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#rockbox log for 2014-01-09

00:00:06[Saint]I seem to recall that if it needs to the 9patch code will overlap slightly if its not a multiple of 3.
00:00:07 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...)
00:00:53chrisjjtoehser1: Is there any difference of WPS theme from default, except font?
00:00:57kugel[Saint]: I'm not talking about skins
00:01:33 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)
00:01:33[Saint]I know, but as far as I'm aware the rules for draw order still apply.
00:01:48[Saint]"first called, first down, last called, last down"
00:01:53toehser1Not that I can see - it seems to be stable with the sysfont, until I (a) power off, (b) change theme, (c) change font, (probably other things)
00:02:05kugelthere is only one call involved
00:02:12kugelthe one to lcd_nine_segment_bmp
00:02:23kugelnot sure we're on the same page
00:02:27chrisjj"not that I can see. " You could diff the config file.
00:02:58chrisjjIt would be handy to know if b) was necessary.
00:03:35 Join Rower [0] (
00:04:15[Saint]Maybe it has changed somewhat since I looked at it but I was under the impression the 9patch stuff resized to as close as it could to a multiple of 3 and then drew the segments top-to-bottom left-to-right.
00:04:22toehser1Oh - I thought you meant behavior - yes, the WPS and CFG have lots of differences from default...
00:04:40[Saint]SO any image overlapping should happen in that order. Even though the image is "flattended" by the time it is actually displayed.
00:04:52chrisjjSorry to be unclear! Ah, then some pruning may be in order.
00:05:00kugeldid you look at the code of the function? it's pretty straight forward
00:05:19 Quit Rower (Client Quit)
00:05:33toehser1This is with a theme I created, which works flawlessly for most files - only fails for certain playlists.
00:05:33kugelmy issue isn't about overlapping at all
00:06:02kugelthe resulting image is larger than the specified width/height
00:06:06toehser1But I can certainly apply binary simplification to the theme & WPS to see if I can isolate 1 aspect - for example, I can try with a non AA font.
00:06:09[Saint]I thought you were asking "what happens when the segments need to overlap"
00:06:40 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
00:07:24chrisjjIIRC fail is only when there's long hence scrolling text. So perhaps disable scrolling to find out whether it is long or scrolling that's the cuase.
00:07:26[Saint]kugel might also be interested in this issue if you find a repeatable failure case.
00:08:16[Saint]Userfont suddenly unloading itself is indeed quite suspicious.
00:08:24toehser1Since the font is only set in the CFG, it is trivial for me to try with no other difference than the font... and right now I've done that and can't make it fail with 12-Nimbus
00:08:32toehser1Whoops !
00:08:54toehser1spoke too soon. Doesn't require Anti Alias to fail. Failed with 12-Nimbus too. Nice to rule out AA
00:09:34 Join Rower [0] (
00:10:06*[Saint] wonders what happens if you use so much of the targets available buffer that it needs to start unloading things for playback
00:10:13chrisjjHave you tried the default WPS theme?
00:11:34 Quit terrapin (Quit: Page closed)
00:11:57 Quit Rower (Client Quit)
00:12:08[Saint]I used to have a fairly reasonable understanding of the buffering system prior to buflib, but, no longer.
00:12:25toehser1I don't see it failing in cabbiev2 but that seems to use sysfont anyway so it might be hard to tell
00:12:32kugel[Saint]: non-multiple-of-3 images can be handled easily actually
00:12:38[Saint]And every time I look in that area it makes me want to break down in tears.
00:12:51[Saint]Its some fairly complex stuff.
00:13:18[Saint]toehser1: cabbiev2 _shouldn't_ be using sysfont
00:13:30chrisjjOK, then I suggest test cabbiev2 + 12-Nimbus.
00:13:39[Saint]I believe every cabbie loads a userfont.
00:14:39toehser1I think probably it _is_ theme related, whatever is triggering it. I do NOT see it failing in other themes.
00:15:09[Saint]I can't really say much more at this point than "I don't believe anything should be asking userfont to give itself up, especially not when it is currently in use".
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00:18:58chrisjjI'd like to see the .wps .
00:19:16toehser1The themes are ClipZip tomsway1 tomsway2 and tomsway3
00:19:48toehser1I can make all 3 fail... which might implicate something in the status, which they share.
00:20:46[Saint]It is certainly possible that the theme is coded less than perfectly. ~90% of user themes, in my experience, and nasty copy/paste kludges.
00:21:02[Saint]But even if the theme is broken. We should be failing gracefully.
00:21:10[Saint]And this is less than graceful.
00:21:26[Saint]s/and nasty/are nasty/
00:22:30[Saint]And even if the theme is coded *very* nastily, it shouldn;t be possible for it to cause the system to give up the currently loaded userfont.
00:24:43[Saint]Its almost at a point where we'd need to say "Got a bug? Using a custom theme? Well...too bad, don't".
00:26:34[Saint]Themes have been managing to cause inexplicable, technically impossible issues for a few years now. So much so it is very common practice for one of my first questions when a bug is raised is "Can you repeat it with the default theme?".
00:26:54chrisjjSo which fonr it required for those themes to fail?
00:27:32chrisjjCorrection : So which font is required for those themes to fail?
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00:30:03JdGordon[Saint]: we don't do any type of swapping, so there is no such thing as unloading things for playback
00:31:36[Saint]IS there always a set minimum amount for the playback buffer? Or is it possible to reduce it to such an extent it might fail for tracks with very large frames?
00:32:24JdGordonin theory it is possible
00:32:32JdGordonbut thats 28Mb or so of bitmaps to load
00:32:35JdGordongood luck!
00:33:29[Saint]That sounds like a challenge. :)
00:33:42JdGordonkugel: do you have a link to the 9seg patch?
00:34:33 Join Rower [0] (
00:34:59*[Saint] really should make an effort to properly understand the buffering system
00:35:30[Saint]At least once a week or so I get to looking at something that leads me there, and then I whimper and retreat with my tail between my legsa.
00:36:19[Saint]It pleases me somewhat that I am not the only one that gets mightily confused by it, though.
00:38:30 Quit Rower (Client Quit)
00:40:18chrisjjWhat's the quickest quick way to get the simulator to reload tagnavi_custom.config? I know the slow way :)
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00:41:07[Saint]Its a config file. Load it just like any other.
00:41:20[Saint]Navigate to it and "run" it. Same as any other .cfg
00:43:47chrisjjThanks, buts that's slower than my current slow way - restart.
00:44:00fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision fde92de, 243 builds, 32 clients.
00:45:40kugelJdGordon: what patch?
00:46:17 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...)
00:46:47JdGordonkugel: the one your playing with
00:47:03fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 184 seconds.
00:47:18kugelJdGordon: the 9seg function is in git
00:47:30JdGordonoh cool :) :p
00:47:39JdGordonso its got a bug?
00:47:43[Saint]Did you forget committing that? :)
00:47:48kugeli just modified bmp2rb to support alpha bmps and compiled a splash background image
00:47:58kugelJdGordon: not anymore :)
00:48:04kugeli just committed a fix
00:49:01kugelyou clearly haven't tested non 3nx3n images :)
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00:49:27JdGordonyou're supposed to use corectly sized images :)
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00:49:45kugelsupporting "odd" images is easy enough
00:50:01[Saint]I brought that up at the time and I was fairly sure you fixed it, but maybe it never made it in.
00:50:13kugelanyway, my main issue was when the resulting image (composed of many segments) wasnt a multiple of the segment size
00:50:27kugelthe last segment was drawn over the rect boundaries
00:51:13JdGordonare you buiding the middle part as you draw the text?
00:51:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:51:23JdGordoni.e not calcualting the neeeded size first?
00:52:45JdGordonbut i vagually remember something along the lines that it didnt matter if the middle section wasnt an exact multiple
00:52:58kugelsize is first calculated, then the 9segment is drawn, and at last the text
00:52:58JdGordonif it was bigger it would be overwritten by the edge peices
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00:57:00[Saint]that's part of what I was trying to say earlier regarding draw order before the image is flattened.
00:57:37 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:57:58[Saint]As long as the edge pieces are aligned within the viewport bounds, it shouldn;t matter at all if they are even multiples of 3 or not.
00:58:17[Saint]As draw order and overlapping should make that invisible.
00:58:57JdGordonyou might lose some pixels of the text thouhg - matbe
00:59:25[Saint]Right. In this case I wouldn;t be drawing the text with the image, personally.
00:59:36[Saint]I would overlap a text viewport with userfont overtop.
01:00:30[Saint]Then as long as that is called after the 9seg backdrop it won;t matter.
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01:32:51toehser1The theme has less than 1K of bitmaps. So it isn't a memory-use by bitmaps thing, period.
01:33:07toehser1All it uses bitmaps for is the status bar icons.
01:33:21toehser1It seems to fail with whatever font.
01:33:32toehser1I'm building git head now to try with that.
01:36:45chrisjjWhatever font including system font?
01:48:04toehser1Git head fails worse. Crash with "prefetch abort at 72 / FSR 0x82 / (domain 8, fault 2) / pc:726F4C20 sp:300) very soon with that theme.
01:50:09toehser1Doesn't fail with cabbiev2.
01:50:28toehser1I'll try to bisect things about the theme...
01:51:51[Saint]toehser1: If it isn;t too much hassle for you, could you please pastebin the theme elements; .cfg/.fms/.wps/.sbs/etc (preferably in a single pastebin, visibly separated) for me so I can rule out the theme doing anything obvious crazy?
