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| 00:59:14 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision a43cce2, 249 builds, 32 clients. |
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| 01:24:06 | chrisjj | kugel: at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12930 you wrote "however the manual is still wrong indeed." Could you clarify? |
| 01:48:35 | toehser1 | %pv returns "-73" 1 step up from the bottom, but the bottom returns "?-74" where "?" is non-printing but affects the substring offset... (clip zip)... huh? |
| 01:49:15 | toehser1 | so, %ss(1,2,%pv) returns "73" for -73, but one down from that returns "-7". |
| 01:49:18 | toehser1 | huh? |
| 01:49:34 | toehser1 | what is the non-printing character at the beginning when it is all the way down? |
| 01:50:15 | toehser1 | I know there is some kind of 'muted' conditional -but what is going on with the leading character? |
| 01:51:42 | toehser1 | NEVER MIND - I see what I did here... |
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| 04:09:05 | Rask | Hi all. I'm wondering - can Rockbox on a Sansa Fuze be set to pretend to be an iPod over USB? That is, for purposes of connecting to a system that has iPod integration over USB. |
| 04:09:56 | amayer | Rask: no feature like that has been implemented yet |
| 04:10:15 | Rask | Hmm.. |
| 04:11:09 | Rask | Does such a feature even exist, to your knowledge? My car has a USB port, but its method of dealing with a straight-up USB mass storage device is a bit braindead, and I've heard it's better if you use an iPod... but it has a USB port, not a dock connector, so I'm wondering if the iPod enumerates as a different type of device over USB that might account for different behavior. |
| 04:12:34 | amayer | Rask: im sure it could be done if your willing to put in the wrench time |
| 04:13:13 | amayer | i know we support some versions of IAP (ipod accessory protocal) |
| 04:13:28 | amayer | i dont know if any of the more recent versions are supported |
| 04:14:47 | Rask | Hmm, it looks like IAP goes over a standard RS232-like connection rather than USB. |
| 04:15:05 | amayer | *shrugs* over my head |
| 04:16:21 | Rask | Mmm. |
| 04:16:23 | Rask | Ok, thanks anyhoo. |
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| 05:00:59 | toehser1 | The palm pre did that - pretended over USB to be an apple product - and apple changed things to make it harder - so it might not be that simple. |
| 05:01:42 | JdGordon | not entirely correct |
| 05:01:59 | toehser1 | how so? |
| 05:02:20 | JdGordon | oh, err, not really answering you :) more frhter up |
| 05:02:26 | toehser1 | ah |
| 05:02:54 | JdGordon | with a bit of tweaking you should be able to run the iap code on any other device (getting it to compile is the hard part). you'd probably need to change the usb id's also |
| 05:03:20 | JdGordon | iirc rasher got a sansa pretending to be a ipod so itunes woiuld set the clock from a PC |
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| 06:09:04 | saratoga | i should really retest the clip+ battery life to see if its changed much recently |
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| 10:20:49 | PurlingNayuki | Let sansa learn to pretend to be an iPod? |
| 10:20:53 | PurlingNayuki | That sounds good. |
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| 10:52:19 | wodz | pamaury: no time to copy the data from intermediate buffer is mood point if there are drivers running in polled mode. Moreover interrupts are serialized so I can't still see the problem. You setup all dst addresses for ep dma engines to the intermediate buffer and in interrupt you copy the data to the actual location. |
| 10:53:16 | wodz | hmm, no you are right that will not work |
| 10:53:24 | wodz | damn |
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| 11:05:09 | PurlingNayuki | Who owns G#384? |
| 11:05:13 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #384 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/384 : Touchscreen: Show a line separator in lists. by Thomas Martitz (changes/84/384/3) |
| 11:06:34 | wodz | what do you mean by 'owns'? |
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| 11:28:49 | PurlingNayuki | Owner |
