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| 01:09:55 | user472259 | greetings! i'm having an issue trying to make for the ipod classic 6g |
| 01:11:17 | | Quit teythoon (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 01:11:51 | user472259 | configures ok... but make fails with http://pastebin.com/XK4Tr0Bu |
| 01:12:22 | user472259 | only change i've made is to the usb_vendor_id and product_id :\ |
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| 01:12:36 | gevaerts | What *exact* change did you make? |
| 01:12:43 | user472259 | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=43493.0 |
| 01:13:05 | user472259 | line 242/243 in ipod6g.h |
| 01:13:38 | user472259 | rockbox/firmware/export/config/ipod6g.h |
| 01:13:58 | gevaerts | Can you paste the lines from your copy of the file? |
| 01:14:09 | gevaerts | I mean, those specific lines |
| 01:14:16 | * | gevaerts doesn't need to see the rest of the file |
| 01:15:07 | user472259 | thanks for the help gevaerts |
| 01:15:08 | user472259 | #define USB_VENDOR_ID 123a |
| 01:15:08 | user472259 | #define USB_PRODUCT_ID 456b |
| 01:15:12 | gevaerts | Right |
| 01:15:16 | gevaerts | You left out the 0x bit |
| 01:15:34 | user472259 | yep. so 0x123a |
| 01:15:48 | gevaerts | Yes, and 0x456b |
| 01:16:03 | user472259 | thanks again :D |
| 01:18:55 | gevaerts | You're welcome :) |
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| 10:46:11 | copper | is anyone looking into the iPod USB Vendor/Product ID problem on OS X? |
| 10:47:20 | copper | isn't it pretty much the only thing holding off OS X users from using their iPod with Rockbox? |
| 10:53:30 | [Saint] | The only thing anyone can do is apply to OpenMoko for our own IDs. |
| 10:53:43 | [Saint] | But that needs to be very well orchestrated and professional. |
| 10:53:53 | [Saint] | Best handled by the Swedes most likely. |
| 10:54:39 | [Saint] | Letting a user input their own ID is _a_ solution, but its not very ethical at all. |
| 10:54:52 | [Saint] | (someone that wasn't us or them paid for it) |
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| 10:55:07 | copper | Who are "the swedes"? |
| 10:55:17 | copper | I've seen them mentionned a bunch of times |
| 10:55:33 | copper | (I'm reading your post about the USB thing btw) |
| 10:56:40 | [Saint] | LinusN, bagder, Zagor |
| 10:57:15 | copper | what's special about them? |
| 10:57:21 | [Saint] | It doesn't necessarily need to be handled by them, but it would be best coming from a founding member, someone who can represent Rockbox. |
| 10:57:28 | copper | ah ok |
| 10:58:09 | copper | does installing emCORE on OS X work? |
| 10:58:46 | [Saint] | I believe so - I don't really know. It should. |
| 10:59:12 | [Saint] | The Mac will freak out about the end result, but it should still allow the install. |
| 10:59:34 | copper | I meant, with a modified Rockbox build with different USB IDs readily available, would a virtual machine be needed at all? |
| 10:59:45 | copper | I wouldn't mind hosting such a build |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:31 | [Saint] | I think it should really be something the user needs to achieve, as distributing someone elses V/PID isn't really that ehtical. |
| 11:01:50 | [Saint] | If its taken from a device they already own, its not /as/ bad. |
| 11:02:03 | [Saint] | Obviously you can do what you want, though. |
| 11:03:36 | [Saint] | If the user is installing an unsupported Rockbox build from an unsupported loader, they should /probably/ be prepared to get their hands dirty. |
| 11:04:41 | copper | I'm sure I already asked, but I can't remember the answer: aren't there unused IDs? |
| 11:05:15 | copper | unassigned* |
| 11:05:28 | [Saint] | Thats territory I'm unsure of myself, but I guess it would be really hard to guarantee there wasn't a collision. |
| 11:05:55 | copper | just trying to figure out the less sucky workaround |
| 11:07:13 | copper | user472259 earlier used your imaginary values earlier :P |
| 11:07:18 | copper | 123 456 |
| 11:07:36 | [Saint] | Its only a few cases that freak out about it - some dumbass car stereos, and Macs. AT least with all the other iPods, there's disk mode - but, not the Classic. |
| 11:07:46 | [Saint] | bah, coffee in my shift key. :/ |
| 11:07:55 | copper | hmmm, disk mode? |
| 11:08:13 | copper | as in, iTunes lets you use your iPod as a storage device? |
| 11:08:18 | copper | the Classic has that |
| 11:08:30 | [Saint] | Not with emCORE it doesn't. |
| 11:08:42 | copper | hmm |
| 11:08:48 | [Saint] | The original FW is completely obliterated. |
| 11:08:52 | copper | right |
| 11:08:55 | copper | oh |
| 11:08:56 | [Saint] | Its the only iPod install that does this. |
| 11:09:09 | [Saint] | Which is why its not really a massive issue right now. |
| 11:09:13 | copper | the OF would talk to iTunes to tell it it wants to be used as a storage device? |
| 11:09:59 | copper | every once in a while I see OS X users complaining that they can't use Rockbox |
| 11:10:18 | copper | maybe not a massive issue, but the users are there |
| 11:10:47 | copper | a lot of Head-Fi members |
| 11:11:04 | [Saint] | I think we can trigger disk mode on USB plug for some iPods. Not sure if the Classic could, but I'd speculate yes. |
| 11:11:15 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 11:11:27 | copper | I wonder if the head-fi build now has modified USB IDs |
| 11:12:08 | [Saint] | Oh, heh - I just read that - someone actually built a binary with the bullshit ID I posted? :) |
| 11:12:25 | copper | apparently! |
| 11:12:30 | [Saint] | I probably should've tried to check that wasn't assigned. :-/ |
| 11:12:40 | copper | the "Imaginary Devices, Inc." didn't throw them off |
| 11:12:45 | copper | lol |
| 11:12:45 | [Saint] | I hope its not. |
| 11:12:47 | [Saint] | Hahaha |
