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#rockbox log for 2013-11-05

00:00:06bluebrother^no problem
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00:17:37K1773Rwhat should i do if the automatic installer fails to detect the ipod and even the manual way it dosnt detect it? its mounted nicely and i can use it as usual
00:19:12[Saint]...I'm not even sure that is possible.
00:19:18gevaertsPut a log of what rockbox utility says on a pastebin
00:19:24[Saint]If it is mounted, it has a mount point, and you can specify this manually.
00:19:32*gevaerts asks bluebrother^ to remind us again how to get that log :)
00:19:45[Saint]Autodetection of the mount point failing is not uncommon.
00:19:56[Saint]But if its mounted, you can specify the mount point manually.
00:20:57gevaertsWhat sort of ipod is it?
00:21:10K1773R[Saint]: i did select the mountpoint correctly
00:21:27K1773Rgevaerts: 4th gen (gray)
00:21:46gevaertsWhich operating system are you using?
00:21:51*gevaerts bets it's a permissions issue
00:21:57[Saint]K1773R: so "and even the manual way it dosnt detect it?" is errouneous, or poor wording choice?
00:22:32K1773Ril show the output of both tools
00:22:40[Saint]And, yes. My initial guess is that you're not Admin.
00:22:56K1773Ri am
00:23:21K1773Rthe GUI installer tells me "Error reading partition table", its run as root of course too
00:23:28[Saint]You'll need to show us the output of RbUtils system trace, then.
00:24:41K1773Rwhere can i find this systrace?
00:25:15[Saint]Help / Troubleshoot / System Trace
00:25:42[Saint]Please use something like pastebin et al to post the result.
00:29:48K1773Rfor the manual try, i followed the manual
00:30:26K1773Rs/manual try/manual installation/
00:30:39gevaertsK1773R: can you provide the output of fdisk -l /dev/sdb?
00:32:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:32:42K1773Rgevaerts:, in case you wonder its a custom HD due to the old failing, it worked until to some point. after repartioning (including new partition table), it still didnt work (tough no i was able to mount it atleast)
00:33:04gevaertsAh, right, that won't work
00:33:22gevaertsYou'll need to have the apple firmware working before installing
00:33:46[Saint]You've wiped out the OF partition.
00:33:50gevaerts should help with that, if you don't have a windows box with itunes handy
00:33:51K1773Rie installing the apple firmware onto this disk? any good references to follow?
00:34:04[Saint]Restore with iTunes, then rinse and repeat the installation.
00:34:14[Saint]or the above link.
00:34:27[Saint]I advocate using the iTunes method, personally.
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00:34:33[Saint]Its guaranteed to not mess it up.
00:34:47gevaertsitunes (not on a mac, you don't want a mac-formatted ipod!) is easiest, but that's not always an option
00:35:14K1773Rwell, then its the manual restore (as i dont have winblows anywhere around me)
00:35:18K1773Ril report back
00:35:18[Saint]Remeber, you MUST have an original charger to restore this device.
00:35:35[Saint]If you don't have a wall charger for this device on hand, don't restore it.
00:35:58[Saint]USB/firewire charger won't work.
00:36:30K1773Rugh, that sounds creepy. in case the power goes off, its dead i assume unless im able to do it in time?
00:37:03gevaerts[Saint]: are you sure about that? I'm not convinced restoring the OF always tries reflashing
00:37:03[Saint]Well, no. There's no risk.
00:37:15[Saint]The installation just needs a wall charger to complete.
00:37:39[Saint]gevaerts: I'm sure.
00:37:57[Saint]Restoring a 4G always requires charger connection to complete.
00:38:22[Saint]I'm by no means saying its sane.
00:38:27[Saint]Its just what Apple did. :)
00:39:05[Saint]I guess there's the potential for the flash to fail if the device has a very low batter, since the screen being on and the drive spinning is enough to prevent it from charging over USB.
00:39:29gevaertsWell, requiring a charger before flashing early boot code is sane
00:39:49gevaertsIt's just that wanting to flash that code all the time isn't needed, really
00:40:34gevaertsAnd I don't know if that's a generic thing, or just itunes-enforced, in part because I don't actually own a 4G
00:40:45gevaertsBut if you do, then that's all we need :)
00:41:17[Saint]Unfortunately even if you do a manual restore it will still pause the installation and ask you to complete it with a wall charger.
