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#rockbox log for 2013-10-29

00:08:13 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:09:04 Part foolsh
00:12:47 Join thegeek_ [0] (
00:13:08 Join Dynion [0] (4dac8371@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
00:13:10Dynionhey guys
00:14:10 Quit thegeek (Read error: Operation timed out)
00:15:01Dynioni've been trying to gain some info about the philips HDD6320... then i realised i don't know anything about it so i don't know what i should look at
00:15:30Dyniondoes anyone have any experience with the dap or it's contents?
00:19:15[Saint]wHAT DO YOU MEAN?
00:19:33[Saint]Bah. Caps.
00:20:17Dynionput rockbox on it and use it as daily player... i used to have an ipod 5th gen with rockbox and i loved it
00:21:05Dynionis it about the same quality (audio quality that is) or is there a large difference? It looks nice at least
00:23:45[Saint]For the installation, you would want to look at the wiki page for the device ( ) - which is linked from the main page.
00:24:58[Saint]As for the sound quality, it is doubtful that this device will have a sound quality as good as or better than the iPod Video.
00:25:33[Saint]But, sound quality is subjective for most, I unno.
00:26:46[Saint]But, anyway - though it may not be immediately obvious, the port status pages are linked on the main page for "unstable" targets.
00:34:54K1773RWhen i want to use the battery benchmark, all it says is: Cannot create file Plugin returned error
00:34:59K1773RIs this a known problem?
00:39:13 Join amayer [0] (~amayer@
00:43:05pamaurygevaerts: just for information, I have reverse engineered the usb packet master enough to probably forge any class analysis key
00:50:57Dynion@ saint... thanks
00:51:27Dynionalso... how's the android port going? is there any way i can help with it without being smart?
00:53:32amayerDynion: you dont have to be smart to be involved. just use rockbox, file bugs, read the wiki, update anything you see that doesnt seem correct.
00:54:01Dynioni've always done that:) i've been able to get 5 other to use rockbox too
00:54:16Dynionone guy didnt like it. i believe he's in some sewer no =)
00:55:21Dynionalso... i saw u guys are using paypall now (or i started using it since the last time i was here... dunno)
00:55:39Dynioni might make use of that option:) you guys gave me plenty of fun doing this
00:57:58Dynioni always get people... "you always have weird stuff.. tube amplifiers, chinese phones, laptops completely build to your style... and you have an APPLE IPOD????"
00:58:10Dynionthey only understand when i boot it:P
01:13:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:16:18K1773Rnevermind my question above, solved it
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03:53:11foolshI'm trying to push something to gerrit review with "git push origin HEAD:refs/for/master" like in the wiki and I'm used that command before to do so
03:53:19foolshbut I'm getting "! [remote rejected] HEAD -> refs/for/master (you are not allowed to upload merges)"
03:56:08foolshderp "git rebase"
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11:49:56K1773RDoes Rockbox offer a way to lock the interface so nobody can use it? Just like screen locking with the apple firmware.
11:54:15 Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
11:54:41ZagorK1773R: yes. it should be in the manual. which player model do you have?
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12:07:11K1773RZagor: an 6th gen iPod Classic (2007er variants). using latest (latest as of the ones available there) rockbox installed trough the emCore wiki
12:08:01wodzit has hold switch doesn't it?
12:08:25wodzZagor: any news with php / tracker issue?
12:08:50Zagorwodz: no. I have no clue what the bug is.
12:10:16gevaertsZagor: the tracker has a different issue too
12:10:39gevaertsstackoverflow seems to suggest setting date.timezone in php.ini to fix that one
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12:14:09Zagorgevaerts: done. better?
12:14:47gevaertsA pity it doesn't also magically fix the empty lines :)
12:15:00Zagor\o/ - at least one thing fixed
12:16:03 Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
12:17:51K1773Rwodz: not like the hold switch, like the GUI screenlock apple has. ie a pincode to unlock it
12:19:52gevaertsZagor: the weird thing is that the empty line issue went away for a brief time on Bagder's blog last week...
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12:32:23Zagoreuh? that's weird.
12:38:05ZagorK1773R: no we don't have that
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12:46:41wodzgevaerts: Do you remember what was the technical proposition to solve modularization of the core with help of relocatable 'modules'?
12:47:26wodzgevaerts: I recall Torne proposed something I can't find now in logs
12:47:31 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
13:10:24[Saint]K1773R: it would be trivial to implement as an lua plugin that ran on boot, but that could be rather easily subverted by anyone with a little bit of knowledge of Rockbox's inner workings.
13:11:18[Saint]If you really wanted to you could probably sit down and write it over a weekend.
13:12:07[Saint]LUA is fairly easy to pick up, and there is tonnes of example cases and documentation out there.
13:13:10[Saint]But, in general, its a fairly silly it is *so* easily subverted its not funny.
13:13:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:14:22[Saint]Even disregarding the fact that you could just mount the device and remove the plugin and use it anyway, the other really obvious way to get around it is to boot into the original firmware and get in that way. You can't do anything to secure the original firmware.
