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#rockbox log for 2013-10-04

00:00:18[Saint]It was all default settings except the compressor threshold so that the compressor was actually doing something.
00:00:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:01:55 Quit lorenzo92 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:02:04[Saint]If you're wanting to push it, go nuts. I added a manual entry and added the author to the credits as well - its good to go I believe.
00:02:34[Saint]If you find something awry, please let me know.
00:02:46 Join ikeboy [0] (
00:04:09saratogai'm not really set up to push it and am kind of busy, but it looks good to me if someone else wants to
00:04:36saratogai guess the speed up is probably because of the changed conditions in the loop, probably the slower cases run a bit less often with some files
00:06:20[Saint]I measured a slight performance hit first time around (not that you'd know it as I screwed up pasting the details in to my comment), but it turns out I screwed up the math working out the average of the three runs.
00:06:47[Saint]I was rather shocked to see that it came in with increased performance.
00:10:11 Quit ikeboy (Quit: ikeboy)
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00:18:54 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 25.0/20131001024718])
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01:50:18[Saint]Woo! Holy balls that's fast...
01:50:24 Join ikeboy [0] (
01:50:45*[Saint] just 256GB SSDed his iPod Video
01:51:11[Saint]Startup with Rockbox in OSOS is ridiculously fast.
01:51:39[Saint]Like, ~2s kinda fast.
02:00:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:04:07[Saint]Rebuilding the Database with approximately 200 hours of mp3@320 took about 3 minutes.
02:04:38[Saint]Not too shabby.
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02:28:09JdGord[Saint]: you bastard! :'(
02:28:16JdGordwanna give a to to an ol friend? :)
02:28:52[Saint]Oh, the Video.
02:29:04*JdGord wants a 256GB SSD video :)
02:29:38*[Saint] can't help but imaging how bloody kick-ass the Video would be if we could use the video decoder.
02:30:06[Saint]Screw video, its also an audio decoder, and has an additional 32MB of RAM on-board iirc.
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02:51:27*[Saint] can't figure out why JdGord's shutdown in main menu patch is just dumbly applying shutdown everywhere instead of only on the Player
02:52:29[Saint]I thought my changes (I wanted to trigger it by a define, not PLAYER_PAD detection) fucked it up, but nope...I rebased your original patch and its applying Shut Down to every target.
02:53:50[Saint]{I want to trigger this by a #define SHUTDOWN_IN_MAIN_MENU or thereabouts, but its irrelevant really as I can't figure out what is erroneous with the code I'm working with}
02:58:27 Quit ikeboy (Quit: ikeboy)
03:06:24 Quit dewlap (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
03:06:56JdGordwhat have you done?
03:14:45[Saint]I'll have another go, I think I know why it fell over.
03:43:42 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@
04:00:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:16:05[Saint]Fuck it.
04:16:15[Saint]I give up for now. This is pissing me off.
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06:18:30tertui've probably asked this before
06:18:45tertubut what's the "best" rockbox device?
06:19:43JdGordwhatever you have in your pocket
06:20:58tertulet's say i was going to buy a player with the intent of running rockbox on it
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10:41:18coppertertu: define "best"
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15:05:53Karrdehello, is there a rockbox-announce mailing list? I found one with one test message from 2006, and I don't want the volume of dev or users, I just want to be notified of new stable releases
15:07:25Karrdean RSS feed will also do
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15:32:56[Saint]Karrde: there is not, no.
15:32:58kugelKarrde: releases are announced on the users (I think?) and dev mailing lists. theres no RSS/ML just for releases
15:33:22[Saint]There used to be...but it didn't survuve the git transition.
15:33:36kugel[Saint]: ?
15:34:00[Saint]There used to be a commit ML.
15:34:37[Saint]Oh...hmmm, or did that die because of announcements dying?
15:34:56[Saint]One or the other, either way, there used to be one.
15:34:57kugelthe commit ML is a different thing
15:35:03 Part LinusN
15:35:08kugelhe asks for "stable release" announcements
15:36:06[Saint]Oh, shit, sorry - odd formatting of web client.
15:36:20[Saint]"of new stable releases" is behind the nick list. :-S
15:36:28*[Saint] apologises
15:36:49Karrdehm thanks
15:37:42[Saint]Generally speaking its a "3 month-ish, or whenever someone remembers or feels like it" schedule.
15:40:59[Saint]Karrde: For targets that actually have a stable release, there is usually no harm in running the dev builds.
15:41:37[Saint]Unless it is a period in time that is *really* close to the release date, git head builds are likely to be more stable.
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15:45:04KarrdeI'm having issues (hangs) with USB, Rockbox 3.13, and my Clip Zip, which seem to already be semi-known. The Cleanscreen that I'm using theme says "Rockbox has a known issue in this regard with certain themes on the Clip Zip" .. okay .. what part of certain themes? So I can find one I like that doesn't have the problem, or at least less often. Or do I have to find one via trial and error.
