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#rockbox log for 2014-05-04

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00:02:55kugelZincAlloy: what's point of a fullly transparent image?
00:03:29ZincAlloyonly parts are fully transparent. other parts are semi transparent
00:05:17kugelthe bmp loader ignores the alpha channel if it's 0xff across the entire image as a special case
00:05:56kugelbut a single non-0xff pixel breaks that
00:06:33ZincAlloythis is the bmp:
00:08:24kugeli have no time now. file a bug report please
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00:08:56ZincAlloynot sure if it's a bug. there might be something wrong with the bmp
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08:49:31pixelma[Saint]: (taking it here) I thought what ZincAlloy was trying to achieve could be possible with the backdrop viewport thing (%VB or so). IIRC putting album art there was supported (see gevaert's wavy theme) and maybe it's possible to put the semi-transparent image "over" it could work too? It's possible that I miss something here though and I haven't tried these myself yet...
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09:03:23[Saint]pixelma: at least when I tried it, you couldn't overlay textual viewports on album art, be it drawn to the backdrop buffer or otherwise.
09:03:42[Saint]Sorry, s/text/dynamic text/
09:04:11[Saint]It caused the same drawing issues as it would if drawn via normal means.
09:05:23[Saint]I would be very excited if this was no longer the case but AFAIK it is.
09:06:50[Saint]Drawing album art into the backdrop buffer wouldn't fix this issue, even if it did work as thought/intended, though.
09:07:17[Saint]As the backdrop doesn't get updated when the album art changes
09:07:25[Saint]...causing yet more issues.
09:08:19[Saint](Read as: album image won't change until exiting and reentering the wps)
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10:41:30copperthe iPod Classic produces audible hiss right after booting, until either some music is played, or the volume is changed
10:42:33copperthe hiss increases from silence to audible while the iPod is booting Rockbox
10:44:06copperand while it's doing that, it kinda sounds as if someone was manually increasing the volume (it does the same kind of sound)
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11:01:27copperZincAlloy (logs): that BMP has zero transparency, from what I can tell
11:01:48copperno alpha channel
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13:15:54[Saint]copper: yeah, we talked about it in *-community
13:16:37[Saint]Seems the PS->GIMP process (no idea why that exists, but, hey) was butchering the file.
13:17:51[Saint]Its hard to explain concisely, but he was making the image in PS and then converting it with GIMP (iiuc).
13:18:31[Saint]After which GIMP couldn't even open it itself. So its not terribly surprising Rockbox choked on it too.
13:22:29 Join ZincAlloy [0] (
13:22:57copper2014/05/03 13:00:31 UTC <copper> I'm considering forcing the main font in my themes, since they use a second font, which the user can't change
13:23:00copper2014/05/03 13:01:51 UTC <copper> I don't really see a point in changing the main font if the second font can't be changed as well, and changing to a different font with a different size will break alignments
13:23:04copper2014/05/03 13:02:17 UTC <copper> thoughts?
13:23:07copper[Saint]: ^
13:24:06[Saint]From a usability standpoint, I hate the idea of hardcoded fonts.
13:24:27[Saint]As often the author picks aesthetics over locale support
13:24:38[Saint]Chinese? Haha.. Fuck you. Etc.
13:25:57coppermy point is that Rockbox doesn't let users change secondary fonts
13:26:11ZincAlloymost font sizes suitable for small screens can't support chinese characters anyway :D
13:26:32[Saint]You support tiny devices though.
13:26:40[Saint]Classic has plenty of room.
13:27:42[Saint]copper: my point was, if you do it, make sure you're not fucking over half the world in the process.
13:27:53[Saint]Or, try to
13:27:59ZincAlloyno wonder unifont is so tall..
13:28:24[Saint]That's just badly converted to be frank.
13:28:30[Saint]It can be made smaller.
13:29:02copperactually, all my themes use the "default" (user settable) font for the main metadata
13:29:10copperso I guess I should leave it like that
13:29:42[Saint]I generally use smaller fonts only for numerals, so its not too bad.
13:30:20coppermy Classic running PodTwo with Windows BSOD colors is looks freaky :D
13:30:23[Saint]The main font I try to keep user selectable or force a possibly uglier font with wide support on everyone.
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13:33:04copperthe blue looks more vibrant IRL
13:33:14[Saint]The problem I have is not knowing exactly how many users I'm supporting when I do back flips to try to make sure their language renders correctly.
13:33:42[Saint]The ones that speak English likely don't care, and the ones that don't basically have no voice...
