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00:17:10 | [Saint] | nonMOOSE: It might be a good idea to familiarize yourself with our fine manual. |
00:17:56 | [Saint] | Though, although Rockbox has changed a lot in the past 4~5 years, at least two of the things you stated never happened, ever, 5 years ago or otherwise. |
00:18:31 | [Saint] | ...and, soap already said that. Yay. I'm blind today. |
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00:41:40 | Water255 | Is it okay if I ask, here, how much a coder would charge me to modify the source code to do something I want? |
00:42:45 | wodz | I guess you can ask what has to be done not how much would it cost |
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00:54:20 | [Saint] | I would /hope/, that the active developers wouldn't be moved by money, though. |
00:54:40 | [Saint] | I would much rather assist someone to do what they wanted than take a paycheck for it. |
00:55:01 | gevaerts | Well, it depends on a lot of things |
00:56:18 | [Saint] | In an ideal world I would like to see any funds claimed diverted back to Rockbox. But, that's me. |
00:56:40 | [Saint] | Of course, we still don;t know that what you want to do is even possible. :) |
00:56:46 | gevaerts | Well... |
00:58:01 | gevaerts | Suppose someone wants something done that's a *significant* (e.g. several months full time) amount of work, and not generally useful, you'd basically need someone to take this up as a job |
00:58:17 | gevaerts | I'm guessing that's not the case here though :) |
00:58:30 | [Saint] | Right, but it irks me that that would be on the back of thousands of hours of unpaid work. |
00:58:40 | [Saint] | ANd none of those developers get paid. |
00:58:43 | gevaerts | Why? |
00:59:12 | [Saint] | I know there's technically nothing wrong with it, but, it doesn't sit right with me. |
00:59:24 | gevaerts | You should have worked on a CC NC project then :) |
00:59:31 | [Saint] | Heh. :) |
00:59:34 | bertrik | Aren't most requests either keymap changes (because a button broke, or because someone's finger hurts somehow) or changes to remove features (e.g. radio)? |
01:00 |
01:00:07 | [Saint] | I guess we need to wait with baited breath and see what Water255 actually wants. |
01:01:12 | Water255 | Wow, sorry guys, I just realized i was getting replies... reading.... oh, btw this is what I want: How much money would a anyone want to modify the Fuze+ source so that it does this: When device is in hold mode, the mechanical 'volume up' key works like the 'play / pause' key, and mechanical 'volume down' key works like the rewind key? |
01:01:40 | gevaerts | That's just *wrong*! |
01:01:43 | [Saint] | You could do that yourself *incredibly* trivially. |
01:01:50 | [Saint] | And, yes. It is wrong. :) |
01:02:30 | saratoga | yeah just edit the keymap file, then follow the instructions to compile |
01:02:49 | saratoga | oh wait while the screen is on hold |
01:02:52 | Water255 | yeah |
01:02:53 | saratoga | not sure how that works actually |
01:03:28 | [Saint] | I imagine just the same as software hold works. |
01:03:38 | [Saint] | *unless* the hold key actually disables the buttons. |
01:03:42 | [Saint] | Then you're screwed. |
01:03:54 | Water255 | they wake the screen while in hold |
01:03:54 | saratoga | IIRC on software hold devices button presses are dropped, so probably you have to edit the software hold code to not do that |
01:10:29 | pamaury | editing the code to do that shouldn't be very hard but the "to rewind" part kind of irk me |
01:10:58 | Water255 | okay - 'skip back' button? |
01:12:05 | Water255 | I have a build environment set up. |
01:12:24 | pamaury | no I mean, you could easily make it rewind if you want, I just don't understand why you would want to do that :) |
01:13:26 | Water255 | i listen to speech a lot while working. Sometimes I'll miss a few seconds, and I need to skip back. |
01:14:16 | pamaury | ok, make sense |
01:14:29 | [Saint] | We have a function for that, do we not? |
01:14:34 | Water255 | I'm sure making the buttons do this would be pretty easy, but "only while on hold" is where I wouldn't know where to start |
01:14:34 | [Saint] | rewind N seconds? |
01:14:47 | * | [Saint] is pretty sure we can do that. |
01:15:14 | Water255 | So... RB contribution? |
01:15:26 | pamaury | [Saint]: we haver a rewind on pause function I think |
01:15:55 | [Saint] | Ohhhh, sorry. I'm thinking of skip length. |
01:16:00 | [Saint] | Yeah, not quite the same. |
01:16:14 | Water255 | I just want to button to do <whatever> i have the real rewind button set to do in the settings. |
01:17:29 | pamaury | that sounds pretty doable, at least in an ugly way ^^ |
01:17:40 | Water255 | ugly is fine |
01:19:30 | wodz | pamaury: Any recommendation for string hashing function? I did google survey but I can't really judge anything except expected computational effort |
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01:20:27 | Water255 | And for the mechanical volume-up button to do whatever the 'play / pause' button does (i.e. long-hold == stop and create bookmark). |
01:21:55 | pamaury | wodz: have a look at this: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/49550/which-hashing-algorithm-is-best-for-uniqueness-and-speed |
01:22:02 | pamaury | looks very serious |
01:23:28 | JdGordon | [Saint]: shutdown in menu needs a new LANG id.... i tried it last night and with an old lang file it messed things up |
01:24:26 | [Saint] | If the user installed the new build, it would come with a new lang file, so I don't understand the problem. |
