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| 07:00:16 | * | [Saint] throws his hands up in dispair |
| 07:00:37 | [Saint] | WHY would it be an issue if I nuke CustomWPS if the info is consolidated in the manual? |
| 07:01:13 | | Join ps-auxw [0] (~arneb@2001:470:c807:0:1532:4e5f:2ad3:4123) |
| 07:02:20 | [Saint] | Its like...."Hmmmm...favor incorrect community driven documentation that is constantly incorrect and outdated, or, consilidate it all in the *official* documentation committers are obligated to update..." |
| 07:02:26 | [Saint] | Geee...tough call guys. :P |
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| 07:09:42 | [Saint] | copper: no, no such changes were made. |
| 07:10:06 | | Join shai_ [0] (~Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) |
| 07:10:06 | [Saint] | (also, commit log is publicly available) |
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| 07:43:19 | * | [Saint] needs to do this fucking push to nuke CustomWPS in favor of the manual... |
| 07:43:37 | [Saint] | *wanting* it to happen, sadly, isn't enough. :) |
| 07:45:22 | [Saint] | I had it like ~80% done and just needed to go through and list the *completely* undocumented tags a while ago, a long while ago, but I lost all that work when my netbook committed suicide. |
| 07:46:07 | [Saint] | If more than three people cared about themeing I'd be really ashamed of myself. |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:37 | | Quit Raptors (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:00:43 | copper | [Saint]: is all the information on the wiki available in the manual? |
| 08:00:55 | [Saint] | No. |
| 08:00:59 | [Saint] | Nor vice versa. |
| 08:01:11 | copper | Then please don't nuke it? |
| 08:01:30 | [Saint] | what part of "consolidate" is escaping people? |
| 08:01:43 | [Saint] | If one includes the other, the other is needless. |
| 08:01:57 | | Join Raptors [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net) |
| 08:02:04 | copper | also, why the manual |
| 08:02:12 | copper | CustomWPS isn't really target specific |
| 08:02:18 | [Saint] | Its the official source of documentation. |
| 08:02:24 | [Saint] | The wiki is a massive clusterfuck. |
| 08:02:52 | copper | at least the wiki can be modified by anyone |
| 08:02:55 | copper | the manual, not so much |
| 08:03:01 | [Saint] | that's the problem. |
| 08:03:09 | copper | is it |
| 08:03:24 | [Saint] | Yes. There's nothing stopping anyone from adding complete bullshit to it. |
| 08:03:29 | [Saint] | And, who would notice? |
| 08:03:45 | [Saint] | This shit doesn't change on a daily basis. :) |
| 08:03:50 | copper | and if the manual is poorly written, I can only bitch about it, hoping someone will fix it |
| 08:04:12 | [Saint] | If someone makes a change, they push the documentation change like they're supposed to...and, everything just works. |
| 08:04:21 | [Saint] | The fact that didn't happen is why we're in this mess. |
| 08:04:56 | [Saint] | The wiki is good, but its basically a best effort attempt to fix the holes that shouldn;'t exist in the manual. |
| 08:05:38 | copper | if there's a problem with the manual, eventually I'll find myself in the same situation as before where people who are able to change something, won't |
| 08:05:54 | copper | and I'll be asked again to file a bug and set up a gazillion stupid accounts to make my case |
| 08:06:25 | [Saint] | That doesn't change the fact that the wiki is absolutlely the wrong place for this. |
| 08:06:33 | copper | what |
| 08:06:47 | copper | writing technical information on a wiki is hardly new |
| 08:06:50 | copper | and it usually works |
| 08:07:06 | [Saint] | I really don't care a flying fuck to be honest. |
| 08:07:07 | copper | the wiki software was invented for such things |
| 08:07:10 | [Saint] | It doesn't work NOW. |
| 08:07:14 | [Saint] | And it hasn;t for years. |
| 08:07:28 | copper | fine |
| 08:07:50 | copper | I'm pretty sure I'm going to hate you for this |
| 08:08:16 | [Saint] | Asking a committer to update *one* place that they are OBLIGATED to, doesn't work...you expect them to update *two* places? |
| 08:08:46 | [Saint] | or should we drop the theme section in the manual and leave just the wiki? (hint: NO.) |
| 08:09:23 | [Saint] | I really don't see what is hard to understand about the manual being the right place for this. |
| 08:10:56 | [Saint] | (of additional note, from something you mentioned earlier, is that the theme section of the manuals are not target specific) |
| 08:11:49 | copper | well |
| 08:11:59 | copper | it's not like I get to vote on anything |
| 08:12:27 | copper | also |
| 08:12:28 | [Saint] | I could understand people being up in arms about this if I got rid of CustomWPS *before* consolidating the information. |
| 08:12:50 | [Saint] | But, I am not, nor have I ever indicated I would, doing so. |
| 08:12:54 | copper | somebody please fix the stupid <base> tag on the wiki that causes redirections and full page reloading everytime you click on a link (sigh) |
| 08:13:00 | [Saint] | That won;t vanish until the manual is complete. |
| 08:13:35 | [Saint] | Its basically people arguing because I want to make the documentation complete. |
| 08:13:43 | [Saint] | ...fuck, I could leave it, if you're happy. |
| 08:14:23 | [Saint] | If you really want to dig through two places to find anything, and then dig through the source to find whats missing...be my guest. |
| 08:14:56 | [Saint] | If I get bitched at for wanting to do good, it really doesn't make me want to...y'know...do anything. |
| 08:16:14 | copper | I'm not saying, "don't fix the incomplete and sometimes incorrect documentation" |
| 08:16:42 | copper | I'm saying, "don't make it harder for contributors to fix the documentation, when everyone else can't be arsed to do it" |
| 08:17:29 | copper | I can edit the wiki easy enough (and I have) |
| 08:22:07 | copper | [Saint]: that's the problem IMO, when people like me would like something to be done, we can't expect anything to be done because this is a Free Software project and Rockbox developers work for free, on their free time |
| 08:22:31 | copper | at least with the Wiki, I can do it myself |
| 08:22:55 | copper | and I don't have to ask anyone to go out of their way to do it |
| 08:23:28 | copper | if you're going to fix everything and make the manual super accurate and complete, by all means, be my guest |
| 08:23:38 | [Saint] | I'm sorry, but, that is fuckign laughable. |
| 08:23:46 | copper | ? |
