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#rockbox log for 2014-03-21

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01:24:38dplekHi, I am new to IRC, so please be patient. I have looked over the guidelines and searched the rockbox site and found a number of posts that sometimes conclude by pointing here.
01:25:42dplekI am running a reletively recent daily build (say late Feb or early Mar. on a Sansa Fuze V1. My symptoms are as follows
01:25:51dplek RockBox: turn on
01:25:56dplek Battery empty! RECHARGE! Shutting down...
01:26:03dplek Fuse Boot: hold [left button] and turn on
01:26:09dplek Battery is too low
01:26:13dplek System shutdown
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01:27:50dplekI have held the power on button for 90+ seconds and various combinations of button presses and plugging into the computer,...
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01:29:11dplekGiven the symptoms, the choices seem to be (1) bricked: NAND flash,... (2) battery (3) sansa firmware (4) rockbox firmware
01:29:56dplekUsing win7 but have access to various Linux on CD/DVD
01:30:09dplekalso have access to XP or earlier,...
01:32:07alexbobpdplek: if you do a hard reset by holding the power switch, and then plug it into the computer while off, does the screen turn on right away?
01:32:53dplekthanks, how long should I hole the power switch before plugging in
01:33:00dplekhole -> hold
01:33:14alexbobp10 seconds
01:33:24alexbobpthat might just be a formality. probably those low battery features are doing a full power down anyways
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01:34:25dplekas long as I hold the power switch, it stays on with the power warning, when I plug it in, no change, when I release the power button, it turns off
01:35:59alexbobptry it but plug it in after releasing the power button
01:37:43dplekok, unplug and unit turns on, the warning, then off. The turned on while not connected, powered up, then warning then shutdown. Then plugged into computer. Unit does nothing (e.g. does not power up).
01:38:54dplekThen wait 30 seconds, then unplug, unit power up, warning, then shutdown.
01:40:17alexbobpchances are your problem is actually the power connector or the usb cable :P
01:40:40alexbobpa device with a dead battery will still run just fine while plugged in
01:40:49alexbobpand firmware has really nothing to do with it, especially since you tried both
01:41:19alexbobpsee if you have another usb cable to test with, and if possible, test with a wall-wart instead of the usb port on a computer
01:43:09dplekI guess that may be good news, not sure. Do you have ideas as to what part may be broken? connector inside fuze itself, cable plug to fuze, cable, usb connector. Unit has been treated very nicely.
01:43:55dplekMethods to perhaps test? Worst would be connector inside fuze.
01:45:37alexbobpwell that's why I just suggested trying other usb cables and usb ports
01:45:45alexbobpyou could try another fuze if you have one :P
01:46:01alexbobpthere's really no way to guess whether the problem is the usb port on your computer, in the fuze, or the cable. all 3 would result in exactly the same behavior
01:46:04alexbobpthe only way is to test
01:47:01dplekMy daughters both have them, but they are elsewhere. I can search the web for a cable diagram, the pitch on the connector is pretty tight, but I may be able to manage that. I see nothing odd (e.g. food) in the connector. The computer port(s) are good.
01:47:48dplekok, thanks, I will get to work on the cable. Much appreciated.
01:58:16dplekalexbob;: one last symtom. unit does power on when I disconnect the cable from the computer. So when you say the power connector, you mean the 2 USB power pins somewhere from the computer to the Fuze? Since the Fuze does "know" that it is being unplugged...
01:58:52alexbobpit powers on when you disconnect? interesting
01:59:08dplekyes, and the warning and shutdown
01:59:09alexbobpbut yeah, it could be that the data pins are working but the power pins are interrupted
01:59:45alexbobpif it's not urgent, your best bet is to wait until you can try your daughters' fuzes with your cable or your fuze with theirs
02:00:59dplekNo tunes on the way to visit, but that is ok.
02:08:22alexbobpwell best of luck!
02:08:31alexbobpdon't you have a smartphone like everyone else these days? :P
02:08:39alexbobpyou could get beyondpod and find a nice podcast
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08:59:05kugeljhMikeS: ping
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09:47:54kugelhm, this actually seems to work
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10:31:16kugelI get "gcc: error: directory-140321": No such file or directory" when I try to compile 3.0
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10:48:10kugelsaratoga: ping
10:51:10kugelwodz: success! I seem to have audio reclaming basically working
10:54:36wodz kugel: do you redo whole buffering or something smarter?
