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#rockbox log for 2013-07-26

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03:44:20 Join micah [0] (~micah@debian/developer/micah)
03:44:53micahi've been happily using my new rockbox'd ipod to listen to podcasts that I put on there with gpodder. Works great, kudus to everyone who worked on rockbox
03:45:08micahwhat I'm looking for is a way to tell that I've listened to an episode
03:45:44micahi might put 10 episodes of a particular podcast on, listen to three of them and then go listen to some other podcasts and then when I come back to listen to more of the original ones, I can't remember which one I last listend to
03:45:58micahI end up listening to the beginning of a few of them until I remember that I'd listened to it
03:46:13micahi thought maybe there was a way to handle this in rockbox so I've been looking around for any ideas
03:49:23[Saint]You could /probably/ do this with a custom tagnavi file filtering by play count.
03:50:55[Saint]so, basically, you'd have everything with a play count greater than 0 appear in a "Listened To" directory in the Database or something.
03:51:05[Saint]mind you, this assumes you even *use* the Database.
03:51:17[Saint] may not. :-S
04:03:09*[Saint] gives up
04:03:48[Saint]It is *far* too difficult (and voluminous) to get skinned lists to act anywhere near the built-in list system.
04:04:11[Saint]wrt: behavior in regard to respect of system settings for display
04:04:46[Saint]I basically need to reimplement the lists for each case :-S
04:05:08[Saint]icons, no icons, scroll bar left, scroll bar right, no scroll bar...
04:05:30[Saint]scroll bar width is just impossible :)
04:05:49[Saint](though you could make a case for each pixel in width :P)
04:06:10[Saint]Nup. Nuts to this. I give up.
04:07:33*[Saint] should listen to JdGordon more often
04:07:50 Join ikeboy [0] (
04:10:04[Saint]skinned lists are great, but only if you're prepared to completely rob control of the assets from the user.
04:10:44[Saint]I thought it could be done. And it can be done. It just isn't worth it. :)
04:14:20[Saint]copper: ping?
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05:59:00[Saint]Its such a shame that you can't theme scrollbars without skinned lists :-S
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06:15:40 Join HaloNachos117 [0] (
06:17:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:20:39HaloNachos117Hi, all! I would very much like to make some small changes to one of the wiki. Could someone please add me to the WikiUsersGroup, that would be nice.
06:22:05[Saint]HaloNachos is the username?
06:22:37[Saint]Ok, one second.
06:23:54[Saint]HaloNachos117: Done.
06:24:01[Saint]Welcome to the project.
06:25:00HaloNachos117Thanks for living up to your name! Now, to get to the wiki...
06:25:19[Saint]No problem. :)
06:33:56[Saint]Ahhhhhh shit.
06:34:19[Saint]Apparently I never committed the recipe sheet for my font pack.
06:39:19HaloNachos117Alright, folks... I'm out.
06:39:31[Saint]Thanks you.
06:40:39 Quit HaloNachos117 (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
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07:54:46amayerdoes anyone know how to compile tools/convttf?
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08:43:21[Saint]Oh, he left.
08:44:14[Saint]Probably hit a dependency problem.
08:45:00[Saint]libfreetype6-dev, would be my first guess.
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09:19:21[Saint]JdGordon: I am right in thinking there's no way to theme the scrollbar without skinned lists, yes?
09:19:43[Saint]I thought there was...but, apparently I'm misremembering.
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10:50:18copper[Saint]: pong
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11:55:31lorenzo92bluebrother^: are you working on something for the cramfs? just to avoid conflicts :D
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13:57:53[Saint]copper: What type of modifications did you make to the iBox theme?
13:58:06copperfor the blinking bug?
13:58:08[Saint]I am trying to get an idea of what users want, that the Apple OF doesn't have.
13:58:43copperwell, I didn't take user input for it, I simply made the theme that I, personnally, wanted
13:59:07copper1) numeric values for volume and battery life, because a pretty icon is way too inaccurate
13:59:14copper2) HDD activity indicator
13:59:27[Saint]I just added an optional "gas gauge" for the battery level in percentile that functions from the settings - theme settings - battery - graphical/numerical display settings.
