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#rockbox log for 2013-11-09

00:01:22pamauryyeah but it also means less developers
00:02:51DuperMan*might mean. I'm shoving my opinion back where it's useful - meant no arguing of subjective sentiments:)
00:03:23DuperManis building in windows as needlessly painful as one might assume?
00:04:22pamauryI'm not sure you can run rockbox in windows, you need a vm
00:04:29pamauryso yes :/
00:05:22DuperMangood. nightlies of xbmc and cm10.2 started boring my buildbot:D
00:05:54*DuperMan fondles some wiki
00:13:42pamauryto have a build bot you need some script, I don't remember where it is, it's probably written on the wiki
00:15:04DuperManoh nothing official lol. I'm an autodidact douch
00:15:32DuperManI do stuff what looks cool until it acts as pros make it
00:17:31pamauryhaha understood, but for buildbots you still need to use the same protocol as we do (which I have no idea what it is by the way)
00:17:38 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:18:05DuperManhence 'nothing official'. ok ok, call it 'my hobbyist other room computer'
00:18:37DuperMan;) won't mind running a real buildbot though, for the inches to mah epeen
00:27:46DuperManpamaury: tips for setting me env? fetched the sources and scripted a keep shit up to date script
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00:34:33pamauryyou need cross compiler of course
00:34:54pamaurywe have a script in our code base to fetch them and install them (known working versions)
00:35:02AlexPthe build client script keeps it up to date
00:35:11AlexPThere are full instructions on the wiki
00:35:18DuperMangot all that from setting env for android
00:35:31DuperManoh wait, shitload of odd archs lol
00:36:08pamauryyeah, we have mips, coldfire and sh :)
00:36:09[Saint]in the DAP world, those aren't odd architectures.
00:36:34pamaurythey weren't odd, nowadays they are less and less common though
00:36:48pamauryactually arm was odd at the time ^^
00:37:37DuperManodd - rare, anomalous, uncommon.
00:37:47pamaurythe only recent non-arm daps I know are the iriver E100/200/300 series, atj soc, mips
00:38:18DuperManalso: a number that is neither even nor zero
00:38:34DuperManmips is easy, afaik
00:38:57pamaurynow vendors just pick android for arm (sic)
00:39:04pamauryyeah mips is easy apparently
00:39:49DuperManrofl dumb me. wget-ed the buildserver gits
00:40:00DuperManshouldv'e git fetch? pull? xD
00:40:24AlexPyes, you need to use git
00:40:27K1773RDuperMan: git pull
00:40:40AlexPcheck UsingGit (IIRC) in the wiki
00:40:59pamauryyeah UsingGit is your friend
00:41:32DuperManehrm... maybe lazy friendlier? xD
00:41:40DuperMangot hint, will do
00:41:48DuperManAlexP! dewwwwwwwwd
00:41:48AlexPSomeone has bothered to type it all out there
00:41:54AlexPI'm not going to do it again
00:42:14[Saint]Especially seeing as its perfectly fine as is.
00:42:47pamauryif not more !
00:43:02DuperManwasn't earnstly asking to be tutored, sorry
00:44:13pamauryactually you should probably learn a bit of git, it's not really helping you to just give you the commands, git is not really intuitive and simple as svn for example
00:45:55DuperManI do so daily. just still at the 'won't dare upstream my assy code yet'
00:46:42DuperManAlexP: I know you from somewhere. won't bother over it, don't remember where
00:47:01AlexPNot that I'm aware of
00:47:10AlexPbut you never know I suppose
00:47:38DuperManknow of you? yup. either or xda
00:47:45DuperManhar. I shut up now
00:47:58AlexPa) not true b) not appropriate fvor here
00:48:04AlexPStay on topic or get kicked
00:48:33DuperManhence mine shutting up. sorry:/ used to them droid badlands...
00:53:15 Nick SuperBrainAk is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)
00:55:20DuperManwow I'm so n00b. off to read, more. can't make heads or tails without dang 'repo' and prescripted envsetup:(
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01:19:31DuperManholy dang. even building zen utils challenges me:D
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01:24:40DuperManmeh. out for night. thanks all
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15:15:46SzczepancioHello pamaury. How hacking e380 is going?
15:16:36SzczepancioAnd how work on everything else is going :>?
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15:51:32NarodI think pamaury is currently more focused on gettin the Creative ZEN devices to work nicely. :)
15:52:08 Quit mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria
15:52:42SzczepancioNarod: Interesing :)
15:54:02SzczepancioI wish I had a good reverse engineering, hacking and programming skills as rockbox developer's but i don\t.