| 08:24:01 | [Saint] | The fact this is a free software project is EXACTLY why you should expect something to be done about it. |
| 08:24:06 | scorche | can we keep the discussion a bit tamer without resorting to a whole lot of "fucks"? |
| 08:24:08 | [Saint] | Want it done? |
| 08:24:13 | [Saint] | Who's stopping you? |
| 08:24:58 | copper | [Saint]: the whole setup is putting me off |
| 08:25:17 | copper | and my previous experience is putting me off |
| 08:25:30 | [Saint] | We accept manual submissions from many places, always have. |
| 08:25:38 | copper | even you guys said that git put off many contributors |
| 08:25:43 | [Saint] | We do know that LaTex is a bit of an ask for most people. |
| 08:25:54 | copper | oh, I need to learn LaTeX now? |
| 08:25:57 | copper | Forget about it. |
| 08:26:04 | [Saint] | Submissions can be made in plain text on Flyspray, or the ML, etc. |
| 08:26:21 | [Saint] | Its always been this way. |
| 08:26:26 | [Saint] | (for the manual) |
| 08:26:48 | copper | yeah, I'm not subscribing to the ML again. |
| 08:34:41 | | Quit Raptors (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:35:47 | [Saint] | In a rare period of understanding, I do get why you're passionate about this. |
| 08:35:50 | | Join Raptors [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net) |
| 08:36:06 | [Saint] | But, once its finished, no user should have any reason to need to edit this documentation. |
| 08:36:32 | [Saint] | The fact people need to do so now is merely a symptom of the entire problem. |
| 08:37:45 | copper | ok |
| 08:37:47 | [Saint] | If we catch up the documentation with where we're at with the source in the manual, and make sure future changes come with documentation or not at all, there shouldn't ever be a need for a user to step in. |
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| 08:39:47 | [Saint] | I genuinely ashamed of myself that you have to be so passionate about this. I apologize for it. I sat and watched it happen and I didn't fix it. |
| 08:40:02 | [Saint] | But, I want to do something about it now, and I hope that counts for somethign. |
| 08:41:09 | copper | sure it does |
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| 08:45:05 | | Join Raptors [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net) |
| 08:45:20 | copper | also, I need to make a SVN repo for my themes |
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| 08:57:34 | copper | ugh |
| 08:58:02 | copper | oh |
| 08:58:08 | * | copper is an idiot |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:10:54 | copper | [Saint]: maybe the word "skin" should be replaced with "theme" everywhere, if "theme" is the accepted term |
| 09:20:41 | copper | woah |
| 09:20:50 | copper | there's something wrong with %mp |
| 09:21:55 | copper | if I simply display %mp, its value starts from 0 |
| 09:22:16 | copper | if I use %mp in a %?if() conditional, it starts from 1 |
| 09:30:53 | jlbiasini | does anybody know something about the config file for creative zen? we have zenvisionm30gb.h, zenvisionm60gb.h which are clearly identified, zenvision.h that is just an alias for zenvisionm30gb.h, and then creativezv.h which seems to be a different player but I ccan't find it in other file (Zen Vision according to the comments) |
| 09:33:33 | jlbiasini | oups that #define HAVE_TOUCHPAD is commented out sorry I don't need info on this player anymore... |
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| 09:48:48 | copper | ok, the manual mentionned the "number" parameter of %ss() |
| 09:48:51 | copper | the wiki doesn't |
| 09:49:30 | copper | but as it turns out, %?if(%ss(0, 2, %St(font), number), =, 14)<fourteen|some other size> |
| 09:49:33 | copper | doesn't work |
| 09:49:49 | | Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@pD9E43CB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:50:23 | copper | %?ss(0, 2, %St(font), number)<zero|one|two|three|four|else> |
| 09:50:24 | copper | works |
| 09:50:48 | copper | but the latter is hardly usable since it requires covering every single value |
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| 10:05:41 | copper | AH! |
| 10:05:45 | copper | I knew it |
| 10:05:52 | copper | %?if(%ss(0, 2, %St(font), number), =, 14)<fourteen|some other size> |
| 10:06:15 | copper | ^ doesn't work because %?if() starts at 1 instead of 0 for everything else |
| 10:06:19 | copper | %?if(%ss(0, 2, %St(font), number), =, 15)<fourteen|some other size> |
| 10:06:25 | copper | ^^ returns "fourteen" |
| 10:06:38 | | Join melmothX [0] (~melmoth@unaffiliated/melmothx) |
| 10:07:16 | copper | ^^ returns "fourteen" when the font is "14-Nimbus" |
| 10:07:41 | copper | that is so fucked up |
| 10:10:30 | jlbiasini | anyone around with a touchscreen device? |
| 10:10:44 | jlbiasini | I would nedd some testers for a patch |
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| 11:38:02 | jlbiasini | pamaury: ping |
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| 11:44:21 | copper | anyone else having problems with the Google Play Store on Android 4.3? |
| 12:00 |
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| 12:10:36 | lebellium | [Saint]: the manual may be the official documentation. But still it doesn't make sense for the theme documentation. The manual is target specific and it has many pages. We just don't want to go there to read that documentation. We want our wiki page. That's it. I prefer reading an incomplete documentation on the wiki than a complete documentation in the manual. I just use the manual to know... |
| 12:10:37 | lebellium | ...how my player works. Any other use of a manual doesn't make sense |
| 12:13:16 | copper | that's harsh |
| 12:13:35 | copper | I obviously prefer to read complete documentation, anywhere |
| 12:14:40 | pixelma | I guess a separate theme manual might make sense. My problem with current manual and wiki is that neither stresses the differences between colour, greyscale and monochrome targets - I once thought about making the part in the manual more target specific but then decided that it probably wasn't that good either because it's possible to make themes that work on all displays and so on |
| 12:15:23 | | Join Xerion [0] (~xerion@5419F5F4.cm-5-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 12:17:29 | copper | also, can someone comment on the %?if() bug above? |
| 12:18:34 | copper | I will strangle anyone claiming that it is a feature |