13:33:58[Saint]And therefore can't communicate needs effectively.
13:34:11[Saint]I have to assume they exist, though.
13:34:17ZincAlloythere are those who speak english and need more characters
13:34:30ZincAlloycan't be too many judging by the number of themes using unifont
13:35:10[Saint]I assume said users use cabbie and unifont
13:35:25copperNimbus shows french characters correctly
13:35:36[Saint](Unifont not being default still bugs me)
13:35:55[Saint]But ZincAlloy is right, its not practical on some screens
13:36:19[Saint]It bugs me that a user can change their locale and effectively render the device useless
13:36:35[Saint]But there's no obvious and trivial solution.
13:37:24ZincAlloyrockbox or the utility should ask the user what language he speaks before doing anything else..
13:37:43[Saint]Maybe we can disguise Rockbox as an English (UK English, real English) teaching tool. ;)
13:38:23ZincAlloyit's actually pretty safe to assume that the user knows at least some basic english as the website is in english as well
13:38:44[Saint]ZincAlloy: the only logical way to implement that in my mind is having the device lookup glyphs the locale is likely to use and bitch if missing.
13:38:53[Saint]But that's really really impractical.
13:39:03ZincAlloythere's no good solution for this
13:39:11[Saint]Indeed not.
13:39:35[Saint]Not one that works across every device...
13:40:18[Saint]I'd be prepared to force unifont wherever possible in cabbie for devices it can be, though.
13:40:35[Saint](As the default, user settable, font)
13:40:52ZincAlloywhen we made cabbie we included a unifont version for every target
13:41:03copperwhere were the colors in the screenshot I just posted used, originally?
13:41:25[Saint]ZincAlloy: then the others came... ;)
13:43:09CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13:43:09*[Saint] is reminded of a small fix he was supposed to do
13:45:30ZincAlloyI just updated gimp to the latest version, trying to get transparency working. now the simulator complains about unsupported compression.. :D
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13:48:08ZincAlloymacos preview can't open it anymore either. argb bmps are quite a pain.
13:48:31[Saint]Are you still trying to generate in PS and convert with GIMP?
13:48:48[Saint]What happens if you use GIMP for the entire process?
13:48:49ZincAlloyno, I recreated the graphics in gimp
13:48:56[Saint]Ah. Hmmm.
13:49:03*[Saint] shrugs
13:49:08ZincAlloyeven tried it yesterday with the older version.
13:49:50[Saint]I don't know what to say.
13:50:03ZincAlloyno idea how you made that work
13:50:18[Saint]It just...does.
13:50:19ZincAlloyI'm lucky my theme idea isn't gonna work anyway.
13:50:33[Saint]copper uses GIMP as well.
13:51:31[Saint]As far as I'm aware he does nothing special either
13:51:43[Saint]Just export to ARGB bitmap.
13:51:56copperZincAlloy: does the GIMP layer have an alpha channel?
13:52:02copperright click on the layer
13:52:16ZincAlloyit should. it's transparent. let me check
13:52:17copperif it shows "add alpha channel", then it doesn't already have on
13:52:44ZincAlloyah. yeah. it has
13:52:57[Saint]Export to ARGB should (does?) add one, no?
13:52:59copperthen, export to BMP, and select "32 bits A8 R8 G8 B8"
13:53:09ZincAlloythat's how I do it
13:53:18copper[Saint]: if it doesn't have an alpha channel, it doesn't have transparency
13:54:15ZincAlloythe ones I exported yesterday with the outdated version were recognized by osx just fine, but couldn't be opened with gimp anymore. now that I've updated gimp it makes argb bmps that osx doesn't know, but gimp can open them :D
13:54:51[Saint]Ah...OSX, yay. :-/
13:55:05[Saint]This won't be hard to debug at sir.
13:55:19ZincAlloyyou're lucky you don't need to debug gimp
13:55:44[Saint]I'd take gimp over OSX. ;)
13:56:12ZincAlloyit's not an either/or thing ^^
13:56:56copperfirefox doesn't display it correctly
13:57:06copperbut that's your BMP, with 50% transparency
13:57:14ItilianHello. I installed rockbox on my sansa clip+ several months ago and after this the memory of player became invisible for my computer, it is only charging when I plugged it in. When I loaded original firmware by holding "power" + "left" and plugged it in - nothing changed. Then I decided to format memory from original firmware but it didnt help too. How can I solve this problem?
13:58:27[Saint]Itilian: if it persists across the original Firmware, and Rockbox, its not a Rockbox issue.
