| 00:00:52 | jlbiasini | pamaury: I solved my compilation problem on gigabeat-fx on g#569 |
| 00:00:54 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #569 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/569 : [touch devices]Disable touch device on softlock/keyhold. by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/69/569/13) |
| 00:06:34 | jlbiasini | kugel: I updated g#518 |
| 00:06:36 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #518 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/518 : plugins/stopwatch: PLA integration by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/18/518/5) |
| 00:07:03 | gevaerts | jlbiasini: the setting is now there, but if the new setting is not enabled, all buttons still work if hold is on |
| 00:07:43 | | Quit Water (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]) |
| 00:07:49 | * | gevaerts isn't convinced that the gigabeat wants this setting at all... |
| 00:08:05 | gevaerts | Sure, it's technically a touchpad, but rockbox uses it as five buttons |
| 00:10:34 | jlbiasini | gevaerts: the problem has to do with it having a BUTTON_HOLD that need to be change if there is a touchpad |
| 00:10:44 | gevaerts | Why? |
| 00:10:50 | jlbiasini | I will still work on that |
| 00:11:13 | kugel | is anyone else wonderign why it's all called touchdev_* instead of just touchpad_*? |
| 00:11:47 | jlbiasini | because we want to unify the way touscreen and touchpad get handled on hold |
| 00:12:02 | gevaerts | That's silly IMHO |
| 00:12:06 | jlbiasini | either softlocks or holdkeys |
| 00:13:08 | kugel | jlbiasini: don't add english strings to non-english langs |
| 00:13:18 | kugel | this way they won't appear as untranslated |
| 00:13:25 | gevaerts | To a user, there is *zero* difference between using a gigabeat F or any target that doesn't have these touch things |
| 00:13:33 | jlbiasini | I was of the opinion keylocks should stay keyhold (ie disable touch on driver level, but pamaury insisted on having a setting on all touch devices either soft or hold |
| 00:13:59 | jlbiasini | kuel: ok thanks |
| 00:14:24 | * | gevaerts doesn't follow any of this |
| 00:14:43 | jlbiasini | gevearts actually there is: the gigabeat does have a sensitivity_setting |
| 00:15:28 | gevaerts | So is that a reason to suddenly totally change how hold works on it? |
| 00:15:35 | gevaerts | Because that's what you're proposing |
| 00:15:43 | | Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:16:14 | jlbiasini | no I didn't agree on that but I implement it because pamaury said we have to... |
| 00:16:23 | gevaerts | What your patch does right now on the gigabeat F (and probably the X) is adding a setting that makes hold work |
| 00:16:29 | gevaerts | In other words, it *breaks* hold |
| 00:16:46 | jlbiasini | I know I want to make it work |
| 00:17:07 | gevaerts | So what *exactly* is supposed to happen? |
| 00:17:27 | jlbiasini | Actually it is meant to turn holdkey device in softkey device if they have touchpad or touchscreen |
| 00:17:46 | gevaerts | I have no idea what that means in practice |
| 00:19:07 | jlbiasini | it means that unstead of locking touchpad at driver level (a holdkey has a physical buttun to lock key, that the driver can check directly and silent the touchpad if it's lock) |
| 00:19:27 | jlbiasini | it should lock it in action.c |
| 00:19:39 | gevaerts | Right, so *nothing* should change for the user? |
| 00:19:51 | jlbiasini | no |
| 00:20:00 | gevaerts | So why the extra setting? |
| 00:21:45 | jlbiasini | the whole point of changing that lock mecanism is to have a setting that let us choose whether we want to disable the touchpad or not while key are locked to avoid lcd refresh |
| 00:22:05 | gevaerts | *what* lcd refresh? |
| 00:22:59 | gevaerts | On touchscreen devices I can see the lcd being related, and on softlock devices maybe as well, but how on earth is LCD related to this on devices with a physical hold switch? |
| 00:23:47 | jlbiasini | on gigabeat f there none because the touchpad get silent at driver level. We want it for the fuzeplus. But it was pamaury idea that for consistency reason it should be the same on all touchpad devices |
| 00:24:05 | jlbiasini | either soft or hold |
| 00:24:21 | gevaerts | That's just fundamentally *wrong*! |
| 00:25:04 | gevaerts | You're proposing a setting that (I'm still not sure here) either does *nothing at all*, or *breaks* the hold feature |
| 00:25:05 | jlbiasini | I won't fight for it because my opinion was to leave all hold target cutting their touchpad at driver level (and less work for me) |
| 00:25:37 | gevaerts | Where you disable passing the events is *not* the issue |
| 00:25:52 | jlbiasini | well when fonctionnal it would just add the choice between disable or locked |
| 00:26:19 | jlbiasini | pamaury: could you help me here? |
| 00:26:27 | gevaerts | And what exactly is the difference between inactive buttons and inactive buttins supposed to be? |
| 00:26:45 | kugel | jlbiasini: there's something to consider: hardware hold buttons work anywhere |
| 00:26:51 | kugel | softhold only in the wps and fms |
| 00:27:38 | jlbiasini | right +1 |
| 00:28:57 | kugel | how do you unlock the fuze+? |
| 00:29:10 | jlbiasini | softlock |
| 00:29:40 | gevaerts | As far as I understand it, this setting on the gigabeat F means "Do you want to deactivate buttons by disabling generating the button events, or by ignoring the button events?" |
| 00:30:28 | jlbiasini | not ignoring them, returning keyhold message |
| 00:31:19 | * | gevaerts is very strongly opposed to this change |
| 00:31:22 | kugel | jlbiasini: what is the softlock button (if the touchpad is disabled)? |
| 00:31:30 | jlbiasini | the main issue is on f+ that those message kill the battery down so we want a setting to kill that |
| 00:31:42 | jlbiasini | power button |
| 00:31:58 | gevaerts | jlbiasini: those messages ARE NOT THERE on the gigabeat |
| 00:33:17 | jlbiasini | gevaerts: yeah its broken, because my implementation is wrong. I don't have any keyhold target so I cannot test what I do |
| 00:33:39 | kugel | gevaerts: it doesnt seem the patch actually affects the FX |
| 00:33:58 | gevaerts | If you want to fix softlock, go ahead (I don't have a softlock device, so I don't know the issues there). If you need to change some infrastructure overall to achieve that cleanly, fine, do so. But I don't see ANY reason AT ALL to change *behaviour* on non-softlock devices |
| 00:34:02 | gevaerts | kugel: it does |
| 00:34:16 | kugel | because it defines HAVE_BUTTON_HOLD and the new logic is within !defiend(HAVE_BUTTON_HOLD) |
| 00:34:34 | gevaerts | Well, that's possibly why it doesn't work as intended |
| 00:34:40 | kugel | oh wait, there's || |
| 00:34:50 | gevaerts | But that doesn't change the fact that "work as intended" means "broken" in this case |
| 00:35:28 | kugel | jlbiasini: I agree with gevaerts; a hardware lock button is superior to softlock and your patch means a regression |
| 00:36:23 | kugel | I suggest changing the #ifdefs so that it's not used if HAVE_BUTTON_HOLD is defined (so that you could enable the functionality on the FX by not defining it) |
| 00:37:08 | pamaury | sorry I made myself unclear, the setting is intended for softlock only, I must have been tired when I said so, sorry :( The setting is to choose the behaviour of the touchpad when softlock is on: should it light the screen and display you a nice "button is locked message", or should the touchpad be plain disable |
| 00:37:48 | jlbiasini | ok then let's cut the whole keyhold out |
| 00:38:06 | pamaury | so basically do you want the current behaviour or do you want a phone like behaviour (since virtually all phones do this now) |
| 00:38:31 | jlbiasini | this is very complicated to explain to pehraps I got confused when I tried to explain the different case |
| 00:39:27 | pamaury | the complicated comes from the fact that it should apply both to touchpad and touchscreen, at least that's my opinion |
| 00:39:31 | pamaury | *complication |
| 00:39:46 | jlbiasini | pamaury: the setting is fine the think is just to have it on softlock and leave the keyhold target do want they do |
| 00:40:04 | pamaury | yes |
| 00:40:10 | pamaury | gevaerts: is that clear and okay to you ? |
| 00:41:23 | gevaerts | I think so |
| 00:41:45 | jlbiasini | ok so It's clear for me to |
| 00:42:28 | gevaerts | pamaury: as I said, I don't know much about softlock and its issues, so I don't have any opinions there, but if physical hold switch devices are unaffected (at least in behaviour, if there are under-the-hood changes that's probably fine) I'll leave that to you entirely |