| 12:21:26 | lebellium | pixelma: on the themewebsite there is no distinction for that. Only the resolution is taken into account. Thefore you can find X5 themes for M5 themes for example, http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=iaudiom5 which doesn't make sense at all to me. I already tried color themes on a greyscale targets, it technically works but it's unsuable. |
| 12:22:52 | | Join Provel [0] (~Provel@75-132-18-44.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 12:24:12 | [Saint] | Did I seriously read "I prefer incomplete documentation"? |
| 12:24:20 | [Saint] | ...what is wrong with some people? Seriously? |
| 12:25:49 | [Saint] | "online only" documentation also sucks balls. |
| 12:26:15 | [Saint] | AT least with the manual you can trivially download a physical copy for storage and review it basically anywhere, Internet or no. |
| 12:29:51 | lebellium | Do what you want with the manual as long as CustomWPS remains online |
| 12:30:54 | [Saint] | It really puzzles me as to why certain people are being so vocal about this, with seemingly no rational reasoning for their concerns. |
| 12:31:12 | [Saint] | The minute I read "I prefer incomplete documentation" is exactly when I stop listening to that person. |
| 12:32:37 | lebellium | Of course I will not say that I prefer to read complete documentation anywhere like copper because otherwise you will complete the documentation in the user manual and then drop the CustomWPS page |
| 12:32:44 | lebellium | That's exactly what I don't want |
| 12:32:45 | pixelma | lebellium: I know but that's because the theme site doesn't look at the cfg and throws out themes that set foreground and background colours through global settings. If the WPS/SBS doesn't use unknown %Vf or %Vb, the themes "work" on those displays even if you can end up getting something unreadable |
| 12:34:33 | [Saint] | All I have been asking for is for someone to give me a legitimate reason as to why we need to maintain two sets of documentation (which we are obviously incapable of doing). |
| 12:35:00 | [Saint] | And when I suggest consolidating the information into a single source, and completing it, people get upset? |
| 12:35:05 | [Saint] | ...I mean...what!?! |
| 12:35:24 | [Saint] | I don't know why I bother. |
| 12:35:56 | lebellium | I suggest consolidating the information into the wiki page and drop the theme part of the manual |
| 12:36:01 | pamaury | jlbiasini: pong |
| 12:37:13 | [Saint] | WHy should the documentation be on the wiki, forcing a developer to keep that in line with the source? |
| 12:37:29 | [Saint] | It is precisely that reason that it is incomplete and people complain. |
| 12:39:24 | pixelma | well, together with the fact that the developer mostly forcing the theme code hates LaTeX |
| 12:39:41 | pixelma | not that I'm against a theme manual |
| 12:39:46 | lebellium | That's not true. If that was the reason, then the manual should be complete. The reality is that neither is. So we still can choose the wiki over the manual |
| 12:40:33 | [Saint] | Well, if you do, DO NOT COMPLAIN its incomplete, out of date, or wrong. |
| 12:44:57 | [Saint] | I would be happy to split out the theme section from the manual, that makes some sense indeed. But no one will ever be able to convince me that this information shouldn't be located in official documentation. |
| 12:45:04 | lebellium | The thing is that the manual is also incomplete, out of date and may be wrong. If I understood well you want to complete it. But then what happens next time it needs to be updated? Will the devs do it or will you be obliged to do it for them again and again? |
| 12:46:00 | [Saint] | I really don't see any further development on the horizon unless anyone else steps up. |
| 12:46:11 | [Saint] | So now is a very good time to get this done. |
| 12:46:58 | [Saint] | And yes, certainly, in future there needs to be a harder stance taken on features including documentation. |
| 12:48:15 | copper | does radio artwork no longer work? |
| 12:48:48 | [Saint] | I guess ultimately I feel as though if the manual is incorrect people have a right to complain. If the wiki is incorrect, I shrug my shoulders and say "Well, its a wiki". |
| 12:49:10 | [Saint] | copper: it should. |
| 12:51:06 | copper | doesn't |
| 12:52:25 | [Saint] | Can we rule out you doing something wrong? |
| 12:52:46 | [Saint] | I'm assuming the images are locate din /.rockbox/fmpresets/ and named the same as the FM presets in question? |
| 12:52:53 | [Saint] | *located in |
| 12:53:36 | [Saint] | radio also needs to be in preset mode. |
| 12:53:44 | [Saint] | manual tuning won't trigger the art display. |
| 12:54:21 | copper | yes |
| 12:54:22 | copper | all check |
| 12:54:30 | copper | preset name: Europe1 |
| 12:54:39 | copper | file name: Europe1.bmp |
| 12:54:41 | lebellium | [Saint]: the right to complain doesn't necessarily make things change. I also have the right to complain about USB issues on my Sansa but that doesn't change much and I know people here work for free during their free-time so.... |
| 12:54:44 | copper | I also tried Europe1.jpg |
| 12:55:43 | copper | [Saint]: do you know of a iPod Video/Classic theme, or Fuze+ theme, that has working radio art? |
| 12:57:54 | [Saint] | I'm assuming this is a current build? Looks like last time this was looked at was around May. |
| 12:57:57 | [Saint] | And, no. |
| 12:58:01 | [Saint] | I rarely use FM. |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:53 | pixelma | copper: btw., nice find about the %?if tag, did you report it as a bug in the tracker? |
| 13:02:36 | copper | pixelma: not yet |
| 13:02:50 | | Join trollin420 [0] (~chatzilla@user-0c6s742.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 13:03:46 | copper | "easy on the eyes theme"??? http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=481&target=sansafuzeplus |
| 13:03:49 | trollin420 | could someone give me the link for the 3.13 rockbox that works with the latest gen ipod classic? |
| 13:04:09 | [Saint] | trollin420: No. No one can. No such link exists. |
| 13:04:11 | trollin420 | think it was for ipod video |
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| 13:05:09 | [Saint] | Nor will a build for iPod Video work. |
| 13:05:15 | [Saint] | You want http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipod6g.zip |
| 13:05:28 | trollin420 | ok thanks saint |
| 13:05:54 | [Saint] | The Classic doesn't get any releases, due to the target staus. |
| 13:06:00 | [Saint] | *status. |
| 13:06:15 | trollin420 | is this from the ipod photo |