01:24:54 | [Saint] | A partial install is a good way to break stuff, yes. |
01:26:00 | [Saint] | Hmmm...though I guess that only works right off the bat for english.lang |
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01:27:17 | [Saint] | Actually...no. |
01:28:10 | [Saint] | If the lang file and binary are from the same build, it should "Just Work", I believe. |
01:29:03 | [Saint] | I haven't seen any issue with English, but I don't test any other languages. Nor do I deliberately test with old lang files..because, why? |
01:30:22 | pamaury | Water255: in any case you're first step is to setup a build environment |
01:30:45 | [Saint] | [13:12:07] <Water255> I have a build environment set up. |
01:30:46 | Water255 | Already set up. |
01:33:01 | pamaury | sorry, missed that message ^^ I don't remember the code enough to propose a patch right now but I can have a look for tomorrow maybe |
01:33:20 | JdGordon | [Saint]: i agree... but yeah, we try not to break old lang files remember? :) |
01:34:20 | [Saint] | JdGordon: It would seem to me that this would be working around a broken installation. |
01:34:29 | [Saint] | I'm not sure why we should do that, personally. |
01:34:38 | Water255 | pamaury: That would be great. Thank you. |
01:34:46 | [Saint] | If you replace just the binary - you're asking for trouble. |
01:35:02 | [Saint] | ZZFull install? Works. All is well. Everyone happy. |
01:35:06 | [Saint] | -ZZ |
01:35:54 | [Saint] | And even if we did give it a new LANG id, if the user had an old lang file, it *still* wouldn;t work. |
01:36:05 | [Saint] | ..because neither the old, nor the new, ID would be there. |
01:36:07 | wodz | pamaury: it looks like fnv1 or fnv1a are good candidates. |
01:37:05 | [Saint] | I see this as a non-issue. |
01:37:20 | [Saint] | Even if I change the lang id, an old lang file is still going to shit it up. |
01:37:27 | [Saint] | As it should. |
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01:37:55 | pamaury | wodz: my guess is that you should try on actual data see if you get collisions |
01:38:53 | [Saint] | So, yeah: TL;DR - Update your bloody lang file with the build. ;) |
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02:46:18 | JdGordon | [Saint]: this is what we do... this is what we always do. if the string isnt in the lang file the user will get the inbuilt english string |
02:47:01 | [Saint] | But the string _should_ be in the lang file. |
02:47:11 | [Saint] | If it isn't, by definition, its a broken install. |
02:47:28 | [Saint] | You can't expect a mismatched install to work. Nor should you. |
02:47:52 | JdGordon | english.lang is compiled into the binary |
02:49:15 | [Saint] | Right. ANd it should bloody well "Just Work" if you're using English and/or a current *lang file. |
02:49:30 | [Saint] | I really don't understand the problem. |
02:49:44 | [Saint] | If you have old lang files floating around, fix it. |
02:51:06 | [Saint] | I've had two people tell me that the system is designed to cope with this and adding a voice string to a previously unvoiced lang ID is perfectly fine. |
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02:51:23 | [Saint] | ...and I've seen no issue personally. |
02:52:45 | [Saint] | That being said, if there's some problem I'm just not seeing, I believe you know how gerrit works. |
02:55:53 | [Saint] | I feel I should point out that all I did was bring your origial version that did the exact same thing up to date. ;) |
02:56:30 | JdGordon | i know... |
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09:02:08 | draft | hello |
09:04:01 | draft | has anyone installed Rockbox on iPod 4G Nano? |
09:23:30 | [Saint] | no. |
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10:40:53 | guestnano2g | hello! I'm developing a theme for ipod nano2g (and publish in Rockbox theme site :D ),I wanted to know if you still have people trying to fix USB for ipod nano2g,is too slow (and dangerous) rebooting in apple firmware constantly. |
10:49:51 | pixelma | [Saint]: reading last night's log, I thought JdGordon was talking about older voice files which aren't updated automatically with the build. There I'm not sure if kugel's earlier comment about IDs was correct. IIRC what happens if you don't do this correctly is that voice users get different things spoken for all strings below the changed one in the source. When done right thebn at least existing things are still correct and only the new one won't |
10:49:51 | pixelma | be spoken with an old voice file. |
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10:55:28 | wodz | holly crap! if this is right http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48014.msg227064/topicseen.html#msg227064 , clip sport is based on atj2127 SoC |
10:57:25 | wodz | That would be really pity as it is truly weird SoC |
10:59:14 | copper | not loading for me |
10:59:50 | copper | "waiting for forums.rockbox.org…" |
11:00 |
11:00:44 | wodz | basically if this IS atj2127 rockbox for this little player will nott happen |
11:01:13 | copper | not well documented enough? |
11:01:52 | lebellium | not loading either |
11:02:11 | wodz | That is only part of the story. This SoC is mips4k core + DSP with VERY limited memory splited into a few banks |
11:02:25 | copper | so, not ARM |
11:02:37 | wodz | it is not like general purpose processor |
11:02:57 | copper | well, that sucks |
11:02:58 | wodz | the memory layout is truly awkward |
11:03:02 | copper | I was almost tempted |
11:03:43 | wodz | That is based on what I know about atj2127. Maybe someone proves me wrong |
11:04:31 | copper | that's weird |
