) is people repeating what they read here? |
| 10:52:06 | copper | i.e. a rampant rumor |
| 10:52:39 | kugel | [Saint]: buflib itself is not the problem (it's pretty solid in my experience), but using it properly indeed adds complexity |
| 10:52:53 | [Saint] | copper: I couldn't say, really. But a lot of it is "confirmed" by the user with trial and error. Many users I have not seen here before, although, it may be under a different name. |
| 10:53:19 | [Saint] | ie. "USB works with theme A, but not with themes B, C, and D" |
| 10:53:30 | kugel | the playback code is using it improperly which causes radioart problems (seemingly unrelated, but the code is connected through the global buffer management) |
| 10:53:35 | [Saint] | which, just should happen. It shouldn;t be possible. |
| 10:54:06 | [Saint] | *shouldn't |
| 10:54:33 | copper | well it seems that my Fuze+ theme download count increased dramatically after I rewored the theme files to potential fix USB breakage |
| 10:54:39 | copper | reworked* |
| 10:54:47 | copper | potentially |
| 10:54:49 | copper | geez |
| 10:55:11 | [Saint] | I wanted to attempt to go back in tiome to pre-buflib, and see if I could massage the work til now back into it...but that is an incredibly daunting task. |
| 10:55:12 | copper | I wish there were stats |
| 10:55:25 | [Saint] | So much so I looked at it for a few minutes and burst out laughing. |
| 10:56:06 | kugel | thinking about it, yes my radio art fix could very well fix the usb problem as well |
| 10:56:19 | copper | what is radio art? |
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| 10:56:33 | [Saint] | station art for FMS |
| 10:56:49 | copper | where does the art come from? |
| 10:57:02 | [Saint] | ie. "when tuner_freq == foo; display bar" |
| 10:57:08 | [Saint] | theme assets. |
| 10:57:17 | kugel | [Saint]: the skin engine should be easy to disconnect from buflib |
| 10:57:43 | [Saint] | you and I have varying degrees of ease, apparently ;) |
| 10:57:51 | kugel | it has the classic allocation mechanism still in, e.g. checkwps doesnt include buflib |
| 10:57:57 | copper | my theme went from 100+ over a few months, to 900+ in like a month |
| 10:58:01 | copper | downloads* |
| 10:58:13 | [Saint] | I thought about just the theme engine alone, but I couldn't discount it just being broken in general across the board. |
| 10:58:28 | [Saint] | so I wanted to cut it out completely. |
| 10:58:53 | kugel | no, that's not easy, in the same way it wasn't easy to add it to the codebase :) |
| 10:59:00 | [Saint] | Indeed. |
| 10:59:51 | kugel | [Saint]: please point people with theme/usb problems to http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/483/ |
| 10:59:59 | [Saint] | I understand how my earlier rant may have seemed like "Gah! Bloody kugel...bloody breakin' things!", but that wasn't the case, sorry. I was just frustrated. |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:02:18 | [Saint] | buflib seems to be the new tagcache. :) |
| 11:02:31 | [Saint] | "Errrr....I'm not touching that!" |
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| 11:05:28 | [Saint] | jhMikeS seemed as though he may have an idea of what is going awry, but he is often quite secretive/vague about what he is working on until we see the WIP, so I dunno. |
| 11:06:19 | [Saint] | After many combined hours of staring at it, I have only a very basic understanding of it myself. |
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| 11:08:41 | kugel | gah, stupid whitespace-only changes :/ |
| 11:13:11 | kugel | [Saint]: can you reproduce the usb problems? |
| 11:14:37 | [Saint] | I have been unable to, sadly. I suspect *nix Vs. Windows may be at play here. |
| 11:15:07 | [Saint] | I attempted to the other day (this was N2G specific), but I couldn't reproduce what OP was seeing. |
| 11:16:00 | [Saint] | That is another difficulty. Assuming it *is* buflib related, it may not /just/ be specific to the theme, but also the exact revision of the build, and whatever else resides in the buffer at the time. |
| 11:16:51 | [Saint] | ...a way to dump the current device state and play with it in an emulator would be *awesome*. |
| 11:18:05 | [Saint] | It is quite a nasty cycle. Those that see the problem usually can't debug it, and those who can debug it can't see it. :-S |
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| 11:26:36 | lebellium | I read the logs :) |
| 11:26:48 | lebellium | so I should try your patch kugel? |
| 11:26:57 | kugel | yea |
| 11:28:01 | [Saint] | Since you are a 5th Dan Blackbelt in creating themes that break USB, yes. :) |
| 11:28:57 | lebellium | Hehe ;) |
| 11:30:08 | lebellium | I'll try with Clip Zip after my breakfast. But I already see the same issue as usual: I just plugged my Clip Zip to the PC and this time it works while last times I tried it froze with my theme. Random random.... :( |