| 13:06:34 | [Saint] | No. |
| 13:07:13 | user890104 | trollin420: alternatively, you can install/update rockbox on ipod classic, using the rockbox utility app, it will download the correct version |
| 13:07:27 | [Saint] | This is a specific iPod Classic build, it just isn't made widely available as there's no real need to. |
| 13:07:54 | trollin420 | oh well thank you, appreciate the link |
| 13:07:56 | [Saint] | There's technically no way to install it, so making the build widely available would just confuse people. |
| 13:08:29 | trollin420 | you just unpack it in the root directory i thought to "install" |
| 13:09:16 | [Saint] | Well, yes, you do - but it requires a total third party bootloader to boot it. |
| 13:09:27 | [Saint] | emCORE != Rockbox. |
| 13:09:36 | trollin420 | i have emcore though |
| 13:09:38 | [Saint] | (even if the developers do share the same projects) |
| 13:10:33 | [Saint] | Yes, you do, of course you do. What I'm saying is that the reson there's no obviously linked iPod Classic builds is that Rockbox doesn't actually support a way to install it. |
| 13:12:40 | trollin420 | i think you gave me the same link before a few months back.... is it the same each time rockbox gets updated |
| 13:12:59 | [Saint] | That link will always point to the most current build, yes. |
| 13:13:12 | [Saint] | You can bookmark it to always get the vcurrent version. |
| 13:13:17 | [Saint] | *current |
| 13:13:35 | trollin420 | ok great |
| 13:15:05 | [Saint] | copper: hahaha - nice find. :) |
| 13:16:09 | copper | can't get the radio art to work |
| 13:16:31 | | Quit trollin420 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130119203203]) |
| 13:16:40 | [Saint] | I can't see anything that obviously breaks this. |
| 13:16:54 | [Saint] | ANd there's evidence to suggest there was a known good period in May. |
| 13:16:57 | [Saint] | Hmmm. |
| 13:19:14 | copper | and using %?C<got art|no art> makes the sim crash |
| 13:19:42 | [Saint] | just for the .fms, or in general? |
| 13:19:57 | copper | .fms |
| 13:20:33 | copper | just for the fms |
| 13:20:44 | copper | it works correctly in the wps |
| 13:22:53 | copper | Segmentation fault (core dumped) |
| 13:22:57 | copper | (in the fms) |
| 13:23:26 | copper | %C works correctly if I remove the artwork loading code |
| 13:23:47 | copper | %Cl() alone makes it crash |
| 13:24:01 | copper | I mean %Cl() in combination with %?C<> |
| 13:24:40 | copper | sigh |
| 13:27:08 | [Saint] | don't suppose you could build/try 280a0eb |
| 13:27:16 | copper | I could |
| 13:27:28 | [Saint] | (that's just prior to the only thing I can see that might obviously affect this) |
| 13:27:29 | copper | how do I get git to 280a0eb? |
| 13:30:04 | [Saint] | git checkout 280a0eb |
| 13:32:06 | copper | thanks |
| 13:33:17 | [Saint] | 'git checkout master' to get back (otherwise rebase will complain about not being on a branch). |
| 13:34:21 | [Saint] | I assume there's a much easier way, but when I need to do this myself I usually just pop any local changes into a stash and do the above then pop the stash back. |
| 13:34:47 | copper | doesn't work in the sim (ipod video target) |
| 13:35:37 | copper | also crashes with %?C() |
| 13:35:42 | copper | also crashes with %?C<|> |
| 13:35:48 | [Saint] | Well, bum. That was my best educated guess at a good version to try. |
| 13:36:22 | [Saint] | I don't think I have a single FM enabled target (that doesn't require hardware I don't have) |
| 13:37:09 | [Saint] | Oh, sorry, I do. I might have a look at some stage on-device. |
| 13:38:39 | | Quit jlbiasini (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 13:38:56 | | Join jlbiasini [0] (~metaphysi@dispo-82-250-38-154.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 13:43:41 | copper | nice, 12862df crashes with just the album art (no %?C<>) |
| 13:51:27 | copper | I wish I could build rockbox without the fuckton of plugins |
| 13:54:43 | copper | [Saint]: also, please document the %?if() +1 thing in the manual |
| 13:55:16 | | Quit melmothX (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 13:55:25 | jlbiasini | pamaury: ping? |
| 13:58:03 | | Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@213.37.48.47.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 13:59:45 | pixelma | copper: I wouldn't document bugs in the manual... |
| 14:00 |
| 14:02:10 | copper | pixelma: except it's already pretty much documented like that |
| 14:02:20 | copper | "Examples: " |
| 14:02:23 | copper | "You are in the %?cs<Main menu|WPS|Recording screen|FM Radio screen>" |
| 14:02:27 | copper | "%?if(%cs, =, 2)<This is the WPS>" |
| 14:02:54 | copper | anyway, *something* needs to be fixed |
| 14:04:56 | copper | gah |
| 14:05:07 | copper | I've dealt with too many Rockbox bugs in the past few days |
| 14:05:15 | copper | makes me feel nauseous |
| 14:13:18 | | Quit jlbiasini (Quit: jlbiasini) |
| 14:13:35 | [Saint] | the "bug" is the odd mix of 0 and 1 based starting points. |
| 14:13:50 | | Join jlbiasini [0] (~metaphysi@dispo-82-250-38-154.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 14:14:22 | [Saint] | also, yadda yadda, community driven, get what you paid for, etc. |
| 14:19:21 | copper | [Saint]: %?if(14, =, 15) that returns true is definitely not a feature :P |
| 14:19:44 | [Saint] | Nor was I implying it was. |
| 14:19:52 | copper | you air quoted the word "bug" |
| 14:19:55 | copper | I saw you |
| 14:20:47 | copper | ooh |
| 14:20:48 | [Saint] | Well, its not so much a bug as a weird event that happens due to the mixing of 0 and 1 as starting points for some tags. |
| 14:21:15 | [Saint] | Not so much a bug as unintended consequences. It technically behaving correctly, even if correctly is broken. |
| 14:21:45 | [Saint] | (If I am indeed understanding the underlying cause correctly, which I believe myself to be) |
| 14:31:38 | pamaury | jlbiasini: pong |
| 14:31:53 | jlbiasini | A few different stuff |
| 14:32:53 | jlbiasini | first g#525 should be ready for pushing |
| 14:32:57 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #525 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/525 : [Fuze+][Touchpad] Improve touchpad power managment by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/25/525/10) |
| 14:33:54 | jlbiasini | I only renamed touchpad_enable(bool en) to touchdev_enable because it's has to be the same function for all touchpad/touchscreen devices |