11:04:46 | copper | doesn't that mean more work for SanDisk to develop the firmware? |
11:04:48 | wodz | the mem is 88kB total IIRC |
11:04:55 | lebellium | wodz: I don't see where it is written in the forum thread |
11:05:10 | wodz | copper: they got sdk from actions to start with |
11:05:18 | wodz | lebellium: look at the pictures |
11:05:27 | wodz | from the last post |
11:05:41 | copper | there are none |
11:05:44 | lebellium | there is no picture in the last post |
11:06:11 | wodz | there are links |
11:06:23 | copper | one link |
11:06:28 | copper | no picture there either |
11:06:49 | copper | I'm not registered though |
11:06:53 | wodz | http://i57.tinypic.com/1z6gyh.jpg |
11:07:13 | lebellium | ah.... |
11:07:17 | lebellium | you talk about ABI |
11:07:23 | lebellium | why linking the rockbox forum then |
11:07:42 | wodz | no, I read this from our forum |
11:07:56 | lebellium | okay I see the CPU now |
11:07:56 | [Saint] | I almost want to believe that silkscreen is trolling... |
11:07:58 | copper | that's on ABI |
11:08:18 | [Saint] | That's a very odd choice. |
11:08:30 | [Saint] | Even if you are handy with the schematics. |
11:08:44 | copper | why is it 4 times the same pic |
11:09:07 | copper | anyway |
11:09:15 | copper | needs moar RMAA |
11:20:28 | copper | wodz: 88 KiB of total RAM? |
11:20:39 | copper | that sounds insane |
11:22:28 | pixelma | hmm, now thinking about voice files... more things come to mind. I wonder what (if anything) kugel changed lately for voice files not fitting in RAM on harddisk based Archoses. Earlier it was recommended to squeeze the size of the voice file (different quality, stronger compression) until it fits. Chunked loading as done for the flash based Ondio has disadvantages on harddisk - you would need to wait for the disk to spin up which also drains the |
11:22:28 | pixelma | batteries way more |
11:22:55 | copper | wodz: that's not even enough for a 128x128x16 bitmap |
11:23:34 | copper | e.g. a backdrop |
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11:31:21 | copper | "4000 folder/file database limit" |
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11:34:03 | guestnano2g | SIL Open Font License is acceptable for upload in rockbox theme site? |
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11:37:30 | [Saint] | guestnano2g: seems so. |
11:37:49 | [Saint] | http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL#6c6c80bc |
11:39:42 | guestnano2g | oh thanks for the reply :) have a nice day! |
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11:48:31 | copper | wodz: actually, 88 KiB would not even be enough for 76x76x16 album art, as pictured on the SanDisk renderings |
11:51:04 | copper | https://outpost.fr/viewimg/IDg.jpg |
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12:32:23 | rela | is the clip sport new? |
12:33:14 | bertrik | yes |
12:33:52 | rela | how are the volume buttons on this one? i thougt the ones on the zip were to small and with bad feedback |
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12:44:28 | pamaury | wodz: this is pretty bad news if it's the case |
12:44:47 | pamaury | maybe the atj is just a companion chip and not the main one ? |
12:48:21 | pamaury | this thing is just horrible to program, we will never be able to port rockbox to it if that's really it |
12:49:19 | rela | wat? no rockbox for the sport? |
12:50:12 | [Saint] | This stage it seems unlikely, indeed. |
12:50:14 | wodz | pamaury: yeah. Fitst we need confirmation about the hardware |
12:50:23 | pamaury | wodz: yeah we need to wait |
12:50:41 | copper | do you guys think there's another chip on the other side of the PCB? |
12:50:58 | [Saint] | Its possible. SUre. |
12:51:09 | pamaury | possible but I'm pessimistic |
12:51:22 | [Saint] | Reasonanly unlikely, with button placement and LCD. But /possible/. |
12:51:31 | pamaury | based on this: http://www.actions-semi.com/en/productview.aspx?cat=87&id=118 |
12:53:18 | [Saint] | You kinda have to wonder why. |
12:53:21 | pamaury | I will ask the guy to disassemble it more |
12:53:38 | rela | well... i will cancel my order right away and wait :) |
12:54:17 | [Saint] | I really thought there was a chance this would be an imx target. |
12:54:23 | [Saint] | Sad. |
12:55:05 | wodz | why the didn't use atj213x, then my work on the platform would get the spin :P |
12:55:11 | wodz | *they |
12:55:25 | [Saint] | Inconsiderate bastards. |
12:55:27 | rela | its like they just dont know how homebrew fires up the sales |
12:55:28 | [Saint] | ;) |
12:55:37 | rela | or they dont care |
12:55:42 | pamaury | I still don't understand how you can sell something like an ATJ2127 in 2014, it's just so wrong |
12:56:00 | [Saint] | rela: I suspect they don't care. |
12:56:07 | rela | pamaury: probably they found a stack of those in the basement somewhere |
12:56:28 | [Saint] | the amount of people buying this specifically for Rockbox, even if it was compatible, is *tiny*. |
12:56:39 | [Saint] | So tiny they needn't give a shit. |
12:56:44 | rela | possible, yes |
12:56:58 | wodz | pamaury: you can if its gonna be dirty cheap |
12:57:01 | copper | "It is a low-cost, low-power, high-efficiency digital multimedia chip" ← I guess that's why? |
12:57:23 | [Saint] | There's many other non-suck contenders in that class. |
12:57:32 | [Saint] | Many. |
12:58:19 | pamaury | the win is unclear to me: you have such a small amount of memory you either have to rewrite everything specifically for it OR to swap all the time, which is extremely power hungry |
12:58:34 | copper | SNR specs aren't very impressive |