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15:56:40SzczepancioIs there possiblity to run code at sony nwz that are based on linux?
15:56:54SzczepancioI don't mean running hacked firmware.
15:57:26SzczepancioHi pamaury.
15:57:49SzczepancioCan you post the result of e380 hacking?
15:58:43SzczepancioI mean running a code like an app at the os, like a game. If there is section of the games, so why there is no way to add them<
15:58:54SzczepancioShitty non-polish keyboard. Sorry.
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16:06:10NarodIf you code and compile it for the device or rockbox, it's possible. But rockbox isn't a linux system, mind you.
16:06:49SzczepancioI know that rockbox is another hobby osdev project.
16:08:25SzczepancioBut the device don't have option to load a program from the file or so.
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16:09:22SzczepancioThere no possiblity to load another firmware. @pamaury was working on it, but he said that no big work was done, it is just beginning.
16:09:33NarodThat's why a bootloader is necessary.
16:09:52SzczepancioNerod: or an exploit.
16:11:51SzczepancioMeh, if there was the way for dumping firmware.
16:12:06NarodWhat chipset is the e380 based on?
16:12:32SzczepancioI dont know so, but i dumped firmware week ago and send it to @pamaury.
16:13:10SzczepancioBut I dont want to make anything useful on e380, but at e470.
16:13:38SzczepancioE470 is having linux based fw. E380 is easy to hack, that what pamaury said.
16:14:04SzczepancioBut nothing was done at e470. Scsitool is too not working for it.
16:14:44SzczepancioE380 for example is based on non-based linux os.
16:14:45NarodLet me guess, Sony never released a firmware update for the e470? But they have to provide sources it it's based on linux.
16:15:43SzczepancioNarod: Hmm, sure.
16:15:46n1sSzczepancio: noone's born with skills in programming and reverse engineering :)
16:17:15Szczepancion1s: True, i'm sure if I was coding, and doing re everyday I can be at good level as others developers.
16:17:37pamauryThe linux based dap from sony are not really easy to hack because the firmware upgrade mechanism needs a key which you cannot find. What I realised by doing some reverse engineer is that using custom scsi commands you can retrieve the key if you know the "NVP map": that's why I aked Szczepancio to run scsitool: get a map and the key. I wrote some tools to create a valid firmware upgrade file (assuming you know the key) but if you doing it at
16:17:37pamauryrandom, you'll brick your device, 100% probability
16:18:09pamauryFor the E380, I didn't have much time to work it during the week obviously, I'll do some this week-end.
16:18:15Szczepanciopamaury: Interesing.
16:19:25Szczepanciopamaury: So, you got key or not?
16:19:29pamauryalso note that while Sony provides the code of the kernel, it's mostly useless, all the interesting models are binary
16:20:14pamaurySzczepancio: it must be somewhere in the huge dump from scsitool you made, I think I spotted one entry which could be a key, no way to be sure without trying
16:21:08SzczepancioAh, I got it. So its hard to hack because trying another key will brick an device. Do you still have this dump?
16:21:15Szczepanciopamaury: ?
16:21:44pamauryNo, if you get the wrong key it won't upgrade, but if you send an empty upgrade with a valid key, you will brick it
16:22:16pamauryso you need to send *at least* an upgrade with a valid *and* a valid script, which you have no way of being 100% sure it will work try it
16:22:20fs-bluebotGerrit review #100 at : IAP rework patch 8: Revert to static buffers by (changes/00/100/1)
16:23:10pamaurythis "minimal" upgrade script must do one thing: switch off the upgrade flag
16:25:34Szczepanciopamaury: Wat is doing upgrade flag?
16:25:44pamaurytells the device to upgrade
16:26:00pamauryif you don't clear it, you will be stuck in an infinite upgrade loop
16:27:22Szczepanciopamaury: So, we don't know way to clear update flag and write useful fw right?
16:27:32Szczepancio(valid fw)
16:27:51pamauryI know how to clear it on the E440, but I can't ensure you it will work on the E470
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16:28:22pamauryon the E440 I was able to run trivial programs this way: run a script which clear the flag and does something (like display an image)
16:29:27Szczepanciopamaury: Interesing. How you found the way to clear an flag?
16:29:59pamauryI tear down the device, extract the internal storage, hook it up with custom electronics and dump it to my hard drive
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16:36:48pamauryI'll be back later
16:39:48SzczepancioMeh, it's sounds like black magic for me.
16:40:11SzczepancioI understood it but i never did it.
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16:45:27lorenzo92pamaury: internal mean the nand or just an eeprom or so?