| 14:35:03 | jlbiasini | second: acctually touchpad/touchscreen that have button_hold implement the touch disable at driver level which mean there isn't any additional work needed for them |
| 14:35:34 | jlbiasini | actually the f+ is the only touchpad target with softlock |
| 14:36:02 | jlbiasini | so appart from touchscreen target there is nothing to do |
| 14:37:46 | | Join jlbiasini_ [0] (~metaphysi@lns-bzn-28-82-250-130-149.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 14:37:50 | jlbiasini_ | i updated g#569 and g#532 to take those subtilities into account |
| 14:37:53 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #569 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/569 : Disable touch device on softlock. by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/69/569/4) |
| 14:37:54 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #532 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/532 : [touchscreen] touchdev_enable implementation by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/32/532/5) |
| 14:39:25 | jlbiasini_ | third: on target with button_hold the desactivation of touch device while locked is not optional. It is worth make a setting for it on softlock then? |
| 14:40:42 | jlbiasini_ | pamaury: ^ |
| 14:40:55 | pamaury | why is touchdev deactivation handled at the driver level on targets with hold ? |
| 14:41:00 | | Join krabador [0] (~krabador_@unaffiliated/krabador) |
| 14:41:34 | | Quit jlbiasini (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 14:41:37 | jlbiasini_ | because as hold is a specific buttun the driver can know directly if the device is locked or not |
| 14:42:19 | jlbiasini_ | on softlock hold is just a mapped action like any other so it's up to action to set it... |
| 14:42:32 | pamaury | hum, I don't really like this idea, one might prefer not to disable to touchdev so it acts as a softlock |
| 14:42:48 | pamaury | I mean that softlock and hardlock should be handled the same and have a setting |
| 14:43:32 | jlbiasini_ | well it means rewriting all drivers then... |
| 14:43:54 | pamaury | why so ? |
| 14:44:20 | jlbiasini_ | I meant all button driver |
| 14:44:21 | pamaury | iirc hold is not handled at the driver level |
| 14:44:29 | jlbiasini_ | it is |
| 14:45:02 | jlbiasini_ | at least on the touchpad device I saw (gigabeat-fx and zvm) |
| 14:46:40 | pamaury | hum, it appears you are right |
| 14:46:46 | jlbiasini_ | if the button lock is set it return button_none else it probes the device |
| 14:47:13 | pamaury | but still, we can handle it in action.c because it monitors button_hold state I thik |
| 14:47:31 | pamaury | ie on the first non-hold to hold transition, disable and on the first hold to non-hold transition, enable back |
| 14:48:06 | pamaury | damn, action.c doesn't track hold state :( |
| 14:48:16 | | Join melmothX [0] (~melmoth@unaffiliated/melmothx) |
| 14:48:37 | pamaury | You see the problem I guess: if we are to make this a setting, it should be handled by apps/ and not firmware/ |
| 14:50:10 | jlbiasini_ | well the way to do it wright is to have all button_lock rewrite as extra key, then mapped as soft lock |
| 14:50:22 | jlbiasini_ | *right |
| 14:51:17 | pamaury | not a good idea, it will be very error prone. I think a best idea would be to have action.c monitor hold state using button_hold() |
| 14:52:51 | | Join sciopath [0] (~sciop@yer91-2-82-237-54-159.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:53:12 | jlbiasini_ | question is: why is there a difference between hold and soft then? If this was just a matter of not having a specific button on new target, the whole stuff should have been rewrited with the implementation of softlock. If it wasn't made before, the question is why should WE do it? |
| 14:53:14 | pamaury | ie next to the #ifndef HAS_BUTTON_HOLD, add #else and handle the hard lock case and maybe handle it has softlock ? |
| 14:53:45 | pamaury | I guess because on some target you can't even know you are locked |
| 14:54:00 | pamaury | ie lock is a switch which disable all buttons in hardware and don't even let you know |
| 14:54:21 | jlbiasini_ | that make sense |
| 14:54:31 | pamaury | just a guess and also because it's simpler and because hard lock has a well defined behaviour: not key is active while hard lock |
| 14:54:51 | pamaury | this is unclear with softlock: you don't want to enable it in all contexts and maybe allow some keys to go through |
| 14:55:02 | pamaury | and finally because it was implemented by different people :) |
| 14:56:08 | pamaury | I agree that now it doesn't seem optimal |
| 14:56:27 | jlbiasini_ | so we rewrite only target with touchpad, isn't it? |
| 14:57:27 | pamaury | we don't even have to, do we ? For targets with softlock, your patches (+ a setting) should do. And for targest with a hard lock, well maybe we can leave this for another commit and handle it the same way in action.c |
| 14:57:36 | jlbiasini_ | well and touchscreen if there are |
| 14:58:13 | pamaury | touchscreen will be handled together with touchpad right ? |
| 14:58:29 | jlbiasini_ | that was the first plan |
| 14:58:29 | pamaury | so what actually matters is softlock vs hardlock ? |
| 14:59:17 | jlbiasini_ | there might also be touchscreen device with hard coded keyhold in their driver... |
| 14:59:26 | jlbiasini_ | yes |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:24 | | Join melmothX_ [0] (~melmoth@8-77.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 15:00:31 | jlbiasini_ | the problem is I dnn't have a touchscreen device to test it and I have no idea of all the touscreen device/with or without softlock |
| 15:00:34 | | Quit melmothX_ (Client Quit) |
| 15:00:53 | pamaury | so my plan is: keep "Disable touch device on softlock." but add a setting for it. Then keep "touchdev_enable implementation" (i'll test it). |
| 15:01:00 | jlbiasini_ | And I'm also concern about android touchscreen that seems to be handle a different way |
| 15:01:02 | pamaury | And finally add one more patch for hardlock |
| 15:01:34 | pamaury | I think android is currently handled as a normal touchscreen target, just a "fake" driver |
| 15:02:36 | jlbiasini_ | Yes that also what I tought we start with only touchpad and once it works ont touchscreen we add a || defined touchscreen to the condition |
| 15:02:49 | pamaury | yes, make sense |
| 15:04:01 | jlbiasini_ | so I just have to correct zvm and gigabeat fx, isn't it? I mean not the whole button_hold target? please say yes! :/ |
| 15:04:01 | copper | pamaury: did you commit your radio powerup fix? |
