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#rockbox log for 2014-04-09

00:04:53kugelgevaerts: uh evil!
00:05:16*gevaerts hopes he won't get his commit access revoked over this!
00:05:30kugelrfa uses the the audio buffer to store the list and then starts playback
00:05:42gevaertsAh, right...
00:05:46gevaertsSounds like fun :)
00:07:36kugelhm, plugins have no way to release the audio buffer currently
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00:29:37kugelyay, one major step towards a proper (well, less improper) playlist library interface
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00:57:58dfktkugel (logs), make sure you add a "clear/delete playlist" function ;)
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05:25:49 Join N0Lif3 [0] (
05:27:13N0Lif3I took the plunge and install Rockbox onto my Sansa Clip+. For some reason it isn't keeping bookmarks of my podcasts. Let's say I listened to an hour of a two hour podcast, then I stopped and loaded a song. When I go back to the podcast it starts back at the very beginning instead of continuing at an hour in.
05:27:21N0Lif3I set all the bookmark settings to Yes
05:27:36N0Lif3why isn't Rockbox remembering my place I was at in a podcast?
05:30:11N0Lif3I kinda figured it out. I have to manually make a bookmark by tapping the power button. That's kinda dumb
05:30:31N0Lif3In the stock firmware, it made these bookmarks automatically
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05:38:10JdGordonN0Lif3: i think you're using bookmarks incorrectly
05:38:17JdGordonhave you read the bookmark section of the manual?
05:40:02N0Lif3No, I'm just coming from having used the stock Sansa Clip+ firmware for over two years.
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05:41:50alexbobpwell rockbox isn't designed to mimic sandisk's firmware :P for starters, sandisk players weren't even the first build targets
05:42:03alexbobpthere's a setting to auto-bookmark, let me poke at my player so I can get you the details :)
05:42:25alexbobpbecause I agree it's a good setting, I dunno why it's not on by default but since it's available I don't mind
05:43:28N0Lif3one reason that I was compelled to try Rockbox was because I had heard you could adjust the volume in the settings using the face-buttons, which it does brilliantly. The volume control buttons on the side broke some time ago, so until now I've been stuck on a single volume setting
05:44:14alexbobpgeneral > settings > bookmarking > bookmark on stop
05:44:27N0Lif3Ive set all of those to yes
05:44:38alexbobpalso sorry to hear about your volume rocker, that sounds frustrating!
05:44:44alexbobpoh wait I see
05:44:49alexbobpyou're trying to skip tracks but without stopping playback?
05:44:53alexbobpand you still want it to bookmark?
05:45:33alexbobpah yes tapping the power button to stop playback
05:45:35alexbobpyou did mention it
05:46:25alexbobpI have to agree with N0Lif3, it would be nice to have more failsafe bookmarking... I had to disable track skipping just so I didn't lose my place skipping tracks by accident
05:46:58alexbobpthough I wouldn't call it dumb, just a missing feature that would be nice :P
05:47:26N0Lif3yeah, there are times with the stock firmware when I'd accidentally hit the forward button to skip to the next podcast and then I could just hit back to the podcast I was listening to and it would continue right from where I left off
05:48:38N0Lif3I wonder if I'm going to get better or worse battery life with Rockbox. only time will tell
05:49:14alexbobpI've heard better but I never bothered to test it :P
05:49:21alexbobpthese things get such ridiculously good battery life anyways
05:49:37N0Lif3not really. The Clip+'s battery life is actually pretty awful
05:49:42alexbobpN0Lif3: sorry to recommend just a workaround, but you can disable track skip (and then go over to the playlist menu to skip)
05:49:48alexbobpoh? how awful?
05:49:53N0Lif3It goes like 8hours
05:50:23alexbobpI wonder if your battery itself has wear and tear on it
05:50:35N0Lif3it's always been this way.
