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#rockbox log for 2013-07-21

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06:28:20dunpeal_copper: when you told me to analyze my file, what exactly am I looking for?
06:28:56dunpeal_copper: (my m4a file that plays in Ubuntu's Totem but doesn't in Rockbox)
06:38:06saratogai'd check what codec was used
06:39:00saratogawe don't support some of the weirder AAC flavors for instance, and very long or very oddly formatted M4A streams can require more memory to decode that some mp3 players have
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06:55:26dunpealsaratoga: Why would a very long m4a be a problem? I've never noticed any issues with very long mp3's, e.g. audiobooks
06:56:00saratogaat some point you run out of memory trying to parse the table of contents in the MP4 file
06:58:58dunpealsaratoga: ah, I see. and that never happens in mp3, since they don't even support a TOC
06:59:05dunpealWorse is better yet again!
07:03:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:26:10saratoganewer MPEG formats do suffer badly from design by committee overengineering
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08:26:18dunpealIs there a recommended fix? I have a whole set of m4a that rockbox doesn't play.
08:33:36saratogawhat codec?
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08:34:41dunpealsaratoga: how do I detect?
08:35:00saratogamost software that can play m4a files will tell you the codec
08:35:04saratogai use foobar2000
08:35:35dunpealsaratoga: Audiobook Builder 1.5.3 (, QuickTime 7.7.1
08:36:00[Saint]what the...
08:36:34dunpealthat's the "encoder" line for mplayer
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08:36:47dunpealSelected audio codec: [ffaac] afm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg AAC (MPEG-2/MPEG-4 Audio))
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08:37:03saratogaso some kind of AAC
08:37:20saratogawhat are you running rockbox on?
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08:37:26dunpealSansa Clip Zip
08:37:59saratogai think that should play any type of AAC quicktime can make
08:38:17saratogaprobably some issue with how the m4a file is built
08:38:45dunpealIs there something I can do? I have avconv installed.
08:38:48saratogaif you unpack the AAC stream and repack it back into MP4 I bet it works
08:39:07dunpealUsing avconv (I'm on Ubuntu here)
08:39:33saratogai don't know what that is, but if you're familiar with it and you think it works go for it
08:39:43dunpealthanks, let me try.
08:40:32saratogai think i've used mp4box for this, but i can't really remember
08:40:40saratogabut therees a ton of software for working with mp4 files
08:43:52dunpealno go
08:44:11dunpealsaratoga: extracted AAC stream says "(ERR)"
08:44:15dunpealon the playlist
08:44:41saratogawhat did you do?
08:45:27dunpealavconv -i foo.m4b -acodec copy output.m4b
08:45:59saratogai thought you said these were m4a files?
08:46:37dunpealsorry, m4b
08:46:52dunpeal(didn't realize there was any difference)
08:47:16saratogai think theres more crap in the mp4 file if its m4b
08:47:27dunpealshould have been extracted
08:47:51dunpealMplayer does play it, but emits these warnings incessantly: Too many audio packets in the buffer: (4096 in 1027289 bytes).
08:48:02saratogaoh is acconv just ffmpeg?
08:48:26dunpealdon't think so, it's part of libav
08:49:37saratogatry "avconv -i foo.m4b -acodec copy -movflags faststart output.m4a"
08:49:48saratogalibav and ffmpeg are forks of the same project
08:50:54dunpealsigh, "Option movflags not found."
08:52:06saratogaits in the libav manual so i don't know what to tell you
08:52:08saratogaanyway i'm going to bed
08:52:12dunpealguess it's too old
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08:52:16dunpealsaratoga: thanks anyway :)
08:52:20dunpealyou've been very helpful
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11:57:24bertrikwow, nice work jhMikeS, 308 insertions(+), 2020 deletions(-)
12:08:59bertrikhm, I realise that I haven't done any significant work on rockbox in the past year or so
12:19:51copperrelax, there's no performance review at the end of the year! ;)
12:21:07jlbiasiniyeah, it's no use: pamaury would win anyway...
12:21:37jlbiasiniet copper, do you want to test something coo?
12:22:01jlbiasinifor the fuze+...
12:22:22[Saint]bertrik: I assure you, there's lots of people thinking the same thing...
12:22:48[Saint]We went ahead and got...y'know, lives and stuff. We should be ashamed :)
12:23:02copperjlbiasini: whassup?
12:25:07jlbiasiniI have a series of patch on git with touchpad going to sleep while keylock, and also volume keys available while keys locked. Also I change the power state of the touchpad in normal use to a more economic one and it seems perfectly usuable
12:25:53copper"going to sleep"?
12:25:58copperhow do you unlock?
12:26:03jlbiasiniit might be because this power state is not implemented and that it actually default to normal but the rmi interface does report being inthis state
12:26:12jlbiasiniwith power
12:26:16jlbiasinias usual
12:26:35copperoh right
12:26:52copperI think my brain went into power saving mode
12:27:39jlbiasiniAt first I just setted the sensitivity to -127 to avoid lcd refresh but then I realise the touchpad has some ppower sleep option... So now I'm using that
12:27:39copperI don't want volume keys to work while locked though
12:27:54*[Saint] sincerely doubts "volume while keys clocked" will be committed.
12:28:10[Saint]keylock == keys locked.
12:28:20[Saint]anything else is highly non-obvious.
12:28:25copper[Saint]: at what frequency are they CLOCKED though? ;)
12:28:27jlbiasiniyes that's why I still need to implement a setting screen for that because it a very often asked
12:28:41[Saint]even still.
12:28:45[Saint]I'd fight it.
12:29:02[Saint]We don;t need any more settings, nor do we need keylocks doing non-obvious things.
12:29:10jlbiasini[Saint]: I won't goes in this discution again, touchpad is not a key
12:29:12bertrikI can see the point of excepting volume control from key lock
12:29:48[Saint]touchpad isn't a...pfffft.
