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#rockbox log for 2013-12-04

00:04:59 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving)
00:05:18 Quit Narod ()
00:06:22 Quit kugel_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:06:23 Join krabador [0] (~krabador_@unaffiliated/krabador)
00:10:07pamauryhaha, I found the code of the production test mode :)
00:11:18 Quit ender` (Quit: I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. -- Jerome K. Jerome)
00:13:16pamaurymy device definitely has a fm tuner, it's just a software limitation
00:17:09lebelliumIt's probably due to the European tax on FM tuners
00:17:28lebelliumsome manufacturers disable it in Europe to sell the device cheaper or increase their margin
00:22:01 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
00:35:04 Join chrisjj [0] (561bb732@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
00:35:07chrisjjDevs, May one assume all references to SVN for current procedures are obsolete? e.g. "Please include: The SVN revision/release you are using and if possible the particular SVN revision in which you think the bug was introduced."
00:36:04pamaurychrisjj: yeah, now we use git commit id (usually short ids)
00:36:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:37:42chrisjjSo, is "git commit ID" the official terms for e.g. the pre-dash part of the Rockbox System, Info, Version: ?
00:38:48pamauryno, the git commit id only replaces the SVN revision
00:39:59pamauryah ok, misunderstood the "pre-dash"
00:40:00chrisjjOK, so what term would you use for the pre-dash part of the Rockbox System, Info, Version: e.g.9ff1819 ?
00:40:14pamauryyeah it's a abbreviate/short commit id
00:40:20chrisjjOK! So answer is Yes?
00:40:28chrisjjOK, got it.
00:40:38pamauryyes, I thought you were suggesting the commit replaced everything sorry
00:40:43chrisjjI'm going to change "Please include: The SVN revision/release you are using and if possible the particular SVN revision in which you think the bug was introduced." to...
00:41:23chrisjj"Please include: The version number of the Rockbox version you are using and if possible the version number of the Rockbox version in which you think the bug was introduced."
00:43:24pamauryI find it a bit obscure
00:43:47chrisjjOK, what's better?
00:45:05pamauryI would rather replace the whole sentence by: "Please include the Rockbox release and if possible the version displayed in the system information (git commit ID)"
00:45:18pamaury*release version number
00:46:47chrisjjOK, but where does a user find the Rockbox release version number on the device?
00:48:30pamauryI'm not sure, I never run an official release. I think the system info displays the release if it's a release build and the git commit id otherwise
00:48:43pamaurySo yeah, let's it be only "the version displayed in the system info"
00:48:54pamaurythat's always the most precise information anyway
00:50:55 Quit nosa-j (Read error: Operation timed out)
00:53:46chrisjjOK, so "Please include the Rockbox version indentifier, found at System>Info, e.g. 9ff1819-131202"
00:53:58chrisjjLooks OK?
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00:58:53pamauryyeah perfect
01:03:31chrisjjThanks, done.
01:04:17 Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:04:23chrisjjHey, what do you think about the idea of a version terminology cleanup week??
01:04:55pamauryI guess there are *lots* of places on the wiki which still refer to the SVN
01:05:06chrisjjOnly kidding :)
01:05:25chrisjjI'll amend any SNV version references I see...
01:06:26 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
01:07:21chrisjjI wanted to ask your thoughts on the ZEN BSoD. Putting aside the "black screen" part, what do you think might be causing the "death" i.e. the non-responsiveness to buttons?
01:07:54chrisjjI won't say **the cpu crashed** again :) but clearly the CPU is stuck somehow.
01:10:09pamaurywell, if I read correctly that the bootloader always manage to print something on the screen, and since the bootloader and rockbox code are running the same code, I think it might be due to some timing problem. For example some irqs or threads running in parallel of the lcd init and somehow disturbing it
01:10:12pamaurybut that's just a guess
01:10:54pamaurythe bootloader and rockbox don't have exactly the same init code
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01:13:58chrisjjSure that could cause the black screen... but I'm thinking about what could cause the death.
01:14:07chrisjjThe death is a CPU state, not an LCD state.
01:14:49chrisjjI wonder what actual state the CPU is in when "dead"... and how on earth any problem with the LCD code could get it there.
01:16:39pamaurymy other theory is that it is related to power management
01:16:58pamaurythat's the typical source of cpu hang with explaination
01:19:08 Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
01:23:04 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 26.0/20131125215016])
01:23:45chrisjjSo that CPU hang is what, precisely? Infinite loop?
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01:24:38pamauryis that's a power problem, it's a hung state, probably voltage brownout or something
01:25:16pamauryor pure and simple cpu lock up, strange things can happen when you drive the cpu out of the safe lands :)
01:25:32 Quit JdGordon| (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:26:08chrisjjOh, you mean the voltage on CPU Vcc is inadequate?
