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#rockbox log for 2014-04-22

00:06:22 Join dunpeal [0] (~dunpeal@unaffiliated/dunpeal)
00:12:05 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 29.0/20140417185217])
00:21:15 Quit tertu (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:21:59dunpealHi. I think I messed up my Sansa Clip+ player. Is there a way to totally reformat the internal SDD?
00:23:38dunpealIt does things like randomly disconnecting while connected via USB, when I try to transfer files into it.
00:25:10 Join tertu [0] (~tertu@
00:25:50RiDmaybe randomly disconnecting means your usb connection is messed up
00:26:04RiDusb falling out, bad cable?
00:26:27dunpealRiD: not likely. I have two other players staying connected with the same cable and computer.
00:26:56RiDmaybe that specific player usb is messed up?
00:27:21dunpealIt could be. But I played around with it a fair bit, deleting random files etc.
00:27:42RiDwell ok, i can't help any further (not really into rockbox, only as an app for my phone)
00:27:44dunpealI'd like to try to reformat it to its original state, and try again, before dumping it in the trash.
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05:29:46 Join Havok [0] (4754a6b1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
05:30:58HavokHello i have a problem where i keep getting a message that says "No Mountpoint given" and idk whats wrong.
05:32:45Havok*I have a Sansa Fuze*
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08:32:52copper2014/04/21 13:20:13 UTC <[Saint]> My brightness is very low as I use the failsafe theme
08:32:55copper2014/04/21 13:20:36 UTC <[Saint]> (yeah - I know, but, I like RAM better than pretty things and features)
08:33:25copperdoes 100 KiB of skin RAM usage really make a difference?
08:33:37copperwhat do you "like your RAM" for?
08:37:37kugel[Saint]: also, since when do you like RAM better than pretty things?
08:41:39copperusing the failsafe theme kills the fun of owning an iPod!
08:43:03copperyours even has an SSD, what do you care about RAM
08:45:05copperseems like the failsafe theme has fans:
08:46:18copperuh, lol
08:46:36copperTotal RAM usage of the failsafe theme: 160 KiB
08:47:30copper160 KB*
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08:49:37coppercompared to 186 KB for Basta and 70 KB for PodTwo
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10:23:48 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
10:24:14[Saint]My buffer is like ~59MB or so with my setup.
10:24:51[Saint]I just turn off everything I don't need/use. Its put to better use as audio buffer than prettiness I'll see occasionally.
10:25:08 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739)
10:25:09copperyou're nutz!
10:25:53[Saint]Also, I think you're measuring incorrectly.
10:26:07coppermy buffer is 61.4 MB with Basta
10:26:20[Saint]skin engine usage: 556bytes"
10:26:45[Saint]And, yeah, I just checked, I was off. Its 62Mb
10:27:05copperbut you have to count the backdrop too
10:27:23copperhence the "total usage" line in the debug menu
10:27:46[Saint]total usage, 3040 bytes"
10:28:26[Saint]From this I see that you also turn off/don't enable everything superfluous.
10:29:28copperI'm seeing "skin total usage: 3468 bytes", "backdrop images: 153600 bytes", "total usage: 157068 bytes"
10:30:08copperanyway, 150 KB is nothing
10:30:27copperbut indeed you stay true to yourself in this regard :P
10:30:29[Saint]Ahh, shit, right. Wrong line.
10:31:09copperalways arguing about a handful of kilobytes :D
10:31:29[Saint]I'm not arguing over it. If anything, you are. I just stated my usage.
10:31:40[Saint]The fallback ticks all my boxes.
10:34:55*[Saint] wonders why there's a backdrop loaded at all.
10:36:11[Saint]JdGordon: ^ Can't remember if I've asked you this or not - why after I explicitly clear the backdrop is one still loaded?
10:37:08JdGordonbecause.... aliens
10:39:22[Saint]Errrr, singular, I guess.
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10:43:57kugel[Saint]: two-face!
10:45:50[Saint]Is it not OK to like to create pretty things, but not like to use them?
10:46:35 Quit einhirn_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
10:46:39[Saint]Anyhoo - regarding backdrop, I guess that a backdrop generated from the background color is essentially exactly the same as a fullscreen bitmap?