12:59:03 | rela | the clip zip / + always had great audio quality. it sounds like this one will lack this great sound |
12:59:38 | [Saint] | I think the 4K file/folder limit is hilarious. |
12:59:45 | [Saint] | That's an immediate turnoff. |
13:00 |
13:00:10 | [Saint] | Joe Average won't care, though. |
13:00:38 | rela | saint: just merge your files to one big audio stream |
13:00:43 | rela | problem solved |
13:01:07 | rela | fast forwarding to the song you like can be tricky, but hey, thats what we did with audio tapes too |
13:03:50 | copper | ew |
13:05:21 | copper | 4000 four minutes long songs at 128 kbps is about 15.3 GB |
13:05:52 | copper | which happens to be the largest storage model which will come out later |
13:05:58 | copper | (16 GB) |
13:07:02 | copper | the MSRP is quite high for such a limited DAP |
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13:15:02 | rela | unfortunately i am not happy with the volume rocker on the clip zip |
13:15:24 | rela | its too small, not much feedback from the buttons |
13:15:35 | rela | almost impossible to use with gloves |
13:17:35 | wodz | I'd be very surprised if something of clip's size be comfortable to use with gloves. |
13:23:20 | copper | I guess they figured that the only remaining market for DAPs is gym / workout stuff |
13:23:54 | copper | and I wonder if they misinterpreted the failure of the Fuze+ as "it was too big" |
13:24:05 | wodz | pamaury: I create symbols lookup table with something like this http://pastie.org/8738917. So in source .c file you add EXPORT_SYMBOL(function_name); and the entry automagicaly is created. Now what to do with functions implemented in separate .S files? |
13:25:04 | wodz | hmm, maybe add ASM_EXPORT_SYMBOL equivalent |
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13:30:02 | pamaury | to the same in assembly |
13:30:08 | pamaury | with ".section" |
13:31:32 | pamaury | or maybe you can detect the file type, I have all assembly files are compiled with some special define |
13:31:37 | pamaury | *I think all |
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13:32:31 | pamaury | like __ASSEMBLER__ |
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13:33:09 | pamaury | that's very strange: my interrupt nested code causes the stack to goes unaligned (not even on word), I can't see why |
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13:40:38 | wodz | what was the switch to only preprocess the file -E ? |
13:47:19 | wodz | pamaury: this almost work http://pastie.org/8738959 except that preprocessor doesn't emit newlines and assembler barfs |
13:50:17 | pamaury | yeah -E or -M I don't recall |
13:50:54 | pamaury | hum, I don't know how to put newlines |
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13:59:27 | ZincAlloy | wow, that is really bad news about the clip sport :( |
14:00 |
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14:04:13 | pamaury | yeah, I guess that means no port |
14:04:43 | ZincAlloy | that explains the shitty firmware sandisk came up with |
14:05:16 | pamaury | they don't learn from mistakes |
14:05:59 | ZincAlloy | on the sandisk forum people are already stating that "rockbox could make this a good player" ^^ |
14:06:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
14:07:08 | ZincAlloy | bummer. a clip zip with bigger and better screen and better battery life are exactly what I want |
14:27:48 | pamaury | I guess now it's "rockbox could have made this a good player" ;) |
14:28:15 | ZincAlloy | apparently it couldn't. |
14:28:53 | ZincAlloy | I guess sandisk was just being too cheap |
14:30:46 | pamaury | or maybe wodz is incredibly motivated to do the port ? |
14:31:19 | ZincAlloy | would it be even possible to make it run reasonably well? |
14:35:37 | pamaury | if the soc is what we think it is, I think not |
14:36:42 | ZincAlloy | no point then |
14:37:44 | pamaury | the problem is the lack of memory and the weird memory architecture |
14:38:24 | ZincAlloy | is it possible to use the flash as additional memory? |
14:39:47 | pamaury | yes but that's 1) slow 2) difficult to program with so less memory 3) bad for the flash life |
14:39:57 | ZincAlloy | I see |
14:42:08 | pamaury | and if I read correctly, it uses a hardware audio decoder ?! |
14:42:39 | ZincAlloy | I think so |
14:47:05 | copper | they went full cheapo |
14:47:38 | ZincAlloy | because they were targeting this thing to a very specific audience. which is not going to work. people are already complaining |
14:48:21 | pamaury | or maybe the thing has an even weirder DSP like other ATJ |
14:48:38 | ZincAlloy | it does say atj2127 |
14:49:16 | pamaury | in the SoC, many atj have mips core + dsp |
14:49:27 | ZincAlloy | ok |
14:53:27 | dfkt | from a glorious Austrian SoC to some random Chinese one? i bet polka won't sound good on the zip sport |
14:55:17 | ZincAlloy | I guess they traded in quality for battery life.. |
14:55:33 | pamaury | ATJ is not exactly a random chinese one, it's has been here for some time |
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15:00 |
15:02:49 | pamaury | wodz: did you solve the problem with assembly macro ? |
15:05:46 | pamaury | wodz: otherwise, you can define a gas macro and call it |
15:17:30 | cramler | Greetings! I thought I might blarb in here, since the forums seem to go on and off right now. I recently got a "zen x-fi3" and thought I might just get my hands on the keymaps, but I am experiencing problems building rockbox correctly it seems. I have no problems building my own bootloader (v1.00.25), and building (unaltered) rockbox gives no errors, but starting it up on the Zen gives a "No .rockbox directory" and "Installation incomplete |
