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#rockbox log for 2014-01-30

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14:27:30wodzpamaury: did you try rkdfu mode on yp-cp3?
14:35:50pamaurywodz: not yet, but I'm home this afternoon so I will have time to try, contrary to the other days
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15:28:23pamaurywodz (logs): the rk27utils/ programs at terribly buggy about argument handling: they mostly crash when run without argument which is pretty bad
15:33:26pamaurywodz (logs): using rk27load seems to work but when it comes to hwstub, it fails at enumerating
15:33:53pamauryso I take it that rkdu mode is working but something is wrong with hwstub or the hardware is init in a weird way
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16:34:09chrisjjAny Zen X-Fi Style users here? Do you find it slow in response to user input? Mine takes about half a second to responds to any keypress, even just stepping down a menu.
16:34:45chrisjjContrast e.g. ZEN and ZEN X-Fi - fast.
16:35:58chrisjjI wonder if the X-Fi Style processor is slower. This is suggested also by the fact this model does not have some display detail of other models.
16:36:28pamaurychrisjj: with rockbox or without ?
16:36:43pamaurythe process is actually faster than the ZEN, it can up to 480MHz
16:37:14pamaurywhereas the ZEN one is limited to 320MHZ iirc
16:37:15chrisjjWithout (sorry not to say).
16:37:48chrisjjWell, what on earth is it doing with that 480 Mcps :)
16:38:11chrisjjI suspect it is not running at that top speed.
16:38:33chrisjjAnd the display simplification suggest this is by design.
16:40:23pamauryyeah probably, because in theory it's a very capable player
16:41:05*pamaury needs to update the wiki for X-Fi Style bootloader install
16:44:13chrisjjX-Fi Style is less capable than its predecessor (X-Fi), surely. E.g. it dropped the SD card slot.
16:45:02pamauryyeah of course but that's kind of obvious ;)
16:45:21pamauryI don't really like the X-Fi Style anyway, the buttons are very bad
16:48:56chrisjjWhat capability do you think explains the slower processing?
16:49:00 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
16:49:22chrisjjOh, sorry, I think I misunderstood you. We are agreeing!
16:50:08pamauryprobably poor software, I can't think of any reason to have half-second delay
16:50:18pamauryespecially with such a powerful processor !
16:50:42pamauryhowever I do have a potential explaination: the ZEN/X-Fi are based on an different OS than the X-Fi Style
16:51:00pamaurythe former is Nucleus, the latter is Freescale SDK
16:52:55chrisjj"I can't think of any reason to have half-second delay" Slow CPU to extend battery charge life.
16:53:21chrisjjButr actually the quoted battery charge life is actually lower - 26h v X-Fi 35h !
16:53:37chrisjjAh, different OS.
16:53:47pamauryyeah but even this is a poor explaination, just look at Rockbox: we outperform most OSes on imx233 and yet interface is not slow
16:53:54chrisjjHow did you ID the OS? Inside the firmware?
16:54:30pamauryyeah, it might not be obvious but actually the tools involved to create firmwares for these devices are very different
16:54:55chrisjjRockbox outerperforming does not mean that OFs can't be slow :)
16:55:29pamaurythe ZEN/X-Fi belongs to the very long series of Jukebox players we could say, they all use the same firmware formats and are all based on Nucleus. Starting from the X-Fi Style, they changed to pure Freescale stuff
16:56:21pamauryyeah sure, I meant that running at slow CPU rate for increased battery life is not very good thinking in general, you need to run at slow CPU when it's relevant
16:56:40chrisjjAgreed. Crap OS sounds like the better explanation.
16:57:17pamauryI noticed that the Freescale OS is extremely complicated (which is why it took so long to reverse engineer btw), and several players don't use it properly
16:58:16chrisjjGoing by release date, seems the ZEN MX is Freescale. Have you seen confirmation in the firmware?