12:30:39copperdisabling the touchpad on softlock would be nice though
12:30:45jlbiasini+ the idea is to have it only the device that have touch device and to have it unactivate by default
12:31:40[Saint]I still think its ugly.
12:32:04[Saint]pure touchscreen devices are a slight exception in the Rockbox world, but, this isn;t one.
12:32:34[Saint]and even the pure touchscren devices don;t do this by default, nor offer a setting.
12:33:38[Saint]Open this door, and very soon you'll get "Can we seek as well"?
12:33:45[Saint]then "can we skip too?"
12:34:48[Saint]If you want to be able to adjust the volume easily, putting softlock on in the first place seems broken.
12:34:56[Saint]and it takes a second to disable it.
12:35:54jlbiasini[Saint]: the point remains that you cannot handle touch device the way you handle hard keys because they are not the same.
12:36:17[Saint]sure you can.
12:36:33[Saint]there's no reason it needs to be different.
12:36:47[Saint]with regard to keylock, that is.
12:37:07jlbiasinibut it's not mine. I have no opinion. I don't care if I want it I can code it for myself and basta.
12:37:28[Saint]I never said you couldn't.
12:37:30copperjlbiasini: you sound french :)
12:37:56[Saint]What I *did* say was: "try get this in, and I'll be vocal about it"
12:38:04[Saint]that is NOT the same as "don't do it".
12:38:09gevaertsIndeed not
12:38:39jlbiasinifor example if you don't desactivate touchpad on keys lock you end up having all the time the lcd refreshing killing the battery
12:38:39gevaertsYou'll just need to convince enough people :)
12:38:56copperjlbiasini: again, I'm interested in disabling the touchpad during softlock. About the touchpad power state, does lowering it _really_ make a difference, with regards to battery life?
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12:39:09[Saint]I never said it wasn't sane to deactivate it.
12:39:21[Saint]just that its insane to deactive only *some* function :)
12:39:30jlbiasini[Saint]: I didn't meas bad I just meant that if I talking about it it's because alot of people are asking for it on the fuze+
12:39:47[Saint]Users ask for a lot of silly things.
12:39:54[Saint]We needn't oblige them :)
12:40:13gevaertsThere's been some consensus about this a few years ago IIRC
12:40:17jlbiasinicopper: that were you come in to test!!!
12:40:19gevaertsLook for the D2
12:41:14copperjlbiasini: I'm already getting 32 hours of playback with the Fuze+
12:41:47copperI just don't think it's needed, and I'd be worried of unforeseen consequences
12:42:10*[Saint] worries about "can I have N too"
12:42:15jlbiasinipamaury and I hited 39 hours
12:42:34[Saint]...and you're worried about battery life? cute. :)
12:42:43jlbiasiniyes I know we have to see with pamaury also
12:42:50ZincAlloythat's plenty. I should definitely get one..
12:43:43jlbiasini[Saint]: it's critical to improve it because we are missing only 8 hours to double the OF battery time :D
12:44:02*gevaerts isn't against allowing volume changes while on hold on targets that happen to support that, *if* there is a setting
12:44:03ZincAlloythat would be quite impressive :D
12:45:00jlbiasinigevearts: I plan to have a setting
12:45:20[Saint]If LCD refresh is the issue...then, can't you just sleep the LCD?
12:45:39[Saint]that would yeild far greater benefit.
12:46:03copper[Saint]: the difference between 1) the power and volume keys, and 2) the touchpad, is that the touchpad gets accidentally activated a lot easier
12:46:37[Saint]copper: I realize this, but there's no reason to treat them any differently.
12:46:43jlbiasinithe idea is also to still be able to consult the screen while being locked
12:46:44[Saint]locked is locked.
12:46:57gevaertsSee also and before (also look at previous months!)
12:46:59[Saint]I very much dislike "keys locked, but...not this one"
12:47:05copperyeah, I'd disable everything except the power key
12:47:22gevaertsThread starts at
12:47:54[Saint]jlbiasini: shouldn't that be up to the user?
12:48:03*copper curses SanDisk for not including an actual lock switch, like everyone else
12:48:12[Saint]If the screen can sleep, would it not have the screen timeout setting for hold?
12:48:33[Saint]softlock and hold are treated virtually identically, are they not?
12:48:55[Saint]if they're not, they should be.
12:49:09*jlbiasini realize he has no idea of the difference between softlock and keylock... :(
12:50:21bertrikI understand softlock to be the equivalent of keylock, on devices that don't have a physical lock key
12:50:50jlbiasini[Saint]: the idea I see it it should only be available on target that have touchscreen and for which it present an obvious benefit. Then on the top of it there should be a setting
12:50:57[Saint]that's as I thought too.
12:51:18[Saint]meaning that devices that can dim the backlict and/or sleep the lcd should present these settings and use them for softlock too.
12:51:27[Saint]if they don't, this should be corrected.
12:51:28jlbiasiniok then all I was saying was about sorftlock sorry for the confusion...
12:52:23[Saint]I'm curious what "the obvious benefit" is...
12:52:39[Saint]All I see is counterintuitive behaviour for a keylock.
12:54:33jlbiasiniwell if a device touch sub device isn't that sensitive to trigger an lcd refresh all the time (for example I thing that some touchdevice react only to hand and so on)
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12:55:36[Saint]the lcd refresh should only be a problem for users that have chosen to leave the screen awake during lock.
12:56:01[Saint]I'll say again that if softlock targets don't present this setting when the screen can be slept, this is an issue.
12:56:51[Saint]targets that can sleep the screen, and can lock, should present settings that dictate how the screen behaves in this state.
12:57:03copper[Saint]: not exactly: it's currently a problem because the touchpad gets activated accidentally, and wakes up the display
12:58:34[Saint]Aha. I seem to have misunderstood.
12:59:30[Saint]so, back to my previous position, then: softlock for touchpad == good, allowing volume change in this state == bad. :)
13:01:23[Saint]combined with "softlock should sleep the screen (based on user settings)".