13:59:33 Join ZincAlloy [0] (
14:00:09[Saint]that will show the battery level in a percentile next to the icon if the setting == numeric
14:00:10copper3) no lost real estate for the sbs, I wanted the menu to take all the usable space, although with decent margins from the 4 sides
14:00:24 Join lebellium_gs2 [0] (~lebellium@
14:00:57copper4) tracknumber, track duration, title, artist, album, year, and just because I had some space left: codec and bitrate
14:01:34copperoh, and current position in track (in minutes:seconds) and remaining time left
14:02:00copperI didn't include a play / pause icon, mostly because I don't really need it, and I couldn't be arsed to figure out something pretty
14:02:16copperHDD activity is the one thing that's missing from most themes, IMO
14:02:16[Saint]I initially made me "iLike" theme ~98% faithfully accurate to the Apple OF, but now I am going through and adding usability back into it.
14:02:49copperit's very useful to tell the user not to overwhelm Rockbox while there's already heavy HDD activity
14:03:39[Saint]Lots of the clones I have seen of iLike ended up screwing up the HDD access animation by cut/paste errors. :)
14:03:43[Saint]There's supposed to be one.
14:04:04[Saint]One of the reasons I stopped working on this theme is because it got cloned and butchered by a bazillion people :)
14:05:25[Saint]Anyhoo, thank you, copper - the input is appreciated.
14:05:53[Saint]I will prod you for testing when I am done here, if you would like.
14:11:49[Saint]The finished product is essentially my best effort at a complete clone of the Apple OF for the iPod Video, but with the "missing bits" added in to it and making sure that it respects user settings.
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15:52:59copper[Saint]: I also change the color of the volume when > 0dBFS, and the battery percentage when < 10%
15:53:46copperblue when it's <= +3dB and >= 5%, red when > +3dB and <5%
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15:59:21[Saint]hahahaha - man, that's creepy.
15:59:33[Saint]I was literally just adding a similar thing.
16:00:09[Saint]red when the battery percentile is lesser than 10, and red when the volume is greater than 0dB
16:00:22[Saint](black otherwise)
16:00:29coppersounds good
16:00:30 Join mortalis_ [0] (~mortalis@
16:04:00[Saint]did you just do it like '%?if(%pv,<=,foo)<%fg(AAAAAA)|%fg(BBBBBB)>'?
16:04:15 Quit mortalis (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
16:04:33[Saint]there's a few ways I could approach this...hmmm.
16:04:56[Saint]copper: ^
16:05:35copper%?if(%pv, >, 0)<%?if(%pv, >, 3)<%Vf(ff0000)|%Vf(186dbd)>|%Vf(555555)>
16:06:02copperwell, that code uses two conditions for two different colors
16:06:26copperand I use viewports
16:06:39copperbut yeah that's basically the same thing
16:07:12*[Saint] nods
16:10:25copperI kinda want to make new themes for the Classic and the Fuze+, notably for the Classic, that doesn't look like the OF, but I'm no graphics designer
16:10:36coppermuch easier to copy and modify, than to create
16:11:21copperI really like
16:11:25coppermaybe I'll modify that
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16:14:08[Saint]ah, yes. very ubuntu/rhythmbox-esque.
16:16:12[Saint]No icons looks nice, but I have discovered, it is a royal pain in the ass.
16:16:32[Saint]Is that a directory? IS it an audio file? AN image? A plugin? :)
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16:18:02[Saint]That is the reason I stopped using the skin engine to draw the lists and use the built-in list mechanism instead, it makes it much much easier to switch between icons/no icons.
