#rockbox 2013-09-17

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#rockbox log for 2013-09-17

00:11:32	kugel	gkwhc: we run on 80MHz ARMs and 2.x MB RAM
00:12:07	gevaerts	Don't combine those two with a colour LCD though
00:12:43	lebellium	or only with a good colour LCD like C200 \o/
00:13:10	gevaerts	lebellium: actually, the c200v2 is what I have in mind :)
00:13:23	gevaerts	2.something MB RAM and a colour screen
00:13:36	gevaerts	That means struggling to get everything to fit
00:15:41	lebellium	The V2 has more RAM or less than the V1? I don't remember
00:16:11	lebellium	kugel: if you have time to look at it, the R0 sim should work properly now :)
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00:56:01	Cosmo^	'ey dudes ...
00:56:34	Cosmo^	how exactly do the values in powermgmt c files map to percentage values in rockbox?
00:56:46	Cosmo^	it seems that my changes didn't exactly map quite as I expected ...
01:00
01:01:52		Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:05:40		Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130909203154])
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01:18:58	Cosmo^	also, the USB disk mount seems to be exceptionally buggy on my iPod Classic
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01:24:18	wowaname	Cosmo^» it is
01:24:35	Cosmo^	well that answers that then 8)
01:24:44	wowaname	use GNU/Linux to transfer stuff
01:24:55		Quit Zarggg (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:24:59	wowaname	Windows will fubar the disk and you will have to format
01:25:06	Cosmo^	I've not had that so far
01:25:12	Cosmo^	more that it just doesn't properly detect it most of the time
01:25:42	Cosmo^	right, we'll see how my battery calibration goes this time ...
01:25:44	Cosmo^	night night
01:25:48	wowaname	nn
01:25:56	wowaname	good luck
01:34:15		Quit krnlyng (Remote host closed the connection)
01:36:22	lolhatz3000	so 12 hours ago i discovered rockbox, which was really exciting for me. my excitement then skyrocketed when i found that it was fully functional and stable on my itty bitty sansa clip zip. and now, pretty much, my entire life has totally changed in these past 12 hours of fiddling with my rockbox clipzip aka my new personal jesus.
01:36:52	lolhatz3000	now all i want to do is contribute something to the project
01:37:32	lolhatz3000	is everyone here a contributor in some way?
01:38:07	gevaerts	Some of us
01:38:43		Quit wowaname (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:39:23	lolhatz3000	cool cool. im gonna check out the site and see what still needs to be done, then find out what i can do within my skillset
01:40:18	lolhatz3000	(which, admittedly, isnt too spectacular)
01:40:52	gevaerts	Most poeple have started small :)
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01:41:54	lolhatz3000	then small i shall start. just as long as i start somewhere on the path to salvation. salvation being rockbox
01:42:13	wowaname	lol
01:42:15	wowaname	yes
01:42:33	lolhatz3000	(it's seriously changed a good chunk of my life already)
01:42:37	wowaname	^
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01:44:18	lolhatz3000	its why im coming off so extra dramatic. you have no idea how perfect this is for me and how much better this is going to make everything in life for me. i am nowhere without that clipzip clipped to my belt buckle with a pair of srh750djs hanging off
01:45:44	wowaname	lol
01:45:47	wowaname	ya
01:45:49	lolhatz3000	i have a life threatening case of gothic/industrial music addiction. but now i have a proper compressor i can configure on that tiny player.
01:45:53	wowaname	<3 music
01:46:00	wowaname	industrial is cool
01:46:03	wowaname	hold on
01:46:04	wowaname	pm
01:46:23	lolhatz3000	wowaname: PEE EM?
01:46:23	wowaname	before mod gets pissed off at me again
01:46:32	scorche\|sh	i was just about to ;)
01:46:38	wowaname	lol
01:46:58	lolhatz3000	ive read the rules. i jsut needed to express my abolute joy about this somewhere
01:47:09	wowaname	#rockbox-community
01:47:16	wowaname	i've been through the drill
01:47:44	lolhatz3000	i came here though because i want to learn more about rockbox and do anything i can to build and expand on it
01:49:39	scorche\|sh	nothing says you cant be in both ;)
01:49:54	wowaname	stop winking it's creepy
01:49:54	wowaname	lel
01:50:01	scorche\|sh	;(
01:50:47	wowaname	lol
01:52:34	lolhatz3000	if youre coming onto me
01:52:47	lolhatz3000	i am totally receptive right now because of my euphoric state
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02:00
02:03:23	wowaname	Cosmo^» hey if you need to transfer with usb, use the fallback image
02:03:27	wowaname	it's glitchy as hell
02:03:29	wowaname	but it's better with usb
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02:56:11	gkwhc	kugel: i see. so i guess its not really possible to fit the simplest rockbox in 256K+64K RAM?
