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#rockbox log for 2013-12-15

00:16:53 Quit Narod- ()
00:38:55fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision c72b454, 243 builds, 34 clients.
00:41:34fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 160 seconds.
00:47:26fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision ed5b853, 243 builds, 34 clients.
00:48:29kugelmy work was quite a ram size win
00:49:33kugelthis is because previously the line buffer for scrolling was per-line
00:49:55kugelnow there is a single one, and it gets re-used in a whole-display scroll cycle
00:50:14fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 168 seconds.
00:50:48kugelgevaerts: recorder build broken again
00:53:10 Join JdGordon| [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:53:49[Saint]Well done, Sir. Well done.
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01:01:07 Quit JdGordon| (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
01:01:43 Quit ender` (Quit: Documentation is like sex: when it's good, it's very good, and when it's bad it's still better than nothing.)
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01:52:40chrisjjHmmm... I cant find the Creative Zen X-Fi3 in the current RButil, V1.3.1. Is it just me?
01:56:25[Saint]That would be intentional.
01:57:06[Saint]AFAIK the only unusable target that appears there is the Classic, and I'm not too fond of that to be honest.
01:57:12 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:58:01[Saint]It seems wrong to offer a way to update Rockbox on a target where installation is totally unsupported. But, mah.
01:59:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:16:54chrisjj[Saint]: OK, thanks. BTW, which is this unusable Classic? If you refer to iPod Classic (iPod 6g), well that too does not show for me:
02:17:48[Saint]'ll also notice that you don't have "Show disabled targets" checked.
02:18:11chrisjj:) Thanks.
02:26:39chrisjjDoes Rockbox Utility have a designated maintainer? None is mentioned in docs/MAINTAINERS.
02:35:49chrisjjbluebrother: see above :)
02:38:10 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)
02:39:17[Saint]I'm unsure of what you think needs attention.
02:40:28[Saint]There's nothing stopping you from adding it.
02:40:42chrisjjSure about that?
02:42:41chrisjjThanks. I see so many amends that apparently all the Devs have been apparently stopped from making, that I wonder.
02:43:44chrisjjbluebrother: If you're around, you might like to know the "Read the manual" links for Archos Jukebox Recorder v2 (20GB) are broken.
02:44:27[Saint]I mean this in the nicest possible way, but, sometimes, most of the time, I have no idea what you're talking about. Or if you do.
02:45:45chrisjjIf you try those links, you'll know what I mean.
02:46:12[Saint]I'm not talking about that. I mean all these devs that have apparently been shut down.
02:46:26[Saint]That's flatly untrue.
02:48:20chrisjjOK, I guess they all have better things to do that e.g. maintain MAINTAiNERS.
02:50:39 Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
02:52:27chrisjjBTW, are archived Rockbox Manual builds available anywhere? I find see the archived code builds, but not any Manual builds.
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02:54:31[Saint]I don't think so.
02:54:36[Saint]I doubt it makes much sense.
02:55:16[Saint]The manual very rarely changes. Not enough that it makes sense to offer ~3 archived builds. ~99% of the time they'd be identical.
03:01:10chrisjj" don't think so." OK, thanks.
03:01:46chrisjj" ~99% of the time they'd be identical." Not if they were the last three changed versions. :)
03:03:06[Saint]Those archived builds are provided purely for convenience. The general view is that if you want a specific version, you'll build it.
03:05:24[Saint]There are very rarely ever cases where there will be a change which means a new manual will no longer apply to an older build. Very rarely.
03:05:54[Saint]Worst usual case is that the new manual will simply list features the old one doesn't. The rest should still apply.
03:07:24[Saint]unless you're talking about extreme cases where either the manual or the binary is /drastically/ older than the other, it shouldn't be an issue.
03:16:08 Quit dfkt_ (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
03:17:29chrisjjI want to cite a specific page, so I need a permalink to a fixed copy. But no matter. Thanks.
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09:30:10lolcats_yo, recently i installed rockbox on a 6th gen ipod, however when i first boot into rockbox i receive the message "loading rockbox.ipod failed! trying fallback image..." .