15:46:37gevaertsThe problem with that one is that rather little is actually known
15:46:57[Saint]That is a difficult question to answer. Cabbiev2 usually doesn't present any issues, but in some cases (ie. when switching between themes) it can present issues as well.
15:47:24[Saint]I have even gotten a very simple 2 line text only wps to cmake USB fail.
15:47:49[Saint]There is nothing I can say with any certainty will trigger the bug, or alleviate it.
15:48:08[Saint]And myself and various other people have spent a rather large amount of time looking.
15:49:51[Saint]No one even knows where the issue actually resides. But it seems to point to some form of hiccup in memory management.
15:50:39gevaertsWell, no. It seems to point to a plain memory access bug :)
15:50:51gevaertsI still think memory *management* itself is fine
15:52:05[Saint]The real kick in the teeth is that 9 times out of 10 when someone has a "repeatable recipe" to reproduce this issue, it only seems to be repeatable with a specific theme, on a specific build, on a specific target...its very tough.
15:53:14[Saint]I have also had cases where I am running the same theme, on the same build, on the same target - and *still* not been able to reproduce an issue that the original poster can reproduce time and time again. :)
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15:53:40[Saint]Its a whole barrel of laughs.
15:53:42Karrdethanks again
15:54:02[Saint]Not a problem, I wish I could be of more help.
15:54:45[Saint]I don't like having to say "its broken, and we don't know why", but that's the best I can offer.
15:55:13lorenzo92kugel: you used atexit() in the alsa driver, I don't like it very much, but I can't find other suitable ways of doing it, i.e. why isn't pcm_play_dma_stop() called? do you have any idea?
15:55:46lorenzo92btw I'm fixing some bugs, and yestarday I successfully recorded a radio program on YP-R0 :)
15:56:30[Saint]Nice one lorenzo92
15:57:34[Saint]Just captured as PCM? Or do you have mp3 encoder working as well?
16:01:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:02:15kugellorenzo92: pcm_play_dma_stop() is called not only at shutdown
16:02:40kugellorenzo92: we don't really have a shutdown/teardown mechanism that's why I used atexit()
16:02:56kugellorenzo92: nice!
16:05:56Karrdecool, you have a Linux installer too
16:06:01KarrdeI'll be able to play with it this weekend
16:10:20copperabout USB issues: I said a while ago that disconnecting my USB DAC before connecting a rockboxed DAP fixed most of my USB issues
16:10:44copperwell the think is, my USB DAC in question has issues on its own, on my system (getting randomly disconnected)
16:10:57copperI'm trying to fix that on its own
16:10:59Karrdewhat does DAC stand for?
16:11:10copperDigital to Analog Converter
16:11:16copperi.e. a USB "sound card"
16:11:54coppergenerally speaking, I've ALWAYS had USB issues on Linux with all kinds of gear
16:12:09gevaertscopper: while I can easily accept that that sort of thing can happen, I still believe there's a reasonably serious rockbox bug too
16:12:23copperyeah, sure
16:12:39copperjust pointing out that there are USB problems all around, not just with Rockbox
16:12:49copper(I don't know why though)
16:12:52gevaertsOh indeed, but that's no excuse :)
16:13:50copperis it difficult to write USB drivers and / or to design USB gear?
16:14:09copperare USB specs complicated?
16:14:33copperseems to me that is has always been a clusterfuck
16:14:52copperfor as long as I can remember
16:15:05gevaertsDepends. I don't think the hardware side is easy at all
16:15:44*[Saint] just purchased a 10.4A microUSB power-pack for $40
16:15:55[Saint]bah, channels...whoops.
16:18:07 Quit Kohlrabi (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:19:26copperalso, why would my USB DAC show a Human Interface Device in the list of USB devices?
16:19:42copperaren't those supposed to be mice and keyboards?
16:20:42[Saint]ANything a human interfaces with that can control the machine in some fashion is a HID device afaik.
16:21:14copperlike what?
16:21:23[Saint]I assume you can control playback or system volume from the device?
16:21:39copperthe only "interface" I can see is a PCM ALSA mixer
16:21:52[Saint]Well, there ya go.
16:21:58copperis it always like that?
16:22:05copperPCM mixer = HID?
16:22:21copperor any hardware mixer, not just PCM per se
16:22:32copperlike "Master", "Headphones", etc
16:22:50copperer, not mixer, volume control
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16:25:26[Saint]As far as I understand it, its any USB/serial/Bluetooth/etc. connected device that reports to its host that it can present some form of control, or controls to govern the host in some fashion.
16:25:40[Saint]There's a myriad of potential applications for this.
