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#rockbox log for 2013-09-17

00:11:32kugelgkwhc: we run on 80MHz ARMs and 2.x MB RAM
00:12:07gevaertsDon't combine those two with a colour LCD though
00:12:43lebelliumor only with a good colour LCD like C200 \o/
00:13:10gevaertslebellium: actually, the c200v2 is what I have in mind :)
00:13:23gevaerts2.something MB RAM and a colour screen
00:13:36gevaertsThat means struggling to get everything to fit
00:15:41lebelliumThe V2 has more RAM or less than the V1? I don't remember
00:16:11lebelliumkugel: if you have time to look at it, the R0 sim should work properly now :)
00:20:35 Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving)
00:23:00 Join wowaname [0] (~wow@
00:24:26 Quit ender` (Quit: There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home. -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of DEC)
00:27:07 Join prof_wolfff [0] (
00:52:26 Quit sakax (Remote host closed the connection)
00:56:01Cosmo^'ey dudes ...
00:56:34Cosmo^how exactly do the values in powermgmt c files map to percentage values in rockbox?
00:56:46Cosmo^it seems that my changes didn't exactly map quite as I expected ...
01:01:52 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:05:40 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 24.0/20130909203154])
01:05:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:06:38 Quit Xerion (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:18:58Cosmo^also, the USB disk mount seems to be exceptionally buggy on my iPod Classic
01:23:01 Join lolhatz3000 [0] (
01:24:18wowanameCosmo^» it is
01:24:35Cosmo^well that answers that then 8)
01:24:44wowanameuse GNU/Linux to transfer stuff
01:24:55 Quit Zarggg (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:24:59wowanameWindows will fubar the disk and you will have to format
01:25:06Cosmo^I've not had that so far
01:25:12Cosmo^more that it just doesn't properly detect it most of the time
01:25:42Cosmo^right, we'll see how my battery calibration goes this time ...
01:25:44Cosmo^night night
01:25:56wowanamegood luck
01:34:15 Quit krnlyng (Remote host closed the connection)
01:36:22lolhatz3000so 12 hours ago i discovered rockbox, which was really exciting for me. my excitement then skyrocketed when i found that it was fully functional and stable on my itty bitty sansa clip zip. and now, pretty much, my entire life has totally changed in these past 12 hours of fiddling with my rockbox clipzip aka my new personal jesus.
01:36:52lolhatz3000now all i want to do is contribute something to the project
01:37:32lolhatz3000is everyone here a contributor in some way?
01:38:07gevaertsSome of us
01:38:43 Quit wowaname (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:39:23lolhatz3000cool cool. im gonna check out the site and see what still needs to be done, then find out what i can do within my skillset
01:40:18lolhatz3000(which, admittedly, isnt too spectacular)
01:40:52gevaertsMost poeple have started small :)
01:41:03 Join wowaname [0] (
01:41:54lolhatz3000then small i shall start. just as long as i start somewhere on the path to salvation. salvation being rockbox
01:42:33lolhatz3000(it's seriously changed a good chunk of my life already)
01:42:55 Join amayer [0] (
01:44:18lolhatz3000its why im coming off so extra dramatic. you have no idea how perfect this is for me and how much better this is going to make everything in life for me. i am nowhere without that clipzip clipped to my belt buckle with a pair of srh750djs hanging off
01:45:49lolhatz3000i have a life threatening case of gothic/industrial music addiction. but now i have a proper compressor i can configure on that tiny player.
01:45:53wowaname<3 music
01:46:00wowanameindustrial is cool
01:46:03wowanamehold on
01:46:23lolhatz3000wowaname: PEE EM?