| 00:43:32 | pamaury | ok, good; just so you know, the major annoyance of softlock is that each time to touch a touch button (ie very easily), screen lights up, this consumes a lot of battery and is very annoying |
| 00:46:09 | * | gevaerts nods |
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| 00:46:48 | jlbiasini | I keep thinking that we should change anything to keyhold target. They cut the touchpad at driver level that's not meant for optimisation. If it was really anoying that could be a limitation to turn around. But the way they work is just fine. Actually I am of the opinion that we don't even need a setting for that. touchdev should be disable on lock IMO |
| 00:47:21 | jlbiasini | *I keep thinking that we should't* :D |
| 00:47:45 | gevaerts | I agree there's no need for a setting there |
| 00:48:22 | gevaerts | And yes, ideally the device should be disabled (i.e. powered off) on hold, but I don't know if all devices support that |
| 00:48:42 | jlbiasini | <gevaerts |
| 00:49:17 | pamaury | I agree it should be default behaviour but that would mean changing the current bahviour without a way to go back, some users might find it useful |
| 00:49:52 | jlbiasini | one of the idea of pamaury on the patch is to implement a weak symbol function that make the touchdevice silent and let us redefine it a driver level if we have some power management support |
| 00:49:57 | pamaury | gevaerts: even devices cannot be powered off can filter events in software, so there is no excuse to no implement it ^^ |
| 00:50:10 | pamaury | jlbiasini: exactly |
| 00:50:29 | jlbiasini | actually this is already in the patch |
| 00:50:47 | gevaerts | pamaury: presumably that's what they do now... |
| 00:50:54 | jlbiasini | we just have to cut the keyhold part |
| 00:51:01 | pamaury | jlbiasini: thanks |
| 00:51:11 | pamaury | ok I should go to bed, I'm too tired to say anything useful now |
| 00:51:23 | * | gevaerts too |
| 00:52:09 | pamaury | jlbiasini: I'll have some spare time tomorrow so don't hesitate to poke me when it's ready so I can commit it |
| 00:52:11 | jlbiasini | gevaerts: actually on the fuze+ we get 10% more batt by power down the touchpad |
| 00:52:51 | jlbiasini | pamaury: we cannot commit it before we test the generic touchdev_disable function on touschreen device |
| 00:54:28 | jlbiasini | I see no reason why it won't works but It's usually a very good criterium for me to know that something actually won't work |
| 00:55:11 | jlbiasini | And I'm going to bed too!! I'll will poke you tomorrow |
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| 01:30:04 | [Saint] | IS it too late to point out that softlock can be implemented on touchscreen devices with a touchscreen area? |
| 01:30:34 | [Saint] | I fell off the internet for a while, so I'm not sure if we're still doing this argument or not. :) |
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| 03:25:53 | wowaname | crap |
| 03:27:45 | wowaname | anyone online? |
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| 04:04:31 | wowaname | is it at all possible to display a progress bar under text?> |
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| 04:20:58 | JdGordon_ | wowaname: yes, but not easily |
| 04:21:13 | wowaname | :/ |
| 04:21:24 | wowaname | how hard would it be |
| 04:21:49 | JdGordon_ | yes |
| 04:21:55 | wowaname | >yes |
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| 07:42:09 | copper | [Saint] "But in the above, if I remove the blanking, same thing...fat grey line in the middle of the art." |
| 07:42:20 | copper | Did you file a bug report for it? |
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| 08:08:27 | copper | Do %Vl() viewports that never get loaded with %Vd() put any kind of strain on Rockbox? CPU / RAM / whatever? |
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| 11:48:51 | GodEater | they still exist as a structure in memory, so yes |
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| 15:15:42 | copper | I don't remember who was working on the theme site |
| 15:15:44 | copper | lebellium&searchtype=name">http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?searchtheme&searchword=lebellium&searchtype=name |
| 15:16:07 | copper | it occurs to me that the theme pages don't indicate what target the themes are for |
| 15:17:07 | copper | lebellium: I see that you chose not to display the album title on some targets, with the cover artwork taking all the space |
| 15:17:28 | copper | I find it rather strange, since you were vocal about displaying important information |
| 15:18:20 | copper | (I'm browsing the theme site to get new ideas) |
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| 15:21:15 | lebellium | some targets? only one. The Philips SA9200 that nobody uses :) And the album name displays. It's like 3s artist name then 3s album name (or something like that, I don't remember). When the YP-Z5 port is ready (same screen resolution), I'll rework this theme. But on portait themes I want full album art so sometimes it's a bit tricky |
| 15:22:25 | copper | yeah, full album art is tempting |
| 15:23:17 | lebellium | it really depends on the screen ratio |
| 15:23:22 | lebellium | for 240x320 no problem |
| 15:23:34 | copper | yeah |
| 15:23:36 | lebellium | but on 176x220 (E200) I had to cut off the album art |
| 15:23:43 | lebellium | the same for 128x160 |
| 15:23:58 | copper | do you actually use those DAPs? |
| 15:24:16 | lebellium | which ones? |
| 15:24:21 | copper | the tiny ones :D |
| 15:24:25 | amayer | copper: I am probably the one you are reffering to that is working on the themesite. ill add it to my notes about putting the target on searches where the target isnt specified |
| 15:24:32 | copper | amayer: ah, yes |
| 15:25:24 | copper | amayer: also, would you or anyone be opposed to allowing "meta themes" such as mine (i.e. one theme with two or more variants, that share graphical elements)? |
| 15:25:39 | copper | i.e. one zip file with all variants |
| 15:25:50 | lebellium | I never use the Philips SA9200 because of the touchpad. That's why I won't improve the theme until Rockbox is usable on YP-Z5. I sometimes use the E200 and C200. I never use Fuze+ and I use daily Clip+ and Clip Zip |
| 15:26:41 | amayer | I was thinking about that but I would say one "theme profile" for all the different colors. not all of them in one zip file |
| 15:26:57 | amayer | that would break the theme downloader in rockboxutil |
| 15:27:19 | amayer | they all need to be in seperate zip files but i was thinking about putting them all on the same page |
| 15:32:11 | copper | ah, yes, I see what you mean |
| 15:32:33 | copper | mostly my problem is that updating 12 themes at once is a drag |
| 15:33:03 | copper | especially since the uploader insists on asking for confirmation while losing the files that I uploaded via the first form |
| 15:33:16 | amayer | copper: for example you would make a theme page "googley classic" under ipod video and upload all 6 varients to that page |
| 15:33:17 | copper | it's a lot of clicking and fiddling |
| 15:33:32 | amayer | copper: that is one of the main things i am going to fix |
| 15:33:36 | copper | yes that would be nice, especially if I can upload everything at once |
| 15:33:50 | copper | I mean the 6 zip files and screenshot and all |
| 15:34:32 | copper | amayer: maybe you could allow for uploading a second zip file with only screenshots in it, with a standard nomenclature, like wps.png, sbs.png, fms.png, other01.png, other02.png, etc |
| 15:35:01 | copper | so that I could just zip the screenshots and upload a single file for them |
| 15:36:27 | copper | I'm able to script some repetitive tasks on my end, when dealing with the 6 variants |
| 15:38:05 | amayer | copper: thats an interesting idea |
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| 15:39:12 | copper | amayer: I think HTML5 allows for easy uploading of several files at once (see Google, Facebook, etc) but the zip file is an easier solution on your end, I think |
| 15:39:51 | amayer | zip would be capatable with more users browsers |
| 15:40:09 | amayer | if i would code up something in html5 i would also need to code up a fallback |
| 15:40:35 | copper | eh |
| 15:40:47 | copper | I have no idea what most people use these days |
| 15:41:16 | amayer | assume: IE 7 |
| 15:41:38 | copper | is that the stock browser in Windows Vista or something? |
| 15:41:52 | Torne | most people are on IE8+ by now |