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| 11:35:47 | wodz | by Thomas Martitz should give you a hint |
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| 12:24:24 | PurlingNayuki | It's kugel... |
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| 13:25:45 | felipeluna | anyone knows how to control loops when using libgme decoder? |
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| 15:54:36 | chrisjj | rasher: do you read this? |
| 15:55:36 | gevaerts | toehser1: I did it *before* the news about the palm pre :) |
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| 16:14:58 | chrisjj | Seeing pamaury's http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2013-12/0006.shtml got much less reponse (zero) that IHMO it deserves (more than zero), I'm linking here in case anyone overlooked it. |
| 16:16:30 | chrisjj | "one cannot enable the plugins without fixing all of them" is really poor, so Option 1) looks excellent to me. But "only plugins which can be run/have a keymap" needs defining with care, I think. |
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| 16:21:22 | pamaury | ok thanks, unfortunately that doesn't solve the issue: someone has to do the work ^^ I began something back then but it's unfinished. For the moment I'm mostly trying to fix the lcd ZEN issue. I'm trying to get the STMP3700 errata because I know nearly for sure that it is a hardware bug. |
| 16:26:24 | chrisjj | "doesn't solve the issue: someone has to do the work ^^ " Solving the issue of lack of response might leads to solving the issue of lack of work :) |
| 16:27:10 | chrisjj | "hardware bug" meaning discrepancy between hardware behaviour and documentation? |
| 16:27:59 | pamaury | hey, well you could define it this way. In this case, it means part of hardware locks up and cannot be used anymore until you reboot. |
| 16:28:54 | pamaury | which is one very annoying way of not following the documentation ;) |
| 16:35:51 | chrisjj | Well, often that can be due to a bug in code but rarely is considered a bug in the hardware. Undefined behaviour is a fact of CPU life :) You could consider it a badly designed panic alert :) |
| 16:39:16 | pamaury | In this case, this is definitely a hardware bug, I managed to reproduce and get a live system over USB and clearly the hardware is not behaving as expected: the LCD DMA channel does is blocked and even reset won't work whereas it should. |
| 16:40:23 | pamaury | When a peripheral reset has no effect, this is usually a good sign that's it's a hardware bug. |
| 16:41:33 | chrisjj | The key think is: "whereas it should". If the docs say it should, then I agree there's a bug. |
| 16:42:06 | chrisjj | If the docs don't, then one may have to reevaluate ""not behaving as expected" :) |
| 16:43:34 | chrisjj | Perhaps consider that resetting a peripheral such as DMA channel may succeed in resetting the peripheral, but not the component on the receiving end of the channel. |
| 16:44:49 | gevaerts | chrisjj: do you know how many devices pamaury has reverse engineered and written drivers for? Maybe the possibility that he knows what he's talking about isn't *that* far fetched |
| 16:45:09 | pamaury | You should never read a hardware datasheet then, because you will find that most hardware is ill-documented ;) |
| 16:45:33 | | Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 16:47:21 | pamaury | despite being one of the best documented SoC I know, the stmp3700 is also a very complicated beast, and plenty of things are not properly documented. The behaviour of DMA channel reset isn't for example, but I think it's not ridiculous to admit that resetting a DMA channel should at least stop it and put it back to idle state |
| 16:48:20 | pamaury | Anyway, I have requested the STMP3700 errata to see if this a known problem |
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| 17:01:44 | chrisjj | I don't any see anyone not admitting that. I think resetting should put the controller to a defined state. But my point was that it does not put the component on the receiving end of the channel to a ready state, so if that component has got stuck, we're still stuck. |