02:56:58	funman	certainly not without lots of work
02:57:01	wowaname	wait gkwhc what player arer you talking about
02:57:11	wowaname	you could trim half the features
02:57:16	wowaname	settings
02:57:21	wowaname	it'd be sad to do but it would work
03:00
03:00:18	gkwhc	im thinking of creating a lightweight+scalable custom player, and it looks like rockbox could be a platform
03:03:19	wowaname	nice
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03:03:35	wowaname	i mean you could cut the theme engine for a smaller rockbox
03:03:39	wowaname	have just the default shit theme
03:03:44	wowaname	(not cabbie)
03:03:46	wowaname	(the fallback)
03:04:20	gkwhc	yeah, im really trying to find hard numbers on the size of modules, but cant seem to find any on the wiki
03:04:43	JdGord	you wont find any
03:04:55	JdGord	and yeah, it will be tough
03:05:19	JdGord	wowaname: the fallback still uses the theme engine so no, it cant be pulled ou
03:05:44	wowaname	ya i know JdGord
03:05:44	wowaname	but
03:05:48	wowaname	like hardcode the theme
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03:06:00	wowaname	remove all those .rocks
03:06:14	JdGord	the .rocks dont use any memory
03:06:52	wowaname	oh yeah that's right
03:06:53	wowaname	derp
03:07:02	wowaname	we're talking about rom and ram
03:07:11	wowaname	not disk space
03:07:22	wowaname	teehee
03:37:20	lolhatz3000	lol .rocks
03:37:49	lolhatz3000	being a native of the oakland area, it makes me giggle everytime i see that extension
03:38:39	wowaname	lol
03:39:19	lolhatz3000	THE DEVS GOT SUM GOOOOD .ROCKS
03:39:29	lolhatz3000	ok im one
03:39:33	lolhatz3000	done*
03:39:35	wowaname	i;m two
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03:43:27	saratoga	gkwhc: you need about 300 KB of RAM just for codecs, then maybe another 1.5MB of memory for core OS bits
03:43:33	saratoga	you won't get much smaller than that
03:43:46	saratoga	assuming you want to have both a display and audio at least
03:44:05	wowaname	D:
03:48:59	gkwhc	i see. im actually thinking of leaving out a display, and having only the pcm codec embedded. other codecs could be like "plugins" (overlays), but im not sure if thats possible
03:52:18	JdGord	well thats how codecs are implemented anyway
03:52:49	gkwhc	oh great!
03:53:30	saratoga	yeah codecs are plugins, typically with 1 MB of RAM
03:53:35	wowaname	:\
03:55:13	gkwhc	hrm, 1MB seems rather excessive, in comparison to mp3 decompression at least
03:56:03	saratoga	yes, as you reduce the memory available you start to lose codecs
03:56:19	saratoga	very simple ones (e.g. WAV) can be used with very little memory, but thats usually not a good idea
03:57:07	wowaname	lol wav
03:57:10	saratoga	just use a device with sufficient memory
03:57:20	wowaname	what's wav compared to flac exactly
03:57:40	lolhatz3000	flac = wav + compression
03:57:46	wowaname	oh
03:57:46	wowaname	ty
03:57:54	lolhatz3000	in super laymens
03:57:59	wowaname	ya
03:58:15	wowaname	yeah i should look it up if i wanna get in detail, but i'm programming in (wait for it) php now so yeah
03:58:32	lolhatz3000	oh damn. well oull get there, jsut keep at it
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03:59:10	lolhatz3000	i kept at it all my life and now i can program my own brain
03:59:27	saratoga	FLAC is not related to WAV
03:59:39	wowaname	saratoga» i iunderstand that
03:59:52	wowaname	but wav is uncompressed and flac is compressed, right?