| 11:13:04 | [Saint] | Oh shit, I thought it would be clear. Whoops. Heh. |
| 11:13:14 | * | [Saint] shrugs |
| 11:15:29 | copper | 09:11:29 UTC <copper> I wonder if the head-fi build now has modified USB IDs |
| 11:15:33 | copper | doesn't look like it |
| 11:15:38 | copper | https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b5xbw6cp4ikfxwn/MjELjmDNJ_ |
| 11:16:56 | copper | http://www.head-fi.org/t/532426/ipod-classic-rockbox-its-happening |
| 11:17:02 | copper | that thread needs to be updated |
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| 11:18:21 | copper | "Will I lose the data on my iPod when installing/updating emCORE/Rockbox? |
| 11:18:21 | copper | No, versions since r836 won't erase anything that's on the filesystem on the iPod. The media that's already on the iPod will work after it is copied with a program that copies media then it can be put back on the iPod." |
| 11:19:38 | [Saint] | Yeah - I'm not sure how correct that is. |
| 11:20:18 | copper | strangely, I seem to recall experiencing both cases: one where the data wasn't erased, one where it was |
| 11:20:28 | copper | I can't recall for sure |
| 11:21:53 | copper | [Saint]: http://www.head-fi.org/t/532426/ipod-classic-rockbox-its-happening/3015#post_10453203 |
| 11:23:01 | [Saint] | yay - unsupported builds. :-/ |
| 11:23:06 | [Saint] | I love them. |
| 11:24:07 | copper | because of the patches, or because of the modified USB IDs? |
| 11:24:33 | copper | for the latter, Rockbox doesn't yet provide a solution, so what are they to do? |
| 11:24:50 | [Saint] | If people never ended up here or the forums because they have some issue with someone else's ancient build with the super l337 hacks included, it would be all fine and dandy. However... |
| 11:25:48 | [Saint] | Its enfuriating diagnosing an issue and then finding out they're using some months old pacthed build from fuck knows where with no sources. |
| 11:26:03 | user890104 | [Saint]: the main problem with mac installs is that OSX doesn't like UMSboot's filesystem and refuses to mount it because it's superfloppy formatted (no partition table) |
| 11:26:15 | copper | asking if it's a Head-Fi build would save you a lot of time, I think :) |
| 11:26:47 | user890104 | if someone makes a umsboot version that launches emcore instead of umsboot, then use the python stuff to run the installer, it should work fine |
| 11:27:19 | user890104 | but then the user would be unable to copy media, because the hard disk gets superfloppy formatted as well |
| 11:28:01 | user890104 | the only (easy?) solution would be to use my emcorefs wrapper, which i recently tested on a mac and it still seems to work |
| 11:28:25 | copper | how about distributing a Linux "live" distro to copy onto a USB drive? |
| 11:28:36 | [Saint] | I wouldn't call emcorefs /easy/, but its definitely a valid solution. |
| 11:28:40 | ParkerR | copper, for what purpose? |
| 11:28:53 | user890104 | live cd is also an option |
| 11:29:03 | copper | for installing emcore / rockbox without fiddling with virtual machines |
| 11:29:11 | ParkerR | Ahh |
| 11:29:24 | copper | possibly with some BASH script that walks the user through the process? |
| 11:29:56 | user890104 | installing xcode from the app store, then typing "make" in a terminal is easier than editing umsboot's source code to include a partition table, then rebuilding it, right? |
| 11:31:05 | user890104 | copper: there's a bash script that does exactly that IIRC |
| 11:31:11 | copper | nice |
| 11:31:45 | user890104 | it's a bit ugly, though :) http://websvn.freemyipod.org/filedetails.php?repname=freemyipod&path=%2Ftools%2Finstall-classic.sh |
| 11:39:37 | copper | I seem to remember a file on Linux that lists all vendor and product IDs? |
| 11:39:46 | ParkerR | lsusb |
| 11:39:53 | copper | http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids |
| 11:41:01 | copper | [Saint]: looks like vendor ID 0x123a and product ID 0x456b aren't currently assigned :) |
| 11:41:16 | copper | from that list ^^ |
| 11:43:28 | copper | not a bad example after all |
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| 11:46:56 | [Saint] | phew. |
| 11:49:17 | Vrek | is it OK to use Replaygain and Prevent Clipping in Rockbox at the same time? |
| 11:49:42 | Vrek | or only one can be ON at the same time? |
| 11:49:49 | copper | both |
| 11:50:00 | Vrek | ok, ty |
| 11:50:08 | copper | prevent clipping is meant to be used with replaygain enabled |
| 11:50:24 | Vrek | oh I see |
| 11:50:42 | copper | the alternative is to set Prevent Clipping to off, and set the "preamp" value to something sufficiently low |
| 11:50:50 | copper | like -3 dB |
| 11:51:03 | Vrek | and that would also prevent clipping? |
| 11:51:38 | Vrek | so which setting is better to use? preamp or Precent Clipping? |
| 11:51:54 | Vrek | Prevent Clipping |
| 11:51:59 | Vrek | ? |
| 11:53:59 | copper | preamp, IMO, because that preserves Replaygain's purpose |
| 11:54:23 | Vrek | aha, so how can I be sure 3db is low enough to prevent clipping? |
| 11:54:27 | copper | Prevent Clipping will further reduce volume in order to, well, prevent clipping, but then that album / song won't have the same loudness as your other albums / songs |
| 11:54:27 | Vrek | -3db |
| 11:54:50 | copper | well I have a BASH script that scans my entire collection and tells me the lowest possibly preamp value |
| 11:55:02 | Vrek | that sounds nice, how do you use that? |
| 11:55:14 | copper | but -3 dB is a safe bet |
| 11:55:20 | copper | -4 dB maybe |
| 11:57:22 | [Saint] | I go for the range of highest and lowest replaygain values /2 |
| 11:57:33 | copper | we talked about that :) |
| 11:57:42 | [Saint] | generally works out to -6dB for me I think. |
| 11:57:43 | copper | that makes no sense |
| 11:57:51 | [Saint] | Its a good ballpark. |