10:48:03[Saint]If it helps, I *more* than make up for my lack of pretty themes on DAPs with my App builds.
10:48:21 Join pystar89 [0] (
10:48:49[Saint]The theme for my Note 12.2 uses about 20MB.
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11:18:54copperI'm having RGB problems again
11:19:45copper3ARGB 30% black (000000)
11:20:37copper32 bit ARGB 30% black (000000) on top of RGB 565 737173 = RGB888 635552
11:21:15copperthe final color is obviously wrong
11:21:40copperwhy different levels for all color components (RGB)?
11:21:54copperI'd expect at least the same value for red and blue
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11:31:51copperI also cannot test for the foreground color setting
11:32:05copperuh, wait
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11:34:22copper%?if(%St(background color), =, 737173)<ok|ko>
11:34:36copperalways displays "ko" with "background color: 737173"
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11:39:28copperI figured out a way to fix that test
11:39:48copper%?if(%ss(0, 6, %St(background color), number), =, 737174)<color is 737173|color is something else>
11:40:18copperbasically I'm forcing the setting value to be typed as a number, and I'm compensating for the %?if() bug
11:47:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:59:04kugel[Saint]: it's OK, if your name is Two Face :)
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12:24:32wodzkugel: ping
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12:28:39wodzcopper: isn't it the case that colorspace conversion takes into account human perceived lightness curve?
12:33:42coppereh, I wouldn't know
12:33:56copperbut it also _looks_ wrong
12:34:01coppervery redish
12:35:47copperanyway, I hardcoded colors for my presets, and my ARGB image is still used with arbitrary colors (set by users)
12:35:48kugelwodz: pong
12:40:42wodzkugel: I am looking for advice how implement 'kinetic' feeling of touchstrip. The touchstrip works like quadrature encoder, i.e it generates two waveforms and phase shift between the two determines swipe direction. I can calculate the speed of the swipe and direction. The part I am struggling is how to decelerate list scrolling knowing that momentum is approaching zero
12:41:28wodzkugel: The hardware wise it is similar to scrollwheel in ipods with the difference that you decelerate 'by hand' in case of scrollwheel
12:44:13kugelwodz: the code I implemented does a normal deceleration after the touch-up event, i.e. reduce the speed by a constant in a constant time interval
12:45:06kugelsign change (zero cross) of the current velocity signals stop
12:45:29wodzyes, but this is for touch targets only.
12:45:32kugelthe constant time interval is given by using a tick task
12:45:59kugelso just change the #ifdefs :)
12:47:18wodzhow do you reduce the speed? I guess pixel based which is unavailable on non touch, or am I wrong?
12:50:04kugelwodz: have you looked at apps/gui/bitmap/list.c? it's all explained
12:50:30wodzI hacked gui_synclist_do_button() in apps/gui/lists.c to always advance by 1 and it is still pretty fast when scrollstrip pumps new events to button queue
12:50:46kugelthe acceleration during is collected during drag
12:52:04kugelthe average value for the last few ticks is used for the deceleration constant
12:53:28kugelthis is so that the quicker hte user swipes the longer it'll continue scrolling
12:54:15wodzkugel: hmm, what is the connection between apps/gui/list.c and apps/gui/bitmap/list.c? Probably that is the thing I don't understand
12:54:35kugeloh wait, I'm wrong. the DECELERATION constant is a compile time constant
12:55:11kugelthe average velocity at the end of the swipe is reduced by that in a tick task
12:56:47kugelapps/gui/bitmap/list.c implements the actual drawing (and touch input) used by the (mostly) generic list code in apps/gui/lists.c. there is the charcell counterpart of the drawing in apps/gui/charcell/list.c
12:57:11kugelif there wasnt charcell it would be in a single file
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17:44:10amayerstrawboy55: hello
17:45:12strawboy55I installed rockbox recently and wanted to say thanks to whomever of you is involved in it, works great :)
17:45:56amayerYour thanks is greatly appreciated
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17:47:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:47:51strawboy55allright, cya all!
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18:42:00dunpealHi. I've been using latest stable Rockbox build with Sansa Clip+ and a 32gb MSDHC for a long time. Recently, I bought a a couple of 64gb MSDHCs. When I connect via USB and start to upload files into the card, after transferring some of the files, the player always disconnects.