16:26:23copperthen I don't understand this:
16:26:26[Saint]That's pretty much the loosest description of an HID device ever, though.
16:26:32copper"The bandwidth allocation might fail because of the HID interface on
16:26:32copperyour audio device. If you can get along with it, unbinding that
16:26:33copperinterface might help"
16:26:47gevaerts[Saint]: the chip they use probably supports some buttons
16:26:53copperI did that, "unbind" the HID of my USB DAC, yet volume control still works
16:27:29gevaertsHmmm, mis-tabbed
16:27:38gevaertsMixers and things are *not* HID
16:27:43*copper is blindly following instructions that he doesn't understand
16:27:52gevaertsbuttons are, and possibly LEDs
16:28:18copperthen maybe it's a feature that the USB controller on the DAC supports, but isn't implemented in hardware, like you said
16:28:51[Saint]Heh, wikipedia's description is about as vague as mine: "According to the HID specification, a device is described, during the report mode, as a set of controls or group of controls. Controls are matched by a field containing the data, and another containing a usage tag. Each usage tag is described in the spec as the constructor suggested use of the data described in the report mode."
16:29:30[Saint]"HID is a thing that says it can control stuff" ...heh.
16:29:51gevaertsWell yes. That's about as specific as you can get without resorting to common examples
16:30:01gevaertsBut "audio controls" are part of the audio spec
16:30:52 Quit tertu (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
16:35:47pamauryone of the issues with audio controls (in the usb spec) is that you can build arbitrary complex "circuits", just like with Intel HDA, so unless the kernel driver is very smart, it cannot map the audio controls to something reasonable unless your device is trivial and/or the audio controls have standard names
16:36:37pamaurymaybe that got better but when I designed usb audio for rockbox, alsa would recognise audio controls only if they had specific names, which of course you can only find in the alsa source code...
16:36:39copperbtw, I can only speak of USB on Linux, since I stopped using Windows pretty much around the time I started buying my first USB devices
16:37:16[Saint]My phone can control playback and volume on my desktop over Bluetooth.
16:37:25[Saint]I got a bit or a surprise when I discovered that one.
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16:39:28copperI can imagine
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16:46:48[Saint]Hmmm, I suspect this is similar to your DAC, copper:
16:46:51[Saint]" Even uninterruptible power supplies declare themselves under this class, despite the fact they often have no human interface at all. Any device can be a USB HID class device as long as a designer meets the USB HID class logical specifications"
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16:52:44copperI see
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17:01:26lorenzo92[Saint]: complete encoding features, fully rockboxian :)
17:02:18lorenzo92to say, I exploit alsa to grab pcm frames, but encoding process AND volume control and such is done by rockbox (as it happens with playback)
17:02:47[Saint]It wouldn't make much sense, but I wonder if any of that work could be pushed into RaaA hosted on Android
17:03:14lorenzo92actually it does make sense (there are a lot of crappy applications to record)
17:03:54lorenzo92I also wanted to port recording to SDL, but I discovered that it doesn't have rec capability :/ any idea? I had a look a portalaudio, but i don't know the topic :)
17:04:55kugel[Saint]: recording on android can be easily supported, using the platform APIs, it's just that someone has to do it
17:05:13kugellorenzo92 has written an ALSA recording backend which cannot be used on android
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17:05:26lorenzo92kugel: yeah, but I might have a look at android too
17:05:48lorenzo92...hoping that an async callback is less buggy ... xD
17:06:12kugelless buggy than?
17:10:14 Quit michaelni_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
17:10:22lorenzo92the alsa callback system
17:11:16kugelit is buggy?
17:11:50lorenzo92well not buggy, it works, but not with multiple applications (on the ypr0 fortunately this problem does not exists tough)
17:12:03lorenzo92i wanted to say safer
17:12:11lorenzo92i'll give a look at android code
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17:13:26lorenzo92kugel: oh I see... you used AudioTrack, i used this some time ago for a project...
17:15:01 Quit mortalis (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
17:15:19kugellorenzo92: this is not a bug, it's the inherent design of alsa
17:15:37kugelit's the reason pulseaudio exists in the first place :)
17:16:54kugelhowever, for pulseaudio-enabed systems you can still use the alsa api (because there is an alsa plugin that routes PCM to PA) and cooperate with other applications
17:18:16lorenzo92indeed, pulseaudio is a server that handles the various streams as i know, anyway it seems a nice project for me to add recording to Android :)
17:18:29kugellorenzo92: note the comment in pcm-alsa.c, about the sound device to be opened. "default" should work with pulseaudio
17:19:24lorenzo92yeah indeed, I prefer to stay stick with device coordinates for R0
17:19:42kugel(it didn't work for some reason when I tried to use it, but plughw0:0 did. I think this was when we enabled it for ypr0???)