01:52:34[Saint]I'm on mobile presently, so its not that easy for me to do so myself. But I have about an hour to kill sitting at the Dr.'s office waiting so I'll be happy to review the theme code.
01:53:38[Saint]The theme technically shouldn't be able to cause this behavior, regardless how sane or insane it is, but that hasn't stopped theme authors from being able to craft themes that break core functionality before.
01:53:46*[Saint] glares at lebellium :P
01:55:04[Saint]Lebellium manages to pretty reliably break USB with ta theme, and a while ago another user managed to completely break shuffle with a theme playlist viewer.
01:55:54[Saint](and neither of those two things are technically possible)
01:57:17[Saint]But the Rockbox codebase is vast, and what one piece of code suggests is impossible doesn't necessarily align with reality.
01:58:14[Saint](despite the continued best efforts of many very smart individuals to ensure this doesn't happen)
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02:22:38toehser1The themes are on the themesite.
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02:23:06toehser1What is "pastebin"?
02:23:51 Quit foolsh (Quit: foolsh)
02:23:57toehser1Huh. Didn't know about that. Sure...
02:26:59 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
02:32:44toehser1Ok, I pastebinned the cfg and the wps
02:33:04toehser1tomsway2.cfg and tomsway2.wps
02:34:02[Saint]...can I have a link?
02:34:32toehser1 and (is there an easier way to refer to them?)
02:34:47[Saint]That's fine. Thanks.
02:35:00toehser1I gave them names of "tomsway2.cfg" and "tomsway2.wps" but search doesn't seem to find them, maybe it lags.
02:36:28*[Saint] wonders what "FU" is supposed to be.
02:36:37[Saint]I can guess the intent. But it seems amusing to me.
02:36:46[Saint](%ar%?if(%bl, =, 100)<FU|%bl>)
02:37:31toehser1Yes... I thought of whether to use "OK" or something else... after all, I only wanted 2 digits of space for something that goes from 00-99...
02:37:38toehser1And it wouldn't be right to call 100 99.
02:38:01toehser1"FU" was both obvious, and amusing...
02:39:01toehser1I figured that a user would figure it out pretty quickly.
02:43:31[Saint]What is going on with the progressbar and the skin engine drawn overlapping rectangles?
02:43:44[Saint](it looks really screwed up in the screenshots)
02:44:02toehser1they're not overlapping - it is scale markers under the progress bar. And the VU meter is under that.
02:44:31toehser1If you see it work it makes sense - progress bar over vu meters, with some tick marks at 25% 50% 75% under the progress bar.
02:44:45toehser1none of that overlaps, though I think
02:45:34[Saint]They are overlapped by the progressbar. Which is drawn first, then overlapped by the rectangles, which will then make things weird because dynamicly updating content should always be the last thing drawn if you really must overlap them.
02:45:50toehser1Are they? Let me look at the view offsets
02:46:29[Saint]Oh. my mistake. Sorry.
02:46:46toehser1You see it - the pb is 2 high, the dr starts after 2.
02:46:55toehser1adjacent, not overlapped.
02:46:56[Saint]I suspect in this case it would be a lot more efficient to load a tiny bitmap to do this.
02:47:11toehser1I was _just_ thinking that.
02:47:16toehser1I'll do that.
02:47:28toehser1But - I doubt the problem is related to that stuff at all.
02:47:44[Saint]Sorry about the overlap confusing. I was reading a value wrong, multiple times in a row, apparently.
02:47:54toehser1I have life intruding my bandwidth for bisecting though.
02:48:23[Saint]And no. This theme isn't doing anything that raises any alarm bells.
02:48:30toehser1No apology necessary, trying to layout coordinates mentally, with multiple 2-pixel rectangles, is inherently likely for transposition...
02:49:14toehser1I'm rebuilding the simulator now from head. Last I checked, it works perfectly in sim, fails in clip zip only.
02:49:29toehser1But I need to copy the playlist from the zip to the sim, test the same way on both sides.
02:50:26[Saint]The simulator doesn't have /exactly/ the same behavior as the physical device in many aspects.
02:50:56[Saint]Unfortunately that means that some things simply just won't work the same way on device as they will in the sim.
02:51:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:51:42[Saint]It is more of a way for people to take Rockbox for a test drive than it is a complete HW-accurate emulation.
02:53:29[Saint]Yeah - in fact, I am rather happy to say that this is one of the sanest user-created theme I have ever had the pleasure of reviewing.
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02:54:12[Saint]Absolutely nothing about it is suspicious at first glance, nor upon a slightly deeper inspection.
02:55:40[Saint]The only issues I have with it are non-essential syntactical things that don't change operation at all.
02:56:00[Saint]1 - non-descriptive identifiers
02:56:21[Saint]2 - blank flase cases in true/false conditions
02:58:01[Saint]So for example instead of "%xl(S,status.bmp,0,0,15)" I would do "%xl(status_indicator,status.bmp,0,0,15)"
02:59:00[Saint]And then later call "%?XX<%xd(status_indicator, 1)|%xd(status_indicator, 2)|%xd(status_indicator, 3)|....>"
02:59:29toehser1For some reason I thought they were 1-char identifiers...
03:00:03[Saint]And for things like "%?XX<%xd(XX)|>" where you only care about the true case, changing it to ""%?XX<%xd(XX)>"
03:00:26toehser1easy things to fix though. After I find the bug, I'll do all that.
03:00:27[Saint]And, they used to be this way, up until the massive skin engine reshuffle from 2 years or so ago.
03:00:48[Saint]But it imposed an arbitrary limit, and is hard to read.
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03:01:28[Saint]It means you could only call identifiers from Aa to AZ.
03:01:40[Saint]Whereas now it is theoretically infinite.
03:02:55[Saint]And it also has the bonus, if the idents are descriptive, of making it much easier to understand at a glance what a particular function is doing. Even if you have only a very basic understanding of the skin engine syntax.
03:03:48[Saint]But as I said, neither of those two "issues" would cause the behavior you're experiencing, nor would it change functionality at all. It is purely syntactical and would just be for the benefit of those who may look at the code of your theme.
03:11:16[Saint]toehser1: One last issue.
03:11:28[Saint]Well..."issue". The clock is terribly inefficient.
03:11:56[Saint]It makes much more sense to draw it in a single viewport and use the loaded font to draw the ":"
03:12:16[Saint]Since that will be essentially free, as that glyph will almost certainly already be loaded.
03:12:56toehser1The purpose is to squish the : into many fewer horizontal pixels than the font uses. But I may just get rid of the clock.
03:13:21toehser1I'm not convinced that anyone uses their ClipZip instead of their watch or their cell phone for the wall clock time...
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03:13:55[Saint]You could always alternate between the time and battery/volume/play status
03:13:56toehser1I suppose, there, also, I could load a bitmap for the narrow colon image, instead of the"dr" commands.
03:14:06*[Saint] nods
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03:14:30toehser1How does one measure the inefficiency? Are there metrics that would show % of time used on different theme elements?
03:14:33[Saint]But it would be ideal to just draw it with the font engine if it is at all possible.
03:14:39[Saint]Since its basically free.
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03:15:09toehser1I've come close to creating my own font for just such reasons - I only have 96 horizontal pixels, so 4 or 5 here and there really adds up.
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03:15:21[Saint]This is true.
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03:16:27toehser1I get this in the sim now: *** stack smashing detected *** ... so maybe I do have a problem reproduced there (albeit with some difference in failure mode)
03:16:45[Saint]As far as measuring inefficiency goes, I just use my eye and experience. CPU time isn't really the issue, its more the "issue" of wasting playback buffer.
03:17:08[Saint]How much RAM a particular skin is using with al loaded elements is visible via the debug screen.
03:17:23toehser1Or, maybe I just needed to do a make clean, I'll try that before I worry.
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03:19:09[Saint]In this case I'm sure it isn't /too/ much of an issue. But personally I like to try to reuse things where I can or try to get them for free. Ideally the theme should have the smallest footprint possible as more playback buffer directly equates to a longer runtime.
03:20:37[Saint]But in this instance we're probably only talking about a few kB, and its a flash target as well, so disk access isn't nearly as expensive.
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04:36:40JdGordonPurlingNayuki: ping?
04:51:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:03:21toehser1The (good?) news is, with the tips of git, it hasn't done the font loss thing. (It just crashes.)
05:05:25toehser1If I take off the very last line of the WPS, it seems not to be crashing...
05:05:28toehser1%s%ac%?Ia<%Ia >%?It<%It >%?Id<%Id >%?Fn<%Fn |no next file >%?Fp<%Fp>
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05:06:18toehser1now, here is a question: the viewport is from 0 for 96, and from 85 for 11 - all fine.
05:07:06toehser1The font, though, is more than an 11 point font - it is getting cut off at the bottom.
05:07:26toehser1Is it possible that something is letting it corrupt memory past the edge of the viewport?
05:07:58[Saint]It doesn't matter in the slightest if portions of content are out of bounds.
05:08:19toehser1Acckh, it just crashed without that line, anyway... but it went for a long time without crashing, that time.
05:09:08[Saint]Yeah, that line isn't exactly pretty (especially as it is centered, on a 96px screen...but, it is syntactically valid.
05:10:40toehser1When I take out that one and also the # Miscellaneous
05:10:40toehser1%s%iy %fc %fb %fv %ff %fp
05:10:40DBUGEnqueued KICK toehser1
05:10:40toehser1it is running for a long time - if not causing the problem they are at least compounding it.
