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#rockbox log for 2014-04-18

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10:24:07coppersoap: 14-Nimbus
10:39:45coppercan someone please try PodTwo on an iPod Video?
10:40:37copperon this picture, it seems that the transparency doesn't work in any of the images
10:40:51copperthe top left and top right icons, and the bottom progressbar
10:42:32copperthey're fine in the sim
10:42:40coppermaybe the guy just has an old Rockbox build
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11:28:09copperindeed the guy is running Rockbox 3.13
11:28:28copperkugel: hi, could you take a look at FS #12973 if you have some time?
11:28:30fs-bluebot %Vs(invert) partially fails with centered or right-aligned content (bugs, unconfirmed)
11:30:39kugelcopper: I think it's normal that %Vs only starts when the text starts
11:31:20copperthis is why we need guidelines for the theme markup
11:31:57copperoh, you mean the other thing
11:32:11kugelCustomWPS is a bit ambigious but it refers to "text style"
11:32:16copperkugel: so I can't have an inverted viewport with centered or right aligned text?
11:32:48kugelwhat about Vf/Vb?
11:33:04copperI've tried everything
11:35:15kugelwell, it can be fixed, should be trivial due to my put_line() work
11:35:53copperer, I mean I was trying to use the fg and bg colors from the cfg file
11:36:18copperin order to make a theme with which you could change the main color by using the Rockbox color picker
11:37:18kugel%St ?
11:37:33copperjust %dr() and %Vs(invert)
11:38:08copperanything that uses the foreground color
11:38:51kugeli mean can you use %St to pass the cfg values to %Vf?
11:38:58kugeli guess not
11:39:11coppersomeone talked about that recently
11:42:17kugelI could make your case work but that would most likely break lines where twoor three of %al,%ac and %ar are used
11:42:45kugele.g. drawing the center part would draw over the left part
11:44:03coppereh, we don't want that
11:44:42copperit should be a function of the viewport, not the text
11:44:57copperthough I guess it doesn't work like that
11:45:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:47:21copperRockbox 3.14 is sooo overdue
11:47:41copperprobably all my themes break on 3.13
11:47:56copperand some users don't say anything
11:48:19copperor don't realize when something is obviously broken
11:54:44copperkugel: it's inconsistent though: I have a viewport with %Vf() and %Vb() and centered text: the background color is applied to the entire line, not just the text
11:55:16copperbut then if I insert %Vs(invert) in there, then the background is applied only on the beginning of the text and to end of the viewport, to the right of the text
11:55:21kugelit's not inconsistent, they're simply not the same
11:56:15kugelre 3.14: I'll ask AlexP about it once I see him
12:01:53kugelcopper: can you try this:
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12:10:12kugel <- fixed maths
12:11:06copperit breaks %ar
12:11:53kugelthe second paste too?
12:12:02copperno, gonna try the second one now
12:15:28copperer, I don't need to recompile everything, I guess
12:16:11gevaertsNo need for make clean on that one
12:17:49copperkugel: everything works :D
12:18:23coppertried %al, %ac, %ar with and without %Vs(invert), and all three at once, with and without %Vs(invert)
12:18:42kugeland two of them?
12:19:44copperyou mean like: %Vs(invert)%alLeft %Vs(invert)%acCenter?
12:20:44copperthat works as if there was only one %Vs(invert)
12:21:33kugelonly one %Vs (probably the last one) per line is effective
12:25:09kugelcopper: how would you expect %Vs(invert) to work on its own line?
12:25:27kugelapply to the next line, or all remaining ones in the viewport?
12:26:29kugeland related, what makes you think it works on its own line at all?
12:27:06coppernah I was just confused with what markup is supposed to be on its own line, and what isn't
12:27:26copperhaving %Vs(invert) on the same line as the text it's meant to affect, makes perfect sense, don't change that
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13:29:11fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 532b814, 253 builds, 30 clients.
13:30:12copperhow do I change the foreground color of the menu only (%Vi)?
13:30:45copperif I set %Vi(...) and then %Vf(...), it changes the foreground color in the WPS
13:30:59copperif I set %Vi(...) and then %Vf(...) in the SBS, it changes the foreground color in the WPS
13:31:59kugelcopper: use %cs
13:32:36kugel%Vi isnt just the the menu viewport, it's for general content
13:33:14copperis there something other than %Vi for displaying the menu?
13:33:37kugelthere is skinned lists but it doesnt work that well
13:35:25fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 374 seconds.