05:50:37alexbobpif not, you're probably gonna see it somewhat better with rockbox
05:50:44alexbobpthough not hugely better
05:50:54alexbobp8 hours of continuous runtime isn't what I call horrible xD
05:51:03N0Lif3My old 2nd iPod Nano was incredible. It felt like the battery lasted forever. I would only ever charge it for like 5-10 minutes whenever I sync'd new podcasts and it would go a week of rigorous podcast listening
05:51:17alexbobpoh well apple products are a whole other category when it comes to battery life :P
05:51:35alexbobprockbox will bring it closer to 10 or 12 hours I think
05:51:44N0Lif3that'll be nice
05:51:45alexbobprockbox does have a battery stats logger if you want to try it
05:52:06N0Lif3I saw. It claims I'm going to get 13 hours, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt
05:52:17alexbobpI wouldn't be surprised
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05:52:43N0Lif3is there a "lock screen" function?
05:53:22N0Lif3holding the home button used to turn on lock screen mode, it doesn't do it anymore
05:53:41N0Lif3holding the home button shows options for shuffle and repeat
05:54:39alexbobpsimultaneously hit center and back
05:54:45alexbobpon the wps
05:55:04N0Lif3that did it
05:55:06alexbobpgod I miss hold switches, RIP
05:56:24N0Lif3The Clip+ really doesn't need Rockbox. The stock firmware already plays every format. I got my FLAC albums on my Clip+
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06:07:21alexbobpwell if you don't need rockbox then good for you :P
06:07:28alexbobpI wouldn't buy these things if it weren't for rockbox
06:08:08alexbobpit's about a lot more than just codec support (and yes, we should applaud sandisk for that, though I was using rockbox on sandisk players before sandisk added vorbis and flac, so mleh!)
06:11:06N0Lif3everything about Rockbox seems like an upgrade except for the way it deals with podcast bookmarking.
06:19:20alexbobpyeah I do agree with you there
06:19:29alexbobpbut you'll get better responses saying what you just said and asking for a feature
06:19:37alexbobpthan coming in and slamming rockbox and calling it stupid :P
06:20:12alexbobpeg the dev who told you you're doing it wrong and said to rtfm and went back to sleep :P
06:20:17alexbobp(I'm not a dev, just a fellow user)
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06:21:40N0Lif3rockbox is faster. it navigates a podcast faster and I can navigate through a list of all of my songs much faster
06:22:44alexbobpyeah, I love it... the ui takes learning, but it's not designed to ship on devices, it's designed for power users
06:22:52alexbobponce you know the ui, it makes stock firmwares all seem so clunky
06:26:34JdGordonalexbobp: I didnt go back to sleep :) I went off for lunch, but yeah, bookmarks is a feature I've never used so not even sure how it is expected to work, hence the rtfm comment
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06:26:54alexbobpoh well fair enough :P
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06:27:04alexbobpin present form it works only when you manually stop playback
06:27:09N0Lif3JdGordon if you could make bookmarking as perfect as it is in Sansa Clip+'s stock firmware. I would love you forever
06:27:14alexbobpI suspect for the most part only podcast listeners use that feature, but if you listen to podcasts it's great
06:27:20alexbobpyeah I'm with N0Lif3
06:27:25alexbobpso if you want to have two new best friends... :P
06:27:27N0Lif3I've been a podcast listener since 2005
06:27:33alexbobppodcasts are the best
06:27:36JdGordonsorry, already married :p
06:27:47alexbobptwo new creepy internet stalkers then!
06:27:48N0Lif3she wouldn't have to know ;)
06:27:49alexbobpwhat could go wrong
06:28:03N0Lif3jk, just messing with ya
06:28:12alexbobpyeah we'll be good
06:33:29N0Lif3While listening to a podcast, if I navigated to a song/other podcast and start it, it would make a bookmark of that podcast I was listening to. When I go back to that other podcast, it would ask if I wanted to continue where I was or start at the beginning.