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| 11:33:06 | lebellium | from the main menu with no music playback it just worked. But now I try again while playing music and from WPS and now it freezes as usual. Nice. I'll see if this patch helps |
| 11:34:01 | [Saint] | That seems to confirm my thinking that whatever is currently in the buffer has an effect on the behavior. |
| 11:35:10 | pamaury | haha, good news! I'm 99% sure i've identified the reason why the fuze+ locks up after bootloader USB mode :) |
| 11:35:25 | [Saint] | ...it is bufib? |
| 11:35:29 | * | [Saint] runs... |
| 11:35:30 | [Saint] | :P |
| 11:35:50 | pamaury | ;) not really :p |
| 11:37:14 | pamaury | it's related to power management, the init sequences changes the cpu speed before calling power management. But on imx233, changing the frequency requires power related changes, and something goes wrong apparently |
| 11:40:02 | kugel | lebellium: does it freeze on connect or on disconnect |
| 11:40:03 | kugel | ? |
| 11:46:44 | lebellium | kugel: both? I mean it won't connect (sometimes starting to get recognized in Windows Explorer then fails) and when I disconnect it, it's stuck, I have to reset the device |
| 11:47:04 | kugel | ok |
| 11:47:27 | lebellium | I try your patch in a few minutes |
| 11:50:23 | polemon | hey guys |
| 11:50:44 | polemon | did you manage to work on the USB issue? |
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| 11:53:13 | kugel | lebellium: can I download the theme? |
| 12:00 |
| 12:01:37 | copper | rayboradio on the Classic is a known offender |
| 12:02:14 | lebellium | kugel: lebellium%20Samsung-like&searchtype=name">http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?searchtheme&searchword=lebellium%20Samsung-like&searchtype=name |
| 12:02:58 | copper | lebellium: nice link |
| 12:04:07 | | Quit onder` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 12:04:20 | copper | you've been busy! |
| 12:05:11 | lebellium | ^^ |
| 12:05:17 | [Saint] | Someone likes Rammstein *way* too much ;) |
| 12:05:36 | [Saint] | that, and VBR mp3... |
| 12:05:39 | lebellium | that's marketing. To identify any of my theme in one second :D |
| 12:06:57 | lebellium | but now a common joke on some forums is that I only have one album on my mp3 players ahaha |
| 12:07:09 | [Saint] | s/album/track/ |
| 12:07:26 | [Saint] | There's no proof you have the rest of the album ;) |
| 12:12:52 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 12:15:44 | kugel | lebellium: another question, since you maintain a theme for so many targets: What would help to reduce your workload and enable sharing a single code base for many/all themes? |
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| 12:17:29 | kugel | hm, the mouse navigation doesnt quite work in the clipzip sim |
| 12:17:44 | lebellium | I use more or less the same code for any of my themes. But I'm not sure it's really clean, easy to understand. It's not the cabbiev2 quality standard :) |
| 12:18:01 | [Saint] | kugel: nor does trying to reproduce USb errors in the SIM, I'm afriad. |
| 12:18:15 | [Saint] | I have *never* been able to get USb to behave anywhere near the real thing. |
| 12:18:30 | * | [Saint] wonders why he always manages to type USb |
| 12:18:47 | [Saint] | USB |
| 12:22:25 | copper | is the theme/buflib thing the ONLY known cause of USB problems? |
| 12:22:42 | copper | s/known/suspected/ |
| 12:22:56 | [Saint] | I'm not even sure anyone can say with absolute certainty it is the cause. |
| 12:24:19 | copper | in other words: have people reported USB problems with cabbiev2? |
| 12:25:06 | lebellium | kugel: the patch doesn't fix the issue, sorry |
| 12:25:21 | kugel | lebellium: okay, that's unfortunate |
| 12:25:26 | [Saint] | copper: yes. |
| 12:25:47 | kugel | I'm not aware of reports with cabbiev2 |
| 12:25:55 | [Saint] | but I'm not sure what that has to do with your prior question, nor how it could be another wording thereof. |
| 12:26:19 | [Saint] | cabbie still uses the theme engine/buflib just as any other theme does. |
| 12:26:25 | copper | well I thought it was a given that cabbiev2 didn't exhibit any of the theme-related issues |
| 12:26:37 | [Saint] | why? |
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| 12:26:48 | copper | past conversations |
| 12:26:56 | copper | I guess I got it wrong |
| 12:27:19 | [Saint] | It does happen. I guess it relates to the rather small footprint cabbie has. |
| 12:27:43 | kugel | I assume it doesnt happen with cabbie until it's on FS |
| 12:28:05 | kugel | I'm not hunting bugs based on rumors |
| 12:28:51 | lebellium | *PANIC* playlist_resume (); 00M when disconnecting it. That's a new one for me :D |
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| 12:29:12 | [Saint] | polemon was playing with this the other day. |
| 12:29:34 | [Saint] | He initially stated that cabbieV2 *didn't* display any issues, but then later discovered it in fact...did. |
| 12:29:34 | kugel | lebellium: so it didn't connect but also didnt freeze? then this panic occured on disconnect? |
| 12:30:16 | kugel | does it connect fine with other themes? |