01:27:29pamaurythe power management is complicated, if you don't do the right things in the right order, you can cause VDD or VDDIO brownouts yes
01:27:47pamauryI ran into many such problems on imx233 in the early development
01:28:12pamaurybut again, just a theory
01:28:40pamauryhowever there should be a way to test it using the watchdog and reset maybe
01:29:13pamaurycan you compile rockbox or not ?
01:30:33chrisjjNo I can't compile.
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01:31:58pamaurythey still are a few things to try out, like commenting the whole power setup code, add watchdog handler to blink the power led on massive failure and so on
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01:46:45Chuckeryhallo everybody
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01:47:06Chuckeryhow are you doing today?
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01:51:26rocketninei'm great and yourself?
01:51:50Chuckerypretty good
01:51:59Chuckeryrockbox seems pretty cool
01:52:19Chuckerybut what I'm really looking at is some sort of mod for the ipod nano 7th generation
01:52:29Chuckerybeen shuffling through the files
01:52:32Chuckerypain in the arse
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01:54:39Chuckeryseems like the sort of software that rockbox uses
01:54:55Chuckeryneed to be completely redone in order for it to allow use on the 7g platform
01:55:13ChuckeryI tried loading some modified firmware on the ipod
01:55:16Chuckeryand it flipped shit
01:55:22Chuckerywent black
01:55:28Chuckerywouldn't mount
01:55:41Chuckeryfinally if came back on after about 5 hours
01:55:52Chuckerydunno what happened
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02:00:03shadowsno clue about Apple devices only know that I've read the firmware is encrypted or something like this
02:00:19shadowsthere is work in progress to have rockbox as an app
02:00:32shadowsmeanwhile you might try VideoLAN Client for iOS
02:02:57Chuckerynah bruh
02:03:01Chuckerythis isn't ios
02:03:17Chuckerythis is the weird shit that apple put on the new ipod nano
02:03:19shadowsoh okaya
02:03:19Chuckery7th generation
02:03:59shadowsI have Sansa Fuze / Clip / and also Android devices so I won't know much about your Apple device sorry
02:04:12Chuckerythat's fine
02:04:22ChuckeryI was just wondering if anybody had ideas about it
02:04:33ChuckeryI think my issue with the bricking stuff
02:04:49Chuckeryis that it freaks out after realizing the cache is not correct
02:04:59ChuckeryI used to be able to bypass that with
02:05:04Chuckerybut the site has gone down since
02:05:08Chuckeryand I don't have the program
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02:27:46amayeris gerrit still down? i get 503
02:32:04amayerI was kind of eager to see the new one
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05:46:10[Saint]That's slightly annoying. Warble freaks out if you clean the build folder.
05:46:59[Saint]and you apparently can't pick it up and move it around without annoying it either.
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09:34:55mortalisZagor: what happened with gerrit?
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09:39:34GodEaterUpgrade gone wrong I'm guessing :)
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11:07:07Zagorhum, I didn't touch gerrit
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11:20:28pamaurywodz: thanks for the info on the SDRAM ! How did you find out ? I couldn't find a datasheet
11:20:39pamaury2MB is not a lot, I thought it would have more :-/
11:29:14wodzpamaury: my google-fu is strong today!
11:30:15pamauryhey that's unfair, today I typed the *exact* same search string as yesterday and now the datasheet is the second result
11:30:54pamauryand incidentally, I had the datasheet on my hard drive but only realised it this morning
11:31:02wodzpamaury: different computer? google returns different results for me on home machine and when I am at work
11:31:37wodzI guess it tracks your queries history or something
11:39:45wodzpamaury: Did you try current version of clang to build rb for arm?
11:40:10pamaurynope, maybe I can try again tonight, but I'm lazy, building clang takes hours
11:40:33pamauryI think they are in RC, maybe they have a prebuilt version
11:40:47wodzno, they don't
11:41:44pamauryok, I'll launch a compile now then, to be sure it's working tonight ^^
11:42:11pamauryalso it takes Gigas of disk space
11:42:26wodzOr at least I couldn't find it. It took about 2h to compile on my box. Compilation is considerably faster with -j1 as single thread takes 2-3GB of mem so with more threads it starts to swap on my box
11:43:42pamauryI already had to download and recompile kate myself two days ago, I'm trying to track a memory leak and I already help found one bug
11:44:10wodzwhats kate?
11:44:50pamaurytext editor
11:45:28pamauryI hope you are not a dangerous user of Vim or Emacs, are you ?