| 15:04:05 | copper | er |
| 15:04:07 | pamaury | yes |
| 15:04:09 | copper | I could just check it out myself |
| 15:04:50 | pamaury | jlbiasini_: I think so yes, you have to implement touchdev_enable for them if I understand the whole thing |
| 15:05:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:05:04 | copper | pamaury: were you ever able to display radio art in the fms? |
| 15:05:32 | jlbiasini_ | ok, this doable... see you later then, I have work to do!!! :D |
| 15:05:40 | jlbiasini_ | *is doable |
| 15:06:01 | pamaury | copper: no idea, what is radio art ? |
| 15:06:36 | jlbiasini_ | copper: pamaury is not exactly the them guy ;) |
| 15:06:42 | jlbiasini_ | *theme |
| 15:07:11 | copper | pamaury: a jpg file in /.rockbox/fmpresets with the same name as the current FM preset |
| 15:07:12 | pamaury | Exactly. I'm more like a robot when using an mp3 player: play/pause, prev and next. Why do we have a screen ? ;) |
| 15:07:33 | pamaury | ah no, I didn't know we had such a feature |
| 15:07:38 | jlbiasini_ | hahah :D |
| 15:07:43 | pamaury | cool feature though |
| 15:07:45 | pamaury | :) |
| 15:08:02 | copper | except that it doesn't work! |
| 15:08:07 | jlbiasini_ | indeed I didn't knew either :D |
| 15:08:38 | pamaury | you better ask JdGordon| I think |
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| 15:11:09 | | Quit sciopath (Quit: Leaving) |
| 15:11:21 | | Join sciopath [0] (~sciop@yer91-2-82-237-54-159.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:00 |
| 16:11:54 | jlbiasini_ | pamaury: problem with the zen vision m: there is a button hold and a button unhold |
| 16:12:47 | jlbiasini_ | action.c cannot handle that directly |
| 16:14:47 | | Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:18:31 | jlbiasini_ | ha ok I have to implement button_hold like on the gige fx |
| 16:37:01 | | Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 16:46:57 | | Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@shared02.balt01.cd.2g2u.net) |
| 16:49:14 | jlbiasini_ | pamaury: unless we map both unhold and hold to action_keylock (which is ugly) we won't have softlocks on the zen vision mXX |
| 16:51:43 | lebellium | There is some work on the ZV:M port again? I thought it was inactive |
| 16:52:18 | jlbiasini_ | well we implement some general function for touch device |
| 16:52:38 | jlbiasini_ | ok so I guess I can drop this one! thanks |
| 17:00 |
| 17:01:20 | | Join Jason700 [0] (~5c04d0bd@www.haxx.se) |
| 17:01:24 | lebellium | looks like there is still no sound on ZV:M and the port looks inactive so I wouln't bother much with it |
| 17:01:36 | Jason700 | Good afternoon all |
| 17:02:29 | JdGordon| | pamaury: ? |
| 17:02:52 | jlbiasini_ | lebellium: ok |
| 17:03:07 | pamaury | JdGordon|: copper had a problem with radio art, I thought you could help him |
| 17:03:15 | Jason700 | how is rockbox for the iriver h100? |
| 17:03:19 | jlbiasini_ | pamaury: problem exactly similar with gigabeat fx |
| 17:03:24 | Jason700 | just found my old h100 40gb in my drawer |
| 17:04:24 | jlbiasini_ | pamaury: perhaps I didn't understood exactly what I was suppose to do with the button_hold target, could you rephrase it? |
| 17:05:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:05:49 | | Quit jlbiasini_ (Quit: jlbiasini_) |
| 17:05:54 | pamaury | jlbiasini: I don't understand your problem, can you explain it |
| 17:06:09 | pamaury | damn he is gone |
| 17:08:53 | lebellium | Jason700: it works fine |
| 17:09:34 | | Join jlbiasini [0] (~metaphysi@lns-bzn-28-82-250-130-149.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 17:09:48 | Jason700 | just haven't used rockbox in aaaagggeeessss since my Jukebox Recorder stopped working many many years ago |
| 17:09:51 | Jason700 | that was my first MP3 player |
| 17:10:44 | lebellium | but most likely your H100 battery is pretty dead |
| 17:11:04 | jlbiasini | pamaury: just a little connection problem. Question what should I do on the gigabeat fx driver ie button_hold target that disable directly the touchpad at driver level? |
| 17:11:23 | pamaury | jlbiasini: here is my idea for button_hold: http://paste.pm/98m.c |
| 17:13:11 | jlbiasini | ok but I don't get the point of doing that as anyway the driver will cut it at driver level |
| 17:14:22 | pamaury | If you want to do it at the hardware level, I would prefer that we have some wrapper called to manage to setting then |
| 17:15:08 | pamaury | ie add setting to apps/ which calls some function in firmware/ like touchdev_set_hold_state(bool disable_touchdev); |
| 17:15:32 | pamaury | and then a generic touchdev_do_hold(bool hold) which calls touchdev_enable if the setting requires so and don't do that otherwise |
| 17:15:43 | jlbiasini | if we want to operate at action level we could put your code at driver level and define a new key |
| 17:16:10 | jlbiasini | on change |
| 17:16:16 | pamaury | finally I think it's better at the driver level: I check and action.c does a log of magic when there is no key pressed, I'm unsure that would work |
| 17:16:26 | pamaury | *checked, lot |
| 17:16:58 | | Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 17:18:08 | jlbiasini | ok so the point is to have a setting for those target too |
| 17:19:13 | Jason700 | My H140 is still working well, just ain't used it in ages since I got an iPod |
| 17:19:15 | pamaury | sure, we want the same setting for everyone, wait a second, I have some code |
| 17:20:45 | jlbiasini | pamaury: the point of having a key for it is to reuse the softlock mecasism unstead of rewriting the same code in a has_button_hold but has_touchpad exception |
| 17:22:44 | pamaury | I don't like the idea of the fake key, that means messing with keymaps and action.c, we already have virtual keys and I think it's a mess |
| 17:22:46 | pamaury | jlbiasini: http://paste.pm/98n.js |
| 17:22:59 | pamaury | this way that's one line per new driver |
| 17:25:13 | pamaury | what do you think, does that look ok ? |
| 17:35:18 | jlbiasini | pamaury: let me check if I understood that correctly: touchdev_disable_dev_on_hold is to set the setting, touchdev_do_hold check changes on hold status and perform change in locking touchpad if needed. |
| 17:35:29 | jlbiasini | ok I got it |
| 17:35:38 | pamaury | yes exactly |
| 17:35:55 | jlbiasini | and where could be somewhere.c? |
| 17:36:03 | jlbiasini | *should |
| 17:36:41 | copper | JdGordon|: are you able to display radio art in the fms? |
| 17:36:47 | jlbiasini | the good new is that gigabeat-fx is actually the only target to updae |