13:02:09copperI think both the touchpad and display should be completely disabled during softlock
13:02:19copperif you want to turn on the screen to see what's playing, press Power
13:02:26copperthen press Power again to lock
13:03:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:03:43jlbiasinithose are 2 different aspect actually 1) everything or just touchpad 2) kill touchpad while locked
13:05:23jlbiasinicopper: I you want to the change in touchpad power setting it's g#525
13:05:26fs-bluebotGerrit review #525 at : [Fuze+][Touchpad] Improve touchpad power managment by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/25/525/4)
13:06:33jlbiasini*if you
13:08:12jlbiasinicopper: the only problem with this methods is that the device doesn't report anymore to be locked because the screen won't react anymore
13:08:57copperwith that patch, or what I said?
13:09:13jlbiasiniwhat you said
13:09:26copperthe DAP isn't supposed to react at all, when locked
13:09:38copperI don't _want_ it to react
13:09:46copperit's the whole point of locking the device
13:11:02jlbiasiniwell considering all the different point of view even amoung developpers I would say that a softlock or keylock setting menu were we can define the way it should be locked wouldn't hurt...
13:12:10jlbiasinithose are all little difference and really easy to implement actually. I was surprise myself to be able to code something clean about it
13:13:22copperI don't see how one could justify the device reacting to anything while _locked_
13:13:35copperif it reacts, the locking mechanism isn't doing its job
13:14:07copperhaving the device react intentionally, is a matter of pressing one button: the power button
13:14:16[Saint]There's already a setting for this wrt screen visibility isn't there?
13:14:35[Saint]something along the lines of chosing whether or not a keypress wakes the backlight or screen?
13:14:41copper[Saint]: there's no setting regarding locking on the Fuze+
13:14:50[Saint]no, I mean in general.
13:15:01[Saint]targets that have "real" hold.
13:15:43jlbiasinicopper: if you add g#523 and g#526 to the previous patch you will have touchpad sleeping while softlock
13:15:45fs-bluebotGerrit review #523 at : Disable touch device on keyhold for targets that handle it by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/23/523/3)
13:15:47fs-bluebotGerrit review #526 at : [Fuze+] activate the automatic touchpad disable on keylock by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/26/526/1)
13:15:55copper[Saint]: the Classic has "Backlight on Hold"
13:16:07[Saint]copper: right, that's it, thanks.
13:16:12jlbiasinisaint: yes but it's in the screen section
13:16:18[Saint]THAT is what should be happening here. :)
13:16:49[Saint]hold and softlock shouldn't be treated much differntly at all.
13:17:02[Saint]if they are *that* is the problem.
13:17:07copperjlbiasini: on the Classic, the touchwheel doesn't do anything while on hold (lock), as it should
13:17:13[Saint]We already have settings in place that could manage this.
13:17:22[Saint]...just, not for this case, due to oversight.
13:17:40[Saint](oversight isnt really the owrd for it, this target didn't exist at that time :))
13:18:04jlbiasiniwhat is the classic?
13:18:08copperiPod Classic
13:18:09ZincAlloyshort sightedness?
13:18:20copperand the screen turns on when unlocking, as it should
13:20:07jlbiasinithat's strange because I didn't saw anything in the action.c code about this which means it's in the driver itself?
13:20:16gevaertsI have to admit that I'm *totally* lost in this discussion. My understanding is that a "touch device" is an *input* device. How is it related to LCD refresh at all? And what's the point of g#526? Surely locking keys implies not listening to touch events *naturally*?
13:20:22fs-bluebotGerrit review #526 at : [Fuze+] activate the automatic touchpad disable on keylock by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/26/526/1)
13:21:14coppergevaerts: currently, softlock disables the touchpad functionalities, but doesn't disable it (it still reacts and turns on the display)
13:21:31[Saint]gevaerts: I'll admit, I got lost, too. I _think_ I'm on track again, though...
13:21:31gevaertsOh. *why*?
13:21:33copperit turns on the display and a pop-up that says "locked"
13:21:36[Saint]I _think_.
13:22:16copperso what you get, is the Fuze+ display that often turns on and off while in your pocket
13:22:21jlbiasinigevaerts: it do listen to report that keys are locked which is only in my opinion ok as long as those keys doens't get fire all the time
13:24:03coppergonna try #523 and #526
13:24:24[Saint]If I paraphrase the whole last hour I so, I get this: "I made some patches that do broken stuff to fix an issue of a device doing broken stuff that should probably not be that way"
13:24:27gevaertsIs there any point in ever handling this differently for different touch devices?
13:24:50gevaertsBecause if not, this should *not* be inside "#ifdef HAS_TOUCH_DEVICE_DISABLED_ON_KEYLOCK"
13:24:51copperfails to build
13:25:26gevaertsSo while I can see there is some debate about what a touchpad should do while locked, I do *not* like HAS_TOUCH_DEVICE_DISABLED_ON_KEYLOCK at all
13:25:34jlbiasinicopper: you cannot pick only those 2 you need the 3 of them
13:26:48*gevaerts thinks #define proliferation is much worse than settings growth
13:27:16bertrikboth are bad IMO
13:27:24jlbiasinigevaerts: the problem is that it rely on drivers defining their own touchdev_disable and touchdev_wake_up
13:28:14jlbiasinicopper: this is strange it compiles on my computer
13:28:17bertrikand I don't want a setting for everything that we couldn't agree on
13:29:18jlbiasiniI thought drivers should define their own way to disable a touchdevice
13:29:52[Saint]Isn't the glaringly obvious question "why the flying f**k does this target handle the touchpad so differently"?
13:29:56jlbiasinidepending on how good ours driver for a touchdevice is it can be very different
13:30:08copperI ran configure again
13:30:15[Saint]I mean, we have other targets with touchpads, no? And hold/softlock (there shouldn;t be a distinction here??