| 15:42:56 | amayer | Torne: I guess my clients are just behind the times. when ever i dont check my html/css in IE 7 they call and complain because "something doenst look right" but i would guess most of the world is on IE8+ |
| 15:43:41 | Torne | well under 10% of IE users are on IE7 |
| 15:43:56 | Torne | there's 2-3x as many IE6 users :) |
| 15:44:04 | copper | you only need 1% to complain to make your life miserable ;) |
| 15:44:05 | Torne | but mostly in china |
| 15:44:21 | Torne | if you don't care about china then IE8 is mostly okay as a minimum |
| 15:44:34 | Torne | if you want it to work in china then you get to code for IE6 ;) |
| 15:50:01 | amayer | well ill make it compatable with IE 8 then. Ill have to check it at work where i can remote into a windows box. (hard to check in IE when you run 100% linux) |
| 15:50:24 | amayer | but there is a windows box in a closet at my work that i can remote into |
| 15:50:42 | Torne | 7 vs 8 doesn't make a lot of difference for compatibility generally anyway; unfortunately lots of stuff is still broken until 9 |
| 15:50:52 | Torne | (or 10) |
| 15:50:54 | Torne | (..or 11) |
| 15:57:44 | copper | is there a keybinding for locking the iPod Video sim? |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:41 | copper | simulating the lock switch |
| 16:01:09 | copper | capslock sounds like an appropriate key for that |
| 16:02:01 | | Quit Zagor (Quit: Clint excited) |
| 16:12:23 | [Saint] | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UiSimulator |
| 16:12:46 | [Saint] | Normally I would've pointed to the source, but I guess you wouldn't really appreciate that. |
| 16:13:40 | [Saint] | copper: ^ |
| 16:15:56 | copper | of course! |
| 16:15:59 | copper | thanks |
| 16:16:31 | [Saint] | I don't blame you, eh. |
| 16:16:42 | copper | amayer: also, you could add a download link on the theme page, that's labelled as such (it's not clear at all that one must click on the screenshots) |
| 16:16:45 | [Saint] | I did the same thing 4~5 years ago. |
| 16:16:53 | copper | did what? |
| 16:17:09 | amayer | copper: I already have that in my notes |
| 16:17:13 | copper | ok |
| 16:17:28 | [Saint] | When I looked at the source and saw it was "H" I was just like..."huh, dammit, makes sense...H for Hold". Whoops. |
| 16:17:55 | copper | he |
| 16:18:04 | copper | it doesn't actually lock anything in the sim though |
| 16:18:22 | [Saint] | I had spammed the keyboard back and forth a few times but managed not to hit it, or not notice which key it was, and had to go looking. |
| 16:18:23 | copper | hmmm it does |
| 16:18:25 | copper | just not the volume |
| 16:18:47 | [Saint] | Hmmm. odd. That /could/ be implemented. |
| 16:18:58 | [Saint] | The sim isn't 100% HW accurate. |
| 16:19:16 | copper | I saw that another theme used the hold switch / button to display alternative information, I figured that makes more sense than "pause" |
| 16:19:28 | copper | since pausing disrupts playback (obviously) |
| 16:19:37 | [Saint] | Not really. |
| 16:19:43 | copper | hmm? |
| 16:19:45 | [Saint] | Most people have the screen sleep on hold. |
| 16:19:53 | [Saint] | Wasted battery. |
| 16:20:08 | copper | they can make it go to sleep after 5 seconds |
| 16:20:11 | [Saint] | Pause is way more likely to have the LCD active, IMO. |
| 16:20:15 | copper | long enough to see the alternative information |
| 16:20:35 | [Saint] | I dunno, I set mine to sleep the LCD immediately on hold. |
| 16:20:40 | copper | yes me too |
| 16:20:57 | [Saint] | hold == I care not for displays :) |
| 16:20:59 | copper | but that was before I used a mechanism to display alternate information |
| 16:21:06 | copper | alternate / alternative, I don't know |
| 16:21:07 | [Saint] | heh |
| 16:21:24 | copper | frenglish phail |
| 16:21:33 | [Saint] | both work. |
| 16:21:39 | copper | good to know |
| 16:21:40 | [Saint] | English IS Hard(TM) |
| 16:21:48 | copper | Yeah? Try French. |
| 16:22:52 | copper | [Saint]: I suspect users would rather use the hold switch than the pause button, if they're going to use that functionality at all |
| 16:23:12 | copper | and if they don't see it, who cares |
| 16:23:18 | copper | it's not that important |
| 16:23:39 | [Saint] | That's why I <3 touchscreen themes. |
| 16:23:52 | [Saint] | Its so easy to fire an event that does whatever the hell you want it to. |
| 16:25:06 | [Saint] | Toggle display layouts with a touch area? Done. Switch fonts on the fly? Done. You can do some awesome stuff. |
| 16:25:42 | [Saint] | JdGordon_ worked quite tirelessly to provide me with the mechanics needed to do this. |
| 16:27:10 | [Saint] | the key is being able to increment, decrement, set, or query variables from a touch area. |
| 16:29:32 | [Saint] | copper: are your Googly_* themes touch capable? |
| 16:30:16 | [Saint] | (bars will automagically generate their own touch areas unless you specify 'notouch', which is a pretty cool feature) |
| 16:35:51 | copper | nein |
| 16:37:01 | copper | <−−- young padawan learner |
| 16:38:13 | [Saint] | the easiest way to think about touch areas is with them being like magic blank viewports. |
| 16:38:26 | [Saint] | they work in almost exactly the same way. |
| 16:38:41 | copper | I'm not really interested in that tbh, since I don't have a touch target |
| 16:39:02 | copper | well I have a smartphone, but I don't use it for music |
| 16:39:13 | [Saint] | the sdl app is pretty cool. |
| 16:39:22 | [Saint] | I use that as a desktop player sometimes. |
| 16:39:34 | [Saint] | themeable desktop rockbox == win. |
| 16:40:46 | [Saint] | its hardly designed well for a desktop player, though. but still kinda cool since you can make it any arbitrary size. |
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| 17:37:24 | westwind | I work at a semiconductor company, we designed SoC has a dedicated processor to handle audio decoding and post-processing with 8K+8K caches and 8k+8k TCM. my question is that should I remove the TCM and increase the caches to 16K+16K in next-generation? is it better for audio related processing/ |
| 17:37:57 | Torne | depends :) |
| 17:38:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:38:58 | Torne | there isn't really a good answer, i don't think. we make use of fast memory when it's available (though we are generally thinking of just internal SRAM rather than TCM), but i'm far from sure that an actual cache wouldn't be better |
| 17:39:22 | Torne | i dunno how much we stuff in iram, either, i would expect more than 8kb |
| 17:39:36 | Torne | since the on-chip SRAMs we're dealing with are likely much bigger (though not as fast) |
| 17:39:54 | Torne | cache is certainly *easier* |
| 17:40:13 | Torne | everything benefits from it, without ahving to go and carefully make smart choices about what to put in your TCM for every codec/dsp effect/etc |
| 17:40:53 | n1s | cache is a lot easier to use, we tent to stuff as much as we can into the sram as long as it's speed critical. it's abit messy since the requirements of codecs may change based on input and different platforms have varying amounts |
| 17:41:25 | Torne | being able to select TCM or cache, and/or lock down cache lines, might be ideal, of course, if your architecture allows :) |
| 17:43:16 | westwind | Torne, We have a software based audio pipeline and it supports for at least 15+ audio format. big instruction size will cause the cache miss heavy. so I have to consider to increase the cache size. I think the caches could be locked down when I really need TCM to optimize a specific audio decoder, am I right/ |
| 17:43:18 | | Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) |
| 17:43:37 | Torne | if you have cacheline lockdown support then that's generally sufficient |
| 17:44:01 | Torne | if you really must never miss in your inner loop then prefetching and locking it is not really any harder than copying it to TCM |
| 17:44:19 | Torne | since you aren't gonna be able to keep the same thing in the TCM allt he time anyway |
| 17:44:43 | Torne | not that i'm an expert on dsp stuff |
| 17:44:51 | Torne | but i know my way around embedded cache nonsnese ;) |
| 17:45:08 | westwind | I think the TCM or scratch pad is not easy to use. |
| 17:45:24 | Torne | yeah, TCM is a pain if you are using it for multiple purposes |
| 17:45:30 | Torne | since you effectively are doing overlays then |
| 17:45:37 | Torne | linking your code to run at different addresses etc |
| 17:45:53 | Torne | whereas locked down cachelines just require the addition of the code to do the locking, and no other changes |
