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#rockbox log for 2013-10-26

00:11:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:13:15 Quit Zagor (Quit: Clint excited)
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04:48:42[Saint]wow...that was slightly dangerous pamaury. ;)
04:49:21[Saint]"and...and...I want a pony, and a race car, and I want to be able to press a button and make it fly, ..." :)
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13:23:53fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 2778e76, 225 builds, 36 clients.
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13:29:41fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 348 seconds.
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16:30:24alecjwHi, can I get write access to the wiki please?
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16:57:43alecjwOr if not, could someone add a note to this page saying that I had success with a Kingston 16GB ultimate 266x in an ipod mini 1g please?
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17:17:13pamaurygevaerts: how do we give write access ?
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17:21:43soapto the wiki? Add them to the page still, no?
17:22:12soap(I'll admit to not having done it since the software update a while ago)
17:29:37 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
17:32:49pamauryalecjw: what is your wiki name ?
17:35:30fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 27111d8, 225 builds, 35 clients.
17:36:24 Quit stoffel_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
17:37:38alecjwpamaury: AlecJW
17:39:06pamaurydone, it should work now
17:40:00soapNot sure AlecJW meets the "real name" rule...
17:40:28fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 297 seconds.
17:41:32lebelliumoh finally this stupid rule over! Please add "lebellium" too :)
17:42:56alecjwpamaury: thanks
17:43:11pamauryAh yeah I forgot that rule, he puts his real name on his wiki page though
17:44:39alecjwuhhh I didn't realise my wikiname had to be a real name
17:45:40pamauryit's quite of written in a big red font on user registration form no ?
17:45:45pamaury*kind of
17:46:39alecjwI misread and thought that meant I had to give a real name in the "real name" field rather than for the wikiname
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17:49:55alecjwAh I can't seem to login... I only wanted to make one edit anyway, could someone just add "Kingston 16GB ultimate 266x worked on a mini 1g" to this page, in the list of working cards please?
17:54:30alecjwoh actually it lets me log in now i've reset my password... odd
17:56:19alecjwWhat's the motive for this real name policy? It seems rather draconian and I can't think of any benefit it would have
17:57:43grawity"TODO. - why"
17:57:45lebelliumthere is no explanation on this page pamaury
17:57:59alecjwwas about to say...
17:58:22lebelliumthe explanation can be found in a very old email in the mailing list
18:00:01soapIs it really such a burden?
18:00:14lebelliumlooks like it is only for me
18:00:36lebelliumbut I don't mind if I'm the only one, I'll continue my fight against this stupid policy :)
18:01:00 Quit krabador (Quit: Sto andando via)
18:02:20pamauryI don't have an opinion, whatever pseudo is fine to me as long as it is not offending. For commits though, a real name seems like a good opinion
18:04:42soapnot to put you on blast, but doesn't that P.O.V. just shift the issue and not address it head on? ;)
18:04:43 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
18:05:31lebelliumthe original reason was in case of legal issues. But as anyone can lie on his real name, I don't see why it would be easier to deal with these issues if someone gives a fake realname than if I give my real nickname
18:05:53 Join krabador [0] (~krabador_@unaffiliated/krabador)
18:05:54lebelliumbut I know we can discuss that for hours and it will never change
18:06:33 Quit krabador (Max SendQ exceeded)
18:06:39lebelliumI'm not a dev so no commit for me but I'd love to edit the wiki under my nickname
18:06:55 Join krabador [0] (~krabador_@unaffiliated/krabador)
18:07:18pamauryas you say, this can discussed endlessly, one opinion I tend to agree with is that if you use a pseudo/fakename, at some point it becomes your identify if you commit and communicate with it. So I guess the questions boils down to: do you mind interacting with people with crazy pseudo or real name like pseudo ?
18:07:39 Join stoffel [0] (
18:08:11grawityas long as it does not require emailing a scan of my ID card
18:08:54pamaurythe opinino of this project has always been that we require a real name or real name looking pseudo, since we cannot check it anyway
18:09:06foolshgrawity: Don't give them ideas. Next thing you know we'll need rfid chips implanted to make wiki edits.
18:09:39soapobviously no system is perfect the idea is to /encourage/ the sort of community which is open and frank about identity.