13:30:19coppervanilla fuze+ from git doesn't compile either
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13:30:52copperbuild error with vanilla Fuze+:
13:31:02[Saint]why isn't the touchpad just disabled on softlock? What is the point of the splash to say its locked firing from the touchpad?
13:31:10copperjlbiasini: ok, that compiled
13:31:49HankJWGuys, can anyone help with this:,43285.0.html
13:31:49HankJWIm really in need of my ipod.
13:31:49jlbiasinicopper: woaw I was really starting to wonder what could it be...
13:31:49gevaertsjlbiasini: regardless of how this turns out, you should at least define touchdev_disable() and friends in button.h, not in any device-specific button-target.h that happens to need it
13:32:17copperseems like I can't just run "make clean && make" and hope it will always work
13:32:36jlbiasiniI just made those patch I have also to wait for pamaury review on it anyway
13:32:41bertrikHankJW: perhaps a short-circuit somewhere, from parts pressing onto each other?
13:32:47gevaertsHankJW: is the battery OK? If it's old and starting to expand, it could push too hard on some parts
13:32:55bertrikor perhaps a crack in the PCB that makes intermittent contact
13:33:38HankJWgevaerts, yeah the battery seems fine and its not that old
13:34:13HankJWWell, the odd thing is also that sometimes even when disassembled it doesnt start
13:34:18[Saint]the "solution" seems to be as simple as "stop the touchpad from firing the silly "I'm locked" splash...
13:34:24[Saint]stop me if I'm missing something.
13:34:48[Saint]No other target does this with their touchpad when keys are locked iirc.
13:35:37copperwhat's up with the volume
13:36:07jlbiasinislow huh? it's a bug that pamaury is working on... ;)
13:36:17gevaertsHankJW: possibly some cracks somewhere then, as bertrik suggested
13:36:46[Saint]another possibility is the rear case creating a bridge.
13:36:54[Saint]line it with insulation tape.
13:36:59HankJWthe pcb? Excuse my lack of knowledge, but whats a pcb
13:37:05copperjlbiasini: with your patches, the screen still turns on when touching the touchpad
13:37:15gevaertsHankJW: printed circuit board
13:37:19[Saint]"printed circuit board"
13:37:33jlbiasinicopper: oups still work to do then...
13:37:37*gevaerts beats [Saint] fair and square :)
13:37:50jlbiasiniwhich patch did you installed?
13:37:55HankJWwell, I disassembled it completely and all the parts seems fine
13:38:22gevaertsjlbiasini: just to keep bothering you, I'd say whether or not this splash shows up shouldn't depend on the target being able to switch off the touch device
13:39:08gevaertsThere are of course dependencies between the two, but power management and behaviour should be treated reasonably independently
13:39:46copper"%pv" on the Fuze+ currently does NOT display values in decibels
13:39:57[Saint]this is known.
13:40:22copperso that answers my previous question about whether I should upgrade or wait
13:40:23[Saint]divide by 10 and it should be right. ;)
13:40:24copper(I should wait)
13:41:13[Saint]or, apply g#519
13:41:15fs-bluebotGerrit review #519 at : Fix volume handling of steps in wps, list and radio by Amaury Pouly (changes/19/519/1)
13:41:25jlbiasinigevaerts: ha then I could actually use the patch I made to keeps volume key working. But it suppose to define all hard keys manually on all target
13:41:35gevaertsHankJW: very small cracks won't be easy to see, but can still have serious effects if the board is just *slightly* bent or pushed
13:41:50gevaertsIt could still be something else of course
13:41:52copper[Saint]: I don't suppose that patch would do anything about the volume keys being slow
13:42:38jlbiasinicopper: g#519 is about this problem...
13:42:40fs-bluebotGerrit review #519 at : Fix volume handling of steps in wps, list and radio by Amaury Pouly (changes/19/519/1)
13:42:53jlbiasinicopper: which patch did you used?
13:43:08copper523, 525 and 526
13:43:14HankJWwell, as the board was never bent or pushed I dont think thats the issue. In fact, I only disassemlbed it twice in the whole years I own the ipod. And when doing so, I was as careful as I can
13:43:53[Saint]even slight drops could cause this.
13:44:10[Saint]I'm willing to bet the damage happened at disassembly, though.
13:44:15[Saint]all signs point to this.
13:44:18[Saint]or, magic.
13:44:29[Saint]I'm not siding with magic or coincidence.
13:44:36 Quit fs-bluebot (Quit: timeout?)
13:44:48HankJWwell, the problems appeared maybe 2 months ago or so
13:45:07HankJWThe drive wasnt workin correctly
13:45:12HankJWso I bought a new hdd cable
13:45:17HankJWnow the drive works again
13:45:25HankJWI thought it was the only issue...
13:45:30bertrikdoes it get unusually hot?
13:45:41[Saint]that's new information.
13:45:53[Saint]the forum reads like :I took it apart, and this happened"
13:46:03HankJWmy mistake
13:46:03 Quit y4n (Quit: MOTHER EUROPA CALLING ME!)
13:46:22gevaertsMaybe also a bad cable somewhere? Those flat cables are easy to damage...
13:46:50[Saint]the ribons don't like being bent when they're old, no.
13:46:52gevaertsIf it's one of those, I'd bet on the one connecting the button assembly to the mainboard
13:47:53[Saint]copper: it won't, no, but something could be done about this.
13:48:23[Saint]iiuc, the problem is the volume (internally) is in .1db steps, so multiple steps get thrown away.
13:48:23copperShould. :->
13:48:35HankJWgevaerts: The one connecting the click wheel?
13:49:03copper1dB is more than enough
13:49:08copper.1dB is silly
13:49:33gevaertsHankJW: how do you try switching it on? Button presses, or connecting to usb?