06:34:08N0Lif3just explaining it so perhaps you could consider adding this logic to Rockbox
06:34:53JdGordoncheck the manual.. I thought it does that already
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06:44:39N0Lif3I've looked at the manual and tried messing with it with all of the bookmarking settings set to Yes and it doesn't function like the stock firmware does. I can only get it to save a bookmark manually by tapping the power button once
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06:53:10MisanthroposN0Lif3, you could easily add a menuentry for rockbox like auto update bookmark on skip or so
06:56:49Misanthroposbut i would not like the idea if skipping through a playlist of bookmarking every single one...
06:58:28Misanthroposa feature like that should then check playtime and consider it before setting a bookmark before skipping
06:59:33N0Lif3listen to podcasts on a Clip+ with the stock firmware for a while and you'll fall in love with just how perfect it is with bookmarking. It isn't messy in the slightest
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07:03:33Misanthroposi never really used the stock firmware... except to copy files while usb support was not ready...
07:04:07Misanthroposand despised the database updating afterwards
07:04:41Misanthroposbut again: you could try to hardcode autobookmarking .. should be easy
07:05:22N0Lif3the stock firmwares database updating is fast on the latest firmware. I remember it used to be slow, but believe me it's almost instant now
07:05:46Misanthroposon a 64gb sdcard? i doubt that :)
07:06:33N0Lif3how much music are you adding? how often? I add hundreds of megs of podcasts on a daily basis and it's instantaneous
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07:07:44Misanthroposi prefer to unmount mine an have it run :)
07:08:10Misanthroposbut i think i actually could be a good idea to have bookmarking on skip configurable
07:09:07Misanthroposi do listen a lot to audioplays and sometimes skip by accident...
07:10:54Misanthroposwill sleep on that :)
07:10:56Misanthroposgood night
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09:04:17fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 9576134, 253 builds, 30 clients.
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09:15:25kugelalexbobp: I think bookmarks are saved on automatic stop also
09:15:31kugelor at least there a setting for it
09:16:48kugeloh hmm I see. sounds like a bug to me although I also didnt develop the bookmarks feature
09:18:50kugelin case "stopped and loaded a song" meant starting a new playlist, e.g. by selecting a new file in the filebrowser
09:18:59kugelnot sure what should happen if you just skip in the playlist
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09:57:22kugeljhMikeS: ping
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10:15:16jhMikeSkugel: quickly, I'm off really soon :)
10:16:01kugeljhMikeS: oh hmm. I'm working on getting the filetree out of playlist.c. this requires re-doing the dirplay/auto-dirskip logic
10:16:34kugelI thought I could use the BUFFER_LOW event to trigger a dirskip but I found it doesnt fire on end-of-playlist. is there a specific reason for that?
10:16:48*gevaerts wants to buy kugel lots of beers for this work
10:17:12GodEatercan someone just confirm I've not lied to a colleague at work
10:17:18kugelgevaerts: do it in warsaw :)
10:17:22GodEater128GB microSDs do work ok in the sansa clip zip right?
10:17:28jhMikeSkugel: Because it's not really expecting more data
10:17:29gevaertskugel: I'll do my best!
10:17:48kugelGodEater: I remember another successful report
10:17:52gevaertsGodEater: I think you didn't lie, *on this occasion* :)
10:18:09kugelmanual reformat to fat32 is required of course
10:18:21GodEaterkugel: ah yes - good point!
10:18:36*GodEater will convey this info to the intereted party
10:18:40gevaertsAlso changing the partition type, maybe?
10:18:42*gevaerts isn't sure
10:19:01kugeljhMikeS: it looks like playback.c explicitely zeros the watermark (which disables the event entirely) and instead uses the codec finished event to initiate dirskip
10:20:01kugelI would think the BUFFER_LOW event is more suitable since it's designed so that new audio can be buffered without trouble
10:21:31jhMikeSit shouldn't initiate dirskip before the codec is done
10:22:15jhMikeSBUFFER_LOW just means the buffer is low, not that anything completed
10:24:03kugelah hm, i see. the buffer_low could fire before the codec is finished, and since dirskip replaces the playlist at once the audio would be cut off
10:24:42GodEaterthis sounds nightmarish :D
10:24:47kugelalright. assuming I changed it so the new dir would be added to the playlist (and the currently playing track changed to be queued so it's automatically removed), then BUFFER_LOW would be better?