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00:59:36K1773Rdone, il retry the automatic installation now
01:02:24K1773Rthanks, installation worked!
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08:47:12K1773Rcan you change the sorting options (i havent found it if it exists)? im trying to achieve that if i select all tracks its being sorted by "album, tracknumber" not just alphabetically.
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10:30:01mortalis|2Zagor: Could you please upload bootloaders?
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10:30:53Zagorwill do
10:31:28K1773Rcan you change the sorting options (i havent found it if it exists)? im trying to achieve that if i select all tracks its being sorted by "album, tracknumber" not just alphabetically.
10:32:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:33:17gevaertsK1773R: not in the file browser
10:34:56pixelma_I guess you mean in the database? If so then maybe a custom tagnavi file could achieve that (not 100% sure though), have a look here:
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10:35:34K1773Rgevaerts: im talking about the database view
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10:35:45gevaertsIn that case, yes, you can :)
10:35:51K1773Rhow :)
10:36:05gevaertsRead pixelma's reply :)
10:36:39*gevaerts doesn't understand the basic purpose of the database, so he won't be of much help
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10:37:22K1773Roh, i missed that. im sry pixelma
10:37:52coppergevaerts: uh?
10:38:29copperbrowsing a music collection from different angles
10:38:48gevaertscopper: I personally don't have any need for that
10:38:51coppere.g. by genre or year
10:39:37gevaertsThe people who designed tags helpfully only provided one genre for all my music, and I don't feel like doing all that work myself
10:40:02gevaertsAnd year, well, I don't *care* about the recording year which is what's usually in there :)
10:40:56gevaertsIf you look at the original id3v1 genre list (I know, obsolete and not used any more, but still...), there are some genres in there that I suspect don't even have an entire album
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10:41:05gevaertsBut then they have "classical"
10:41:21copperI understand that the database may not be useful to you personally, but surely you understand its purpose and usefulness
10:42:07pixelmaon a different note... WPS syntax, maybe [Saint] knows, but: I was under the impression that in this %Vp "playlist viewer" a negative offset would work and could show me the previous tracks but after a first try it looks like it doesn't.
10:42:19coppersometimes I know I want to listen to some metal, or electronic music, or progressive rock, and then I select an artist from the list
10:42:33gevaertscopper: right, I don't understand any of that ;)
10:42:34copperor, I want to listen to something recent, so I browse by year
10:43:34*pixelma is currently looking for ideas for her phone's WPS, has an idea, finds out that it won't be possible to achieve that, then losing interest again, and starting again after a while
10:43:41coppermy raw list of artists is too long for me to be able to quickly make a choice about what I'd like to listen to
10:44:37coppereven though my collection isn't all that large
10:44:53copper253 artists
10:46:55copperalbum artists* (not counting other artists from compilations or collaborations)
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11:08:41wodzI looked at the extending elfloader to support symbol resolution. One solution is to use the scheme employed in linux kernel modules. Thats pretty straight forward (although I am sure there are some details which will take time to get right).
11:09:21wodzeCos uses very similar approach but doesn't allow for 'symbol export' from modules
11:10:25wodzThe only real problem I see is simulator/hosted target probably as our macros mangle names heavily to avoid name collisions.
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11:14:13wodznm -g rockbox.elf gives ~1700 symbols. Plugin api is ~700 symbols.
11:15:40wodzWith symbol resolution in place we could have equivalent of dlopen, dlsym and load parts of the code on demand.
11:16:47wodzWhat will be needed for this to be of any use is ability to dynamically allocate space which will not move.
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11:31:20wodzgevaerts: Any thoughts about things I outlined?
11:32:05gevaertsNot really. I mean, I'm *really* no expert on this...
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11:33:49wodzgevaerts: I mean from general point of view. Do you see dlopen,dlsym mechanisms as useful options for splitting core into smaller pieces?
11:33:57gevaertsWell, probably
11:34:05wodzor maybe do you see splitting itself as desired
11:34:27gevaertsAs in dynamic swapping?
11:35:37wodzwell, there is long way to something like this I guess. But who knows how pamaury will explore such possibility :-)
11:36:04gevaertsI don't really see that working without an MMU, and most of our devices won't magically grow one of those :)
11:36:46wodzthose targets which would benefit from swapping do have mmu
11:37:28gevaertsAll of them?