13:49:38gevaerts(or both)
13:49:41HankJWbutton press
13:49:55HankJWwhen rockbox actually started
13:50:01HankJWall the buttosn work fine
13:50:23bertrik0.1 dB is about 2.3% volume difference :)
13:50:57gevaertsTry connecting USB. If it starts then (and stays on when you disconnect again), I'd say it's that ribbon. If it doesn't start then, it's unrelated to the buttons
13:51:27[Saint]the issue was likely mine for not realizing that the eq min step and the volume step were tied.
13:51:35[Saint]...and, any review or lack thereof.
13:52:00[Saint]so, yes, I likely broke/caused this.
13:52:20[Saint]but, I had help! :)
13:52:35HankJWgevaerts: I just connected to usb. The drive is spinning, but nothing happens, the screen shows a white apple, without backlight
13:52:57HankJWnow it says to connect to itunes to restore
13:53:20HankJWoh wait
13:53:28HankJWnow its in disk mode
13:53:56HankJWIll just leave it for a bit
13:54:00gevaertsWeirdness all round
13:54:03HankJWI have to go afk for some 10 min or so
13:54:06HankJWbe right back
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14:08:59HankJWI just disconnected the ipod from usb
14:09:13HankJWand it still says "do not disconnect" like it is still connected
14:09:52HankJWI just restarted it
14:10:01HankJWand it loaded rockbox like it should
14:10:06 Quit jlbiasini (Quit: jlbiasini)
14:12:11copper[Saint]: you break it, you buy it. WHERE'S MAH MON-NEY
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14:16:53HankJWgevaerts: well, rather odd, but it works again
14:16:56copper[Saint]: also, you wanted to give 0.1dB adjustments in the EQ? why?
14:17:09gevaertsLet's hope it keeps working...
14:17:25HankJWsame here
14:17:38HankJWend of next week Im going on vacation
14:17:41HankJWand I need to work it
14:17:49HankJWas there I dont have an internet connection
14:18:24HankJWnor the the tools or the possibilites to fix it
14:18:55HankJWI still dont know what is/was wrong with it... but now that it works again, i dont give a shit :D
14:19:02HankJWThanks a lot for helping!
14:19:38bertrikBroken stuff that suddenly works without knowing why, will likely break again
14:20:20HankJWwell, I know
14:20:34HankJWbut if its working for the next month Im satisfied
14:20:42coppermy iPod Classic survived a drop on the sidewalk
14:20:42HankJWafter that Ill have enough time to figure it out
14:20:59copperit has a tiny dent now :(
14:21:11copperand a tiny scratch on the display
14:23:34copperit's like a really hot chick with a scar on her face
14:23:38copperstill hot though
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14:24:37HankJWscars can be sex as well.
14:24:46HankJWor at least badass :D
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14:40:25jlbiasinicopper: are you sure you made this build correctly? I retested it, and it's working here...
14:40:41copperjlbiasini: I suspect that some of my settings interfere with your path
14:42:54jlbiasinino that shouldn't be the case. It is a early implementation there is no setting by now
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14:45:17[Saint]copper: iirc the argument for that was that some DACs can do .2dB increments, so .1db increments means no one gets short changed (or feels that way).
14:45:26copperI mean, maybe your code doesn't execute when some other settings are enabled / disabled
14:45:35[Saint].1dB works for both .2 and .5.
14:45:45copper[Saint]: what kind of golden ears idiots want 0.1 or 0.2dB adjustments?
14:47:34[Saint]no human could parse the difference I expect. but some people get very anal about levelling their equipment, you know this youself.
14:47:57coppercan it be set back to having 1dB adjustments?
14:48:03copper0.1dB would bug the hell out of me.
14:48:12[Saint]back to?
14:48:16[Saint]it never was that way.
14:48:30[Saint]its always been .5
14:48:36copperoh, right
14:48:40[Saint]except for the last year or so
14:48:49copperwth, 0.5dB not enough?
14:49:38[Saint]the only reason you notice this is because volume handling changed slightly.
14:50:27copperit's not that annoying actually
14:50:44coppernot with the touchwheel of the iPod
14:53:04copperit IS annoying with the touchpad of the Fuze+
14:53:20copperalso, how come it's enabled on my old build on the Fuze+, but without the volume bug?
14:53:41[Saint]"its enabled"?
14:53:50copper0.1dB increments on the EQ
14:54:00[Saint]see: volume handling changed slightly
14:54:28copperI thought your 0.1dB increment change on the EQ was causing the volume bug
14:54:38[Saint]it is, indirectly.
14:55:50coppernot that it's so bad actually, since I've set the EQ to my liking, made a backup of my config file containing the EQ settings, and I'm unlikely to change it again
14:56:28copperbut replacing 0.5dB increments with 0.1dB increments is catoring to audiophools, and I wasn't aware that that was a philosophy for Rockbox development
14:56:55copperusing an EQ is supposed to make an audible difference
14:57:07copper0.1dB changes are hardly audible, if at all
14:58:25[Saint]write a patch and submit it to gerrit stating your case.
14:58:56 Quit jlbiasini (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
14:59:46[Saint]Its the nice way of saying that nothing is likely to get done otherwise.
14:59:50copper1) I don't know C
14:59:56copper2) I don't know Rockbox internals
15:00:08[Saint]Neither did I, once.
15:00:18[Saint]That's the fun of learning! :)
15:00:21copper3) you're the one who changed a perfectly reasonable functionality for a dubious reason
15:00:35copper0.5dB was already overkill, IMO
15:00:42[Saint]that's nice.
15:00:45[Saint]write a patch and submit it to gerrit stating your case.
15:01:18copperdid anyone else comment on your commit?
15:01:40[Saint]Wasn't my commit.
15:01:48copperI'm confused now.
15:02:12copperwho did what?
15:02:25[Saint]I just put up a patch in 30s to match a user request. It was committed.
15:02:49[Saint]My patch, not my commit.
15:03:08copperand THAT kind of patch flies without questions, when other reasonable requests are heavily resisted??