16:59:21 Join srara [0] (450e5bac@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
16:59:45pamauryah yeah forgot about th ZEN MX, it's Freescale too
17:00:13pamaurysrara: if you have a question, do ask, someone will answer if he/she knows
17:01:24sraraI just put rockbox on my Clip+ because the volume up button and power button fell off. I tried putting them back on with solder but I'm an idiot and it didn't work. When I installed rockbox everything installed fine and dandy, but none of the menu buttons or home button or even the volume buttons do anything but turn the screen back on. It's "hangi
17:01:24srarang", and when I go to the FAQ to see what I can do, it says hold the power button down, which I can't do .-.
17:02:06sraraAlso, I thought about uninstalling and reinstalling rockbox but I can't do that since it doesn't connect to the PC properly, even if I try MSC
17:03:49pamauryso it's doesn't turn off automatically I guess ? You could let the battery drain and then connect USB to get MSC in OF
17:04:25 Quit fragilematter (Quit: Leaving.)
17:04:55sraraIt powers the screen down but doesn't do anything but start it back up when I hit a button. I was thinking about letting the power drain but I'm wondering if there's a way to do it faster. All this trouble just because I want to listen to the Darth Bane trilogy without having to connect to my PC >__>
17:06:00chrisjj"ZEN MX, it's Freescale too" Aw, shame. I've added the OS IDs to wiki
17:06:19pamaurywithout a working power button I don't really see other options. How broken is the button ?
17:06:31chrisjjI notice all those IDed as Nucleus have MTP, and as Freescale, MSC. No coincidence, I guess.
17:06:33sraraSo broken that even after soldering it back on it still doesn't work.
17:07:26chrisjjpamaury: Where's the ZEN X-Fi Style port? No mention at
17:07:51pamaurychrisjj: the Nucleus one use custom file system so they have to use MTP otherwise the host couldn't read it (that's why we can't dual boot on those) Freescale can do both but they chose MSC it seems.
17:08:14pamaurychrisjj: I have not written the wiki page yet
17:08:49pamaurysrara: maybe other people will have ideas but I don't have any other, sorry
17:09:08sraraAlright it's cool. With the screen off will the battery still drain or will I have to keep it manually on?
17:09:18chrisjjI'm gald Creative switched MTP->MSC and sad now the world is going the other way e.g. Android.
17:09:28pamaurysrara: it will drain but probably not as fast
17:11:13chrisjjpamaury: OK, no problem. Note though that there's no build at
17:11:43pamaurychrisjj: I know, it's not compiled yet because there are no wiki instruction, it's useless without it ;)
17:12:27pamaurythere are advantages to MTP and support is getting better in linux also
17:12:33chrisjjI'll be interested to test... and see if the power/USB BSoD is present :)
17:13:37chrisjjI accept there are advantages to MTP but until I can access it via a drive letter, I'd rather have MSC any day!
17:13:39pamauryno it's works like a charm
17:14:00chrisjjWell, any day that doesn't come with the dog-slow interface of the X-Fi Style :)
17:14:06pamaurythe issue on the ZEN is related to the LCD (I think I told you ?), hardware bug
17:14:19chrisjjA charm, you say. Fancy that. I wonder how the ZEN MX will turn out.
17:14:54pamauryZEN MX is much harder to port because it uses raw NAND and we don't support that at the moment :-(
17:15:46pamauryit has a SD port so we could put rockbox on it like on the ZEN X-Fi2 granted
17:16:21pamaurybut I have some issues with the LCD driver, it's not working for some reason and since the MX is not my priority it's has stalled for now
17:16:43chrisjjBTW, can we put RB on the ZEN SD?
17:17:39pamaurythat would require modifying the bootloader
17:17:57pamaurywhy would you want that for ?
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17:35:22chrisjjI'm hoping it would obviate the need to reformat the internal store.
17:36:17chrisjjYou wrote in mail at the outset of the ZEN port: "The only big issue will be the file system but we can run rockbox on a SD card at the beginning."