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10:26:02jhMikeSit does suppress it when it reaches the end of all data of course since end of data shouldn't trip the event
10:26:43jhMikeSIt's not really in need of more and since it's a new playlist, it's a new playback sequence altogether
10:28:49kugelI want to find a way to hook up the dirskip mechanism outside of playlist.c
10:30:09jhMikeSthe auto or manual one?
10:31:06kugelwell, the manual one goes through playback.c even before playlist.c which I would also like to get rid of
10:31:55jhMikeSare you trying to build the next play sequence so that it's not really a new playlist but just adjusting the current one?
10:32:45kugelI think the mechanism should use a playlist API to insert the new tracks (or replace the whole playlist), _when_ it's notified in some way that playback is out of data
10:33:25kugelI'm not trying anything yet but changing the current playlist is a possiblity
10:33:34kugel(is still exploring)
10:33:57jhMikeSso, basically, the inter-playlist hacks in playback.c will be able to go....hmmm
10:34:30jhMikeSthere's some nasty stuff because it can't look ahead across a playlist boundary
10:34:47jhMikeSit would actually simplify it if that crap could go away
10:36:53jhMikeSif as far as playback knew, it was just playing one long playlist it would only suppress that at the actual last track to play before stopping
10:39:25jhMikeSif playlist_peek never returns 0, it just goes along like nothing
10:39:32kugelplayback would still need to handle the situation that it sees the end-of-playlist even though tracks will be added towards the end
10:40:58jhMikeSaudio_flush_and_reload_tracks would do that
10:41:14kugelthat the playlist didn't actually end is not known until just before the last song ended (even when the mechanism is moved elsewhere)
10:42:08kugelplaylist_peek is called well before that
10:42:54jhMikeSof course, it's doing stuff seconds ahead of what's being heard
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10:44:12jhMikeSit does a backout of the end playlist case
10:45:56kugeli see
10:47:13kugeljhMikeS: speaking of flushing. is it expected that the whole playlist is rebuffered even if a song is added to the end of the playlist (well after the last buffered song)?
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10:48:09kugele.g. if I have 100 tracks, the 2nd one is playing, and I add one to the very end (101 songs now). the whole buffer is rebuffered which seems unecessary
10:49:21kugeli see playlist.c calls audio_flush_and_reload_tracks() for all insertions because it can't know better, but I would think playback.c can know better?
10:51:00jhMikeSnothing tells it what got done so I didn't deal with that at the time since it wasn't about rewriting that part of it
10:52:37jhMikeSI guess it would depend upon whether rebuffering would actually result in discarding already-played tracks. if what's buffered is short of whatever was added at the end, it wouldn't have to rebuffer anything yet
10:53:53kugelokay so it's kind of expected for now
10:57:16jhMikeSright now it might rebuffer whatever it already has buffered if it's on the first track, otherwise the buffering would start at the after the 2nd, 3rd, etc. and continue until full
10:58:37pixelmacould "it looks like playback.c explicitely zeros the watermark (which disables the event entirely) and instead uses the codec finished event to initiate dirskip" be a reason for FS #11355 ? Too bad this work probably won't help hwcodec anymore :(
10:58:39fs-bluebot Auto-Change Directory crashes hardwarecodec players (bugs, new)
10:59:34jhMikeSpixelma: since HWCODEC doesn't use playback.c, I don't think there's any relationship :(
11:00:01pixelmaah, ok
11:00:42jhMikeSI did try to spot why that could happen (looking at mpeg.c) but couldn't see it
11:01:43kugelhm it's almost 4 years old but I still never saw this bug
11:03:01jhMikeSkugel: If the playlist code could hint about what changed, then I'm sure playback could make more intelligent rebuffering decisions
11:03:01pixelmaif you don't use "Auto-Change Directory" on a hwcodec player... IIRC it's still there and I remember seeing reports of it in the forums every now and then
11:04:15kugeljhMikeS: I don't feel like introducing a direct playlist<->buffering relationship
11:05:07kugelit's not a huge problem right now imo. I was just curious
11:05:33jhMikeSIsn't there one already?