01:46:23wowanamebefore mod gets pissed off at me again
01:46:32scorche|shi was just about to ;)
01:46:58lolhatz3000ive read the rules. i jsut needed to express my abolute joy about this somewhere
01:47:16wowanamei've been through the drill
01:47:44lolhatz3000i came here though because i want to learn more about rockbox and do anything i can to build and expand on it
01:49:39scorche|shnothing says you cant be in both ;)
01:49:54wowanamestop winking it's creepy
01:52:34lolhatz3000if youre coming onto me
01:52:47lolhatz3000i am totally receptive right now because of my euphoric state
01:59:19 Join Xerion [0] (
02:03:23wowanameCosmo^» hey if you need to transfer with usb, use the fallback image
02:03:27wowanameit's glitchy as hell
02:03:29wowanamebut it's better with usb
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02:56:11gkwhckugel: i see. so i guess its not really possible to fit the simplest rockbox in 256K+64K RAM?
02:56:58funmancertainly not without lots of work
02:57:01wowanamewait gkwhc what player arer you talking about
02:57:11wowanameyou could trim half the features
02:57:21wowanameit'd be sad to do but it would work
03:00:18gkwhcim thinking of creating a lightweight+scalable custom player, and it looks like rockbox could be a platform
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03:03:35wowanamei mean you could cut the theme engine for a smaller rockbox
03:03:39wowanamehave just the default shit theme
03:03:44wowaname(not cabbie)
03:03:46wowaname(the fallback)
03:04:20gkwhcyeah, im really trying to find hard numbers on the size of modules, but cant seem to find any on the wiki
03:04:43JdGordyou wont find any
03:04:55JdGordand yeah, it will be tough
03:05:19JdGordwowaname: the fallback still uses the theme engine so no, it cant be pulled ou
03:05:44wowanameya i know JdGord
03:05:48wowanamelike hardcode the theme
03:05:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:06:00wowanameremove all those .rocks
03:06:14JdGordthe .rocks dont use any memory
03:06:52wowanameoh yeah that's right
03:07:02wowanamewe're talking about rom and ram
03:07:11wowanamenot disk space
03:37:20lolhatz3000lol .rocks
03:37:49lolhatz3000being a native of the oakland area, it makes me giggle everytime i see that extension
03:39:19lolhatz3000THE DEVS GOT SUM GOOOOD .ROCKS
03:39:29lolhatz3000ok im one
03:39:35wowanamei;m two
03:42:25 Join saratoga [0] (123e11e0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
03:43:27saratogagkwhc: you need about 300 KB of RAM just for codecs, then maybe another 1.5MB of memory for core OS bits
03:43:33saratogayou won't get much smaller than that
03:43:46saratogaassuming you want to have both a display and audio at least
03:48:59gkwhci see. im actually thinking of leaving out a display, and having only the pcm codec embedded. other codecs could be like "plugins" (overlays), but im not sure if thats possible
03:52:18JdGordwell thats how codecs are implemented anyway
03:52:49gkwhcoh great!
03:53:30saratogayeah codecs are plugins, typically with 1 MB of RAM
03:55:13gkwhchrm, 1MB seems rather excessive, in comparison to mp3 decompression at least
03:56:03saratogayes, as you reduce the memory available you start to lose codecs
03:56:19saratogavery simple ones (e.g. WAV) can be used with very little memory, but thats usually not a good idea
03:57:07wowanamelol wav
03:57:10saratogajust use a device with sufficient memory
03:57:20wowanamewhat's wav compared to flac exactly
03:57:40lolhatz3000flac = wav + compression
03:57:54lolhatz3000in super laymens
03:58:15wowanameyeah i should look it up if i wanna get in detail, but i'm programming in (wait for it) php now so yeah
03:58:32lolhatz3000oh damn. well oull get there, jsut keep at it
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03:59:10lolhatz3000i kept at it all my life and now i can program my own brain
03:59:27saratogaFLAC is not related to WAV
03:59:39wowanamesaratoga» i iunderstand that
03:59:52wowanamebut wav is uncompressed and flac is compressed, right?