| 17:46:26 | Torne | TCM might still be faster at runtime though |
| 17:46:39 | Torne | depends on the exact implementation |
| 17:47:16 | Torne | (when i say faster i mean, like, maybe it's a cycle or two faster) :) |
| 17:47:19 | | Join saratoga [0] (4160ac54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.96.172.84) |
| 17:47:36 | saratoga | TCM means you use arm? |
| 17:48:42 | westwind | the other question, do you think a dedicated audio DSP is necessary on a dual core cortex A9 SoC? |
| 17:48:52 | westwind | saratoga, TCM or scratch-pad |
| 17:49:17 | westwind | saratoga, Yes, I used to use ARM processor for audio decoding. |
| 17:49:28 | | Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 17:49:30 | saratoga | no dsp is not needed on such a fast processor probably |
| 17:49:30 | Torne | audio DSP seems likely to be superfluous on an A9 |
| 17:49:56 | Torne | unless you are able to keep the A9 in suspend for a long time as a result of decoding on DSP |
| 17:49:59 | saratoga | e do everything on maybe 50 mhz on armv4 |
| 17:50:34 | saratoga | es if your a9 uses too much power adding a slower arm or dsp core could help |
| 17:50:37 | Torne | if you expect to do a lot of stuff that can be done on DSP and comparitively little that needs the APU there may be a power win |
| 17:50:51 | Torne | but if you're waking the APU constantly anyway to do other stuff (e.g. talking on radios) then you're not gonna win much/anything |
| 17:51:25 | saratoga | audio uses so little cpu dsp processors are almost never used for ot these days |
| 17:51:27 | westwind | No voice, just for audio |
| 17:52:05 | saratoga | s this running android? |
| 17:52:23 | saratoga | ughhh stupid nexus keyboard glitches |
| 17:52:27 | westwind | but I heard that the post-processing such as SRS will take a lot of cpu usage. |
| 17:53:09 | westwind | saratoga, Yes, I suppose the os is android. |
| 17:53:39 | Torne | having a DSP core on an android device seems largely pointless, yeah |
| 17:53:42 | saratoga | most effects like that are pretty cheap |
| 17:53:53 | Torne | offload audio decode to the GPU! :) |
| 17:54:13 | westwind | Torne, GPU is very expensive |
| 17:54:21 | Torne | Cheaper than the APU |
| 17:54:36 | saratoga | elechips had one of them, cant rememberr if it was srs, running in a couple kb of ram on a 200 mhz arm9 core |
| 17:55:00 | saratoga | telechips |
| 17:55:14 | saratoga | this was 5 years ago |
| 17:55:25 | saratoga | our a9 is unimaginab |
| 17:55:30 | saratoga | ast |
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| 17:56:18 | saratoga | unimaginably fast |
| 17:57:38 | saratoga | i think including a cortex m4 or similar as an audio processor could be useful to save power perhaps |
| 17:57:47 | saratoga | but only if you exp |
| 17:57:47 | Torne | westwind: android devices are bascially always doing race-to-completion; powering a DSP constantly may not actually be cheaper than powering the A9 for long enough to fill all your audio buffers and then just shutting it off |
| 17:58:09 | westwind | saratoga, Yes, but If you owned a whole multi-instances audio pipeline on a ARM9, includes decoding, resample-rate, volume, post-processing downmixing, mixing and I2S/HDMI/SPDIF driver, do you think the arm9 is enough to handle all of those/ |
| 17:58:19 | Torne | if you're just doing decoding/effects you don't have any realtime inputs so you can race to completion instead |
| 17:58:33 | saratoga | but only if you expect the user to rarely have the a9 powered and listen to audio at the same time |
| 17:58:35 | Torne | westwind: probably not, but the A9 is, like, fifty times faster than that :) |
| 17:59:21 | saratoga | ont we have that in rockbox? |
| 17:59:28 | saratoga | dont |
| 17:59:33 | Torne | yeah, pretty much. |
| 17:59:54 | Torne | we do most/all of that, and while it lags if you try and do all of that on a 40MHz ARM7TDMI, it works fine on something like the beast with an ARM11 ;) |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:17 | saratoga | we can do aac ,5 band eq, resample and mixing on an 80 mhz arm7tdmi |
| 18:01:06 | Torne | yeah. on an A9 you are more talking about how often you have to wake up at all, rather than the level of utilisation |
| 18:01:19 | saratoga | pdif on some devices too but thats a hardware thing so its free to the CPU |
| 18:01:28 | westwind | saratoga, Torne, Yes, You are the experts, that's why I ask question here. |
| 18:01:44 | Torne | if you only wake up every couple of hundred milliseconds for a moment then the power consumption over time may be *less* than a dedicated always-on DSP doing the same thing |
| 18:01:53 | Torne | depends how good your silicon is at waking up and going to sleep with low latency :) |
| 18:02:08 | saratoga | audio processing is generally very litte cpu compared to what android expects |
| 18:02:19 | Torne | that's android's general approach to everything, anyway: go as fast as possible until you've finished all possible work then shut off as much of the hardware as you can |
| 18:02:55 | saratoga | ut the question is how power efficient is your system for the work loads you expect |
| 18:04:04 | saratoga | we have seen many arm vendors take the same ip from arm and produce designs that are very different in effciency |
| 18:04:54 | saratoga | for an audio player you will need to deep sleep often while using very little power |
| 18:05:25 | | Quit rela (Quit: Leaving) |
| 18:05:31 | saratoga | even the slowest android processors will hardly ever be working for most audio |
| 18:06:30 | saratoga | of course you can screw that up too, ive seen vendors ship codecs with arm optimization disabled for instance |
| 18:06:35 | westwind | saratoga, If My products are for Set-top-box, dolby ture HD and DTS-HD are needed, how do you think if I should have a DSP? |
| 18:07:10 | saratoga | so if you want to do bad things like that a fast proxessor will help |
| 18:07:32 | saratoga | h then power does not matter |
| 18:07:36 | Torne | remmeber that that kind of CPU can already decode pretty advanced *video* codecs with reasonable performance :) |
| 18:08:09 | | Join Jinx [0] (~Jinx@unaffiliated/jinx) |
| 18:08:11 | saratoga | ac3 and regular dts are some of the most primative lossy codecs |
| 18:08:18 | westwind | We have a VPU |
| 18:08:24 | saratoga | dont know about the newer versions |
| 18:08:28 | westwind | We have a hardware-based VPU |
| 18:08:44 | Torne | westwind: right, my point is just that the CPU alone without hardware video decode is probably already capable of HD MPEG4 and SD H264 decoding in realtime |
| 18:08:54 | Torne | Even a crazy advanced audio codec is much less work than that :) |
| 18:09:39 | saratoga | do you need to encode them or just decode? |
| 18:09:50 | Torne | if your hardware runs off the mains then i can't imagine ever wanting DSP; no consumer audio workload is going to tax a modern ARM core at all |
| 18:11:21 | westwind | Torne, saratoga, I'm sorry for my bad english, could you please tell me your conclution, do you think a audio dsp is a necessary on dual A9 cortex? |
| 18:11:35 | Torne | no |
| 18:11:59 | westwind | Torne, thank you very much |
| 18:12:07 | westwind | saratoga, How do you think? |
| 18:12:29 | saratoga | probably not unless you want to do much more then you have mentioned |
| 18:13:15 | westwind | saratoga, You know, It bother me for a long time |
| 18:13:37 | saratoga | just decoding audio and mixing is so fast your cpu wont notice |
| 18:14:02 | westwind | saratoga, I get touch with CEVA for a long time |
| 18:14:55 | westwind | saratoga, Torne, but it's difficute for me to decide buy a DSP |
| 18:15:38 | westwind | saratoga, I heard many company who use A9 processor don't need a DSP for audio |
| 18:16:02 | saratoga | is there some other reason you were considering a dsp or just concern that the main cpu was too slow |
| 18:16:13 | westwind | they just use ffmpeg for decoding, because of the neon instruction set. |
| 18:16:52 | westwind | saratoga, No reason, the A9 is a brand-new thing for me |
| 18:16:54 | saratoga | we have reverse engineered many plays and its been a very long time since DSPs were used |
| 18:17:38 | saratoga | arm7tdmi killed audio DSPs for decoding in the late 1990s |
| 18:19:13 | saratoga | sandisk, creative and others dropped their dsp systems for arm9 in the mid 2000s |
| 18:19:29 | westwind | saratoga, Thank a lot! |
| 18:19:33 | saratoga | i dont know anyone who still uses them |
| 18:19:42 | saratoga | o problem |
| 18:19:50 | saratoga | no problem |
| 18:25:43 | funman | westwind: where do you work btw? if it's not a secret |
