| 00:00:30 | [Saint] | I don't really see the point in themeing if you'll never be able to guarantee the result. |
| 00:00:55 | [Saint] | it may as well be forced so we know whats there. |
| 00:01:09 | [Saint] | remove the user part altogether. |
| 00:01:10 | kugel | fwiw, falling back to sysfont is also not as easy as you might think |
| 00:01:33 | [Saint] | which is another reason why this seems odd. |
| 00:02:10 | kugel | huh? |
| 00:02:12 | | Quit sulky (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 00:02:37 | [Saint] | At this stage it seems simpler to disallow themeing, we'll know exactly whats needed. |
| 00:02:59 | kugel | yea, a black & blank screen |
| 00:03:08 | kugel | that is terrible |
| 00:03:09 | gevaerts | Well yes. disallowing theming is trivial. Just don't do anything :) |
| 00:03:48 | | Join sulky [0] (sulky@gateway/shell/cadoth.net/x-jdmjpjzfpcjbdcxt) |
| 00:04:16 | [Saint] | its just to me, mismatched fonts seems terrible. and it'll look awful, and break intended spacing, and very few targets actually need it. |
| 00:04:55 | [Saint] | so instead of butchering someone's theme, why dont we show our own screen? |
| 00:05:19 | [Saint] | time, date...what else do we need, really? a usb pic. |
| 00:05:37 | gevaerts | So how do you show time and date? |
| 00:06:19 | [Saint] | those glyphs are pretty much guaranteed to be in RAM, no? |
| 00:06:58 | [Saint] | as it works already. albeit seemingly accidentally? |
| 00:07:01 | gevaerts | Well, according to current thinking, so are he other ones needed for this screen |
| 00:07:13 | gevaerts | What works already? |
| 00:07:30 | [Saint] | userfont in usb sbs. |
| 00:07:40 | kugel | [Saint]: mismatched fonts? |
| 00:07:46 | [Saint] | unless that was very recently fixed. |
| 00:08:42 | gevaerts | You shouldn't be seeing any sbs on the usb screen *at all* with current git. If you do, it's a serious bug |
| 00:08:52 | kugel | that the USB screen showed something other than the USB logo on a solid black background was actually a bug |
| 00:09:06 | kugel | so if the userfont "worked" it'll still work |
| 00:10:15 | kugel | gevaerts: s/current git/HEAD^^/. the USB screen actually showed the backdrop and sometimes other stuff |
| 00:10:28 | kugel | but that was due to a bug where the themes got re-enabled partly |
| 00:10:40 | kugel | the intention was indeed to show usb logo on black |
| 00:10:53 | gevaerts | Yes, I know. I did see the commit go by that fixed it :) |
| 00:11:14 | gevaerts | You might be able to get the built-in status bar, but that's it |
| 00:11:43 | gevaerts | If you want to show the clock large enough to be readable, you need this patch |
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| 00:17:09 | [Saint] | errr, sorry, by mismatched fonts I meant the (however supposedly unlikely its suppoed to be) chance of a cache miss. It doesn't sit too well with me that there's no way to guarantee the theme will display as intended. |
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| 00:17:42 | [Saint] | I might find myself loading a giant bitmapstrip to avoid this. |
| 00:17:53 | | Quit DormantBrain (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 00:18:15 | gevaerts | [Saint]: again, there are ways to handle this sort of thing if it turns out to be a problem |
| 00:19:07 | kugel | if you use bitmaps even before the problem shows up then we're going to have a hard time improving it |
| 00:19:26 | gevaerts | Nobody is suggesting that this will be the last commit to rockbox :) |
| 00:19:46 | | Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 00:19:47 | kugel | on the other hand, you're now at least in a situation where you can use bitmaps in the usb screen, whereas previously you couldn't do anything |
| 00:20:27 | [Saint] | I dunno...sbs always used to work for me. |
| 00:20:37 | gevaerts | due to serious bugs, yes :) |
| 00:20:40 | kugel | also you can fall back to sysfont manually, by %Vd'ing a suitable viewport (%cs support is coming) |
| 00:20:40 | [Saint] | even though I knew it shouldn't. |
| 00:21:30 | kugel | but automatic fallback to sysfont has a number of problems, and realistically no benefit |
| 00:22:28 | JdGordon | I havnt read the backlig (or patch yet) but why do you think it is unlikey the glyph wont be in cache? |
| 00:22:33 | kugel | problems are a) poor character coverage, b) changed glpyh geometrics (could destroy carefully crafted themes), c) it's too small for many eyes |
| 00:23:32 | kugel | and probably some others |
| 00:23:56 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 00:24:12 | kugel | JdGordon: because what you have last displayed is in cache |
| 00:24:30 | gevaerts | JdGordon: as I see it, basically because the sbs has been visible all along |
| 00:24:57 | JdGordon | so? changing to the usb viewport or whatever is likely to introduce new strings |
| 00:25:38 | gevaerts | Yes. We probably need to make sure that's done *before* the fonts are shut down |
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| 00:25:57 | JdGordon | yes |
| 00:26:11 | JdGordon | potentially with a tag to say which glpyhs you want cached |
| 00:26:34 | ildarion | Hi |
| 00:26:35 | JdGordon | I could even see a case for a different font wanted for the usb screen with much larger glphs |
| 00:27:06 | | Join sprout_now [0] (~RJChesko@210.13.104.52) |
| 00:27:08 | saratoga | so mentioned this before, but does anyone have any opinion about using the log to disk feature to record more USB errors? right now most error conditions are just logf, which is discarded in official builds |
| 00:27:30 | saratoga | in theory it would be simple to change them to logdiskf and then have them flush to memory after USB unmount |
| 00:27:41 | ildarion | Need some help with my sansa Fuze +, I don't understand exatly what is said: "However the imx_hid_recovery tool is in the SVN is capable of uploading a firmware file in the SbFileFormat based on some reverse-engineering we did. " |
| 00:27:45 | saratoga | this might return some interesting debug info when users report problems |
| 00:29:21 | gevaerts | saratoga: it certainly wouldn't *hurt* |
| 00:29:42 | saratoga | do you think it would help? |
| 00:29:51 | saratoga | no idea if the error conditions are even interesting |
| 00:30:34 | | Quit ildarion (Client Quit) |
| 00:31:02 | gevaerts | hard to say. It depends on what happens exactly |
| 00:31:24 | kugel | JdGordon: the sbs is updated before the fonts are shown (after usb screen is indicated by %cs), caching all static strings |
| 00:31:42 | JdGordon | kugel: just regadring point b) above... how does putting a blank or fallback square fix that? |
| 00:32:04 | saratoga | at very least it might allow us to classify which general type of failure different users have |
| 00:32:06 | JdGordon | what about dynamic strings? |
| 00:32:14 | JdGordon | i;e numbers for a clock/battery remaining |
| 00:32:17 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 00:32:55 | kugel | the height of the fallback is the same as the font height |
| 00:33:03 | kugel | so the line height doesnt change |
| 00:33:03 | JdGordon | and width? |
| 00:33:37 | JdGordon | hang on, how does the line height change if it falls back to sysfont? |
| 00:33:55 | JdGordon | surely it draws it at some sensible position without affecting that? |
| 00:34:07 | kugel | nope |
| 00:34:07 | JdGordon | thats a bug imo if it changes it |
| 00:34:15 | kugel | look at the code |
| 00:34:25 | kugel | and changing that isn't trivial |
| 00:34:27 | JdGordon | cant right now |
| 00:35:20 | kugel | if you're really really worried about cache misses then use bitmaps or an explicit sysfont viewport |
| 00:35:36 | kugel | but in practice I expect all necessary glpyhs to be cached |
| 00:36:01 | JdGordon | baseless assertion I think |
| 00:36:17 | kugel | in fact I haven't ever noticed that Rockbox had to load glyphs after cache warmup |
| 00:36:40 | gevaerts | I think right now we don't know, and I think there's only one way to know :) |
| 00:36:45 | JdGordon | me neither, but than only use ~40 glyphs |
| 00:36:54 | | Quit sprout_now (Quit: TinyIRC 1.1) |
| 00:36:57 | JdGordon | but most of the world doesnt just use latin letters |
| 00:37:17 | kugel | right, and all those are completely screwed with sysfont |
| 00:37:35 | kugel | which is why automatic fallback to it is not an option |
| 00:37:35 | JdGordon | well, yes |
| 00:37:40 | JdGordon | not always |
| 00:37:54 | JdGordon | they are only screwed if sysfont doesnt have the glyph |
| 00:38:08 | kugel | sysfont has only latin letters |
| 00:38:48 | JdGordon | i.e chinese heavy tags have filled the tags, but the user has a skin with "USB connected", those are in sysfont but not in the cache |
| 00:39:17 | JdGordon | filled the cache* |
| 00:39:27 | kugel | this case is catched by the initial skin update |
| 00:40:15 | JdGordon | and what about when they want to change it to "Now safe to eject"? |
| 00:40:22 | JdGordon | i.e like apples usb screen |
| 00:41:14 | kugel | you couldn't do this currently |
| 00:41:48 | kugel | anyway we can add measures to improve the probability or even make guarantees if it turns out to be a problem |
| 00:41:52 | JdGordon | only because the tag isnt there |
| 00:42:08 | kugel | no, our usb core can't do that either |
| 00:42:19 | kugel | right, gevaerts? |
| 00:45:14 | | Quit ender (Quit: Java is, in many ways, C++--. -- Michael Feldman) |
| 00:47:10 | JdGordon | kugel: back to the linehighet, what is that based on? |
| 00:48:44 | kugel | the font structure |
| 00:49:05 | kugel | which is freed when the font is unloaded |
| 00:49:12 | JdGordon | isnt lineheight some viewport value now? |
| 00:49:22 | JdGordon | i dont understand why drawing one glyph would change it |
| 00:49:36 | kugel | but that's not the problem. the problem is that the glyphs buffers have different geometrics |
| 00:50:06 | kugel | you cannot draw a 6x6 bitmap at 12px height because there are not enough bytes in the buffer |
| 00:50:25 | | Quit TBCOOL (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 00:50:48 | JdGordon | you can draw a 6px high glpygh at the bottom of that 12px space though |
| 00:50:56 | kugel | lcd_puts* just get the raw buffer for each glyph |
| 00:50:58 | JdGordon | or has fallback literally never worked? |
| 00:51:06 | kugel | with no width/height information |
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| 00:51:33 | kugel | the fallback worked but always changed the line height |
| 00:52:05 | JdGordon | thats a bug |
| 00:52:31 | kugel | the line height isnt a viewport value, not anymore for lists and it never has been for skins |
| 00:54:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:54:57 | JdGordon | so what *is* linehighet? |
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| 00:56:39 | kugel | JdGordon: it's a property for put_line() |
| 00:57:13 | kugel | but the skin engine always uses the line height derived from the font |
| 00:57:39 | kugel | if the font changes the line height does too |
| 00:57:51 | JdGordon | the font isnt changing, just one glyph needs to |
| 00:58:20 | kugel | huh? |
| 00:58:32 | kugel | why just one glyph? |
| 00:58:47 | JdGordon | the one which needs to use sysfont instead |
| 00:59:17 | kugel | you're suggesting to use missing glyphs from the sysfont, intermixed with real glyphs? |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:28 | kugel | I don't think that's any better. what if sysfont doesnt have that glyph? |