11:45:51*wodz is proud user of Vim !
11:46:14pamaurykate has a Vi mode :p but no one seriously use that I think
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12:59:25KetturiPossible idea: menu for sound setting profiles, example to change between loudspeaker and headphone profile, changing config file even from shortcuts add one unnessesery step and is not clean solution to day to day use
13:00:19KetturiOr shortcut to config file could load file straight from one select press, not show user the .rockbox folder with all files
13:03:52pamauryKetturi: I'm not sure I understand, is that so hard to go into Settings > Load/Restore/Save ? Or just change one setting when you need ?
13:06:13Ketturiwell not that hard, but doing that settings -> load path every time changing between headphones and speakers is bit anoying, but still best solution it seems
13:07:32pamaurywhich target ?
13:09:39Ketturiipod, which i must admit is very intuitive to move in menus, better than some other devices
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13:15:10pamauryI was not aware that we supported the speaker on some ipods
13:16:07lebelliumwhich one?
13:17:19pamauryor I misunderstood which setting(s) you are referring to
13:18:22fragilemattermaybe he's referring to external active speakers
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13:19:25Ketturiyah, external speakers, which could not be detected as they use normal audio out
13:20:23pamauryah ok, so you have different set of audio parameters for different situations
13:20:54pamauryso your problem is that load/save saves all settings and you would prefer to only touch the audio ones
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13:43:09*[Saint] can't see why Shortcuts isn't an adequate solution.
13:54:11SrRavenAnyone here have the FiiO X3?
13:54:52lebelliumNo, those people are on head-fi :)
13:55:35SrRavenhaha yeah I guess so :/
13:55:57pixelmaKetturi: also you can prepare config files that just include the settings you want to change
13:57:14[Saint]ah, yes, indeed. That's worth mentioning. my response kinda assumed that knowledge was present.
13:57:35Ketturipixelma: yeah I found that out, but still menu with settable profiles would be nice ;P
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13:58:32[Saint]The problem is its /such/ a niche case, and the functionality is already there by way of the Shortcuts menu.
13:58:54[Saint]So, I wouldn't hold my breath, as it were.
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14:02:04pixelma[Saint]: I would need to read up on the shortcuts menu actually but maybe you can give a quick answer... What can you put there if you want to change more than one setting at once (e.g. bass, treble and volume) - can you put config files there or something similar?
14:02:53KetturiYou can but config files there, but shortcut leads to folder where they are
14:02:59Ketturiso its like 3 clics or so
14:03:27[Saint]It'll definitely be at least that from a menu
14:03:56[Saint]This wouldn't ever make it to the "main page" of the menu.
14:04:06[Saint]To be honest I doubt it would make it in at all.
14:05:07Ketturithout with ipods and audi out docs it could be made to automatically detect, when device is conneted
14:07:39[Saint]And what if you use several docks? Hope they all use the same audio configuration?
14:07:49pixelmaso you would have a shortcut to lead you to the "Browse .cfg Files" in "Settings > Manage Settings"? Not sure that's worth it but maybe
14:08:22[Saint]pixelma: no, you have the shortcut lead you to whereever you left the file, with it selected as the current item.
14:09:01[Saint]basically, the caveat is having to press select twice. that's it.
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19:16:10pamaurychrisjj: yes ?
19:16:43chrisjjJust checking... :)
19:18:35chrisjjBut since you are here, tell me please, from where precisely in the source tree comes the full device name ? e.g. the string "Creative Zen" in the heading here:
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19:20:42pamauryI think they come from here:;a=blob;f=buildserver/builds;h=dbfcca1e47bc0978d3d50ccb9f638e03654ae280;hb=HEAD
19:26:28chrisjjThanks but then how come the two show different casing "Creative Zen" v "Creative ZEN" ?
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19:30:43pamaurymust come from something else then ^^
19:31:41pamaurycould be this:;a=blob;f=tools/;h=43e5291f1fcfde376e7119c97abf587944d4f32d;hb=HEAD
19:31:50pamauryI don't know how exactly this page is generated
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19:38:31chrisjj_I'd hope that is generated from tools\configure;a=blob;f=tools/configure;h=b33c798a3a783e17ff86e4bc80372806203e762c;hb=HEAD
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19:40:12pamaurychrisjj_: no, configure is just a technical tools to do the build
19:40:33pamaurytools/ tells the status of the ports and what should be build on release (more or less)
19:40:37chrisjj"technical tools"? Could you explain?
19:40:50pamauryyou run it to compile rockbox
19:41:05chrisjjSo, what carries the info on a new port from tools/configure to tools/builds?