| 12:30:39 | kugel | [Saint]: I don't even know who polemon is |
| 12:30:44 | lebellium | kugel: this time it connected properly but when disconnecting, instead of getting stuck on the USB screen, it directly displayed this PANIC message |
| 12:30:55 | [Saint] | logged channel. |
| 12:31:06 | kugel | lebellium: okay, that's an improvement :) |
| 12:31:28 | kugel | it means the buffer is still owned by someone else when the playlist code tries to grab it |
| 12:31:50 | kugel | without the patch two pieces of code would access the buffer at the same time |
| 12:32:40 | [Saint] | polemon actually discovered something that isn't so easy to see on many targets, that in many cases, USB behaved fine if USB was inserted *before* booting the device. |
| 12:33:18 | lebellium | yes there may be some improvements with this patch but unfortunately I cannot check that very well since it's totally random. Over the last 15 minutes I connected it to the computer 10-15x and sometimes it works, sometimes not, in the same conditions :( |
| 12:33:55 | [Saint] | Yes, that's about as far as we got the other day "Oh! Ohh! I think there's a pattern...oh, wait, nope...shit." |
| 12:34:18 | kugel | lebellium: can you add that diff on top? http://pastie.org/8117758 |
| 12:34:58 | kugel | [Saint]: please log such observations on the relavant FS tasks (or open new ones) |
| 12:35:26 | [Saint] | Isn't that basically heresay? |
| 12:35:35 | lebellium | I'm not sure what I am supposed to do with that kugel, I'm still a git/linux/rockbox newbie |
| 12:35:40 | [Saint] | I can only direct those seeing the problem to do so. |
| 12:36:01 | kugel | you can't expect people to read all backlogs when they (re-)visit such stuff later on |
| 12:36:44 | kugel | [Saint]: yes, I meant to say that |
| 12:36:51 | [Saint] | I don't. But is it not trivial to grep logs when given the information to do so? |
| 12:37:14 | kugel | no it isnt, it also isnt trivial to get a local copy of all logs |
| 12:37:25 | [Saint] | I certainly don't read all the backlog. No way I expect anyone else to. |
| 12:38:08 | lebellium | kugel: how do I add this diff? just "cd Rockbox" and paste that text in the terminal? |
| 12:38:15 | kugel | just saying that these observations have to be logged where they're relevant and can be found easily |
| 12:38:22 | kugel | irc logs aren't suitable for this |
| 12:38:41 | kugel | lebellium: download as raw and use patch to apply |
| 12:38:57 | kugel | or edit the file manually, it's a one-liner :) |
| 12:39:08 | [Saint] | lebellium: download as raw, save as "name_here>.patch; apply with patch |
| 12:39:20 | [Saint] | or, apply it by hand (more difficult) |
| 12:39:40 | kugel | [Saint]: no need to repeat me :P |
| 12:39:43 | lebellium | funny, I would say changing a line in a file is easier for me than applying a patch in the terminal :p |
| 12:40:01 | [Saint] | I was just going to correct that, usually it isn't a single line ;) |
| 12:40:10 | [Saint] | apparently I'm also lagging. |
| 12:48:23 | kugel | if what I suspect is true than this is a stone-age old bug (older than buflib) |
| 12:50:49 | [Saint] | Oh? |
| 12:51:04 | kugel | lebellium: does that line help? |
| 12:51:06 | [Saint] | Do tell, now my connection seems to have sorted itself out. |
| 12:51:51 | lebellium | kugel; I'm trying to mount Clip Zip to install the new build, but somehow even with cabbiev2 it won't mount now :) |
| 12:52:17 | [Saint] | OF, rolo from sdcard? |
| 12:52:31 | [Saint] | There's options man. Options! :P |
| 12:53:00 | lebellium | OF means 20 min database update. Never lol |
| 12:53:55 | kugel | when I last used the OF it didnt update when you boot with the cable inserted and you could hard-reset it between unmounting/safe removal and unplugging the cable |
| 12:55:04 | kugel | the clipzip is as3525 like older clips right? |
| 12:57:30 | funman | kugel: amsv2 like clipv2 and clip+ |
| 12:57:44 | funman | so as3525 + tiny changes |
| 12:57:52 | kugel | ah yea, I remember |
| 12:58:12 | kugel | it's a long time ago since I was into that :) |
| 12:58:21 | funman | biggest change is as3543 PMU + different USB and SD controllers |
| 12:58:29 | funman | me too but it's printed deep in my mind :P |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:25 | kugel | different USB controller? |
| 13:00:34 | funman | amsv2 controller is the same than nano2g |
| 13:01:02 | lebellium | kugel: next time I don't listen to you :P "Refreshing your media" and it takes forever with 8 + 32GB |
| 13:01:15 | kugel | funman: aren't there problems with that controller (or the driver)? |
| 13:01:29 | kugel | lebellium: up on boot? |
| 13:01:34 | lebellium | yes... |
| 13:01:44 | | Quit polemon (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 13:02:20 | kugel | hm, don't know. all samsa OFs I've used skipped that when the cable was inserted at boot |
| 13:02:22 | funman | kugel: yes it crashes sometimes but works most of the time |