15:17:31 | cramler | ". Tried on two machines, one with gcc 4.4.4, the other with 4.6.3. Are those known to be problematic? Any ideas? |
15:19:02 | cramler | I also tried Amaury Poulys bootloader with same results, but his rockbox build works for me... |
15:19:48 | pamaury | cramler: so you correctly flashed the bootloader and it runs rockbox but then you get a "no .rockbox" message in a splash message ? |
15:20:06 | cramler | pamary: Yes |
15:20:29 | pamaury | strange indeed, give me 10 minutes and I'll check on mine |
15:21:39 | cramler | As I said, using your build works fine, but mine wont do. |
15:21:56 | pamaury | oh I see |
15:22:12 | pamaury | by my build you mean the daily builds ? |
15:22:21 | cramler | yes |
15:23:56 | cramler | It compiles my custom bootloader correctly, but the actual rockbox builds that I compile dont work. |
15:24:10 | pamaury | interesting, are you using our cross compiler or a custom one ? |
15:24:36 | cramler | I exactly followed your tutorial. |
15:25:12 | cramler | Same Problem on two different host computers. |
15:25:53 | cramler | Running Ubuntu 12.04, otherwise vanilla. |
15:27:50 | cramler | Sorry, if confusing... regular updates (12.04.3), but no custom software, aside of the toolchain. |
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15:29:52 | pamaury | cramler: have you checked the file system for errors ? |
15:30:31 | cramler | Yes. |
15:30:49 | pamaury | I'm doing a custom build, let's see |
15:36:32 | pamaury | cramler: I'm sorry, lunch time, I'll be back in 15 minutes to try |
15:36:57 | cramler | thank you |
15:54:56 | pamaury | ok, so my custom build works here. Did you correctly create a zip at the end of the build and unzip it at the root of the device |
15:57:19 | cramler | yes |
16:00 |
16:02:19 | pamaury | hum |
16:03:40 | pamaury | that must be a build problem but I don't see why. Can you run this in a console: "arm-elf-eabi-gcc -v" ? |
16:05:18 | cramler | Output as follows: |
16:05:20 | cramler | Using built-in specs. |
16:05:22 | cramler | Target: arm-elf-eabi |
16:05:24 | cramler | Configured with: ../gcc-4.4.4/configure −−target=arm-elf-eabi −−prefix=/usr/local −−enable-languages=c −−disable-libssp −−disable-docs MAKEINFO=missing |
16:05:26 | cramler | Thread model: single |
16:05:28 | cramler | gcc version 4.4.4 (GCC) |
16:06:10 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
16:06:25 | pamaury | weird |
16:07:01 | cramler | Since my bootloader is built correctly (functional with your builds), I am a bit lost... |
16:07:25 | pamaury | yeah, since you build the bootloader yourself, that's quite a surprise |
16:07:31 | bertrik | pamaury: at least we see a JTAG interface on the clip sport |
16:08:04 | pamaury | cramler: did you use any advanced option when compiling the main build ? |
16:09:55 | cramler | No. Creating rockbox with option 94 for x-fi3, then (N)ormal. |
16:09:58 | cramler | Tried both "make -j" and just "make"... |
16:10:35 | pamaury | have you tried to remove the .rockbox directory entirely and put it back again ? |
16:11:01 | cramler | Yes. |
16:12:02 | cramler | I tried any combination I could think of, using both your/mine bootloader and builds. |
16:13:49 | pamaury | and so whatever you use, your main binary fails but not mine |
16:14:04 | cramler | yes |
16:18:05 | wodz | pamaury: gas macro works as intended |
16:18:33 | pamaury | cramler: can you try this one: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjrxjkd7fh6ynqi/rockbox_zenxfi3.zip |
16:19:13 | pamaury | wodz: great to hear that |
16:20:27 | wodz | its just slightly inconsistent as in C you need to call EXPORT_SYMBOL(name) and in .S you need to call EXPORT_SYMBOL name. I think we have to live with that |
16:20:56 | pamaury | wodz: you can have a C macro whichs the gas macro |
16:21:06 | pamaury | *which calls |
16:21:16 | wodz | ha, apparently |
16:22:50 | wodz | yup, that works :-) |
16:23:26 | cramler | pamaury: The one you uploaded just now also works like a charm. |
16:24:13 | pamaury | did you use our rockboxdev.sh script to build the cross compiler ? |
16:24:22 | cramler | yes |
16:24:25 | | Quit Unhelpful (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
16:24:40 | wodz | Now what left is to write little program to patch symtab hashtable in elf. Should be easy. |
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16:27:40 | pamaury | cramler: is your copy of the git repo up to date ? which is your HEAD revision ? |
16:31:38 | cramler | I am a bit new to git, how can I check that? I cloned it two days ago. |
16:31:40 | | Quit Unhelpful (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
16:33:03 | pamaury | cramler: "git log | head" |
16:33:09 | pamaury | assuming you didn't modify the source |
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16:34:43 | cramler | Thank you! Output as follows: |
16:34:47 | cramler | commit 101d10ff6c6ee6992504700452901fd779cbb26e |
16:34:49 | cramler | Author: Marcin Bukat <marcin.bukat@gmail.com> |
16:34:51 | cramler | Date: Fri Feb 14 08:37:01 2014 +0100 |
16:34:55 | cramler | atj213x: rework crt0.S in test code |
16:34:57 | cramler | |
16:34:59 | cramler | Rework init code so relocation is safe for binaries linked |
16:35:01 | cramler | into cached unmapped KSEG0 region. |
16:35:03 | cramler | |
16:35:05 | cramler | Change-Id: I705ee3f0334f8998237f249a2c3059d6dbe78a43 |
16:36:05 | wodz | ATJ stuff again :P |
16:36:11 | pamaury | lol |
16:36:14 | pamaury | that's a sign ;) |
16:36:44 | pamaury | cramler: I'm confused, I have no idea of why it's failing |