05:12:10[Saint]It certainly shouldn't be.
05:12:21toehser1Of course, as with any intermittant failure, I may just be seeing patterns where there are none.
05:12:28[Saint]I have some metadata in some tracks that is a LOT longer than that field combined.
05:13:05toehser1I'm running out of evening time, I'll go for the dump address approach tomorrow from the crash message and the cores from when the sim crashed.
05:13:17CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
05:13:17*[Saint] nods
05:13:18toehser1So far I've been lazy, looking to bisect the theme and get lucky.
05:13:45[Saint]Well, even if the theme was "broken", the error still lies with the core.
05:13:53[Saint]So it would be avoiding an issue at best.
05:15:30toehser1I'm not getting it to crash with those 2 lines commented. I'll try putting the bottom one back.
05:17:47toehser1right away, crash.
05:18:32[Saint]Could you disable scrolling and check that, please?
05:18:56toehser1Just by taking out the %s tags?
05:18:56[Saint](remove %s from viewports(s) in question)
05:19:00*[Saint] nods
05:19:27toehser1I think I tried that and still got it to fail. I'll take out all the %s in the theme... hang on.
05:21:53PurlingNayukiJdGordon: Sorry again I was at classes
05:22:25JdGordonPurlingNayuki: hey, what time zone are you in? i was heading to work already when you replied :p
05:22:57toehser1Crashes right away even without any %s tags.
05:22:57PurlingNayukiHere in GMT+8 Hongkong timezone
05:22:57JdGordoni really want to finish off your patch and get it in :)
05:23:47PurlingNayukiI'd like to so I have already got all my spare time spent on it.
05:24:34JdGordonwhats the default value it gets now?
05:24:42JdGordonam i right that it gets the volume default value?
05:24:46JdGordonso -25?
05:25:09toehser1well... OK, ok, I'll try to look at the real problem. I'm lazy about that for many reasons - not the least of which, my job has been rotting by brain with Java for a while, I'll have to dredge myself back into C after avoiding any non-trivial real work for long enough to have grinding of my mental gears... But for now, in TZ UTC-5, I'm setting it aside for a bit.
05:25:19PurlingNayukiI've pushed an acceptable one and reworking it with CUSTOM_SETTING
05:26:39PurlingNayukiYes sorry, it was first default to the maximum volume but it's not now
05:27:04JdGordonah great
05:27:07JdGordonI'll have a look
05:27:53PurlingNayukiI'm a little busy with my exams but will finish it within days
05:28:23JdGordon#16 is using the SOUND_SETTING still?
05:28:29JdGordonyou should get back to exams then! :)
05:28:32PurlingNayukiIf everything is working as is expected
05:28:41PurlingNayukiYes it is
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05:30:38PurlingNayukiThere are examples I can follow so I don't think it will be much too diffcult
05:30:58JdGordonask if you get stuck :)
05:31:18PurlingNayukiThanks, you really help a lot
05:31:30JdGordonI'm gmt+11 so pretty close
05:31:40JdGordonmelbourne, .au
05:32:29PurlingNayukiI know there for I have classmates studying abroad there
05:34:04JdGordonyou should also pop into #rockbox-community
05:34:50PurlingNayukiYeah I got into it just now
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08:25:48wodzDo we reclaim dram memory used for iram sections in main binary? I mean we copy the stuff to iram and then we could in theory reclaim are where we copied from. It will be like a few kB I think but still
08:26:15wodzs/are where/area where/
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08:40:08PurlingNayukiJdGordon: Would it be convenient for you to explain how menus are shown it Rockbox?
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08:41:40JdGordonPurlingNayuki: sure! menu.c :)
08:42:14PurlingNayukiWill read it carefully;-)
08:42:30JdGordondo you have any particualr questions? its very MAGIC
08:44:41PurlingNayukiYes and no
08:45:14PurlingNayukiI've read apps/menus/
08:45:53PurlingNayukiBut didn't find EQ settings in sound_menu.c
08:46:38JdGordonthey are in eq_menu.c
08:46:41JdGordondinner time :)
08:47:13PurlingNayukiThere is eq_menu.c but actually it's displayed in sound menu so I'm a little confused about how EQ menus are shown.
08:47:51wodzPurlingNayuki: hey, Is it you who have MIPS based onda handy?
08:49:14PurlingNayukiwodz: Yes I had but I just don't remember where I put it
08:50:15PurlingNayukiThe only thing I cn confirm is that It's lying in my room
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09:26:46[Saint]Do we have any idea who runs /r/rockbox ?
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09:31:59[Saint]I find it interesting that for whatever reason people wind up there instead of the forum.
09:32:59wodzwho cares :-)
09:37:00wodzWe do the magic for reclaiming space taken by .init section on some target (#HAVE_INIT_ATTR) so this should be fairly simple to reclaim iram part as well
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09:40:45JdGordonPurlingNayuki: back
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09:44:37PurlingNayukiand classes finished
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10:46:08copperpamaury (logs): problems with recent build of Rockbox for the Fuze+:
10:46:33copperdunno if it's related to the recent conversation(s) here
10:47:11copperthis, too:
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10:55:34wodzThere was usb buffer handling fix recently. It would be nice to know the exact version exhibiting odd behavior
11:05:14copperI can reproduce it in the sim
11:06:53wodzare you able to bisect?
11:07:18copperwodz: can you give me a range of revisions?
11:07:47wodzwhat is broken in this image? I can't see at first glance
11:08:27coppertext is absent, except for the durations
11:08:34wodzah right
11:08:51copperthat's how it's supposed to look
11:09:12copper(don't mind the colors)
11:09:51gevaertscopper: I'd just test 3.13 and if that works, start from there
11:10:17gevaertsThe nice thing about bisecting is that hugely overestimating the range you need only adds very few extra steps
11:10:37copperer, that's super old
11:11:32copperI can bisect starting from a15a15b which I know to be working perfectly
11:11:48wodzI would check 204668d first. Thats just before kugel's lcd rework but after usb buflib related changes
11:12:42copperthat's even more recent
11:13:04coppergit bisect start 204668d?
11:13:32wodzI always have to refer to UsingGit :-)
11:13:57copperI'm there
11:14:07copperbut it doesn't say how to specify a starting point for bisecting
11:14:20gevaertsgit bisect good <something>
11:14:26copperah, ok
11:14:27gevaertsgit bisect bad <something else>
11:14:36copperalright, doing it
11:14:42gevaertsAnd then just git bisect good/bad after every test
11:15:40gevaertsAnd possibly git bisect skip if you can't do the test (e.g. because you hit an unrelated bug first)
11:29:26copper91ef65306bf4e459f430d6dc44e5923d6b9f8399 is the first bad commit
11:29:32copperskin_engine: Adapt put_line().
11:30:05copper"This allows for code unification and removal of a workaround (STYLE_XY_PIXELS)."
11:30:54gevaertsOK, so probably the sort of not-entirely-unexpected fallout for the sort of large rework kugel has been doing
11:33:21coppersame deal with the iPod Classic
11:33:29copperwhich makes sense, I guess
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12:14:21kugelcopper: works for me in the fuze+ sim
12:17:59copperwith what theme?
12:20:08kugelI can see the text
12:20:15kugelhowever, looking again, it's not colored
12:22:06coppertext is visible but not colored with the "official" Googley theme
12:22:29coppertext is invisible with the stripped down variant available at
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12:23:42copperthe A14 / A19 / B14 / B19 variants have fixed text size and with conditionals removed
12:24:52copperI have to say, making a Rockbox theme that works (working around theme bugs) is quite difficult
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12:26:14copperthemes are very "fragile", in the sense that, so much as adding a new line can break them
12:26:41copperor removing a new line character
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12:51:02kugelcopper: that one doesnt even load here
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12:53:07copperkugel: what do you mean, "doesn't load"?
12:53:17copperreboot the sim
12:54:06kugeldid that
12:54:17kugelI get no backdrop and fallback wps
12:54:44kugel%Vx lines should be on their own
12:55:42coppera new line causes bugs
12:55:49kugelwhat bugs?