17:21:19lorenzo92i think so ... afaik alsa is not used anywhere else
17:21:59kugeli guess we could add/edit the global asoundrc file to make "default" work on ypr0
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17:31:16lorenzo92I prefer to avoid this...maybe an ifdef is more suitable
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17:31:38lorenzo92mainly because there are some other ROMs around ...
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21:18:13lorenzo92kugel: I'm still getting strange issues on device. Recording perfectly works when I *completely* disable playback (ie. don't open playback device at startup, only capture when requested)
21:18:50lorenzo92otherwise I get Invald argument error...even tough I issue drain and close and even a sleep of 1 second after .
21:20:59kugellorenzo92: which function is failing exactly?
21:21:23lorenzo92kugel: snd_pcm_open(&handle, device, direction, 0)
21:21:35kugellorenzo92: perhaps you need plughw0,1 in this case?
21:21:52kugelperhaps the card numbers are set up differently depending on what you open first least I don't think so
21:22:06lorenzo92I'll try
21:23:42kugellorenzo92: on my laptop the rec device gets an extra sub-device, such that for playback it's hw:0,0 and for record hw:0,1
21:24:27kugelassuming I understand the aplay/arec -l output currently
21:25:03lorenzo92aplay -l on device doesn't show anything special
21:25:39lorenzo92yes I meant it ;)
21:29:24kugelthe error message implies that one of the parameters is incorrect, and the device one is the only where something can be wrong :)
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21:31:15lorenzo92kugel: the point is is *works* if I avoid opening a playback stream before :S
21:31:44lorenzo92now before continuing i try to send the rockbox binary via serial port to see if it is faster for testing ^^
21:32:20kugelright, I'm guessing the alsa driver sets things up differently depending on whether you open playback or record first
21:33:05kugel"plughw:0,0" cannot work for both playback and record at the same time IIUC
21:33:36lorenzo92okay, then it is also version or kernel dependent, on pc it works anyways xD
21:35:16kugelit's known that your experience with alsa may vary depending on the driver (and the driver quality)
21:37:26lorenzo92oh yes absolutely, in fact the recording part of the driver is not intended to be used ^^
21:39:06lorenzo92in the original firmware there is no possibility to record
21:40:10kugelthat doesn't mean the recording isn't intended to be used. pretty sure the driver comes from the SoC vendor (with rec capabilities) and Samsung decided against providing the functionality
21:41:15kugelthe ypr0 doesn't even have mic
21:42:12lorenzo92no luck even with plughw:0,1
21:42:41kugelwhat does "arecord -L" give?
21:42:59lorenzo92only hw:0,0
21:43:01kugelfor a) when it works and b) when it doesnt
21:45:04lorenzo92should it change?
21:45:13kugelnot sure
21:52:25lorenzo92strange, today it doesn't work even without initializing playback before :(
21:52:40lorenzo92i changed something indeed but I did not think so much
22:01:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:04:04[Saint]famous last words. ;)
22:07:07lorenzo92indeed xD
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22:32:27lorenzo92kugel: oh! sometimes the solution is trivial: use two separate handles ^^
22:34:06kugellorenzo92: oh haha, there you have your invalid argumetn :p
22:34:30lorenzo92i still don't know if that works, but at least it does not complain when opening, let me adapt the code
22:34:45lorenzo92kugel: well I tought about this, but then why the hell works on my pc? haha
22:35:34kugellorenzo92: different driver i guess
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22:45:22lorenzo92now it is better, but it doesn't actually grab samples, i think i'm missing a bit somewhere (I hope)
22:47:03*lorenzo92 wonders how much will last his usb port ...
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22:59:56kugellorenzo92: but recording did already work?
23:00:21lorenzo92it worked only when I completely remove the playback handle...
23:01:09kugeldid you perhaps accidently use the playback handle for a record function?
23:07:43 Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving)
23:09:17lorenzo92kugel: i don't know actually, I'm a bit puzzled. tough it seems the correct way to open both streams in one go
23:09:43Karrdedoes rockbox have any competition?
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23:41:35gevaertsYou could just say "no"
23:43:24ikeboyWell, if you're not on an ipod then no
23:43:53gevaertsSo what actual alternatives are there on an ipod?
23:44:19 Quit Narod ()
23:48:15ikeboyI just remembered there's one for the sansa e200 also at
23:50:12 Join robin0800 [0] (
23:50:55gevaertsRight. A project that basically died four to five years ago (and never was focused on audio playback in the first place) was forked at about that time to provide a short-lived port to another target
23:51:01gevaertsYes, that's a rockbox alternative
23:52:11ikeboyThey didn't say GOOD alternative
23:52:25ikeboyBesides, the OF is also an "alternative"
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