10:54:44wodzI mean on shrink
10:55:42wodzhmm, this will be quite a hit for hdd targets
10:56:39kugelin the worst case yes
10:57:39kugelbut in practice codecs don't change every other track
10:58:35kugelyou could be smarter in the case where the codec gets smaller (and therefore the audio buffer grows) but for the other case there is no feasible way other than redoing the buffering
11:00:19kugelbut tbh, I don't see much benefit from dynamically loading codecs (and dynamic codec buffer size), perhaps we don't do this just yet. I however I do see benefit for plugins or other loadable modules
11:01:46wodzProbably you are right. Especially heap usage in some codecs complicates things.
11:05:32kugelor perhaps do like this: never reduce the codec buffer (+ the minum size is the size for mpa.codec), then you'd only need to rebuffer once for larger codecs and tiny codecs could still benefit
11:06:37kugelbut I don't see a strong need for this right now
11:06:53wodzfor plugins we have the same problem actually. Some plugins call plugin_get_buffer() and build heap (tlsf) on returned pool.
11:15:58kugelall plugins that call plugin_get_buffer() are problematic, regardless of whether they use it for tlsf or not
11:18:39wodztlsf was just an example
11:19:53wodzfor the start we could do buflib allocation on plugin load of the current pluginbuf size
11:23:51kugelyou could also alloc a larger, second buffer just for plugin_get_buffer() (on demand)
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12:16:26copper[Saint]: did you make a theme that uses lists?
12:16:39copperdoesn't look like "iLike" uses those
12:19:47copperI don't see anything about lists in the manual, and the entry on the wiki isn't very clear
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12:30:52kugelsomething is fishy with our mp3 decoder
12:34:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:46:55kugelaha! it's a 64bit issue
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12:53:23wodzkugel: should this surfaced earlier in 64bit sim builds?
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12:53:51kugelit's present in 3.0 (the earliest e200 sim I could build)
12:55:16kugela 32bit sim, as well as the unoptimized C code on ARM, works fine
12:55:36kugelon my 64bit sim it produces distorted sound for some files
12:57:19kugel64bit upstream libmad also works fine
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13:25:45kugelI hope saratoga or another codec guy can help
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13:36:28coppermy iPod Classic no longer crashes when connecting via USB
13:39:47soapas of an intentional code change or as of some overnight magic?
13:40:21kugelcopper: nice to hear
13:40:43copperno idea
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14:27:00copperhow should I file a feature request?
14:27:19copperthe task types on Flyspray are only "bugs" or "patches"
14:27:39Zagorthat is not a mistake... :)
14:27:51coppermeaning, you don't take feature requests without patches?
14:28:11copperI could have sworn I filed a feature request before
14:28:29Zagoryes. we had feature request at one time, but it's really not a good thing since very few requests are ever honored
14:28:59copperI was gonna ask for an "Alternative Settings" menu in Theme Settings, for theme authors to use
14:29:40copperit would have a numerical value, starting from 0 (default theme behavior), and going from 1 to 9 (alternative theme behaviors)
14:30:01copperso that theme authors could test for that with %?if(%St(alternative, = 0)<|>
14:30:25copperinstead of the current hacks that I and other authors use, like testing for %St(statusbar, =, off)
14:30:42copperI don't know if I'm being very clear.
14:31:29copperlet me start over :P
14:31:58coppertheme authors sometimes implement slightly different behaviors like displaying some information, or not
14:32:37copperand to enable those alternative behaviors, they test for the value of some existing setting that doesn't otherwise have any effect on their theme
14:32:49copperand they invite users to change that setting to whatever
14:33:23copperI and others have been testing for the value of "statusbar", for instance
14:33:29copperbut that's merely a hack
14:33:48copperit takes one setting and completely strips it of its original intent / effect
14:34:08amayercopper: for some of my personal themes I put in things like "battery display: graphical/percentage" will change fields that are shown. stuff like that. but i get what your saying and it would be cool that way you dont have to use a work around like mine
14:34:23copperyeah that's teh same thing
14:34:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:35:06copperinstead, I propose to add a setting named "Alternative" in Theme Settings, which would contain an integer between 0 and 9 inclusive
14:35:24copperor "Alternative Behavior" or whatever
14:35:43amayernot to mention some themes including some that I have posted dont respect settings like that anyway
14:35:53coppermine neither
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15:07:50coppercome to think of it, a setting with a single uppercase letter, from A to Z, would be more straightforward to test for, since it wouldn't be subject to the %?if() enumeration bug
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16:22:26coppercan someone give me a technically correct term for whatever happens when boosting volume past 0dB in Rockbox?