| 18:26:13 | | Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 18:26:39 | westwind | funman, I'm sorry, I can't say it. because of I mentioned CEVA. |
| 18:27:46 | funman | that's ok |
| 18:28:32 | westwind | what's the different from #rockbox and #rockbox-community |
| 18:29:18 | funman | #rockbox is for technical talk and #rockbox-community for social chat |
| 18:29:48 | westwind | funman, I get it, Thanks |
| 18:32:58 | westwind | On the calculation of Matrix address this part, the dsp may have the advantage |
| 18:34:03 | westwind | FOR 2D ARRAY |
| 18:34:15 | westwind | FOR MDCT |
| 18:35:53 | westwind | and saturated and MAC |
| 18:36:01 | funman | if you want to decode hundreds of channels at the same time maybe you need a dsp |
| 18:36:33 | funman | the cpu can already do saturation and MAC anyway |
| 18:37:13 | westwind | funman, lol, I'm just thing about the dsp's future, not for me, for the DSP vendor |
| 18:37:50 | westwind | funman, YES, but ARM9 only has the 32bits saturation but not the 16bits |
| 18:38:07 | westwind | funman, ARM11 has 16bits saturation |
| 18:38:39 | funman | A9 is ARM11 |
| 18:38:48 | Torne | westwind: ..you are aware that ARM9 and A9 are different, right? |
| 18:38:51 | Torne | funman: no it isn't :) |
| 18:39:00 | westwind | Torne, yes |
| 18:39:07 | * | funman lets Torne correct him |
| 18:41:21 | westwind | I think the dsp has advantage for voice but not audio related |
| 18:42:10 | westwind | such as Echo Cancellation |
| 18:42:40 | westwind | speech recognition |
| 18:44:01 | funman | possible, echo cancellation doesn't make much sense for rockbox; for speech recognition I don't know if that was ever studied by us |
| 18:44:44 | westwind | funman, does rockbox have AMR? |
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| 18:45:28 | funman | i doubt it |
| 18:46:07 | | Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) |
| 18:46:43 | funman | although wmavoice seems to mention it, are they similar codecs? |
| 18:47:41 | westwind | HE-AAC V2 also has speech related thins |
| 18:48:30 | westwind | funman, total different |
| 18:52:01 | westwind | torne, saratoga, funman, , Thanks for your expertise. I'm going to bed. |
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| 19:47:03 | webguest44 | Can Rockbox be used on the Samsung Z5, I know it's not usable on YP-Z5, but is it unusable, meaning I can use it sort of. |
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| 20:05:29 | saratoga | ARM9E has 32x16 shifted into 32 MACs, but only limited saturation IIRC |
| 20:05:47 | saratoga | i think they added it in v5 or v6, but its not very useful because its slow and crappy |
| 20:06:16 | saratoga | its not super useful anyway since with 32 bit samples you shouldn't really need it for most things |
| 20:06:46 | | Join thomasjfox [0] (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
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| 20:38:14 | wodz | Torne: What is the usage of locking cache way (not individual cache lines)? |
| 20:38:44 | Torne | making the logic simpler, i expect |
| 20:40:20 | wodz | Torne: So how do you use such feature from software pov? |
| 20:40:34 | | Join wowaname [0] (~wow@184.242.79.129) |
| 20:41:12 | Torne | arrange your code so the bits you want to lock end up in the same ways, potentially :) |
| 20:42:47 | wodz | Torne: You mean lock way0, prefetch, unlock way0, lock way1 ? |
| 20:43:03 | Torne | depends, you'd ahve to read chip docs |
| 20:43:08 | Torne | the ways locking works vary wildly |
| 20:43:16 | Torne | really rather annoying :) |
| 20:44:21 | kugel | what's a cache way? |
| 20:44:22 | wodz | Ok assuming I can figure out how to put something in cache way and then lock this way, how this can be used to speed up things in rb? |
| 20:44:53 | Torne | wodz: if you can find hot loops in codecs and cachealign them and lock them you may find decoding is better |
| 20:45:03 | Torne | similar to the improvements we get by putting stuff in iram, but more so :) |
| 20:45:17 | Torne | you may need to lock different things at different times, though |
| 20:45:25 | Torne | since you probably can't lock muc |
| 20:45:33 | Torne | many cachesyou can only lock, say, 50% |
| 20:45:48 | wodz | hmm, sounds complicated in practice |
| 20:45:52 | Torne | yes, it is. |
| 20:45:59 | Torne | it's very hard to use to any real benefit |
| 20:46:23 | Torne | it has occasinoally been used for unusual things like hardware security |
| 20:46:36 | Torne | :) |
| 20:46:46 | saratoga | funfact: on older PP CPUs, the IRAM is actually faster than the L1 cache |
| 20:47:07 | Torne | also that, yeha. if you actually have iram in the specific sense then it may be just as good as the cache, or even better |
| 20:47:21 | Torne | the cache in the PP isn't really the same architecture as a real L1 cache ;) |
| 20:47:32 | Torne | it's external, whcih is not a thing people have typically done with L1 |
| 20:47:48 | Torne | so the IRAM is actually more like TCM and the cache is more like L2 cache :) |
| 20:48:27 | wodz | on rk27xx I have only 4kB of Iram but 16kB of cache where I can lock way so you know |
| 20:48:48 | wodz | but this seems fairly complicated to gain anything |
| 20:48:49 | Torne | yeah, so you may be able to treat the cache like another 4kb or 8kb of iram |
| 20:48:59 | Torne | but you would have to lay the code out in ram correctly |
| 20:49:19 | Torne | and lock/unlock the right bits at the right times |
| 20:49:34 | Torne | and it may well be that the cache and prefetch logic are already doing a good enoguh job |
| 20:49:48 | Torne | and your manual cache management may even make it slower since it takes time to execute the prefetch/lock code :) |
| 20:50:22 | Torne | something we could potentially do better on chips with cache is just using explicit prefetch/preload instructions on chips that have those |
| 20:50:31 | Torne | without needing to lock anything |
| 20:51:48 | | Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:13:14 | | Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) |
| 21:18:47 | | Join Borg^Queen [0] (~arklinux@arklinux/tester/borgqueen) |
| 21:18:55 | Borg^Queen | hello people |
| 21:19:02 | wowaname | h |
| 21:20:54 | amayer | Borg^Queen: hello |
| 21:21:08 | Borg^Queen | hello wowaname and amayer |
| 21:21:36 | Borg^Queen | Going to try to build rb from git, here in case I hit a wall. |
| 21:22:03 | Borg^Queen | I can't find a prebuilt that supports nano g2 |
| 21:22:38 | amayer | Borg^Queen: http://build.rockbox.org/ |
| 21:23:18 | Borg^Queen | yes, I didn't get to the problem. I'm running an older system that has served me so well, I'm not willing to part with it. |
| 21:23:32 | Borg^Queen | So I would need older versions capable of supporting nano g2 |
| 21:25:05 | gevaerts | In that case I'd recommend running some older release |
| 21:25:09 | gevaerts | Those are all available |
| 21:25:23 | Borg^Queen | Aye, looking for one. |
| 21:25:35 | gevaerts | http://download.rockbox.org/release/ |
| 21:26:13 | Borg^Queen | I have release ... m1.0.9 |
| 21:26:26 | Borg^Queen | I had forgotten that I had it, so I fired it up. |
| 21:26:28 | gevaerts | That's not a rockbox release |
| 21:26:35 | Borg^Queen | no? |
| 21:26:38 | Borg^Queen | ah ok |
| 21:26:56 | Borg^Queen | thank you for the link , checking now |
| 21:28:09 | | Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 21:28:28 | | Part LinusN |
| 21:30:09 | Borg^Queen | does anyone know off hand where version started to support ipod gen2 and archos 5 |
| 21:30:53 | saratoga | the archos 5 was never supported |
| 21:31:05 | saratoga | the nano2G was a couple years ago |
| 21:31:09 | saratoga | why? |
| 21:31:36 | Borg^Queen | Those are the devices I have |
| 21:35:26 | saratoga | no i mean why are you asking |
| 21:35:33 | saratoga | why do you want to know when support was added? |
| 21:36:36 | Borg^Queen | so I can get the oldest version which is likely to work on older distro rel |
| 21:36:42 | Borg^Queen | releases |
| 21:36:57 | saratoga | I don't understand? |
| 21:37:11 | Borg^Queen | It's ok |
| 21:39:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:39:09 | amayer | Borg^Queen: the newest version of the firmware still works on ipod nano 2g |
| 21:39:37 | Borg^Queen | yes, I understand that, I wanted to build the utility. |
| 21:39:55 | Borg^Queen | Sorry just realized I misspoke meself. |
| 21:40:17 | Borg^Queen | Raised a Gaelic speaker |
| 21:40:23 | gevaerts | Building an older rockbox utility is unlikely to achieve much |