12:56:12kugelplease report bugs to the tracker
12:56:27copperdisplay bugs, can't remember which ones exactly, but stuff like gray bars across artwork
12:56:27kugelhowever I'm not aware of any issues that require stuff to be on the same line as %Vx
12:57:38kugeltext (inline or via tags) is drawn line-by-line after the %Vx tags, the first line of text should also be the first line after %Vx in the .wps
12:57:52kugelI don't even know where text is supposed to land if it's on the same line as %Vx
12:58:16copperbelieve me, I have spent many hours working around many bugs
12:58:19kugelI'm not saying this causes your problems but it's certainly not right (not intended like this anyway)
12:58:27copperanyway, I linked to the iPod Classic theme by mistake
12:58:36kugelcopper: please report these bugs
13:01:19kugelwe can't fix these bugs if you don't tell us and hide the workarounds
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13:01:41kugelyou see, cabbiev2 is doing fine without stuff on the same line as %Vx
13:02:26copperdoesn't mean that cabbie is a "good" theme and all the other themes are bad
13:02:54copperit's just the theme that you guys use, so I assume you guys fix bugs that you encounter with it, before even committing your changes
13:03:12kugelcopper: aha, if I put the track title line after %V then it shows up
13:04:23copperFS #12892
13:04:24fs-bluebot backdrop doesn't load when selecting a new theme that was just copied via USB (bugs, unconfirmed)
13:04:34copperFS #12891
13:04:34fs-bluebot %?if() evaluates enumeration indexes and arbitrary numbers to (number + 1) (bugs, unconfirmed)
13:04:40copperFS #12884
13:04:40fs-bluebot Blinking metadata text on the iPod Video / Classic (bugs, unconfirmed)
13:04:53copperno-one ever looked into those
13:04:55kugelthe color doesnt work still but the text shows up
13:05:13copperthose are all mine
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13:05:48kugelcopper: okay, thanks for these reports
13:07:05copperin fact I have reported 6 bugs, all of which are still open
13:07:26copperall "unconfirmed"
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13:07:43copperthat's not very motivating, to put it mildly
13:08:25pixelmaI've seen different results depending on the placement of code snippets in the .wps file too, e.g. one with a drawn progressbar that looked partially "blanked" as if one empty line was dran overtop. Reordering the viewports in the code helped, an no there was no overlapping in the viewports I even tried with lots of empty space between viewports
13:08:42coppersame ^^
13:08:49copperabout the empty space
13:11:04copperthe theme thing is a lingering problem
13:11:40copperand it is my understanding that something, somewhere, is completely FUBAR, and no-one knows what it is, or how to fix it
13:12:31copperbeyond the fact that the bugs I have already reported and have never been confirmed, I'm not sure that reporting every single theme bug would help
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13:14:02copperall I know is, I can't write proper theme markup without running into some glitch
13:14:42kugelcopper: I located the bug for the text colors, but that the text lines are missing is your theme bug I'm afraid
13:14:50coppermy themes are working as they are now, but if I change anything, something breaks
13:16:20copperkugel: if you're referring to the newline thing after a viewport, I get a bug either way, with different builds
13:16:26pixelmaI haven't reported it yet (besides here) because I always want to give and find out more details (reliable recipe to replicate, some safe workarounds, some working revisions) but this one is hard - maybe even impossible - to track down
13:18:43kugelcopper: it works for me with the text on the next line (not only in this theme)
13:18:59kugelI would really like to know what bug you hit there beause I haven't seen it
13:20:33copperI talked about it here while I was working on the theme
13:20:57copperand I can't identify bugs clearly if they change from build to build
13:20:59kugelyou should remove these workarounds, it works better without them
13:21:16kugelperhaps the bug you hit was only temporary
13:21:17copperwhat does that mean, "it works better without them"?
13:21:20copperwith what build?
13:21:28copperthere's a reason I used those workarounds
13:21:43kugelthe reason doesnt seem to exist anymore
13:21:56copperor it's just hidden
13:22:20copperi.e. the bug doesn't show right now with this particular setup
13:22:25kugelthe text shows up without this workaround, and it's certainly not the way we intended it to be
13:22:27copperwith this particular build
13:22:54coppermy themes have been working fine for months
13:23:05kugelI would suggest you remove the workaround and ping me if you hit the bug again that requires this
13:23:26kugelbut seeing no text shows up with the workaround in place I can't see how it fixes anything
13:24:25copperI used the workaround to avoid a bug, and now you're asking me to remove the work around, to avoid another bug?
13:24:39kugelno, not to avoid another bug
13:24:49kugelit's not a bug if your workaround doesnt work
13:25:07copperwhat is illegal about placing code on the same line as the viewport definition?
13:25:46kugelthe text is placed line by line, and the first line starts the line after the %Vx tag
13:25:47pixelmakugel: what's "Vx" in your example?
13:25:59kugelany viewport related tag
13:27:25kugelcopper: in fact, I believe only %Vf, %Vb and %Vg are legal on the same line
13:27:43pixelmaI'd expect %Vf and %Vg (the colour tags) to be possible placing right after %V... aha
13:28:54copperkugel: if a new line character is required, please update the manual
13:29:23kugelcopper: we're not going to change the code to make a workaround for an semi-related bug work again. Instead, we want to fix the original bug such that the workaround is not required
13:29:25copperalso, am I supposed to force all my users to update to the latest dev build, after making those changes?
13:30:00kugeli don't think so
13:30:21copperwell it won't work with some older builds
13:30:29copperalso, apparently the theme thing isn't the only new bug
13:30:53copper"I updated mine to a current dev build and it seems something is broken. I had a reliable USB connection on the Fuze+ before and it crashes every time now unless everything is on the defaults. Anything change from one of the default Rockboxthemes causes a crash when I try to connect through USB."
13:30:59kugelCustomWPS says "and lines after a viewport declaration are drawn within that viewport". although it's not explicit it suggests that content comes into the lines after the declaration
13:31:11copper"I'm also seeing a few other things like themes not rendering the way they did before. They don't seem to be completely broken but some elements don't always load. Album art is also loading slower than what it once did."
13:31:54copperkugel: I don't know where I'm supposed to stand
13:32:09copperI reported bugs, never got any attention
13:32:21copperI worked around those bugs, and now I'm supposed to revert my changes
13:32:41coppernot knowing what build will display my themes properly
13:32:41kugelfwiw, the fuze+ has no stable release so we kind of expect you to update to the current build
13:34:32copperand if I do revert those changes, and if I run into bugs again, and if I report them again, nothing will happen
13:34:43copper"use the default theme"
13:34:49copper"all other themes are not supported"
13:35:01kugeldid anyone say that?
13:35:13kugelother themes are of course supported
13:37:02copperthen someone please first address my 5 months old bug reports
13:37:37copperI'm not going to contribute more time and effort just to be ignored
13:40:11copperespecially not knowing if those efforts are justified, and if they will remain pertinent in the foreseable future
13:41:13kugelI'll try to. I'm sorry that you feel put off, I understand that
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13:50:53copperkugel: also, if something is illegal in theme code, then it should be made clear in the documentation, and it should also be reported in the UI somehow
13:51:11copperan error message, or at least the theme should fail to load altogether
13:51:53copperwithout that, it's unclear what is a theme markup error and what is a Rockbox bug
13:52:14kugelthe theme engine is very complex, it's not always easy to tell the root cause of a failure, even within the code
13:52:36copperI understand it's not an easy fix
13:52:42kugeland the language is ad-hoc and not at all specified
13:53:02copperbut it needs to be addressed, if we want to stop wasting our time on both sides
13:53:04chrisjj"if something is illegal in theme code, then it should be made clear in the documentation" I think that's unworkable in practice. A clear spec defines what is legal, and anything else is illegal.
13:53:30copperchrisjj: that's a better way to put it, I agree
13:53:59coppersomething like: "a viewport declaration must be on its own line"
13:54:15chrisjjHowever if there is an illegal exception to a what's stated as legal, then I agree that should be stated as such - provided it is not possible to restate the legal to accomodate directly.
13:54:24copperbecause that didn't work before, that works now, I have no idea what is correct
13:54:38copperwhat if both problems are actual bugs?
13:55:20copperif there is a specific reason why new lines in theme markup are important, then it needs to be stated clearly
13:55:21chrisjjSympathies. IME this looks like the kind of can of worms which cannot be solved except by going back to basics.
13:55:37copperand the new line thing is just one example
13:56:18chrisjj"Actual bugs?" Well, it depends on what you mean by a bug. There are differing understandings of the word around here.
13:56:18copperwriting my Googley themes was a real pain
13:56:50copperand I'm not doing that again until I have precise answers
13:57:18chrisjjIf "rockbox bug" means "not performing as programmer intended", then without an accurate statement of intent, it is impossible to identify anything as a bug.
13:57:23toehser1Weird. When I take out those 2 lines, it doesn't crash. When I put in %Ia on the last line, it doesn't crash. When I put %Ia %Ia %Ia %Ia on the last line, it does crash.
13:59:02copperkugel: surely some markup sanitization (is that a word?) can be done
13:59:34chrisjjcopper: It seesm your reported bugs are actuall bugs in the sense of 'behaviour not according with specification.' In which case perhaps the reports need to record both the behaviour and the specification, and precisely identify the difference.
13:59:38copperlike, if your code expects a new line, it shouldn't be too hard to test for it and complain if the markup doesn't meet your expectations
13:59:39kugelyes, some is done, but not nearly enough
14:00:34coppermy problem here is that I don't know for sure what is correct in my markup, and what isn't, and apparently we can't seem to agree on what is a bug
14:00:52copperis the old behavior a bug? Is the new behavior a bug? Are they both bugs?
14:00:53toehser1My actual bug crashes rockbox with a dump, it isn't just behavior :)
14:01:24toehser1With the tip of git, I don't get the font-change, it just crashes, and it crashes both the simulator and the real player.
14:03:22kugeltoehser1: can you report this to flyspray?
14:03:25toehser1The playlist that crashes with tomsway2.cfg/wps and works with other themes, has long-ish names/titles and characters that aren't in USASCII, so it could be related to the length of fields or the internationalized stuff.
14:03:29toehser1Yes, I'll get to that...
14:03:40toehser1It is more interesting to investigate...
14:03:46toehser1I guess I should go ahead and do that.
14:03:55kugelfeel free to investigate
14:04:13kugelthe more you find the easier we can locate and fix the bug
14:06:50kugeltoehser1: if i see this right lines can be 1024 bytes long. for UTF-8 strings this can be a lot less than 1024 characters
14:06:58kugeldo you hit that limit by chance?
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14:13:20toehser1I doubt I'm hitting that.
14:13:44toehser1But, probably this is UTF-8.
14:13:52toehser112928 is the FlySpray number I created.
14:13:55JdGordonPurlingNayuki: did you figure it out?
14:14:00toehser1I mean 12929.