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19:28:31pamaurylorenzo92 (logs): internal storage on those is eMMC and it's on its pcb that you can detach from the main board
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19:51:07Dynionwell... it felt easier to buy another classic :) 6th gen this time...
19:53:37Dynionany tips on how to get rockbox on it? doesnt seem like im not going to get an easy installer this time...
19:59:27Dynioni was hoping that one was outdated
19:59:38Dynionok:) c ya in a while
19:59:53Dynionthanks for the confirmation
20:10:12Dynionwoop woop... i knew it wasnt hard... but didnt think it was this easy...:P
20:10:34Dynionand a new rockbox player arises ^_^
20:11:11NarodThe iPod Classic devices are as big as the iPod Video, right?
20:12:43K1773RNarod: you meen the screen for themes? if so yes
20:12:52K1773RNarod: ie, 320x240
20:13:03NarodNo, I mean the overall device measurements.
20:13:43NarodIf they're just as big, then those aren't for me. I already hate the thought of having a second device in my pocket that is as big as my smartphone.
20:14:31copperit's hardly as big as a smartphone
20:14:48Dynioni had that too at first, but then i decided it sounds easily good enough to justify the size
20:14:58Dynionand its a bit smaller
20:15:07Dynionthinner that is
20:15:18Dynion(as ipod video, and a lot smaller than smartphone)
20:16:16NarodIf it's as big as the iPod Video, then it's about as big as my S2.
20:16:49Dynionmy smartphone is about s2 size, bit smaller even
20:17:10Dynionits 70% of length, about the same width and a littlebit thicker
20:17:41Dynionso its quite a bit smaller in length... which makes it far more comfortable to walk with
20:18:25NarodI just hate having two devices of that size in my pocket. I mean, I own a Galaxy S Wifi which is essentially a competitor of the iPod Touch. It sounds great, offers awesome battery life...but the size. Jeez.
20:19:07NarodSo I just end up using my e360 or my Clip Zip.
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20:21:20Dynionit isnt really a flaw to have a clip zip with rockbox... its a great player...
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20:22:07gevaertsTo actually answer the original question, the classic is indeed exactly the same size as the video, although of course a modern thin classic is thinner than a thick video :)
20:22:27gevaertsWell, with "exactly" meaning "at least within half a mm"
20:23:53NarodMost Sansa players are great...until the headphone jack breaks.
20:24:01NarodAnd thanks for answering that question. ;)
20:25:19NarodI would probably use my Nano 2G all the time if it wasn't for that USB bug. I really wonder what causes that.
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20:41:18prymerootNarod: Have you any other problems with Sansa devices? My Clip+ have a broken flash about two weeks…
20:43:29pamauryThe sansa devices have poor quality flash it seems, they break one after the other after some time
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20:44:13NarodI never experienced a flash failure with a sansa device, to be honest.
20:44:25prymerootStupid question: there's any alternatives? I mean cheap players supported by Rockbox.
20:44:41NarodThat said, I have a certain set of music on my devices that rarely changes. I only upgrade Rockbox to the latest dev build every few days.
20:45:09NarodNot really, most devices aren't manufactured anymore...and if a device is supported by RB, its price usually skyrockets real quick.
20:45:35NarodYou can get used/refurbished iPod nano 1g/2gs for about 50 bucks, though.
20:45:55pamauryprymeroot: that's a very vague question, there are yes but they are usually pretty bad, or you need to buy them second hand
20:46:15pamauryI don't think rockbox has any impact on the prices of the players...
20:47:03NarodIn Germany it seems to be that way. I can look up any RB supported device and I rarely find one that's sold below 100€
20:47:59prymerootpamaury: I know, but usually default fw is not very well or it is not supported.
20:49:01NarodI have yet to encounter a device that offers proper functionality and is a) not a Sony or Apple device and b) not super expensive. Hell, even well equipped Android non-GSM devices are super expensive.
20:49:12pamauryfor example sony nwz-e360 and nwz-e370 are supported (though early) stage and you can find cheap ones second hand
20:49:37pamauryin the future maybe some cheap archos devices will be
20:50:27pamauryyou can also find cheap Creative ZEN, X-Fi and Mozaic and we are about to support them
20:50:42prymerootYeah, I saw. Sounds interesting.
20:52:15Narod90$ for a Zen Mozaic on eBay US. Jeez.
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20:52:28prymerootAfter a next broken Sansa device, I listening to music on Nokia 101. Yes, really.
20:53:50pamauryNarod: that's very high, in France I found some for 30/40€
20:54:27NarodHuh. That seems to be the price range for a 2GB one in the US or UK.