09:30:38lolcats_as such i can put media onto the device but when i try to play anything it does not work
09:30:54lolcats_anyone else have this issue? any imput would help thanks
09:31:16[Saint]That just means you didn't follow the instructions through and forgot the actually load a Rockbox binary onto the device.
09:31:35[Saint]*to actually
09:32:04lolcats_the rockbox.ipod and rockbox files are on the device
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09:32:10lolcats_should i just start fromt he beginning?
09:32:11[Saint] <−− extract this .zip to the root of the device
09:32:27[Saint]Oh. Hmmm. I see.
09:32:55[Saint]That points to the filesystem being corrupt then, one guesses.
09:34:31lolcats_k extracting that zip to the root. ill let you know if it fixws it
09:35:26[Saint]Sorry, my answer was a little hasty (the symptom you described is a regular user error).
09:35:47[Saint]If the files are actually there, then, that changes things.
09:36:17lolcats_i just replaced them with the files from the link you provided and everything is fine now.
09:36:21lolcats_you are a wizard sir.
09:36:52[Saint]You should still inspect the filesystem, otherwise there's every chance this may continue to happen.
09:37:18[Saint]And it might choose to chew up and spit out data you care about next time.
09:37:32[Saint]("it" being "the filesystem corruption goblin")
09:37:43[Saint]{they're very real...}
09:38:08lolcats_ill be on guard
09:38:11lolcats_thank you sir
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11:49:35pamaurychrisjj: yes
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17:37:39 Join Szczepancio [0] (
17:38:03Szczepanciolebellium: Have you done any work on e370 series?
17:38:40SzczepancioAfter my absence.
17:42:28lebelliumSzczepancio: I don't do anything, I'm not a dev :)
17:42:47lebelliumpamaury is
17:44:10SzczepancioI know that pamaury is an dev :)
17:44:23lebelliumSo why do you ask me? :)
17:44:38SzczepancioBecause pamaury said you is interested in keymapping.
17:44:57SzczepancioI thinked that you did something or so.
17:45:05SzczepancioI was thinking*
17:45:16lebelliumYes I reworked the keymapping as I already told you last time
17:45:36SzczepancioBut no plugin mapping, yup?
17:45:40SzczepancioDo you have an e370?
17:45:47lebelliumand as I also told you last time I'm not interested in doing the plugins keymapping
17:45:54lebelliumI have a E360
17:46:03SzczepancioBut I was thinking you made a change :) But you didn't.
17:46:31SzczepancioIt's not bad at all.
17:47:37lebelliumAs pamaury is working on dozens of targets at the same time, I don't believe he will work on the NWZ plugins keymapping anytime soon. If you want it done, you should consider doing it yourself!
17:47:54SzczepancioI can it make done, but on e470. But no hack avalibe.
17:48:24SzczepancioI can done it on e370 too, but I am too no interested it in.
17:51:29lebelliumE470 may have raw nand like E440, which makes the port difficult. Pamaury is trying to reverse the FTL but no luck so far
17:52:39SzczepancioWhat is FTL?
17:53:25lebelliumI guess Flash Translation Layer?
17:53:31lebelliumNot sure though
17:54:14SzczepancioYep, it is it.
17:59:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:03:11lebelliumSzczepancio: And I don't know if you already noticed it, but the battery life has been improved with the November, 30th build. On E360 it is now 20hrs instead of 10hrs.
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18:17:20Szczepanciolebellium: Interesing.
18:18:47Szczepanciolebellium: On E370 is the same?
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18:19:33TheSzczepancioSorry for logout. Disconnect by peer.
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18:19:45lebelliumyes it should be the same
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18:20:06TheSzczepancioOk, lebellium, can you say - on e370 is the same?
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19:59:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:26:13pamauryThe E470 is linux based so completely different, and no I haven't made progress on the keymaps, I didn't have much time and spent it on more useful stuff
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20:46:49pamauryI need to build a usb current measurement tool to hunt this battery life problem
20:47:20lebelliumon NWZ?
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20:54:24saratogapamaury: you mean a current meter and a USB cable?
20:54:47saratogaheh, banning from the forums blocked 893 spammers in the last few days
20:54:48pamaurysomething like this yeah, I hope it's sufficiently precise
20:55:00pamauryany advise ?