11:37:32wodzanyway thats slightly beyond my interest
11:37:36gevaertsAnyway, there's also latency and things
11:37:59gevaertsIf you do dlopen()-like things, you can know you're not interfering with e.g. buffering
11:38:46gevaerts(if you do it properly)
11:39:19gevaertsI'm not convinced that that sort of guarantee is easy to achieve with a swapping/paging approach
11:39:35gevaertsOf course, paging means you don't need to refactor all of apps/ ...
11:40:36wodzI would not talk now about swapping/paging. I would concentrate now if we would like to split parts of code and turn it into on-demand loadable modules.
11:41:00wodzpaging is *maybe* on horizon but not my primary target
11:41:46gevaertsI'd definitely like that splitting off, also for reasons totally unrelated to loadable modules
11:42:09*gevaerts still dreams of a CLI rockbox with a http interface to control it :)
11:42:29gevaertsAnd the streaming network audio output, of course
11:43:54wodzsounds very much like warble + http interface + http streaming audio backend
11:44:54gevaertsDoesn't warble drop most of the playlist stuff?
11:44:59gevaertsI do want that
11:45:18wodzdon't know
11:47:42gevaertsRight. Warble doesn't use *anything* from apps/
11:48:01gevaertsSo it's just codec stuff, which is only a very small part of what I care about
11:51:12markunI also would love a rockbox based CLI player (but mostly care about codecs, replaygain and gapless playback)
11:52:25gevaertsFor gapless playback, you need more than one track, which means you need playlists :)
11:53:20gevaertsWhat I basically want is a thing with one playlist, a way to edit that playlist (the usual insert/add/queue stuff), and party mode
11:56:58wodzOk, I'll experiment with extending elfloader simply because it is fun. I am afraid however it will not gain much attention just as was with elfloader rotting on gerrit.
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13:10:24ikeboyThere's a deal on a 4GB clip zip for $20 at today if anyone's interested
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13:31:59Zagorgevaerts: are you still seeing the git error?
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14:13:13[Saint]pixelma: AFAIK, that should be possible - yes.
14:13:33[Saint]But, realistically, the Playlist Viewer seems to be somewhat of an afterthought.
14:13:46[Saint]You might need to poke JdGordon, that's his baby.
14:15:47pixelmaan offset of -1 just gives me the info of the next song as if it ignores the "-"
14:16:58[Saint]I _think_ this is possible.
14:17:10[Saint]It may well be its just broken itself from neglect.
14:18:37[Saint]K1773R: The simple solution for what you want to do is generate a playlist of all tracks from the root folder containing your audio.
14:19:56[Saint]Not exactly the same - otherwise, its a very trivial change to the tagnavi_custom.config file.
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14:21:44[Saint]gevaerts: FWIW - I use the Database, but, none of my audio has a genre tag, as, ...its just stupid.
14:22:07[Saint]Genre is so incredibly subjective it makes such little sense to include it if it isn't generated manually its not funny.
14:22:39[Saint]These days, pretty much everything gets "Alternative" - very useful.
14:22:48copperthe biggest genre in my collection is "Other" :P
14:23:25[Saint]Picard doesn't even bother adding genre for this very reason I believe. Its largely bullshit. :)
14:25:25*[Saint] forgot to add that how useful K1773R finds his suggestion is largely dependent on how sane the file naming scheme used is.
14:26:05[Saint]Its likely going to be pretty much useless if the filename doesn't include the album name as a prefix.
14:26:29[Saint]But, really, tagnavi_custom is the "right" solution here.
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14:31:28K1773Rnah, not sorting by filename. sorting by tags in "album, title#" order
14:32:10[Saint]I think you're missing what I'm trying to say completely.
14:32:25[Saint]If your filenames were sane, the effect would be exactly the same.
14:32:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:33:15[Saint]also, I thought you wanted album/track # sorting?
14:35:00copper"sane" filenames include the name of the album?
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14:36:14[Saint]I think so - otherwise singular files with no tags present very little information.
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14:37:15[Saint]There's no way of distinguising two or more tracks of the same name by different artists in that case.