20:54:47NarodOh well, I still got a bunch of working players that are compatible with RB, so I'm good for now.
20:56:29prymerootHm, in Poland I can buy Mozaic for about 20€ – 8G version. Second hand, of course.
20:57:57NarodI feel like I'm getting screwed over by eBay.
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21:05:22prymerootI really like Clip for its small size and OLED screen. It's a pity that it has a shitty jack.
21:05:56prymerootWriting Clip, I mean Clip+.
21:06:18 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:06:31NarodThe Clip Zip would be perfect if it wasn't for the, yes, shitty jack.
21:06:37NarodIt was my favourite sansa player so far.
21:08:12prymerootNarod: So what are you using now? Nano 2G, right?
21:08:43 Quit mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria
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21:10:19NarodNah, I'm using my sony e360. The nano 2g is great and all, but Rockbox is pretty much broken on it. Plug in USB and the device freezes.
21:10:30NarodWell, saying it's broken is wrong.
21:10:34NarodUSB simply doesn't work.
21:11:01prymerootI see.
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21:38:23andypotterCan a couple of developers with PP based iPods have a look and a try with . Change Ie8fc0983: Updated IAP commands based on the work of Lalufu. I've been using this code for a while and I'd like to get it included before I make any more changes to it. Thanks
21:49:00gevaertsandypotter: I'll have a look soon. Unless someone comes up with a serious reason not to push (such as an unexpected upcoming release, we can hope!), I suspect we can just go for it
21:51:17andypotterIf it does get committed, can Lalufu be credited as the author? It's mostly all his work with only a few additons by me.
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21:54:25gevaertsActually, let me try to push something to gerrit that's ready for commit
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21:54:46saratogaI tested out the magnitude and phase response of the Rockbox EQ if anyone is curious:
21:54:52saratogathats with just the one band active
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21:55:40NarodI have no idea what that means, but graphs are good. :)
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22:04:00gevaertsandypotter: I've pushed a new version to gerrit with the author bits, and the commit message edited to make sense with the authors swapped.
22:04:11gevaertsI've also reverted some whitespace change to apps/SOURCES :)
22:04:35bertriksaratoga: looks good, right?
22:05:20gevaertsbertrik: can you have a quick look at this latest iap patch? I'd like to push this...
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22:07:17bertrikgevaerts: I don't have a working ipod peripheral, but I like the patch
22:07:41bertrikdon't need a seperate .h file for each lingo though I think
22:08:10gevaertsI like that we're now back at the point where there are *no* changes to anything strictly outside iap
22:10:33lonoxmonti have a vw radio with an ipod hookup, and am willing to test shit, if that helps any
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22:12:36gevaertslonoxmont: that would probably help, yes. Have you used the current support?
22:13:02lonoxmontthe what now?
22:13:31gevaertsI mean, there has been support for ipod accessories for a long time now
22:13:43gevaertsWhat this patch is supposed to do is improve it a lot
22:14:06gevaertsSo testing would be more useful if compares both
22:14:23lonoxmonti tried the latest stable and a custom compiled one with the vid/pid changed, neither worked
22:14:38lonoxmontwell, charging worked but that was it
22:14:59gevaertsOK, so at least for you it can't get worse :)
22:15:28lonoxmonti suspect its going to be a pain in the ass to make my accessory work as it writes text to the screen under apple firmware, as well as some other things im not quite sure about
22:17:13lonoxmontgevaerts: so what do i need to do to test out your patch and such?
22:17:34gevaertsWell, it's not *my* patch as such :)
22:17:42gevaertsandypotter: can you provide some hints on what to test?
22:18:33gevaertsbertrik, andypotter: I'm now working on merging the lingo headers
22:19:32bertrikgevaerts: ok great, I'll apply it locally and check with cppcheck
22:19:41gevaertsHmm, one warning
22:19:52gevaertsThe usual size_t signedness stuff :)
22:21:40gevaertsbah, pushed to gerrit too soon :( That one won't even build!
22:21:56bertrikbah, chromium and/or gerrit are being difficult
22:22:38gevaertsbertrik: patchset 8 should be OK
22:22:51bertrikok, thanks
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23:19:02andypottergevarts: testing with anything that's using IAP over serial. Bluetooth Transmitter with headphones should also work. Nothing should be worse but a lot of things should be better, especially car head units that require authentication. My Alpine refuses to work with the latest release of Rockbox.
23:20:24andypottergevaerts: sorry, also, I can't spell.
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23:52:46saratogabertrik: yeah, looks typical and the gains are indeed correct

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