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#rockbox log for 2013-11-12

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01:55:25igetitsansa clipzip was working, now fails to boot or be recognized by win7, boot 4.0 just hangs then gives message *PANIC* mount: 0. Is the device corrupted and can it be recovered? Is this the place to ask said question?
02:04:29igetitthx, I'm out. I will check log for response tomorrow
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12:24:34wodzhmm, booting sequence of atj213x is much more complicated then I thought. Rom copies various blobs to iram and execution is from iram. The weird thing is that rom reuses iram addresses when loading another blobs.
12:26:01pamaurywodz: that looks like what imx233 does: you can load init stub before you finally load the final binary ?
12:27:33wodzpamaury: I am talking about boot rom now. I think that first blob tries to load second stage bootloader from flash and second blob is rom adfu handler but I need to check this hypothesis
12:28:22pamauryyeah but I mean, it could copy one init stub from rom to iram and run it, then copy another one and run it again. I don't know why you would do that but why not ^^
12:30:36wodzyeah, it is just a bit weird considering that the biggest blob is ~50kB while most are ~4-6kB and this SoC has 96kB of iram.
12:30:56wodzand why copy to iram at all
12:32:36pamauryyeah that's a question. Speed maybe ?
12:33:07pamauryOh just because it's simpler: you compile and link the blob like it was running at 0, alone in his own world ^^
12:33:20wodzthis scheme also means much harder analysis as I can't just load all blobs into address space.
12:34:03wodznot 0 :-) Mips addresses are weird. The execution starts at 0xbfc00000 :-)
12:34:16pamauryyeah, you'll have to analyse them one by one. Actually I think it's better for you no ?
12:34:25pamauryah didn't know this weirdness :)
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13:54:38pamaurygevaerts: interestingly, on my linux box (linux 3.11), the test unit ready command is not sent all the time
13:56:08pamauryif I start with microsd inserted, it sends a first test unit ready and read, then nothing. If I disconnect the sd card, nothing happen until the host tries to read it at which point is sends another test unit ready and realise the device is not present anymore
13:56:34pamaurybut if I plug it again, then the kernel will never test it again for ready, so I can use it anymore
14:02:29gevaertsAh, hmmm
14:02:46gevaertsSo we probably have to cache a removal so we send at least one "not ready"
14:04:09pamauryThe thing is that you can report eject unless the host ask you
14:04:14pamaury*cannot report
14:05:19pamauryi checked with the OF: it doesn't detect the disonnect either but when you try to read from removed media, it just error but does not report a capacity change
14:05:33pamauryit works but it is incorrect too
14:07:06pamauryso maybe the only *right* way to do it is to use CBI and not bulk-only
14:08:19gevaertsI doubt it. AFAIK nobody uses that any more
14:09:17pamauryso how do people handle this ?
14:09:51pamauryI need to read the spe
14:26:51pamauryit seems to linux specific, maybe I should ask the linux guys
14:29:41pamaurygevaerts: which kernel are you running ?
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14:35:54gevaerts3.11 right now. Why?
14:36:18pamauryI would like someone to try with an older kernel, I'm pretty sure the kernel used to send test unit ready all the time
14:38:01gevaertsAh, yes.
14:38:11gevaertsI seem to have 3.4 installed, but I can't really reboot now
14:38:28*gevaerts 's work stuff takes *a lot* of time to restart...
14:39:01gevaertsBut yes, I also seem to vaguely remember that
14:39:41pamaurywodz: do you have a not-so-recent linux kernel with wireshark at hand ?
14:40:22gevaertsIn fact, I'm also not sure if I have a device here I can test with
14:44:14wodzpamaury: I have kernel 3.2 here, I can install wireshark but what device should I test?
14:44:33 Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
14:45:19pamaurywodz: any device with working usb and a micro sd slot
14:46:08wodzpamaury: I can't help then
14:47:59pamauryok thanks anyway
14:48:49wodzcan't you try some vm?