| 13:02:58 | kugel | perhaps the connect problems lebellium reports are caused by that rather than buffer/buflib/skin engine issues? |
| 13:03:24 | kugel | also [Saint] said the nano2g has similar issues? |
| 13:04:02 | [Saint] | don't they share the same USB controller? |
| 13:04:27 | [Saint] | Its shared with at least one other target, iirc. |
| 13:04:40 | [Saint] | N2G USB being broken has been a known issue for some time, though. |
| 13:10:23 | | Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 13:12:30 | kugel | lebellium: still refreshing? ::( |
| 13:12:48 | lebellium | updated RB build and now "refreshing media" while disconnecting. Arghhhh I'll kill Sansa people |
| 13:14:01 | kugel | saratoga: can you please refer to the original task when you close ones as duplicate? |
| 13:14:57 | kugel | lebellium: the rolo-from-sd idea would have been quicker |
| 13:15:13 | lebellium | probably. If I new what that means :D |
| 13:15:28 | lebellium | knew* |
| 13:15:43 | kugel | put the new rockbox.sansa on the sd and "play it" from the old rockbox installation |
| 13:15:59 | kugel | or copy it over to the .rockbox folder and reboot |
| 13:17:19 | lebellium | ah! |
| 13:17:21 | lebellium | ok good to know |
| 13:19:10 | kugel | (you could also have removed the sd while booting the OF so the refresh doesnt last as long) |
| 13:24:17 | lebellium | 1st try: worked. 2nd try: doesn't mount, and PANIC playlist_resume while disconnecting |
| 13:24:43 | kugel | okay |
| 13:25:08 | | Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:0:c38c:c38c:2445:cf4b:3d69:be3e) |
| 13:25:20 | kugel | lebellium: can you retry with that line changed to "sleep(HZ*10);"? |
| 13:26:57 | kugel | that's a 10s sleep so don't be surprised if the UI doesnt do anything for that long after disconnect |
| 13:28:16 | lebellium | ok |
| 13:43:47 | | Quit olspookishmagus (Quit: All for nothing) |
| 13:47:43 | lebellium | kugel; 1st try: 10 seconds then OK, 2nd try: 10 seconds then Panic playlist_resume |
| 13:47:47 | lebellium | while disconnecting |
| 13:48:02 | kugel | did it connect? |
| 13:48:10 | lebellium | yes both times |
| 13:48:27 | kugel | gevaerts: ping |
| 13:49:06 | lebellium | and now 3rd time: won't connect "undefined instruction". I take a break, these USB issues make me crazy |
| 13:49:17 | kugel | hm, I'm surprised it connected in the 2nd case |
| 13:49:38 | kugel | I can see how it panics when it didnt properly connect, but if it connected it shouldnt panic |
| 13:50:11 | kugel | undefined instruction? Now that's really weird |
| 13:50:41 | lebellium | and sometimes it replaces my status bar with the failsafe status bar to connect |
| 13:50:57 | lebellium | it's another behaviour every time I connect it |
| 13:51:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:53:35 | lebellium | I confirm it may mount properly but when disconnecting, it displays panic playlist_resume after 10s |
| 13:53:39 | lebellium | I got it a 2nd time |
| 14:00 |
| 14:03:55 | kugel | lebellium: alright, I need the help of gevaerts now, thanks for your testing |
| 14:06:19 | lebellium | you're welcome. But given the fact it's a highly random issue, I don't think it's possible to fix it, unless a dev has a Clip Zip and faces the same issue. |
| 14:08:29 | lebellium | Only [Saint] talked about that until now. All other reports are from normal users like me, not devs. |
| 14:09:06 | [Saint] | Of course its possible to fix. |
| 14:09:10 | kugel | there aren't so many devs anymore :( |
| 14:09:36 | [Saint] | It never used to happen, which means we were either A: getting it right, or B: not pissing it off as much as we are now. |
| 14:09:46 | [Saint] | the trick is getting it back to one of those states :) |
| 14:10:12 | copper | bisecting over a year's worth of commits? |
| 14:10:13 | [Saint] | Also, sadly, yes. |
| 14:10:15 | copper | should be fun! |
| 14:10:29 | [Saint] | In terms of active committers, this project is in reasonably bad shape. |
| 14:10:39 | kugel | bisecting random behavior isnt useful |
| 14:10:58 | copper | right |
| 14:11:04 | [Saint] | We need new blood. But DAPs are no longer fun. |
| 14:11:16 | copper | they're not? |
| 14:11:31 | lebellium | [Saint]: Rockbox has been ported to Clip Zip since late 2011 now, almost 2 years. I've been reported the theme issues since then. Nothing new on themes breaking USB for 2 years. I really think that if a dev faced the issue, that would be easier to fix. |
| 14:11:39 | [Saint] | Seeing as how a phone can do everything, and more, no..not really. |
| 14:12:20 | copper | many smartphones are still low capacity, and many have bad output |
| 14:12:31 | copper | low capacity without sdcard expansion* |
| 14:12:48 | [Saint] | data plans+cloud storage |
| 14:13:09 | copper | streaming is impractical in many situations |
| 14:13:10 | kugel | copper: most phones are good enough |
| 14:13:26 | copper | (if not most situations) |
| 14:13:58 | copper | I mean there are many reasons people still buy DAPs |