| 11:57:51 | Vrek | where do I get that script? |
| 11:58:11 | copper | https://outpost.fr/stuff/preamp.sh |
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| 11:58:46 | [Saint] | iirc its only flac, though, yes? |
| 11:59:00 | Vrek_ | what is? |
| 11:59:13 | copper | yup |
| 11:59:18 | copper | my script |
| 11:59:28 | Vrek_ | ok |
| 11:59:40 | Vrek_ | got dc'd |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:11 | copper | it's a function of replaygain value and peak value |
| 12:00:39 | Vrek_ | yeah, I've read about that, peak value is then used to prevent clipping |
| 12:01:02 | Vrek_ | but I'll use preamp |
| 12:02:01 | | Quit Vrek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:02:06 | copper | my "optimal preamp value" for album gain is -2.6 dB |
| 12:02:14 | copper | but for track gain it's -7.38 dB |
| 12:02:56 | copper | I guess I would just set the preamp to like -6dB and be done with it, if that doesn't make your device too quiet with your headphones |
| 12:03:22 | Vrek_ | yes, I'll do that, and I have IEM's so I'm pretty sure they wont be too quiet |
| 12:04:50 | Vrek_ | 23 ohms |
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| 12:07:25 | copper | [Saint]: can't we just set the vendor id to 0x123a and product id to 0x456b and monitor the list of assigned IDs to make sure it doesn't clash with anything? |
| 12:08:33 | * | [Saint] shrugs |
| 12:09:12 | copper | I don't really see a problem with that |
| 12:09:50 | copper | a BASH script in a cron could download the list periodically and check the IDs |
| 12:12:32 | copper | the "optimal" solution just isn't happening |
| 12:12:59 | | Quit Vrek_ () |
| 12:13:28 | copper | the problem has been known for a while and the workaround is easy |
| 12:13:51 | copper | and I don't see how it would hurt anything or anyone |
| 12:14:04 | [Saint] | I believe this is on the DoItRight list. |
| 12:15:34 | [Saint] | Ah, nope. |
| 12:16:06 | [Saint] | Probably should be. |
| 12:16:54 | copper | I'm just gonna host that build |
| 12:17:11 | copper | vanilla Rockbox without any patches, just modified USB IDs |
| 12:18:38 | copper | is it OK if I host the binary and just the patch for the USB IDs, or do I have also host an archive of the entire source code? |
| 12:18:48 | copper | have to* |
| 12:20:55 | [Saint] | You need to be able to provide the full source that compiled that binary. |
| 12:21:56 | copper | define "be able" |
| 12:22:06 | copper | like, if someone asks? |
| 12:22:21 | [Saint] | yes. |
| 12:24:30 | copper | ok |
| 12:24:31 | kugel | jhMikeS: ping |
| 12:25:26 | [Saint] | copper: just make sure that they come crying to you for support. ;) |
| 12:25:33 | kugel | copper: just the patch is fine with me |
| 12:26:04 | [Saint] | kugel: its fine with me too, but, /technically/... |
| 12:30:08 | [Saint] | Though I'm not even sure if copper lives in a locale where the terms of the license are actionable or not, even if someone did get anal about sources. |
| 12:30:51 | [Saint] | But, yeah, to my knowledge you need to be able to provide the complete source that compiled the work. |
| 12:34:17 | kugel | only if someone asks for that, and providing the patch reduces the chances for that to a minumum :) |
| 12:34:57 | [Saint] | right, but you can't necessarily safely bet on that. |
| 12:36:10 | kugel | sure you can, as long as you're able to generate the complete source when it comes to that point |
| 12:36:58 | kugel | alternatively taking off the build also works |
| 12:38:13 | [Saint] | 'taking off the build'? |
| 12:41:00 | kugel | stop making it downloadable |
| 12:41:58 | kugel | anyway, this talk is waste of time. |
| 12:42:22 | [Saint] | errrr...that doesn't work for the people you've already distributed the build to. You can't just say "Oh, I'm not distributing it anymore, so you can't have the sources". |
| 12:45:23 | copper | it's ok, I'll be able to give a source tarball to anyone who asks |
| 12:46:21 | copper | incidentally, is there a way to create a clean source tarball from a git clone? |
| 12:46:28 | copper | without the git stuff |
| 12:47:23 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 12:48:31 | [Saint] | I'm not sure if there's a way to do it automagically. |
| 12:51:47 | copper | gah |
| 12:51:59 | copper | I can't run "git stash" without providing my identity? |
| 12:52:38 | [Saint] | Hm? |
| 12:53:52 | copper | nm |
| 12:55:05 | | Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:57:45 | copper | http://caudec.net/rockbox/rockbox-ipod6g-532b814M-140420-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.zip and http://caudec.net/rockbox/latest/rockbox-ipod6g-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.zip |
| 12:57:56 | copper | same URLs with .diff instead of .zip |
| 12:58:11 | copper | the second URL always points to my latest build |
| 12:59:26 | copper | http://caudec.net/rockbox/latest/rockbox-ipod6g-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.diff |
| 13:00 |
| 13:14:48 | copper | the build will be updated automatically every day |
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| 13:27:22 | copper | [Saint]: posted in your thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,43493.msg227914.html#msg227914 |
| 13:27:57 | copper | I hope this is an acceptable third-party solution for which there is no official one |
| 13:28:14 | copper | that didn't sound quite right |
| 13:31:39 | copper | oy |
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| 13:31:56 | copper | forum clock is off by 9 minutes |
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| 13:34:47 | | Quit bertrik_ (Changing host) |
| 13:34:47 | | Join bertrik_ [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 13:35:23 | | Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 13:44:01 | copper | is there a way to make a build without plugins? |