| 17:36:53 | pamaury | good question, either add touchdev.c file (and move default touchdev_enable from touchscreen.c to touchdev.c), or somewhere else |
| 17:37:02 | pamaury | I think touchdev.c is better |
| 17:37:17 | jlbiasini | in apps? |
| 17:37:47 | pamaury | in firmware |
| 17:37:53 | jlbiasini | ok |
| 17:38:19 | jlbiasini | thanks very much those explaination that is much more clear now |
| 17:39:09 | jlbiasini | I have to go but if you have other tips/recommandation go on I will let xchat running... see you all later |
| 17:41:45 | JdGordon| | copper: yes |
| 17:42:49 | copper | JdGordon|: with what target / build / theme? |
| 17:43:02 | JdGordon| | any target with a radio will allow it |
| 17:43:11 | copper | no I mean it doesn't seem to be working right now |
| 17:43:27 | JdGordon| | it might be disabled because it was causing data aborts |
| 17:43:41 | copper | ok that's what I'm asking |
| 17:43:46 | copper | is it supposed to be working, or not? |
| 17:46:16 | JdGordon| | dunno |
| 17:46:53 | copper | loading artwork and then using %?C<true|false> crashes the sim |
| 17:46:58 | copper | iPod Video and Fuze+ |
| 17:47:11 | copper | loading artwork only (in the fms) doesn't work |
| 17:47:18 | copper | the artwork doesn't show |
| 17:47:24 | copper | tried jpg and bmp files |
| 17:47:51 | | Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@shared02.balt01.cd.2g2u.net) |
| 17:48:23 | copper | ok, here's the latest versions of my themes: http://outpost.fr/rockbox/Googley-FuzePlus.png and http://outpost.fr/rockbox/Googley-Classic.png |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:58:28 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision ee55acd, 217 builds, 19 clients. |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:05:06 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 19:05:42 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision ce714cb, 217 builds, 19 clients. |
| 19:12:25 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Build round completed after 403 seconds. |
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| 19:58:49 | copper | lebellium: a small gripe with samsung-like for the Fuze+: it doesn't display the preset name |
| 19:59:57 | copper | (on the fms) |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:19 | copper | or does it prioritize the RDS name? |
| 20:49:41 | | Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 20:50:54 | lebellium | copper: it prioritize the RDS name |
| 20:51:00 | lebellium | if no RDS, it should display the preset name instead |
| 20:55:04 | copper | I do the opposite |
| 20:55:26 | copper | I don't trust companies not to include crap in there |
| 20:55:28 | lebellium | I love RDS but I don't listen to FM radio. That's maybe why :D |
| 20:55:32 | copper | like botched CD-Text |
| 20:55:58 | copper | official CD-text (straight from the recording company!) is like a really bad MP3 from some shady torrent site |
| 20:56:11 | copper | with lots of typos, all caps, etc |
| 20:56:27 | copper | I display RDS "information" but they put crap in there too |
| 20:56:58 | lebellium | I've always been fascinated by RDS technoloy. Getting text info over the air is so amazing. That's why I prioritize RDS. But as I said, I almost never listen to FM radio so I don't know if this choice makes sense :D |
| 20:57:17 | [Saint] | Oh, yes, indeed. RDS here can very rarely actually tell you what station you're on. |
| 20:57:23 | [Saint] | Its mostly advertising. |
| 20:57:36 | lebellium | You have RDS in Australia?! |
| 20:57:51 | [Saint] | I'm in Australia? |
| 20:57:58 | lebellium | New Zealand? |
| 20:58:02 | [Saint] | (also, why would that be amazing, even if I were?) |
| 20:58:15 | [Saint] | RDS is *old* technology. |
| 20:58:37 | lebellium | RDS only exists in Europe. There is another variant of RDS in the USA and Canada. That's why that would be amazing |
| 20:59:13 | [Saint] | That is so wrong its not even funny. |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:10 | [Saint] | I'm sorry. I know of no other way to put that. Its wildly incorrect. |
| 21:00:37 | lebellium | then correct it |
| 21:00:43 | lebellium | where do you live and where is RDs available |
| 21:00:51 | [Saint] | I did. You're wrong. |
| 21:01:00 | [Saint] | I live in New Zealand, we have RDs. |
| 21:01:13 | [Saint] | We have had for many, many, many years. |
| 21:01:24 | lebellium | Good to know |
| 21:02:03 | [Saint] | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_using_the_Radio_Data_System_in_New_Zealand |
| 21:02:22 | * | copper just updated the FM preset file for his town, on the Rockbox Wiki |
| 21:03:15 | copper | some stations were bought and ELIMINATED |
| 21:03:28 | copper | also, dupes |
| 21:04:12 | lebellium | is there somewhere a list of all countries using RDS? |
| 21:05:09 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:05:51 | copper | I'm still waiting for digital radio |
| 21:06:04 | copper | with shitty 24kbps streams (or something) |
| 21:06:22 | copper | seems like that never caught on in France |
| 21:07:29 | | Quit krabador (Quit: Sto andando via) |
| 21:10:42 | lebellium | ok, RDS is also used in Australia |
| 21:11:27 | lebellium | I'm now wondering why Samsung has always only enabled it in EU region code on all players... |
| 21:13:01 | [Saint] | "Because they're dicks" |
| 21:14:20 | lebellium | that's not new |
| 21:14:26 | lebellium | but I was still in hope |
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| 21:17:09 | | Quit bluebrother (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 21:17:17 | | Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 21:18:27 | lebellium | actually I see on the Samsung NZ website that they only shipped CHN (China) and XSA (Asutralia) players in NZ. No specific NZ models. Sounds like they don't care about that country :) |
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| 21:19:01 | | Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother) |
| 21:20:30 | [Saint] | When you can set the FM banding independantly, this is of little consequence. |
| 21:20:52 | lebellium | sure |
| 21:22:53 | [Saint] | And a DAP that doesn't offer this, regardless of the set locale, is one doomed to failure, IMO. |
| 21:23:08 | [Saint] | Travelling? Ha! No radio for you! :) |
| 21:23:20 | lebellium | indeed |
| 21:23:58 | lebellium | That's what Sony does. I have a Japanese A855. I can't change the language (not even get english) and can't change the FM frequency to Europe |