03:59:53	saratoga	i think a basic wav parser could probably be implemented in a couple KB, but it would likely be rather inefficient
04:00
04:00:05	saratoga	wav can actually be compressed, but usually isn't
04:00:15	wowaname	o
04:00:25	saratoga	for simple codecs most of the memory usage is actually just buffering the compressed and uncompressed data
04:00:44	lolhatz3000	that was something i was gonna bring up
04:00:51	saratoga	you don't have to do that, but you'll waste a lot of battery life if you don't
04:01:16	saratoga	but realistically if you try to port to some device that requires you to optimize the codecs to get them to fit you will fail
04:01:18	lolhatz3000	it doesnt take much to decode a flac processor wise, but its gonna be a huge stream of data going through
04:01:56	saratoga	because that means you've probably underestimated the amount of work involved by probably 100x, and so you'll give up
04:02:17	lolhatz3000	^
04:02:41	lolhatz3000	there isnt enough aspirin in the world for those kinds of tech headaches
04:03:48	lolhatz3000	it is technically possible
04:03:59	lolhatz3000	but this is practical world
04:04:24	wowaname	no this world is not practical
04:04:25	wowaname	:p
04:04:50	lolhatz3000	i am contrasting "technically"
04:05:30	wowaname	lol
04:05:54	lolhatz3000	its a mindset id get into a lot with cool tech projects i wanted to do "its technically possible!"
04:06:32	lolhatz3000	id try and try at it, only to find that its "in all practicality, not"
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04:08:39	lolhatz3000	i mean it really all depends on the scope of the project and the projects workers skills and experience
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04:10:24	lolhatz3000	sorry, not to discourage anyone
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11:03:39	redhot	Howdy guys!
11:03:53	redhot	Did anyone get a brick from Clip+?
11:05:38	wodz	that whould be rather small brick :P
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11:09:44	redhot	wodz: yes, exactly! :)
11:10:07	redhot	a match box!
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11:34:23	redhot	So did anyone? :)
11:40:36	pamaury	I think a few people managed to brick the Clip+ but in some cases it was because of the failure of the internal storage
12:00
12:23:48	redhot	ok then.
12:24:16	redhot	the question is: can rockbox brick Clip+?
12:24:19	redhot	:)
12:27:48	pamaury	Rockbox shouldn't be able to brick the clip+. Once you have installed the bootloader you can always boot to the old firmware so you're safe even if rockbox crashes
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12:42:20	redhot	pamaury, yep I know, but I've got few very bad cases :) when I expected Clip+ was a brick
12:42:30	redhot	but it's till alive :)
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13:23:29	lebellium	is anyone other than pixelma and perfectdrug able to make SVG pics here?
13:36:51	gevaerts	lebellium: yes, you! ;)
13:37:04	lebellium	:(
13:38:37	lebellium	That would mean learn and take much more time to do it than a person already skilled
13:38:40	lebellium	I don't see it worth it
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13:39:36	gevaerts	Suppose for a moment that no such person is available. What then? :)
13:43:40	lebellium	Then nothing changes, several targets that should appear here http://build.rockbox.org/ like Creative Zen X-Fi 2/3 and soon YP-R1, won't :)
13:50:34	lebellium	If I had time and was able to do everything myself, I would certainly do it, but that's not the case. That's why I focuse on what I can do the best, themes, and expect help for other things that other people do better than me :)
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14:07:11	kugel	lebellium: we have no such person right now
14:09:40		Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
14:10:18	lebellium	ok
14:10:59	lebellium	and is it possible to add the targets to http://build.rockbox.org/ without a pic?
14:11:19	lebellium	I mean temporary as long as there is no SVG pic
14:12:16	wodz	lebellium: yes it is
14:13:23	copper	what's the SVG problem?
14:14:44	lebellium	the problem is that we use SVG pics for http://build.rockbox.org/ and for the user manual. And making a SVG pic is not like converting PNG to JPG, you need some skills
14:15:01	copper	for the DAP image?
14:15:04	lebellium	yes
14:15:12	mortalis	lebellium: we use png pics there
14:15:26	lebellium	based on SVG, no?
14:15:58	copper	can't you just take a press picture of the DAP?
14:16:07	mortalis	not necessarily
14:16:07	copper	and just make a nice PNG
14:17:19	lebellium	I guess dfkt did that for the Clip Zip at the beginning and he was told that a SVG pics is needed instead. Not sure though, that was long ago
14:18:14	lebellium	all pics on http://build.rockbox.org/ seem to be based on SVG anyway
14:18:24	mortalis	for build.rockbox.org all you need is to put png picture to playerpics folder
14:18:26	mortalis	http://git.rockbox.org/?p=www.git;a=tree;f=playerpics;h=8f9b92bde985951dc396bb90e83e0f7b08655e3e;hb=refs/heads/master
14:18:43	lebellium	technically sure
14:18:47	wodz	svg is the preferred way but it is not used in the build table
14:18:50	lebellium	I talk about some "rules"
14:18:56	wodz	svg does matter for manual
14:19:36	lebellium	ok
14:19:50	lebellium	I'll see if I can do something for Zen X-Fi 2/3 then
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14:23:58	gevaerts	png is an acceptable temporary solution for build.rockbox.org
14:24:06	gevaerts	It's not a good long-term thing
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14:34:51	lebellium	and what's the rule about white or black rockbox bootscreen?