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13:40:50coppercan't make it work
13:42:18copperdamn it
13:43:30kugelwhat's the problem?
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14:42:12coppergod, I finally did it
14:42:50copperthe top bar's color can finally be changed with the Rockbox color picker
14:43:12coppersuper hackish, but with kugel's fix, it works
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15:18:15copperpixelma_: in order to make the color of the status bar user-settable, like we were talking about, I used %Vs(invert) for text, 1-bit images, and viewports containing a blank space for the background
15:18:49nrgnice job copper!
15:18:56copperand %Vb(-) and %Vf(-) to reset the colors previously set for the %Vi() menu
15:19:31copperI'm not entirely sure what I'm doing is the expected behavior or if it's not exploiting some bug
15:20:00coppernrg: I went nearly nuts on that thing :P
15:20:23copperbut it seems I have finally reached my "theming wholy grail"
15:20:55copperI'll be able to delete the gazillion Googley themes
15:21:00copperand upload just one
15:26:54[Saint]I'd hold off on that.
15:27:21[Saint]I'm pretty sure the fix just broke deliberate behavior.
15:28:02amayer[Saint]: fun killer!
15:28:30amayer[Saint]: just kidding. what broke?
15:28:51[Saint]Why so?
15:29:02[Saint]Is it too hard to imagine it was edded for a reason?
15:29:05amayercopper: that would be AWESOME! if you could use color picker for your googley themes
15:29:23copperamayer: Basta is an evolution of the Googley themes
15:29:33copper[Saint]: see the screenshot ^
15:29:41copperthat is definitely not something anyone would want
15:29:44amayerbut i dont like the graphic graphic battery
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15:29:55[Saint]Don't confuse you, with anyone.
15:30:03copperamayer: set the battery to "numerical"
15:30:08[Saint]Wait until JdGordon_ comments on this.
15:30:20[Saint]He had a reason to do it like this in the first place.
15:30:37[Saint]Someone coming and wiping that out without consultation doesn't sit right with me.
15:30:56[Saint]Without so much asking if its intended bahavior or not.
15:31:06[Saint]To fit a single case, no less.
15:31:22copperdude, it's obviously a bug
15:31:44copperwithout %Vs(invert), the whole viewport line is drawn
15:31:50[Saint]It may be, but, don;t get too attached to the fix just yet.
15:31:53copperwith it, before the fix, only part of it would be drawn
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15:34:10[Saint]Its all very well to say "its obviously a bug", and it may be.
15:34:24[Saint]But you don;t know there's no themes out there that use the "bugged" behavior.
15:34:37copperwell that's always a problem
15:34:39[Saint]...which would now be broken.
15:34:44copperit was a problem with kugel's other fixes
15:35:00copperand some of the themes that haven't been fixed since then, are now broken
15:35:03[Saint]Well, I'd like to see JdGordon_ at least comment on this.
15:35:14[Saint]Preferably before commit, but that moment is passed.
15:35:20copperbut if you guys are going to stop kugel from fixing what needs to be fixed…
15:35:58[Saint]Ohhhh fuck off. That's not it and you know it.
15:36:03[Saint]DOn;t throw your toys dude.
15:37:18copperwhat if some themes use the "bugged behavior"
15:37:19copperthen what
15:37:33copperI had to fix my own themes the last times
15:38:27[Saint]I'm sure there's a way to allow this to behave as originally intended, *and* consume the entire line.
15:38:27copperand now my own themes are broken on Rockbox 3.13
15:38:32[Saint]It doesn;t need to be either or.
15:38:42copperdo you even know the original intent?
15:38:58[Saint]It was only supposed to affect the text.
15:39:06copperexcept it didn't
15:39:29copperit affected text and all the space to the right of it, until the end of the viewport line
15:40:27copperand, again, the default behavior without %Vs(invert) is to paint the entire line, including around the text, with the background color
15:40:44copperwhy would %Vs(invert) only work on the text then
15:40:49copperwoudln't make any sense
15:41:08[Saint]My understanding of the intended behavior was that it was only supposed to affect the text until it hit another tag, so you could do weird shit with several foreground/background colors on a single line.
15:44:30[Saint]IFF that was the intent, and anyone's using it, they're now rather unhappy.
15:45:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:46:04[Saint]And, don;t get me wrong, I understand that would be a kick in the ass for you - but I'm sure there's a way this could work for everyone.