| 14:14:13 | copper | even though that includes Android and iOS DAPs |
| 14:14:23 | [Saint] | Right. But those people are A: aging, and/or B: enthusiasts. |
| 14:14:32 | [Saint] | look around your various hifi communities. |
| 14:14:41 | [Saint] | Those that frequent them are aging. |
| 14:16:16 | kugel | lebellium: I think it's expected that the default statusbar is shown |
| 14:16:50 | lebellium | kugel: AFAIK, no. A |
| 14:16:58 | kugel | iirc skins are disabled during usb because they require access to the storage (those with custom fonts at least) which cannot be done |
| 14:17:10 | lebellium | skins are not disabled during USB |
| 14:17:59 | copper | [Saint]: indeed, I guess that younger people also have lower storage needs |
| 14:18:00 | [Saint] | it _should_ dump what it needs into the buffer when the screen changes. |
| 14:18:12 | [Saint] | No need to access the disc for the theme during connection. |
| 14:18:14 | kugel | lebellium: okay, but the fonts are unloaded |
| 14:18:23 | kugel | no idea how that works if the skin uses that font |
| 14:18:34 | [Saint] | It seems to "Just Work" |
| 14:18:43 | [Saint] | My themes maintain userfont during USB. |
| 14:18:59 | lebellium | I don't know how it works but with any of my theme, only the menu list is replaced by the rockbox connection logo. The background and my status bar (with fonts) is still there |
| 14:19:08 | kugel | [Saint]: the code clearly unloads all fonts |
| 14:19:22 | [Saint] | Yay for bugs, then. |
| 14:19:45 | kugel | and it calls skin_unload_all(), guess what that does |
| 14:20:04 | [Saint] | well it certainly doesn't clear the .sbs...I know that much :) |
| 14:20:10 | [Saint] | perhaps it _should_. |
| 14:20:14 | [Saint] | ...it doesn't, though. |
| 14:20:21 | kugel | that's at least the intention of the code |
| 14:21:18 | | Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:21:28 | [Saint] | Why does it need to dump the font? We know *exactly* what needs to be displayed, couldn't it just keen N many glyphs in the buffer? |
| 14:21:33 | [Saint] | Or, all of them, for that matter? |
| 14:21:44 | [Saint] | I don't understand why it would need to access the disc. |
| 14:22:13 | kugel | you can't determine if the glyhps are in cache |
| 14:22:19 | [Saint] | Aha. |
| 14:22:24 | pamaury | yeah the number of active devs has decreased recently, mostly because we have no new devs. I guess people just stopped using mp3 players |
| 14:22:36 | kugel | the skin can display arbitrary strings, you cannot know if the glyphs needed for that will be accessible |
| 14:22:38 | [Saint] | git hurt us a lot, too. |
| 14:22:39 | | Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) |
| 14:22:43 | [Saint] | which is *fucking* sad. |
| 14:22:47 | [Saint] | ...pardon my French. |
| 14:23:03 | kugel | git has nothing to do with it |
| 14:23:19 | [Saint] | I argue otherwise. |
| 14:23:39 | [Saint] | Several very active commiters fell right off the map, as soon as we switched. |
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| 14:24:12 | pamaury | hum, who did ? |
| 14:24:12 | kugel | lebellium: I loaded samsung like onto my fuzev2 |
| 14:24:30 | [Saint] | kugel: skins in general can, but the USB screen can't. We know exactly what will be displayed there. |
| 14:24:33 | kugel | there is some full screen image that overlays the menu |
| 14:25:01 | kugel | [Saint]: if the sbs is visible during the usb screen it it can display what it wants |
| 14:25:19 | [Saint] | and if it is supposed to disallow the .sbs, it makes it even easier to predict what is required. |
| 14:25:26 | [Saint] | heh, timing. |
| 14:26:32 | lebellium | kugel: http://imageshack.us/a/img826/2456/qggh.jpg and http://imageshack.us/a/img542/9601/blj6.jpg. That's how it connects randomly |
| 14:27:02 | [Saint] | you can clearly see userfont there. |
| 14:27:12 | kugel | yes, I can see that on my fuzev2 as well |
| 14:27:16 | [Saint] | and (duh...no need to say this) the .sbs |
| 14:27:26 | [Saint] | So, something is awry. |
| 14:27:36 | [Saint] | I had no idea it was supposed to dump userfont. |
| 14:29:09 | kugel | lebellium: what's this full screen image is flashing over the menu? |
| 14:29:34 | lebellium | ? |
| 14:29:40 | [Saint] | smells like improperly layered viewports fighting with screen updates. |
| 14:30:29 | copper | isn't it just the display's low refresh rate? |
| 14:30:56 | copper | like when you photograph a 60Hz CRT display |
| 14:31:04 | lebellium | The main difference between my themes and almost any other is that I use %?mp<%VI(Z)|%VI(X)> and a "mini-player" |
| 14:31:48 | kugel | my fuzev2 has frozen upon screendump :\ |
| 14:32:00 | [Saint] | copper: kugel is talking about on-device, not the visible tearing in the images supplied. |
| 14:32:53 | kugel | lebellium: is the fuzev2 version out-of-date or something? |
| 14:33:06 | lebellium | no, it works perfectly but look at the description |
| 14:33:10 | lebellium | you need a recent build |
| 14:33:14 | lebellium | due to the high amount of fonts loaded |
