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#rockbox log for 2014-03-15

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02:24:27fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 915bc09, 253 builds, 31 clients.
02:27:59fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 213 seconds.
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11:04:33kugeljhMikeS: hey. you semaphore idea worked out
11:04:57kugeljhMikeS: also I posted a reply to your buffering.c patch
11:15:37jhMikeSNiiiiice...I just replyed to the reply
11:18:44kugeljhMikeS: in that race condition buf_widx wasnt advanced as it should. someone called bufopen() for PACKET_AUDIO (=> add_event() increments buf_widx by a large amount), however at the next bufopen() call (for ID3) buf_widx only incremented very little
11:19:45kugeli know i'm doing unsupported stuff here but I would like to get to a point where preemption is supported for a subset of rockbox (playlist, playback, buffering and codecs)
11:36:42 Join tweek_ [0] (
11:37:17jhMikeSthat's sort of what I'm doing anyway but my current approach with it is "do as I please". add to that, the disk subsystem. alot of drivers are already ok. that main UI, I actually forced single-threaded
11:37:20tweek_hi there, is there a way in the file browser to sort by modification date?
11:38:23kugeljhMikeS: single threaded ui is sensible
11:38:31copperGeneral Settings → File View → Sort Directories / Files
11:38:42kugelbut the ui thread often messes with data of other threads and vice-versa
11:39:25kugeljhMikeS: perhaps we can cooperate/coordinate our efforts?
11:41:34tweek_copper: awesome, thanks!
11:41:53kugelfor example, a grey area is playlists. most of of the playback API is meant to be user-accessed (ui thread) but the playback engine also calls some playback api (e.g. on track change). this results in concurrent (r/w) access to current_playlist
11:41:57tweek_all: rockbox is freaking awesome!
11:43:48jhMikeSkugel: I could send files over. It's kinda rough and nasty right now but it does take care of the bulk of it for the playback system.
11:46:17kugelI would love to see it
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11:46:40jhMikeShowever, I implemented the mrsw lock which actually is supremely useful, which is not available in pthreads?
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11:48:52kugeljhMikeS: pthread has rwlocks (I think these are mrsw but I never used them)
11:48:54jhMikeSkugel: I guess I could make a patch but it has to be applied to the correct revision
11:50:35jhMikeSalot of things don't need serialization exept under certain conditions, like shrinking the buffer or loading a new code page
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11:58:43kugeljhMikeS: have you done anything about playlist yet?
11:59:24jhMikeSkugel:"> (apply to a56f1ca, if I got it right :)
11:59:59jhMikeSkugel: yeah, I did get moving on that too but haven't combed it thoroughly yet
12:00:25jhMikeSkugel: don't bother trying to understand the patch, just apply and look at what you're interested in
12:00:30kugeluhm a56f1ca is...old :)
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12:00:50jhMikeSthat's when I started it and basically forked it
12:03:33jhMikeS...and just started doing whatever, without any of the usual concerns
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12:08:56copperpamaury: did you get my package? Just making sure it didn't get lost.
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12:12:06kugeljhMikeS: i see you adding a lot of mutexes to playlist.c. have you considered a separate thread that serializes access?
12:13:17jhMikeSI had, but then, I thought I'd might just prefer it without that
12:13:52jhMikeSIt's got a thread that I've hated forever and the dircache pointer concept just won't fly any longer
12:14:17jhMikeSand basically, dircache is useless as well as the database
12:17:03jhMikeSI felt I could deal with all that after getting something working nicely
12:17:43pamaurycopper: I will check my letterbox
12:18:34pamauryyes I have it
12:18:34coppernothing I can do if it got lost, anyway :P
12:18:45lebelliumwhat device did you send?
12:18:56copperwith my microsdxc card
12:19:37kugeljhMikeS: will you push g#764?
12:19:39fs-bluebotGerrit review #764 at : Buffering: Remove buf_ridx and buf_widx; these data are verbose. by Michael Sevakis
12:21:33jhMikeSkugel: I want to. I just was waiting in case someone said "wait, don't do it!"
12:22:04kugelyou mention mrsw locks there, do you think they'd be useful for the current rockbox?
12:22:53jhMikeSyes, fat.c would be a good place to synchronize volume mounting (if I may push that fat driver update after some cleaning)
12:24:03kugelif rockbox had these they could be mapped natively to pthread rwlocks in a pthread environment
12:24:40pamaurycopper: can you recall me how to run into the bug ?