20:55:08saratogai think a normal DMM should be fine
20:55:11saratogathey are quite cheap
20:55:37saratogait will only give you the time averaged power wiht maybe 1 second resolution, but that should be fine
20:56:16saratogafor a little more, you can also buy banna plugs that fit into the DMM, and then solder the other end into a cheap USB extension cable
20:56:33saratogamaybe 20-30 USD total
20:56:49pamauryDMM ?
20:56:57saratogadigital multi meter
20:57:00[Saint]It seems like it'd be easier to hack up a cable and use a multimeter.
20:57:01pamauryah ^^
20:57:19[Saint]or, I could look up what DMM is... ;)
20:57:59*[Saint] admits to never having heard it referred to in that way before
20:58:49pamauryfirst I need to find a culprit cable and cut it ^^
20:59:47saratogain the USA, amazon has them for a dollar or two
20:59:54saratogai would order both together
21:00:15saratogaDMM + 1m USB extension cable + banana plugs
21:00:18[Saint]Whoah, expensive.
21:00:48[Saint]I can make up cables for about $0.80NZD/m
21:01:07[Saint]but I guess it depends what your time and effort is worth too...
21:01:16saratogaalternatively, if you an ADC of some kind that is DC coupled you can make your own
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21:05:00saratogabit more expensive but well rated
21:11:00saratogacheaper and highly rated:
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21:16:34saratogafound my old opus profile results from last year:
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21:16:52*pamaury does not know what DC coupled mean
21:17:17[Saint]saratoga: is there anything interesting to cram back into our sources from Opus?
21:17:29[Saint]Or is it mostly needless (to us) cruft?
21:17:39saratogapamaury: able to measure a DC voltage
21:17:58saratogamost audio ADCs have a capacitor, so they can only measure 20Hz and up
21:18:39saratoga[Saint]: i don't know, but the tests I did before suggests something like 70% of the runtime was just hte transform step, and it doesn't look liek much has changed there
21:21:43pamaurysaratoga: does a circuit with a resistor in series with vddd and an adc to measure the voltage drop accross with <insert random arduino/arm board with ADC> provides reliable measurements ?
21:21:59[Saint]I have played with it briefly on the raspi, but, the analogue out on it is just *sooooo* shit.
21:22:17saratogapamaury: yes, although the votlage drop will be relatively small so you might need an opamp too
21:22:29[Saint]And its too much effort to swap around the inputs on my amp.
21:22:44saratogaalthough i guess if the A/D isn't bad you might be ok
21:23:00[Saint]HDMI audio is superb, but, the analogue out is awful. Rather sad really.
21:23:06pamaurythe best I have is 12-bit adc on my stellaris board I think
21:23:22saratogathe voltage drop across the shunt resistor drops the voltage to the player, so you probably don't want to have more than a few hundred millivolts to measure
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21:24:48pamaurythe simplest method still is the digital multimeter one, I have one somewhere of relatively good quality
21:24:55saratogathis board?
21:25:32pamauryyes, I think so
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21:26:45saratogathat looks like it'd probably work if you picked the shunt resistor right
21:26:51saratogai'd use a DMM though
21:26:57saratogano reason not to
21:27:05saratogaunless you want higher time resolution for some reason
21:28:34pamauryI'll try and see, thanks
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21:30:21saratogafwiw, i used a < 100 USD DMM recently at work for measuring power to an AC motor running at KHz with just a few mA of current and it worked quite well
21:30:45saratogafor what you are doing the currents will be large and slowly varying, so the measurement will not be very demanding of the hardware
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21:47:20fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 5b5f075, 243 builds, 35 clients.
21:51:47fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 267 seconds.
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21:57:27saratoga_bluebrother: is there any reason we couldn't do an rbutil release soon? Its been a while since there was a stable and your current development builds are a large improvement over the current release
21:59:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:10:22[Saint]saratoga_: ...any chance of getting the button pushed on g#626 you think?
22:10:24fs-bluebotGerrit review #626 at : DSP Compressor: Sidechain, Exponential Atk/Rls by Ryan Billing (changes/26/626/4)
22:10:48saratoga_i was hoping i wouldn't have to do it because if it breaks something i can never figure out how to fix with git
22:11:25saratoga_i guess i can
22:11:36saratoga_have you compiled it recently?