| 01:01:05 | kugel | also, as I said, the low level code doesn't allow for individual glyphs to have different height than the the font height |
| 01:01:46 | kugel | this kind of fallback never existed in Rockbox |
| 01:02:08 | JdGordon | what did fallback do then? |
| 01:02:39 | kugel | the usb screen did setuifont(FONT_SYSFIXED) |
| 01:02:58 | kugel | that is, changing the font entirely, including line height |
| 01:03:15 | JdGordon | no, i mean out of the usb screen |
| 01:03:21 | JdGordon | there is fallback code there |
| 01:03:25 | JdGordon | what does it do? |
| 01:03:35 | JdGordon | my impression was it would draw one glpygh from sysfont |
| 01:04:13 | kugel | you're wrong :) |
| 01:04:42 | JdGordon | what did it do then? |
| 01:04:46 | JdGordon | change the whole lines font? |
| 01:04:59 | kugel | what is "it"? |
| 01:05:10 | JdGordon | the fallback mechanism which has been there forever |
| 01:05:16 | kugel | the only kind of fallback is what I mentioned above |
| 01:05:37 | JdGordon | look at (i tihnk) get_glyph() or find_glypgh() in font.c |
| 01:06:08 | kugel | JdGordon: I edited this code all day today. there is no such fallback |
| 01:06:54 | JdGordon | there sure used to be |
| 01:07:12 | kugel | the fallback you're thinking of just loads all glyphs from sysfont |
| 01:07:40 | kugel | without looking the cache (which is also destroyed when the corresponding font is unloaded) |
| 01:09:41 | JdGordon | err... ok, looks like I was indeed misrememebring |
| 01:09:43 | JdGordon | sorry :/ |
| 01:10:00 | JdGordon | it wa fontid fallback, not glpygh fallback :/ |
| 01:10:21 | kugel | the fallback only works for fonts that are in-ram (only sysfont in practice) and you do need to set the viewports font id to that in-ram font |
| 01:10:32 | kugel | it doesn't work like you're thinking |
| 01:11:14 | JdGordon | so do we already show a box for missing glpyghs? |
| 01:11:24 | * | JdGordon will eventually spell that the ame way twice in a row! |
| 01:12:12 | kugel | right. the usb screen sets the font to sysfont, and if that doesnt have the glyphs then the box is shown |
| 01:12:43 | kugel | a non-sysfont font is not a thing during usb |
| 01:12:57 | kugel | well, was. I just changed that |
| 01:13:14 | * | kugel is off |
| 01:18:21 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
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| 01:32:52 | [Saint] | JdGordon: likely easy to miss as it never worked the way to code intended. |
| 01:33:01 | | Quit lebellium (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 01:33:05 | toehser1 | head is crashing on boot for me... |
| 01:33:10 | toehser1 | in clip zip real target |
| 01:33:12 | [Saint] | I only found out, say, about a year ago, that the sbs was never supposed to work in USB screen. |
| 01:33:25 | [Saint] | It didn't stop it, though. |
| 01:34:07 | toehser1 | not sure what theme though - I had been playing with various themes |
| 01:36:13 | toehser1 | it was 'sugarbrown'. I've backed out now |
| 01:37:52 | [Saint] | That theme may or may not have included some crazy workarounds for brokenness that may or may not exist anymore. |
| 01:38:07 | [Saint] | But either way, it still shouldn't be able to make the system fall over. |
| 01:40:58 | toehser1 | Not sure what my base theme was, something else, that is wps only, so probably didn't make it crash on boot, where it just goes to menu |
| 01:41:11 | toehser1 | I'll look into it later, have to go to dinner. |
| 01:42:02 | toehser1 | I think the base was "thescoop" |
| 01:42:05 | toehser1 | I'll try in sim. |
| 01:44:18 | toehser1 | That theme is giving me an "unable to load font" 4x6-L1 message in the sim, but not crashing |
| 01:45:19 | | Quit APLU (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 01:45:20 | [Saint] | Its just doing exactly what its supposed to, then. |
| 01:45:34 | [Saint] | If any asset can't be found, it should refuse to load the theme. |
| 01:46:18 | [Saint] | *why* the asset can't be found? Who knows. The themesite certainly shouldn't have allowed it to be uploaded if it called an asset it didn't include. |
| 01:47:23 | toehser1 | 0x0000000000498b2e in search (fcache=0x9e2578 <audiobuffer+96 |
| 01:47:23 | toehser1 | p_insertion_point=0x7fffffffd5e8) |
| 01:47:23 | toehser1 | at /home/tom/rockbox/git-tip/rockbox/firmware/font_cache. |
| 01:47:23 | toehser1 | 99 p = lru_data(&fcache->_lru, fcache->_index[mi |
| 01:47:34 | toehser1 | After I went and put the font in. |
| 01:47:55 | [Saint] | The theme didn't include the font it itself calls? |
| 01:48:01 | toehser1 | Steps: Pick theme "thescoop", then pick theme "sugarbrown" which overrides only the WPS. |
| 01:48:07 | [Saint] | Can you please flag it for admin assistence on the themesite? |
| 01:48:11 | toehser1 | right... but... I had it hanging around. |
| 01:48:28 | toehser1 | eh... I'm more interested in the segfault :) |
| 01:49:24 | toehser1 | after I did the "thescoop" base and "sugarbrown" wps, without font errors (copied the font in), sim is able to get that segfault |
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| 01:51:02 | toehser1 | 0x0000000000498b2e in search (fcache=0x9e2578 <audiobuffer+96 |
| 01:51:02 | toehser1 | p_insertion_point=0x7fffffffd5e8) |
| 01:51:02 | toehser1 | at /home/tom/rockbox/git-tip/rockbox/firmware/font_cache. |
| 01:51:02 | toehser1 | 99 p = lru_data(&fcache->_lru, fcache->_index[mi |
| 01:51:39 | toehser1 | weird, it truncated the paste... |
| 01:51:56 | toehser1 | That variable in the array is "mid" not "mi" |
| 01:52:18 | toehser1 | When I get back from dinner I'll see if it fails in 3.13 or if I have a new bug... |
| 02:00 |
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| 02:54:52 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:00 |
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| 04:00 |
| 04:01:25 | toehser1 | head segfaults this way but 3.13 doesn't |
| 04:02:41 | JdGordon | blame kugel |
| 04:02:42 | [Saint] | I suspect you'll want to talk to kugel about this. |
| 04:03:04 | [Saint] | The area he's been working in recently points at this. |
| 04:05:09 | toehser1 | The good news is, it doesn't segfault (so far) on the themes I actually use myself in real life... :) so my interest is somewhat more personally detached than it was for the bugs that were hitting me in real life daily use... |
| 04:06:43 | toehser1 | Oh - this is cool - corrupted font appearance |
| 04:07:15 | JdGordon | get a creenshot! |
| 04:08:42 | toehser1 | see http://imagebin.org/286967 |
| 04:09:00 | [Saint] | Bwahahahaha |
| 04:09:38 | [Saint] | Nice one. |
| 04:09:46 | JdGordon | REPOST! |
| 04:10:20 | | Join theaftermath [0] (~theafterm@64.90.187.141.static.nyinternet.net) |
| 04:11:55 | toehser1 | Font corruption survived navigation to menu and back to WPS, but sim reboot left font ok until it segfaulted. |
| 04:13:49 | toehser1 | Instructions to reproduce, build head, install "thescoop" and "sugarbrown" fonts, (clip zip sim), install other font that is missing from theme file, switch around between themes and play songs, bam segfault. Or if very lucky, cool font corruption. |
| 04:14:18 | [Saint] | That's odd. Leaving the wps and going back again would ensure the wps was unloaded and reloaded. |
| 04:14:27 | [Saint] | So, apparently its a least semi-reproducible. |
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| 04:54:54 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:00 |
| 05:05:47 | | Quit Zarggg (Quit: Zarggg) |
| 05:19:57 | toehser1 | I can reproduce the: |
| 05:20:40 | toehser1 | Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. |
| 05:20:40 | toehser1 | 0x0000000000498b2e in search (fcache=0x9e2d48 <audiobuffer+964968>, char_code=0, size=8055487, |
| 05:20:40 | toehser1 | p_insertion_point=0x7fffffffd5d8) at /home/tom/rockbox/git-tip/rockbox/firmware/font_cache.c:99 |
| 05:20:40 | toehser1 | 99 p = lru_data(&fcache->_lru, fcache->_index[mid]); |
| 05:20:43 | toehser1 | consistently. |
| 05:21:02 | toehser1 | I'm willing to believe that the font corruption was just a special case of the same issue. |
| 05:21:26 | [Saint] | Are you able to bisect the issue? |
| 05:22:06 | toehser1 | Build from various points seeing which change caused it? |
| 05:22:34 | [Saint] | git has this built in. YEs. |
| 05:23:33 | toehser1 | Technically, the answer is, 'yes', I'm 'able' to bisect it... |
| 05:24:47 | [Saint] | Well, I'm assuming you're not doing this all for fun, and you would like the issue fixed. |
| 05:25:01 | toehser1 | I have to meditate on the one problem with that... (namely, that the themes I actually use don't have the issue) ...probably my altruism and curiosity will trump my 'hmm, works for me...' mindset. |
| 05:25:23 | toehser1 | That is, essentially I _am_ doing it for fun, I sort of like breaking things... |
| 05:26:34 | toehser1 | I started paying attention when things broke for me, yes; but you guys have fixed all 3 bugs that affected me... Now I'm just noticing other things. |
| 05:27:48 | toehser1 | I'm gradually awakening parts of my brain that remember git and C and gdb. They have been sleeping for a while, since my day job has me immersed in J2EE. |
| 05:28:17 | [Saint] | Well, it would be somewhat nice if you could give back to the community by making us aware of the issues you do find. And given that you're playing with a debugger I am going to hazard a guess that building 3 or 4 binaries isn't going to put you out any. |
| 05:29:08 | [Saint] | Git bisect does ~90% of the work for you anyway. |
| 05:29:14 | toehser1 | True enough. The bigger issue right now is that in timezone -5 it is 23:30 and I'm going to bag it for tonight. |
| 05:29:50 | toehser1 | Learning git better is necessary for me anyway. The world is using git, not cvs and svn that I'm stuck with at work. |
| 05:30:39 | toehser1 | Enough for tonight - I'll do the bisect tomorrow. |
| 05:30:44 | [Saint] | o/ |
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| 05:51:04 | mudlord | question |
| 05:51:15 | mudlord | does rockbox.org and its subdomains use Akamai? |
| 05:51:44 | scorche | nope |
| 05:51:48 | mudlord | Weird |
| 05:51:59 | mudlord | then that doesnt explain my git access issues |
| 05:52:00 | mudlord | :/ |
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| 05:54:39 | | Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 05:55:09 | mudlord | main reason is because i was interested in tinkering with rockbox |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:42 | mudlord | for instance, i was wondering why the mikmod plugin ain't a codec |
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| 07:01:27 | | Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1) |
| 07:06:37 | | Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1) |
| 07:09:54 | | Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1) |
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| 07:29:26 | saratoga_ | mudlord: (for the logs) because the format isn't streamable and so can't use the buffering engine |
| 07:49:16 | * | [Saint] wonders if saratoga_ is banning again... |
| 07:49:36 | saratoga_ | yeah, banned another hosting company |
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| 08:00 |
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| 08:26:56 | [Saint] | You go get 'em, Tiger. |
| 08:28:09 | wodz | I wonder for how long DEBUG builds were broken for ipods unnoticed :-) |
| 08:29:36 | [Saint] | I built one around 2 years ago... |
| 08:30:12 | [Saint] | It doesn't /really/ surprise me it would go unnoticed. |
| 08:30:32 | [Saint] | We don't really have a lot of active development wrt: iPod(s) anymore. |