| 13:44:12 | copper | (for me, not for distribution) |
| 13:44:32 | | Join Klarion [0] (~lao@optima1074.o2.carnet.hr) |
| 13:46:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:46:20 | copper | maybe a combination of "make" targets? |
| 13:46:33 | Klarion | Can someone tell me if Rockbox plays 48khz files natively? I've read that it resamples them to 44khz and then the file is worse in quality not just becaues of the less frequency range. Is this true? I searched but couldn't find straight answer. |
| 13:47:00 | gevaerts | Klarion: current development builds can be set to use 48kHz instead of 44.1kHz |
| 13:47:01 | copper | Klarion: you can change the output sampling frequency to 48 kHz |
| 13:47:50 | | Join Klarion_ [0] (~lao@optima1074.o2.carnet.hr) |
| 13:47:53 | Klarion_ | got DC |
| 13:48:07 | copper | 11:47:02 UTC <gevaerts> Klarion: current development builds can be set to use 48kHz instead of 44.1kHz |
| 13:48:29 | copper | but it's one or the other, everything will get resampled to that (unless the file uses the same sampling frequency) |
| 13:49:14 | Klarion_ | OK I understand that. So old builds resample the file and that decreases the sound quality beyond just the frequency range? |
| 13:50:49 | | Quit Klarion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 13:54:37 | copper | ah, I can set ENABLEDPLUGINS to no |
| 13:56:05 | | Join Klarion [0] (~lao@optima1074.o2.carnet.hr) |
| 13:56:28 | copper | Klarion: the new resampler should be good enough |
| 13:59:13 | | Quit Klarion_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:02:41 | | Quit Klarion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 14:13:51 | kugel | copper: there is "make bin" and "make codecs" |
| 14:14:08 | kugel | bin does only the main binary and codecs just the codecs |
| 14:14:17 | kugel | most of the time make bin is sufficient |
| 14:21:11 | copper | meh, "make zip" builds the plugins |
| 14:28:09 | kugel | yea, because the zip should contain everything |
| 14:28:42 | copper | setting ENABLEDPLUGINS=no works |
| 14:28:53 | copper | I'm using BASH scripts anyway |
| 14:29:01 | copper | so I don't have to do it manually every time |
| 14:30:19 | gevaerts | Remember that you can't really distribute pluginless builds license-wise :) |
| 14:31:58 | copper | I know, I don't plan to |
| 14:32:01 | copper | it's just for me |
| 14:32:20 | copper | the one I distribute is a normal "make zip" build |
| 14:34:10 | copper | I'm cleaning up my sim setup |
| 14:35:23 | user890104 | copper: about the Mac issue, it should also be possible to change the usb ids in the rockbox fallback image, that's distributed together with the emCORE installer |
| 14:36:04 | user890104 | that would be a straight-forward approach for the mac users, as long as they use the fallback image for transfers and the regular build for listening to music |
| 14:37:21 | [Saint] | There's a devcon coming up. |
| 14:37:43 | [Saint] | perhaps the openmoko stuff can be discussed then. |
| 14:38:00 | [Saint] | s/discussed/finalized/ |
| 14:38:40 | copper | user890104: ah nice |
| 14:39:12 | [Saint] | building emCORE isn't trivial, though, sadly. |
| 14:40:08 | [Saint] | if the freemyipod guys were to put out a mac-safe emCORE build, that'd be a good thing, I guess. |
| 14:41:07 | copper | and that would give choice |
| 14:41:12 | copper | between one or the other |
| 14:41:16 | user890104 | we actually need a Mac-safe Rockbox build, embedded in an emCORE installer |
| 14:41:41 | user890104 | emCORE installer's code doesn't have to be modified at all |
| 14:42:23 | copper | kugel: what's the purpose of "make symlinkinstall"? I don't understand. |
| 14:42:43 | copper | it just changes the path of the .rockbox directory |
| 14:42:55 | copper | and makes a symlink to it in ./simdisk |
| 14:43:13 | copper | (from what I can tell) |
| 14:43:26 | [Saint] | user890104: Oh - is repacking the installer trivial? |
| 14:43:28 | user890104 | so we can basicly take the source for the fallback image (has been working fine in the last 2-3 years), and swap the USB IDs |
| 14:43:47 | user890104 | which has* |
| 14:44:05 | copper | user890104: at this point I think the latest build might work better |
| 14:44:16 | [Saint] | what I meant by "put out a mac-safe emCORE build" was "uncluding mac-safe fallback", if that wasn't clear. |
| 14:44:19 | copper | the latest rockbox build* |
| 14:44:38 | [Saint] | but I was alluding to the fact that building emCORE in general is non-trivial if you're not already set up for it. |
| 14:44:54 | user890104 | copper: do they work fine with windows? i'm always using the fallback one for file transfers on win7x64 |
| 14:45:14 | [Saint] | They most certainly do not. |
| 14:45:24 | user890104 | [Saint]: i happen to be set up for that :) |
| 14:45:29 | copper | ? |
| 14:45:44 | [Saint] | I've seen multiple 8.1 failures over the past...long long time. |
| 14:45:55 | [Saint] | And a few 7s. |
| 14:46:04 | copper | I don't know, I'm running Linux, and the latest dev builds have been working flawlessly, as opposed to the old ones that would crap out half the time |
| 14:46:10 | [Saint] | The fallback works in most cases, though. |
| 14:46:40 | [Saint] | copper: newer builds are refusing to mount for...pretty much everybody who isn't using linux. :) |
| 14:46:44 | user890104 | [Saint]: you mean including a second "fallback image" in the tools menu? |
| 14:46:54 | copper | oh? |
| 14:46:59 | [Saint] | user890104: no, just an optional download. |
| 14:47:05 | copper | [Saint]: er, seriously? |
| 14:47:14 | [Saint] | copper: yeah, its been happening for ages and no one really seems to know why. |
| 14:47:27 | copper | so what, all iPod Classic Rockbox users are Linux users? |