22:12:44Szczepanciopamaury: Just interested, what distro of Linux you are using for developing?
22:12:56[Saint]saratoga_: I have, yes.
22:13:06saratoga_no wanrings or conflicts?
22:13:38[Saint]I'll re-check, better safe than sorry.
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22:20:33[Saint]I built a variety of targets (which took ages for some reason), all is well in the world.
22:20:52[Saint]Apologies for the delay, there is unusually high CPU/IO usage on my server.
22:21:30lebelliumI remember someone said some time ago the new compressor made playback laggy on his player but I can't find the logs :(
22:22:05 Quit onder` (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:22:06[Saint]I'm guessing that would be on PP, and almost certainly with a lot of other stupid settings applied.
22:22:52saratoga_yeah the benchmarks look quite good, less than 3 MHz speed hit on PP
22:23:03saratoga_thats basically nothing
22:23:44saratoga_ok i'll push the button on this
22:24:09fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision d0918b9, 243 builds, 35 clients.
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22:24:18[Saint]This one was really one I was hoping you'd be around for.
22:24:27[Saint]You do seem to be "codec guy", after all.
22:25:00[Saint]...which is probably why it sat there for so long, few willing to touch it in case it unleashed demons.
22:26:13saratoga_i actually only do the codecs, the DSP is completely separate
22:26:19saratoga_jhmikes is the DSP expert
22:26:34*[Saint] makes notes
22:26:52[Saint]I have a "people to bug about <>" list. :)
22:27:38fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 209 seconds.
22:27:48[Saint]I haven't seen JhMikes around for a while.
22:28:11[Saint]Last I saw of him he dropped a *massive* FAT rework on gerrit and basically disappeared.
22:28:31[Saint]I really should get that compiling again.
22:28:49saratoga_he comes and goes, usually with a gigantic patch
22:28:57saratoga_been doing that since before i was here
22:29:14saratoga_of course now that I commit i notice this: "Max number of samples to delay960 output (960 = 5ms @ 192 kHz)"
22:29:17[Saint]In my experience, that seems to be the guy's style. A bit of a lone wolf. Come in, drop a massive rework on us, and disappear quietly until next time.
22:30:20saratoga_ah no, the comment is misleading, much larger delays are allowed
22:30:44[Saint]where are we?
22:30:48[Saint]Oh. Ah. yes.
22:31:07saratoga_[Saint]: can you try the compressor with the maximum attack time?
22:31:18saratoga_and the sample rate set to 48khz
22:31:53saratoga_48khz times 30 milliseconds is 1440 samples, but the buffer is less than that
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22:32:56saratoga_ah theres a check for this case, so it simply caps you at the maximum delay allowed for your sampling rate
22:34:16[Saint]There's a tiny bit of initial lag in the fallback (due to the peak meters I believe), but, all is well.
22:34:37[Saint]48kHz content, -3dB threshold, maximum attack time.
22:34:57[Saint](320mp3 CBR)
22:35:06[Saint]...on PP.
22:35:36saratoga_the buffer is only long enough for 21 milliseconds of history at 44.1k, i wonder why the setting goes to 30 ms
22:36:09[Saint]SO, do we increase the allowable buffer, or decrease the allowable attack time?
22:37:15*[Saint] apologizes for not catching this
22:37:28[Saint]I have a massive case of the guilts right now.
22:38:04[Saint]...but, if JhMikes didn't, I guess I can rest a bit easier.
22:38:27saratoga_i'm not sure
22:38:54saratoga_i think it actually does change things if you set the delay longer than the buffer
22:39:07saratoga_i don't fully understand the algorithm here
22:39:08lebellium[Saint] saratoga look for "Narod"
22:39:51saratoga_i'm tempted to cap the compressor at 25 milliseconds just because it'll be less unpredictable
22:40:23[Saint]lebellium: Hmmmm...odd.
22:40:49[Saint]I can't speak for that user, but, I can say that I am currently testing one of the worst possible cases for this, and, its absolutely fine here.