12:24:45jhMikeShopefully you can support any twists of the rockbox implementation
12:25:26lebelliumkugel: another user with exactly the same problem as me:
12:26:50kugeljhMikeS: which twists?
12:27:10pamaurycopper: your theme is nice, I just don't like the blueish color overall
12:29:24jhMikeSkugel: writer reentrancy and the writer acquiring read access (which is allowed). I suppose to be equal to pthreads, read reentrancy is required as well.
12:29:56kugelrecursive writer you mean?
12:30:55jhMikeSpthreads doesn't seem to like that
12:31:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:31:25jhMikeSbut permits reader recursion, which the one I've got there doesn't
12:31:50kugeldoesnt seem to be supported
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12:32:23kugelis that necessary?
12:32:29*jhMikeS is reading the docs about it for comparison
12:33:31jhMikeSkugel: I think it's a fair thing to do so it behaves just like a mutex with a writer
12:33:48kugeli guess you could emulate recursion with a per-thread count (before grabbing the lock)
12:34:30kugelbut I'd be better avoided I'd say :)
12:34:37jhMikeSI know I found writer calling for read useful
12:35:36kugelwell, if you have the wr lock, the rd lock is implicit, isnt it?
12:36:34jhMikeSSure, that's why it doesn't care but phthreads considers it a faux pas
12:37:03jhMikeSnot sure why, I might want to call other public read-locked functions from within a write lock rather than make more code
12:37:48kugelhow about *_l()-style functions?
12:38:12kugelanyway I think that can be emulated as well
12:38:42kugelwriter grabbing read lock
12:39:11jhMikeSlost me. what's *_l()-style functions?
12:39:53kugelfoo() grabs the rdlock and calls foo_l(), the writer calls foo_l() directly
12:40:40kugelhas the other advantage that foo_l() is potentially simplified because it need not to release the lock at every point of return
12:42:18jhMikeSI suppose writer got write lock before foo_l()?
12:42:35kugelyea, of course
12:43:11jhMikeSI was doing that but something started getting more difficult and messy as I recall
12:44:16kugelIMO recursive locks are always hairy, it's best to avoid them if possible
12:44:20jhMikeSI just figured it would be simpler to allow certain implicit things
12:45:11copperpamaury: try my other Googley themes, they're installed
12:45:13jhMikeSsome like 'em, some don't I guess.
12:45:43pamaurycopper: I'm just reading random files, do you have any faster way to trigger the bug ?
12:45:44copperpamaury: to run into the bug, select a song from the database, play, press power to enable soft hold, let it play until playback stops abruptly
12:45:57coppersometimes it takes a few tries
12:46:13pamaurycopper: does it really needs to be played from database ?
12:46:27copperI don't think so
12:46:33copperbut I'm not entirely sure
12:46:55pamauryI managed to trigger it once but it took quite a few tries
12:47:00copperanyway, I would just connect my Fuze+ to my speakers and let a song run for a minute or two, then I would choose another song if I didn't run into the bug
12:47:11kugeljhMikeS: I guess if you implement them for rockbox, you get the say. in the worst case both twists can be emulated on top of pthread rwlocks
12:47:13coppersometimes it's immediate, sometimes it takes a while
12:47:27kugelpretty sure it can be done anyway
12:48:36copperpamaury: it's always faster when I actually NEED the Fuze+ :P
12:48:44copperlike when I go to the gym
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12:48:58copperI always run into the bug, just as I'm coming out of the building :D
12:49:23jhMikeSkugel: I wonder if that's just a manifestation of the way the track threads. Tracking multiple thread recursions in rockbox is kind of nontrivial since things are built to NOT keep track of what a thread owns, to keep speed over having to say, undo a thread from a critical section
12:49:38coppersome variant of Murphy's Law
12:50:15jhMikeSkugel: But, I did start doing that because of having to implement priority inheritance on those, which is less "simple" than mutexes
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13:00:19Water255Sansa Fuze+. Are you guys aware that it does this: With power-on screen set to "Resume Playback", turn player on and as soon as playback starts do a long-press of play button. At this point the player becomes unresponsive for 18 seconds. Seems to get hung up while trying to create a bookmark. (same thing happens if you try to shut down right after power-on).