14:50:37pamauryusb is broken with my kernel + latest virtualbox :(
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14:50:52pamaurydon't know which fault it is, downgrading doesn't seem to help so maybe kernel
14:51:42wodzthats why I don't like to upgrade sw which works :-)
14:53:04pamauryapparently virtualbox went through some turbulence when switching to 4.3, it was quite unusable which is bad for such a major version change
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15:11:24pamaurygevaerts: just tried on a old 2.6.xx kernel and it send test unit ready all the time
15:11:46Zagorgood. now just bisect the kernel :)
15:11:51gevaertsOK, so someone changed something in there, which means there's someone who knows why :)
15:14:33pamaurybut it doesn't work either: if I eject and replug microsd sd, it reports not medium present in the kernel which is weird
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15:58:09omutozcan u help me please with rockbox on sansa clip zip?
15:58:59gevaertsOnly if you don't start by claiming we destroyed your device.
15:59:24omutozi'm sorry for that
16:00:01gevaertsHave you tried resetting the device by holding the power button for at least 30 seconds?
16:00:45omutozyes, of course, problem is still actual
16:01:41gevaertsYou'll have to provide more details about what exactly the device is doing then
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16:04:20omutozevery time connecting usb after 15 sec or 1 minute there is a massage on a white screen:
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16:05:04omutozundefined instruction
16:05:04omutozpc: 300BFC98 sp: 3
16:05:05omutozundefined instruction pc: 300BFC98 sp: 3 bt end
16:05:34gevaertsOK. The best workaround for now will be to use the original firmware for USB
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16:07:11omutozand now appears sansa clipz volume and removable card volume in "my computer" but they are empty
16:08:29omutozand sansa updater installer or RockboxUtility doesn't recognize device
16:14:03omutozgevaerts, "to use the original firmware for USB" - how can i do this?
16:18:53omutozupdating database... original firmware is really horrible after using rockbox..
16:19:23omutozshould I try with rockbox 3.12?
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16:22:31omutozis this bug - undefined instruction 300BFC98 - depends on my device or pc?
16:31:00gevaertsIt's a rockbox issue, most likely
16:32:50omutozbut not every device has this problem... will try 3.12
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16:36:06omutozI'm very appreciate for help and sorry for the inconvenience. Good luck!
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17:39:45fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 6bff0f7, 243 builds, 36 clients.
17:47:27fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 462 seconds.
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20:13:04Szczepanciopamaury: how hacking e380 is going? sorry if i am spamming you this so much.
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20:14:44SzczepancioIs done any progress on it?
20:15:14pamaurySzczepancio: ah, I was expecting you.
20:15:40pamauryactually it appears that from the hardware point of the view, the E380 is exactly the same device as the E370
20:15:49Szczepanciopamaury: Do you have e370?
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20:16:32pamauryyes, actually we have a port in progress on this one, so if you are willing to try, I can send you a binary and you can try to upgrade your E380 with it. You will always be able to dualboot and you can try rockbox
20:17:18SzczepancioI am on android tablet actually so i cant make any work, but I will try it.
20:17:40SzczepancioI am thinking why anybody don't made port of linux for it, it's a great device.
20:17:54Szczepancio(galaxy tab 2)
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20:18:33Szczepanciopamaury: Why do you don't post progress of sony device hacking on rockbox forums?
20:20:01pamaurybecause I have many things to do ^^
20:20:12pamauryok let me create a few topics on the forum
20:20:32Szczepanciopamaury: Do you only doing a IT things all the time :)?
20:21:04pamauryI do a PhD thesis in theoretical computer science, so Rockbox is only a hobby
20:21:32SzczepancioI have other hobby at the hand - speedsolving. It is for many ppl a waste of time, but I really like it.
20:22:14SzczepancioBut dont make here offtopic.
20:23:02Szczepanciopamaury: you wanna write topic's about wut devices?
20:29:10pamaurySzczepancio: I will create a forum and wiki topic about the E380, I'll send you a link soon
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20:37:04Szczepanciopamaury: Can you make binary with default os set to SONYOS? And the second os rockbox, booted with key combination.
20:37:34SzczepancioBecause the sony e380 is not my device, so i don't wanna make any changes, you know..
20:37:59Szczepancioits my dad, so i can make changes into device, but not so far, you understood.
20:38:19pamaurythat you be possible yes
20:38:22pamaury*should be
20:38:44Szczepanciopamaury: The e380 rockbox is at what state?
20:38:48SzczepancioVery unstable, yup?