15:46:56copperI've done my share of working around bugs when there was no-one to fix them
15:47:15copper(while reporting them on flyspray)
15:48:55[Saint]I'll reserve complete judgement for the moment its actually confirmed or denied as a bug or intended behavior.
15:51:13copperamayer: I meant, you can set the "Battery Display" setting in the Theme Settings to "numerical"
15:51:19copperif that wasn't clear
15:51:32[Saint]Playing Devil's advocate is some tough work... :/
15:52:46copperI don't know why you're so resistant all of the sudden
15:53:32[Saint]I don't know why you can't see that I would like it confirmed that this isn;t wiping out intended behavior.
15:53:50[Saint]Its easier for me as I don;t have a personal stake in this, I can see the other side.
15:54:14[Saint]Do I want you issue fixed? Yes. Do I want it to undo intended behavior? No.
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15:54:39[Saint]Its nothing personal.
15:54:58copperbecause 1) it's obviously broken, and 2) I really don't want to have to wait for others to check it out, because that could take a _long_ time
15:55:13copperalso, I take exception to the "To fit a single case, no less." bit
15:55:28[Saint]You can do that.
15:55:38copperwhen kugel fixed it, I checked out the other cases that I was NOT using, to make sure it was working coherently
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16:06:17copperI can see how acting only on the text (and not the space around it on the same line, to each end of the viewport) would be desirable
16:06:41copperbut then you would need to fix the default behavior and only draw the background color on the text
16:06:49copperand make the rest of the line transparent
16:07:06copperwhich will also likely break some themes
16:08:36copperwhatever is decided, it needs to be coherent
16:09:11[Saint]I certainly agree there.
16:09:18copperok, good
16:11:00*[Saint] waits for his Jolla to be delivered
16:11:15*[Saint] pretends he meant to say that here
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16:33:07copper[Saint]: actually if you really want to do it right, you'd need to separate the background color and transparency of the viewport, and the bg and fg colors and transparency of the text itself
16:33:28copperonly then will you have something that's manageable in all situations
16:34:08coppersomething like %Vb() and %Tb() / %Tf()
16:34:17copperwell not Tf, that's used already
16:34:23copperbut you get the idea
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16:35:42copperbut that too will break themes
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16:36:14copperthat's the price for correcting past mistakes and oversights, and improving the thing
16:36:18kugel[Saint]: what are you on? anyway, you're wrong
16:38:21[Saint]You're 100% aware of the intended behavior then?
16:39:10kugelyou couldn't use multiple %Vs on a single line
16:39:37kugelthe text is drawn once at the end of evaluating all tags
16:39:50kugelwith a single possible style
16:40:35kugeland that you couldn't start the style at the beginning of the line rather than the beginning of the text was a limitation of the code in pre-put_line() days
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17:42:16copperturns out I don't even need %Vs(invert)
17:45:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:45:34copperstill, a bug got fixed
17:49:51copperthe solutions for the whole thing eluded me for quite a while
17:51:06copperthemeing is so quirky
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18:48:32copperamayer: I fixed the colors, now you should be able to use Basta-Blue.cfg, set the battery display to "numeric", and have something that looks a lot like Googley-Blue
18:49:06copperaaaand, my work is done.
18:49:54copperyou'll also note that all colors are RGB 565 compliant, as opposed to the Googley themes that used RGB 888 backdrops, which ended up dithered by Rockbox
18:50:18coppernot that it should make a huge difference visually on the device itself, but it's, like, erm, cleaner :P
18:51:02copperit's also more functional than Googley
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19:50:08amayercopper: what does it do differently then googley? I see somethings are in different spots, and Icons are turned off.
19:51:23copperother than what you can see on the screenshots, the big difference is that it doesn't use backdrop or images for the status bar
19:51:44copperand the colors of the status bar can be changed in the Theme Settings → Colors menu
19:51:50copperwith the Rockbox color picker
19:52:13copperwhile you were limited with Googley to the colors that I chose myself, you can now use whatever colors you like
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19:53:25copperit's something that I've wanted to do for a while, but couldn't figure out
19:53:51amayerI like the googley status bar a little better. the white bars and the HD indicator
19:54:08amayerbut changes colors is a super cool feature
19:54:30copperthe googley status bar was wasting useful real estate, IMO
19:55:02copperthe other difference is that Basta is set for 14pt fonts only, contrary to Googley which can handle 14pt and 19pt
19:55:34copperwith Googley I was trying to please people who need a larger font, but with this kind of layout, there's not enough space for a larger font
19:57:19copperI have other themes available for people who need a larger font
19:57:22amayercopper: you do continue to amaze me with your themes tho :)
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19:57:27copperthanks :)
19:58:17copperthere's a nearly pristine iPod 2G for sale on eBay at 20 bucks, ending in 20 minutes, if anyone wanna snipe it
19:58:18amayerafter you stared makeing themes I stopped because I just ended up using yours anyway. and ive been super busy with paying side projects... I wish I could devote more time to rockbox.