16:36:57 | pamaury | did you try to run "make clean" and restart a full build also ? |
16:38:28 | cramler | Yes, as I retried it on another machine: No change :/ |
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16:39:09 | saratoga_ | given that the sport can do album art and vorbis it probably has embedded dram on the package |
16:39:55 | saratoga_ | like the original clip where Sandisk used a chip with 320kb of ram and then customized it with on package dram |
16:40:10 | ZincAlloy | interesting |
16:41:05 | saratoga_ | but there's no way you can decode vorbis with less than about 300kb of ram for the decoder alone, not counting the os and various buffers |
16:42:21 | pamaury | saratoga_: yeah, maybe the package markings is just "wrong", ie they got a custom chip |
16:42:30 | pamaury | bertrik says there are JTAG pins, that could be useful to check |
16:43:07 | pamaury | cramler: I have to go, but I'll be back tonight. In the mean time, I suggest you try variations of the build, like Advanced (A) and enable things like Log (L) and maybe Debug (D), see if that changes things |
16:43:26 | pamaury | In last resort, upload your build so I can have a look at it |
16:44:23 | cramler | pamaury: I will do that. Thank you so far! |
16:44:24 | pamaury | I think ATJ chips have a recovery mode, someone should try to reach it |
16:44:50 | saratoga_ | Sandisk doesn't seem to want to be clever about software optimization either so my guess is they use the same 8 MB the zip had |
16:45:56 | pamaury | the chip looks awfully small though, can you fit 8MB of ram in it ? |
16:46:01 | ZincAlloy | how would that recovery mode be reached? |
16:46:09 | bertrik | someone ought to record something on our wiki about this |
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16:54:37 | saratoga_ | the sil screening on the PCB says it was outsourced to these guyshttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_Digital |
16:57:35 | rela | copper: i dont mean winter gloves, more like thin mountainbiking-gloves |
16:57:56 | wodz | atj recovery mode can be reached by shorting nand datalines during boot |
16:58:59 | ZincAlloy | so not something we could ask a random user to do |
17:00 |
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17:33:24 | lebellium | no chip on the other side of the Clip Sport :( |
17:33:29 | lebellium | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48014.msg227064/topicseen.html#msg227064 |
17:34:45 | ZincAlloy | and a 220mAh battery |
17:35:34 | bertrik | pretty good to get 25 hours out of that |
17:36:02 | ZincAlloy | that SoC must be rather efficient |
17:40:33 | lebellium | I get 25,5hrs on Samsung YP-U7 with color screen and a 120mAh battery :) |
17:40:46 | ZincAlloy | impressive |
17:46:27 | lebellium | what's the minimum amount of memory needed for Rockbox? |
17:49:28 | wodz | 2M |
17:49:39 | wodz | well thats on arm |
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17:55:20 | lebellium | wodz: do we talk about 88KB for Clip Sport vs 2MB for ARM or am I wrong? |
17:57:50 | wodz | you asked how much ram is needed for rockbox. 2MB is the bare minimum. Old archoses have this BUT the decoding is in hw. AFAIK there are some arm targets also that limited but decoding in software. |
17:58:12 | lebellium | yes sure I understood tat |
17:58:14 | lebellium | that |
17:58:27 | lebellium | but I was asking if 88KB for Clip Sport is the RAM or something else? |
18:00 |
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18:06:13 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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18:13:30 | saratoga | its probably SRAM |
18:13:40 | saratoga | like the 320KB on AMS |
18:13:41 | * | whiskers75 hugs saratoga |
18:14:16 | saratoga | i don't think it was possible to put on die (just on package) DRAM in the era when the fabs for these chips were made |
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18:15:21 | saratoga | haha the mips people are actually excited about this chip: https://twitter.com/MIPSGuru/status/423555386499948544 |
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18:15:27 | saratoga | "look, someone cares about us still" |
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18:33:21 | wodz | saratoga: mips by volume is still impressive. It is doing much better then say power architecture. It is just that arm is doing better :-) |
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18:54:55 | saratoga | better than power is like being better than coldfire :) |
18:55:02 | saratoga | not much of an achievement |
19:00 |
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19:41:23 | toehser1 | http://www.actions-semi.com/en/productview.aspx?cat=87&id=118 has 88Kb as a ROM number, not the RAM number... or am I misreading? |
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19:46:15 | wodz | On-chip RAM0~RAM5 (RAM0:8KB, RAM1~RAM5:16KB) is mapped to MCU program memory space, On-chip Multi-Use RAM1(20.25KB), RAM2(4KB), RAM3(6.75KB) and PCM RAM(8KB) that can be switched to be MCU data memory space or Audio codec Memory |
19:48:42 | wodz | this gives 88kB program memory and 39kB as ram |
19:49:23 | wodz | I can't imagine who came up with such idea. |
19:53:50 | copper | how is that even possible |
19:53:57 | copper | how could they display album art? |
19:54:07 | copper | it must have more RAM somehow, somewhere |
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19:57:27 | cramler | pamaury: In case you read this |
19:57:29 | cramler | My weird build can be found here: |
19:57:31 | cramler | https://www.dropbox.com/s/set573ch8xil6pn/cramler_rockbox.zip |