18:11:09lebelliumpamaury: no, we require a real, real name. If we require real name looking pseudo, I could register as "LudovicLebellium" or "LudovicDupont" or whatever, without giving my real name :)
18:11:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:12:43soapas I said there is no way to verify Jack Shit, there will always be those who, despite community expectations, decide they are special enough to not need to match the norms. That is to be expected. That also isn't a solid reason to compromise goals.
18:12:46pamauryI know several people, including devs who don't use a real name. And as you said, we cannot check it, just make it look like a real name and noone will be able to tell
18:13:04foolshI agree with the real name policy.
18:13:12foolshA chat channel is one thing.
18:13:21foolshWhat is said fades away over time, but any permanent part of this project (wiki edits, commits) should be as professional as possible.
18:13:54foolshIt's the public face of the project
18:14:14pamauryThe way I see it, it's more a matter of social trust and public image. Maybe we are just conservative fools, who cannot accept pseudos as name, granted :)
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18:32:11lebelliumpamaury: can you please add LudovicJacques to the wiki user group? :)
18:36:34 Join dewlap [0] (~dewlap@2001:5c0:1000:a::b8f)
18:46:26pamaurythat's cheating, I know it's not a real name ! :)
18:46:45lebelliumyou can't know!
18:46:48lebelliummaybe I changed my mind :)
18:47:51 Join thegeek [0] (
19:00:42lebelliumso anyone to add me to the usergroup? I have some wiki pages to edit :)
19:04:25dfktone of my clip+ has corrupt internal memory but otherwise still works fine. would it be fairly simple to point the bootloader to the external sd card to boot rockbox?
19:04:44dfkt(i guess the D2 does it like that?)
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20:00:46funmandfkt: how will you write a new bootloader on the internal storage if it's busted though ?
20:02:31funmandefine BOOTDIR "/<MicroSD1>/.rockbox" should work iirc
20:11:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:35:05pamaurydamned, it seems I've run into one or more assembler bug with the code sourcery toolchain for cortex m3
20:37:30dfktfunman, it always boots ok, and crashes a minute or ten after starting playback
20:37:40dfktnever had boot issues with it
20:38:54dfktso maybe just moving everything besides the bootloader to the card might 'fix' it, if i'm lucky
20:39:42dfkt(the exact same rockbox bootloader and firmware, and the external card works fine in another clip, it's not the cause of the issue)
20:42:51foolshpamaury: Isn't codesourcery a non free toolschain in the end?
20:43:29foolshI found this
20:43:43pamauryok found out, it isn't using the unified syntax by default
20:44:32pamauryyeah you could say so, but at some point I got fed up of loosing hours compiling stuff instead of developing
20:45:05pamauryand codesourcery isn't too bad, I just pick the command line tools, so that's really gcc
20:47:40foolshYou say that as though developing != compiling stuff for hours :)
20:48:07foolshBut I get cha'
20:48:51pamaurywell in this precise case I wanted to try something on a rknano based mp3 and I didn't have the toolchain, I could have waited a few hours to compile or I could download one and run code in ten minutes ^^
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20:49:40pamauryand it's not even if I would have learn something by compiling one by myself since I already did many times :)
20:49:54pamaurynow I can spend many hours debugging stuff :D
20:55:06*foolsh starts compiling the cortex toolchain "just in case" pamaury commits a new build target
20:56:18 Nick funman is now known as j-b (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman)
20:59:44 Nick j-b is now known as fvnman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman)
21:01:14pamauryfoolsh: I'm actually testing the feasibility of the port, we know nearly nothing about this chip. We have some information that it may have a really small amount of memory. If that's the case, we will not port to it, it would be too hard
21:01:43 Nick fvnman is now known as covrmisch (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman)
21:02:59foolshThen I can assume rockbox does no kind of kernel swapping?
21:03:21gevaertskernel swapping?