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16:24:50copperoy, a thread on HA made me think of a cool feature for caudec (I just implemented it) and Rockbox: peak normalization using Replaygain Album Peak or Track Peak
16:27:00copperi.e. make "quiet" tracks / albums with headroom, as loud as possible without clipping
16:28:38 Quit lebellium_gs2 (Remote host closed the connection)
16:28:56copperit's really simple
16:29:17coppertake peak < 1.0, convert FS to dB, invert the sign, apply gain
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16:45:13pixelma*may*be the "file"type colors could be used for identifying directory/files etc.? I don't know though how they work exactly, it's just something I wanted to try out for my own Android theme which I didn't work on in quite a while for the lack of a basic idea that somehow gives a good structure for all the small features I'd liked - plus the frustration to get the code to do what I wanted without breaking other stuff
16:50:56amayer[Saint]: you said to run make to make convttf.c how do i run make on just that file?
16:51:05amayer(doesnt know much about compiling)
16:52:37 Quit DexterLB (Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish)
16:53:44[Saint]amayer: 'make convttf'
16:54:07[Saint]you'll likely need to install libfreetype6-dev
16:54:12amayeri tried using gcc... ill try with make
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18:10:33amayer[Saint], make worked :)
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18:17:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:22:27amayerif the font i would like to use is part of the Open Font License I can include it with a theme correct? It says "Free to distribute as long as it is not sold individually"
18:24:23kugelthink so
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18:35:51amayerwhen should fonts be added to the font pack? I know not every font should be added to keep the size down but im just wondering what the protocol for that is
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18:46:29kugelamayer: when we accept the font into our tree
18:47:29amayerkugel, I understand it has to be in the tree. im just wondering how the fonts in the tree/font pack are picked
18:48:22kugelI don't think we're clear on that
18:48:42kugelwe never added a new font since I'm involved iirc
18:53:58kugelamayer: but we generally need the fonts in a format that can be edited and the license needs to allow for that
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19:54:42amayerkugel, the one im working with is a google web font and is Open Font License
19:55:05amayer(im not saying it should be added it was just something i was wondering about)
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20:16:21copper[Saint]: actually, I get the blinking bug on the Fuze+ too
20:18:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:31:08amayerdo you have a condition inside a viewport? i experienced blinking when i did that but when i moved the condition out of the viewport it stopped
20:32:01copperI do
20:32:21coppermy fix is to put all the viewport code on the same line
20:32:25copperugly, but it works
20:37:58amayercopper, try taking the condition out and see if the blinking stops. ill bet that is whats causing it. my theme works way better now that i changed that. and inbetween songs is smoother (theme wise) also
20:43:42copperHow? The condition decides whether to display metadata or "unknown"
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21:09:24 Quit EstebanMonge (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
21:21:20amayercopper: hmm... you could have 2 viewports and use %?cond<%Vl(a)|%Vl(b)> and %Vd(a)%metadata %Vd(b)unknown
21:21:38amayernot saying its pretty but it might stop the flickering
21:22:12amayeri usually do those conditions like "has artist tag" and "has album title" in the viewport too
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21:28:51lorenzo92we have an inconsistency in rbpaths, I discovered it while fixing screendump for hosted targets...
21:29:17lorenzo92for ypr0 we have HOME_DIR "/mnt/media0", while for the other ports simply HOME_DIR "/"
21:29:48lorenzo92so the question is: does rockbox care of double // in a path? if unix "compliant", it should, can you confirm?
21:34:29lorenzo92kugel: ^
21:39:04[Saint]regarding fonts, personally, I think we should generate a GNU Unifont of the required size for each cabbie port and axe the rest.
21:39:43[Saint]perhaps an antialiased version and a bitmap version.
21:40:07*[Saint] has just given himself something to do...
21:40:19lebelliumI can't wait [Saint] :P
21:42:41ZincAlloythe problem with pixelfonts is that they tend to come out nice looking only at certain sizes. at least the way I created mine
21:44:56ZincAlloymy approach was rather primitive, though
21:47:22 Quit EstebanMonge (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:51:24amayerwhen was Cabbie v2 created?
21:51:51ZincAlloywe made additional unifonts version then
21:52:45[Saint]Coincidentally, I started generating some GNU Unifont 5.1 .fnt files last night.
21:53:16ZincAlloyto make it more accessible. it looks much more pleasing with helvetica (which has plenty of glyphs, too)
21:53:46[Saint]there's no font that even comes close to the coverage of GNU Unifont.