20:40:22pamaurythe E370 is working very well except for the keymap which is not very intuitive, and the radio is not working, mostly
20:40:51pamaurybut I cannot guarantee that the E380 is a rebranded E370 without actually trying on device of course
20:41:12Szczepancioso i will be something like betatester, nice
20:41:32SzczepancioDo you know, e440 is the same as e 470?
20:42:23pamauryno idea on this one, but yeah that's quite possible
20:42:23SzczepancioE470 is more important for me, because its my device. And its a way better than e380.
20:45:04pamaurySzczepancio: looking at it now, even if I change it so that it boots to Sony OS by default, it will change the way to boot: one will have to press play for one second, whereas previously any key would have boot. So maybe I suggest an alternative way if you don't mind: install normal bootloader, try it and restore original firmware
20:45:41Szczepanciopamaury: It's having the same display, I will look deeper at e380.
20:45:50Szczepancioat e470.
20:47:00Szczepanciopamaury: Ok, so upload an binary and post it at the topic, can you?
20:49:40 Quit y4n (Quit: only amiga makes it possible)
20:50:45SzczepancioOr I see, there no time to make topic, so just send me message if its ready, and i will switch from tablet to laptop, and you will send me link.
20:56:15pamauryneed to go, be back later
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21:07:33GodEaterwho is our sansa clip dev?
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21:10:41GodEater <−− just found this
21:11:56gevaerts"I know! I'll ask my questions in a place where none of the people who can answer will see them!"
21:13:15GodEaterwell I've seen it, and people *I* know can answer it ;)
21:13:56gevaertsBeware of the leopard
21:31:06andypotterlonoxmont: Does your fancy vw connect to the ipod using the standard iPod USB cable? If it does, its using IAP over USB which is not supported.
21:31:08andypotterIf it uses a custom cable it might be IAP over Serial and I might be able to help you on this.
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22:42:17bluebrotherpamaury: pong
22:43:45pamaurybluebrother: someone reported a compile issue with mkzenboot: it uses the libtools.make but there is some link order issue
22:44:28pamaurythe problem is that I use "LDOPTS += -lz", but on some compilers the "-lz" needs to be last on the command line and currently it is first
22:45:41bluebrotherwhat are "some compilers"?
22:46:33pamaurygcc on recent ubuntu (2012)
22:47:15pamaurythat's what the guy told me
22:48:37bluebrotherhmm. Moving LDOPTS to the end should be fine, right?
22:48:52pamauryI think so
22:49:28pamaurybut I don't know if you have encountered any compile which would have reverse requirements and don't like switches near the end of the command line ^^
22:49:42bluebrotherok, mkzenboot is the only one that extends LDOPTS
22:49:49bluebrotherwell, then let's fix it :)
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22:51:22bluebrotherI can do that now if you want to
22:51:43pamauryyeah that would be nice :)
22:55:17fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 0372a52, 243 builds, 39 clients.
22:55:30 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAk (~andy@
22:55:34bluebrotherok. Reminded me to push two other changes while at it :)
22:56:58pamauryI am thinking about writing that scsi library once and for all so we can use it in our tool and rockbox utility
22:57:14pamauryI know how to implement it on linux and windows, what about Mac OS ?
22:58:05bluebrotherthat's an ugly thing.
22:58:56pamauryyeah I'm looking at the ipodpatcher, that seems...interesting
22:59:05bluebrotheryes. It works that way :)
22:59:21 Quit K1773R (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:00:13pamaurya comment says it ignores the device and just pick the first ipod, how does that work and how can I send scsi to just any device ?
23:00:33bluebrotherI can try it on OS X but I'm unlikely to find much time to look into it in detail soon
23:01:02bluebrotherwell, we need to select the ipod first.
23:01:36bluebrotherand the code is looking for iPodUserClientDevice here. That means if there are two ipods connected we'll just get the first, whatever that means.
23:02:15bluebrotherto match any device that selection needs to get changed. At least if I remember that stuff correctly, got me quite some headache back then :)
23:02:39pamauryok, but you have OSX to try it ?