14:15:33kugeltoehser1: can you compile from source?
14:17:02PurlingNayukiI haven't got time to write but I think I have a clear direction to the goal
14:21:58chrisjj"is the old behavior a bug? Is the new behavior a bug?" Or did the specification change, and neither is a bug.
14:23:25chrisjjThis is one reason why it would be a good to have the specification release-managed along with the code. E.g. move the specification from the wiki to the manual.
14:24:23copper[Saint] wanted to do that a while ago
14:24:52kugeltoehser1: it is difficult to reproduce the bug, can you at least provide an example song title
14:25:14kugelor better yet, a file
14:25:35chrisjjMore power to you, Saint.
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14:29:15chrisjjHmm... now I see a .wps spec is in both the wiki and the latest fuse+ manual.
14:29:42chrisjjI wonder if they accord. And I wonder how best to check :)
14:30:42chrisjjcopper: Which spec are you using?
14:30:51pamauryiirc the manual spec was the actual one, if there ever was something close to a specification
14:33:07chrisjjMay I ask what determines for you which is the "actual" one?
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14:36:03toehser1yes with source from git head it crashes
14:36:19toehser1with 3.13 it does the weird font-changes-randomly-to-sysfont, then crashes later
14:36:46toehser1I'll upload a file that crashes it, yes.
14:37:45toehser1Work and life will be interfering with my focus on this, so it may be hours.
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14:39:53toehser1and I'll figure out what the hex / core means from the build I did
14:39:55copperchrisjj: at the time, I used the wiki
14:40:04copperand nothing indicated that I shouldn't use the wiki
14:40:26copperoh, and that irritating wiki redirection bug still isn't fixed
14:40:42copperhow hard is it to remove the <base> tag in the HTML code
14:41:05kugelsomeone needs to do it
14:41:07kugelping Zagor
14:41:16kugelI reported it a while back too
14:43:04copperdate reported: 2013-07-14
14:43:12copperthat was me, too
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14:45:43kugelonly few of us have the powers to change the wiki internals
14:48:39kugelBagder, Zagor and I think LinusN
14:49:06kugelour grand elders :)
14:49:27copperpamaury: I think you can mark FS #12833 as fixed
14:49:28fs-bluebot Don't turn on the display when the keypad is locked (bugs, unconfirmed)
14:49:50chrisjjcupper: "nothing indicated that I shouldn't use the wiki" Understood. And I see you amended the wiki version.
14:50:05copperto warn against the %if bug
14:50:15pamaurycopper: indeed, thanks
14:50:20chrisjjThe wiki and manual versions now do not accord, descriptively. Whether they accord normatively, I cannot say.
14:51:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:51:59copperthere was a debate on whether documentation about theme markup should be removed entirely from the wiki, thus disabling users from contributing to it
14:52:19chrisjjWhere, please?
14:53:01copperin here
14:53:23copperalso, I see that the manual doesn't say anything about the %if bug ;-(
14:54:22coppereven though I reported it and asked for a mention of it in the manual
14:55:21pixelmaIMO we shouldn't document bugs in the manual, no-one will remember to remove the note once the bug is fixed
14:56:07copperbetter not fix it and let theme makers struggle with it on their own :-/
14:56:18pixelmano, better fix it
14:56:37copperI reported it 5 months ago like the rest
14:57:26copperFS #12891
14:57:27fs-bluebot %?if() evaluates enumeration indexes and arbitrary numbers to (number + 1) (bugs, unconfirmed)
14:57:33pixelmafor what it's worth, I can at least confirm this one - although I don
14:57:38coppernot even one comment
14:57:52copperalso "unconfirmed"
14:57:53pixelma't think a developer usually looks at that field
14:57:55chrisjjcopper: Thanks - debate found at"WHY+would+it+be+an+issue+if+I+nuke+CustomWPS"
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15:01:16chrisjjpixelma "we shouldn't document bugs in the manual" The things is that the spec needs supposed to describe behaviour, and avoiding documenting code flaws is allowing bugs in the docs.
15:01:59chrisjjI agree "better fix it", but meanwhile better document it!
15:09:08chrisjjcopper: glad to see objection to the "fucking push to nuke CustomWPS in favor of the manual". However, that does leave open the question of how to solve what's described as the current clusterfuck.
15:12:34copperpeople need to care
15:12:37copperthey currently don't
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15:18:22copperchrisjj: eh, apparently I came across the manual problem and the %if problem around the same time
15:18:42copperwell, I came across a whole bunch of problem while I was making my Googley themes
15:18:56coppertook me like 2 weeks of full time work
15:19:08copperjust to get around bugs
15:22:00copperwhere did the FM Radio go
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15:22:45copperoh for crying out loud, not again
15:24:11copperpamaury: can't find the FM radio on the Fuze+ again, on either a15a15b or fde92de
15:26:19pamauryup to my knowledge, no one has touch the radio code for ages
15:26:47copperyou fixed it the last time
15:27:03coppersomething about waiting for the radio chip to wake up or whatever
15:27:06pamaurythat was in early days of the port
15:27:25pamauryand with HEAD ?
15:28:17copperfde92de is HEAD
15:28:38chrisjjcopper: Some people don't care, Some do. :)
15:28:39copperit doesn't even show in the sim
15:29:32chrisjjMAINTANERS was a good move to declare who cares about what.
15:29:36pamaurydoes the sim have radio ?
15:29:51copperpamaury: yes, that's how I was able to take screenshots of it
15:30:01copperhow else would you develop an FMS
15:30:21pamauryno idea, I stay as far as I can from the apps/ code
15:30:51pamaurycan you bisect to find when it broke in the sim ?
15:31:11pamauryI am sorry, I really have 0 free time until this week-end, too much work
15:31:30copperfirst things first
15:31:57copperkugel: should I file a bug report for the theme issue, and will someone actually look into it?
15:32:16kugelyes please
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15:33:07kugelI can't make a promise about the latter (though I plan to look into it) but knowing about the bugs is a prerequisite for fixing
15:33:18chrisjjcopper: Re , I wonder if this issue really is confined to if().
15:33:35pamaurythe last radio change was 446f352 (19 nov), but it was not supposed to changed anything, just refactor
15:35:28copperyou know what
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15:36:27copperI'm just going to stop bothering until the most straightforward bugs are fixed and my old bug reports get any kind of acknowledgment or feedback
15:36:53copperbecause until then, it just seems like a waste of time
15:38:35copper"confirming" the bugs would be a start
15:38:51copperwhy should I bother if my bug reports never even get confirmed
15:39:26coppera simple comment would do
15:39:41copper"we are aware of this bug, but fixing it won't be easy"
15:39:51copperor whatever
15:39:55kugelcopper: see, we're only 3-4 active devs in this project
15:40:08kugeland none of them is particularly interested in the skin engine
15:40:26kugelit's all volunteer effort, we can't force anyone to look into theme related issues
15:40:42copperI'm a volunteer too
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15:41:16copperexcept I'm not particularly welcome here
15:41:33foolshcopper: pamaury: I just built HEAD for fuze+ radio is there for me, building the sim now Iet you know in a minute
15:42:13kugelcopper: no, you are welcome. your support for the project thorugh bug reports is important for us (even if it might not be that obvious to you)
15:42:39copperI'm not
15:42:46copperI've been told, explicitely
15:43:38foolshcopper: pamaury: Radio is present in the sim build from HEAD for me atleast.
15:44:19chrisjjcopper: I think you don't need to take it personally. AFAICS you're no less welcome that anyone else who reports serious bugs.
15:44:42pamauryhum, on device it could depend on the harware or be timing related but in the sim it is deterministic, so hopefully the issue was just temporary, I'll check with HEAD on device later
15:45:09copperchrisjj: I've been insulted and warned, several times
15:45:14copperI can only take it personally
15:45:29copperI decided to stay here and help those who cared, but I'm getting tired
15:45:47chrisjjcopper: I too have been insulted and warned. So you don't need to think it is only you.
15:46:03copperfoolsh: I just built HEAD and there is no FM radio menu item
15:46:56copperI'm not dreaming
15:47:15foolshThat's so odd
15:47:30copperproof that it's HEAD
15:47:45funmani dont remember ever seeing FM in the sim
15:47:54kugelcopper: when, by whom?
15:48:02chrisjjcopper: I added my preferred solution to . Tried and tested by many developers over the decades :)
15:48:43foolshfunman: It's there for me I'm looking right at it on the sim, weird
15:49:25copperfunman: it's been there for a long time
15:49:30copperin the iPod Video sim too
15:49:56kugelfunman: the sim has a radiom obivously without signal
15:50:05copperupdating the iPod Video sim now
15:50:22pamauryI have the radio in the fuze+ sim here (quite recent build, one week ago)
15:50:42kugelcopper: I ask again, when, and by whom, have you been told that?
15:50:49funmani can't be trusted on that one ^_^
15:50:55copperkugel: scorche
15:51:17kugelthat surprises me
15:51:24copperthe FM radio is still there on the iPod Video sim
15:51:55copperok it's a config file issue
15:52:17copperah ffs
15:52:56coppermy Fuze+ config had a "root menu order:" entry from an iPod Classic, which doesn't include the FM radio
15:53:16coppermy bad
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15:54:39copperthat's nasty
15:55:03pixelmaproof of why configurable menus can be bad!? ;)
15:55:33chrisjjEasy mistake ... given the option is named "root menu order" rather than "root menu".
15:56:18chrisjjMore like Proof of why something called "order" should affect only the order.