16:25:04coppernot necessarily
16:25:25copperif I boost a song by 3 dB and that song has 3 dB of headroom, there shouldn't be any clipping
16:25:41ZincAlloyclipping may occur.
16:25:49copperI'm looking for a single word to warn users about boosting volume past 0dB
16:26:22ZincAlloyI don't think the word you're looking for exists.
16:26:24copperI'm very limited in width
16:26:41copperZincAlloy: is "overdrive" horribly incorrect?
16:27:27ZincAlloyOverdrive sounds more like "musical" distortion to me
16:27:54copperyeah :-/
16:29:39ZincAlloyand it doesn't need to happen either
16:30:10coppermaybe just "boost"
16:30:15copperor "past max"
16:30:43ZincAlloytoo loud.
16:30:48copperI mean, it's not necessarily clear to some users that they shouldn't go past 0dB unless they know what they're doing
16:33:01ZincAlloyvolume in % might be easier to grasp for the average user
16:33:34ZincAlloy"danger zone"
16:33:34copperI should just flash "TROP BEAUCOUP! TROP BEAUCOUP!"
16:34:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:34:37ZincAlloy"If you're hearing this, you're not hearing much anymore anyway"
16:35:15copperseriously though, I'll just add "(maximum)" for 0dB, and "(past maximum)" for > 0dB
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16:35:55coppererm, not the sexiest wording…
16:36:14ZincAlloypast maximum sounds like an oxymoron
16:36:30copper"extra boost"?
16:36:46ZincAlloyor maybe "clipping threshold" for 0dB?
16:36:47ikeboyWhy shouldn't we go past 0dB?
16:37:02copperikeboy: clipping
16:37:34ikeboySometimes when there's background noise I can't hear unless I pit it that high
16:38:02ZincAlloyand the clipping well help the music cut through :D
16:43:32copperactually, "warning: clipping" fits
16:47:20copperthat's the most reasonable warning, I guess
16:48:47ZincAlloyor "warning: may clip"
16:50:07copperyup, that fits too (barely)
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17:25:04wodzHow would you understand this message on Sansa clip though? :-)
17:25:58coppertook me a second there
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18:24:48copperI don't know what to think of alternating lines
18:24:55copper%t(n) stuff
18:25:34ZincAlloyconfusing, but a nice way to make use of limited screen real estate
18:25:35copperit's kind of annoying having to wait even just 2 seconds for the other line to show
18:28:58copperI'll make it user settable with the "status bar" setting hack
18:29:16copperit's the kind of stuff that's difficult to decide for others
18:29:26ZincAlloyexactly what we need - more settings LOL
18:29:32copperI've tried so many combinations at this point, I'm super confused
18:30:06*copper throws his iPod out the window
18:30:44amayer*jumps out window to try and get it*
18:33:05copperimagine working at Apple and struggling with that kind of usability concerns 10 hours a day for a year
18:33:15copperoh the headaches…
18:33:32amayeryeah. I do like the hardware tho
18:34:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:35:23ZincAlloydoing that kind of thing for apple would have been easy a couple of years ago. Just make something that steve likes. everyone else just has to use what steve likes.
18:36:29copperyeah but if my former obsessive boss is any indication, I bet Steve Jobs would constantly change his mind
18:36:50copperand make his guys try a dozen different things
18:36:58copperonly to go back to square on
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18:40:50cramlerpamaury: Can you confirm, that in the current build the Power button does not work?
18:40:53copperI could use some feedback
18:41:50amayercopper: im downloading now
18:44:23ZincAlloydoesn't sound like your average obsessive boss: more like some freak obsessive boss who tends to be right about things.