03:59:53saratogai think a basic wav parser could probably be implemented in a couple KB, but it would likely be rather inefficient
04:00:05saratogawav can actually be compressed, but usually isn't
04:00:25saratogafor simple codecs most of the memory usage is actually just buffering the compressed and uncompressed data
04:00:44lolhatz3000that was something i was gonna bring up
04:00:51saratogayou don't have to do that, but you'll waste a lot of battery life if you don't
04:01:16saratogabut realistically if you try to port to some device that requires you to optimize the codecs to get them to fit you will fail
04:01:18lolhatz3000it doesnt take much to decode a flac processor wise, but its gonna be a huge stream of data going through
04:01:56saratogabecause that means you've probably underestimated the amount of work involved by probably 100x, and so you'll give up
04:02:41lolhatz3000there isnt enough aspirin in the world for those kinds of tech headaches
04:03:48lolhatz3000it is *technically possible*
04:03:59lolhatz3000but this is practical world
04:04:24wowanameno this world is not practical
04:04:50lolhatz3000i am contrasting "technically"
04:05:54lolhatz3000its a mindset id get into a lot with cool tech projects i wanted to do "its technically possible!"
04:06:32lolhatz3000id try and try at it, only to find that its "in all practicality, not"
04:06:42 Quit wowaname (Quit: <3)
04:08:39lolhatz3000i mean it really all depends on the scope of the project and the projects workers skills and experience
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04:10:24lolhatz3000sorry, not to discourage anyone
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11:03:39redhotHowdy guys!
11:03:53redhotDid anyone get a brick from Clip+?
11:05:38wodzthat whould be rather small brick :P
11:06:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:09:44redhotwodz: yes, exactly! :)
11:10:07redhota match box!
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11:34:23redhotSo did anyone? :)
11:40:36pamauryI think a few people managed to brick the Clip+ but in some cases it was because of the failure of the internal storage
12:23:48redhotok then.
12:24:16redhotthe question is: can rockbox brick Clip+?
12:27:48pamauryRockbox shouldn't be able to brick the clip+. Once you have installed the bootloader you can always boot to the old firmware so you're safe even if rockbox crashes
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12:42:20redhotpamaury, yep I know, but I've got few very bad cases :) when I expected Clip+ was a brick
12:42:30redhotbut it's till alive :)
13:06:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:23:29lebelliumis anyone other than pixelma and perfectdrug able to make SVG pics here?
13:36:51gevaertslebellium: yes, you! ;)
13:38:37lebelliumThat would mean learn and take much more time to do it than a person already skilled
13:38:40lebelliumI don't see it worth it
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13:39:36gevaertsSuppose for a moment that no such person is available. What then? :)
13:43:40lebelliumThen nothing changes, several targets that should appear here like Creative Zen X-Fi 2/3 and soon YP-R1, won't :)
13:50:34lebelliumIf I had time and was able to do everything myself, I would certainly do it, but that's not the case. That's why I focuse on what I can do the best, themes, and expect help for other things that other people do better than me :)
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14:07:11kugellebellium: we have no such person right now
14:09:40 Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
14:10:59lebelliumand is it possible to add the targets to without a pic?
14:11:19lebelliumI mean temporary as long as there is no SVG pic
14:12:16wodzlebellium: yes it is
14:13:23copperwhat's the SVG problem?
14:14:44lebelliumthe problem is that we use SVG pics for and for the user manual. And making a SVG pic is not like converting PNG to JPG, you need some skills
14:15:01copperfor the DAP image?
14:15:12mortalislebellium: we use png pics there
14:15:26lebelliumbased on SVG, no?
14:15:58coppercan't you just take a press picture of the DAP?
14:16:07mortalisnot necessarily
14:16:07copperand just make a nice PNG
14:17:19lebelliumI guess dfkt did that for the Clip Zip at the beginning and he was told that a SVG pics is needed instead. Not sure though, that was long ago
14:18:14lebelliumall pics on seem to be based on SVG anyway
14:18:24mortalisfor all you need is to put png picture to playerpics folder
14:18:43lebelliumtechnically sure
14:18:47wodzsvg is the preferred way but it is not used in the build table
14:18:50lebelliumI talk about some "rules"
14:18:56wodzsvg does matter for manual
14:19:50lebelliumI'll see if I can do something for Zen X-Fi 2/3 then
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14:23:58gevaertspng is an acceptable temporary solution for
14:24:06gevaertsIt's *not* a good long-term thing
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14:34:51lebelliumand what's the rule about white or black rockbox bootscreen?