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| 21:56:34 | lebellium | pixelma: I just bought a 2nd Archos Ondio FM 128 on ebay UK. I hope this one has the other FM tuner (Philips chip) :) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:13:53 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
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| 22:23:40 | bertrik | lebellium: if it comes without the wanted tuner, perhaps you can buy it separately and solder it in yourself |
| 22:23:54 | jhMikeS | Think I should push g570 or is anyway utterly committed to the idea of a scroller thread? |
| 22:23:57 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #570 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/570 : Remove scroll thread and power scrollers when waiting for buttons. by Michael Sevakis (changes/70/570/2) |
| 22:24:09 | jhMikeS | s/anyway/anyone |
| 22:25:18 | [Saint] | jhMikeS: you'd want to poke both kugel and JdGordon| here |
| 22:25:44 | * | jhMikeS thought it said "JdGordoni" :\ |
| 22:26:01 | [Saint] | I would add both of them as reviewers, were it myself. |
| 22:26:13 | jhMikeS | possible good idea detected |
| 22:26:57 | [Saint] | Is there a list somewhere of "Stuff People Know Stuff About"? |
| 22:27:06 | [Saint] | If not, would such a list be useful? |
| 22:27:24 | [Saint] | A "Who should I ask about N?" list. |
| 22:27:26 | gevaerts | There is |
| 22:27:32 | gevaerts | It's probably rather outdated though |
| 22:27:38 | [Saint] | Ooooh, is it vaguely current? :) |
| 22:27:41 | [Saint] | Aha. |
| 22:27:46 | gevaerts | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/KnowledgeMap |
| 22:27:57 | [Saint] | Excellent, thank you. |
| 22:28:19 | jhMikeS | Only gevaerts knew about the knowedge map |
| 22:28:42 | gevaerts | :) |
| 22:28:57 | * | [Saint] adds "Knowledge Maps: Frank Gevaerts" |
| 22:29:12 | [Saint] | ALso - Whoooooaaaaaa that is old! |
| 22:29:37 | [Saint] | User Interface & WPS code - Jonathan Gordon (JdGordon, Not WPS code) |
| 22:31:01 | * | [Saint] is rather surprised to see that there are no entires for either coffee or beer |
| 22:31:08 | [Saint] | Clearly this is an oversight. |
| 22:31:55 | jhMikeS | who goes in for hard drugs? :) |
| 22:32:07 | [Saint] | <−− |
| 22:33:28 | lebellium | bertrik: Not sure I have the skills and stuff for that. Otherwise I could also apply the backlight mod^^ |
| 22:34:05 | [Saint] | The backlight mod is really trivial. |
| 22:34:25 | * | bertrik doesn't even know what the backlight mod is |
| 22:34:54 | jhMikeS | rtfkm |
| 22:35:13 | lebellium | bertrik: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/OndioBacklight |
| 22:38:01 | [Saint] | It certainly looks intimidating, but the process is rather simple. |
| 22:38:50 | lebellium | if you already did similar things before. I |
| 22:39:01 | lebellium | I'm not even sure I have soldering stuff at home |
| 22:40:29 | [Saint] | You could also do a less effective side-lit mod too. |
| 22:41:12 | lebellium | hum that would look like a 80's backlighted casio watch? |
| 22:41:46 | [Saint] | If by that you mean "good lighting around the edges, but largely useless", then "yes". :) |
| 22:42:12 | lebellium | exactly :D |
| 22:44:03 | lebellium | "Assembly: It requires SMT soldering equipment and skills, a very limiting factor, besides the required components. " |
| 22:44:32 | lebellium | seriously, I can't :( Nobody in Europe willing to mod my Ondio? :D |
| 22:44:53 | [Saint] | This *was* also written in ~2005ish, iirc. |
| 22:45:02 | [Saint] | At a time when that was actually reasonably true. |
| 22:45:33 | lebellium | that's the difference regarding equipment and skills between 2005 and 2013? |
| 22:45:42 | lebellium | what's* |
| 22:46:01 | | Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 22:46:35 | jhMikeS | you had 8 years to practice them? |
| 22:46:43 | [Saint] | Hahahaha |
| 22:47:30 | lebellium | good point :D |
| 22:47:41 | [Saint] | Reflow/soldering stations and heat guns weren't exactly commonplace at that time. |
| 22:48:36 | jhMikeS | I've done SMT with a regular iron. just be careful. |
| 22:48:36 | [Saint] | Only an expert, or serious hobbiest had such equipment, at least around me. |
| 22:50:14 | * | lebellium looking for a skilled guy around here |
| 22:50:23 | lebellium | pamaury: do you have the stuff? :D |
| 22:50:46 | pamaury | depends for what |
| 22:50:53 | lebellium | for this backlight mod |
| 22:51:35 | pamaury | not really, i'm not an electrical hacker, haven 't soldered things in years |
| 22:51:54 | lebellium | arf |
| 22:52:07 | pamaury | sorry :( |
| 22:52:30 | lebellium | I don't know any other skilled Frenchy here |
| 22:53:21 | pamaury | neither do I actually, i know mostly theoretical computer scientists :) |
| 22:53:38 | bertrik | I think funman nearly took a finger off, trying to create a fuze scrollwheel out of a broomstick :) |
| 22:54:33 | jhMikeS | a witches wheel |
| 22:55:30 | [Saint] | Oh, yes. I remember that. |
| 22:55:35 | [Saint] | That was a laugh. |
| 22:55:38 | [Saint] | ...shit. |
| 22:55:45 | [Saint] | Not for funman, of course. |
| 22:55:56 | * | [Saint] suddenly feels guilty |
| 22:56:02 | | Nick [Saint] is now known as [Sinner] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) |
| 22:57:37 | | Nick [Sinner] is now known as [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) |
| 22:58:45 | | Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:14 | * | funman counts his fingers |
| 23:01:39 | bertrik | maybe I exagerated a bit |
| 23:05:12 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:05:30 | lebellium | ah yes you live in France funman right? You're the guy! |
| 23:05:32 | lebellium | :D |
| 23:09:10 | funman | lebellium: i have not soldered anything in years and i was pretty bad at it |
| 23:15:12 | lebellium | arf |
| 23:15:18 | lebellium | is that a typical French problem? :D |
| 23:30:28 | [Saint] | ..if only you could solder with cheese and wine. |
| 23:30:36 | [Saint] | You'd be experts. |
| 23:30:58 | [Saint] | <insert other inaccurate French stereotypes here> |
| 23:35:51 | | Join jlbiasini [0] (~metaphysi@lns-bzn-45-82-65-183-31.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 23:43:02 | | Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@shared02.balt01.cd.2g2u.net) |
| 23:44:54 | pixelma | IIRC XavierGr or the other greek guy, Genre9mp3, tried the Ondio backlight with LEDs mod |
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