18:44:51coppermy former boss is definitely no Steve Jobs
18:45:23cramlerpamaury: On the Zen XFi3.
18:45:26cramlerIt works in OF, but rockbox (fresh pull) wont do anything for me.
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19:00:04amayercopper: my only gripe with it is that it displays next track... but that is personal preference. for a minimal theme I like it.
19:00:16amayerI changed the colors and that works fine
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19:01:01copperamayer: you can have it display codec information instead, as described in the text file
19:01:15copperthe 000-README.txt file that I linked you to
19:01:29amayerI saw that.
19:01:33copperor would you rather not have that line at all?
19:03:04amayerwhen I set statusbar:top it works
19:03:18 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)
19:04:13coppersure it does :)
19:04:33amayerI think I like that better
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19:05:19amayeryay now I can have the pink & black theme ive always wanted!
19:05:52amayerI may stick with googley-classic-blue tho
19:05:58amayerbut this is a great alternative
19:06:10amayer(when i feel like having a simple screen)
19:06:46copperI also prefer displaying codec information
19:07:10copperbecause then it reads "FLAC 429 kbps" on my iPod and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling :)
19:09:21copper(lossyFLAC collection)
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19:34:51copperamayer: I'm going to reverse the default setting, to display codec information by default
19:34:59copperbecause 1) that's the way I like it
19:35:07copperand 2) that's also the default for the Googley themes
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19:52:23pamaurycramler: ping
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20:12:15cramlerpamaury: pong :D
20:12:35pamaurycramler: can you go into the debug screen: system > debug > HW info > button
20:14:19cramlerpamaury: Yes
20:14:42pamauryyou should see many things written and among them a line with "power"
20:15:06pamaury(I'm not sure it fits the screen so maybe it won't work)
20:15:39cramlerpamaury: Yes, I see it, and it seems to react to the power button
20:15:58pamauryyes, it should change the value displayed from 0 to 1 or 3
20:16:03pamaurywhich one it does ?
20:16:33cramlerpamaury: 1
20:16:42pamauryhum, then it should work
20:17:51cramlerpamaury, Only, nothing else reacts. Not the backlight, not the plugins, and no shutdown...
20:19:14pamaurycramler: you are sure the line displays raw=1 when you slide power ?
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20:19:59pamauryah wait you are right, I cannot turn off the player with HEAD :-/
20:21:06cramlerSame for the one you provide (from
20:26:01pamauryok I will check, that's a little bit weird
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21:18:16cramlerpamaury: Um, I finally learned how to bisect, and I think I found the first bad commit.
21:20:31pamaurywhich one is it ?
21:25:11pamaurywhich date ?
21:25:33cramlerSat Feb 22 21:22:45 2014 +0100
21:25:50pamaurycramler: ah lol
21:25:57pamaurythere is a trivial bug
21:26:20cramlerpamaury: ?
21:31:41pamaurycramler: in firmware/target/arm/imx233/creative-zenxfi3/button-zenxfi3.c, line 162
21:31:52pamaurythere is an "if(power_ignore_counter >= 0)"
21:31:55pamauryif should be <0
21:32:05pamaurysorry <=0
21:32:40 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)
21:32:43 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)
21:36:54cramlerpamaury: Writing thousands of lines of code just to have weirdness ensue with one wrong sign - and then being able to track it down so fast.
21:36:56cramlerI take my hat off to you and other programmers!
21:38:48pamaurythat was a stupid mistake, I'll commit a fix tomorrow
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22:48:46cramlerpamaury: Uploaded the keymap patch you requested.
22:48:48cramlerIn this one, the core keymap is untouched (functionality-wise).
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22:55:01pamaurycramler: great, I'll check quickly this one, did you try all plugins on device ?
22:57:04cramlerYes,I did.
22:57:07cramlerOnly, I was not able to get picture flow to work (it can be started and ended, but no track can be selected yet)
23:00:13pamauryok, what is the issue ?
23:00:50pamaurymissing keys or action don't have any effects ?
23:04:07cramlerpamaury: It was both, but wait, I guess I made a little mistake here.
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23:29:03cramlerWith my mistake being that there was no mistake :P
23:29:04cramlerI hope he is not angry...
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