15:03:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:03:43[Saint]"without questions"? seem confused.
15:04:24copperdid anyone oppose the path or the commit?
15:04:56 Quit FOAD (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
15:05:21[Saint]No. You can see that yourself.
15:05:21 Join FOAD [0] (~foad@unaffiliated/foad)
15:05:35copperwhich is what I meant
15:06:59[Saint]The TL;DR version is: If people that care about this care so much, they should be reviewing it before it is committed, which is why gerrit exists in the first place.
15:07:26copperugh, I can't monitor every single patch and commit
15:07:31copperI'm not even a rockbox dev
15:07:35gevaertsOf course you can
15:07:46gevaertsYou can choose not to, of course
15:08:00copperdid ANYONE think that was a sensible change?
15:08:10[Saint]the committer, perhaps?
15:08:16gevaertsBut subscribing to new gerrit tasks is easy, and there aren't that many that they're hard to keep up with
15:08:53[Saint]If no one thought it was a sensible change, it wouldn;t have been included.
15:09:12[Saint]this is supposed to be the purpose of gerrit existing. :)
15:09:33[Saint]those that didn;t had an equal amount of time to voice their opinions, or, not.
15:09:54gevaertsWhich gerrit task are we actually talking about?
15:10:29[Saint]the one that changes min eq step and min q to .1dB
15:10:36gevaertsYes, I know *that*
15:11:17[Saint] g#414
15:11:35[Saint]making me do work...lookin' stuff up...geez. :)
15:12:03[Saint]awww...bluebot's on holiday.
15:12:30gevaertsHmmm, that was a bit quick
15:12:32copperI would think that such change would require someone to post ABX logs proving the audibility of 0.1dB steps
15:12:58copperit makes using the graphical EQ a lot slower
15:13:15copperi.e. it improves nothing, and actually makes it less usable
15:13:42[Saint]there's supposed to be two different levels of step, but, that is apparently broken.
15:13:52[Saint]ie. there's min_step and fast_*_step
15:14:31gevaertsI'd say two and a half hours is *not* enough time for people to voice their opinion
15:15:11[Saint]Oh, I agree. But I don;t have control over the one person that does have an opinion pressing fire immediately.
15:15:38[Saint]It's true that both camps had an equal amount of time though. :)
15:15:51[Saint]Not my fault if you Euros sleep all day :P
15:15:53copperI don't think he thought it through
15:16:25[Saint]He thought it through somewhat.
15:16:34coppernot to mention that a 0.1dB change won't do a damn thing on targets that don't have that kind of resolution
15:16:40[Saint]He abandoned a similar task in favor of that one.
15:16:46gevaerts[Saint]: you did say "If people that care about this care so much, they should be reviewing it before it is committed". That's not *possible* if you only give people two hours...
15:17:21copperalso, does no-one's opinion count unless they back it up with a patch?
15:17:26gevaertsSo while you do not have that control, you at least found it convenient to ignore that short time
15:17:53[Saint]copper: no, certainly not. But the odds of anything *happening* increase dramatically.
15:17:59soapI'll voice my oft-disagreed with opinion that EQ settings are another place where I don't see the need for a GUI to set 0.1dB steps, but make 0.0000000001dB steps legal in the .cfg if some nut wishes to do so.
15:18:21gevaertscopper: if you feel strongly about this, please bring it up on the dev ml
15:18:30soap(or whatever the granularity allowed in the code is)
15:18:49copperI'm trying to figure out how to pull the change as a patch, and modify it to revert it
15:19:21[Saint]click "patch" then the link given.
15:19:30gevaertsgit show <id>|patch -R -p1
15:19:39[Saint]there's a download section with multiple tabs, click patch, it'll give a link./
15:20:10[Saint]this link, in fact: git fetch git:// refs/changes/07/407/1 && git format-patch -1 −−stdout FETCH_HEAD
15:20:53*[Saint] is having a words fail him isn;t what he wants, but, it'll do.
15:22:21[Saint]gevaerts: fwiw, I didn't find it convenient or inconvenient, I literally couldn't care any less about this :)
15:23:02[Saint]I did, however, think it was a lot longer review period than 2 hours.
15:23:26[Saint]I have no personal attachment to this change at all.
15:25:08copper[Saint]: got a patch, do I post it as a new entry?
15:26:14[Saint]that's a good question.
15:26:23[Saint]yes, probably.
15:26:49coppercan't I register on gerrit without google or yahoo?
15:27:02[Saint]any openid provider.
15:27:08 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: CGI:IRC)
15:27:10copperok, looking
15:27:18[Saint]you can even be your own openid provider iirc.
15:27:27gevaertsYou can, yes
15:29:26[Saint]this started it, iirc:,42765.0/wap2.html
15:34:40soapright. but how did the rather reasonable request and original patch evolve into the current one?
15:35:26[Saint]a "hey, it would be great if..." conversation with the OP here, I believe.
15:36:33gevaertsThere are a bit too many of those quick patches lately
15:37:20gevaertsBehaviour changes need to be discussed in some way that gives people time to respond
15:38:53copperthe guy even requested 0.05dB increments
15:38:55copperhe's nuts
15:39:42copperand btw, saratoga questioned the utility of that change
15:39:48copperbut no-one responded
15:40:52copperAFTER the commit, apparently
15:41:32copperweeks later
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15:41:46copperer no
15:41:57copperweeks after the patch, and if I understand correctly, a day after the commit
15:43:04copperok, I can post a patch on gerrit that simply reverts the change, but it doesn't include support for finer-grained values in the configuration file
15:43:37copperdoes everyone agree that I should post a new entry on gerrit with that patch?
15:43:48coppersome might consider incomplete
15:44:20gevaertsAlso start a discussion on the mailing list
15:44:50copperdoes that mean I have to subscribe to it?