19:58:38kugelcopper: what happened?
19:58:48copperkugel: ?
19:58:59kugelyou said you dont need Vs
19:59:23copperyeah I figured out that not only did I not needed, I shouldn't use it in this particular case
19:59:28copperneed it*
19:59:55copperbecause I thought I was stuck with the user settable white background color
20:00:08copperso I used fg to set the color of the status bar
20:00:33copperthen I figured out that I could have a big white viewport beneath everything else
20:00:53copperto "lock" the white background no matter what the user settable bg color is set to
20:01:15kugelthe color is now used only for the top bar?
20:01:26coppereverything else is forced
20:02:12amayercopper: what does statusbar_border do? and is it a transparent bitmap?
20:02:20copperyeah, 30% black
20:02:38copperto produce the same effect that was "hardcoded" into the backdrops in Googley
20:02:51amayero.O I didnt know you could have a transparent bitmap
20:03:00copperyeah [Saint] told me about it a while ago
20:03:08copper32 bit ARGB
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20:04:40amayerthe battery is black but white in the theme? is it some kind of mask?
20:05:38copper1 bit
20:05:52copperblack takes the fg color, white takes the bg color
20:06:26copperamayer: btw, there's still the "Status Bar" theme setting trick for changing the last metadata line in the WPS
20:06:50amayercool :)
20:06:55coppercodec with Status Bar Off, next track with Status Bar Top, alternating line with Status Bar Bottom
20:07:26copperand the first two also alternate when pressing pause
20:08:01amayerI might modify this a little just to get the color changing functionality but for my personal tasted the extra info in the status bar and playing bar are a little overkill
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20:19:54copperabout the icons, I figured that they never helped me visually to access items faster
20:20:30copperI actually dislike them now
20:20:56amayerI dont use them often but I have some bands that have a mix of folders and music in the same folder. and I make alot of bookmarks for podcasts... so i use them on occasion
20:21:15kugelcopper: you can still provide them. there's a setting to disable icons
20:21:21amayerdid you totally take them out of the theme?
20:22:42copperkugel: I'm actually using an "empty" icon file in order to add a slight margin to the left of the menu
20:23:06copperI need it so that the selection includes that margin
20:23:46copperwithout that trick, it wouldn't look as good
20:24:00kugelthere is a margin automatically due to the scrollbar
20:25:42copperthe scrollbar is set to the right in my themes
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20:29:09kugeli dislike no icons
20:29:18kugelbut that's my personal opinion of course
20:33:44copperdesign requires choices
20:34:41copperand last time I tried to accomodate everyone, I nearly went nuts :P
20:35:28copperthe thing being, that everyone has their own pet peeve, but it's never the same one
20:35:49copperone guy wants a big font, another wants next track info, another wants icons, etc
20:36:00[Saint]Why not shift the menu with a ui viewport instead?
20:36:14copper[Saint]: I don't know what you mean?
20:36:27[Saint]Instead of transparent icons.
20:36:45coppercan you translate that in theme markup?
20:37:05[Saint]Not on my phone at 6am ;)
20:37:19copperI use %Vi() for the menu
20:37:48coppershifting it will also shift the current selection in the menu
20:39:32copperI don't know how I can specify a margin within the UI viewport
20:39:55kugelyea, you can't
20:40:50[Saint]Ah, right. I see. Hmmm.
20:41:14[Saint]I had to solve this by using my own custom build, sadly. As I think losing icons is a huge usability issue.
20:41:44[Saint]I just used magic to append a single space to the start of every list item string.
20:42:12[Saint]But that had the huge disadvantage of only working for *that one theme*, on *that one build*. :)
20:44:40copper%?C<%Vd(art)|%Vd(noart)> doesn't work after switching to a different theme
20:44:46copperit works again after rebooting
20:45:03[Saint]If you don't have show extensions on, it becomes impossible to navigate.
20:45:06[Saint]re: icons.
20:45:13 Quit ygrek (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
20:45:37copperdefine "impossible to navigate"
20:45:54[Saint]If you use the file browser, then you're pretty much fucked for telling whats a folder and whats a file.