14:43:31pixelmawell, that could be part of the directory structure too... IMO file naming scheme is also a subjective thing
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14:44:01[Saint]pixelma: it could, yes. But then if you pick it up and move it, its useless.
14:44:31*[Saint] posits that people with little to no information in filenames are /probably/ Database users.
14:45:20[Saint]And, yes, it is.
14:45:32copperK1773R: do you want the first level of your database view to be artists?
14:45:54copperand when you select an artist, all tracks from that artist are displayed and sorted by album and tracknumber?
14:46:11[Saint]that's what I parsed, at least.
14:46:43pixelmathen don't do that if you don't have them tagged correctly. ;) It's just that I don't like "artist - album - title - whatever" filenames because they are too long to spot the actual difference in a long list, maybe you even have to wait for the line to scroll
14:47:50[Saint]I keep it as a fallback in case for some reason I ever had to re-tag from filename.
14:48:01pixelmaand I just didn't like calling something "sane", implying that if you don't do that it would be "insane"
14:49:11[Saint]Well, I suppose that's another subjective thing. :)
14:51:14[Saint]I'll admit it wasn't the best choice of words though, indeed.
14:51:31copperK1773R: something like this should work (save as /.rockbox/tagnavi_custom.config):
14:51:53copperthe "All tracks" database functionality can't be changed, as far as I know
14:52:17[Saint]not through tagnavi_custom, no.
14:52:19copperinstead you just go in "Album Tracks", select an artist, and that will display all tracks from that artist, sorted by album title and tracknumber
14:53:42copperfeel free to rename "Album Tracks" with whatever you like
14:54:31copperI should add support for discnumber, probably
14:55:02copperblah, that's the gist of it, anyway
14:55:32K1773Rty, il play with it
14:55:40[Saint]yeah, I was just going to mention that - that looks like it should do "01 - trackname, 01 - other trackname, etc.
14:55:56[Saint]Its trivial to figure out, you've given him/her a stepping stone at least.
14:56:45copperno, it does "album A - 01. Title"
14:56:50copper"album A - 02. Title"
14:56:54copper"album B - 01. Title"
14:56:56copper"album B - 02. Title"
14:57:58[Saint]But with multi-disc albums it would list the 1's, and 2's, and 3's etc. together, no?
14:58:07copperah yes
14:58:24[Saint]Instead of 1 - 1, 1 - 2, etc.
14:59:09copper^^ includes discnumber
14:59:42copperthat display 001 if there's no discnumber, 101 for discnumber=1, 201 for discnumber=2
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15:05:10gevaertsZagor: no, that's gone. Bagder did a git gc on the server, which gerrit is supposed to do every now and then, but apparently that wasn't implemented yet in our version
15:05:16gevaertsThe issue was "too many open files"
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15:05:45gevaertsThere were 2000+ pack files, where there shou;ld be 50 or so at most
15:07:17gevaertsThe problem had escalated to the point where none of the build clients still worked properly last night :)
15:07:29gevaertsHence the 82 minute build round
15:08:43[Saint]some git commands are supposed to automatically run git-gc as well.
15:09:07gevaertsWell yes, but none of those are ever run on the server
15:09:36gevaertsThe read-only git-server doesn't run them, and the other side is gerrit, which didn't do it in this version
15:09:58[Saint]I think you could also push gc.autopacklimit up high enough to prevent this from happening again.
15:10:06[Saint]But, that's not really a fix. More avoidance.
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15:11:03gevaertsUh, how would that make any difference?
15:12:22[Saint]Errr, I meant down, not up - sorry. And it would consolidate pack files, you said the issue was there were too many?
15:13:01gevaertsYes, but what exactly would do the gc?
15:13:59[Saint]Isn't there an −−auto flag?
15:15:05gevaertsThe point is that push operations that normally would do the auto gc stuff are *not* run by git-server but by gerrit which for our setup uses a version of jgit that doesn't do gc
15:15:26gevaertsSo you can configure all you want, it will quite literally achieve nothing at all
15:16:02gevaertsAs soon as Zagor upgrades gerrit, this will be fixed. Until then, we'll just have to poke someone to run git gc every two years or so
15:18:32[Saint]Assuming a case where gerrit wasn't going to get upgraded, couldn't git gc be added as a git hook?
15:19:01[Saint]or to an existing hook?