| 21:40:26 | saratoga | ah so you're asking about building rockbox utility |
| 21:40:27 | amayer | you can guild the new utility and it should work |
| 21:40:55 | amayer | s/guild/build/ |
| 21:41:04 | Borg^Queen | amayer: currently trying with latest, I got an error last time I wasn't able to figure out, which is why I'm here. |
| 21:41:05 | gevaerts | rockbox utility gets its information about versions from the server, so using an older version to try to get older rockbox versions won't work |
| 21:41:07 | Borg^Queen | using git |
| 21:41:23 | Borg^Queen | gevaerts: yes |
| 21:41:24 | amayer | Borg^Queen: what was your error? |
| 21:41:37 | Borg^Queen | still in compile mode |
| 21:42:01 | Borg^Queen | it will be about 20 mins, which is why I was looking for an older version whilst waiting. |
| 21:42:46 | saratoga | gevaerts: he mispoke above, hes not trying to get an old version of rockbox, just a version of the utility that will build on whatever hes running |
| 21:42:53 | Borg^Queen | she |
| 21:43:09 | gevaerts | Right |
| 21:43:13 | Borg^Queen | lol |
| 21:43:19 | | Nick Borg^Queen is now known as BigHairGuy (~arklinux@arklinux/tester/borgqueen) |
| 21:43:37 | gevaerts | Still, older versions of rockbox utility will have trouble with some newer targets... |
| 21:43:44 | | Nick BigHairGuy is now known as Borg^Queen (~arklinux@arklinux/tester/borgqueen) |
| 21:43:49 | Borg^Queen | I thought as much |
| 21:48:54 | Borg^Queen | it seems easy to install it manually |
| 21:54:13 | | Quit y4n (Quit: MOTHER EUROPA CALLING ME!) |
| 21:55:13 | | Quit rdn (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:59:04 | Borg^Queen | I love being able to use ogg, it was such a bloody bother to convert to mp3 all the time. |
| 22:00 |
| 22:03:07 | wowaname | does anyone know how to update the bootloader |
| 22:03:12 | wowaname | i have the image |
| 22:03:33 | wowaname | ipod classic 160g |
| 22:03:35 | wowaname | b |
| 22:06:52 | wowaname | also, i seem to fail at %pv as a progress bar |
| 22:07:59 | Borg^Queen | wowaname: same here, lots of traffic, but it's moving |
| 22:08:51 | wowaname | what? |
| 22:09:06 | wowaname | Borg^Queen» what are you replying to |
| 22:09:44 | Borg^Queen | you progress, are you trying to down using git? |
| 22:09:56 | wowaname | no |
| 22:10:01 | wowaname | i am talking about themes |
| 22:10:03 | wowaname | the %pv tag |
| 22:10:09 | Borg^Queen | ah sorry misunderstood |
| 22:11:07 | wowaname | lol i guess |
| 22:11:22 | Borg^Queen | :) |
| 22:11:28 | wowaname | <3 |
| 22:11:44 | Borg^Queen | sorry multitasking, working on 5 computers and translating in as many languages. |
| 22:11:47 | wowaname | oh the font converter is one way |
| 22:11:55 | wowaname | Borg^Queen» what's your native language |
| 22:12:04 | Borg^Queen | Gaelic |
| 22:12:05 | wowaname | ah |
| 22:12:15 | wowaname | damn you're doing well trying to keep up |
| 22:12:29 | Borg^Queen | I also speak english, spanish, some italian and a little french, mostly the curses. |
| 22:12:36 | Borg^Queen | lol |
| 22:12:36 | wowaname | lmao |
| 22:12:39 | wowaname | i want to learn japanese |
| 22:12:43 | funman | please move social chat to #rockbox-community |
| 22:12:48 | wowaname | D: |
| 22:12:54 | wodz | this isnt social chat chaps |
| 22:13:01 | wowaname | penis |
| 22:13:08 | Mode | "#rockbox +o funman" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 22:13:10 | Mode | "#rockbox +b *!*wow@184.242.79.*" by funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 22:13:10 | Kick | (#rockbox wowaname :wowaname) by funman!~fun@rockbox/developer/funman |
| 22:13:10 | | Quit fs-bluebot (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:13:11 | Borg^Queen | Problem is these languages use the same words, but with different meanings so I have to be careful not to mix them up. |
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| 22:29:42 | | Nick thomasjfox_ is now known as thomasjfox (~thomasjfo@rockbox/developer/thomasjfox) |
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| 22:32:18 | Insider | hi all |
| 22:34:59 | Insider | I'm a disappointed Creative X-Fi3 user. |
| 22:35:22 | Insider | Disappointed due to the very low volume output of the European versions. |
| 22:37:33 | amayer | Insider: is this rockbox related or just a limitation on the device itself? |
| 22:37:54 | Insider | nope, an imposed limitation by Creative. |
| 22:38:37 | Insider | so I'm trying to figure out how to overcome this limitation. Someone say to me to upload a non original firmware. |
| 22:39:02 | n1s | there's some EU regulation on max power or something in portables |
| 22:39:16 | Insider | yes, this regulation is just ridiculous. |
| 22:40:00 | Insider | Are European ears more sensitive than American one? What the reason of this normative? |
| 22:40:14 | n1s | for many players you can just flash a firmware for a different region but i'm not sure that works on that player. Also this isn't strictly rockbox related i think |
| 22:40:14 | saratoga | the eu has laws and such |
| 22:40:17 | Insider | the volume is definitely lower than non european version. |
| 22:40:23 | saratoga | try flashing a different firmware, or run rockbox |
| 22:40:33 | Insider | I have the american firmware (1.0.0.25) |
| 22:40:52 | Insider | but actually I cannot flash it. |
| 22:41:05 | Insider | Actually I have the same version, but european |
| 22:41:17 | Insider | and looks like that the installation abort. |
| 22:41:54 | Insider | I don't know how to do it manually. |
| 22:42:09 | Insider | just copying firmware.sb in the root of the device? |
| 22:42:22 | pamaury | Insider: no that won't work, you need some custom updater |
| 22:42:36 | pamaury | are you using windows or linux ? |
| 22:42:45 | Insider | windows, but I have virtual box |
| 22:42:52 | Insider | to virtualize linux |
| 22:43:06 | pamaury | with linux that can be done pretty easily |
| 22:43:17 | Insider | oh good |
| 22:43:45 | Insider | I have already downloaded the rockbox dev image |
| 22:44:43 | jlbiasini_ | pamaury: I have a release candidate for you: g#569 |
| 22:44:46 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #569 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/569 : touchpad: Disable touchpad on softlock. by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/69/569/18) |
| 22:44:53 | pamaury | you will need a special file, I'll build it for you, you also need a recent version of our source code |
| 22:45:40 | pamaury | jlbiasini_: thanks, I'll have a look at that in a minute |
| 22:46:12 | jlbiasini_ | it is separated from touchscreen so that we can wait to have a test on g#532 |
| 22:46:14 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #532 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/532 : touchscreen: touchdev_enable implementation by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/32/532/8) |
| 22:47:08 | Insider | pamaury: I have to do a gitcheck out? |
| 22:47:19 | jlbiasini_ | before to implement touscreen with it. I have to change this last pacth into one that will make it usuable after g#532 is pushed |
| 22:47:21 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #532 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/532 : touchscreen: touchdev_enable implementation by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/32/532/8) |
| 22:47:36 | jlbiasini_ | I meant g#569 |
| 22:47:38 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #569 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/569 : touchpad: Disable touchpad on softlock. by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/69/569/18) |
| 22:47:55 | pamaury | Insider: that's the simplest option yes |
| 22:48:15 | Insider | ok, I'm going to do it. |
| 22:48:21 | jlbiasini_ | first we set this new setting touch menu > then we can add touchscreen to it |
| 22:48:37 | Borg^Queen | ok I've completed dling rockbox from git |
| 22:49:00 | | Join ikeboy [0] (~dell@ool-435622d3.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 22:49:06 | jlbiasini_ | then I have to check a few touchpad target that are not defined as touchpad to see if they are worth/possible to add it |
| 22:49:14 | Borg^Queen | Should I mkdir build and then run rockboxdev.sh from it? |
| 22:49:46 | | Quit fs-bluebot (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:50:02 | | Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@f053154155.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:50:02 | pamaury | Insider: download this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2thwb786hox91he/recovery.sb |