| 08:30:57 | wodz | is DEBUG and SIM mutually exclusive? |
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| 08:31:47 | [Saint] | I don't _think_ so. |
| 08:35:10 | wodz | hmm, so how should one do such build? |
| 08:38:15 | wodz | Apparently if you do configure a -> d -> s DEBUG define IS NOT set. |
| 08:39:21 | [Saint] | run configure, select advanced, select debug, pres enter again, select simulator, enter again, build? |
| 08:39:32 | [Saint] | It accepts the value, at least. |
| 08:39:53 | [Saint] | I can't say I ever noticed if it built correctly or not, though. |
| 08:40:15 | [Saint] | And config is *reaaaaaaaaally* non-obvious the way it just sits there waiting on a blank prompt. |
| 08:41:22 | [Saint] | http://pastebin.com/MRqz6abC <−−- there we go, it let me configure it. |
| 08:41:36 | [Saint] | How the build turns out may be a different story altogether. |
| 08:43:50 | wodz | It accepts the value BUT DEBUG define is not set. It is possible to build sdlapp in DEBUG mode and this seems to work |
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| 08:47:20 | wodz | Yeah I am 100% sure DEBUG in sim simply doesn't work. Now the question if this is intended |
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| 09:10:40 | kugel | wodz: sim and DEBUG should work together |
| 09:10:53 | kugel | in fact, originally DEBUG should be automatically defined for SIM |
| 09:11:00 | kugel | i think some commit broke that |
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| 09:27:44 | JdGordon | any complaints with hardcoding the current usb screen layout into the default sbs? |
| 09:28:52 | JdGordon | just needs a _inbuilt__usblogo_ for the %xl tag |
| 09:32:04 | JdGordon | and new tags for the HID mode and keyboard name |
| 09:34:45 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 09:35:34 | kugel | JdGordon: yes, let's not do this yet. i would like to stabilize things first |
| 09:36:14 | kugel | we don't even know for sure whether USB still causes random corruption |
| 09:39:23 | JdGordon | well, either way, if the sbs is being enabled there is no harm doing it |
| 09:39:41 | JdGordon | I really dont like the viewport_theme_stuff anymore |
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| 10:00 |
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| 10:20:15 | wodz | kugel: buflib integrity checks went in. Thanks for support. |
| 10:20:24 | gevaerts | kugel, JdGordon: right now the USB code has no "safe to eject" detection. Last time I tried adding that (back in 2008) I got the distinct impression that various devices and OSes handle this differently, and I couldn't get it to work |
| 10:20:55 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 10:22:24 | wodz | gevaerts: Yes, that is not standardized. However I'd expect most recentish OSes do the right thing |
| 10:23:48 | gevaerts | What *is* the right thing? |
| 10:25:56 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 10:26:01 | pamaury | there isn't really a right thing to do, on most OS the primary goal of "safe to eject" is to flush buffers |
| 10:26:06 | wodz | gevaerts: I linked not so long ago thread from some embedded dev. forum about what is considered 'right way' and what OSes do |
| 10:26:15 | pamaury | once all data have been sent to the device, you are safe to eject |
| 10:27:06 | pamaury | of course there is the trick of the removable data so you somehow get informed of the state but what use would you make of it ? |
| 10:27:15 | pamaury | *removable media |
| 10:27:41 | wodz | pamaury: have you seen g#725 ? I am not entirely sure it will work as imx233 has slightly different crt0.S then anything else |
| 10:27:43 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #725 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/725 : imx233: fix app.lds to properly support INIT_ATTR by Marcin Bukat (changes/25/725/1) |
| 10:29:57 | wodz | Anyone feels like testing g#718 on irivers and/or iaudios? Or should I just commit and wait for complaints if any? |
| 10:29:58 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #718 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/718 : coldfire: Implement HAVE_INIT_ATTR magic by Marcin Bukat (changes/18/718/2) |
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| 10:42:57 | pamaury | wodz: yes I saw, I just didn't have time to touch rockbox stuff since last week end |
| 10:43:07 | pamaury | and it's not a priority :) |
| 10:43:30 | wodz | yeah |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:13:33 | copper | jesus |
| 11:13:50 | copper | my themes are getting downvoted again (0/10 and 1/10) |
| 11:14:15 | copper | not sure if someone's mad at me or if there is something terribly wrong with the themes, in which case I wish someone reported it |
| 11:14:40 | PurlingNayuki | G#726 fixes some translation in chinese-trad, please commit. |
| 11:14:42 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #726 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/726 : by Purling Nayuki (changes/26/726/1) |
| 11:15:38 | copper | http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=2035&target=sansafuzeplus |
| 11:15:42 | | Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 11:15:42 | copper | http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=2026&target=ipodvideo |
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| 11:17:21 | | Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) |
| 11:19:17 | PurlingNayuki | Don't worry I just voted it a 10 star |
| 11:19:22 | copper | and no-one ever fixed the rating of http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=10&target=ipodvideo |
| 11:19:29 | copper | PurlingNayuki: that's not the point |
| 11:20:16 | PurlingNayuki | What I'm trying to say is that there're always people don't like your theme |
| 11:20:31 | gevaerts | PurlingNayuki: in this case it goes further than that |
| 11:20:43 | PurlingNayuki | System errors? |
| 11:21:01 | copper | PurlingNayuki: someone cheated the system to downrate those themes with extremely low ratings that were out of bounds |
| 11:21:03 | gevaerts | For some unexplained reason, *someone* has been downvoting (some of?) copper's themes in creative ways |
| 11:21:33 | PurlingNayuki | Creative ways :( |
| 11:21:46 | gevaerts | Yes, negative values and things like that |
| 11:22:00 | copper | I also find it strange how quick "they" were to downrate my themes |
| 11:22:09 | copper | like they visit the site every day, or… they're here |
| 11:22:23 | PurlingNayuki | Can G726 be committed? |
| 11:22:24 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #726 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/726 : Fix chinese-trad translation by Purling Nayuki (changes/26/726/1) |
| 11:22:49 | PurlingNayuki | Any IP address check or other limit when getting rates? |
| 11:23:00 | gevaerts | The bug that allowed negative ratings should be fixed now, but we should still reset the ratings for the affected themes. I'm not *entirely* sure how to see which ones those are though, although "all of copper's themes" is probably a good start |
| 11:23:25 | copper | my ratings were reset when I updated all my themes a couple days ago |
| 11:23:25 | gevaerts | I don't want to reset *all* ratings, because we tend to get lots of angry theme designers if we do that |
| 11:23:30 | gevaerts | Ah, ok |
| 11:24:00 | copper | but "the guy" is at it again |
| 11:24:05 | copper | not sure what he wants |
| 11:24:14 | PurlingNayuki | copper: BTW can you port this to clipzip? |
| 11:24:16 | copper | would this be the forum to report theme issues? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/board,24.0.html |
| 11:24:33 | copper | PurlingNayuki: someone else could do it |
| 11:25:10 | PurlingNayuki | I was just... being lazy |
| 11:25:53 | gevaerts | copper: yes |
| 11:26:03 | copper | yay for unhelpful thread titles: "Themes don't seem to be working." |
| 11:26:48 | copper | anyway, nothing there about my themes |
| 11:27:38 | copper | oh well |
| 11:27:50 | copper | I guess someone hates my guts |
| 11:27:54 | copper | let them downrate |
| 11:27:59 | copper | who cares |
| 11:29:01 | PurlingNayuki | And, I think G#412 is also good to commit |
| 11:29:02 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #412 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/412 : by Nick Peskett (changes/12/412/1) |
| 11:29:11 | gevaerts | copper: for the record, there's also no report about any of your themes on the "admin" section (i.e. nobody clicked on "report theme") |
| 11:29:29 | gevaerts | I suspect we'll need to add some logging to the rating code |
| 11:31:02 | copper | yeah that's all I should care about: if there's a bug in my themes, that needs to be fixed |
| 11:33:55 | copper | but if no-one reports them… |
| 11:36:17 | copper | PurlingNayuki: the Clip Zip is so tiny, I would hardly know what to do |
| 11:36:52 | pixelma | about the "ok to remove" for USB earlier, my impression was that there isn't a standardised way. E.g. the cowon loader of my M5 is able to show the notice when on XP but not on Windows 7 |
| 11:40:04 | wodz | pixelma: when you are around - could you test g#718 on one of your coldfires please? |
| 11:40:06 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #718 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/718 : by Marcin Bukat (changes/18/718/2) |
| 11:42:38 | pixelma | I only have one ;) Let's see |
| 11:43:33 | PurlingNayuki | I Just sold my codefire :( |
| 11:51:58 | pixelma | wodz: could you compile a test build for me? That would be an advanced build for the M5 with radio mod. Otherwise I think I won't have time for this before the weekend |
| 11:52:57 | wodz | ok, I'll do the build |
| 12:00 |
| 12:05:26 | [Saint] | copper: ...just a thought, but, have you considered that the same person(s?) may be upvoting their own themes in the same ridiculous fashion? |
| 12:05:55 | copper | yes, that has crossed my mind |
| 12:06:00 | [Saint] | Look for some themes with suspiciously high ratings (in the same device class, as I assume this is "competition"), and low download counts. |
| 12:06:25 | copper | I'm not sure that's a foolproof metric |
| 12:06:36 | [Saint] | Oh, definitely not. |
| 12:06:38 | copper | downloading and rating are two completely different behaviors |
| 12:06:53 | [Saint] | I make two assumptions, which are /likely, but not foolproof: |
| 12:07:06 | copper | if a theme is polarizing, it can attract lots of high ratings while getting comparatively fewer downloads |
| 12:07:11 | [Saint] | 1 - the author is maintaining a competing theme actively, look for recent themes. |
| 12:07:23 | [Saint] | 2 - the author won;t be able to resist upvoting their own shit |
| 12:08:26 | [Saint] | From that, however flawed it may be, it may be possible to produce a few likely candidates. |
| 12:09:08 | [Saint] | ...TBH, I really wish I could match the IP that issued the rating against the form user ID they almost certainly have, and then ban them. |
| 12:09:21 | [Saint] | Because, frankly, this type of shit is terrible. |
| 12:09:38 | [Saint] | s/form user/forum user/ |
| 12:10:21 | copper | the weird thing is: it's not all my themes that get aggressively downrated |
| 12:10:29 | copper | my name is shown on all of them |
| 12:11:13 | copper | so maybe it's just someone who really doesn't like the one or two themes, or didn't manage to make them work on their setup, or something like that |
| 12:11:13 | [Saint] | ...huh. |
| 12:11:32 | copper | or it's someone just messing with me |