19:41:29pamauryit contains all the information to *compile* Rockbox, but it doesn't contain any information about the status target or whether we should release or whether the build server should build it
19:41:59pamauryfirst you edit configure, when target works you add it to tools/builds to have the build bots compile it on each commit
19:42:12pamauryerr sorry to buildserver/builds
19:42:36pamauryand finally you add it to tools/ to give the target status, that's what is used by the website I think
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19:43:34chrisjjOK, thanks - I'll add a placeholder for that additional extra step to
19:44:27pamaurywell that's not really part of the porting procedure
19:44:47pamaurythat's more about releasing than porting
19:46:39chrisjjOK, then I'll wait for :)
19:47:35pamauryyeah we should definitely write this down
19:48:05gevaertsWell, there is
19:48:10gevaertsNot entirely up to date though
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19:49:11pamauryit tells how to do the release but not how to add a player to the release or change its status
19:49:21chrisjj_We need Google Summer of Documentation :)
19:50:24pamauryif everyone who knew something important would write it down, that would already be a lot
19:50:45chrisjj_Excuse all the nick changes - freenode webclient has been crashing all day.()
19:50:49pamaurylike me trying to documentation the porting procedure ^^ I've stalled we could say ;)
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19:51:28chrisjj_These things have to be a two-man job IME. One thinks and talks, the other listens and writes.
19:54:13chrisjj_Back to the target name, it seems the ultimate source is target/configure ... except that some steps from that are manual and a little error-prone.
19:55:23pamauryDepends what you mean by target name: name displayed in Rockbox ? name displayed on the website ? name by the tools ? name in the manual ? We have multiple copies
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19:56:19chrisjj_Well yes we do have multiple copies, and they are often inconsistent e,g, case Createive ZEN, Creative Zen.
19:56:57chrisjj_Tell me if I am wrong, but we'd hope for consistent name on RB, site, and manual, for sure.
19:57:24chrisjj_And we'd hope for correct name e.g. Creative ZEN, not Creative Zen.
19:58:26pamauryPersonally I don't care but yeah I guess we'd hope for consistency, although ZEN vs Zen does not seem to be the biggest issue at the moment :)
19:58:44chrisjj_Perhaps I should say not "correct" but "official".
19:59:48gevaertsUsually there is no single official name
19:59:48chrisjj_Well even RB is not the biggest issue at the moment :)
19:59:55gevaertsTry e.g. finding how to capitalise iriver
20:01:23chrisjj_Um, no capitalisation, surely?
20:01:40gevaertsIt changes over time
20:03:10gevaertsI think we need to concentrate on the internal names (like "sansafuzeplus"). Inconsistency there can cause actual issues. I dpnm
20:03:42gevaertsI don't care much about the fancy other name
20:05:53chrisjj_A goos way to get consitent internal name would be to start with a consistent external name, and a simple policy rule to apply to it.
20:07:15gevaertsSo what do you do with things that have multiple external names?
20:07:20chrisjj_Currently the source seems to have three internal names - modelname target and t_model - and no external.
20:07:36gevaertsThe source doesn't need any external name
20:07:51pamaurychrisjj_: I think you must realise that what happen in real life in the opposite: people hack something and one day it works on sansafuzeplus, so they call it "Sansa Fuze+"
20:07:53chrisjj_... and all three seems inconsistent... unless there's a policy here that I don't know.
20:08:45chrisjj_Sure I realise devs hack it. Just like I see users hack the RB binary... and get called stupid :)
20:09:46chrisjj_People are forced to hack where there's nothing better, e.g. something to tell them how to do it properly.
20:10:37pamauryAre there people hacking RB binary ?
20:11:17chrisjj_Multiple external names are not a problem. RB needs only one. I suggest the porter's job includes choosing the best... and writing it in to target//configure "official_name" or somesuch.
20:11:41gevaertsThey are
20:12:00chrisjj_P, yes e.g.
20:12:28pamauryoh my...
20:12:29gevaertsYou're overlooking things that use the same firmware but are seen as different devices
20:13:42pamaurylike the creativezen target which is actually compiled to Creative ZEN, ZEN X-Fi, ZEN V and ZEN Mozaic
20:17:14pamauryanyway, I understand we are not doing things perfectly but I think we achieve something reasonable with how current way of working
20:17:38pamaury*with our
20:18:00chrisjj_No, I'm not overlooking that. creativezen is not "the same firmware" for the different devices.