15:45:22gevaertsI think so, if you don't want to depend on moderators. You don't have to receive email from it though
15:45:43copperwhat's the correct way of linking to the original change?
15:46:04copperor identifying it
15:46:13copperI see several different identifiers
15:46:45gevaertsI'd go for both the full gerrit url and the actual git commit hash
15:47:21copperhow do I find the commit hash?
15:47:57gevaertsgit log
15:49:40copperyou mean e4040d930fa18266e3c92722bbe62cd47280c5db ?
15:50:00[Saint]first 7 is enough to be unique
15:50:09gevaertsShortening to 7 or 8 is common
15:50:21copper[Saint]: the log says you're the author of the commit, but that's not "your commit"?
15:50:45*copper is confused again
15:50:56[Saint]author != committer
15:51:05gevaertscopper: [Saint] is confused, not important :)
15:51:14gevaerts[Saint]: it *is* your commit
15:51:21copperalso, so many different places to deal with
15:51:30coppergit, gerrit, forums, IRC, mailing lists
15:51:57[Saint]gevaerts: well...technically, I guess, with the way gerrit works.
15:52:05gevaertsNo, the way *git* works
15:52:06[Saint]Here's the simple way of putting it:
15:52:13[Saint]"I made it. I didn't commit it"
15:52:21[Saint]...even if gerrit does make it look that way :)
15:52:35gevaertsYou did commit it
15:52:44gevaertsSomeone else merged it into master
15:53:14*[Saint] hands gevaerts a shiny gold pedant pendant
15:53:34copperhow do I even create a new entry on gerrir
15:54:34copperUploading a change for review and testing
15:55:27[Saint]yes, but, after "setting up gerrit"
15:55:28copperoh geez
15:55:32[Saint]you've not done so yet.
15:55:51copperI can't deal with this right now
15:57:06[Saint]silly caps.
16:00:07copperI don't see the link between the two
16:00:13copperI just have other stuff to do
16:00:51copperthis is a silly two-liner change that we've been discussing for an hour (or more), which requires me to set up a lot of things, when a simple forum post would do.
16:01:22[Saint]"its too hard, someone else can do it"
16:01:26copperI don't mind google knowing about my Wiki changes and my Rockbox themes
16:01:33copperI said "right now"
16:01:38copperI'll do it later
16:02:09[Saint]seriously, though, setup gerrit with a realname, as we need it.
16:02:37[Saint]otherwise someone else is just going to have to cherrypick and push it directly under their name.
16:05:39copper(this is like the french administration that requires me to fill up a gazilion different forms for anything to happen)
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16:14:24jlbiasinicopper: so you are in for your first commit? welcome in!
16:14:52[Saint]save that for merge. :)
16:15:06jlbiasiniIt seems I just missed a quite funny discution... :D
16:15:44coppermeh, back for a few
16:16:05copperthinking about it, I will not post the patch
16:16:25coppersince apparently it indirectly broke volume handling, and people are working on that to fix it
16:16:36copperso I guess that simply reverting the commit won't do
16:16:59copper[Saint]: that commit is all the more unfortunate that it (indirectly) caused the volume handling shitstorm
16:17:26copperwhich makes the current git state for the Fuze+ pretty much unusable
16:18:03copperI'm also unable to implement soap's idea of allowing fine-grained values in the configuration file
16:18:22copper(which, if it didn't affect anything else, would certainly be acceptable to me)
16:18:31jlbiasinicopper: i still don't understand how these patches don't work on your device. Can I send you the rockbox.sansa file to put on your device to be sure we have the very same code? It could be important because if it turns out not to work it could means that those different touchpad we have on the fuze+ don't handle power function the same way....
16:18:53copperjlbiasini: sure, though I don't have long
16:19:37copperalso, the volume handling fixes have no reason to be, to begin with
16:20:03copperthe whole thing just broken what didn't need any fixing :-/
16:20:08copperdamn fingers
16:20:33jlbiasinicopper: did you read the post from pamaury on the mailing list, I don't remember the detail, but there were some... :D
16:20:44copperI don't even know where the ML is
16:20:45 Join fs-bluebot [0] (
16:21:02copperand I hate mailing lists with passion
16:21:33coppermy gmail would keep telling me that friends are writing me, when really it's just a lot of chatter that doesn't interest me
16:21:52[Saint]that's what filters are for.
16:22:39bluebrother[Saint]: lately it seems to fall off the network quite often and then fails to disconnect. Haven't found the reason for that, it's been working quite well before :/
16:22:55bluebrotherand while I did change the bot I haven't changed that part of the code. Strange thing.
16:23:39copperjlbiasini: WHY
16:23:52copperwhy deal with tens of decibels, for ANYTHING?
16:24:13jlbiasiniyou can look at the answer that were given, basicly there are different views about it, so simply reverting the first commit could be considered as valid? I have no idea, I don't really know those kind of stuff
16:24:26jlbiasiniI understand your point
16:25:12copperI see only one reply, which doesn't say anything of interest
16:25:46*[Saint] needs to trace if he actually caused this or not now.
16:26:06[Saint](when I say "caused" that would mean I had the benefit of knowing the future at the time, but, hey...)
16:26:30[Saint]I think I'm off the hook.
16:30:31jlbiasinicopper: copy that file in the .rockbox folder of your device (rename the one already present before if you want to save your build first)
16:31:26jlbiasinithen reboot your f+ and check if whan you lock keys anything happens if you touch the touchpad
16:32:48copperjlbiasini: that works, I guess I screwed up my previous build
16:33:39jlbiasinicool It would have been strange to have a non RMI standart touchpad in place of the usual one...
16:33:42copperjlbiasini: was that built against a fully up to date git source?
16:33:56copperseems not
16:34:04coppersince it doesn't have the volume problem
16:34:29jlbiasiniit's a patched one
16:35:05jlbiasiniI didn't want to revert all the patch since you said you didn't had much time
16:35:32jlbiasiniI think that I did revert the non locking of volume keys
16:35:32copperit does have the volume problem
16:36:03jlbiasiniyeah I was surprised it didn't because I revert it also
16:36:40jlbiasinido you want a quick rebuild including the volume patch from pamaury?