15:19:22gevaertsWell, you could just set it in cron then :)
15:19:34[Saint]Well, yes. :)
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15:35:20K1773Rcopper: works perfect, sweet. seems easy to adjust to the way you like it :)
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20:10:31pamaurylebellium: bad news, I'm in Portugal and I didn't receive the Zen X-Fi Style on time, so I might not be able to hack on it before a month
20:18:26[Saint]Happy Portugal, pamaury :)
20:20:48lebelliumpamaury: no problem, have a good time in Portugal
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20:56:42pamaurywodz (logs): I finally managed to bring the usb analyser with me, so I'll hack on rknano
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22:15:41gevaertsZagor: this newline thing is starting to get a bit annoying
22:15:54gevaertsAttachments on flyspray are affected
22:16:01*gevaerts tries to rebuild this image
22:17:01gevaerts1092 lines removed, and it's a jpg :)
22:18:33gevaertsBah, this is a *long* time ago... I once knew usb...
22:27:12gevaertsJust to make sure, the clip zip doesn't *always* fail to connect to windows, does it?
22:29:57lebelliummine does :D
22:30:01lebelliumwell maybe not always
22:30:22gevaertsThat's the thing I want to know...
22:30:55lebelliumwith cabbiev2 it works sometimes, for sure
22:33:00*gevaerts is looking at FS #12910
22:33:01fs-bluebot Sansa zip clip fails to enumerate over USB under Windows. (bugs, unconfirmed)
22:33:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:34:22lebelliumI can't see the attached pic, it contains errors :(
22:34:27gevaertsI must admit that I had totally forgotten about that 0xEE string descriptor, which does indeed make working with Windows a bit more demanding (on linux you basically never have to deal with STALL in normal circumstances)
22:34:39gevaertsYes, you have to cut out the empty lines at the start...
22:35:23gevaerts and
22:35:46gevaerts*much* more useful than screenshots of yellow triangle icons :)
22:37:52*gevaerts wants the USB analyser those things were made with more than those screenshots though
22:38:28gevaertsStill, it points to a possibly unreliable STALL handling in the driver
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22:42:59gevaertsTheSeven: is there a datasheet for this s3c6400x controller somewhere?
22:43:30 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
22:43:31gevaertsI want to see if it says anything about clearing STALL conditions
22:47:33*gevaerts finds a datasheet
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22:51:12gevaertslebellium: do you happen to have some time for testing some random guesses?
22:51:55lebelliumhum, why not, that can't be less interesting than the TV program :)
22:52:02gevaertsGood :)
22:52:17gevaertsI assume you'd prefer me to do builds?
22:53:18*gevaerts remembers that his web host place is silly and uses file caching, so this will require some thought starting with the second build!
22:53:23lebelliumI should be able to do it myself with my ubuntu vm
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22:54:04gevaertsI'd have to upload patches then, which really isn't going to be that much faster
22:54:10lebelliumindeed :)
22:55:17gevaertsJust check if that seems to be a bit more stable when connecting
22:55:31gevaertsI'm not hoping for a full sudden fix of everything :)
22:55:59*gevaerts only uploads (and builds) the main binary because this doesn't involve codecs or plugins at all
22:56:42lebelliumI just connected my Clip Zip to the computer with cabbivev2 and it worked hehe. Now I try with your file
22:58:04gevaertsSomething in my mind still somehow doesn't want to believe this theme link :)
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23:00:57lebelliumfor now it works everytime but it takes longer to get connected with my theme than with cabbiev2 for sure
23:02:39lebelliumah finally one fail :)
23:03:11gevaertsBoo! :)
23:03:21gevaertsOf course it's hard to say what this all means
23:03:22wodzSmall success :-) I successfully forced iriver e150 to enter adfu mode and then reflashed the player with different version of the OF using windows tool. I have wireshark logs of the session so now I'll have to make some sense of this.
23:04:37lebelliumgevaerts: it's hard to say if it's better than before
23:04:52gevaertsOK, so I'm going to assume "no difference"
23:05:05wodzFrom the first glance a few first steps are inline with s1mp3 description of hard ADFU mode. Memory address makes sense too.
23:06:03lebellium2 fails now :(
23:07:41[Saint]I don't want to believe the theme link either, but many people seem to be able to replicate it.