| 12:12:22 | [Saint] | I sincerely doubt its personal. |
| 12:12:34 | [Saint] | Well, anywhere past "that guy makes a theme". |
| 12:12:45 | copper | see: http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1891&target=sansafuzeplus |
| 12:12:49 | [Saint] | (or several, as it were) |
| 12:12:55 | copper | http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1890&target=ipodvideo |
| 12:13:14 | copper | both highly rated, no downrating that I can see |
| 12:13:43 | copper | at this point I just want to know if there is something terribly wrong with the Googley themes |
| 12:14:00 | copper | some use case that I won't run again because my usage is completely different |
| 12:14:07 | [Saint] | Its really not hard to associate your name with your various other handles, and you don't get any abuse via any Rb channels (mailing list, forums, IRC, etc.) do you? |
| 12:14:09 | copper | s/again/into/ |
| 12:14:28 | copper | [Saint]: I did on IRC |
| 12:14:42 | [Saint] | Hmmm. |
| 12:15:05 | copper | and my point was, the name showing on my Googley theme is the same as the one showing on my other themes |
| 12:15:18 | copper | so they could have downrated my other themes, but they didn't |
| 12:15:27 | [Saint] | I would hate to think that anyone in this community is that much of a dick. |
| 12:15:31 | [Saint] | But its always possible. |
| 12:15:56 | copper | I should have added something in the theme description to encourage users to report theme issues |
| 12:16:04 | [Saint] | Its well and good to just not like somebody. Can't get on with everyone. But...this is silly. |
| 12:16:21 | [Saint] | I sincerely hope its not strictly personal. |
| 12:16:28 | copper | because as it is now, I'm not sure every theme users knows how to report theme issues |
| 12:16:35 | copper | or where |
| 12:17:10 | [Saint] | That's largely due to the fact that no such place exists, I guess. |
| 12:17:44 | [Saint] | I would recommend creating a forum thread, for all Googly variants, or possibly all your themes, period. ANd directing users to report issues there. |
| 12:17:44 | copper | gevaerts: I noticed only now that the report form isn't just for copyright issues, but also "does not work" issues |
| 12:18:22 | copper | it's way down the page though, maybe users don't even see it |
| 12:18:31 | [Saint] | I'm not sure that's useful to authors, though. |
| 12:18:40 | [Saint] | "does not work" is kinda...vague. |
| 12:19:03 | [Saint] | (and you wouldn't see it anyway, I don't think) |
| 12:19:03 | copper | a rating of 0 is definitely a "does not work" issue :P |
| 12:19:26 | copper | I know, I'm just replying to gevaerts who mentionned that there were no such reports for my thems |
| 12:19:29 | copper | themes* |
| 12:19:32 | [Saint] | No. Its a "ratings are quite obviously broken, and users are assholes, or at least one is" issue. :) |
| 12:19:47 | [Saint] | Well, gevaerts is technically correct. |
| 12:20:02 | [Saint] | That "does not work" is of absolutely no use to you for this purpose. |
| 12:20:11 | [Saint] | Nor would you see it if anyone clicked it (I think). |
| 12:20:59 | copper | but surely someone here would have told me |
| 12:21:21 | [Saint] | If it was one of a few select people, maybe. |
| 12:21:33 | [Saint] | It usually just gets hidden, and you'll get an email. |
| 12:21:58 | [Saint] | A very nonspecific one, I believe, just saying what happened, and not why. |
| 12:23:05 | | Join Strife89|lappy [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-234-151.mcn.bellsouth.net) |
| 12:24:34 | [Saint] | I think there's only a very limited number of people that would be able to connect your real name and handle immediately. |
| 12:25:18 | copper | what's your point? |
| 12:25:18 | [Saint] | You would most certainly find out if your theme was removed. But I'm not sure how personal it would be. |
| 12:25:58 | copper | sorry I don't understand what my nick and real name have to do with it? |
| 12:26:16 | | Quit Strife1989 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 12:26:56 | [Saint] | Sorry. When you said you assumed someone would tell you about it, I thought you meant perhaps seperately from the action being taken. |
| 12:27:06 | [Saint] | Like a "Hey, copper, just so you know...this happened" |
| 12:27:20 | copper | no I meant someone would tell me if my theme got a report from the report from |
| 12:27:23 | [Saint] | As opposed to an email one day telling you a theme was removed because it fails to parse or whatever. |
| 12:27:28 | copper | ah ok |
| 12:27:59 | [Saint] | Sorry. I messed that up. Yes. You would be notified. |
| 12:28:36 | gevaerts | Not automatically |
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| 12:28:47 | [Saint] | No. |
| 12:29:02 | [Saint] | Eeek. I thought I said that. Gah. |
| 12:30:04 | ildarion | Hey ! |
| 12:30:21 | [Saint] | When I was still serious about maintaining themes, my tactic was to use a forum thread in the theme section to both promote the theme(s) and facilitate user feedback. |
| 12:30:29 | [Saint] | You should probably consider this. |
| 12:30:40 | [Saint] | But I relize its a PITA to update `20 themes. |
| 12:30:51 | [Saint] | especially when its not a functional change. |
| 12:30:59 | copper | actually I've done that on ABI |
| 12:31:31 | copper | that's where I'm active, that's where people know me, and that's where DAP users hang out |
| 12:31:51 | copper | but, there is no link to that thread in my theme descriptions |
| 12:32:10 | [Saint] | Right. But then bug reports go there - and you become the middle-man for passing bug reports between ABI and us. |
| 12:32:19 | [Saint] | Further fragmenting the userbase. |
| 12:32:41 | copper | Meh. |
| 12:32:55 | * | [Saint] isn;t particularly fond of Rockbox development stuff ending up in ABI, but understands why it happens. |
| 12:33:25 | [Saint] | The main problem is that we can't fight disinformation effectively. |
| 12:33:36 | copper | I understand |
| 12:33:53 | [Saint] | And people start to think of it as an official source, and can't tell between binaries from Jow Random there, and official ones from "us". |
| 12:34:17 | copper | yeah I remember the iPod Classic builds shenanigans on Head-Fi |
| 12:34:43 | [Saint] | But there are a few of us that hang out in both camps, like yourself, and saratoga, and soap(?), that do a great job pointing users here from there when necessary. |
| 12:34:52 | [Saint] | But they can't be everywhere at once. Sadly. |
| 12:36:31 | copper | I really wish I could upload my *-All.zip archives on the theme site |
| 12:36:56 | ildarion | Can I ask for little advice about sansa fuze + ? |
| 12:37:08 | copper | not only is updating 14 themes annoying and time consuming, it also takes up a lot of real estate on the theme site |
| 12:37:10 | [Saint] | I _think_ Ben Brown, or Alex Mayer did some preliminary work in that regard. |
| 12:37:16 | [Saint] | It was definitely on the ToDo. |
| 12:37:25 | [Saint] | (its a very sane thing to expect) |
| 12:37:40 | [Saint] | ildarion: You certainly can. |
| 12:37:41 | copper | ildarion: go ahead and ask your question |
| 12:38:46 | [Saint] | copper: It likely wouldn't be too hard to parse the .zip file for "sub .zip" files, and treat those as separate uploads. |
| 12:39:14 | [Saint] | But in that case everything would need to share the same name, and description (well, not really, but it would be easier). |
| 12:39:17 | copper | that wouldn't allow for different theme descriptions |
| 12:39:34 | copper | my themes are really just one meta-theme |
| 12:39:44 | copper | different colors for different tastes |
| 12:40:47 | [Saint] | It would be bloody nice if you could just select the primary color with a color picker widget plugin thingo, and have a single theme. |
| 12:41:01 | copper | yeah I've thought about that too |
| 12:41:01 | [Saint] | Or if it adapted according to the foreground color set. |
| 12:41:13 | [Saint] | (and set a different font color via hardcoding in the theme) |
| 12:41:26 | ildarion | Ok, so my sansa Fuze + is deap corrumpt, I read i can fix this with the "Recovery mode ", I search the software tool for acces to the device in "ROM Recovery": |
| 12:41:52 | copper | but the color picker allows for setting RGB colors |
| 12:41:54 | [Saint] | like, if the fg color == <specifi value>; load <set_of_colored_images> |
| 12:41:58 | copper | too many combinations |
| 12:42:02 | [Saint] | *specific |
| 12:42:27 | [Saint] | That would make for one *massive* theme, though. |
| 12:42:33 | [Saint] | ...but it sure would be a cool idea. |
| 12:42:42 | [Saint] | (and technically possible, if I'm not mistaken) |
| 12:43:17 | copper | not really practical |
| 12:43:40 | copper | the simplest way is really just selecting a different .cfg file, which is how it is now |
| 12:44:05 | copper | a "smart" meta theme would only increase the complexity of the markup |
| 12:44:23 | [Saint] | Dramatically so. |
| 12:44:33 | [Saint] | ...but I like fun things like that. :) |
| 12:44:38 | copper | eh |
| 12:44:50 | copper | ildarion: what do you mean by "deap corrumpt"? |
| 12:44:52 | wodz | ildarion: You need to catch pamaury |
| 12:46:45 | ildarion | copper, i formated, and the OF is corrupt, impossible to boot on him : "Database error please format the device !", "Sansa Will now shutdown." |
| 12:47:07 | ildarion | So impossible to install a fresh bootloader |
| 12:50:45 | ildarion | I want to try this first http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/Main/SansaFuzePlus#Recovery_mode |
| 12:50:56 | [Saint] | copper: getting pretty out there now...you only have a few, solid colored elements that differ in each "Googly", no? What if we generated those colors using viewport background colors, using an overlay with a negative transparent cutout section to provide icons? |
| 12:51:12 | [Saint] | Then Googly could be any valid RGB combo. |
| 12:52:09 | [Saint] | We can abuse draw order by drawing directly into the backdrop buffer, then drawing an overlay on top with a transparent relif section to provide colored icons. |
| 12:52:47 | [Saint] | <−− Muhfuggin' theme-philosiphising-ninja right here, yo |
| 12:53:02 | copper | there's no alpha channel support, is there? |
| 12:53:13 | [Saint] | Indeed there is. |
| 12:53:46 | copper | actual alpha channel support, not just transparency? |
| 12:53:59 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 12:54:44 | [Saint] | see, for instance, stock color iconset. |
| 12:55:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:55:47 | * | [Saint] wishes to ad that he has no idea how feasible relying on draw order may be for certain operations, but the idea sure sounds bad ass. |
| 12:56:11 | [Saint] | *abuse of draw oder that doesn't technically exist |
| 12:58:29 | [Saint] | PS: I apologize in advance, profusely, for any crazy theme related pursuits this conversation may or may not cause. :) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:19 | copper | uugh |
| 13:01:32 | copper | since when does Rockbox support 32 bit BMP with alpha channel? |
| 13:01:49 | | Quit Zagor (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 13:01:57 | [Saint] | Oooohhhh...2 or 3 years now I think. |
| 13:02:03 | copper | geez |
| 13:02:10 | [Saint] | Perhaps closer to 2? I forget. |
| 13:02:27 | [Saint] | "a while" covers it. |
| 13:02:32 | copper | there's the matter of font color though |
| 13:03:08 | [Saint] | that's FG, we would only be dealing in BG. |
| 13:03:14 | ildarion | pamaury is regularly online or is better to send him a mail ? |