17:41:10pamauryyeah we could do that but then the internal storage would be unusable at the moment
17:41:40pamauryand the device mostly unusable without an SD card
17:42:26pamauryideally we should support the creative file system (maybe read-only) but that's a lot of work to reverse engineer it
17:42:48pamaurysome work has been done but it only applies to an older version of it and doesn't match the one used in the ZEN
17:44:55chrisjj"then the internal storage would be unusable at the moment" Unusable by RB? Or by OF?
17:45:03 Quit Zagor (Quit: Clint excited)
17:45:34pamauryby RB, except if formatted as FAT
17:47:24chrisjjOK. I'd be able to boot to RB and play from SD, or to OF and play from internal store. Sounds good to me.
17:47:52chrisjjI guess that would only need a different bootloader... or does the existing one already do handle this?
17:49:13pamauryno, the current one boots from internal storage only, it's trivial to modify it to boot from SD though. I once had a plan to make a boot menu so one could choose from which device to boot (and the change would be persistent and easily changeable of course)
17:49:30pamaurymaybe that would be useful in this context
17:49:42sraraI'm sorry for being an idiot again, but how do I exit doom? (No power button)
17:49:56pamaurysrara: err, not sure you can ^^
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17:53:44chrisjjI think it would indeed. Esp. since a) yes it seems unlikely support of the OF FS is worth the effort b) that SD cards are so cheap c) the ZEN SD card slot unlikely to be much used by a ZENner pre-RB :)
17:54:27sraraIs there a way I can keep songs playing while it charges?
17:54:30chrisjjpamaury: Have you considered porting Linux to ZENs?
17:55:56pamaurychrisjj: no, it is true it has sufficient RAM for the port to be working but I already have rockbox and more work than I can do ^^
17:56:42pamaurysrara: yes, hold a key when plugging USB to disable mass storage
17:56:57sraraok thanks
17:57:13chrisjjpamaury: fair enought, Next decade, perhaps :)
17:57:25pamaurychrisjj: actually there is an imx233 port for Linux but it is lacking a few features to make it really useful (like proper power management and audio support)
17:58:05sraraI havn't restarted my computer in ages .-.
17:58:27sraraI really hope people aren't using the WAMP server right now. :3
17:58:33sraraBe right back.
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17:59:00chrisjjpamaury: has it been tried on any DAP?
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18:00:08pamaurychrisjj: someone I know from Olimex who is working on U-Boot successfully ran U-Boot on the fuze+ and I think he tried linux too (without display)
18:00:51pamauryand zen x-fi3 also iirc
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18:08:00chrisjjX-Fi3 no surprise.
18:08:02 Nick Srara is now known as Razorasadsid (450e5bac@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
18:08:15RazorasadsidYo :3
18:08:34RazorasadsidIs there a way to sync playlists on a Clip+ (With RB ofc) with Foobar2k?
18:08:44chrisjjNot sure what to make to fuze+ success. It is more or less capacious than e.g. ZEN?
18:10:09pamauryin which terms ? storage ? cpu ? ram ?
18:11:30RazorasadsidAlso are there visualizers for the Clip+ RB? And if so, how easy would it be to make a custom one?
18:12:49pamauryRazorasadsid: not sure what you mean by syncing playlist, Rockbox can read playlist and with your software you may be able to "sync" so that songs of your playlist are transferred to the device I guess. I don't understand what you mean by visualizer
18:13:29RazorasadsidVisualizer: And I want to know if it can sync with Foobar2k, meaning every time I plug it in it "updates" the song files and playlists. :)
18:14:04chrisjjI was thinking RAM to be the most important of those.
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18:14:54pamaurywe have a plugin for spectrum analysis I think; any kind of syncing has to come from your software, rockbox doesn't have any particular feature except it can read playlists.