13:14:55[Saint]And not all targets allow for the removal of the OF.
13:16:17[Saint]TL;DR: Possible, certainly. And even trivial. But rather silly in the end.
13:18:44K1773R[Saint]: yea, the idea behind is more like "keep retards away from it in case anyone looks at it"
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13:25:49gevaertswodz: no. To be honest, I don't even remember any real discussion about this...
13:26:54wodzthats a pitty
13:28:29gevaertsI'll tell Torne to get in here :)
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13:47:02 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
13:47:04Tornewhat? :)
13:47:53wodzTorne: You had some idea how modularization of the core could work with help of relocatable modules
13:48:20wodzTorne: I mean symbol resolving and so on
13:48:47wodzTorne: Could you say something about possible ways?
13:49:24Torneoh. well, the "obvious" way is just to use normal ELF dynamic symbols..
13:49:44Torneand do dynamic linking the normal way
13:50:04wodzI recall you said it to be expensive
13:50:12Torneyeah, that might be considered expensive
13:50:24Tornesince it's link-by-name
13:51:03Tornelinking by ordinal would be more like how plugins currently work
13:51:17Tornewhere they're just offsets into a list of function pointers
13:51:35Tornebut there isn't really good toolchain support for linking by ordinal
13:51:45Tornesince it's basically a windows-DLL-specific concept
13:53:05Tornecontinuing to do our own adhoc thing is also an option
13:53:14Tornee.g. extending plugin api to include more core functions
13:53:46Torneand maybe have a kinda "reverse" plugin api where a plugin for a specific function can register entrypoints
13:54:09Torne(currently the "reverse" plugin API is just one symbol, the entrypoint, but we already pass arguments to it to potentially run the plugin differently, so it's not that different)
13:55:13 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
13:55:17wodzby the way If we know core exported functions pointers can't we just patch call address on plugin load instead of introducing indirect call?
13:55:17Tornenot sure what else, really :)
13:55:41Tornewodz: you could, but you'd need to have a relocation table in the plugin binary then
13:55:56Tornecurrently the indirect calls are actually in the source code of the plugin
13:56:22Torneyou could change the plugin sources so that the core functions are just defined as extern
13:56:26Torneand call them directly
13:56:32Torneand then end up with a binary with undefined symbols in it
13:56:42Tornebut then you're doing dynamic linking :)
13:57:11wodzhmm, I must read more about dynamic linking then
13:57:29Torneif you build a PIC dynamic binary, which is what you'd have to do to be able to load it at arbitrary addresses, the compiler/linker will indirect all the calls anyway via GOT/etc
13:57:54*[Saint] wonders why CE-ATA Classic transfer speed is ass under Rockbox.
13:57:59Tornethe *nix .so model doesn't really allow for that indirection not to happen
13:59:00[Saint]Compared to my trusty 5.5G Video, that should in theory have a much slower disk, getting a solid 12MB/s for bulk transfer.
13:59:05[Saint]Its odd.
13:59:23wodzTorne: So there is no simple way to have a table {addr, function name} and patch branch address on load?
13:59:23gevaerts[Saint]: it's an entirely different driver
13:59:39Tornewodz: regular position dependent binaries have exactly that (text relocations)
13:59:47[Saint]gevaerts: Oh, I know this, I just didn't think it was /that/ bad.
14:00:02Tornebut position dependent binaries are, yaknow, position dependent. you have to apply text relocs to them for all their *internal* references as well
14:00:17[Saint]And I have no idea how to improve upon it.
14:00:22[Saint]Too low level for me.
14:00:40Tornewodz: no system really uses direct branches between dynamically linked modules
14:01:10Tornetext relocations are bad, they remove your ability to share pages between processes
14:01:17Tornenot a consideration for us, since we only have one address space
14:01:32Tornebut toolchains/ABIs are not really designed around us :)
14:02:02Tornedepending on OS/ABI/etc you indirect via PLT/GOT entries, or via a DLL import table, or via other constructs
14:02:16Torneour plugin api struct is effectively an import table :)
14:02:37wodzyes that bit I understand
14:02:41Tornejust one we implement explicitly in the source, instead of implicitly in the linker and dynamic linker
14:03:10Torneanyway, even if we did have text relocs the relocation table would potentially be quite big
14:03:27Tornethe advantage of using a GOT/whatever is there's only one entry to patch for each symbol you use, instead of one for each callsite
14:03:48Torneand the table is all contiguous in memory so you can patch them all pretty efficiently (especially on paged systems where you needn't load the rest of the binary at all)
14:04:35Torneanywya, yeah, if we actually wanted to move to having a less explicit way of doing linkage between components you should probably start by studying how dynamic linking works on linux and also pecifically how it works in ARM EABI
14:04:54Tornedifferent CPU ABIs use somewhat different methods of actually linking :/
14:05:11Tornedifferent kinds/numbers of relocs, different sections with different kinds of indirection
14:05:21Tornedepends if the CPU has PC-relative addressing modes, etc
14:05:45wodzI will look at ARM only if ever
14:06:00Tornewodz: oh, another reason why people don't generally branch directly is on ARM the branch range is not normally sufficient
14:06:07Torneyou typically need to load the address from memory anyway
14:06:15Torneso you may as well have every callsite load the address from a single offset table
14:06:23wodzah right, the famoust veneers
14:06:41TorneWell, the veneers are stuff inserted by the static linker to extend branch range
14:07:00Tornewith dynamic linking, the static linker doesn't know at link time whether the target will be in range or not
14:07:04Torneso it has to be pessimistic and assume it's not
14:07:13Tornesince the dynamic linker can't easily insert a veneer
14:07:49Tornethere may be nowhere left in the address space to even create one that's close enough :)
14:08:12wodzin general case yes
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14:09:13wodzok, so the most obvious solution is to study dynamic linking and write dynamic loader
14:09:16Tornethen there's the further problem that having callsites all load the address from a single offset table means the *offset table* has to be in range of a PC-relative load ;)
14:09:38Torneso sometimes you end up jumping to an actual load instruction in the offset table which then loads the address from pc+4, or whatever
14:09:41Torneit varies :)
14:10:36wodzwell this will be the case of iram stuff, no?