22:41:17saratoga_yeah i think it works fine, i just suspect that 25 and 30 ms do essentially the same thing
22:41:45saratoga_actually the buffer is exactly 20 ms at 48k, so that might be a sensible maximum
22:41:46[Saint]compressor+3 bands of EQ with 48kHz content...on 80MHz PP
22:42:07[Saint]I would expect that to show any failure cases or lag, were it going to.
22:42:57saratoga_in this case it doesn't fail, the code checks for out of bounds, its just misleading since it'll adjust the gain but not actually look further than abotu 20-22 ms
22:43:06saratoga_not sure how that sounds
22:43:29[Saint]If that's the case, then we should cap the attack lookahead.
22:44:00[Saint]Well...that's my feeling, but if you have a better solution.
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22:45:56[Saint]Its a nice feature, and I think it agreeable that it is wanted, but I also believe that if it is misleading any any way or form as to its abilities that should be addressed.
22:46:22[Saint]Again, I apologize for not catching this myself.
22:46:40[Saint]I only checked it functioned and the code was sound, not that all the math made sense.
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22:50:58[Saint]lebellium: there's also a high chance that user's issues were caused by the current state of the target used
22:51:29[Saint]At this stage now I wouldn't expect the 360 to be anywhere near perfect. Let alone then.
22:51:40lebellium[Saint]: well, I have the E360 myself so I could try and confirm or not what the user says. But I don't even know what a DSP compressor is for :D
22:52:27[Saint]It would've been helpful to grab his config.cfg to look at, but, nevermind.
22:52:34 Quit K1773R (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
22:52:48lebelliumI'll have a look on my E360 tonight or tomorrow and I'll let you know
22:52:55[Saint]At this stage I'm just going to believe it was a target specific anomaly.
22:54:11[Saint]I have a few PP targets to test on here, and they certainly _should_ show these types of issues, were they going to happen. There's very little room for DSP effects on these targets.
22:54:46lebellium[Saint] even though it's a new port, it's close to Fuze+ with a STMP3780 so I don't see why there would be any issue on NWZ
22:55:04pamaurywhat is the issue here ?
22:55:14lebelliumsee my link above pamaury
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22:56:01[Saint]15:09NarodOh, now that I see the e360 being mentioned: The new compressor seems to cause a few issues on the e360.
22:56:01[Saint]15:10NarodI pulled the current repo and applied the patch and it built successfully. But after a couple of songs the audio playback starts skipping (plays 1 - 2 seconds, then pauses for another 2 seconds) and the device becomes unresponsive until I reset it.
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22:59:09[Saint]By my understanding, the 360/70 is a fairly capale target, no?
22:59:34[Saint]At least comparable or better than the PP iPods?
23:00:13[Saint](With DSP related stuff, I like to test on PP as there's such little "wiggle room" there)
23:00:26pamauryyeah it's very powerful
23:00:54[Saint]Right. So that makes very little sense.
23:01:35pamaury450MHz armv5
23:02:21[Saint]If we start getting a bunch of complaints, I guess we'll know. But I suspect there's going to be few cases that can compete with PP using compressor and EQ with 48KHz content.
23:02:46[Saint]And if that does happen, I would question the sanity of the user's config.
23:03:40[Saint]450MHz?, just a /tiny/ bit more powerful than the PP iPods then? ;)
23:04:13saratoga_everything is more powerful than the ipods
23:04:29saratoga_arm7 is almost as old as i am
23:09:39[Saint]Wasn't it like, '94 or so?
23:09:53saratoga_ah yeah, was thinking 1990 for some reason
23:09:59saratoga_but yeah, almost 20 years old
23:10:13[Saint]Came in with the Risc PC, iirc.
23:10:19 Part itoikenza_
23:10:39[Saint]well...came in to popularity.
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23:47:09lebelliumhum on my E360 I see: Threshold: Makeup Gain, Ratio, Knee, Attack Time, Release Time. The commit comment says "sidechain filtering" and "look-ahead". Where's that? (yes, I don't understand anything about the compressor, sorry :S )
23:51:51lebelliumah ok
23:51:57lebelliumthose are not settings
23:52:00lebelliumbut "features"

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