13:03:45kugeljhMikeS: thinking about it more the emulation would be really non-trivial, because the counts would be per-lock and per-thread
13:03:58kugelso they cannot be easily pre-allocated
13:09:01kugelperhaps a per-lock linked list of writers (initially empty, grows at runtime for each wr lock taken) that holds the thread id and recursion counters could work
13:20:40pamauryWater255: I have hear similar reports, I think it's the long-press part which is important, I don't know why
13:22:04pamaurycopper: I'm really struggling to trigger it ^^
13:23:02copperpamaury: after 3 or 4 songs without managing to trigger it, I reboot the player
13:23:43copperalso, no need to play a song for more than 60-90 seconds
13:23:46Water255pamaury: Okay. Also, if you wake the backlight with any capacitive button, it presses the button several times.
13:24:00copperif you don't trigger it after that long, you won't trigger it with that song
13:24:21copperit usually happens in 60 seconds or less
13:25:06pamauryWater255: yes I know that
13:25:35pamaurythis one is not easy to fix
13:29:15Water255pamaury: Remember the patch you made a few weeks ago to make the Fuze+ hardware buttons work while on hold? Just wondering −− if I do a git pull, will i be warned if one of those files would be altered?
13:29:25jhMikeSkugel: you need a more general implementation, right, without a known number of max threads?
13:30:11kugelwell, either that or a very large number of max threads
13:30:37pamauryWater255: depends on how you pulled the patch, if you really pulled the commit, it will work as long as there are no conflicts (in which case it will tell you)
13:31:10jhMikeSkugel: how large? 32 enough?
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13:32:28kugelhm considering these specific mrsw locks would only be used by rockbox-created threads it need not be large actually
13:32:50kugelthreads of other libraries continue to use normal pthread rwlocks
13:34:05kugelbut where pthread is there is malloc so a cap can be avoided i think
13:36:17jhMikeSkugel: but it's only the one single writer that needs tracking. it says readers are allowed recursion already.
13:37:02pamaurycopper: still no luck, how do you choose the songs ?
13:38:36kugeljhMikeS: so?
13:39:28kugeloh i see, one set of counters is enough, for the current writer that already has the wr lock
13:39:31jhMikeSkugel: there's only that one thread to track
13:40:32jhMikeSthe recursion check is safe outside the write lock anyway, since a thread only sees itself if it actually has it and the "owner" is registered/unregistered within the lock
13:42:14kugelman, it doesnt look like I can convince you to avoid recursion? :)
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13:44:26jhMikeSkugel: shiz, it seems like a lunch-break level task for writer recursion.
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14:11:44pamaurycopper: I must be quite unlucky, I've been trying for the last 30 min, rebooted several times, tried many songs, I only ever triggered it once and it was with your firmware, very frustrating
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15:55:15copperpamaury: I choose a song, wait 90 seconds max, then choose another song from another artist / album
15:55:58copperpamaury: I have no idea if it's relevant or not, but I always lock the player after starting a song
15:56:16copperI can't imagine how that could possibly be relevant, but with weird bugs, who knows
15:57:49copperat least you've triggered it once, so it's not just me :P
15:58:21copperalso, I wouldn't concentrate on that
15:58:37copperjust start a song and do something else
15:58:45copperchange songs every once in a while
15:59:26coppersurely you can find some artists that you like in my collection? :P
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16:16:56copperNP: "Don't Know Why" by Norah Jones (from "Come Away With Me", track 1/14, 2002, Vocal) TL: YT:
16:16:59copperlike that?
16:20:47copperbtw, I don't remember what firmware I left on the Fuze+ before shipping it
16:20:54coppermight be your last debug build
16:21:29copperif in doubt, install one of the debug builds that you made for me, since I know for sure that I managed to trigger the bug with them
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16:28:39ulmutulHorray \o/
16:29:07ulmutulMy first push! g#771
16:29:09fs-bluebotGerrit review #771 at : Fix (unintentional) linkage of HAVE_BUTTON_DATA with HAVE_TOUCHSCREEN by Sebastian Leonhardt
16:29:35ulmutulCan anyone of the devs look over it if this is reasonable?
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17:17:47pamauryulmutul: it looks reasonable, can you explain why you need this ?
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17:43:07ulmutulpamaury: I'm writing a better scrollstrip driver, which is more "high level" and not longer located in "button-target.c". So when button_tick() calls button_read_device(), it fetches the strip position and then calls my driver function (which then creates up and down button events).