14:35:33	lebellium	looks like more recent targets have a black one?
14:38:51	wodz	white is for b&w targets IIRC
14:39:35	lebellium	several colour targets have a white background here http://build.rockbox.org/
14:39:41	lebellium	but they are all older
14:39:42	wodz	hmm, not necessarily
14:39:53	wodz	pick what look better :-)
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14:40:23	*	gevaerts bets that zero monochrome targets actually have a white background anywhere :)
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14:58:36	lebellium	Zen X-fi 3: http://imageshack.us/a/img18/7100/zqhq.png
14:58:40	lebellium	is it good enough? :)
15:00
15:03:31	kugel	lebellium: do you have the svg?
15:03:55	lebellium	the all discussion was that I can't make an SVG :)
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15:04:34	kugel	so where is that from?
15:04:34	lebellium	I did it from the official press pic, because wodz and gevaerts said it's enough for a temporary solution
15:05:48	kugel	well, "png" is, but using copyrighted pictures isnt (even less if they're modified)
15:06:05	lebellium	arf...
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15:06:18	lebellium	then I don't see how I could make it without SVG
15:07:35	lebellium	you would probably not see much difference between official pic and SVG on a 80px high pic but well, okay, I give up :)
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15:11:34	pamaury	I can try to make SVGs but i'm not really used to it so I think it's a good to waste my time, but I can try
15:11:44	pamaury	*good way
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16:06:57	lebellium	lebellium/R1/R1rockboxed.svg">http://media.generationmp3.com/lebellium/R1/R1rockboxed.svg
16:07:04	lebellium	lol... I just can't use inkscape
16:07:08	lebellium	but at least I tried :)
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16:12:19	lebellium	lebellium/R1/R1rockboxed2.svg">http://media.generationmp3.com/lebellium/R1/R1rockboxed2.svg looks at bit better but still not great
16:12:24	pamaury	lebellium: not that bad, but a bit to "blurry"
16:12:35	pamaury	the second one is better
16:13:12	lebellium	yes but still far from pixelma/perfectdrug usual job. That's why I also think it's waste of time
16:15:43	lebellium	I don't know the trick to get proper rendering
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16:45:30	kugel	man, someone finally fix urls that contain nicks in the irc log viewer
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16:50:34	lebellium	kugel: did you have time to look at the R0 sim? it's fixed now
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17:12:39	webguest57	hello
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17:45:54	redhot_	hi
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17:52:12	lebellium	I don't know why, it says "warning! image not found" http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-mpiohd200/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-220003
17:52:54	lebellium	the same for http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-mrobe100/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-230003
17:53:05	lebellium	there is no missing pic though AFAIK
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18:14:29	redhot_	bb!
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21:33:46	alien_	hello, I am considering buying an ipod classic 6Generation, the 160G model. I found some websites that claim rockbox works on it on top of emcore... does anyone have it running?
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21:38:14	AlexP	yes
21:38:17	AlexP	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodClassicPort
21:38:43	AlexP	well, assuming there aren't different version of the classic I don't know about
21:41:18	alien_	thanks
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22:35:03	Cosmo^	hmm, anyone around to give me a little hand with battery calibration?
22:37:46		Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
22:38:58	Cosmo^	I've been doing some battery benches and attempting to add a array to the percent_to_volt_discharge table in powermgmt-ipod-pcf.c for my iPod Classic 6G, but the changes don't seem to be reflected at runtime in the way I expect
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23:24:05	jlbiasini	pamaury: ping
23:25:34	jlbiasini	2 plain simple bugs correction to push g#620 and g#621
23:25:37	fs-bluebot	Gerrit review #620 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/620 : fuze+/keymaps: define Cancel over Menu in EQ context by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/20/620/1)
23:25:39	fs-bluebot	Gerrit review #621 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/621 : fuze+: fix volume bottom limit by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/21/621/1)
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23:50:45	pamaury	jlbiasini: I'll look at this tomorrow, too tired now, going to bed
23:51:07	pamaury	This week I'm on fire, article deadline friday and a lot of work to be done until then
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23:51:33	jlbiasini	ok, but those are REALLY trivial
23:51:44	jlbiasini	no hurry anyway

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