11:07:06*jhMikeS doesn't see how there _cannot_ be one since buffering order and playlist order are the same
11:08:01kugelI mean playlist never calls buffering APIs and the other way around
11:08:08kugelthere is always the playback layer between
11:08:32jhMikeSsure, but flush_and_reload tracks can pass a hint as to where the change happened
11:13:07jhMikeSbasically it just has to know if what it already buffered is now invalid; if it's outside that range it will see it when it calls playlist for more
11:14:13kugelsounds doable
11:16:02jhMikeSgtg now. later
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11:25:14wodzkugel: can you fill possible DevCon dates? The earlier we set the date the highest probability the event will actually happen
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11:29:31wodzbah :/
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16:03:03N0Lif3I was on here last night and talked about how I have Rockbox on my Sansa Clip+ now. I'm using it because it offers volume control with facebuttons as my built-in volume buttons on the Clip+ are broken.
16:04:27N0Lif3I got an idea. When I'm playing a song, when I hold the Hold button it shows a screen where I can enable Shuffle and Repeat by pressing left or right respectively. On this screen, pressing Play(up) and Menu(down) do nothing. I was wondering if it's possible to modify this screen for me so up and down will adjust the volume
16:04:35N0Lif3this would be absolutely perfect for me
16:05:22N0Lif3is there a file I could edit to make this a real thing?
16:06:17 Quit Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:08:21gevaertsN0Lif3: that's the quickscreen, and yes, that's configurable
16:08:41 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
16:09:01gevaertsGo to the setting you want, and instead of entering it hold the dentre button and pick "Set as ... quickscreen item"
16:09:34gevaertsYou can pick all four of them
16:10:13gevaertsAnd if you set two opposite sides (left and right, or top and bottom) to the same setting, they will act as up and down for that setting
16:10:13 Quit copper (Quit: ZNC -
16:11:43N0Lif3that was easy
16:13:07N0Lif3I set Volume to quickscreens up and down, but it's backwards. Pressing up is lowing the volume and down makes it louder. Is there an easy way to swap this?
16:13:25N0Lif3nevertheless. I'm happy that I have accessible volume controls again
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16:13:38gevaertsHmmm, not sure if that's possible...
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16:55:31copperwhy is my iPod Classic charging over USB even after I set "Charge During USB Connection" to "no"?
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17:07:25kugelcopper: the setting doesnt control charging, but UMS mode
17:07:38kugelso it's either charge or charge+usb storage
17:07:47IgoRCLhi to all
17:08:02IgoRCLis there any plan to realese stable Rockbox for Android...
17:08:15IgoRCLcopper : oh, hi there!
17:08:46IgoRCLuntil now there is not official Android channel (or fork)
17:08:51kugelIgoRCL: no, unfortunatelly not
17:09:23kugelthe port isn't ready for the masses and will probably never be without substantial effort
17:09:40kugeland we don't currently have the manpower for this effort
17:10:58IgoRCLwell, it's a little bit buggy... I''ve learnt how to avoid crashes. I should always get back to Android main window ...and never let a Android window when close the phone
17:11:18IgoRCLthis way it never crashes
17:11:19copperkugel: I'm sorry, what?
17:11:37nrgive used android rockbox some
17:11:38IgoRCLcopper: Man, whats upp?
17:11:39copperkugel: "This option lets you control whether the player should charge during the USB connection and hence draw the full 500 mA. Turning it Off is recommended if the player is connected through an unpowered USB hub or a laptop port."
17:11:49nrgive noticed no problems with it yet
17:11:51copperthat's from the iPod Video manual
17:12:05kugelcopper: hm. then I mixed it up, sorry. gevaerts? ^
17:12:24IgoRCLkugel: Thank You for information
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17:43:48wodzkugel: ping
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18:02:12kugelwodz: pong. I'll fill the dates soon
18:05:47wodzkugel: good
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