14:10:54Tornehm? no, i mean, sometimes the ABI specifies that *all* dynamic symbols are invoked like that
14:11:13Torneagain, it varies with different ABIs
14:11:37Tornei don't recall all the detauls of EABI's choices in this area because symbian didn't use dynamic objects
14:11:49Tornebut rather the DLL linkage model, which is completely different
14:12:21wodzI am afraid I know too little to follow. I'
14:12:31wodzll read more and ask you once again :-)
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19:47:01crystal_Hi Guys
19:48:57crystal_is here any help channel?
19:49:06crystal_I've one question
19:49:15 Quit pretty_function (Remote host closed the connection)
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19:49:53coppercrystal_: go ahead and ask it :)
19:50:14copperif someone here knows the answer, they'll reply
19:51:17crystal_I have all music on internal memory
19:51:38crystal_but I have one album on external miniSdCard.
19:52:07crystal_and If I go to database I have double listed songs from miniSdCard only
19:53:14copperdid you check that there are, actually, no duplicates on either the internal memory or the microsd card?
19:53:35copperby connecting the DAP to your computer via USB and checking both filesystems
19:54:02copperalso, you could just try to re-initialize the database
19:54:42 Quit pretty_function (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
19:55:31crystal_there is no the same files on both memory (internal/external)
19:55:42 Quit froggyman (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
19:55:49crystal_sdcard has fat32
19:56:12crystal_I did reinitialize DB, Update etc
19:57:20crystal_is there any way to:
19:58:20crystal_restore player to factory state, I mean factory but RockBox factory state :)
20:01:27crystal_on external memory I've created directory Music and there put music files
20:02:17n1scrystal_: have you checked that there's no trash folder or similar on the sd, some computer os's create them when you try to delete files
20:03:33crystal_no way, I've wipe sdcard, and use Gparted to create fat32, after that create Music directory and put files there
20:06:08crystal_SO on sdcard is only one directory /Music/DreamThe.../files
20:07:08crystal_so maybe there is any way to wipe internal memory, like in phones (factory state)
20:07:37crystal_ok files are in OGG but I do not think this is a problem
20:08:13n1scrystal_: and you did try to reinit the database and still got duplicates?
20:08:40crystal_tried that few times
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20:10:53coppercrystal_: are you running Linux by any chance?
20:10:55n1sand there's no trash or anything on the internal memory? Does playing both of the duplicates work? Note: you might have to insert the tracks in the playlist as opposed to just clicking them as that'll add both in the same view i think (if it works like the file browser)
20:11:35crystal_yes I'm using Linux
20:12:05n1si think there are file managers that do this on linux too
20:12:41crystal_Does playing both of the duplicates work? Yes If I clik next I have two the same songe one ofter one
20:16:04n1scrystal_: ok, when playing first one of them and then the other you can see the path to the file if you open the info screen from the context menu in the wps, do they point to the same file?
20:16:51crystal_I'm not sure I have not my mp3player here, I can check this tomorrow :(
20:17:41crystal_So maybe I will check this tomorrow, and I will login here
20:18:39crystal_ok one more thing. I wander what is ##Music##
20:18:57crystal_I've got also Music on internal memory
20:19:12crystal_should I put music to Music or ##Music##?
20:20:18n1sa wild guess is that it's a directory you original firmware created, have you checked that you don't have duplicates in there?
20:21:39crystal_yes you have right there was inside that music but I delete it
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21:57:31pamaurygevaerts: I have completely broken the MQP analuser key system, I can now enable virtually any class option
22:02:27gevaertspamaury: now get it stable :)
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23:31:39pamaurygevaerts: yeah, I successfully registered the devkit on the analyser :D
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