| 13:03:19 | copper | it's white with an alpha channel of 80% on my themes |
| 13:03:31 | [Saint] | Ooooh. Right. |
| 13:03:52 | wodz | ildarion: he is regular online albeit he is very busy |
| 13:04:01 | copper | straight up #ffffff would pop too much |
| 13:04:08 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 13:04:55 | copper | another problem is usability |
| 13:05:14 | copper | it would be difficult for users to use the color picker to set the theme color |
| 13:05:35 | copper | unless the theme color gets updated as the user changes values, in real time |
| 13:05:47 | [Saint] | If they set a bullshit value, too dark, or zero contrast with the font, things could get really fun. Yeah. |
| 13:06:13 | copper | and, I suspect a lot of users don't really want to have to search for the right color themselves |
| 13:06:23 | copper | they'd rather have a few "presets" to choose from |
| 13:06:25 | | Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 13:06:51 | [Saint] | Perhaps this type of theme is better as a philosophical excercise, but dammit, I sure am tempted to try it to see exactly how possible it is. |
| 13:08:30 | [Saint] | I am currently trying to get my head around a nice tabbed UI system with touchscreen (I have been for ages actually, its something I pick up from time to time), and that has been getting my little ROckbox attention time lately. |
| 13:10:02 | [Saint] | One of the problems I have is that I'm really not an artist. Not a digital one, at least. I can create the backbone of great things, but when it comes to giving them a face to greet the public, I spew forth shite. |
| 13:27:15 | pixelma | someone "stole" my theme idea... except I haven't talked about it yet |
| 13:28:01 | copper | eh? |
| 13:30:14 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 13:30:15 | [Saint] | pixelma: me? |
| 13:30:24 | [Saint] | Like, just now? |
| 13:31:13 | pixelma | yes and also " ;) " I also had the idea about a graphical theme adapting to the user's foreground and background colour settings. If you are philosophical we already have one that does just that - which is the fallback one |
| 13:32:04 | [Saint] | Oh, I knew you weren't being entirely serious. Don't worry. No smiley required. :) |
| 13:32:18 | copper | hey, we've ALL had the idea :P |
| 13:32:19 | [Saint] | If nothing else it proves that the idea isn't entirely insane. |
| 13:32:30 | [Saint] | Or, we're both insane... |
| 13:32:34 | [Saint] | ;) |
| 13:32:48 | copper | you don't think I thought of that 6 months ago when doing my theme variants? :P |
| 13:33:12 | [Saint] | It doesn't matter. No one will believe you now. :P |
| 13:33:17 | copper | meeeh |
| 13:34:53 | copper | I thought about it, but didn't get into implementing it, because I believed what I still believe: it's not very practical |
| 13:35:20 | [Saint] | On the contrary. I believe its quite practical indeed. |
| 13:36:48 | [Saint] | I can foresee several ways foreground, background, and the use of relief cutting "negative" overlays could be (ab)used to create a striking effect. |
| 13:38:27 | [Saint] | I would be happy to help you brainstorm and generally fart around on such an experiment. |
| 13:40:01 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@193.174.67.16) |
| 13:40:01 | | Quit kugel (Changing host) |
| 13:40:01 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 13:40:45 | [Saint] | kugel: toehser1 found some segfault shennanigans you might be vaguely interested in |
| 13:40:55 | [Saint] | it seems to gel with your recent work |
| 13:41:47 | [Saint] | (approximately 14 hours ago in the logs) |
| 13:41:54 | copper | I meant from a user's point of view |
| 13:42:25 | kugel | look at git log: :-) |
| 13:43:46 | kugel | fwiw, we could define a magic color for bmps that means use the foreground color |
| 13:44:45 | kugel | we already support that for non-alpha bitmaps actually volute it's not yet implemented for those with alpha channel |
| 13:44:46 | copper | what about text alpha channel |
| 13:45:15 | kugel | ??? |
| 13:45:22 | [Saint] | a what now? |
| 13:46:46 | pixelma | we already had that for a while and that was "magic" cyan |
| 13:47:20 | [Saint] | for text? |
| 13:47:34 | pixelma | magic colour for BMPs which meant "foreground" |
| 13:47:41 | [Saint] | Ah. Right. Yes. |
| 13:48:06 | pixelma | didn't work with alpha channel last I tried though :P |
| 13:48:26 | pixelma | that's been a while, I admit |
| 13:48:38 | [Saint] | kugel just said that a few minutes ago. :) |
| 13:49:10 | pixelma | true, should have read that up to the end |
| 13:49:43 | wodz | pixelma: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx1OY3AHjewUQmpud0VucTN5TnM/edit?usp=sharing <- M5 build with FM mod |
| 13:49:47 | copper | text alpha channel, like CSS: RGBA |
| 13:49:55 | copper | red, green, blue, alpha |
| 13:50:12 | copper | e.g. "white with 80% transparency" |
| 13:51:05 | [Saint] | that is possible, in theory. |
| 13:51:14 | [Saint] | perhaps even trivial. |
| 13:51:33 | copper | I'm sure it's possible, I'm asking if it's already implemented ;) |
| 13:51:59 | [Saint] | If it was, I wouldn;t be talking about the possibility. :) |
| 13:52:13 | kugel | what are you asking for? it confuses me that you say text |
| 13:53:18 | copper | text |
| 13:53:25 | copper | metadata |
| 13:53:57 | pixelma | wouldn't that already be possibly if you created a font file that way? |
| 13:54:01 | copper | %Vf(ffffff,80) |
| 13:55:27 | PurlingNayuki | I was just looking at Onda VX898s :( |
| 13:55:30 | kugel | you want text to be, say, 50% transparent? |
| 13:55:34 | [Saint] | pixelma: I imagine convttf would strip anyhting it didn't understand out. |
| 13:55:36 | copper | yup |
| 13:57:11 | kugel | well, that's certainly possible, though it doesn't seem useful to me |
| 13:57:28 | copper | [Saint]: how do you draw a background rectangle with text on top of it? %VB() %dr()? |
| 13:57:44 | kugel | yes you could potentially craft fonts this way but it'snot ideal |
| 13:57:57 | copper | kugel: I would need it for my themes if I made them use fg and bg colors |
| 13:58:19 | kugel | why that? |
| 13:58:22 | [Saint] | copper: technically speaking, it wouldn;t /need/ to be drawn to the backdrop buffer. |
| 13:58:34 | [Saint] | The text would just need to come after the rectangle. |
| 13:58:49 | copper | kugel: because my top bar text isn't 100% white, it's 80% white |
| 13:58:51 | [Saint] | draw order is dictated by order parsed. |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:17 | copper | kugel: in order to get the right text color, I need alpha channel support, or else I need to set a custom text color that goes with the background color |
| 14:00:28 | kugel | but there is no text that's 80% |
| 14:00:36 | copper | with the second solution, it's not possible to have the user set their own fg and bg colors |
| 14:00:50 | copper | kugel: yes there is |
| 14:01:00 | copper | the volume and battery indicators |
| 14:01:30 | copper | in the top bar |
| 14:01:31 | kugel | how do you make it 80%? using suitable vp colors? |
| 14:01:37 | copper | https://outpost.fr/rockbox/Googley-Classic-large.png |
| 14:01:40 | copper | yes |
| 14:01:51 | copper | wait, what's vp |
| 14:02:06 | kugel | viewport |
| 14:02:25 | copper | yes |
| 14:02:49 | copper | I flaten my Gimp image and pick the resulting color, and use that color with %Vf() in my markup |
| 14:03:18 | copper | which is the equivalent of (white, 80%) but as RGB, without an alpha channel |
| 14:03:34 | copper | against the background color |
| 14:03:56 | kugel | i see |
| 14:03:59 | copper | a light shade of gray wouldn't really work |
| 14:04:05 | copper | visually speaking |
| 14:04:19 | copper | the nuance is slight, but it does make a difference |
| 14:04:30 | copper | (between 80% white and 100% white, I mean) |
| 14:04:57 | copper | anyway, there's still the issue for users to find the right color for them |
| 14:05:07 | copper | it's difficult enough on a real PC with The GIMP or Photoshop |
| 14:05:42 | [Saint] | the fg/bg color pickers have a realtime view. |
| 14:07:07 | copper | ok, it's similarly difficult then :P |
| 14:07:11 | kugel | there are other problems too, like gradients that can look shit because images aren't dithered (unlike the backdrop) |
| 14:07:52 | copper | one of the points of a "product" is to make sensible choices |
| 14:08:19 | [Saint] | Lucky we're not making a product then. ;) |
| 14:08:25 | copper | my themes are products |
| 14:08:43 | copper | regardless of what you think Rockbox is ;) |
| 14:09:19 | wodz | a box which rocks obviously |
| 14:09:55 | copper | but, alpha channel support could make my themes lighter on bitmaps, and perhaps more easily modifiable (as far as colors go) |
| 14:10:18 | copper | since I'm not using gradiants or non-rectangular shapes |
| 14:10:22 | wodz | pixelma: any estimated timeframe for the test on M5? |
| 14:10:24 | [Saint] | wodz: Hmmm, I thought it was...what was it, "a bag of shit"? |
| 14:10:25 | [Saint] | :) |
| 14:10:25 | copper | gradients* |
| 14:10:56 | wodz | [Saint]: sounds like, yes :-P |
| 14:11:23 | [Saint] | That's something we can all be proud of. :D |
| 14:14:52 | toehser1 | Personally, I would rather have a 'basic theme language' (the existing WPS format) and an 'advanced theme language' (based on Lua) with the ability to add new settings to a user settings menu and to implement more advanced things - in concept - to allow 'meta-themes' that can work for many targets or color choices... in concept... But given that my themes already just 'use the system colors', I don't care that much, and it would be a lot of work. |
| 14:15:08 | toehser1 | Did I see something implying the bug I found is already fixed? |
| 14:17:39 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 14:20:04 | | Join cmhobbs [0] (~cmhobbs@fsf/member/cmhobbs) |
| 14:23:48 | [Saint] | toehser1: you did. |
| 14:26:24 | copper | [Saint]: I can't display a rectangle below text |
| 14:26:38 | PurlingNayuki | Cool, I just noticed that Clip Zip can now mount when being connected to compter |
| 14:26:43 | PurlingNayuki | *computer |
| 14:26:53 | copper | can't make it work: either the rectangle doesn't show, or nothing shows |
| 14:27:07 | [Saint] | Bugger. |
| 14:27:48 | [Saint] | I'm about 80% certain that /used/ to work. |
| 14:29:02 | copper | I tried putting the rectangle viewport before and after the text viewports |
| 14:30:01 | [Saint] | Ooooohhhh, fuck, of course. |
| 14:30:15 | [Saint] | the text viewport is bringing its own BG to the party. |
| 14:30:47 | [Saint] | And there's no way I'm aware of to specify a transparent viewport BG. |
| 14:31:10 | | Quit Rower (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 14:31:22 | [Saint] | Dammit. That was dense of me. ANd rather short sighted. |
| 14:32:27 | [Saint] | Oh, well, there *is* a way to specify a transparent viewport BG, but its only when there's a fullscreen backdrop loaded. |
| 14:32:45 | [Saint] | And its not on an individual basis. Its all of 'em. |
| 14:32:48 | copper | that's the case with my themes |
| 14:33:08 | copper | they all have a fullscreen backdrop |
| 14:33:13 | [Saint] | Oh? There is a fullscreen backdrop? Hmmm. |
| 14:33:35 | [Saint] | Then yeah. As far as I'm aware this /should/ work. |
| 14:33:53 | copper | %Vb(colour)? |
| 14:34:14 | copper | %Vb(ff00ff)? |
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| 14:34:31 | | Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 14:34:45 | kugel | %dr? |