18:42:30dunpealThis has been observed with 3 different 64gb MSDHCs, all of which work file when I connect them directly to my laptop (via adapter).
18:42:41dunpealAny ideas what's going on?
18:43:05megal0maniacI'm actually having the same issue with a 32gb MSDHC. But my build is oldish, I think
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18:45:38dunpealIs there a place to post a question / report about this?
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18:56:45copperdunpeal: FAT32 formatted?
18:57:24dunpealcopper: yes.
18:57:40copperdunpeal: try a dev build
18:58:29copper"latest stable" is super old
19:00:32dunpealcopper: I'm diagnosing this as we speak, and it seems not to happen with SanDisk MSDXC of the same 64gb capacity. Two identical 64gb MSDXC Transcends are affected.
19:02:13copperthose bugs are too random to diagnose
19:02:32copperthere is a chance that the dev build will work better because of some recent improvements (though not guaranteed)
19:02:33dunpealcopper: What am I supposed to do with the file you linked me? It seems to only contain .rockbox?
19:02:42 Quit megal0maniac (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
19:02:47copperdunpeal: you can use the Rockbox Utility and tell it to install a "dev build"
19:03:07copperin the "rockbox version to install" section on the main screen
19:03:16copper"development version"
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19:04:59dunpealcopper: thanks. once I do that, is there anything else I should do with the file you linked me?
19:06:50copperno no, forget the file, the Rockbox Utility does everything for you
19:07:04copperI'm sorry I didn't think of directing you to the Rockbox Utility first
19:07:13copperI tend to forget it even exists
19:07:20dunpealI see, thanks :)
19:07:32*dunpeal tries the dev build with the 64gb Transcend MSDXC
19:07:38copperwhen the dev build is installed, your Clip+ should ask you to reboot
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19:17:04dunpealcopper: thanks. Unfortunately, problem persists with the dev build.
19:17:39coppermeh :(
19:18:29dunpealAFAICT, it's only a fatal issue with upload while the MSDXC is in the player. So I'll just have to transfer new files directly.
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19:19:15copperwith the SD card adapter, yeah
19:19:40copperI really don't trust those tiny things
19:19:44coppertoo damn small
19:20:30dunpealhehe. I guess it makes sense that an MSDXC made by SanDisk works better with a SanDisk player.
19:20:37megal0maniac_afkThe clip+ has always been funny wrt usb
19:20:56copperthe place for reporting bugs is btw
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19:47:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:48:35dunpealcopper: reporting now. what's the proper Category for this?
19:48:51copperlemme see
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19:51:14coppersurprisingly, there is still no "USB transfers" category
19:51:29coppereven though it's a major point of failure across various devices
19:51:48dunpealyeah, kinda what I was looking for.
19:52:18copperfailing anything more specific, I'd say "drivers"
19:52:29copper(official Rockbox guys wanna jump in here?)
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19:53:26copperdunpeal: I suggest that you list the card's brand and model (full model number), and that you paste a copy of "dmesg" output
19:53:47copper(type "dmesg" in a terminal after connecting your Clip+ and witnessing the disconnection)
19:54:36copperthe interesting part of dmesg's output starts when it says that your card was connected and identified
19:55:01copperit should say something about the cards identifier and its storage capacity
19:57:56copperand if you're seeing the same thing with a different card, list that too
19:58:01dunpealcopper: for the card model, can I just paste the Amazon link of the product I bought?
19:58:42copperI guess, though it would be better to google it and find the official product page on the maker's web site
19:59:05copperyou should be able to find it easily by googling the product identifier on the amazon page
19:59:48copperit's always better to limit the amount of research that Rockbox developers have to do :)
20:00:22copperand developers in general tend to gravitate toward the more complete bug reports
20:01:09copperit may seem tedious at first, and possibly unrewarding because no-one immediately comments on the bug report, but eventually it sometimes pays off
20:01:40coppersome of my bug reports were 6 months old before a Rockbox dev started fixing them, but in the end, it more than paid off
20:01:57copperthe guy fixed all the bugs and made big improvements
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20:05:02copperI don't mean to say that you shouldn't expect a fix for a long time, just that properly filing bugs can pay off if you're a long term Rockbox user
20:05:19copperit's all about getting the right guy interested
20:07:29megal0maniac_afkSlip him a 10-er. Gets things done quicker ;)
20:08:08copperI think it's more about "oh hey, I can easily fix this"
20:08:32copperI don't remember exactly, but the bugs I mentionned got squashed over a week-end
20:09:11copperI guess the fact that they aren't busy at a given time is also a factor
20:14:27dunpealcopper: filed:
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20:16:08copperdunpeal: very nice
20:16:19copperit never happens with your SanDisk card?