| 22:50:03 | jlbiasini_ | then I will also change touchpad_sensitivity to touchdev_sensitivity for the case some touchscreen might have a use of it |
| 22:50:15 | gevaerts | Borg^Queen: no. You can run rockboxdev.sh from anywhere. I don't think you need that for rockbox utility though |
| 22:51:18 | Borg^Queen | what do you recommend I do from here. I have several compile recommendations, don't know which to follow. |
| 22:52:30 | Insider | pamaury: done. |
| 22:52:36 | jlbiasini_ | finally we can also add the lock only touchdev on softlock. It's really easy with touchdev_enable. We can set a switch in action linked to a setting that does either lock or touchdev_enable |
| 22:53:11 | pamaury | Insider: when you have a full git checkout, using the command line, go to the root of the source tree, then go into utils/imxtools/sbtools and run "make" |
| 22:55:33 | | Quit petur (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) |
| 22:56:26 | gevaerts | Borg^Queen: for rockbox utility, http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/RockboxUtilityDevelopment#How_To_Compile is what you need I suspect |
| 22:56:44 | Borg^Queen | Thanks already there and reading |
| 22:56:59 | Insider | pamaury: I have the following error: ubuntu@ubuntu-VirtualBox:~/Desktop/rockbox/utils/imxtools/sbtools$ make |
| 22:56:59 | Insider | gcc -O3 -g -std=c99 -W -Wall `pkg-config −−cflags libusb-1.0` -DCRYPTO_LIBUSB -c -o elftosb.o elftosb.c |
| 22:56:59 | Insider | Package libusb-1.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. |
| 22:56:59 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK Insider |
| 22:56:59 | Insider | Perhaps you should add the directory containing `libusb-1.0.pc' |
| 22:57:54 | Insider | I haven't do the 'configure' and make |
| 22:57:55 | pamaury | Insider: you need to install the libusb-1.0.0-dev package |
| 22:58:04 | Insider | described in rockbox.txt |
| 22:58:04 | pamaury | there is no configure for this tool |
| 22:58:07 | Insider | ok |
| 22:59:11 | Insider | ok, installed. |
| 22:59:15 | jlbiasini_ | kugel: where can I set this list acceleration value? |
| 22:59:22 | Insider | pamaury: still errors: ubuntu@ubuntu-VirtualBox:~/Desktop/rockbox/utils/imxtools/sbtools$ make |
| 22:59:22 | Insider | gcc -O3 -g -std=c99 -W -Wall `pkg-config −−cflags libusb-1.0` -DCRYPTO_LIBUSB -c -o elftosb.o elftosb.c |
| 22:59:22 | Insider | Package libusb-1.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. |
| 22:59:22 | Insider | Perhaps you should add the directory containing `libusb-1.0.pc' |
| 22:59:40 | Insider | oops, sorry wrong cut & paste. |
| 22:59:47 | Insider | elftosb.c:433:5: error: too few arguments to function ‘sb_write_file’ |
| 22:59:53 | Insider | I have this error. |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:09 | pamaury | ah right, wait a second |
| 23:00:33 | Borg^Queen | ah ok I need qt 4.5, I have 4.4 |
| 23:00:36 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision 99f3ca1, 217 builds, 21 clients. |
| 23:00:58 | pamaury | Insider: I've just committed the fix, update the code by running "git pull −−rebase" |
| 23:01:01 | jlbiasini_ | kugel, pamaury: g#571 |
| 23:01:03 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #571 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/571 : fuze+/keymaps: Implement the ACTION_STD_MENU by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/71/571/1) |
| 23:01:11 | funman | sbtoelf.c:80:40: erreur: ‘elf_std_printf’ undeclared (first use in this function) |
| 23:01:56 | funman | elftosb built fine though |
| 23:02:32 | Borg^Queen | where can I find the rbutility source? |
| 23:02:46 | Insider | pamaury: other error now: sbtoelf.c:80:40: error: ‘elf_std_printf’ undeclared (first use in this function) |
| 23:02:57 | Borg^Queen | one old enough to run on qt 4.4 |
| 23:03:13 | pamaury | Insider: update again, i committed another fix |
| 23:03:26 | Insider | ok |
| 23:04:09 | Insider | pamaury: done |
| 23:04:14 | | Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:04:19 | funman | pamaury: inlined from ‘sb1_write_file’ at sb1.c:162:11: |
| 23:04:19 | funman | /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/string3.h:51:3: attention : call to __builtin___memcpy_chk will always overflow destination buffer [enabled by default] |
| 23:04:33 | funman | it builds though but it's a bit scary ^_^ |
| 23:04:39 | Borg^Queen | All I see it rb itself |
| 23:05:27 | Borg^Queen | found it |
| 23:06:56 | Insider | I have 5 executable: sbloader, sbtoelf, rsrctool, elftosb and elftosb1 |
| 23:07:01 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Build round completed after 385 seconds. |
| 23:07:02 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision 8dc7970, 217 builds, 21 clients. |
| 23:07:08 | pamaury | Insider: now plug your xfi3, while plugged hold the power button and while holding the power button, press the reset the button (and keep power for a few seconds) |
| 23:07:42 | Insider | linux is virtualized, I think that windows will recognize it |
| 23:07:46 | Insider | not linux |
| 23:08:10 | gevaerts | Borg^Queen: the RockboxUtilityDevelopment wiki page was updated to mention 4.5.0 (from 4.4.0) in March 2010. Git commit 17f56379 suggests that the requirement for 4.5.0 is still older. I suspect getting a usable rockbox utility to build with 4.4.0 will be a challenge... |
| 23:08:21 | pamaury | Insider: you need to give the usb device to linux, if you can |
| 23:08:29 | pamaury | otherwise that will get tricky |
| 23:08:33 | pamaury | funman: interesting my compile doesn' catch that |
| 23:08:33 | Borg^Queen | gevaerts: aye, thanks |
| 23:08:41 | Borg^Queen | I'll give it a go anyway |
| 23:09:02 | Insider | If I plug the xfi3, I can then let virtual box recognize it |
| 23:09:09 | Insider | I will try |
| 23:09:21 | funman | pamaury: i am running ubuntu 13.04 : gcc 4.7.2 / glibc 2.17 |
| 23:09:26 | Mode | "#rockbox -o funman" by funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 23:09:52 | Insider | pamaury: Can I restore my original firmware in future? |
| 23:09:59 | pamaury | Insider: yes |
| 23:10:51 | Borg^Queen | ok I'm going to try manual installs, it can't be that hard. |
| 23:10:54 | pamaury | can you give the usb device to linux ? if you run "lsusb", you should get something like "066f:3780 STMP3780/i.MX23 recovery device" |
| 23:12:24 | pamaury | funman: gcc 4.8.1 here, did you tweak the compile options ? |
| 23:13:12 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Build round completed after 370 seconds. |
| 23:13:20 | funman | pamaury: no |
| 23:14:06 | pamaury | Insider: ^ |
| 23:15:08 | funman | pamaury: try adding -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 ? |
| 23:16:23 | pamaury | funman: it does the trick |
| 23:17:03 | funman | ten points for ubuntu |
| 23:17:49 | Insider | mmm |
| 23:20:46 | Borg^Queen | God love the cli. |
| 23:21:20 | funman | pamaury: i wonder what would happen if we use that flag to build rockbox itself |
| 23:21:25 | pamaury | Insider: did you manage to give the usb device to linux ? |
| 23:21:43 | pamaury | funman: we would need a recent version of gcc, and probably too many errors to cound them |
| 23:21:51 | Insider | yes, I cannot enter the recovery mode |
| 23:22:04 | funman | pamaury: i doubt we need a recent version of gcc, that's been in ubuntu for years |
| 23:22:23 | funman | although support for it is (entirely?) in glibc so we'd need to adapt our headers |
| 23:22:44 | Borg^Queen | should I use a daily build for the nanog2? |
| 23:23:01 | funman | Borg^Queen: current build |
| 23:23:18 | Borg^Queen | 2013-08-21 Rockbox 3656 KB? |
| 23:23:31 | pamaury | Insider: did you follow my procedure exactly ? First plug, then slide the button to power and while doing that, use a pen to press reset, continue to slide the power for a few seconds |
| 23:23:31 | funman | Borg^Queen: http://build.rockbox.org/ |
| 23:23:32 | Insider | lsusb say: Device 004: ID 041e:4169 Creative Technology, Ltd |
| 23:23:50 | Borg^Queen | funman: thanks |
| 23:23:53 | Insider | lsusb say: Device 004: ID 041e:4169 Creative Technology, Ltd |
| 23:24:10 | pamaury | you need to get 066f:3780 and the screen will stay black |
| 23:24:30 | | Quit Hadaka (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) |
| 23:24:46 | funman | pamaury: hmm it seems it's all done by glibc, although i guess stack smashing detection is in gcc |
| 23:25:47 | Borg^Queen | can I load my own fonts into it? |
| 23:25:55 | Insider | the screen is black, virtual box say: unknown device 064e:D213 |