19:57:35 | cramler | There is a difference of 10256 bytes between our rockbox.creative files, but I dont know why... |
20:00 |
20:06:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
20:18:49 | pamaury | saratoga: how do you know atj2127 has a dram controller ? |
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20:30:58 | pamaury | cramler: indeed your build fails on my device |
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20:51:30 | lebellium | pamaury: bump to get something to try on my X-Fi Style when you have some time :D |
20:52:30 | pamaury | lebellium: I'm about to commit some stuff for the X-Fi Style, the port is pretty complete now, with speaker support |
20:52:41 | pamaury | if you are here tonight I can upload files for you to try |
20:52:41 | lebellium | really? That's a good surprise :) |
20:52:58 | lebellium | nice |
20:53:02 | lebellium | will I have to format the device? |
20:53:14 | pamaury | nope |
20:53:29 | lebellium | there isn't the specific filesystem issue on this model? |
20:53:47 | pamaury | no, fortunately |
20:53:48 | pamaury | at the moment you have to manually enable the speaker in the options (ie it's not automatic when you don't have headphones) |
20:54:24 | lebellium | okay |
20:54:40 | tertu | maybe this isn't super relevant but maybe the archos devices could get "retired" status or something |
20:55:18 | tertu | so they'd keep being built if they still worked but if they broke they'd get dropped |
20:56:06 | pamaury | tertu: our plan is to declare the 3.13 release to be the last one, create a branch for them, backport a few things maybe |
20:56:16 | pamaury | in the main branch, we will likely drop support for them |
20:56:19 | whiskers75 | +1 |
20:56:25 | tertu | that seems reasonable |
20:56:28 | whiskers75 | is rockbox getting anywhere? |
20:56:35 | whiskers75 | it seems pretty dead |
20:56:36 | tertu | what do you mean |
20:56:40 | tertu | it's moving |
20:56:51 | tertu | it runs on devices that still get built |
20:56:58 | whiskers75 | there hasn't been much activity |
20:57:19 | lebellium | that doesn't mean it's dead |
20:57:30 | lebellium | see how many new targets we have thanks to pamaury :) |
20:57:35 | tertu | to some extent |
20:57:38 | whiskers75 | good point ;P |
20:57:55 | wodz | pamaury: you mean 3.14, right? |
20:58:00 | lebellium | for sure there are fewer active developers but pamaury is doing the job for 10 people lol |
20:58:06 | pamaury | we are less and less active, that is true but mostly because there are less and less (interesting) targets to port to |
20:58:18 | tertu | this is sort of a stupid question but |
20:58:20 | whiskers75 | DAPs are dying |
20:58:27 | tertu | i'm sad about that |
20:58:32 | whiskers75 | :( |
20:58:33 | tertu | DAPs are nice |
20:58:54 | whiskers75 | I use my sansa less now because of spotify, rdio, google, etc |
20:58:59 | tertu | and i don't think enough people realize how nice they are |
20:58:59 | pamaury | cramler: it appears you build env might just work and the revision you chose is buggy :-/ |
21:00 |
21:00:06 | pamaury | cramler: I will commit some stuff pretty soon, you can retry after that |
21:00:10 | whiskers75 | tertu: i know :( |
21:03:56 | cramler | pamaury: Probably you're right... |
21:03:59 | cramler | I will nonetheless try on debian with higher gcc version (downloading debian right now, building gcc on ubuntu would take some hours...) |
21:04:01 | cramler | Thank you for your time :) |
21:06:25 | wodz | cramler: to be clear we support *only* the version of toolchain provided by rockboxdev.sh script |
21:06:41 | pamaury | wodz: he uses the right version, everything is fine |
21:07:05 | pamaury | that's why I was very confused, so I tried the same build with the same version and it fails too so I think that revision is just buggy |
21:07:14 | wodz | pamaury: I know, but now he says he want try newer version of gcc which is asking for troubles |
21:08:41 | whiskers75 | :/ |
21:09:32 | cramler | wodz: Understood that, thank you. |
21:09:54 | pamaury | ah yeah indeed, especially since some recent gcc are known to fail |
21:10:37 | pamaury | cramler: since you are the X-Fi3 user and you probably used the OF, do you know if it can detect when the headphones are unplugged ? |
21:13:00 | saratoga | the page says external memory support, although maybe they mean FLASH |
21:14:48 | whiskers75 | ? |
21:14:51 | wodz | saratoga: they list nand, mmc and spi nor flash |
21:15:54 | * | whiskers75 boots rockbox |
21:16:03 | whiskers75 | Thank you rockbox devs. <3 |
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21:22:27 | cramler | pamaury: It can. |
21:22:30 | cramler | When playback is started with speakers enabled, and headphones are plugged in, it will switch to the headphones. |
21:22:32 | cramler | When the headphones are unplugged, it will switch to the speaker again, but pause playback. |
21:23:30 | pamaury | hum ok, strangely I don't find any GPIO to detect this, I need to investigate this |
21:24:04 | whiskers75 | THE GPIO ADVENTURES |
21:24:50 | | Quit y4n (Quit: Today is the perfect day for a perfect day.) |
21:32:01 | ikeboy | How can I edit an existing plugin on the fuze+ to always boost CPU? |
21:32:41 | ikeboy | It's the textviewer, it's about 6 times as fast loading which would really help for bookmarks near the end of long books |
21:33:47 | pamaury | ikeboy: in theory just add trigger_cpu_boost() and cancel_cpu_boost() somewhere |
21:34:27 | ikeboy | Would you be okay with boosting by default in the textviewer? |