13:59:00ZincAlloyha. unsupported compression as well
13:59:16[Saint]ZincAlloy: the issue here is your OS, it seems.
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13:59:26[Saint]Virtual machine time.
13:59:30ZincAlloynope. I'm doing that in windows
13:59:33ZincAlloyvirtual machine ;)
13:59:49ZincAlloyI run the simulator in windows
13:59:52[Saint]I can't speak for Windows.
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13:59:57[Saint]I bet copper can't either.
14:00:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:00:42ZincAlloyit's not an operating system issue. it's a gimp issue
14:00:51copperdid you try my BMP?
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14:01:18ZincAlloyyes. the simulator complains about unsupported compression
14:01:57copperhow old is your simulator?
14:02:02ZincAlloynot all that old
14:02:15[Saint]That's not really an answer. ;)
14:02:49ZincAlloymarch 13th
14:03:13[Saint]...of this year?
14:03:20ZincAlloy2013 :D
14:03:27[Saint]There we go.
14:04:15ItilianSaint, but the problem arose after installation of rockbox
14:04:23ZincAlloyis transparency a new feature?
14:04:35[Saint]Itilian: it doesn't matter.
14:04:49[Saint]Itilian: when the original firmware is running, no Rockbox code is in control at all.
14:05:13[Saint]So - if the problem exists across both firmwares, it points to the host, or the hardware.
14:06:14[Saint]Its possibly, but highly unlikely, that Rockbox damaged the hardware - but even if it did, that's a decision you made.
14:06:29[Saint]If it did damage your hardware, you'd be the first, though.
14:06:36[Saint](that I know of)
14:08:45ZincAlloyinteresting. with the new version the bmp shows. in funny colors
14:12:12ItilianSo if I cant connect it to my computer, then, probably, I should go to service?
14:13:01[Saint]You could try, but, you no longer have a don't think they'll do anything.
14:13:15[Saint]By all means, try, though.
14:14:55ItilianThanks for your answers
14:15:42[Saint]Sorry I can't be more help, but the problem appears to be with the device or the host you are connecting it to.
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14:49:51ZincAlloyoh. success. guess my syntax must have been faulty. argb created with ps works. with gimp, too, but the colors are off
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14:51:05ZincAlloydrawing it over album art is impossible, though.
14:52:23copperhow off?
14:52:24ZincAlloytransparency is a cool feature, but there's just no point using it if can't be superimposed over album art
14:52:33ZincAlloyred instead of black
14:53:02copperI'm using an ARGB image with 30% black without issues
14:55:08ZincAlloythe file you gave me has 50% red transparency
14:55:19copperwhat target?
14:55:29ZincAlloyclip zip
14:58:57ZincAlloythis is what it's supposed to look like:
15:00:17copperyou know you can make screen dumps in the sim by pressing "0" on the numpad
15:00:30ZincAlloyoh, useful :)
15:00:43copperalso, what's the backdrop?
15:00:57copper50% black will take the taint of the color beneath it
15:01:08ZincAlloythat was the idea.
15:01:45ZincAlloythere's no way I can make this work, but this is what it was supposed to look like:
15:02:41gevaertsZincAlloy: Wavy draws an ARGB bmp over the AA
15:03:08gevaertsI haven't tested it recently, but it *should* work
15:03:21ZincAlloyoh - ok. let me try it again
15:04:03ZincAlloyI may have to put it in a viewport
15:04:04gevaertsYou want the AA on the back buffer, whatever it's actually called
15:04:35gevaertsThe bacdrop layer
15:06:18ZincAlloyso I just load it with %Cl, draw it with %Cd and then draw a viewport over it?
15:06:50gevaertsThe viewport you draw the AA in needs %VB
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15:08:54ZincAlloyno, I get a black screen when I do that.
15:09:09ZincAlloyoh, wait, something loads. I see the cover when shutting down
15:09:17gevaertsLet me build a current sim to verify wavy still works
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15:09:36gevaertsIt *should*, but bugs happen :)
15:10:05[Saint]If the text is static, it might not look broken.
15:10:33[Saint]If it scrolls, or is in any way dynamic you used to get artifacts.
15:10:58[Saint]kugel poked at scrolling a lot recently though...
15:12:07copperstill works
15:12:13[Saint]and afaik nothing has changed that would make album art changing force a full redraw of the backdrop if it changes.
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15:13:01[Saint]which was a problem I ran into trying to get aa drawing in the backdrop
15:13:55coppergevaerts: pretty badass theme!