| 14:47:31 | user890104 | copper: that's why we have the option for fallback image. because the dev builds don't work on windows |
| 14:47:38 | copper | ah ok |
| 14:47:42 | copper | damn |
| 14:47:43 | copper | that's bad |
| 14:47:44 | [Saint] | the fallback image exists specifically for this reason. :) |
| 14:47:52 | [Saint] | bah. beat me to it. |
| 14:48:37 | user890104 | [Saint]: why does it have to be an optional download? swapping the fallback image usb ids shouldn't hurt anyone |
| 14:48:51 | [Saint] | good point. |
| 14:49:43 | user890104 | so, if someone can build the fallback image revision and send me the rockbox.ipod file, i can do it (if TheSeven doesn't mind) |
| 14:50:48 | copper | I could do that |
| 14:50:49 | [Saint] | You've caught me with my build machine down - spring (technically autumn) cleaning time. |
| 14:50:55 | copper | a regular "make zip" build? |
| 14:51:01 | copper | er, nm |
| 14:51:08 | copper | just the rockbox.ipod file then |
| 14:52:19 | [Saint] | what revision is the fallback taken from? |
| 14:52:24 | copper | 31516 |
| 14:52:42 | [Saint] | ah, you're on it - I should read more. |
| 14:53:11 | copper | ah fuck |
| 14:53:15 | copper | it's not on git? |
| 14:53:20 | user890104 | no, that's svn :) |
| 14:53:54 | user890104 | it's from 1st jan 2012 |
| 14:54:03 | copper | svn co <what>? |
| 14:54:16 | [Saint] | I don't remember the magic to build an svn revision from git. |
| 14:54:17 | user890104 | svn co -r 31516 <url> |
| 14:54:28 | [Saint] | iirc, its possible. |
| 14:54:31 | copper | found it |
| 14:54:49 | copper | svn: E000101: Can't connect to host 'svn.rockbox.org': Network is unreachable |
| 14:54:53 | [Saint] | its on the usinggit page iirc. |
| 14:55:04 | [Saint] | oh - bums. |
| 14:55:11 | copper | http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/ |
| 14:55:13 | copper | 404 |
| 14:55:27 | copper | "No site here. " |
| 14:55:48 | copper | :-/ |
| 14:56:08 | [Saint] | git log -n 1 −−grep=@31516 |
| 14:56:19 | [Saint] | then checkout the hash |
| 14:56:41 | [Saint] | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UsingGit#How_do_I_check_out_an_SVN_revision_made_before_the_transition_to_git_63 |
| 14:56:47 | [Saint] | I thought it was there. |
| 14:56:49 | copper | a1c6a512-1295-4272-9138-f99709370657 |
| 14:56:50 | [Saint] | and 'twas. |
| 14:59:55 | copper | ok, building |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:23 | copper | er, it might work better if I change the USB IDs :P |
| 15:01:43 | | Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 15:03:12 | copper | user890104: https://outpost.fr/tmp/ueR.zip |
| 15:03:23 | copper | can you test it? |
| 15:04:06 | user890104 | yes |
| 15:04:47 | user890104 | i just need to find one of my apple cables |
| 15:16:18 | user890104 | copper: it works well |
| 15:17:34 | user890104 | here's an installer that includes your binary: https://mega.co.nz/#!JlZDTZRJ!EZLd15TSY9o6y5l0EKgiNr4msFQyQ6meK0iTc85AA7U |
| 15:18:24 | user890104 | you can throw it in UMSboot, and let it update your installation of emCORE |
| 15:19:01 | user890104 | if you're using an old enough emCORE version, your ipod's hard disk might get reformatted |
| 15:19:04 | | Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 15:19:35 | copper | cool! |
| 15:22:03 | copper | mirrored here http://caudec.net/rockbox/installer-ipodclassic-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.ubi |
| 15:22:06 | user890104 | i can test it on other windows versions, ubuntu, osx 10.9 and chromium os on tuesday |
| 15:22:28 | user890104 | well, i can upload it to files.freemyipod.org, to make it easier |
| 15:25:07 | user890104 | http://files.freemyipod.org/misc/installer-ipodclassic-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.ubi |
| 15:34:45 | user890104 | [Saint]: surprisingly, the most recent development build of rockbox for ipodclassic works on my windows pc |
| 15:38:28 | copper | aha! |
| 15:40:58 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 15:41:10 | | Quit scorche` (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 15:43:02 | copper | I'm gonna test it on my Win7 install |
| 15:44:30 | user890104 | actually this installer is built from svn trunk |
| 15:44:49 | user890104 | it has a new usb driver, and a nasty umsboot bug fixed |
| 15:45:10 | user890104 | but it hasn't been tested a lot |
| 15:45:13 | copper | the ubi file? |
| 15:45:20 | user890104 | yes |
| 15:45:32 | user890104 | it's emCORE r911 |
| 15:45:46 | copper | I'm gonna try mounting the latest dev build on Win7 |
| 15:45:48 | copper | brb |
| 15:46:11 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:52:44 | | Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:53:14 | | Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97) |
| 15:57:32 | copper | [Saint]: I mounted / unmounted my iPod Classic running the latest dev build, on Windows 7, no problem whatsoever |
| 15:57:37 | copper | copied files just fine |
| 15:57:40 | copper | several times |
| 15:59:35 | copper | I think this should be tested and confirmed by other people, so we can update the fallback build |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:00 | copper | people are also reporting on ABI that the recent builds are a lot more stable over USB |
| 16:02:26 | soap | as in "no problems yet" or as in "still some problems"? |
| 16:05:23 | copper | Marvin says "hasn't been an issue in quite a while" |
| 16:05:35 | copper | http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=646278&postcount=25 |
| 16:05:42 | copper | I'm trying to find the posts in question |
| 16:06:41 | copper | http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=646159&postcount=7 |
| 16:06:52 | copper | "Most of my USB transfer problems cleared up at the time the changes came that caused you to update your themes, skamp. Before then transfers to the card on my Fuze+ that were more than ~100 MB would randomly fail and cause really nasty disk problems." |