| 14:33:21 | lebellium | gavaerts changed the limit for me |
| 14:33:22 | lebellium | :D |
| 14:33:24 | lebellium | gevaerts* |
| 14:33:28 | kugel | oh a reboot helped against the flashing |
| 14:33:45 | [Saint] | Odd. |
| 14:34:22 | [Saint] | lebellium: ...how many did you need? 0_o |
| 14:35:00 | lebellium | [Saint]: it's because of the iRiver remote! H320 and Fuze share the same themes |
| 14:35:12 | kugel | well, I cannot reproduce the connect-failure or panic on disconnect on this device |
| 14:35:34 | [Saint] | if you're just using it to display numerics and the occasional symbol, it may have a much smaller footprint if you used bitmaps. |
| 14:36:17 | | Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:36:20 | [Saint] | by "how many did you need" I meant "how many fonts, per theme, do you require in the worst case?" |
| 14:36:21 | lebellium | well I don't remember exactly but feel free to look at my code and see how crazy it is :D |
| 14:37:06 | [Saint] | I remember doing an audit of your theme(s) many, many moons ago. But a lot has changed since then. |
| 14:37:17 | [Saint] | And I would wager it has been re-written a few times since. |
| 14:38:00 | lebellium | I guess I have about 10 fonts loaded for the Fuze theme |
| 14:38:19 | copper | yowza |
| 14:38:23 | [Saint] | That's...a....lot. |
| 14:38:51 | | Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) |
| 14:39:14 | kugel | two fonts are loaded |
| 14:39:15 | lebellium | It's like 2 themes |
| 14:39:27 | lebellium | Remote theme = CLip Zip them |
| 14:39:28 | lebellium | e |
| 14:39:33 | lebellium | + the main theme |
| 14:39:41 | lebellium | Clip+ * |
| 14:40:05 | [Saint] | So...10 fonts per screen, or, in total? |
| 14:40:11 | lebellium | in total! |
| 14:40:13 | lebellium | not per screen |
| 14:40:15 | [Saint] | the latter makes it a lot easier to imagine. |
| 14:40:43 | * | kugel still counts 2 |
| 14:40:50 | lebellium | kugel: heh? |
| 14:41:03 | [Saint] | the worst case look to be the .fms, which is using 3, unless I'm mistaken. That's not so bad. |
| 14:41:24 | lebellium | FMS uses big %Fl(8,34 Ubuntu [Bold].fnt) |
| 14:41:26 | lebellium | that doesn't help |
| 14:41:28 | [Saint] | are you limiting the glyphs loaded? |
| 14:41:32 | kugel | 4 after entering the fms |
| 14:41:41 | [Saint] | Ah, I missed one. |
| 14:42:44 | lebellium | But indeed USB connection works better with my theme for fuze than Clip Zip. So I don't think it's related to all fonts loaded |
| 14:43:36 | [Saint] | are you using the 'glyphs' tuple for the %Fl command? |
| 14:43:45 | kugel | seems like I need a clipzip to reproduce it |
| 14:43:54 | lebellium | I don't know what it is [Saint] |
| 14:43:54 | [Saint] | "%Fl(ident,filename,glyphs)" |
| 14:44:45 | [Saint] | That prevents the theme from trying to load *every* glyph the font has. It keeps only N amount of glyphs cached. |
| 14:45:14 | * | lebellium googling "glyph" |
| 14:45:15 | kugel | every glyph is never loaded |
| 14:45:24 | copper | glyph = character |
| 14:45:26 | copper | sign |
| 14:45:30 | kugel | by defaults it's capped to whatever fits into 10k or so |
| 14:45:38 | [Saint] | So, if you were only displaying the chars Aa-Zz, you could safely limit it to 56 glyphs |
| 14:45:48 | [Saint] | its 200 or so by default, iirc. |
| 14:45:58 | [Saint] | or some size limit. |
| 14:46:02 | [Saint] | whatever comes first. |
| 14:47:28 | | Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 14:47:33 | [Saint] | With large fonts, this can reduce the memory usage by a reasonably amount. Not terribly important for some targets, crucial for others. |
| 14:48:00 | lebellium | I'll have a look when I have some time |
| 14:48:45 | [Saint] | If you know, for example, that you will only be displaying the numbers 0-9 and the symbols : and %, you could cap it at 12. |
| 14:49:14 | copper | my Fuze+ skin uses 309KiB |
| 14:49:16 | lebellium | for battery percentage I could do that indeed |
| 14:49:39 | [Saint] | Otherwise it may waste memory better used for the audio buffer caching glyphs that will never be displayed. |
| 14:50:39 | [Saint] | On the Classic, ...meh. On some targets, with 2MB of RAM total, every bit counts. :) |
| 14:51:10 | [Saint] | (there's other targets to add to the "don't care about RAM" list...but, ...anyway) |
| 14:51:40 | copper | the Fuze+ seems to have about 60MB like the Classic |
| 14:53:15 | copper | not sure if those are MiBs |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:01:21 | pamaury | the fuze+ has 64MiB of ram |
| 15:02:34 | gevaerts | kugel: pong |
| 15:09:02 | kugel | gevaerts: there seems to be some usb problems on the clipzip |
| 15:09:38 | kugel | it struggles with connecting, and it appears that usb_storage_disconnect() isn't always called |
| 15:10:54 | kugel | how can it happen that this isnt always called (but usb_storage_init_connection() is) |
| 15:10:57 | kugel | ? |
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| 15:15:21 | gevaerts | kugel: the only way I see is that usb_thread() never sees USB_EXTRACTED |