| 23:26:09 | Insider | and I cannot connect it to linux |
| 23:28:12 | pamaury | this is not the right id, it should be 066f:3780 |
| 23:28:25 | pamaury | and report as a HID device |
| 23:29:47 | wodz | Insider: this is different device I guess. Google suggest this vid:pid is for Suiyn Camera |
| 23:30:32 | Insider | oh wodz you say right |
| 23:30:46 | Insider | it report that device also with xfi3 disconnected |
| 23:30:58 | Insider | how to check if I enter the recovery mode correctly? |
| 23:31:06 | Insider | any way from windows? |
| 23:31:20 | | Join Hadaka [0] (~naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 23:32:05 | pamaury | Insider: maybe in device manager, it should appear |
| 23:32:22 | pamaury | in theory it should report has a human interface device |
| 23:33:09 | Insider | ah ok |
| 23:33:13 | Insider | found it |
| 23:33:17 | Insider | HID |
| 23:33:24 | Insider | 066f 3780 |
| 23:33:29 | Insider | from hardware device |
| 23:33:32 | pamaury | good, so now can you give it to the virtual box ? |
| 23:33:49 | Insider | sigmatel inc rom recovery? |
| 23:34:28 | pamaury | yes |
| 23:34:32 | Insider | ok |
| 23:34:33 | Insider | I have it |
| 23:34:39 | Insider | 066f:3780 SigmeTel, Inc. |
| 23:34:45 | Insider | (lsusb) |
| 23:34:48 | pamaury | Perfect |
| 23:35:17 | pamaury | now in your console, still in sbtools, you need to run: sudo sbloader recovery.sb |
| 23:35:33 | pamaury | where recovery.sb is the path to the recovery.sb file you downloaded from dropbox |
| 23:36:06 | Insider | done |
| 23:36:12 | Insider | some text appears |
| 23:36:15 | Insider | in the display |
| 23:36:17 | Insider | of xfi3 |
| 23:38:11 | pamaury | good, now your device should appear with as a mass storage device |
| 23:38:14 | Insider | now the lsusb reports: Bus 001 Device 006: ID 041e:2020 Creative Technology, Ltd Zen X-Fi 2 |
| 23:38:16 | Insider | yes |
| 23:38:20 | Borg^Queen | ok it's not allowing me to copy .rockbox into the ipod |
| 23:38:29 | pamaury | extactly, oops wrong id by the way, I need to fix that, anyway |
| 23:38:29 | Borg^Queen | I checked all the perms too |
| 23:38:43 | Insider | so? |
| 23:38:44 | pamaury | your device should be something like /dev/sdb probably |
| 23:38:54 | pamaury | run fdisk /dev/sdb, then "p" and pastebin the output |
| 23:39:06 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:39:21 | Borg^Queen | ok hang on |
| 23:39:46 | Insider | it show nothing |
| 23:39:53 | Insider | "Command (m for help): |
| 23:39:54 | Insider | " |
| 23:39:59 | Insider | probabily isn't sdb? |
| 23:40:06 | Insider | How I can check it? |
| 23:40:08 | gevaerts | Borg^Queen: does dmesg say anything about filesystem corruption? |
| 23:40:15 | Borg^Queen | checking |
| 23:41:04 | Insider | I have an sdhc card mounted |
| 23:41:07 | pamaury | Insider: check in dmesg | tail |
| 23:41:11 | Borg^Queen | no, nothing about fs cor |
| 23:41:19 | pamaury | (make sure the mass storage device belongs to the linux box) |
| 23:41:56 | Borg^Queen | isn't it fdisk -l to see the attached drives? |
| 23:42:12 | pamaury | ah yes |
| 23:42:17 | pamaury | very relevant, thanks |
| 23:42:19 | Insider | [ 3231.991700] sd 6:0:0:1: [sdc] No Caching mode page present |
| 23:42:19 | Insider | [ 3231.991708] sd 6:0:0:1: [sdc] Assuming drive cache: write through |
| 23:42:19 | Insider | [ 3232.001258] sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3 sdb4 |
| 23:42:19 | Insider | [ 3232.009848] sdc: sdc1 |
| 23:42:19 | Insider | [ 3232.114789] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] No Caching mode page present |
| 23:42:19 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 23:42:19 | Insider | [ 3232.114797] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through |
| 23:42:20 | *** | Alert Mode level 2 |
| 23:42:20 | Insider | [ 3232.114805] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk |
| 23:42:20 | *** | Alert Mode level 3 |
| 23:42:20 | Insider | [ 3232.123737] sd 6:0:0:1: [sdc] No Caching mode page present |
| 23:42:21 | *** | Alert Mode level 4 |
| 23:42:21 | Insider | [ 3232.123744] sd 6:0:0:1: [sdc] Assuming drive cache: write through |
| 23:42:21 | *** | Alert Mode level 5 |
| 23:42:21 | Insider | [ 3232.123751] sd 6:0:0:1: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk |
| 23:42:38 | Borg^Queen | sdc2 is likely it |
| 23:42:52 | pamaury | Insider: avoid pasting many lines here, use paste.pm |
| 23:42:59 | Insider | ah ok, sorry |
| 23:43:02 | Insider | I'm* |
| 23:43:15 | | Join ender1 [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 23:43:16 | Insider | I have 2 drive because I have inserted an sdhc of 16 gb |
| 23:43:36 | pamaury | it should be sdb |
| 23:43:44 | | Quit ender` (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:43:44 | | Quit thomasjfox (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 23:43:45 | Insider | ok |
| 23:43:46 | Borg^Queen | gevaerts: This happened after I did a cli install of the ipodpatcher |
| 23:44:05 | pamaury | can you check again with fdisk /dev/sdb and paste the output when pressing "p" (use paste.pm) |
| 23:44:20 | gevaerts | Borg^Queen: what exactly is the error you get? |
| 23:44:26 | Borg^Queen | hang on |
| 23:44:29 | Insider | same as before |
| 23:44:38 | Insider | it print nothing, only a prompt: "Command (m for help)." |
| 23:44:40 | Borg^Queen | Could not make folder /home/mnt/sdb2/.rockbox |
| 23:44:47 | Borg^Queen | this is from with konqueror |
| 23:44:59 | Insider | idem for sdc |
| 23:45:10 | Insider | maybe the fdisk syntax is different? |
| 23:45:34 | Insider | actually I have the 16 gb mounted |
| 23:45:39 | Insider | I can see the files inside it |
| 23:45:50 | pamaury | Insider: did you press "p" as I said |
| 23:45:50 | pamaury | ? |
| 23:46:01 | Insider | ah! |
| 23:46:05 | Insider | ok |
| 23:46:07 | Insider | I have it |
| 23:46:45 | Insider | here the result: http://pastebin.com/SdnNL29s |
| 23:46:59 | Borg^Queen | the ipodpatcher seems to have erased .rockbox |
| 23:47:05 | gevaerts | No |
| 23:47:09 | gevaerts | It doesn't do that |
| 23:47:19 | Borg^Queen | it's gone now |
| 23:47:33 | gevaerts | Is the device still mounted? |
| 23:47:34 | Borg^Queen | and I can recopy it over |
| 23:47:37 | Borg^Queen | yes |
| 23:47:43 | Borg^Queen | I can see all the usual dir |
| 23:47:47 | pamaury | Insider: good, now just to check, run "sudo hexdump -C /dev/sdb2 | head" |
| 23:47:59 | gevaerts | Hmmm |
| 23:48:22 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 23:48:22 | * | gevaerts doesn't really know |
| 23:48:30 | gevaerts | Unless unplugging without unmounting is involved |
| 23:48:36 | Borg^Queen | nope |
| 23:48:45 | Borg^Queen | but, I can try running a fsck |
| 23:48:48 | Insider | here: http://pastebin.com/rZpkjLH8 |
| 23:49:04 | Borg^Queen | but then wouldn't it fail to mount? |
| 23:49:13 | pamaury | Insider: ok good |
| 23:49:35 | pamaury | now you will need your american version of the creative software |
| 23:49:52 | Insider | I have it |
| 23:50:02 | pamaury | actually this is the step of the procedure where you can take any firmware file and flash it, disregarding version downgrading and so on |
| 23:50:03 | Insider | 'firmware.sb' |
| 23:50:27 | | Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat) |
| 23:50:45 | pamaury | now run: sudo dd if=firmware.sb bs=512 seek=4 of=/dev/sdb2 |
| 23:50:52 | pamaury | then then "sudo sync" |
| 23:52:22 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 23:52:41 | jlbiasini_ | pamaury: there still a few stuff to be corrected in g#569 |
| 23:52:43 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #569 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/569 : touchpad: Disable touchpad on softlock. by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/69/569/18) |
| 23:52:49 | jlbiasini_ | shouldn't be long |
| 23:53:57 | Insider | transfering... |
| 23:54:05 | Insider | how much time it require on average? |
| 23:54:57 | Insider | ok done |
| 23:54:59 | pamaury | Insider: don't remember for the xfi3, probably a minute or so |
| 23:55:32 | Insider | and now? |
| 23:57:07 | pamaury | disconnect your device and pray ;) |
| 23:57:12 | Insider | ! |
| 23:57:44 | pamaury | and power it again, if everything went well, it should boot your newly flashed firmware |
| 23:58:05 | Insider | booted |
| 23:58:08 | Insider | successfully |
| 23:58:38 | pamaury | check the version in the OF settings |
| 23:58:49 | Insider | yes! |
| 23:58:56 | Insider | it's changed |
| 23:59:01 | Insider | 1.0.0.25 |
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