| 16:07:06 | copper | i.e. kugel's fixes to the theme engine |
| 16:07:31 | copper | http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=646163&postcount=10 |
| 16:07:35 | copper | "Saying that the USB problem are not fixed yet. They are few...but not vanished." |
| 16:08:11 | copper | "Despite what the Rockbox wiki says USB *might* be buggy with any sansa using Rockbox. Even after the recent updates people still sometimes check in over on the Rockbox forums and report it isn't working for them. " |
| 16:08:38 | copper | needs more testing |
| 16:09:36 | copper | "Whatever was done I'm sure glad they did it. I couldn't use lebellium's or dfkt's themes before the changes. That was more than a bit frustrating because they're some of the best thought out and presented imo. " |
| 16:11:43 | copper | soap: as for me personally, the difference is huge |
| 16:12:00 | copper | my Classic never crashes anymore |
| 16:12:09 | copper | hasn't for a while |
| 16:12:41 | copper | and I've been using it daily for over a month |
| 16:13:11 | copper | before, it would crash at least half the time, without exagerating |
| 16:13:25 | copper | "plug & pray" |
| 16:13:50 | copper | I even stopped using the Classic a while ago because of that |
| 16:15:47 | soap | thanks |
| 16:30:00 | * | user890104 finds it funny that there's a subforum about ipods on anythingbutipod.com :) |
| 16:30:32 | | Quit krnlyng (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:34:48 | copper | user890104: I asked for it |
| 16:35:23 | copper | user890104: I'm unclear about this: is it possible to install emCORE / Rockbox on OS X, using your modified UBI file? |
| 16:35:35 | copper | or is an other OS still required? |
| 16:37:12 | user890104 | copper: if the recent versions of OSX accept superfloppy-formatted hard disks (not the case the last time we tried, about 2-3 years go), then yes |
| 16:37:45 | user890104 | even if it doesn't, i can build a bootstrapper with emCORE instead of UMSboot |
| 16:37:46 | | Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) |
| 16:37:48 | copper | http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73692 |
| 16:38:05 | user890104 | which should make it possible, by using emcore.py |
| 16:38:28 | user890104 | i don't have a mac at the moment to test it, but it is possible in theory |
| 16:40:06 | user890104 | usb vid/pid are a problem if using rockbox. it represents itself as the original product in terms of usb ids |
| 16:40:11 | | Quit uwe_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 16:40:12 | [Saint] | Regarding USB on got head, it does work for some people indeed. But were still getting too many reports if people updating their builds and USB going to shit for them to ignore it or say its fixed I think. |
| 16:40:23 | [Saint] | *git head |
| 16:40:32 | user890104 | umsboot uses diffeent usb vid/pid that the original firmware, and also repesents a mass storage device |
| 16:40:42 | user890104 | osx 10.6 failed to mount it |
| 16:40:45 | [Saint] | (On the Classic, I mean) |
| 16:41:03 | | Join uwe_ [0] (~uwe_@dslb-088-064-062-090.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:41:04 | user890104 | [Saint]: i see, thanks |
| 16:41:38 | [Saint] | Most of them seem to hit #freemyipod |
| 16:41:39 | copper | [Saint]: using http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipod6g.zip ? |
| 16:42:24 | user890104 | copper: if you have a mac around, and you have installed the .ubi i sent you, can you plug the ipod and select UMSboot from emCORE's tools menu? |
| 16:42:28 | [Saint] | Indeed. |
| 16:43:04 | copper | I don't have a mac, unfortunately |
| 16:43:07 | user890104 | if this works, then installing on osx should be possible (and i'll have to update the wiki) |
| 16:44:10 | copper | [Saint]: if they hit #freemyipod, doesn't it stand to reason that they're probably installing the 2012 image linked on the emcore wiki? |
| 16:44:40 | copper | and maybe trying to install the dev build while running the 2012 image? |
| 16:44:58 | [Saint] | That's the fallback image, if that didn't work for them they could never have installed it. |
| 16:45:23 | user890104 | copper: i updated the instructions recently, to use the current development build of rockbox (via rockbox utility) |
| 16:45:41 | [Saint] | Ah. OK. Then...that. |
| 16:46:03 | user890104 | but yes, the fallback image is always installed (on the flash memory of the ipod, not on the hard disk) |
| 16:46:26 | copper | i just don't trust users to really be using a dev build when they complain about USB problems |
| 16:46:47 | user890104 | one can use the fallback image (i mean the whole build, with codecs and stuff), but it crashes from time to time because of an i2c bug (IIRC) |
| 16:46:50 | [Saint] | I trust me to check, though. |
| 16:47:02 | copper | [Saint]: btw, can you test the USB thing with Windows yourself, whenever possible? |
| 16:48:03 | [Saint] | I think I've got a virtual machine image somewhere. |
| 16:48:14 | copper | er, is that even a valid test? |
| 16:48:43 | copper | using a virtual machine I mean |
| 16:49:08 | copper | I have no clue about the implications of it |
| 16:49:10 | [Saint] | It should be. |
| 16:54:19 | [Saint] | So that would explain the people hitting #freemyipod-support with USB issues indeed. They hit it (or don't) immediately at install and the wiki instructions to come see us there are still fresh in their minds. |
| 16:54:43 | [Saint] | I wasn't aware the instructions now pointed to a git head build. |
| 16:55:27 | [Saint] | It stands to reason, the fallback image is ancient and the new builds work for more people than it doesn't... I think. |
| 16:56:01 | [Saint] | Unfortunately we don't get many "yay it worked and everything is OK" posts to base that from. |