14:35:33lebelliumlooks like more recent targets have a black one?
14:38:51wodzwhite is for b&w targets IIRC
14:39:35lebelliumseveral colour targets have a white background here
14:39:41lebelliumbut they are all older
14:39:42wodzhmm, not necessarily
14:39:53wodzpick what look better :-)
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14:40:23*gevaerts bets that zero monochrome targets actually have a white background anywhere :)
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14:58:36lebelliumZen X-fi 3:
14:58:40lebelliumis it good enough? :)
15:03:31kugellebellium: do you have the svg?
15:03:55lebelliumthe all discussion was that I can't make an SVG :)
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15:04:34kugelso where is that from?
15:04:34lebelliumI did it from the official press pic, because wodz and gevaerts said it's enough for a temporary solution
15:05:48kugelwell, "png" is, but using copyrighted pictures isnt (even less if they're modified)
15:06:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:06:18lebelliumthen I don't see how I could make it without SVG
15:07:35lebelliumyou would probably not see much difference between official pic and SVG on a 80px high pic but well, okay, I give up :)
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15:11:34pamauryI can try to make SVGs but i'm not really used to it so I think it's a good to waste my time, but I can try
15:11:44pamaury*good way
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16:07:04lebelliumlol... I just can't use inkscape
16:07:08lebelliumbut at least I tried :)
16:10:38 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
16:12:19lebelliumlebellium/R1/R1rockboxed2.svg"> looks at bit better but still not great
16:12:24pamaurylebellium: not that bad, but a bit to "blurry"
16:12:35pamaurythe second one is better
16:13:12lebelliumyes but still far from pixelma/perfectdrug usual job. That's why I also think it's waste of time
16:15:43lebelliumI don't know the trick to get proper rendering
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16:45:30kugelman, someone finally fix urls that contain nicks in the irc log viewer
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16:50:34lebelliumkugel: did you have time to look at the R0 sim? it's fixed now
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17:52:12lebelliumI don't know why, it says "warning! image not found"
17:52:54lebelliumthe same for
17:53:05lebelliumthere is no missing pic though AFAIK
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21:33:46alien_hello, I am considering buying an ipod classic 6Generation, the 160G model. I found some websites that claim rockbox works on it on top of emcore... does anyone have it running?
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21:37:03 Quit lebellium (Read error: No route to host)
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21:38:43AlexPwell, assuming there aren't different version of the classic I don't know about
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22:06:25 Join jlbiasini [0] (
22:16:12 Quit y4n (Quit: We're fucking 3LN!)
22:35:03Cosmo^hmm, anyone around to give me a little hand with battery calibration?
22:37:46 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
22:38:58Cosmo^I've been doing some battery benches and attempting to add a array to the percent_to_volt_discharge table in powermgmt-ipod-pcf.c for my iPod Classic 6G, but the changes don't seem to be reflected at runtime in the way I expect
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23:06:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:24:05jlbiasinipamaury: ping
23:25:34jlbiasini2 plain simple bugs correction to push g#620 and g#621
23:25:37fs-bluebotGerrit review #620 at : fuze+/keymaps: define Cancel over Menu in EQ context by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/20/620/1)
23:25:39fs-bluebotGerrit review #621 at : fuze+: fix volume bottom limit by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/21/621/1)
23:44:28 Quit alien_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:47:28 Quit lorenzo92 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:48:48 Join lebellium_ [0] (
23:50:45pamauryjlbiasini: I'll look at this tomorrow, too tired now, going to bed
23:51:07pamauryThis week I'm on fire, article deadline friday and a lot of work to be done until then
23:51:25 Quit lebellium (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:51:28 Nick lebellium_ is now known as lebellium (
23:51:33jlbiasiniok, but those are REALLY trivial
23:51:44jlbiasinino hurry anyway

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