21:37:24 | pamaury | boosting consumes a lot of power so probably not, clever boosting would be much better |
21:37:44 | saratoga | headphone detect is often done by the dac, which then interrupts or at least raises a flag when state changes |
21:38:45 | ikeboy | How about boosting right before seeking to a bookmark and unboosting after? |
21:39:20 | saratoga | you should boost when its needed and unboost as soon as possible |
21:39:28 | saratoga | if it improves performance in plugins its likely ok |
21:40:01 | pamaury | saratoga: on most imx devices it's done a GPIO, the dac has some "short detect" method which could be used but it didn't work on all daps I tried, maybe that's how it work on the X-Fi3 |
21:40:11 | saratoga | ah ok |
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22:06:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
22:11:55 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: New build round started. Revision cefaa46, 250 builds, 33 clients. |
22:15:09 | fs-bluebot | Build Server message: Build round completed after 195 seconds. |
22:16:06 | pamaury | gevaerts: do I have to do something for the X-Fi Style to be built ? I add it to the buildserver/builds file in www/ but it wasn't built in the last round |
22:17:36 | gevaerts | pamaury: no, but looking at your change, you didn't give those three builds unique identifiers... |
22:17:44 | gevaerts | i.e. the third field |
22:18:01 | gevaerts | I don't know what the effects of that will be |
22:18:42 | pamaury | oh damn, I knew I forgot something but couldn't remember what |
22:19:29 | ikeboy | pamaury: can you test g#758 for me? |
22:19:31 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #758 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/758 : Boost CPU before loading operations in textviewer by Avi Eisenberg |
22:19:43 | pamaury | gevaerts: hum wait, my identifiers are unique I think |
22:20:09 | gevaerts | "cat builds |cut -f 3 -d :|sort|uniq -c|sort -n" says not |
22:20:12 | pamaury | gevaerts: ah no you're right |
22:21:01 | pamaury | fixed, I would have expected it to build at least one of them |
22:21:24 | whiskers75 | lol |
22:21:26 | gevaerts | Maybe it did |
22:21:31 | whiskers75 | :p |
22:21:31 | * | gevaerts also laughs |
22:21:36 | gevaerts | Not sure why though |
22:21:52 | * | whiskers75 has had many a trouble with building Rockbox. |
22:22:02 | whiskers75 | Especially on Travis CI :p |
22:22:26 | gevaerts | You mean you've hit many stupid travis ci limitations? |
22:22:32 | gevaerts | Not really our fault... |
22:22:58 | whiskers75 | I know |
22:23:04 | whiskers75 | I'm not blaming you. |
22:23:12 | whiskers75 | I remember... |
22:23:21 | whiskers75 | Build #215 |
22:23:27 | whiskers75 | and it was still broken |
22:26:32 | pamaury | saratoga: does "headphone common short" and "l/r short" detect rings a bell ? |
22:28:42 | saratoga | do the l/r short when you plug in a pair of headphones? |
22:30:52 | pamaury | I don't know, I'm trying to understand what the DAC provides, the doc says it can detect "common mode" short and "l/r short". I tried with common and got nothing, I'm going to try with l/r |
22:31:05 | saratoga | no i guess they would not |
22:31:12 | saratoga | that sounds like some kind of fault detect maybe? |
22:31:55 | pamaury | yeah |
22:32:27 | pamaury | then I wonder how the OF detects the HP |
22:32:59 | lebellium | the Haut Parleur? :D |
22:33:39 | pamaury | Head Phones ;p |
22:34:52 | pamaury | maybe it relies on the bluetooth chip to check that |
22:36:04 | ikeboy | Anyone want to test g#758? |
22:36:05 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #758 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/758 : Boost CPU before loading operations in textviewer by Avi Eisenberg |
22:37:05 | pamaury | ikeboy: I'm quite busy but I'll try to test it tomorrow |
22:37:25 | ikeboy | Thanks |
22:39:10 | saratoga | that should be safe i think |
22:39:21 | saratoga | i assume boost just does nothing on application builds? |
22:39:37 | lebellium | Why do text files need a CPU boost? Oo |
22:40:16 | ikeboy | When you load a bookmark it takes about 6 times faster with a boost than without on fuze+ |
22:40:36 | lebellium | oh |
22:40:55 | ikeboy | It was annoying me that to continue reading I'd have to wait a minute to load |
22:40:59 | lebellium | I wouldn't have thought that is so demanding |
22:41:23 | ikeboy | 1 min vs 10 seconds is significant |
22:41:31 | lebellium | indeed |
22:42:47 | pamaury | hum maybe it relies on the video dac instead |
22:46:03 | pamaury | indeed the video dac jack detect seems to work |
22:48:59 | pamaury | however I'm not sure the OF uses this |
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22:57:12 | cramler | pamaury: Can I help somehow? |
22:59:20 | pamaury | saratoga: haha, apparently they do it using the adc |
22:59:47 | pamaury | they wired a channel to measure <something> which is high when inserted and low when it's not |
22:59:59 | pamaury | cramler: I committed a few things, you can retry a build |
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23:01:47 | wodz | pamaury: this is not that uncommon idea |
23:04:06 | pamaury | but why a LRADC ? can't you just wire something a GPIO ? that's simpler no ? |
23:07:44 | cramler | Maybe they mean to make it complicated? Nintendo uses to release new wii firmware regularly just to keep homebrew out. |
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23:15:53 | lebellium | pamaury: I'll go to bed now. I'll try it on the X-Fi Style tomorrow if you had time to write the install instructions by then |
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