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| 15:16:33 | kugel | or it sees it but usb_state != USB_INSERTED |
| 15:17:20 | | Part dan991199 |
| 15:18:18 | gevaerts | Hm, yes |
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| 15:18:58 | gevaerts | I don't see how that could happen though |
| 15:19:02 | kugel | but that doesnt look possible |
| 15:20:08 | kugel | lebellium reported that even when usb storage connects fine then he can see the panicf() I inserted into playlist.c (it triggeres when it cannot get the audio buffer which is last-owned by usb_storage.c) |
| 15:21:18 | pamaury | hum, there is something fishy on the Zen X-Fi2: it has the same Mobile DDR chip as the Zen X-Fi3 but it fails when the ram is run at 133MHz whereas it works on the Zen X-Fi3 :-/ |
| 15:21:38 | kugel | lebellium: can you apply that patch as well (on top of the others): http://pastie.org/8118125 ? |
| 15:22:19 | kugel | pamaury: different modules |
| 15:22:19 | kugel | ? |
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| 15:27:20 | pamaury | no :( same parameters, everything is the same |
| 15:27:42 | kugel | gevaerts: if it doesnt see USB_EXTRACTED how can the usb screen see SYS_USB_DISCONNECTED? |
| 15:28:51 | gevaerts | Hmmm |
| 15:29:40 | kugel | because that's what happens, the usb screen thinks disconnected and calls playlist_resume() where the panic occurs |
| 15:30:17 | gevaerts | Did you push those changes not to call audio_get_buffer() yet? |
| 15:30:40 | kugel | not to master, but lebellium runs that (from gerrit) |
| 15:31:23 | kugel | with that a call to usb_storage_disconnect() is required to release the audio buffer |
| 15:32:10 | gevaerts | Is usb_core_exit() called? |
| 15:32:23 | kugel | I can't tell from here :p |
| 15:32:42 | * | gevaerts asks lebellium instead :) |
| 15:33:02 | * | kugel doesnt think he can easily tell that either |
| 15:34:49 | lebellium | kugel: I can apply that patch but later this afternoon or evening. I need a break for now USB makes me crazy :) |
| 15:35:08 | gevaerts | The thing is, the old usb_storage_disconnect() doesn't do anything, so we don't really reliably know that it ever got called properly |
| 15:35:20 | kugel | yeah |
| 15:35:49 | kugel | however it seems to be the case on my fuzev2 |
| 15:36:20 | gevaerts | ok |
| 15:36:35 | gevaerts | So it's likely not to be an obvious bug in usb_core.c |
| 15:36:39 | lebellium | BTW kugel: I also have issues with USB connection and my theme on Fuzev1 (tried today) while I thought USB was more reliable on V1 than V2 |
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| 15:46:26 | kugel | gevaerts: the implementation of usb_enable() is the same |
| 15:49:36 | kugel | [Saint]: have you tried lebellium's theme on one of your nano2g? |
| 15:51:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 17:51:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:51:46 | pamaury | To all fuze+ users: could you try the latest build and tell me if you still have the freeze after usb bootloader mode ? |
| 17:52:18 | | Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) |
| 17:53:20 | copper | pamaury: what's that? Plugging it while powered off, then powering it on? |
| 17:54:06 | pamaury | yes, power off, plug usb then unplug, it should boot and most probably freeze. I just committed a potential fix |
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| 17:59:21 | copper | it turns on while plugged, displays "bootloader usb mode" |
| 17:59:30 | copper | when plugged in* |
| 17:59:57 | copper | it stays on that screen while plugged in |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:22 | pamaury | yeah, then unplug it |
| 18:00:32 | copper | now it boots |
| 18:00:38 | copper | and seems to be working fine |
| 18:00:56 | pamaury | now redo the same except that you should only let it plugged a few seconds |
| 18:01:16 | copper | turn off, plug in, wait 3 seconds, unplug? |
| 18:01:48 | pamaury | yes |
| 18:02:11 | copper | works fine |
| 18:02:51 | pamaury | are you using the latest build ? |
| 18:02:53 | copper | yes |
| 18:03:00 | pamaury | good |
| 18:03:02 | copper | built myself |
| 18:03:15 | pamaury | now can you retry with an older one ? |
| 18:03:16 | copper | I ran git pull −−rebase |
| 18:03:22 | copper | ok |
| 18:03:35 | pamaury | say 10 commits before head |
| 18:04:44 | copper | 130605 good enough? |
| 18:05:38 | pamaury | yes |
| 18:06:00 | copper | yup, freezes on the boot screen with the logo at the top and the build version at the bottom |
| 18:06:33 | pamaury | good, so that's indeed a fix, thanks |
| 18:06:38 | copper | np |
| 18:07:42 | pamaury | this has a been a long running issue, it's good that I finally fixed it |
| 18:08:44 | copper | good job :) |
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| 18:29:23 | | Quit liar (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