16:37:17copperno thanks
16:37:48copperI'll just wait for the [REDACTED] to get ironed out
16:37:53coppergotta go
16:43:56jlbiasiniwell considering the implementation specificity it could last because the advantage of relying on a general function was that it doesn't need to recognized wether a keymaps come from hard keys or from virtuals ones
16:44:25jlbiasiniit just disable the touchdevice
16:45:52 Quit derf (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:45:54jlbiasinigevaerts: would it still be ok to rely on such a function implemented in the driver, if the power stuff are done separatly
16:50:22 Quit tertu (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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16:52:35jlbiasinithe alternative is to have a bit cache with all the button define as something like HARD_KEYS in the button_target.h file of every touch device and to compare it to the keys before reacting in action.c
16:53:13jlbiasinior the oposite VIRTUAL_KEYS
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17:42:08jlbiasiniOk I just had a look to the Classic code to handle wheel and keylock. Actually that device has a real keylock so the wheel get disable at driver level which makes sense. BUT the fuze+ having only softkeys cannot test directly at driver level for it, or at least I don't thik that it is the role of a drivers to perform such action. It is rockbox using the drivers to decede what should happen and how to do it, not the other way around... any idea on th
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18:40:13ZincAlloystation art works exactly like album art and I have to place the jpgs inside the fm preset folder, right?
18:42:57ZincAlloyI've named a preset "Radio Salzburg" and placed a file named Radio Salzburg.jpg in the folder. When I turn on the radio now Rockbox gets stuck on a "predefined instru.." screen
18:48:33ZincAlloymust have been the file. tried a different file and there's no problem
18:50:18ZincAlloyoh, wait, the other file is incorrectly named
18:51:47ZincAlloyno error screen, but it does make rockbox crash
18:53:35ZincAlloyno screen updates at first. and if I keep on trying it doesn't react at all. gotta check my fms code once again, but it should be ok. I took the album art part from a working wps
18:57:39ZincAlloysorry, it was undefined instru... indeed
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19:10:42ZincAlloysorry, crashed. The clip zip simulator also crashes when it tries to load station art
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19:21:57ZincAlloyseems to be known bug: I should have looked it up first, sorry!
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19:46:16copperI can't tell what commit broke volume control on the Fuze+. Is it one of the "keymaps" updates?
19:46:25copper(yes, I could just bisect)
19:53:43copperhow do I reply to an existing message on the mailing list, without having a copy?
19:54:05copper"Re: <subject>" in the subject?
19:55:40*copper hasn't used mailing lists in over a decade
19:56:16gevaertsThat's probably the best you can do if you can't add a proper reply to header
19:57:44gevaertsyes, but you need the message id for that
19:57:58copperyeah, the archive doesn't seem to provide it
19:58:45copperif gmail can do it, I don't know how
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21:10:33saratogawhy was the volume resolution changed anyway?
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21:21:43saratogaB4gder: ping
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21:45:25bertrikWas volume always in dB already? I can even imagine that volume could be just "steps" with the driver being able to convert step 'X' into a dB value
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21:50:25copper[Saint]: "Thank you for your fantastic theme. However I presume there is an issue. In the now playing screen, if the Artist or Album Name is long, when it starts to slide, the whole line beeps rapidly."
21:50:37copperthat's what I reported the other day
21:50:39saratogaIIRC it used to be 1dB steps that the drivers converted into their native units, but i don't know what the recent changes involved
21:51:03copperwhen the available width is a tiny bit too small, the line blinks instead of scrolling
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21:54:10copperhow to reproduce: download, set the theme to "iBox", change the "album" tag of any song to "Random Access Memories", play that song
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21:54:35copperworks in the iPod Video sim
21:54:44 Quit dv__ (Excess Flood)
21:54:47copperI mean, the bug shows in the iPod Video sim
21:54:55coppercan be reproduced*
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22:06:44copperinterestingly, I can't reproduce that bug with the Fuze+
22:06:56copperwith the same font, metadata and dimensions
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22:16:22copperok, I see the blinking happening on the iPod Video sim even when the available width is significantly narrower than the metadata value
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22:19:28coppervery interesting
22:20:40copperthe title and artist theme fields are exactly the same dimensions, but the bug doesn't happen with the track title section on my theme
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22:23:58copperthe bug is fixed if I change the color of the field from 666666 to 000000 o_O
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22:26:11copperall colors except black cause the bug, apparently
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22:29:59bertrikif it happens in the sim as well, it's much easier to debug
22:30:58bertrikcopper: can you wrap everything up in a flyspray bug?
22:33:06copperabout the theme bug?
22:33:35copperI don't even know what the report
22:33:46copperI don't understand what's causing it at all
22:33:58copperI'm trying a bunch of things
22:34:36copperit does seem to have something to do with colors
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22:41:24copperI don't understand
22:41:49copperthis causes it to blink
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22:59:53copperthis is incomprehensible
23:03:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:06:12soapto be clear, copper, there is widespread consensus that "in the .cfg only" settings are Not Policy
23:06:35soapand I don't cap my fist initial. ;)
23:07:42copperI'm going insane over that blinking bug
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23:17:43coppersuper weird
23:18:06copperI fixed it by putting the color definition (%Vf) and the metadata (%s%ac%id) on the same line
23:18:18copperthere were no trailing characters
23:39:11 Quit jlbiasini (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
23:48:26pixelma_I've sometimes seen blank lines in viewports where non should be and the positioning of %Vf or even other thing in the code affecting it. Maybe what you see as "blinking" is a short appearance of a blank line?
23:48:41 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
23:57:53copperyou mean a blank line that has the same height as the text?
23:58:07copperas opposed to a 1px high line

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