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16:09:18chrisjjkugel: OOI, who are the "only 3-4 active devs in this project" apart from yourself and pamaury?
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16:16:46wodzchrisjj: It easy enough to check yourself - main page - code changes frame - All commits since last four weeks (or last release)
16:18:13chrisjjI've seen that thanks.
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16:38:56copperkugel: FS #12884 is one of the bugs that made me put everything on a single line
16:38:58fs-bluebot Blinking metadata text on the iPod Video / Classic (bugs, unconfirmed)
16:39:30copper"If the colors match those defined in the cfg file, or the user set ones, the bug doesn't occur (no blinking)."
16:39:48copperthat kind of bug is so pervasive and so weird that it makes little sense reporting them all
16:40:17copperthe sum of it just means that the whole thing is fucked up and needs a large overhaul, which isn't going to happen
16:41:02copperbecause few people are competent or motivated or available to fix it, and even those have no idea on how to fix it
16:41:52copperso, in my opinion, it's a waste of time to ask users to file further bug reports for a core problem that's been there for a _long_ time and for which there is no hope
16:41:59toehser1Here's something interesting - when I load the problem theme in the simulator - areas of the image of the player (outside the screen) are overwritten with black.
16:42:16coppertoehser1: yup I see that too with HEAD
16:42:40toehser1Ah - yes I saw it with cabbiev2 also... can't be a good thing, but maybe unrelated.
16:43:05copperlike I said, cabbie is no reference of a "good" theme
16:43:19copperit's just what everyone uses and never gets updated
16:43:35chrisjjWhich theme is a reference?
16:44:03chrisjjE.g. which one might use for spec validation?
16:44:33chrisjjSurely someone must have created theme(s) that cover the spec features.
16:44:37copperyou can't validate a spec with a faulty implementation that produces a ton of really weird bugs
16:45:01chrisjjYou can't claim they are bugs until the spec is validated :)
16:45:06kugelthere is no spec
16:45:14 Quit chrisjj (Quit: Page closed)
16:45:24kugelwell, not one that I would personally consider a proper spec
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16:46:29chrisjjkugel: There is "Custom WPS Display - File Format Specifications"
16:46:43copperchrisjj: that's the wiki, which is not officially sanctionned
16:46:46kugelhence my correction
16:46:56copperthere's the manual, but that is still incomplete
16:47:06chrisjj"not officially sanctionned" Um, is anything?
16:47:17copperthe manual is
16:47:28coppercabbiev2 is
16:48:29chrisjjI think if there was an official sanction for the manual, it wouldn't be allowed out with false info and "tbd".
16:51:12chrisjjIf there is no proper spec, it would be at least useful to get a consensus on which is the improper spec. Perhaps that can be ur, properised.
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16:51:40copperif there is no proper spec, all specs are improper
16:51:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:52:09chrisjjOK, which spec is least improper?
16:52:45copperIMO? The Wiki, because I was able to document the bugs that I encountered.
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16:53:09copperI also added a clarification or two
16:53:11chrisjj(Shame the two main specs are in formats that cannot be easily diffed.)
16:53:25copperbut it doesn't matter
16:53:33copperthere are too many bugs
16:53:47copperyou can write perfect markup, you'll still run into problems at some point
16:53:59chrisjjIt matters to me. And I think it matters to anyone else seeking to employ .WPS power.
16:54:02copperproblems with some builds and not others
16:54:55chrisjjPerfect markup is a good place to start.
16:55:32chrisjj... even if it can be perfect only on the current release.
16:56:16copperperfect markup would be useful if it was considered as such by Rockbox developers
16:56:20chrisjjIt may be necessary to write off past builds for the sake of future.
16:56:22copperbut they won't consider third party themes
16:56:28copperthe answer is always "use cabbiev2"
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16:56:58chrisjjI don't see that. The existence of themesite shows otherwise.
16:57:00copperwhich makes sense because they can't check every single theme
16:57:22chrisjjThat does not make sense.
16:57:34chrisjjQA need not test every theme.
16:57:40copperbut it leads to "cabbiev2 works for me" and thus theme bugs are largely ignored
16:57:48chrisjjIt needs test only a validation set.
16:58:02coppera validation set that does not exist
16:58:17chrisjj"cabbiev2 works for me" is what should be ignored.
16:58:30chrisjjA validation set that could exist.
16:58:43copperyou're welcome to write one
16:59:02copperI shouldn't have said that
16:59:06chrisjjIt needs to be part of collaborative effort.
16:59:13copperI don't know if it would actually be welcome
16:59:22kugelideal would be a set of simple themes that can be checked in an automated way
16:59:35kugelby comparing screenshots or whatever
16:59:43chrisjjCollaborative esp. since it would indeed not be welcomed by some.
17:00:02chrisjjAbsolutely. This is the way it is done elsewhere.
17:00:27coppertheming is dead until the theme engine gets fixed (which it won't be)
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17:00:46chrisjjEven semi-automatic compare with e.g. Beyond Compare would be good enough.
17:01:31copperHEAD suddenly breaking my themes is the manifestation of that
17:01:36chrisjjTheming has become no less a benefit of Rockbox since it first appeared, so I don't think one can say it will not get fixed.
17:02:06chrisjjThat's not a manifestation of "won't be". Just of "is not yet".
17:02:21copperand my workarounds fixing older builds is the same manifestation of it
17:02:39copperbasically there is no reliable way of making a proper theme
17:02:48chrisjjCurrently, perhaps.
17:03:05chrisjjI am sure a reliable theme engine could be provided.
17:03:21copperapparently not
17:03:33copperit's apparently very difficult
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17:03:58chrisjjIt is only very difficult if attempted without plan, spec or validation.
17:04:18copperI'm certainly not qualified to do anything about it
17:04:19pamaurythe theme engine will eventually get fixed, no need to be so dramatic
17:04:45chrisjj.. and when hobbled by requirement of back-compatibility.
17:05:23pamaurymemory corruption and the theme engine should be my next projects when I am done with the current targets, we have pretty obvious problems in those areas
17:05:33chrisjjGreat news.
17:05:47coppercoming from you, that's actually comforting
17:05:53chrisjjBut I'd vote for memory corruption first :)
17:06:11pamaurybut other devs are in the same situation: not much free time
17:06:28copperand no new blood, either
17:06:47chrisjjpamaury: do you have experience of grammar-driven machine-generated parsers?
17:07:15pamaurya bit
17:07:18toehser1I attached a crash inducing file to the flyspray bug.
17:07:56pamaurychrisjj: what for ?
17:08:07gevaertstoehser1: so with that file, the tomsway2 theme, and the clip zip sim, you get crashes, right?
17:08:26chrisjjGood to hear. I'd be happy to help on a new format that was rigorously defined and validatible...
17:08:36chrisjj.. and necessarily incompatible with the current.
17:08:39toehser1from git head
17:08:50toehser1on the sim
17:09:03pamaurywe already have a wps checker I think
17:09:07toehser1hang on a min, I'll try with 3.13 on the real clip zip with that file
17:09:08chrisjjpamaury: for theme script.
17:09:45gevaertstoehser1: I prefer sim crashes. No real device here :)
17:10:15gevaertstoehser1: any other special settings? I don't seem to have issues...
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17:11:42pamauryI'm not sure changing the theme engine format is the right way to go, fixing the engine is
17:11:43toehser1No - I'm just launching the sim built from git head, selecting tomsway2 theme, and then playing that file, and it crashes.
17:12:34gevaertsDo you have other files on the device?
17:12:51gevaertsI only have the one, so I get the "no next file" case. Maybe that's involved?
17:13:35toehser1This is a clean sim build / install + unzip the theme + copy just that file and play only that file.
17:13:50toehser1Huh, so there is some other variable about the builds.
17:14:19gevaertsWhat I did was make, make install, unzip -d simdisk, unzip -d simdisk, start the sim, select the theme, and play
17:14:20toehser1That file alone has _not_ yet crashed 3.13 on the real device or done the font weirdness.
17:14:34toehser1that's what I did, I think, too...
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17:14:49toehser1and I get a core dump right away.
17:15:28toehser1With the message "*** stack smashing detected ***: ./rockboxui terminated
17:15:59gevaertsOK, so probably different compiler settings? Let me try valgrind...
17:16:21toehser1But in the real player with 3.13, I have that file playing now for a WHILE without problem...
17:17:17toehser1It isn't impossible that I'm running into 2 issues, the original one that takes a while to fail, in 3.13, where the font changes magically to sysfont and then it crashes on power off, theme change, font change, or wps change; and the issues I'm seeing in git head I'm building myself.
17:19:11chrisjjpamaury: "we already have a wps checker I think" checkwps? AFAICS that simply calls the RB parser, bugs and all.
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17:20:43chrisjjPamaruy: "I'm not sure changing the theme engine format is the right way to go, fixing the engine is" Well, I don't see how you can fix the engine without some format changes. E.g. consider copper's if() bug.
17:21:15copperthose are two different problems
17:21:37chrisjjI see only one different problem :)
17:21:38copperthe %?if bug is isolated
17:21:45chrisjjisolated to what?
17:21:48gevaertstoehser1: ok, with -fstack-protector, I can reproduce the crash
17:21:57copperchrisjj: it's not some "weird" glitch
17:22:05copperit's consistent
17:22:16toehser1what is "-fstack-protector"?
17:22:29toehser1a compile flag, or a sim runtime flag?
17:22:39toehser1Is that looking for stack operations that shouldn't be happening?