23:03:02 Part Szczepancio ("AndroIRC")
23:03:15bluebrotherI've got a machine running 10.6 and 10.7 (though I'm planning to replace the 10.7 with 10.9 eventually)
23:03:41pamauryok great, at least you can test it, I don't have any Apple computer, neither I plan to have one ^^
23:04:10bluebrotherI bought one some years ago to fix Rockbox Utility on OS X. And that box is still running :)
23:04:54bluebrother(and I need it when creating Rockbox Utility releases. We should do one in the forseeable future)
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23:07:34pamauryyou really bought an Mac Book just for rockbox ? :-o
23:08:00bluebrotheryes and no: it's a Mac Mini
23:08:16pamaurysounds more reasonable
23:08:22bluebrotherand that's a machine I was considering anyway back then.
23:09:00bluebrotherthey raised the prices when they released the new version of the Mini after I bought that machine
23:09:30bluebrotherso the price was even quite acceptable that time. Upgraded it a bit since though :)
23:09:32pamauryThere is an important issue as well: on some devices like Sony NWZ-E360/E370 there is no firmware upgrade available (for now, and maybe never) so one has to extract it from the device. I was wondering what is the right way to implement this in RbUtil
23:09:47pamauryI see two ways:
23:10:25pamaury1) in bootloader install, extract the firmware and use
23:10:25pamauryBut this is problematic because if Rockbox is already installed you are screwed, and you cannot restore
23:10:31bluebrotherdoes it enumerate as UMS device?
23:10:49pamaury2) Have an extra menu/option/action/whatever called "extract firmware" which save the firmware as a file
23:11:04bluebrotherand there is no way to detect if we already inserted our bootloader?
23:12:08pamaurywell, it is possible but complicated and even then you *want* the user to save the original firmware somewhere on his disk to restore later of upgrade the bootloader, right ?
23:12:20bluebrotherlike, extract the firmware and then check some Rockbox string in the extracted file?
23:12:47bluebrotherok, so we can't revert inserting our bootloader I guess?
23:12:48pamauryyeah, except you also have to decrypt it entirely
23:13:14pamaurywe can if we have dualboot
23:13:16bluebrother2) sounds like something users will mess up to me
23:13:19pamauryjust boot into OF
23:13:45pamaurybut then you need the original copy of the firmware
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23:14:09pamauryhow would they mess up ?
23:14:22bluebrotherbecause they need to know to use that extra option
23:14:32bluebrotherand only to use that on this specific player
23:15:01bluebrotherif we have some "extract firmware" button I'm pretty sure some of the Sandisk users not finding the firmware file on the Sandisk website will try it
23:15:07bluebrotherand of course expect it to work
23:15:11pamaurythe installer can show some extract text, like "please select the bootloader file, if you didn't do it already, please extract it using <blabla>"
23:15:37bluebrotherI'd prefer to avoid such stuff
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23:15:48bluebrotherseeing how problematic autodetection is ...
23:16:16pamaurywell, it would work on the fuze+ actually...
23:16:58bluebrotherfair enough, but I still think something like that would cause confusion
23:17:27pamauryok, so you think it's better to extract it when installing but they how to handle restore or upgrade of the bootloader ?
23:17:29bluebrotheror to say, more confusion than we'd like to see
23:17:42bluebrotheryou can save the original firmware file during bootloader installation
23:17:51bluebrotherwe already to that for devices like the m:robe 100
23:18:00pamaurywhat about upgrade ?
23:18:13pamauryyou extract it and if you realise it's no the OF you ask for the file ?
23:18:26pamaurysay you want to install a new bootloader version
23:18:44pamauryor you force restore + fresh install ?
23:19:13bluebrotherwe could additionally copy the file to the player. Which obviously breaks if the user reformats the player
23:19:28bluebrotherbut if the user looses the OF file we'll always have this kind of problem
23:20:04pamauryto be honest, in theory you can recover the OF from a modified bootloader
23:20:09bluebrotheroptimally we would be able to extract the patched firmware and un-patch it :)
23:20:25pamauryyeah that's doable
23:20:34pamauryjust way more difficult
23:20:45bluebrotherfrom my understanding that's pretty much what we do on Ipods
23:21:07bluebrother(though as far as I understand on the Ipod this is mostly just shuffling some data around and changing a few bytes)
23:21:36bluebrothereither way, for integrating with Rockbox Utility I think some patcher thing that does the work would be good
23:21:41pamaurywell, actually unpatching and patching is easy, what is harder is to make sure this is bulletproof
23:22:04bluebrotherthen we can integrate it the same way we do it for ipodpatcher and friends
23:22:29pamaurysince decryption/encryption of the format is complicated, you can screw up in many way. I guess the safe way would be to extract, unpatch, repack, check md5sum, unpack, patch, repack
23:22:51pamauryhow is this integrated with ipodpatcher ?