| 14:34:46 | | Join nick_p [0] (~nick@82-69-105-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 14:35:22 | [Saint] | No, megenta isn't a "magic" color for viewport foreground/background. |
| 14:35:34 | [Saint] | Just bitmaps. |
| 14:36:18 | copper | uh, I can't even make %Vb() work at all |
| 14:36:49 | nick_p | PurlingNayuki: If you've tested G#412, please update it with your findings |
| 14:36:50 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #412 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/412 : Option to use the lighter hinting algorithm (FT_LOAD_TARGET_LIGHT). by Nick Peskett (changes/12/412/1) |
| 14:36:53 | [Saint] | You need to specify a fullscreen viewport before any other viewport declarations. |
| 14:37:14 | | Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 14:37:30 | PurlingNayuki | nick_p: What findings? |
| 14:37:40 | PurlingNayuki | I just find it works. |
| 14:38:09 | [Saint] | "I found it works" ;p |
| 14:38:33 | nick_p | PurlingNayuki: Well that'd be good in there, you don't have to be a dev to review patches |
| 14:38:35 | kugel | copper: %Vb works only without backdrop |
| 14:38:55 | PurlingNayuki | ...Oops |
| 14:39:06 | [Saint] | Ah, crapballs. |
| 14:39:20 | [Saint] | I confused %Vb with the "draw to backdrop buffer" tag. |
| 14:39:43 | PurlingNayuki | Light hinting is useful for small size asian characters so I think that will be useful. |
| 14:40:43 | PurlingNayuki | That works, just means It's fine with me to commit this so more people can get to know it |
| 14:40:54 | | Join amayer [0] (~amayer@mail.weberadvertising.com) |
| 14:44:15 | nick_p | PurlingNayuki: I meant, insted of commenting here, review the patch and put your comments there, for posterity ;) |
| 14:45:06 | | Join pretty_function [0] (~sigBART@123.252.214.90) |
| 14:45:19 | PurlingNayuki | I wasn't on computer so I didn't;-) |
| 14:47:06 | kugel | nick_p: do you have a before-after pic? |
| 14:47:08 | PurlingNayuki | Don't worry I know how to gerrit;-) |
| 14:48:38 | nick_p | kugel: Not at hand, but I suppose I could put one together a bit later... |
| 14:52:59 | copper | kugel: ugh, is that written anywhere? |
| 14:54:42 | copper | also, "Viewports cannot be layered transparently over one another. Subsequent viewports will be drawn over any other viewports already drawn onto that area of the screen." |
| 14:55:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:55:34 | copper | so that's that |
| 14:56:26 | toehser1 | What are all the SIGUSR1s that I have to handle nostop? |
| 14:56:32 | copper | forget about alpha channel, there's not even basic support for transparent layering |
| 14:57:35 | toehser1 | Haven't managed to segfault it again so far. Seems fixed. I'll have to find another way to break it :) |
| 15:00 |
| 15:08:29 | nick_p | kugel: http://imagebin.org/287018 |
| 15:10:10 | kugel | it looks more blurry to me |
| 15:10:49 | nick_p | I was expecting bigger, not blurry! |
| 15:10:55 | kugel | and obviously more space between characters but there are already options to achieve that |
| 15:11:25 | nick_p | Whatever, works for me |
| 15:11:30 | PurlingNayuki | And me |
| 15:12:19 | copper | kerning is a bigger problem IMO |
| 15:12:37 | kugel | the character spacing is horrible in the before case but apart from that i find the before case better |
| 15:14:12 | nick_p | No-one's forcing you to add the -L option when you convert fonts, if you don't you get the results you would have without the patch applied |
| 15:14:21 | kugel | the before isn't really bold, as intended, perhaps that's the problem |
| 15:15:11 | kugel | considering it should be bold the after is indeed better |
| 15:15:21 | nick_p | I prefer more anti-aliasing, which the lighter hinter algorithm seems to provide... |
| 15:15:40 | [Saint] | [02:54:44] <copper> also, "Viewports cannot be layered transparently over one another. Subsequent viewports will be drawn over any other viewports already drawn onto that area of the screen." |
| 15:15:46 | [Saint] | tha's actually bullshit. |
| 15:16:35 | [Saint] | Layering is certainly possible. Unpredictable, but possible. |
| 15:17:23 | [Saint] | ...well, even that's not true. |
| 15:17:30 | [Saint] | Its /reasonably/ predictable. |
| 15:17:43 | wodz | kugel: do you know the revision you are certain DEBUG was possible in SIM build? |
| 15:18:56 | copper | [Saint]: feex eet! |
| 15:19:13 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 15:22:28 | kugel | wodz: i tried this combo this morning and it worked |
| 15:22:48 | kugel | just select a,s,d in configure |
| 15:23:06 | pixelma | hmm, would be cool if there was a way to use a third (or even fourth) user selectable colour out of the line selector colours. While %St(line selector start color) would give me the value there doesn't seem to be a way to use that in viewport settings (a .wps with %St there seems to get rejected, guess it's not allowed to have other theme tags in %Vf etc.) |
| 15:24:09 | | Quit kugel (Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org) |
| 15:24:15 | | Join kugel_ [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 15:28:30 | | Quit pretty_function (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:30:09 | | Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) |
| 15:48:54 | [Saint] | No, the %V* tags can't be used that way unfortunately. |
| 15:59:33 | | Join mudlord [0] (~mudlord@www.nowhere-else.org) |
| 16:00 |
| 16:01:33 | mudlord | saratoga: read your response in the logs |
| 16:01:46 | mudlord | which is odd, because otherwise SID won't be a codec |
| 16:01:53 | mudlord | unless I am missing something |
| 16:03:23 | mudlord | same with the current MOD codec |
| 16:07:09 | | Join pretty_function [0] (~sigBART@123.252.214.90) |
| 16:08:44 | toehser1 | For both multi-color-theme themes and multi-target themes, isn't what we want some separation of the markup from the styles? And, wouldn't it be nice to be able to apply author-created dynamic behavior? It seems that some analog could be made of wps(markup) wps(styles) wps(lua) the way a browser does html/css/javascript... A theme could have 50 'stylesheets', of which the user can pick from the ones that match the current target... The viewports are a |
| 16:10:17 | | Quit nick_p (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 16:20:03 | | Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:21:52 | | Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint) |
| 16:23:54 | | Quit ildarion (Quit: Page closed) |
| 16:24:16 | | Join ildarion [0] (4ef2d722@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.242.215.34) |
| 16:24:58 | ildarion | Hey pamaury ! Are you busy ? |
| 16:27:03 | | Quit Strife89|lappy (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 16:29:32 | pamaury | ildarion: ping, somewhat, I can follow a discussion |
| 16:35:14 | | Quit pretty_function (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:36:36 | ildarion | pamaury: When I ask for help, they told me to do with you. My Sansa Fuze + system is deep corrupt. I formated serveral times buts don't work, when I start on the OF, I get : "Database error please format the device !", "Sansa Will now shutdown.". So I can't reinstall with a good bootloader. I see some light here : http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/Main/SansaFuzePlus#Recovery_mode Where I can get the "tool" ? Idon't find it. |
| 16:38:04 | pamaury | ah the tool was renamed, it's known as sbload, in our trunk in utils/imxtools/sbtools |
| 16:38:30 | pamaury | however if you reformated and I still get errors I don't really know what else you could do |
| 16:38:40 | pamaury | maybe the internal storage is broken |
| 16:41:00 | pamaury | does the internal storage actually works ? Did you try to put some file on it, unplug, replug and check if the file is still there ? |
| 16:43:02 | ildarion | The problem appeared when I formatted Sansa to install over the "windows 7 installer utility" (I had no other usb key), using my backup of Rockbox, it works but not the OF |
| 16:43:22 | ildarion | So I don't think there are an hardware issue |
| 16:43:58 | pamaury | ah, it probably messed with the partition table |
| 16:44:22 | pamaury | do you have a Linux at hand ? |
| 16:45:00 | mudlord | speaking of bugs, i noticed a heisenbug the other day with my sansa clip zip on a git revision of rockbox |
| 16:45:28 | mudlord | unable to reproduce it again, but it caused a lockup |
| 16:45:52 | mudlord | i was browsing the database, which had plenty of entries, and then it locked up |
| 16:45:53 | mudlord | :/ |
| 16:46:55 | pamaury | mudlord: if you don't have any more info or a way to reproduce it, it's pretty much useless |
| 16:47:39 | mudlord | :< |
| 16:47:41 | mudlord | yeah |
| 16:47:46 | mudlord | as I said, heisenbug |
| 16:47:58 | mudlord | :( |
| 16:48:46 | toehser1 | There was a lockup-causing issue fixed in the last few days, so, maybe it was that one. |
| 16:49:09 | mudlord | ah |
| 16:49:23 | mudlord | so maybe its time to update again :) |
| 16:49:49 | ildarion | pamaury: I have an old laptop on lubuntu |
| 16:51:00 | pamaury | ildarion: could you plug your device and give me the output of dmesg ? |
| 16:51:42 | pamaury | ildarion: and could you do so both with Rockbox USB mode and Sansa OF USB mode ? |
| 16:54:12 | toehser1 | Old lubuntu laptop is fine, it will have things like fdisk and mkdosfs and lsscsi and lsusb. |
| 16:55:11 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:59:42 | ildarion | I think i was doing the good command, what do you exatly in the results ? |
| 16:59:58 | ildarion | exatly want* |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:00 | pamaury | ildarion: it's an issue of logical sector size |
| 17:00:13 | pamaury | I think, so I want to check that |
| 17:00:45 | | Quit fragilematter (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 17:02:47 | | Join Baranko [0] (~anleal@hal9000.kgts.ru) |
| 17:02:55 | Baranko | hi |
| 17:03:44 | Baranko | guys, maybe someone can explain some feelings on rockbox |
| 17:03:52 | Baranko | whlie switch tracks |
| 17:04:11 | Baranko | every new track on first swc i hear some sounds |
| 17:04:19 | Baranko | like mouse somewhere |
| 17:04:46 | Baranko | *swc |
| 17:04:50 | Baranko | *sec |
| 17:05:46 | Baranko | also you may hear this while moving pc mouse, and headphones connected to soundcards |
| 17:06:05 | Baranko | on original fw fpr clip+ it's almost none |
| 17:06:48 | Baranko | maybe there is some tip for missing first second on track? |
| 17:07:06 | Baranko | or this sounds just by design? |
| 17:07:40 | gevaerts | That shouldn't happen |
| 17:08:51 | Baranko | some guys on russian forums suggest that it's some interference with sd reader in sansa |
| 17:09:08 | Baranko | is there any workaround? |
| 17:09:27 | | Join ildarion_laptop [0] (4ef2d722@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.242.215.34) |
| 17:10:14 | Baranko | and i also made some tests with dev builds: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=43526.msg225382#msg225382 |
| 17:10:25 | Baranko | is there anything alse that i can do for project? |
| 17:10:33 | ildarion_laptop | On rockbox : 361.709151] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=0781, idProduct=74e1 [ 361.709162] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 [ 361.709168] usb 1-1: Product: Rockbox media player [ 361.709173] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: Rockbox.org [ 361.709178] usb 1-1: SerialNumber: 10000000100001B400002DCDF27F49B40 |