17:22:57gevaertsA compile flag, which your gcc seems to have enabled by default
17:23:00chrisjjI agree it is different in the sense that it can be managed i.e. "fixed" in the documentation.
17:23:30Mode"#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
17:23:34toehser1Ah. I'm in an Ubuntu Raring environment I think, AMD64.
17:23:55toehser1Maybe the gcc authors changed the defaults.
17:24:10chrisjjPerhaps your saying a first priority should be fixing only weird glitches?
17:24:56pamaurychrisjj: I know nothing about the theme engine but what from what I understand, the major issue is memory corruption which causes the theme engine to break everything else. That's unrelated to the langage itself
17:25:35pamauryThe second problem is the specification: the theme doesn't behave as expected or as it should be, that's a bug and not a problem with the langage.
17:25:36toehser1If I understand it, it is catching some mis begotten stray write to the wrong place, probably the same one that fails with the bizarre sysfont then crash in 3.13, but catching it earlier.
17:29:03chrisjjpamaury: Thanks for the clarification. If the corruption can be fixed without sufficient engine work to justify a new parser and hence possible language change, that would be great.
17:29:40pamauryI can't know for sure, but except if people think the langage is really bad, that's not a problem with the langage
17:29:57chrisjj"the theme doesn't behave as expected" is not very useful since unfortunately expectations vary.
17:30:32pamaurythat's why people write specification
17:30:55pamauryexpectations have to be reasonable too
17:31:26chrisjjThen if you are happy to accept the existing specification, you can say the problem is when "engine does not perform to spec.".
17:32:15chrisjjI think this returns to the problem that there are two specs for one engine.
17:32:53chrisjjApropos that, I have added a warning at I have added a warning at;rev2=243 . I guess some people here won't like that - of course they are free to revert it.
17:33:04pamaurytell me if I'm wrong but part of the problem is that the engine behaves different from both spec
17:34:19chrisjjNo surprise. Perhaps different engine devs have followed different specs :)
17:34:46pamaurythere was only one engine dev at this point, mostly
17:35:07toehser1I thought the custom wps thing was the final arbiter and canonical doc - at least, it was able to be used ... the manual didn't seem to actually cover the behavior up to date?
17:35:16pamauryJdGordon did most of its written and maybe kugel did some bugfix, correctly me if I'm wrong
17:35:20chrisjjThat's good. Perhaps he'll help in the extraction of the thrid spec in his head :)
17:35:22gevaertstoehser1: ok, I see where it crashes
17:36:07toehser1You're too fast. Did you analyze the core dump to get it?
17:36:34gevaertsWell, and I rebuilt it with -O0 to get better source/binary matching :)
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17:37:46gevaertsthe problem is that in apps/gui/line.c print_line() doesn't do proper string length checks
17:38:42gevaertsYou're giving it "1999 MP3 165 (avg) 44100 /(08) Ceremonie Mandingue - Balan - Musiques Paysannes D'Haiti - Peasant music from Haiti - Ceremonie Mandingue - Balan.mp3", which is 148 bytes long, and it uses a 128 byte buffer
17:38:50chrisjjI recall JdGordon saying he hates documentation, so I wonder what can be done to get his help? :)
17:39:39chrisjj"I thought the custom wps thing was the final arbiter and canonical doc". Based on what, may I ask?
17:40:07toehser1And beyond that buffer is, "something, anything, but no good can come of this...".
17:40:17toehser1128 seems awfully small, also.
17:40:26gevaertsYes and no
17:40:39gevaertsIt's quite large on the stack sizes we use :)
17:41:26gevaerts128 is smallish for a string limit, yes, but in theory at least that buffer doesn't have to be as big as the strings you want to use
17:41:40toehser1What line/function in line.c?
17:42:06gevaertsprint_line(), line 150+
17:42:15toehser1So the code should be looping through if the buffer is too small, it can be made to handle the 148 byte string, without a larger buffer?
17:42:52gevaertsMaybe. I haven't really understood the code yet
17:43:38chrisjjGot to go now.
17:43:51toehser1I see things like tempbuf[tempbuf_idx++] = ch without any check, that looks dangerous right there.
17:44:06*gevaerts nods
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17:46:24toehser1Funny how my mind works, I suspected all manner of "fancy" things, like Anti-Aliased fonts, UTF-8, progress-bar-draw-rectangle-tick-marks - I didn't expect just "the file name is long and the buffer is short". Mental prejudice to look for "odd" bug causes. I need to drum into myself "don't assume the problem is crazy subtle".
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17:50:05gevaertsOK, it won't be easy to fix nicely, due to the scrolling being handled further on, so if you e.g. cut it into chunks of 32 characters, you'll get individual 32 character scrolling areas
17:56:53toehser1I would say take the easy ways out, double the buffer to 256 and truncate anything longer and document that in both the manual and the custom wps spec...
17:57:42toehser1Makes sense that when it was seen before, it was anecdotally thought to involve scrolling, since long things are the ones that will scroll.
17:59:20gevaertsThe 3.13 issue is bound to be different though, this is fairly new code
17:59:50gevaertsCould still be length-related of course
18:01:26gevaertsHmmm, there might be a better solution. That function is designed to handle various formatting things, which I suspect are used in lists, but probably not in your case
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18:02:28gevaertsIf so, we could truncate if there are no more formatting things, but if the substring we're working with is the last one in the text, we could just pass it on to the drawing functions without actually needing to copy it
18:02:44gevaertsThat might mean a second pass over the string which might slow things down though
18:03:16*gevaerts will wait for kugel's comments first
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18:35:05toehser1Ok... so... curious about my issue in 3.13... I downloaded the 3.13 source and built a sim from it...
18:36:16toehser1I get a DIFFERENT *very weird* error... I created a playlist of 668 songs, and playing it, and only hitting "right"... _suddenly_ I was in a playlist with only 1 song! It auto-magically switched from something like 50/668 to 1/1.
18:37:12toehser1No crash or stack error yet from 3.13 source, also no lost-font in the sim I built from 3.13 source.
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18:51:18toehser1The 3.13 I built myself from source does fail with the weird sysfont bug - at least, I'm getting a consistent failure between my own build and the official build... :)
18:51:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:52:30toehser1That's on the real hardware, not the sim.
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19:16:29toehser1In the sim, with 3.13, from source, I get "SDL_WaitEvent() error" but I'm suspecting that is because something crashed and then something tried to talk to it, secondary or tertiary.
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20:03:43AlexPchrisjj: Could you change the warning you added to the CustomWPS page into English please?
20:03:49AlexPOr remove it
20:03:51AlexPEither or
20:04:32Mode"#rockbox -o AlexP" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
20:04:55toehser13.13 in sim is getting sig 11 in buflib_get_data buflib.h 219
20:05:31 Quit Scromple (Ping timeout: 262 seconds)
20:05:36AlexPSod it, I'll do it
20:06:08toehser1return (void*)(context->handle_table[-handle].alloc)
20:06:29toehser1when it crashes
20:11:40toehser1called from core_get_data in core_alloc.c 39
20:11:53toehser1from lock_font_handle in font.c 129
20:12:03toehser1from font_lock in font.c 141
20:12:34toehser1from lcd_putsxyofs in lcd-bitmap-common.c 281
20:12:57gevaertsOK, so buflib metadata corruption
20:15:24toehser1Not an inference I'm able to make yet, I'm just in the first hour or so of either rockbox source _or_ gdb...
20:16:19gevaertsWell, if core_get_data() crashes, the data it's working with has to be bad
20:17:09toehser1Meaning, whatever broke the structure in memory, is maybe completely unrelated to the code that crashed?
20:17:23gevaertsThe best bugs :)
20:18:14toehser1It happened on a long file name again, so I can start by looking at 3.13 buffers.
20:18:35toehser1Or, I can fix git head to a longer buffer, and see if git head still gets THIS bug, too...
20:18:48gevaertsOr both :)
20:19:11toehser1Where are our continuous integration test cases and server, so I can add a long file name case to the automatic regressions?
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20:19:49gevaertsThey were last seen running away at high speed
20:23:29gevaertsIs wodz' buflib checksum code available somewhere/
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20:51:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:14:28gevaertstoehser1: how long do you typically have to wait for things to crash in the 3.13 sim?
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21:28:30wodzgevaerts: buflib checksum code is in rather hacky form in my local tree. I might try to clean it up a bit and push to gerrit right now as I have a few spare minutes
21:29:34gevaertsThat could be useful to find toehser1's issue :)
21:30:04toehser1Pretty quick. Let me check.
21:30:53toehser1play song, hit right (next song) 3 -4 times, bam
21:31:11toehser1(between 3:30:06 and 3:30:55...)
21:31:19toehser1That is how long I have to wait...
21:35:32toehser1If I just let it play, it might be 20 minutes, I think it is associated with what happens when it changes songs.
21:35:52gevaertsMaybe the font cache?
21:36:16gevaerts(as in, different characters are needed)
21:36:34toehser1Let me try with a different font- this is with an AA font...
21:36:44*gevaerts doesn't have a clue, really
21:37:01toehser1crashes with 08-Rockfont, too.
21:37:40toehser1same backtrace - always core_gest_data from lock_font_handle from font_lock from lcd_putsxyofs
21:38:22gevaertsI don't seem to be able to reproduce it, so I suspect either filenames or metadata are again involved
21:38:55toehser1short file names seems to not fail
21:39:17*gevaerts renames files
21:39:47toehser1I can try to make a set of not-huge files with very-weird names and see if I can get a case that fails it.