20:19:00chrisjj_And note that Creative ZEN, ZEN X-Fi, ZEN V and ZEN Mozaic *are* individual targets in /configure
20:19:07gevaertsiaudio X5 X5L X5V
20:19:11pamaurybut not in the source code
20:19:25gevaertsPhilips GoGear HDD1630 HDD1830
20:19:35gevaertsIpod 1G and 2G
20:19:37pamauryNWZ E380 / E370
20:19:43chrisjj_P, I agree the result is reasonable. All of RB is more than reasonable. But still we seek to improve, no?
20:20:54chrisjj_What do you think about putting the RB official device name in /configure? Then the code, site and manual can all take it from there, saving repeated manual copy and adjust.
20:22:07pamauryit's not as simple, things get compiled/used in very different ways, it's actually more trouble than anything
20:22:08chrisjj_e.g. target_id=90 targetname="Creative ZEN"
20:22:12gevaertsFirst of all, if it should be anywhere, it should be in
20:22:22gevaertsor similar
20:22:34gevaertsconfigure is just one of the many users of the name
20:22:50chrisjj_In even though the other three names are in configure?
20:23:29chrisjj_And in even though the target is not there before release?
20:26:07pamauryIf it's just a matter of a spelling, running grep on the entire source tree to check it the same everywhere seems no big deal
20:26:27pamauryfar simpler than having complicated mechanism to write it in one place
20:33:58chrisjj_Wouold that be safe? I'd assumed there was some reason for the current three different spellings in configure. Else why would the second and third have been added?
20:34:21pamaurywhich spelling ?
20:35:08chrisjj_Spelling in e.g.
20:35:26chrisjj_modelname="creativezen" target="CREATIVE_ZEN" t_model="creative-zen"
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20:36:41pamaurythese are *very* different:
20:36:41pamaury- modelname is the switch used to where running configure again (so it's local to configure)
20:36:41pamaury- target is the name of the #define used in the source to identify the target
20:36:41DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
20:36:41pamaury- t_model is the name of the subdirectory under firmware/target/<arch>
20:41:20chrisjj_No surprise there. :)
20:42:19pamaurynotice none of them is displayed somewhere, these are all internal
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20:43:03pamauryactually modelname is not very local to the script since it's used by all the tools which call configure, so that's many of them ^^ That the most important one in fact
20:43:05chrisjj_So it seems to me ti would be very tricky to use a tree grep to check that all the spellings that should be the same are the same.
20:43:31pamauryyou don't get it, these are ***internal***, they don't mean anything, they are not displayed
20:43:38chrisjj_I get it.
20:44:04pamauryyour target could be called fuckingmanufacturer-stupiddac and display "Beautiful device on screen" ^^
20:44:40chrisjj_Yup :) But where in the source would I define "Beautiful device on screen"??
20:45:02chrisjj_To be clear: where would I define the variable having the value "Beautiful device on screen"?
20:45:19pamauryin the target config file, there is a #define which gives the name of the device to be displayed on the screen
20:46:07pamaury#define MODEL_NAME "Creative Zen"
20:46:55pamaurybut I'm not sure it's even used somewhere
20:47:08pamaurymaybe in some bootloaders and plugins
20:47:37pamaurybe back soon
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22:25:26wodzpamaury: ping
22:28:13pamaurywodz: pong
22:30:14wodzpamaury: are blocking transfers used at all in rockbox usb? I spotted in rk27xx driver that struct endpoint_t defines semaphore for blocking transfers which is NOT volatile but it is released in IRQ context. I don't know if that matters but it is definitely a bug
22:30:46pamauryyeah blocking transfers are used
22:31:31pamauryah indeed
22:32:17pamaurywodz: but isn't semaphore already volatile ?
22:32:50wodzpamaury: BTW. after more detailed study of the driver for cusb2 in ralink sources I think I know all important bits to implement udc driver.
22:32:54wodzpamaury: don't know
22:34:17pamaurykernel.h shows it has a few volatile fields
22:35:36pamauryyeah I think it's okay, the semaphore code is already irq protected and the fields which matter are volatile
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22:37:00pamaurybut you can try to see if it makes a difference :)
22:37:25wodzthis driver works on my dap/computer so I will not see any difference
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23:03:12pamaurygevaerts: in sd.h
23:03:13pamaurybool sd_removable(IF_MV_NONVOID(int drive));
23:03:13pamaurybool sd_present(IF_MV_NONVOID(int drive));
23:03:28pamaurythat seems wrong, it should be IF_MD_NONVOID right ?
23:07:00pamauryyeah definitely, others storage systems use IF_MD
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23:49:14pamauryyeah I managed to make i2c read work in PIO mode
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23:49:20pamauryeven though the datasheet says it's impossible
23:50:56[Saint]s/impossible/...we tried and gave up/
23:51:16[Saint](possibly didn't even try :))
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