15:14:21[Saint]have you seen his medieval theme?
15:14:29[Saint]That one is very badass, IMO.
15:14:49gevaertscopper: too many *horrible* hacks to actually fully work though. There are lots of artifacts all over the place in the list views :)
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15:15:33gevaertsAnd I couldn't think of a way to make that vertical wavy text scroll
15:16:22gevaertsOK, it still works as expected in a current sim
15:16:59ZincAlloyok. just need to find out where I went wrong then..
15:17:13gevaertsI don't draw text over the ARGB thing though
15:17:23gevaertsMaybe it goes wrong there
15:17:26ZincAlloyI'm not trying to do that yet
15:17:31[Saint]gevaerts: what happens if AA updates?
15:17:36ZincAlloygotta start simple
15:18:08gevaerts[Saint]: testing that is a *lot* of work! It means I need *two* tracks on it!
15:18:55[Saint]holy shit those icons got chewed up.
15:20:00copperrm -rf ./[Saint]
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15:21:13gevaerts[Saint]: switching tracks with different AA seems to be fine in the sim
15:21:43[Saint]That's bloody good news.
15:21:57[Saint]That plagued me until I just gave up on it.
15:22:54ZincAlloyI don't get it. when I use %VB on the album art viewport I get a black screen.
15:23:23gevaertsZincAlloy: what does the entire wps look like right now?
15:23:38ZincAlloyit's just a full screen album art
15:24:13gevaertsI mean, can you put it on a pastebin?
15:31:55gevaertsRight. Same issue here
15:31:59*gevaerts looks around
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15:34:08[Saint]might sound silly, but try putting the AA in its own viewport.
15:34:25coppercan anyone think of an iconic two color scheme besides grayscale LCD and BSOD?
15:34:53gevaertsZincAlloy: I *think* I now remember that %VB only works if you also have foreground viewports...
15:34:59gevaertsIf I ad %V(0,0,-,-,-)
15:35:03gevaertsit works
15:35:16*[Saint] does the awesome dance
15:35:20ZincAlloynot very tweaker friendly :D
15:35:32[Saint]...which part is?
15:35:36gevaertsIt's a deliberate trap to keep newcomers out I think :)
15:39:27ZincAlloyha! works. thanks a lot!
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16:00:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:11:57ZincAlloythe text viewport only shows up for half a second and then completely disappears. it's not even a scrolling issue..
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17:04:26[Saint]awwwww yiss.
17:04:41[Saint]new gapps packages also remove pico-tts.
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20:48:51copperoh ffs
20:49:10copper%St(foreground color) returns colors in lowercase on the iPod Video, and in uppercase on the iPod Classic
20:49:38copperso I have to test for the same color twice, first in lowercase, and second in uppercase
20:50:43copperexcept not in the sim
20:53:04copperthe ipod6g sim reports colors in lowercase, while the actual iPod Classic reports colors in uppercase
20:53:22copperand contrary to the information in the wiki, %?if() is case sensitive
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22:28:33gevaertscopper: seems to be a limitation of our printf format string handling...
22:28:48gevaertsWe handle %x the same as %X, which is technically incorrect
22:29:05gevaertsBut noone probably ever thought it would matter :)
22:31:31gevaertsThe easy fix for your case would be
22:31:38gevaertsNot sure if that's the right thing to do though
22:32:04gevaertsThe other easy fix would be to make the compare case-insensitive
22:36:16gevaertsI'm not convinced about that one either, because our implementation of strcasecmp only works for ascii, which means that people using this for e.g. tag values will hit weirdness
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23:39:34[Saint]I think the problem (or part of it) is that it not clear what parts of the skin syntax are well tested and expected to work, which are considered abandoned and shouldn't be used (skinned lists, for example), and what works but only to the extent that I needed it to fulfill a specific task and haven't tested it beyond that one task.
23:41:27[Saint]Add to that the fact that there's usually at least two ways to achieve everything, and its not clear what the accepted syntax should be, and you get some fun fun times.
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23:45:48[Saint]Touchscreen git cabbie is really a jarrinf experience.
23:46:21[Saint]"touch anywhere on the screen and have 1/3 of it blocked by the quick-action panel" sure gets old fast.
23:47:13[Saint]There also seems to be some weirdness in the values displayed by the volume indicators.
23:47:57[Saint]Hmmmm. Yeah. That's all types of wrong.
23:50:27[Saint]Hmmmm...that quick-panel is blocking, too.
23:50:54*[Saint] is pretty sure he got this right in his lojg dead cabbie variant
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