21:40:12toehser1I am built with -O0 and -fstack-whatever right now.
21:41:03gevaertsoh, fun. These filenames are *too* long :)
21:41:09gevaerts(instant segfault)
21:41:54gevaertsAh, good. in the right place :)
21:42:16gevaertsSo yes, just long filenames
21:42:44toehser1Wait - not sure I really have the same backtrace always - it wasn't creating new core files to overwrite my old one.
21:42:57toehser1You've reproduced now, just by using long file names?
21:43:20toehser1Fantastic - my long file names have exposed *2 completely different bugs*!
21:43:29toehser1I'll try for 3 now, I guess?
21:44:35toehser1Now I'm sure, I always get the same backtrace - doesn't that imply the corruption is fairly locally not too long before the effect hits?
21:45:24toehser1Should I create a different flyspray for the 3.13 one, or just use the one we have for all "long file names break things"?
21:49:01wodzgevaerts: g#711
21:49:03fs-bluebotGerrit review #711 at : by Marcin Bukat (changes/11/711/1)
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21:55:33gevaertsbuflib_allocations[] in font.c is clearly overwritten
21:56:10gevaertsSo not the buflib metadata itself, just the handles. If you're going to ask buflib for handle 6815841, things will not work well :)
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22:07:49gevaertstoehser1: this one seems to be bidi.c, in bidi_l2v()
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22:09:33kugelgevaerts: nice find. I produced some buggy code there :
22:11:05kugelgevaerts: the problem is scrolling
22:11:30kugelyou need to print the string (including NUL) as a whole at once to have it scroll properly
22:11:36gevaertsYes, I know
22:12:51toehser1How did you find it?
22:13:09kugelthe temp buffer is just for the NUL byte actually
22:14:16gevaertskugel: could you (horrible, I know!) put a NUL in the string, remember what was there, and put it back after passing the line to the lcd code?
22:14:38*[Saint] directs a statement to no one in particular (but, you'll know who you are, I should imagine...):
22:14:39[Saint]"If you find documentation errors, and are impassioned enough to rant about it for over an hour, maybe you should consider submitting a patch instead of getting pissed off about nothing getting done about it"
22:15:00kugelgevaerts: yes, i guess
22:15:06gevaertstoehser1: I found that the values in buffer_allocations in font.c were wrong, so with gdb I set a watch on that :)
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22:15:20gevaertsLong filenames are really *bad*!!
22:15:42gevaertsEvery time I increase a buffer, it crashes somewhere else
22:16:22kugelgevaerts: except it wouldnt work
22:16:51kugelinline strings are most probably literals
22:17:00gevaertsoh, right...
22:17:34gevaertsWell, you could probably make it even hackier by copying to tempbuf if the string is short
22:17:44gevaertsWhich should catch all of the built-in ones
22:17:49toehser1Spec says they can be up to 255 unicode chars long.
22:18:15toehser1So just making the buffers from 128 to 256 should be more than sufficient...
22:18:37toehser1Oh - it isn't long file names though - isn't it really "any long string in the viewport?"
22:18:56kugelgevaerts: and this is different from now in what way?
22:19:10toehser1The one we looked at was a concatenation of the file name with other stuff... so it really needs to do something _sane_ when the input string is even longer...
22:19:27gevaertskugel: then you'd handle the long strings in-place. I don't think that's a very nice solution though
22:19:37gevaertsAt least we need to check the size
22:19:50kugelyou mean assuming very long strings are not literals?
22:20:15toehser1I like "check the size and truncate to 256, document 256 as the limit, fix buffers that don't support 256".
22:20:25kugelgevaerts: haha, now this is really terrible :)
22:20:51gevaertskugel: it *would* work :)
22:22:36kugelI suggest the following: a) bump tempbuf to MAX_PATH (+X)
22:22:48toehser1bidi_l2v is confusing me.
22:22:53kugelb) never write past tempbuf
22:23:57kugelc) when the limit is hit (should be rare), see if this inline string is the last token (no more '$' in the remaing)
22:24:32gevaertsYes, that seems sensible
22:24:37kugelif yes (the likely case), print the string as is (no length limitation); if no truncate and skip to the next token
22:26:31kugelmost (if not all) inline strings are are either prefixes (likely short ones) or suffixes (might be long)
22:27:18gevaertstoehser1: you're not alone...
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22:28:33gevaertskugel: unless we go for horrible hacks, we need some sort of limit with possible truncation. I think what you described is the best way to achieve that
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22:29:02kugeltoehser1: we generally truncate filenames (including path) at MAX_PATH (=260). this can be less than 256 chars for unicode
22:29:47kugelgevaerts: yes, it would truncate only in the least probable of the unlikely cases
22:29:51toehser1Sounds fine to me.
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22:30:44toehser1I'll take some characters truncated from a scrolling 250 character filename in a 96 pixel field over buffer corruption and segfaults by a large margin :)
22:30:46gevaertskugel: I'd also make tempbuf static to avoid random stack issues
22:31:17[Saint]toehser1: Well...when you put it that way. ;)
22:31:20kugeland then we get other random issues?
22:32:01gevaertsWell, yes and no :)
22:32:08toehser1There won't be any issues. You're going to catch all the cases. So it doesn't matter where it is. Right?
22:32:13kugelwe are more likely to see stack overflows than static memory overflows
22:32:23kugelbecause we have a loosy check for that
22:34:23kugelmaking it static doesn't buy us anything, but comes at costs (non-reentrant, RAM usage). if the stack isn't large enough I would rather increases that instead of making X buffers static (which easily costs more RAM)
22:35:17gevaertsI don't feel very strongly about this, really
22:35:37gevaertsWhat I do feel strongly about is that gdb watch doesn't want to work any more here :(
22:35:45kugeltoehser1: there is the possiblity that the stack memory is exhausted
22:36:20kugelunlike on a PC we actually have limits for that :)
22:36:43kugelgevaerts: what if you increase the main stack size?
22:36:56kugelmost filename buffers are on stack iirc
22:37:24gevaertskugel: I think I've done something wrong earlier. Still working on that bidi one
22:37:42gevaertsI can't confirm the other crash/issue I saw any more
22:39:38kugelah man
22:39:43kugelmy idea doesnt work
22:39:54kugelyou need to copy for another reason
22:40:20kugelto escape '$' :/
22:40:47gevaertsWell, you could probably check if that's needed, but it's getting a bit involved then
22:41:37kugelalright, I guess we have to live with truncation then. at least there is a workaround: do not use inline text but pass the string via $t
22:42:30kugel(and mind you, inline text exceeding MAX_PATH shouldn't be a thing, because it looks really ugly in the code :p)
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22:48:17toehser1How would I judge if it is exhausting the stack memory?
22:48:37gevaertsYou should get a panic for that
22:48:52gevaertsSo if you don't know, it's not likely :)
22:48:52toehser1Gevaerts: You mean, the one that hit after you increased buffers in bidi, isn't happening?
22:49:07gevaertstoehser1: yes, I think I did something wrong there
22:49:20gevaertsRight now I'm trying to figure out how to tell bidi to check sizes
22:49:21toehser1I can live with only 2 bugs to fix rather than 3.
22:50:25toehser1The line.c one was only on head, not 3.13 - but the bidi one I assume is still there on head, just never gets hit with the line.c one?
22:51:01gevaertsI checked. It's there
22:51:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:59:37fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 3be3a40, 249 builds, 35 clients.
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23:01:01kugelgevaerts: hm, what call caused the tempbuf overflow? it should really happen only with inline strings
23:02:32fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 176 seconds.
23:04:10gevaertsbah, something is really wrong. I can't get anything useful out of gdb any more :(
23:07:12wodzpamaury: (log) for imx233 really misses the point of .init section. The whole hassle is to reclaim mem used by init functions called once at the very beginning and overlap .bss with this. Your linker script doesn't do that.
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23:18:07kugelgevaerts: can you have a quick look at
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23:23:44gevaertskugel: looks ok to me
23:24:10kugelI'm also changing the skin engine to use the suggested workaround
23:24:20kugelit can pass up to 1024 byte strings
23:26:13kugelunfortunately you cannot easily see the string in the backtrace anymore but meh
23:28:54fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 99f3f77, 249 builds, 35 clients.
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23:32:31fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 837cad0, 249 builds, 35 clients.
23:33:33gevaertstoehser1: that should fix the bidi issue
23:34:47kugelhm, I can't get a file wiht long name to be shown in the browser
23:35:14gevaertskugel: sim or target?
23:35:29gevaertsI can see my 200 character filenames fine on the sim
23:35:36fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 186 seconds.
23:35:44kugelgevaerts: sim
23:38:23kugelit prints ".rockbox directory not found" at boot with this file in the root
23:39:08gevaertsHow long is the filename?
23:40:47gevaertsThe brilliant thing is that although it doesn't see .rockbox, it still loads the theme
23:41:14kugelworks with 200
23:41:21kugelyea, very weird
23:42:36gevaerts252 works, 253 doesn't
23:43:26gevaertsI don't feel like figuring out why though
23:49:46toehser1Fantastic. I haven't tried putting files in the root, I always have a subdirectory, but isn't the root "special" in FAT filesystems?
23:50:09toehser1What about the line.c issue? Is that one still under analysis?
23:50:43gevaertsshould be gone too
23:51:04toehser1Is it ready to pull from git?
23:51:38toehser1k - I'll test it all out. Amazingly fast work there.
23:52:04gevaertsIt's easy once you know what's wrong :)
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