18:15:14pamaurychrisjj: Fuze+ has 32MB iirc, ZEN has 64MB, X-Fi3 has 64MB also iirc
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18:16:54chrisjjpamaury: Thanks. Just think what a legacy-free RB could do with all that! :)
18:17:22chrisjjFWIW, this MSC column might be helpful in knowing which ZEN models have easy LCD for RB. Sad though that the best of those models are so rare.
18:19:59RazorasadsidI keep trying to move
18:21:07pamauryRazorasadsid: maybe your file system has errors
18:21:20RazorasadsidI've unplugged, replugged and restarted =/
18:22:31RazorasadsidSorry about the stupidity of my questions and overall, I'm incredibly sick right now and just wanted to listen to some music and DBT, but look how that turned out :P
18:25:07RazorasadsidSo how does RB on the Clip+ read playlists again?
18:25:38pamauryjust select a playlist like you would select a file
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18:26:18RazorasadsidLike a windows media playlist or something special?
18:26:37pamaurywe support the m3u and m3u8 format I think
18:27:39RazorasadsidSo theorethically.. if I was able to say... make it use:
18:30:30pamauryyeah except you should beware that the file path in the playlist should reflect actual paths on the device. I'm not a specialist I admit because I never use playlists on my devices so maybe someone knows
18:31:19RazorasadsidYeah I wasn't expecting it to be able to stream anyways :P
18:31:40RazorasadsidLove this song. Brb and thanks a TON for all of your help!
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18:50:03chrisjjThat >m3U says . How does RB Clip+ stream, I wonder???
19:01:18pamauryany arm expert around here ?
19:01:46copperIt's pretty basic, really.
19:01:47pamauryhaha ^^
19:19:09pamauryI'm looking at the as3525 interrupt nesting code and there are several mysteries to me: 1) why does the VIC address needs to be read before SPSR ? 2) why does a say there must be an instruction between mrs and msr ? 3) which/what requires SVC stack pointer to be 8-bytes aligned ? (EABI ?)
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19:50:51saratogaso anyone going to buy that new sandisk clip once its out?
19:58:39saratogais a real thing, it seems to be mostly spam and they have no website
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20:06:14pamaurysaratoga: there is a new sansa player ?
20:07:26copperClip Sport
20:09:55pamauryis this thing real ?
20:14:09 Quit saratoga (Quit: Page closed)
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20:36:36ZincAlloyif you guys will start a port, I'm sure gonna get one. Probably the Cabbie themed one ;)
20:37:12 Quit Marex (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:39:08pamaurylet's first see if it's real, and see what is inside
20:39:37ZincAlloyif it weren't real, why would it be on amazon?
20:39:55pamauryanyone can put it on amazon ?!
20:40:15ZincAlloy"Dispatched from and sold by Amazon."
20:44:39ZincAlloyOn Tuesday you can find out for sure if it's real ;)
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21:03:03toehserI'll buy it the minutes it is out, just to go from 8 to 16GB.
21:04:09toehserIt's real. It is popping up in lots of places. Few enough to think that Sansa said "don't announce it early", but people are making mistakes.
21:04:25toehserUnfortunately, no indication it is initially planned for the US market :(
21:04:26ZincAlloyI'd go for the 4gb one. I store my music on a 64 gb sd card..
21:04:52toehserSo do I- and I have another on a tether- 136GB now in my pocket- wanting to get to 144...
21:05:10ZincAlloyah ^^
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21:12:16wodzpamaury: 8-bytes stack alignment is dictated by EABI. The instruction between mrs and msr is to avoid instruction's hazard penalty most probably
21:20:07fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 7272a95, 249 builds, 33 clients.
21:26:40fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 392 seconds.
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22:43:40 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:44:38 Quit bluebrother^ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:17:37 Quit Marex (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:18:16 Join Marex [0] (~Marex@
23:22:38 Quit Provel (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:22:56 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:25:53 Join Epicanis [0] (
23:28:33 Join Provel [0] (
23:31:54 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
23:35:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:49:44 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)

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