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| 18:44:45 | lorenzo92 | I'm rewriting the packer for YP-R0 (R1 too) to be fully open (and much more fast too ^^) |
| 18:45:10 | lorenzo92 | once I figure out how to mess with a cramfs on windows, i will be able to insert the player into rbutil :) |
| 18:47:02 | pamaury | why do you need to mess with cramfs ? |
| 18:47:50 | | Quit Scall (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 18:48:37 | lorenzo92 | because I need to modify some data in the cramfs of the player in order to boot rockbox |
| 18:49:15 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
| 18:49:25 | lorenzo92 | i found an interesting option for cramfs tools but I don't understand what's its porpouse, it correctly appends a previous image but i don't know if it's intended to *not* doing any merge... |
| 18:49:33 | lorenzo92 | in fact, it doesn't |
| 18:50:43 | pamaury | I guess a cramfs image is compressed ? |
| 18:51:34 | lorenzo92 | hum yeah |
| 18:51:37 | lorenzo92 | it should be |
| 18:52:12 | lorenzo92 | the problem are permissions on windows. alternatively, if possible, a small ram disk would be the solution ^^ |
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| 19:41:20 | joshumax | hello |
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| 19:47:19 | bluebrother | hello |
| 19:48:43 | joshumax | oh hi |
| 19:49:09 | joshumax | Just a quick question, does anyone remember the old "zvue" media player? |
| 19:50:00 | lebellium | kugel: I just tried your latest patch. I can't reproduce the Panic resume_playlist issue when disconnecting, but I don't know if it's just a coincidence or if it fixed something :) |
| 19:50:58 | lebellium | But now I have more often "*Panic* stkov usb" when connecting. Maybe just a coincidence too |
| 19:51:35 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:52:21 | kugel | hm interesting |
| 19:54:16 | kugel | I guess that also explains the undefined instruction error you saw earlier |
| 19:56:11 | kugel | lebellium: please add this patch http://pastie.org/8118689 and see if it does anything |
| 19:57:14 | lebellium | ok. I'll do it in about 40min, brb |
| 19:57:54 | kugel | stkov is evil |
| 20:00 |
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| 21:05:04 | lebellium | kugel: I just got a "undefined instruction" while connecting but no more stkov usb so far |
| 21:09:34 | | Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@shared02.balt01.cd.2g2u.net) |
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| 21:47:21 | kugel | lebellium: really strange |
| 21:47:31 | kugel | lebellium: does the panic still happen on disconnect? |
| 21:48:36 | lebellium | I haven't seen it for some time now. |
| 21:49:10 | kugel | does it still freeze? |
| 21:50:02 | kugel | on disconnect |
| 21:50:10 | lebellium | sometimes but becoming rare. Disconnecting works better overall. But connecting is still quite unstable |
| 21:50:44 | kugel | but it's not fixed yet? |
| 21:50:56 | kugel | i.e. the freeze is still there in some cases |
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| 21:51:37 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:52:16 | lebellium | After applying your last 2 patches, I guess it still froze 2/xx times when disconnecting. I don't know if I can say it's fixed yet. But looks better to me overall |
| 21:52:56 | kugel | meh |
| 21:53:22 | lebellium | and IIRC the 2 times it still froze, it did not mount well before |
| 21:54:00 | kugel | at least the panic is gone |
| 21:54:11 | lebellium | seems to be the case indeed |
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| 22:22:58 | kugel | hm, who's the clipzip maintainer (if any)? |
| 22:23:19 | lebellium | bertrik |
| 22:23:25 | lebellium | and/or funman |
| 22:24:21 | kugel | funman: ping |
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| 23:31:06 | musiklover | hi |
| 23:34:28 | musiklover | i would like to get a music-player that can connected via USB to the pc where is acts as a connected mass storage device, that i can mounted it's FS, copy/delete music. When playingin music i would like to browse on a folder baysis. The player should ignore id-tags. is there such a player (like meizu m6 was one) that can run rockbox and does rockbox offer the mentioned features? |
| 23:39:43 | | Quit Zarggg (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:44:42 | musiklover | are there chances that craetive zen player will get rockbox? |
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| 23:51:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:53:26 | lorenzo92 | pamaury: the xor key is a little different with respect to the z5 one, now I understand why it wasn't working ^^ |
| 23:57:02 | | Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:57:58 | musiklover | Is there a rockbox compatible device in a formfactor like this: http://skattertech.com/2007/12/creative-introduces-32gb-zen/ or this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meizu_M6_miniPlayer |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).