| 17:03:05 | chrisjj | I've read (and written) hardware data sheets and yes I agree some are not great. But that would not suggests never to read one :) |
| 17:04:10 | chrisjj | "I have requested the STMP3700 errata to see if this a known problem" ISTR you also have the proven OF code disassembled? |
| 17:07:49 | pamaury | the bug is in the DMA channel here: the receiving side is fine. |
| 17:08:13 | chrisjj | Have you managed to monitor the receiving side? |
| 17:09:25 | pamaury | resetting the DMA channel does not reset the peripheral, it only ends the transfer. In this case, the peripheral is still working but the DMA channel is blocked and cannot be used anymore. |
| 17:09:39 | pamaury | the OF code doesn't help here unfortunately |
| 17:12:20 | chrisjj | OK. |
| 17:13:19 | pamaury | I am still unsure about how exactly this happen though |
| 17:13:52 | pamaury | I think it occurs in LCDIF DOTCLK mode if the the peripheral is reset while the fifo is not empty |
| 17:17:06 | chrisjj | "The peripheral" being the DMA controller?? |
| 17:18:27 | pamaury | no, the LCDIF |
| 17:18:30 | | Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:18:47 | pamaury | the DMA controller is completely separated from the LCDIF on STMP3700 |
| 17:19:01 | pamaury | (on imx233 the LCDIF embeds a DMA controller so it's simpler) |
| 17:19:32 | pamaury | (though you can still drive the LCDIF with external DMA on imx233) |
| 17:20:51 | chrisjj | "if the the peripheral is reset while the fifo is not empty" Sounds highly credible. |
| 17:21:38 | chrisjj | Can you first do a reset to empty the FIFO? |
| 17:24:16 | pamaury | not yet, what is weird is that OF bootloader usually stops the LCDIF before handing over to the firmware but it appears it justs gates a few clock and freeze the DMA instead of resetting so I'm not sure what is the correct way to handle the situation. That will be trial and error. |
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| 17:24:47 | chrisjj | Understood - not ideal and not safe, but perhaps it would narrow the search. |
| 17:24:53 | | Quit saratoga_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 17:26:57 | chrisjj | Good luck! |
| 17:27:01 | chrisjj | BTW, re "Actually I was not aware that we had a typedef rule", I'd guess it is this: Line26_Write_normal_C_code__No_new_types |
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| 17:27:39 | chrisjj | I mean http://bit.ly/Line26_Write_normal_C_code__No_new_types |
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| 17:40:42 | ac_ | hello people _o/ satisfied rockbox user here, I have a Sansa Fuze v2 |
| 17:41:26 | ac_ | I just have a question : is it possible to get rid of the non-free firmware completely ? |
| 17:44:09 | saratoga | not using our tools, although I suppose theres no reason someone couldn't write software to do so |
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| 17:47:49 | ac_ | Here is the problem : when plugged, rockbox boots on the original firmware, and when unplugged, it refreshes the library, and this takes a ridiculously long time, and of course I can't shut it down while it's plugged |
| 17:48:17 | saratoga | we actually don't boot the OF on USB insertion, or at least haven't for a few years now |
| 17:49:08 | ac_ | saratoga: usually I boot it on rockbox before plugging it, but when the battery is empty I have no choice |
| 17:49:27 | saratoga | my guess is you are running some very old bootloader |
| 17:50:17 | ac_ | saratoga: you could be right, I've updated rockbox, but haven't thought updating the bootloader |
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| 17:52:58 | ac_ | I also have a bug that happened few times : the device completely freezes at boot (booting rockbox), giving a blank screen, and there's no way to shut it down (it' a shame you can't remove the battery :/ ). I have to wait for the battery to empty and then charge it again. But my device is getting old, maybe it's hardware-related. |
| 17:59:47 | chrisjj | ac_:I've found when that when RB crashes like that here, a device reset is sufficient to recover. Did you try device reset? On Sansa Fuze, hld Power for 20secs. |
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| 18:01:46 | ac_ | chrisjj: I didn't know about device reset, but IIRC I have tried holding the power button for 1 min and nothing happened |