23:23:04bluebrotheripodpatcher just does the work
23:23:09bluebrotherRockbox Utility just calls it
23:23:53pamauryok, seems fine
23:24:17pamauryI wasn't planning to write an unpatcher but hey, sounds fun
23:24:39bluebrotherBootloaderInstallIpod::installStage2() mostly just calls add_bootloader() from ipodpatcher.
23:25:04bluebrotherand sansapatcher works similarly
23:25:31bluebrotherkinda sounds interesting indeed. The main problem for me is that I'm quite busy with other things these days :)
23:25:31pamauryok, I should have a look, jlbiasini wrote most of the imxpatcher, I just wrote all firmware modification part
23:26:42pamauryby the way, probably a stupid question: how can I have the imx installer display different messages for different targets ?
23:27:02pamauryLike links to SansaFuzePlus for the fuze+ and CreativeZenXFi3 for the zen xfi3 ?
23:32:41bluebrotheryou can't
23:33:21bluebrotherthe idea behind the bootloader installation is that the implementations don't know about the target −− they just know "their" way to install the bootloader
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23:33:55bluebrotherbefore that we had an ugly mixture of bootloader installation "methods" and target types
23:34:12pamauryso it is wrong to put some text saying where to look for the OF ?
23:34:13bluebrotherwhich becomes a nightmare to maintain pretty soon
23:34:31bluebrotherwell, yes. We have a manual for that :)
23:35:00pamauryok, so in sansapatcher, why is there a link to the SansaE200 wiki page ?
23:35:30bluebrotherthere are some problems here: if we point the user to $somewebsite, especially if it's a website we don't control, we need to update our software every time that link changes.
23:35:53bluebrotherwhat I find acceptable is to link to our own (i.e.
23:36:15pamauryI mean it points to a wiki page which says "look in the manual" ;)
23:36:33pamaurywhy not just say look into the manual ?
23:36:38bluebrotherwell, it might be a good idea to update that wiki page then :)
23:36:45bluebrotheryes, in the past we did just this
23:37:14bluebrotherthen someone thought it a good idea to link to the Sandisk Forums in on case (i.e. mkamsboot bootloader installation)
23:37:17 Quit Zagor (Quit: Clint excited)
23:37:33bluebrotherI never liked that but didn't object either, since mkamsboot only handles Sandisk players
23:38:10bluebrotherbut this has the drawback that we can only link to the main forum. Resulting in users getting confused by the Sandisk forum.
23:38:44bluebrothera better solution (imo) would be to have one wiki page at that collect all those links and we just link to that page
23:38:52bluebrothermakes it much easier to update things
23:39:12pamauryyeah I agree
23:39:27pamaurylet's do it then !
23:40:04pamauryI'll have a look at this tomorrow, try to collect the different links
23:40:44bluebrotherwe have BootloaderInstallHelper::postinstallHints() which knows about the model. We could add something like preinstallHints().
23:41:44bluebrotherthat could even link to a wiki page at, maybe even something like<targetname>
23:42:10bluebrotherbut I'd really like to keep non-rockbox links out of the code as much as possible
23:42:53bluebrotherwe haven't had a release of Rockbox Utility in a year now, and I really don't want to update every 2 month or so just because some vendor decides to restructure their website
23:43:15bluebrotherso linking to our own wiki sounds like the only sane solution to me
23:43:30bluebrotherif we want to link to somewhere in addition to the manual :)
23:44:27pamauryyeah sounds fine, I agree we should avoid hardcoded links to external website
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23:46:39JdGordonscorche|sh: did you update flyspray?
23:46:56scorche|shJdGordon: that is controlled by the swedes
23:47:10JdGordondid the swedes update flyspray?
23:47:16JdGordonemail template looks like it changed
23:48:16bluebrotherthe tracker also looks different −− the Rockbox logo is missing
23:49:23gevaertsIt was reinstalled after Zagor found some weird stuff
23:51:59 Join wodz [0] (
23:54:16wodzScrew you mips technologies inc.! You can't provide correct cp0 register list for you 4kc core in official manual!

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