| 16:56:19 | copper | how would we go about getting confirmation enough? |
| 16:56:41 | copper | what would it take to switch to a dev build for everything? |
| 16:57:12 | copper | posting on forums would only give SOME anecdotal evidence |
| 16:58:00 | copper | from the very few who care to test and report back |
| 16:58:06 | [Saint] | What do you mean 'switch to a Dev build for evrything'? |
| 16:58:15 | copper | drop the 2012 image alltogether |
| 16:58:25 | copper | altogether* |
| 16:58:47 | copper | IME it's not even foolproof |
| 16:58:58 | copper | my iPod would also crash with the 2012 image |
| 16:59:17 | [Saint] | I don't think that's too helpful, there's enough reported fail cases to know something is badly wrong. |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:08 | [Saint] | Know exactly how badly would only be mildly interesting and hugely inconvenience users. |
| 17:00:09 | copper | enough to say that GIT is *worse* than 2012/01/01? |
| 17:00:23 | [Saint] | Definitely. |
| 17:00:26 | | Nick bertrik_ is now known as bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 17:00:33 | copper | definitely not my experience |
| 17:00:56 | copper | and I'm one of the guys who ran into USB crashes all the time |
| 17:00:56 | [Saint] | It used to work, it stopped. |
| 17:01:06 | [Saint] | Pretty clear cut. ;) |
| 17:01:13 | copper | wait, what? |
| 17:01:34 | copper | I'm not sure I'm following you |
| 17:01:57 | copper | for me, it used to NOT work, and now it does, all the time |
| 17:02:04 | [Saint] | USB used to work, and at some point it suddenly stopped. A driver rewrite iirc. |
| 17:02:25 | [Saint] | There's no obvious reason for it AFAIK. |
| 17:03:31 | copper | s/GIT/HEAD/ |
| 17:05:06 | [Saint] | Anyway - I'd say we have clear evidence that USB is still an issue, definitely worse than the revision the fallback was taken from. |
| 17:05:29 | | Join dfkt|a [0] (~androirc@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 17:06:10 | copper | that's weird |
| 17:06:27 | copper | I mean the difference IME is so drastic |
| 17:06:28 | | Quit dfkt|a (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 17:06:47 | [Saint] | Does the fallback not work for you? |
| 17:06:56 | copper | not always, no |
| 17:06:59 | [Saint] | That's curious. |
| 17:07:18 | copper | I'm also worried about the interaction with recent themes and the old 2012 fallback build |
| 17:07:32 | copper | since the fallback uses the /.rockbox/config.cfg file |
| 17:07:50 | | Quit rela (Quit: Leaving) |
| 17:07:51 | copper | the fallback should be completely locked with its own configuration, IMO |
| 17:08:01 | [Saint] | It is. |
| 17:08:05 | copper | what? |
| 17:08:22 | [Saint] | Oh, no. Hmmm. |
| 17:09:23 | user890104 | copper: if the new UMSboot (included in the installer, version 0.2.1) works without issues (for example, on Mac), i might be able to find some time to write an application which uses its usb/mass storage driver, for accessing the hard disk (a.k.a. "disk mode") |
| 17:09:24 | [Saint] | That is a fun point, however from my point of view it must be OK. |
| 17:09:58 | [Saint] | That's there because it exists so we can point to it when the shit hits the fan in newer builds |
| 17:10:12 | [Saint] | And many users use it this way. |
| 17:10:22 | [Saint] | Booting to fallback exclusively for USB. |
| 17:11:12 | copper | user890104: using emcore only? |
| 17:11:49 | user890104 | copper: emCORE + emCORE app |
| 17:11:57 | user890104 | maybe as an option in the boot menu |
| 17:11:57 | copper | that would be awesome |
| 17:13:04 | copper | that would be the best "fallback" solution |
| 17:13:15 | user890104 | http://websvn.freemyipod.org/listing.php?repname=freemyipod&path=%2Fapps%2Fumstest%2F - here's the source code, but it needs some more work to be usable |
| 17:13:15 | copper | for USB transfers, anyway |
| 17:13:28 | user890104 | it currently emulates a RAM disk, it doesn't access the HDD at all |
| 17:14:31 | user890104 | and it uses a kernel API of emCORE, which is not yet stable (my windows laptop bluescreens when certain action take place) |
| 17:14:39 | copper | lol |
| 17:15:00 | user890104 | it's because windows tried to talk using mass storage protocol to emcore's debugging interface |
| 17:15:12 | copper | now I want to implement a random blue screen in my themes just to freak out users :D |
| 17:15:41 | user890104 | lol |
| 17:17:09 | [Saint] | Just do a black screen with a *panic* in sysfont |
| 17:17:23 | [Saint] | That would be cruel. |
| 17:18:15 | user890104 | [Saint]: are you trying to bring more people asking for support? :) |
| 17:18:43 | [Saint] | *panic* INSTRUCTION_UNCLEAR (dick_stuck_in_blender) |
| 17:18:49 | copper | rofl |
| 17:21:00 | [Saint] | You could check the date and do it for April 1st |
| 17:21:37 | copper | [Saint]: except that would be subject to the %?if() bug and I don't know if it will be fixed before april first of next year |
| 17:21:59 | copper | meh, who am I kidding, it probably won't be |
| 17:22:19 | copper | anyway, too much code for a bad prank :P |
| 17:28:18 | [Saint] | I had a theme where the album art wore a little party hat on party mode once. |
| 17:34:01 | | Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 17:37:43 | | Quit us`0gb (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 17:46:12 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:53:30 | copper | gah, I can't figure out how to install wps.vim |
| 17:56:47 | copper | er, seems outdated anyway |
| 17:58:10 | copper | wildly useless |
| 17:58:54 | copper | https://outpost.fr/tmp/w9k.png/ |
| 18:00 |
| 18:07:40 | copper | uh |
| 18:08:00 | copper | why aren't image files showing anymore with "show files: supported"? |