| 18:02:05 | saratoga | bug reports for the circa 2011 bootloader are not very interesting |
| 18:02:31 | chrisjj | Odd. Perhaps try that when the device is not crashed - to verify. |
| 18:03:15 | saratoga | its probably just crashed with the clocks screwed up badly enough that the hardware that monitors the buttons isn't running |
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| 18:07:41 | ac_ | chrisjj: what does device reset do ? does it remove rockbox ? |
| 18:07:50 | saratoga | cuts power to the device |
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| 18:09:36 | chrisjj | ac_: It simply reboots the software, like e.g. Windows, Restart. It does not remove Rockbox or affect the any audio files. |
| 18:10:21 | ac_ | saratoga, chrisjj : ok, it's a "soft reset" then :P |
| 18:11:29 | ac_ | I don't remember how I installed the bootloader, is it via the rockbox utility ? |
| 18:12:32 | saratoga | yeah just intall a new one through that |
| 18:12:40 | chrisjj | You might want to first ensure you have a copy of the current bootloader on PC, should you need to go back to it. |
| 18:12:52 | ac_ | saratoga: how do I know the version of my bootloader ? |
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| 18:13:34 | saratoga | I believe it says the version briefly during startup |
| 18:14:21 | ac_ | well it's very brief :/ |
| 18:14:30 | ac_ | 3.0 I think |
| 18:25:51 | ac_ | looks like the new bootloader is still 3.0 |
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| 18:26:08 | ac_ | and boots the original firmware when plugged |
| 18:26:55 | ac_ | oh no 4.0 |
| 18:27:09 | ac_ | you have to reboot on the OF first, ok |
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| 18:27:38 | ac_ | yeah, it works, cool \o/ |
| 18:27:53 | ac_ | erf |
| 18:27:57 | ac_ | blank screen |
| 18:28:22 | ac_ | "Undefined instruction at 0000003C" |
| 18:29:09 | ac_ | but soft reset works |
| 18:31:48 | ac_ | ok now my device freezes when plugged |
| 18:32:14 | ac_ | and unfreezes when unplugged, strange |
| 18:33:24 | ac_ | "Undefined instruction at 0000003C" and then "Undefined instruction at 300BF4F8" when I press power |
| 18:33:37 | ac_ | I pres power again and it reboots |
| 18:35:22 | ac_ | "Data abort at 3002E298 FSR0x8 (domain 0, fault 8) address 0x746B635C pc:3002E298 sp:300A0878" |
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| 18:43:08 | chrisjj | "but soft reset works" Progress! :) |
| 18:44:03 | ac_ | Is it possible that a bad usb connexion could make rockbox crash ? I'm not confident with this crappy proprietary physical usb connexion |
| 18:44:24 | ac_ | there seem to be a little slack |
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| 18:52:42 | chrisjj | ac_: a bad USB connexion often crashes RB here, but I am using unstable ports. I don't know about the stable Sansa port. |
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| 23:16:12 | kugel | copper: fixed |
| 23:17:13 | | Part keypin |
| 23:23:09 | copper | kugel: excellent :D |
| 23:26:03 | copper | hmmm |
| 23:26:14 | copper | makes me want to get back to theming |
| 23:26:21 | copper | I have a couple ideas |
| 23:27:49 | kugel | I have a new idea how to handle the themes at usb screen |
| 23:28:11 | kugel | JdGordon, gevaerts, [Saint]: ^ |
| 23:28:28 | kugel | AFAIK the main problem with themes there is that fonts are unavailable |
| 23:29:06 | JdGordon | go on? |
| 23:29:24 | kugel | so my idea is that we allow skins as normal, but just block drawing text |
| 23:29:46 | copper | what fonts are unavailable? |
| 23:29:53 | gevaerts | Technically fonts aren't entirely unavailable |
| 23:29:58 | copper | ah |
| 23:30:01 | kugel | copper: all except sysfont |
| 23:30:10 | gevaerts | It's just that you can't get any glyphs that aren't in RAM |
| 23:30:10 | copper | you mean in that mode |
| 23:30:40 | gevaerts | And you can't really know which glyphs are in RAM at any given time |
| 23:30:47 | copper | kugel: blocking text updates would block showing battery charging progress |
| 23:31:23 | kugel | gevaerts: the cache is there yes, and I think it would be even better to assume the required glyphs are available; however handlign the case (which should be very unlikely) where this assumption doesn't hold isn't trivial |