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18:14:35pamaurylebellium: do you know which player this is: ?
18:15:05lebelliumpamaury: a shitty Mpman, not a Samsung :)
18:15:29pamaurythat's what I thought ^^
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18:18:12pamaurylebellium: do you know something about the YP-Z3 ?
18:18:27pamaurylike the cpu and codec ?
18:20:13lebelliumpamaury: not much, I don't have the service manual. But I have the recovery tool. Muonizer, which is the same as for F3, R2, W1 and U7
18:21:03ulmutulAnother small one: g#772
18:21:05fs-bluebotGerrit review #772 at : Vibe500: change scrollstrip and button sensitivity to defines by Sebastian Leonhardt
18:25:45pamauryulmutul: you should reach wodz, I think he has a vibe500 and knows about this driver
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18:29:54lebelliumpamaury: the 2012 generation (W1, U7) has a mysterious AIT 508 SoC (ARM 926 CPU) but I don't know about the 2011 generation (Z3, F3, R2).
18:30:44pamauryah yeah, this weird soc no one knows about
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20:29:12pamaurylebellium: what is the difference between the YP-K3 and K3J ?
20:31:05lebelliumpamaury: J means "Janus". This one comes with a MTP firmware. But you can always switch, the hardware is the same
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20:34:26pamauryok thanks
20:42:14lebelliumpamaury: is there something to do with the Q3?
20:44:51pamauryit's a nice player imo, but they stopped selling it
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20:45:26pamaurywhat could be nice is to port rockbox to all those tcc7{70,80} players from Samsung, the hard part is the NAND unfortunately
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20:58:03alexbobpif any fuze+ owners want a really quick script to get youtube videos on your device:
20:58:06alexbobpyoutube-dl -o- "$1" | ffmpeg -i - -s 320x240 -vcodec mpeg2video -b 256k -ab 192k -ac 2 -acodec libmp3lame "$(youtube-dl −−get-filename "$1").mpeg"
20:58:11alexbobp(I named mine "fuze+tube")
20:58:18alexbobpshould work for any other player if you change the resolution
20:58:45lebelliumpamaury: regarding NAND, same problem as for some sony players?
20:58:47alexbobpusage is: "script videourl" and it writes the reencoded video to cwd, and doesn't save the full res video anywhere
20:58:48copperdoes rockbox automatically rotate the video?
20:58:55alexbobpit seems like it does on screens where it makes sense
20:59:02alexbobpthe fuze+ has a vertical screen but it's been working properly
21:00:00alexbobppamaury: I wish they'd make more of the sansa view, it seems like everything good about the fuze+ with better input, other than lack of rockbox support!
21:02:56lebelliumsansa view was not that popular
21:03:08alexbobpon a related note rockbox is crashing when I try to play mpeg videos on my clip zip
21:03:17alexbobplebellium: because the price was ridiculous >_>
21:03:30alexbobpI wish I could get fuzes cheap
21:03:37alexbobpthe fuze+ comes much cheaper because people don't want it :P
21:04:11copperas refurbs maybe
21:05:49pamaurylebellium: yeah, except it's yet another flash translation, so the work has to be done froms cratch
21:06:03pamauryI never got my hands on the sansa view, I'd love to
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21:06:29lebelliumit's very rare in France
21:06:39pamaurybut it's hard to find
21:06:43saratogaanyone done a battery bench on the AMS players lately?
21:07:50lebelliumpamaury: I also need to find an Express :P
21:07:58saratogawould it be possible for us to just have a generic rockbox FTL and disable dual booting for these devices?
21:08:01pamauryyeah the express is the other hard to find one
21:08:22pamaurysaratoga: sure, lorenzo92 is working on this
21:08:30pamaurywe could also use the ipod one
21:09:11saratogawould that pose problems for recovering unbootable devices?
21:09:30saratogaanyway, i got a clip zip, i think i will do an OF and a rockbox battery bench
21:10:00pamaurypossibly, depends on how well the OF can cope with bad flash and reformat it
21:10:10lebelliumpamaury: for me the YH-J70 is one of the best player ever. It's very close to Cowon X5. You may want to have a look
21:11:20pamaurythat's an old player right ?