| 17:11:00 | pamaury | ildarion: pastebin please, I need the part about mass storage mostly |
| 17:11:04 | | Quit kugel_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 17:11:06 | pamaury | ildarion_laptop: ^ |
| 17:13:05 | PurlingNayuki | G#727. Good night guys :) |
| 17:13:06 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #727 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/727 : Fix incorrect language string reference in eq_menu.c by Purling Nayuki (changes/27/727/1) |
| 17:19:44 | ildarion_laptop | pamaury: on rockbox and ROM Recovery : http://pastebin.com/Mtj9SmLk |
| 17:26:16 | pamaury | ildarion_laptop: I don't need the ROM recovery but the Sansa OF USB mode (ie hold volume down when plugging) |
| 17:27:11 | | Quit ildarion_laptop (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 17:27:15 | pamaury | ildarion_laptop: don't you get more info ? the dmesg output is clearly missing some mass storage bits here |
| 17:27:55 | pamaury | ildarion: ^ |
| 17:28:29 | pamaury | you need to wait a bit once you plugged the device for mass storage to load |
| 17:28:52 | ildarion | my command is: dmesg | grep -i usb this is correct ? |
| 17:29:32 | pamaury | no, I need all parts, grep for usb is too strong |
| 17:30:07 | pamaury | when you plug a mass storage device, some part are logged by usb and some by other subsystems like scsi |
| 17:31:19 | toehser1 | Won't lsusb and lsscsi give you what you want without having to fish it out of the dmesg? |
| 17:31:29 | pamaury | I'm not so sure |
| 17:32:20 | pamaury | plus lsscsi is non standard |
| 17:32:40 | pamaury | whereas the logical sector size is printed by the kernel in dmesg |
| 17:35:11 | pamaury | ildarion: pastebin the whole dmesg output in doubt |
| 17:35:37 | ildarion | yeah, i just find the good command^^ |
| 17:37:19 | | Quit petur (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 17:37:56 | | Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) |
| 17:38:05 | | Quit Zagor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 17:41:50 | | Quit ildarion (Quit: Page closed) |
| 17:45:09 | | Join ildarion2 [0] (4ef2d722@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.242.215.34) |
| 17:51:04 | ildarion2 | pamaury: so on rockbox: http://pastebin.com/jyBRsgVU |
| 17:55:15 | ildarion2 | On sansa : http://pastebin.com/dlffxb4r |
| 17:56:15 | ildarion2 | I'm not sur the sansa plug really work |
| 17:56:24 | pixelma | wodz (logs): I wanted to have a look today in the evening or tomorrow. Is there anything specific I should try out? |
| 17:57:34 | | Join y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) |
| 17:58:18 | pamaury | ildarion2: are you sure it was sansa OF in the second log ? |
| 17:58:28 | pamaury | it seems like it's rockbox again |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:19 | pamaury | you need to hold volume down when plugging USB to boot into Sansa OF |
| 18:00:38 | ildarion2 | I know. I think on sansa plug doesn't work |
| 18:00:48 | pamaury | what does it do ? |
| 18:01:34 | ildarion2 | I need to keep puching volum down or i can releas it after few secs ? |
| 18:01:58 | pamaury | you need to keep for a few second |
| 18:02:30 | pamaury | to be clear, the procedure is: power down the device, hold volume down (device is still off), plug usb and keep holding volume down for a few seconds, then release |
| 18:03:25 | ildarion2 | when i do that, once volum down release, rockbox USB screen pop |
| 18:05:45 | pamaury | I see, that's annoying, the problem is the logical sector size here. I think there is a way to solve it by editing the disk by hand, but it's tricky. Otherwise one would need to convince the kernel to change the logical sector size |
| 18:11:48 | pamaury | ildarion2: maybe we can try something by hand, but you need to follow my instruction exactly |
| 18:11:59 | ildarion2 | Ok |
| 18:12:08 | pamaury | first, can you pastebin the output of fdisk (ask it to print the partition layout) |
| 18:12:10 | pamaury | ? |
| 18:12:55 | pamaury | and select sector unit ! |
| 18:13:05 | pamaury | ildarion2: ^ |
| 18:13:39 | ildarion2 | ok |
| 18:14:22 | pamaury | (I think sector is the default in most version of fdisk but we never know) |
| 18:21:00 | mudlord | oh, nice to see those usb bugs are being worked on :) |
| 18:22:35 | | Join pretty_function [0] (~sigBART@123.252.214.90) |
| 18:22:52 | | Quit Scromple (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:23:01 | | Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@161.43.73.67) |
| 18:24:19 | pamaury | mudlord: technically speaking these are not usb bugs, those are theme bugs ;) |
| 18:25:58 | pamaury | ildarion2: still here ? |
| 18:26:35 | ildarion2 | yes, I'm learning linux command in the smae time |
| 18:27:03 | | Quit Scromple (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:27:12 | ildarion2 | pamaury: http://pastebin.com/eghcx9zw |
| 18:27:12 | pamaury | I think in this case it's "fdisk" and then hit "p" |
| 18:27:16 | mudlord | Theme bugs causing crashes? xD |
| 18:27:22 | | Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@161.43.73.67) |
| 18:27:37 | pamaury | mudlord: yes, memory corruption |
| 18:27:47 | mudlord | Ah |
| 18:27:50 | mudlord | now that makes sense |
| 18:29:09 | pamaury | ildarion2: sorry, you need to specify the disk, which is probably *not* /dev/sda in this case, more likely /dev/sdb (check the output of dmesg). So run "fdisk /dev/sdb" |
| 18:30:11 | | Quit Scromple (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:30:40 | ildarion2 | Ok, and after tip P ? |
| 18:31:05 | pamaury | yes, and pastebin the output |
| 18:31:51 | | Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@161.43.73.67) |
| 18:33:11 | ildarion2 | pamaury: http://pastebin.com/0kyhh6kj |
| 18:34:30 | pamaury | looks weird, /dev/sdb is probably not the device, can you post the output of dmesg to check which drive is your device ? |
| 18:35:03 | | Quit krabador (Quit: Sto andando via) |
| 18:35:49 | ildarion2 | seem to be my device, 16GO is my sansa default memory |
| 18:36:13 | pamaury | ok, it has weird partition |
| 18:37:30 | pamaury | no wonder the OF doesn't work with this |
| 18:38:03 | pamaury | so now, run again "fdisk /dev/sdb" |
| 18:38:05 | | Part theaftermath ("Leaving") |
| 18:38:46 | ildarion2 | ok |
| 18:38:52 | pamaury | press "d" (for delete) |
| 18:39:00 | pamaury | it should ask for which partition, select "1" |
| 18:39:13 | ildarion2 | yes |
| 18:39:15 | pamaury | then print "p" again and pastebin the output (don't quit the tool !) |
| 18:40:37 | ildarion2 | http://pastebin.com/tnbincq9 |
| 18:42:47 | gevaerts | I think you need to clear the MBR first on that one. It's seen as a sun disklabel partition table, and that's not going to work |
| 18:43:30 | pamaury | yeah clearly, hit "o" |
| 18:44:02 | pamaury | (this will clear the table) |
| 18:44:09 | pamaury | then "n" (for new), then "p" (for primary) |
| 18:44:19 | pamaury | then "1" for first entry |
| 18:44:29 | pamaury | for the first sector, type "2048" |
| 18:44:48 | pamaury | for last sector just hit enter |
| 18:45:28 | pamaury | then hit "t" to change label, then "c" (for W95 FAT32 (LBA)) |
| 18:45:41 | pamaury | then hit "p" and pastebin the output |
| 18:46:40 | ildarion2 | label is the name ? (so no important) |
| 18:46:46 | gevaerts | No |
| 18:47:01 | gevaerts | It's the partition type. If that's wrong, expect problems |
| 18:47:39 | gevaerts | Well, linux won't care, but rockbox will, windows will, and the OF might |
| 18:48:32 | ildarion2 | So "t" => Code Hexa: "c",... |
| 18:48:50 | gevaerts | yes |
| 18:49:08 | | Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1) |
| 18:50:28 | ildarion2 | http://pastebin.com/zyzrva14 |
| 18:51:03 | pamaury | good, now type "w" to write and exit |
| 18:51:22 | | Join b0hoon [0] (~quassel@public-gprs562496.centertel.pl) |
| 18:52:21 | pamaury | ildarion2: then run "mkdos.fs /dev/sdb1" |
| 18:53:34 | mudlord | reinstalling rockbawx :3 |
| 18:53:44 | mudlord | updating to newest fw |
| 18:53:58 | mudlord | this theme fix sounds good |
| 18:54:07 | mudlord | and i found a workaround to my net problems |
| 18:54:15 | ildarion2 | after i was hit "w" i get this wierd answer http://pastebin.com/suppwvda |
| 18:54:22 | ildarion2 | Sorry this is in french |
| 18:54:37 | ildarion2 | this is a regular answer or ? |
| 18:54:50 | gevaerts | ildarion2: in that case, first unplug and replug |
| 18:55:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:55:28 | | Quit K1773R (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 18:55:29 | pamaury | yeah unplug and replug and only after run the mkdosfs command |
| 18:56:01 | | Quit AnLe (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 18:58:33 | pamaury | ildarion2: is it done ? |
| 18:58:55 | ildarion2 | "command mkdos.fs not find" maybe mkdosfr ? |
| 18:58:57 | | Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) |
| 18:59:09 | ildarion2 | mkdosfs* |
| 18:59:21 | pamaury | yeah there is no dot , sorry |
| 18:59:34 | | Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:01:03 | ildarion2 | seem to have been done |
| 19:01:30 | ildarion2 | it was supposed to do what ? |
| 19:01:33 | pamaury | ok, first thing first, can you try to unplug the device and boot the OF ? |
| 19:01:43 | ildarion2 | ok |
| 19:01:53 | pamaury | (normally you won't be able to run rockbox because it won't find the firmware) |
| 19:01:58 | | Join K1773R [0] (~K1773R@unaffiliated/k1773r) |
| 19:02:22 | ildarion2 | same issue |
| 19:02:38 | ildarion2 | "Database error please format the device !", "Sansa Will now shutdown." |
| 19:02:41 | pamaury | ok, replug in rockbox usb mode |
| 19:02:50 | pamaury | I was expecting the error but wanted to make sure |
| 19:03:05 | ildarion2 | ok |
| 19:03:14 | pamaury | is it plugged ? |
| 19:03:19 | ildarion2 | yes |
| 19:03:36 | pamaury | now for the weird stuff, run "fdisk -b 4096 /dev/sdb" |
| 19:04:17 | ildarion2 | ok |
| 19:04:33 | pamaury | then "d", then "n" (new) "p" (primary) "1"then "256" (first LBA) then just enter, then "t" then "c" then "p" and pastebin (don't quit) |
| 19:06:38 | ildarion2 | http://pastebin.com/rs3dvwid |
| 19:07:17 | pamaury | ok good |
| 19:07:21 | pamaury | hit "w" |
| 19:07:33 | pamaury | unplug the device, replug and pastebin the output of dmesg |
| 19:10:07 | | Join krabador_ [0] (~krabador@host98-81-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:10:38 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 19:10:52 | ildarion2 | http://pastebin.com/0a7q61ra |
| 19:13:06 | pamaury | hum, didn't work as expected, can you run "fdisk /dev/sdb", hit "p" and pastebin the output ? |
| 19:13:49 | | Quit mudlord (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 19:14:38 | ildarion2 | http://pastebin.com/8djyhyct |
| 19:15:46 | pamaury | the pastebin is *after* you replugged the device ? |
| 19:15:53 | pamaury | (I mean the dmesg one) |
| 19:15:53 | ildarion2 | no |
| 19:15:58 | ildarion2 | wait |
| 19:16:22 | ildarion2 | yes it's after replugg |
| 19:16:50 | ildarion2 | now you say hi, i not 100% sur :p |
| 19:16:59 | ildarion2 | say it* |
| 19:17:16 | ildarion2 | but yeah I unplugged |
| 19:17:33 | pamaury | can you pastebin again the output of the current dmesg ? Just to be sure |
| 19:18:18 | ildarion2 | i can qui the procedure about fdisk ? |
| 19:18:35 | ildarion2 | quiet* |
| 19:19:02 | pamaury | yes |
| 19:19:40 | pamaury | my bad, ok my fault i'm stupid ^^ |
| 19:20:13 | ildarion2 | do you want dmesg N |
| 19:20:15 | pamaury | I told you to run "fdisk -b 4096" but it was "fdisk -b 2048" :-/ |