| 23:31:56 | * | gevaerts tries to think |
| 23:32:34 | kugel | I considered returning a sysfont glyph or returning blank if the cache lookup fails, both are non-trivial to implement |
| 23:32:54 | kugel | copper: yes, it would also block printing the current time |
| 23:33:07 | kugel | for battery a bar tag could function as a workaround |
| 23:33:27 | gevaerts | For numbers, you can do fonts in bmp, but that's a bit of a hack |
| 23:33:49 | kugel | however, in any event, showing frozen text seems better than disabling the entire theme (leading to black screen with only the usb logo) |
| 23:34:13 | gevaerts | I'm trying to think how variable text will actually be on the USB screen. |
| 23:34:27 | kugel | gevaerts: can be arbitrary with SBSs |
| 23:35:00 | JdGordon | we could preload glyphs for it |
| 23:35:10 | copper | I don't understand |
| 23:35:12 | JdGordon | so it owuld just need a tag to say what to load |
| 23:35:19 | copper | the font used to switch to sysfont anyway |
| 23:35:20 | kugel | I'm all for more sophisticated solutions |
| 23:35:31 | gevaerts | kugel: it can be, yes, but there's no playback active, so how variable is it *really* for text that's not in thje theme itself (or numbers)? |
| 23:35:38 | kugel | however, playing around with my idea gives a reasonable result with little code changes |
| 23:35:58 | kugel | gevaerts: fm radio can be active, no? |
| 23:36:19 | gevaerts | hmmm |
| 23:36:20 | gevaerts | right |
| 23:36:52 | kugel | http://pastie.org/8633893 implements my idea |
| 23:37:48 | gevaerts | We do potentially have a lot more RAM available for font caching, now that UMS allocation isn't silly any more |
| 23:37:58 | kugel | the skin content can be arbitrary (and unicode) so I wouldnt go the route of trying to predict what text will be shown |
| 23:39:28 | JdGordon | blocking all text isnt very nice either |
| 23:39:36 | gevaerts | I'd allow sysfont at least |
| 23:40:11 | kugel | JdGordon: it's better than completely blank screen isnt it? |
| 23:41:03 | gevaerts | As a first step, I wouldn't go for a fallback to sysfont, so if the theme specifies another font, tough luck. If the theme asks for sysfont however, why not draw the text? |
| 23:41:47 | kugel | falling back to for all text doesn't work anyway |
| 23:41:55 | * | JdGordon heads to work |
| 23:42:19 | kugel | a) it has little character coverage and b) it has different geometrics which potentially messes up the skin layout |
| 23:42:26 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 23:43:39 | kugel | IMO the best would be either to cache the whole font (what you seemed to propose above) or return a placeholder glyph for the very very very unlikely case of a cache miss |
| 23:44:08 | kugel | not all targets can cache the whole font (and not all of them) I think |
| 23:44:16 | gevaerts | Definitely not |
| 23:44:31 | gevaerts | unifont is at least twice as big as the enire RAM on a clipv1 :) |
| 23:45:29 | gevaerts | There might be another caveat though |
| 23:46:31 | gevaerts | In the early days of usb on pp502x, I tried some sort of speed indicator on the USB screen, wich managed to destabilise USB by just wanting a bit of CPU on my e200 |
| 23:47:16 | gevaerts | I suspect things would be better now (there were lots of bugs in the driver back then), but I'm not entirely sure if all of our USB drivers will handle e.g. scrolling stuff or fancy animations |
| 23:47:36 | kugel | the update rate of the sbs is limited (even with peakmeter on) so it shouldnt hog the CPU much |
| 23:47:50 | gevaerts | We'll have to see |
| 23:48:21 | kugel | "scrolling stuff" as in drawing text? |
| 23:48:28 | gevaerts | Yes :) |
| 23:49:46 | kugel | so what to do with my idea? |
| 23:50:34 | kugel | I haven't seen an attempt in years to handle this problem properly so I'm willing to accept such a short-term solution |
| 23:52:18 | * | gevaerts looks at some code |
| 23:54:43 | gevaerts | I'd still allow text if the theme specifies font 0, but I can't find right away how to do that |
| 23:54:51 | gevaerts | Apart from that detail, I'm all for it |
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