21:11:40lebelliumyep, 2005
21:11:51pamauryI would need to know the soc inside before even thinking about buying it
21:11:52lebelliumbut the hardware is the same as X5
21:12:47saratogadoes the clip zip OF ever stop showing the charging animation? i'm wondering if its charged enough for a battery bench
21:13:20pamauryurg, coldfire, I'm absolutely not familiar with this one
21:13:54lebelliumpamaury: I know that. But maybe you just need to copy&paste the code :D
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21:15:55gevaertsscorche|sh: what's up with the forums?
21:16:25*gevaerts gets HTTP/1.0 500 Internal Server Error
21:16:44pamaurylebellium: I know but on the other hand I plan to do some work on the samsung ones which are TCC770/80 based, each time you work on a new soc, you need to learn everything about it, that's quickly overwhelming ^^
21:18:18lebelliumI understand :)
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21:22:17fraktorI'm trying to install Rockbox on a Sony walkman. I'm not very experienced, so I tried to use the graphical installer. I'm not seeing any sony MP3 players on the selection list, though. Is there a way to install rockbox on a sony walkman mp3 player?
21:22:41lebelliumfraktor: only on those mentionned on the home page, that means not many
21:24:06fraktorit's one of the NWZ-E360 Series models.
21:24:36lebelliumthen it's possible but not with Rockbox Utility
21:24:55pamauryfraktor: it is not yet supported by the Rockbox Utility
21:24:56lebelliumthe install procedure is here
21:25:09fraktorhypothetically, is it possible to still mount it even if something goes wrong?
21:25:22fraktorI'm currently making a backup of the partition, but I want to make sure I'm able to restore from it.
21:26:21pamauryfraktor: yes but recovery can be tricky, however if you follow the instruction there is no reason for it to fail, just make sure your battery is full enough
21:27:15pamauryI suggest you follow the "Prebuilt" part, that's the simplest: download one file and put it at the root of the device, it will install the bootloader
21:27:33pamaurythen you only need to download rockbox and extract it to the device and you're done
21:28:48fraktorso I put the .rockbox folder in the root of the device.
21:30:07fraktorwhat exactly do I do with the bootloader?
21:31:07pamauryfraktor: you download the file, rename it to, put it at the root of the device, unmount and reboot the device
21:31:21pamauryit should display an update screen and after that you should not have to repeat this step anymore
21:32:00fraktorand if EVERYTHING goes wrong, I can just dd the backup image back to the partition, and it should work?
21:32:44pamauryfraktor: yes, actually the bootloader install will not touch the user partition so even if its fails, your data should be left untouched
21:34:13pamaurygevaerts: forums are down for me too
21:34:41fraktorme as well.
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21:40:55fraktorgah. I'm trying to eject the player, but it says "there is data that needs to be written before the media can be removed." It always says this. Is it safe to unplug it? I mean, since I added the firmware and stuff already.
21:43:09pamauryfraktor: it usually means you still have some explorer/browser window on the device probably
21:43:20pamauryor console
21:47:41fraktorthunar was open, but that's what I was using to unmount it.
21:50:01pamauryin a console you can use "umount -l <path to dev>", works nearly all the time
21:50:09saratogai think that message just means that some process still has an open handle on a file or directory, so could be command line, explorer window, antivirus, whatever else you have running
21:50:19fraktorso I got it to unmount, it said "do not disconnect" for a bit after I did that (I think it was installing firmware) and then it started up normally. I did it again, same thing.
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21:51:04fraktor.rockbox was still there, but not
21:51:53pamauryare you sure it's NWZ-E360 (and not E370 for example) ? You can try again putting the file, sometimes the OF doesn't want to update
21:52:11pamauryIf it still doesn't work, can you go into the OF settings and give me in the unit information the version ?
21:53:07fraktorto find out the version number, I opened an info xml that came bundled with it, and it said it was NWZ-E360.
21:53:28fraktorit's NWZ-364.
21:53:44pamauryI mean the firmware version, should be 1.00.00 for example
21:54:27pamauryok, then it should work (OF prevents downgrades), try again
21:54:52fraktoroh... I didn't press play/pause for one second.
21:55:12fraktordo I need to do that? :P
21:55:35pamaurynot until you got the bootloader installed
21:55:54fraktorhow will I be able to tell if I got it installed?
21:55:57pamaurywhen you plug your device, you get the OF USB screen right ?
21:56:20pamauryif RB BL is installed, you'll get a black screen with white text displaying some info
21:56:21saratogaif you see the OF you don't have the bootloader installed generally
21:57:40pamauryI'll be afk for a moment
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22:07:48fraktorwell, rockbox refuses to install.