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20:16:44dunpealcopper: not so far. I transferred a very large 700MB connection just now with no issues.
20:17:09dunpealwhereas my 150MB never once completed transfer into the Transcend card.
20:17:23megal0maniac_afkI get this with a 32gb sdhc class4 card. I can't copy a single album most of the time
20:17:35dunpealmegal0maniac_afk: who's the maker?
20:18:02megal0maniac_afkI'm trying again now with latest dev build
20:18:10dunpealmegal0maniac_afk: I'd try with a SanDisk card.
20:18:16megal0maniac_afkI have none
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20:18:33dunpealI've been using them with Clip+ and Rockbox for years now, zero issues.
20:19:03dunpealFirst time I'm experiencing this kind of stuff, Transcend card.
20:19:26megal0maniac_afkEh. It seems to be better now
20:20:29copperdamn, pamaury isn't here
20:21:27copperdunpeal: I used to run into a bug quite consistently with my 64 GB SanDisk card, but pamaury and I weren't able to debug it
20:21:51copperI went so far as to shipping my Fuze+ and microsdc card to him, but even then he wasn't able to debug it
20:22:39copperand long before that, I would always get file corruption with a 32 GB microsdhc card from Transcend on my Samsung Galaxy S1 phone
20:22:58copperthat's why I no longer trust microsd*c cards from any maker
20:23:29dunpealcopper: interesting. I used a ton of 16-32gb SanDisk cards on Fuze, Clip+, and Clip Zip. Never a single issue.
20:23:31copperI don't know if it's the cards themselves that are too flimsy, or if it's a matter of reverse engineering their controller or whatever
20:23:50dunpealI bet it's some slight incompatibility with the controller.
20:23:58copperwell possible
20:24:04copperbut who knows
20:24:28copperI've never made peace with how small they are :P
20:24:48dunpealBut can you really give up the capacity?
20:25:01copperI have an iPod Classic
20:25:02dunpealthe largest Clip+ you can buy is 8gb, and that one is very expensive.
20:25:02copper160 GB
20:25:11dunpealoh, OK.
20:25:12copperso I have all the storage I need
20:25:26dunpealfor a clip, the price diff between 4gb and 8gb is $30
20:25:44copperthe Fuze+ that I shipped to pamaury has 16 GB
20:25:49copperand my card 64 GB
20:26:05copperbut at this point I've lost interest in the Fuze+
20:26:09dunpealIIRC Rockbox isn't fully stable on Fuze+
20:26:15copperand I like my iPod Classic more and more
20:26:20dunpeal(and yeah, it's a terrible player)
20:26:27dunpealisn't iPod Classic a mechanical drive?
20:26:29coppernah I was the one who loved it
20:26:52copperand I reported a few bugs with the Fuze+ to pamaury, who fixed them
20:27:01copperyeah the Classic has a mechanical HDD
20:27:46copperI have to give the Rockbox guys credit: when they get involved, they do wonders
20:28:40copperbut now my Classic is working nearly flawlessly, with a very nice interface, and lots of storage for stupidly high bitrate content
20:29:36copperit's my "bring your entire music collection everywhere, in high quality" device
20:29:56megal0maniac_afkSo was mine, until I left it on a bus
20:30:10coppersuch tragedy!
20:30:21copperdid you cry a lot?
20:30:24*copper would
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20:42:00dunpealcopper: *nod*, but MSDXC cards are getting there. two 16gb Fuzes with 64gb MSDXC match your iPod storage exactly.
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20:44:13dunpealand apparently there are already 128gb MSDXCs:
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