23:08:00lebelliumI reverted back to cabbiev2 and now it works again.
23:08:30[Saint]Perhaps I would see it if I used Windows more than once ever blue moon. But people have claimed to see it on Linux as
23:08:35*[Saint] shrugs
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23:11:11gevaertsI'm wondering now if themes might introduce slight timing differences somehow
23:11:52lebelliumI hate when it works with my theme 3 times, then stops working and won't work again :(
23:12:08[Saint]gevaerts: Ooooohhh...nice theory.
23:12:57gevaertsThese theme corelations were noticed on more than one device, right?
23:13:33gevaertsCan you remember which ones?
23:13:40gevaertsor some of them, anyway
23:13:47gevaertsI know AMSv2 is in there
23:14:14[Saint]iPod Video was the evry first one to be affected repeatably.
23:14:21[Saint]...well, the first known target, anyway.
23:14:28[Saint]Remember that Terminal theme?
23:14:40[Saint](pretty sure you did the early debugging there)
23:15:38gevaertsWas that a *usb* correlation?
23:16:18[Saint]Perhaps I'm misremembering, but my understanding was that it reliably broke USb mounting.
23:16:33gevaertsI remember debugging with a theme that *might* have been terminal, but that was a long time ago and involved the playlist viewer thing breaking something inside the playback engine
23:17:17[Saint]Ah, right. Hmmm. Ok - scratch that then, since I'm now doubting myself.
23:17:30gevaertsWhat I'm after really is if two different controllers have the *same* themes break them
23:17:49[Saint]Users say the Classic gets hit by this theme/USB thing, but its hard to say there as USB is pretty reliably broken on Windows at the best of times.
23:17:56gevaertsBecause if so, that makes the timing hypothesis a bit doubtful
23:19:02gevaertsclassic/amsv2, sure. Don't they share the driver?
23:20:26[Saint]I'm not sure, pretty sure the N2G uses the same one.
23:21:02gevaertsipod6g.h defines USBOTG_S3C6400X
23:21:05gevaertsSo yes
23:23:26gevaertsDoes the theme engine clean stuff up before connecting, or does it just forget about any previous allocations after disconnect?
23:24:11[Saint]JdGordon: ^
23:26:33gevaerts(because that too can easily discount the timing hypothesis)
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23:37:34TheSevengevaerts: I think the best one is the STM32F4 series datasheet, which uses a slightly different version of the core
23:38:04TheSevensome of the undocumented constant-value bits (such as PHY interface type etc.) are different on ipods
23:38:18TheSevenI have a driver that supports both
23:39:16gevaertsI've been looking at the S3C6400X datasheet for now, and it seems to say that clearing the STALL bit should only be done on non-control endpoints
23:39:28gevaertsIt doesn't seem to actually matter though
23:40:01gevaertsThe thing is that FS #12910 may indicate a possible issue with STALL handling
23:40:02fs-bluebot Sansa zip clip fails to enumerate over USB under Windows. (bugs, unconfirmed)
23:42:11 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Vamoose)
23:47:03TheSevengevaerts: the STALL bit gets cleared automatically when it receives a SETUP packet, that's why it shouldn't be cleared manually on control EPs, and should actually be set after completing a control transaction
23:47:46TheSevensee for details
23:47:52gevaertsTheSeven: well, ep_transfer() seems to set it on OUT
23:48:28*gevaerts promises not to mix up clear and set in this conversation any more
23:50:01TheSevenhm, I guess it is already cleared at that stage
23:50:50gevaertsWell, for control it should
23:51:09TheSevenyes, that's I meant
23:51:15TheSeven"Device is hung after the failure" in an interesting piece of information
23:57:06 Quit Scall (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:57:13[Saint]Oh - I thought of another target with USB issues, not sure what usb controller it has, though.
23:57:24[Saint]Those Samsung app targets.
23:57:31[Saint]USB/theme issues.
23:57:37gevaertsAh, right
23:57:49gevaertsYes, not related to this STALL thing *at all*
23:58:02gevaertsBut yes, the theme thing has been seen on them
23:58:39TheSevengevaerts: that behavior suggests that either the CNAK or EPENA bits aren't properly set after receiving the SETUP after the STALL, or that the firmware is just locking up somewhere before doing so

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