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| 19:20:20 | | Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 19:20:27 | ildarion2 | ok |
| 19:20:45 | ildarion2 | i do with 2048 so |
| 19:20:47 | pamaury | so can you redo this now: |
| 19:20:47 | pamaury | "fdisk -b 2048 /dev/sdb" |
| 19:20:47 | pamaury | then "d", then "n" (new) "p" (primary) "1"then "512" (first LBA) then just enter, then "t" then "c" then "p" and pastebin (don't quit) |
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| 19:21:12 | | Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@161.43.73.67) |
| 19:26:01 | ildarion2 | pastebin free limit reach so : http://piratepad.net/n5wLxZ7Una |
| 19:27:22 | pamaury | good, now hit "w", unplug and replug and paste the output of dmesg after having plugged (and wait for a second) |
| 19:27:35 | * | pamaury didn't know there was a limit |
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| 19:28:29 | | Quit alucryd (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:30:32 | ildarion2 | http://piratepad.net/n5wLxZ7Una |
| 19:32:33 | pamaury | ah good, now can you try to boot the OF ? |
| 19:33:54 | | Join alucryd [0] (~alucryd@archlinux/trusteduser/alucryd) |
| 19:34:17 | ildarion2 | Seem to be block on the loading screen of sansa, I think is a good sygn |
| 19:35:16 | ildarion2 | normaly, if I put a firmware.sb it will be install no ? |
| 19:36:31 | pamaury | yes |
| 19:36:58 | pamaury | also I suggest you reformat (again) the drive using windows, because with the fews tricks we did, there might be some inconsistency |
| 19:37:11 | ildarion2 | Ok |
| 19:38:09 | ildarion2 | can you explain to me what the issue was ? |
| 19:38:49 | ildarion2 | for leave an anwer on the forum for other people^^ |
| 19:41:34 | pamaury | sure |
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| 19:42:41 | pamaury | the problem is the "logical sector size" |
| 19:42:58 | pamaury | that is: when the OS reads the number for the MBR, those are units of "sectors" |
| 19:43:24 | pamaury | more precisely, it's a logical sector, but the problem is difference software might have different notion of sector size. |
| 19:43:41 | pamaury | The OF has been compiled to use a logical sector size of 2048 bytes, which is quite unusual |
| 19:43:52 | pamaury | On the other hand, Rockbox tries to guess it at runtime |
| 19:44:05 | pamaury | And finally Linux uses the value provided by the USB SCSI layer |
| 19:44:31 | pamaury | By default the OF reports 2048 and since Rockbox guesses right, it reports 2048. So both Linux and Windows use that figure. Everyone is happy |
| 19:45:06 | ildarion2 | Ok, so when the windows utility USB installer has done theyre shit on sansa, it has changed the value |
| 19:45:23 | pamaury | What you did completely erased the partition table and when you plugged it again, OF couldn't boot so you had to use Rockbox |
| 19:45:53 | pamaury | and Rockbox guessed 512 because that how the USB installer thing put on it |
| 19:46:07 | ildarion2 | ok |
| 19:46:19 | pamaury | And then you couldn't do anything because both Linux and windows would helplessly use 512 instead of 2048 |
| 19:46:45 | pamaury | The trick to solve it is tricky: you first create a partition table using 512 sector size and put the partition at sector 2048. |
| 19:46:46 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #512 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/512 : AMSv2 sd: restore switch sd into high-speed mode by Gunbuster (changes/12/512/2) |
| 19:47:06 | pamaury | then you create the partition at this sector |
| 19:47:49 | pamaury | Then you rerun fdisk using the -b option to convince him it's actually a 2048 logical size and you recreate the partition at sector 512. And since 512 * 2048 bytes = 2048 * 512 bytes, the partition didn't move, but the figures use different units |
| 19:48:13 | pamaury | Then you unplug and replug, now Rockbox guesses right: 2048 bytes and you are saved |
| 19:48:45 | | Quit Baranko (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 19:49:08 | pamaury | I guess the conclusion is: the OF is stupid but we knew that before ^^ |
| 19:49:38 | pamaury | need to go, be back later |
| 19:50:00 | ildarion2 | the conclusion is "Do not use your MP4 for dark thing like instal the windows 7 usb installer" :p |
| 19:51:07 | gevaerts | Unless you know how to recover :) |
| 19:51:53 | ildarion2 | the time spend to recover is not a great deal |
| 19:52:32 | ildarion2 | I really need to buy a flash drive 4go+ :p |
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| 20:00 |
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| 20:32:37 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 20:37:16 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@87-207-223-0.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 20:38:30 | wodz | pixelma: The patch touches such essential things that it would either just work or it will hang on boot (so be prepared to use paper clip if I screwed something up) |
| 20:55:19 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:58:04 | wodz | holly crap: "Sorry wodz, you are banned from using this forum! This ban is not set to expire." |
| 20:58:33 | wodz | gevaerts, saratoga: ^ |
| 20:58:51 | * | gevaerts asks saratoga to be more careful :) |
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| 21:01:24 | wodz | pamaury: fs#12926 is exactly the behavior of rk27xx usb driver (except that rk27xx survives a few rounds of lsusb -v) |
| 21:01:25 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12926 usb connection hangs after lsusb -v (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 21:02:45 | gevaerts | saratoga: I think we should be a bit less ban-happy. I don't think it helps much, and accidents *do* happen |
| 21:09:31 | | Quit y4n (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:09:39 | gevaerts | wodz: you should be fine again |
| 21:10:27 | | Join y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) |
| 21:11:16 | wodz | gevaerts: yes, thanks |
| 21:13:00 | pamaury | wodz: I thought you needed to spam it to crash it ?! |
| 21:14:24 | wodz | pamaury: yes I need to run it more then once. Single lsusb -v kills usb on OF though |
| 21:15:58 | | Quit krabador (Quit: Sto andando via) |
| 21:28:05 | copper | [Saint]: I went ahead and replaced the storage / hold switch indicators with 32 bit RGBA images |
| 21:28:11 | copper | works well |
| 21:30:48 | | Quit y4n (Quit: HOLY SHIT! WE'RE ALL JUST LIVING ON A GINORMOUS FUCKING SPINNING ROCK FLOATING THROUGH SPACE CIRCLING A BIG FUCKING BALL OF FIRE!!!) |
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| 21:40:37 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:00 |
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| 22:04:27 | saratoga | how did i ban wodz? |
| 22:04:50 | pamaury | did you ? |
| 22:05:35 | gevaerts | *.chello.pl |
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| 22:13:52 | wodz | huh, chello is pretty big ISP in Poland banning whole domain is not good idea |
| 22:14:57 | wodz | On another topic - anyone considered using kconfig-frontends instead of our hand crafted configure? |
| 22:20:22 | pamaury | what would it bring ? |
| 22:23:09 | wodz | manuconfig should be more intuitive |
| 22:27:10 | | Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) |
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| 22:34:07 | | Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 22:44:41 | kugel | wodz: yeah i considered kconfig |
| 22:47:02 | pamaury | kugel: I'm working on usb simulator |
| 22:47:15 | pamaury | there is a huge cleanup work to make it apply and compile again ! |
| 22:47:38 | kugel | nice. does the mainline vhci work for this purpose? |
| 22:50:48 | pamaury | I don't think so, I looked at it briefly and it seems to be rather different |
| 22:51:09 | pamaury | anyway, the actual usb driver is only a small part of the overall patch |
| 22:55:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:06 | pamaury | omg, it still uses the wakeup data structure ^^ |
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| 23:21:12 | | Join Icedman [0] (~Icey@unaffiliated/icedman) |
| 23:21:18 | Icedman | sup |
| 23:21:24 | Icedman | errm |
| 23:22:34 | Icedman | I am wondering what's better the clip+ or clip zip. Currently reading forum posts about the experiences |
| 23:24:46 | bertrik | I use my clip zip more than my clip+, the zip has a full colour screen (OLED, a bit crap) and has a radio chip that supports RDS |
| 23:25:28 | bertrik | the clip+ has only a bicolor OLED, but is more 'crisp'. |
| 23:26:08 | Icedman | jea |
| 23:26:39 | Icedman | how are the buttons? |
| 23:36:03 | | Quit scorche|sh (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 23:38:21 | toehser1 | The buttons are fine on both until the power button on the clip+ breaks off the circuit board... I'm up to *3* failed Clip+ players in my family (between my daughter and I, mostly, as we're the heavy users). They work fine by plugging them into USB to turn them on, though... So far, no Clip Zips have failed this way. |
| 23:38:45 | toehser1 | The other difference is the micro USB vs. mini USB - the Zip is compatible with more currently common cables... |
| 23:39:06 | bertrik | I have a clip+ with a lame button, still works, but doesn't click anymore |
| 23:39:39 | pamaury | kugel_: appartently the usb vhci that I was using was not really maintained and doesn't compile out of the box with kernel 3.12, so maybe I'll switch to usbip |
| 23:40:05 | pamaury | unfortunately that means reimplementing there network protocol more or less, except if they have a library for it |
| 23:41:24 | pamaury | kugel_: do you know if it's possible to build it as a module ? I would prefer to avoid recompiling a whole kernel just for one driver |
| 23:42:34 | Icedman | thanks for your replies |
| 23:42:37 | Icedman | :D |
| 23:42:47 | Icedman | I will get the zip then |
| 23:43:04 | kugel_ | pamaury: yes, and usbip and vhci-hcd are separate modules |
| 23:43:41 | pamaury | oh cool, debian unstable builds staging my default so I have them on my box :) |
| 23:43:44 | | Join sprout_now [0] (~RJChesko@210.13.104.52) |
| 23:43:51 | pamaury | yeah but i can't find anywhere the vhci-hcd protocol documented |
| 23:43:57 | toehser1 | One other difference as long as we're fleshing them all out - the zip has the microphone on the front top bezel, the + on the back by the clip I think. Neither is necessarily better, but something to be aware of if you record. |
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| 23:49:14 | pamaury | kugel: also I think it's not clear you can control the vhci hcd stuff without usbip because the dependency is reverse: vhci-hcd depends on usbip_core |
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| 23:55:30 | | Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1) |
| 23:56:25 | kugel_ | pamaury: that dependency might be only to make the build system happy |
| 23:56:42 | pamaury | no I checked the code |
| 23:57:03 | * | kugel_ didn't |
| 23:57:27 | pamaury | you *have* to use the tcp/ip protocol |
| 23:57:31 | kugel_ | the menuconfig items is a bit misleading then |
| 23:57:51 | pamaury | it's just that the usbip stuff is cut into two parts: a common part which is mandatory |
| 23:58:08 | pamaury | and the usbip host part which exports physical devices over ip |
| 23:58:23 | pamaury | the vhci_hcd does the reverse: it presents exported devices to the local system |
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