20:45:56kugelcan't tell the difference between folders and files
20:46:17copperthen show the extension, or fix your directory tree
20:46:48copperI don't really want to picture what kind of awful directory structure would be a problem with that
20:46:55kugel"you need to fix your files to use this theme"?
20:47:03[Saint]Nice attitude.
20:48:03coppermy attitude is to make choices
20:48:20kugelperhaps you can have a theme variant with icons
20:48:46copperand I have zero problems navigating my collection
20:48:59copperI don't have random directories everywhere
20:49:10copperand showing file extensions is an easy fix
20:49:27copperdon't you show file extensions on your PC?
20:50:20[Saint]Its OK to say "I don't care, this is for my sole use case". That's fine.
20:50:36copperI do care
20:51:08copperbut I don't see how showing file extensions is such a horrible workaround
20:51:35copperthough I guess you might not see it immediately with long filenames
20:52:25amayerim guessing there isnt a way to force "if icons are on use this icon set and if icons are off use this blank icon set"?
20:52:33[Saint]with a ~18pt font it doesn't even need to be that long.
20:52:54[Saint]amayer: nope. the clue is on the question.
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20:53:01[Saint]"if icons are off"
20:53:06[Saint]If icons are off, they're off.
20:53:43amayeri wasnt sure if it was like "statusbar: on" then have %wd in the theme
20:54:18amayer"icons: on" %weird rule that ignores all settings and puts icon on anyway
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20:55:10[Saint]the only setting it could ignore that is relevant is "icons: off"
20:55:22 Quit rela (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
20:55:38amayerby setting an icon theme to: -
20:56:26[Saint]That's saying "there's no icons file here", basically.
20:56:52[Saint]But icons: on won't override that.
20:57:19[Saint]Well, icons are still techincally "on", just...there's nothing to display.
20:57:40[Saint]So nothing is actually being ignored.
20:58:03 Quit rela_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
20:58:27[Saint]There just isn't a way to display icons, regardless of the loaded iconset, when icons: off is set.
20:58:58coppereh, there's an easy fix
20:59:10copperI'll just create my own icon set
20:59:12[Saint]supply two icons strips?
21:00:56[Saint]the uploader might bitch about that though - I dunno. Not sure how it feels about "extra" bitmaps.
21:01:11[Saint]I'm sure you've tested its limits in this regard before.
21:01:22 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...)
21:02:00[Saint]If it does cry about it, you could trick it - but I'm not sure I should say how until it becomes and issue, if it becomes an issue, and probably not in public. :)
21:03:21amayerdo I need the newest build for the basta theme?
21:03:32[Saint]Almost certainly.
21:03:46[Saint]And you should be using it anyway, really.
21:04:00[Saint]3.13 is ancient.
21:04:28amayerI run dev builds (see: ipod 6g)
21:05:17[Saint]Oh - right. I misparsed the question. I see what you were asking now.
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21:15:17copper19:03:21 UTC <amayer> do I need the newest build for the basta theme?
21:15:19copperI'm not sure
21:15:28copperI'm not using %Vs(invert) anymore
21:15:47amayeri updated JIC]
21:15:51copper[Saint]: I'll just make an icon set that I can live with
21:16:09copperto address the issue of menu item type (not just files and directories)
21:16:49copperthanks for pointing it out
21:29:54copperis there a list of type indexes?
21:29:59copperfor the icons file
21:30:04copperwhat is 0, what is 1, etc
21:30:42[Saint]No, its used fairly inconsistently throughout some places too iirc.
21:31:29[Saint]The options are basically refer to source, or look and see what cabbie is doing.
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21:38:50[Saint]There was at one point I assume the intention of "this is the foo icon, and this is the bar icon, and this is the baz icon", but as more and more things got added over time people just started picking the one that looked right in a particular setting it seems.
21:39:26[Saint]Its /mostly/ consistent.
21:40:00[Saint]viewer icons are downright messed up, though.
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22:01:15ulmutulWhat does "HAVE_SDL" exactly mean? Simulator something?
22:03:21 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
22:26:57kugelAlexP: ping
22:29:47kugelulmutul: it means we link to SDL
22:29:59kugellike in the simulator or for some forms of RaaA
22:31:07ulmutulYes, I found out is has to do with the simulator... what is SDL?
22:32:31ulmutul... or what does the acronym stand for?
22:36:26ulmutulAh ok. I was curious because of button-sdl vs. button-target.
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