21:54:04[Saint]ANd ideally, the default font should "Just Work" in the users language.
21:54:09Tornemisc-fixed is pretty good ;)
21:54:26Torne6x13 and so on
21:54:41[Saint]As no part of the documentation says that the user must have the forethought to check the glyph coverage before switching from Eng. :)
21:55:11*gevaerts can confirm that
21:55:41gevaertsI'm using misc-fixed for terminals, and while it doesn't have *everything*, only rasher seems to be able to find the missing glyphs
21:55:57[Saint]I'll have a look.
21:56:15[Saint]One assumes it is permissibly licensed?
21:57:20Torneit's a monospace font, though
21:57:26Tornealready bitmap
21:57:28Tornein various sizes
21:57:37[Saint]Whatever font we pick, I still think its a good idea to try to use it throughout all the ports and axe the other fonts.
21:57:58Tornemgk25 is the man who makes unicode work. :)
21:57:59[Saint]The default theme having different fonts per target is weird.
21:58:40ZincAlloywhy axe the other fonts?
21:59:05[Saint]Same reason as we got rid of the other themes.
21:59:14ZincAlloywould make the creation of themes more of a pain
21:59:29[Saint]No it wouldn't...
21:59:30ZincAlloyand compromise the useability of existing themes
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21:59:47ZincAlloyah, so they would still be included in the font pack?
22:00:08 Join scorche [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
22:00:13[Saint]There's just no point in shipping more fonts than needed, IMO.
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22:00:41ZincAlloyhow many fonts does rockbox come with? I never installed it witout the fonts pack
22:04:00[Saint]Only one, sorry, I have been unclear. Its the fact they differ per device that bugs me.
22:04:22[Saint]per-port, rather.
22:05:50[Saint]But, yes, if all the cabbie ports were made to use the same font - the other fonts would still be available via the font pack.
22:08:52[Saint]I actually thought that a default install shipped with more than a single font, though, guess not.
22:09:10ZincAlloyunifont is rather tall. I think that was one of the reasons we went for helvetica.
22:09:35[Saint]only glyph coverage concerns me.
22:09:56[Saint]users can easily change the font if they find it ugly.
22:10:03ZincAlloyit's always a compromise
22:10:14[Saint]my primary concern is it working with as many locales as possible.
22:10:32ZincAlloyno. themes tend to work only at specific font sizes
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22:11:09[Saint]What's your point? I am aware of this.
22:11:11ZincAlloyit's first visual impression vs. working with any locale
22:11:37ZincAlloycabbie was created out of the need for a nicer first visual impression
22:11:39[Saint]I can generate a .fnt file from Unifont of any arbitrary height.
22:11:47ZincAlloybut will it look good?
22:12:22[Saint]That shouldn;t be a concern.
22:12:37[Saint]Usability trumps prettiness.
22:12:48[Saint]And frankly, cabbie isn't pretty to begin with :P
22:13:14ZincAlloyoh, I like it a lot. haven't been able to come up with something prettier
22:18:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:18:50[Saint]The only reason I am against using a font like Helvetica, is that it is extremely non-obvious to a user who speaks CJK or some form of Left-to-Right dialect that they would need to first change to a font that they may not even have installed before selecting their language or face the possibility of rendering the UI completely inoperable if they don't happen to have voice files installed and selected.
22:19:38[Saint]That creates a terrible first impression.
22:19:58ZincAlloyyeah, it's quite a bummer
22:28:15ZincAlloydoes deja vu cover all the glyph sets we need?
22:30:10ZincAlloyoh, wait, the font generator makes it look like such a mess..
22:31:45[Saint]unifont wins by a massive margin.
22:35:43ZincAlloyof course it does. will it actually be readable in all languages once brought down to target size?
22:38:44ZincAlloybtw, why were unifont versions ditched?
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22:51:29ZincAlloylooking up stuff.. it appears loading times were an issue at some point:
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23:13:12 Join Raptors [0] (
23:28:56 Join ender` [0] (
23:44:39 Quit y4n (Quit: We're fucking 3LN!)

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