21:03:40 Quit kiwicam (Remote host closed the connection)
21:04:05foolshSorry left over term from my youth, virtual memory managment
21:05:36 Nick covrmisch is now known as funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman)
21:05:45gevaertsRight. No, most of the devices we run on don't even have an MMU, and if we'd make use of that it would be to trap errors and have a more efficient malloc. Swapping is silly on a music player
21:05:54pamauryfirst not all mp3 have a chip with a MMU, second some ports use the MMU but mostly for practical reasons, like memory access control
21:06:29pamauryI know some mp3 players OF actually do some swapping, but they are really really slow
21:07:02foolshThanks, that makes sense
21:07:26gevaertspamaury: overlay stuff, I assume?
21:07:55pamauryon imx233 I use it mostly for registers, to avoid caching
21:08:45pamauryregisters are in non-cached memory and the DRAM is mapped three times: one cached, one buffered and one uncached
21:08:48gevaertsI mean, the swapping OFs
21:08:55pamaurygevaerts: yes
21:09:17pamaurywell, I guess
21:09:49gevaertsWell, Someone once told me about some players using overlays a lot
21:09:51pamauryActually to port rockbox to the stmp3770 we would need that, because the memory is just too small
21:10:21pamauryand I know for sure older chips using overlay a lot because the memory was extremely small
21:10:39pamaurylike stmp3500
21:12:26pamaurywith a MMU, it's slightly less painful because don't need special or linker compiler support, but you still have to define what is pageable and what is not in the kernel, so it's definitely not trivial
21:13:19gevaertsWell, I'd start by getting the relocatable plugin work merged
21:13:50gevaertsAfter that, you can work on splitting out many parts of the core and make them loadable
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21:15:20pamaurythat's true, but then you would need to be able to load several plugins, and be able to swap them, what a nightmare
21:15:40pamaurybut yeah, you are probably right
21:15:53gevaertsWell, it depends
21:16:19gevaertsloading several plugins should be fairly easy
21:17:14gevaertsOf course, apps/ is fairly tangled up, so it's probably rather tricky to e.g. split out the file browser and have very little else depend on it
21:18:05 Quit liar (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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21:19:31lebelliumoh maybe I'll be more lucky with gevaerts since he didn't follow the discussion! Could you please add me to the wikiusergroup so that I can edit some pages? :)
21:19:48pamaurythe way I see it, it would be simpler to just have a small portion of firmware/ declared unpageable, which can read from internal storage. Then one would need to put the firmware at a special location on the storage so that it is contiguous and the paging code can trivially compute the address when a fault arises. You would only page code, so evicting a page would boil down to drop it
21:20:24gevaertslebellium: I read logs ;)
21:21:10gevaertspamaury: that works, but making sure it won't cause audio glitches could be tricky
21:21:48pamaurythat's the issue I saw with the OF of some STMP3770 based player: when it starts buffering, audio is glitchy because it swaps a lot
21:22:18lebelliumDamn it! At least now I can say the RB community doesn't want me to help :)
21:22:49pamauryactually on such target, one might want to optimise everything for size, because the processor is quite powerful, but larger code would result in more swap
21:23:06gevaertslebellium: we do want you to help, but we don't know who you are so we can't ask!
21:24:49gevaertspamaury: definitely, but that's only a few percent at most
21:24:54lebelliumI let my real name on the theme website. That should be enough for trust in case I cause you legal troubles :)
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21:47:20gevaertsHmm, can rockbox utility generate voices for custom builds?
21:58:58funmandfkt: I had this laying around
22:12:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:26:21dfktfunman, awesome, thanks! will give it a try asap
22:26:33dfktalso, lebellium's real name is Howard Q. Samsung
22:27:14lebelliumthey don't trust me!
22:27:18lebelliumthey want to see my ID card
22:27:37dfktyou're lucky, they wanted a blood test for my wiki account
22:30:47*funman watches his army of little dfkt clones growing up
22:30:58funmanyes, for the wiki :)
22:37:31pamauryhey cool, I have a stubbed version of hwstub running on rknano :)
22:37:46pamauryit's pretty minimal though, it only disconnect usb and hang
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23:23:55foolshpamaury: I would love to see your work as it is right now, just to see what a new target port looks like at such an early stage
23:25:54 Quit Narod ()
23:31:08pamauryfoolsh: i can upload it if you want but that's quite a mess ^^
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23:32:24 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@
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23:57:42foolshpamaury: If you just upload a diff I can work with that

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