| 18:08:35 | | Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) |
| 18:10:56 | copper | gah |
| 18:11:05 | copper | I bet that's because I didn't build plugins |
| 18:11:14 | copper | damn it |
| 18:19:29 | [Saint] | Yeah, I was going to mention there's a few plugins that you almost certainly don't want to remove. |
| 18:19:38 | copper | yeah, that blew right up my face, didn't it |
| 18:19:46 | [Saint] | If you don't want plugins, just remove it from the main menu. |
| 18:19:46 | copper | :D |
| 18:19:58 | copper | nah I was just trying to save time on compilation |
| 18:20:03 | [Saint] | The space saved from removing them isn't worth it. |
| 18:20:21 | [Saint] | Do you have ccache installed? |
| 18:20:42 | [Saint] | Compile time shouldn't be fuck all if you're not changing much between builds. |
| 18:23:16 | [Saint] | Most of the time you can get away with just compiling the binary and replacing that. |
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| 18:42:06 | copper | [Saint]: how do I tell if a full recompilation is warranted? |
| 18:44:31 | gevaerts | If you're building interactively, just run make without a make clean, and do a clean build if things explode (which should be rare)= |
| 18:44:46 | gevaerts | If it's automated, do you really care about those two or three minutes? |
| 18:45:56 | copper | Not really, no. |
| 18:47:00 | copper | I have now automated my entire Rockbox setup |
| 18:47:06 | copper | less fiddling |
| 18:47:56 | copper | I don't know how people get anything done without scripting |
| 18:55:53 | copper | Does right-to-left metadata require right-to-left handling in theme code? |
| 18:56:18 | copper | or rather, what mandates right-to-left handling in theme code? |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:30:28 | copper | [Saint]: can you explain this thread? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,43007.0.html |
| 19:30:37 | copper | wth are they talking about? |
| 19:31:44 | copper | and… the "Unsupported Builds" forum is surprisingly low on thread count |
| 19:32:55 | copper | oh, that thread is over a year old |
| 19:33:33 | [Saint] | What they're talking about is one of the wide and varied ways current builds seem to mess shut up on the Classic. |
| 19:34:02 | [Saint] | Where "current" == "anywhere from the last 2 years or so" |
| 19:34:49 | [Saint] | Nowadays a user would hit that immediately at install if they're going to see it, I guess. |
| 19:35:07 | copper | you didn't answer my earlier question btw: how should we go about making sure and deciding that the latest Classic dev builds are preferable to older versions? |
| 19:35:35 | copper | Classic, and possibly other targets, really |
| 19:35:58 | copper | what would turn the minds of deciding heads? |
| 19:36:50 | [Saint] | I don't see a need to do so. |
| 19:39:37 | [Saint] | (Just so its clear when I said mess shit (actually I said shut but meh) up on the Classic I was referring to USB failing in current builds for some on Windows) |
| 19:40:24 | [Saint] | Its largely fine but it seems to really piss off a small number of machines for no good reason at all. |
| 19:43:36 | copper | Meh? |
| 19:44:16 | copper | aw shit, I forgot that every time I say "meh", someone downrates my themes |
| 19:46:10 | copper | Oh well. |
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| 19:53:24 | nrg | muh |
| 19:55:43 | copper | mooh |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:20:43 | copper | sure enough, it happened |
| 20:20:44 | copper | :D |
| 20:21:01 | copper | MEH! |
| 20:21:11 | | Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 20:22:33 | copper | seems like I have a fan |
| 20:31:50 | * | [Saint] trots off to frantically downrate copper's themes. |
| 20:32:20 | copper | go nuts |
| 20:32:30 | [Saint] | must. ruin. imaginary. internet points. |
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| 20:32:44 | copper | I'm starting to take it as a show of attention |
| 20:33:14 | copper | If I'm the most downrated theme author, then I'm probably the most notable one! |
| 20:33:26 | [Saint] | Well, someone needs to either be patient enough to avoid the rate limiting and keep coming back, or resourceful and dedicated enough to subvert it. |
| 20:33:39 | copper | I have my suspicions. |
| 20:33:46 | [Saint] | SO I highly suspect you're doing something to piss someone off. |
| 20:34:09 | [Saint] | I would suspect it was an author with a similarly rated (or excessively highly rated) theme. |
| 20:34:29 | [Saint] | probably *and*, not or. |
| 20:34:40 | copper | his (their?) persistance is getting kinda funny |
| 20:35:06 | [Saint] | Well, as much as I just - 'tis not I, sir. |
| 20:35:21 | [Saint] | 'Aint nobody gots time fo dat. |
| 20:35:33 | copper | Word. |
| 20:35:47 | [Saint] | s/just/jest/ |
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| 20:51:45 | * | user890104 is trying out one of copper's themes |
| 20:52:57 | user890104 | uhm, i didn't know that you can have a mini wps in the menus |
| 20:53:24 | copper | sbs is no different than wps, except with an added %Vi() menu |
| 20:55:04 | copper | eh, I've never tried putting %Vi() in a WPS |
| 20:55:11 | user890104 | well, the stock theme isn't using this, so i assumed it's not possible |
| 20:55:27 | user890104 | but it looks so cool |
| 20:55:30 | copper | I'm not the one who got the idea originally |
| 20:55:39 | copper | I copied it from some other theme (can't remember which one) |
| 20:56:10 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 20:56:48 | copper | lebellium Samsung-Like, possibly |
| 20:56:56 | copper | http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1806&target=sansafuzeplus |
| 20:57:28 | copper | that theme also gave me the idea of the dynamic volume progress bar |
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