22:08:00fraktoris there another way to do it without piggybacking the firmware upgrade process?
22:09:51saratogai can't think of any targets where there is more than 1 way to install
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22:36:38pamauryfraktor: yes
22:36:43pamauryby doing SCSI vendor commands
22:37:55pamauryyou need to build scsitool (search for it in the NWZE360Port) and then run "./scsitool -w <path to> <path to dev>" (i think, run ./scsitool −−help in doubt)
22:38:18pamauryyou will need to be root or have privileges on the dev devices
22:39:53pamauryactually maybe the E360 cannot install the firmware just by putting it at the root, to be honest I don't remember, they are so many targets so similar and some can some can't
22:44:21lebelliumit worked for me IIRC
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22:49:34BiceHello. I was in here the a few days ago saying that ever since I upgraded to the latest version of Rockbox, my car's iPod adapter stopped working.
22:49:50BiceWell, I just wanted to report, that I'm now about 99.9% sure the problem is not with Rockbox.
22:50:30BiceI think I overloaded the adapter (a USA SPEC PA20-TOY, in case anyone cares) by trying to play a GIGANTIC playlist (over 30,000 songs).
22:50:56BiceI've tried the iPod, with Rockbox, using a different adapter connected to a stereo, and it worked fine.
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22:51:48BiceKind of a shame that I "fried" my car adapter, but I guess I'll have to live with it. Not much point in spending $150 getting a new adapter when the car has over 130,000 miles on it.
22:52:27gevaertsStill sounds a bit weird to me
22:52:32gevaertsMaybe just a coincidence?
22:55:37BiceIt might be coincidence, but if so, it's a *heck* of a coincidence. That adapter worked fine for five or six years, then stopped working just when I tried to play a really huge playlist, so I'm thinking the two are connected.
22:56:00gevaertsMaybe, but I can't really see the mechanism
22:56:15gevaertsCould be just me of course
22:56:25BiceI know that USA SPEC PA20-TOY adapter tries to keep track of the playlist so it can use the car's built-in next/prev buttons, etc. I'm thinking I just overloaded its memory or something.
22:56:58gevaertsWell yes, but a reset should fix that, unless it's *really* badly designed
22:57:34BiceI don't know if there's any way to reset it. I took it out of the car today and tried flipping each of the four toggle switches on the side of it, but it didn't help at all.
23:00:15BiceJust for the heck of it, I Googled "Reset USA SPEC PA20-TOY" and it didn't come up with anything. I couldn't even find a user maual for the thing online. And if it came with one, I must have lost it years ago.
23:01:07BiceAnyway, I just wanted to say that Rockbox probably isn't the culprit, in case anyone was wondering about it.
23:01:10 Quit Bice ()
23:01:22saratogai think more likely something just broke in our software
23:04:35fraktorherp derp.
23:04:44fraktorI found out why I wasn't able to install rockbox on my device.
23:04:56fraktorI was trying to install the OF firmware instead of the rockbox firmware.
23:05:08fraktorwhy do you have two links on the page that are both titled ""
23:09:05 Quit ii_ (Remote host closed the connection)
23:09:41 Join ii_ [0] (~ii@
23:09:59lebelliumbecause we assume people read what's written around ;)
23:12:17fraktorwell now I got it running, but I can't use the play/pause button.
23:13:59 Quit ii_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:14:40fraktorI can kind of navigate the menus, but I can't select anything.
23:14:56lebelliumthat's strange
23:15:52fraktornow I turned it off, and I can't turn it back on.
23:16:16lebelliumare you sure your play button was properly working before?
23:16:24fraktorI used earlier today.
23:18:07lebelliumhum I hope pamaury can help you
23:18:10lebelliumtoo weird for m
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23:25:34fraktordo you have any idea why that would be?
23:32:38fraktoractually, only the arrow keys, the lock slider, and the option/power off keys work
23:32:49fraktorplus, I can't start the thing without plugging it into my computer.
23:36:17fraktorif I use scsitool to reinstall firmware that I KNOW works on the machine, how likely is it that it will be bricked?
23:38:20alexbobpso I updated my bug report on the clip zip quick screen bug... it is really really weird, I wish I could video it
23:44:08fraktoralso, when I try to use scsitool on it, it says "OS error: Bad address Cannot get logical table: -3"

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