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#rockbox log for 2014-05-16

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10:04:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:44:36[Saint][7]: What would be the cause of a hissing sound that gradually increases in volume to a steady level from boot time until the first time you commence playback?
10:44:49[Saint]What would be initialized after playback, but not before?
10:45:06[Saint](or possibly vice versa?)
10:45:33[Saint]copper: I believe you reported this once as well, no?
10:46:33[Saint]I have it with the new black 80GB Classic "fat" I got.
10:47:07[Saint]Its like the hardware isn't set up correctly until playback is started.
10:47:25[Saint](he says, knowing absolutely nothing of the low level hardware)
10:48:03[Saint]The only people I know of who might have an idea about this is [7] and user890104
10:48:23copperI can't be sure, but I didn't hear it with the SD card adapter
10:48:39copperpossibly because Rockbox loaded a lot faster
10:48:51copperscratch that, I can't remember
10:50:24[Saint]I read the backlog over at #freemyipod-support
10:51:32[Saint]bummer man
10:51:32[Saint]That really sucks.
10:51:32copper[Saint]: btw, to sum up, my SD-CF adapter for the iPod doesn't like my 128 GB SDXC card
10:51:32*[Saint] nods
10:51:33copperbasically the guy says it works because with the OF, it does work
10:51:33DBUGEnqueued KICK copper
10:51:33copperand the OF uses a partition
10:51:33[Saint]I read you were just going to suck it up and get a ZIF 3.3V SSD?
10:51:33copperbut his adapter likely has a bug
10:51:41copperwhenever I have the funds
10:52:01copperthing is, I can read and write to sector 0 on that card from my computer
10:52:09copperso, I don't know
10:52:13[Saint]I was lucky when I first SSDified an iPod Classic, someone left a 64GB SSD on my desk at the hackerspace.
10:52:15copperpoint is, I can't trust his adapter
10:52:32[Saint]I put a sign up for like a week or more "is this your SSD?!?", but, no one claimed it.
10:52:41[Saint]So, score.
10:53:01copperI wanted to buy the SSD initially, but I figured that an A-DATA SSD might not be much more reliable that the adapter and a branded SDXC card
11:03:16copperI took a gamble and I lost
11:03:16[Saint]The adapters add a whole world of the unknown, sadly.
11:03:16copperI managed to run Rockbox with my 32 GB SDHC card, and indeed it's super reactive
11:03:17copperso much better than the HDD
11:03:17CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
11:03:17*[Saint] nods
11:03:17coppernow I just have to wait
11:03:17[Saint]and lighter.
11:03:17***Alert Mode level 1
11:03:17copperI'm copying music on the microsdxc card that pamaury shipped back and I'm going to use it on my phone
11:03:17[Saint]You'll be able to flick off the adapter to some other head-fi-er or hydrogenaudio-er.
11:03:17DBUGEnqueued KICK [Saint]
11:03:17***Alert Mode level 2
11:03:17coppernah I'm gonna give it to TheSeven
11:03:17[Saint]AH, right.
11:03:17***Alert Mode level 3
11:03:17copperthe price doesn't make it worth selling back
11:03:18***Alert Mode level 4
11:03:18copperI'm selling my 128 GB card on ebay though
11:03:18***Alert Mode level 5
11:03:18[Saint]Also - yes, solid state iPods are very quick. And with the increased battery capacity (if you got a bigger battery - which I know you didn't personally), and the reduced battery usage, they are very performant.
11:03:19***Alert Mode level 6
11:03:19[Saint]My builds have a few other tweaks, like a slight underclock, and no UI-boosting.
11:03:19***Alert Mode level 7
11:03:19[Saint](UI boost is irrelevant on the Classic IMO)
11:03:19***Alert Mode level 8
11:03:19copperisn't it useful for scrolling?
11:03:19***Alert Mode level 9
11:03:19copperscrolling metadata
11:03:19***Alert Mode level 10
11:03:19[Saint]Its needed on the PP iPods but not the N2G or Classic.
11:03:19***Alert Mode level 11
11:03:19[Saint]Nah, its not needed for scrolling at all.
11:03:19***Alert Mode level 12
11:03:19[Saint]My builds even have a slightly lower minimum clock, and don't boost on UI interaction, and scrolling is fine.
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 13
11:03:20[Saint](48MHz vs. 54MHz)
11:03:20 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 14
11:03:20copperpamaury: I received the package, thanks
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 15
11:03:20copperyou shipped the wrong SD adapter though
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 16
11:03:20copperyou're so flaky :D
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 17
11:03:20[Saint]dircache makes scrolling quick
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 18
11:03:20[Saint]but you can turn dircache off with a solid state disk
11:03:20pamaurycopper: really ? I was so absolutely sure it was yours :-/
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 19
11:03:20[Saint]as access is essentially free, and fast.
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 20
11:03:20copperyou shipped an unbranded one
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 21
11:03:20coppermine is red, branded SanDisk, like the microsdxc card
11:03:20***Alert Mode level 22
11:03:20copperno biggie, the adpater seems to be working
11:03:21DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
11:03:21pamauryok, if you have any problem I'll send you yours then
11:03:21pamaury(if I find it because I have tons of sandisk's one)
11:03:21***Alert Mode level 23
11:03:21[Saint]I'm sure they perform the exact same function. :)
11:03:21***Alert Mode level 24
11:03:21copperyeah I figured you must have a ton of those :)
11:03:21***Alert Mode level 25
11:03:21[Saint]They breed.
11:03:21***Alert Mode level 26
11:03:21[Saint]The ones that go ferral are preyed upon by wild USB cables.
11:13:22***Alert Mode OFF
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11:33:19[Saint]whoops - ok, can't really undercolt it seems.
11:33:58[Saint]can't really undervolt either.
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12:04:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:50:54 Join wodz [0] (
12:56:10wodzpamaury: I was thinking about gdb-over-hwstub thing. In order to be useful hwstub needs to be able to read gprs (easy), set PC to arbitrary address aka jump (is it supported already?) and set breakpoint. The last one can be problematic. We could patch undef_instr or swi vectors to jump back to hwstub but I can't understand how this is reported back to gdb
12:57:06wodzah and rd/rw memory obviously but this is supported by hwstub already
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13:12:17pamaurywodz: you could poll or use an interrupt endpoint, but anyhow, I do you make sure the running doesn't interfere or even overwrite hwstub ?
13:12:50pamaurybecause current you can jump but it is expected that the running code will just never return and most probably overwrite hwstu
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13:19:26wodzwell, you have to take care of this yourself. There is no way to secure hwstub in mem
13:21:28pamauryand it's also very tricky because it means you then have to intercept undef or swi interrupt handler
13:21:34pamauryand rely on the code not to touch usb
13:22:36wodzyes, I know the limitations of this approach
13:24:32pamauryanyway, if you don't want to implement interrupt transfers, best way is probably polling
13:26:30wodzLooking at gdb serial protocol it seems that it must use polling. 'The client issues packets which are requests for information or action. Depending on the nature of the client packet, the server may respond with a packet of its own. ' where client is gdb and server is the stub
13:28:12pamauryalso it means hwstub must be entirely interrupt drive (possibly using a timer for tick task)
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14:04:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:36:12wodzpamaury: how does interrupt transfers work?
14:36:20pamauryjust like bulk
14:36:34pamaurythe device set up a transfer and in fact the host is polling
14:37:25wodzok so not that much different
14:38:52wodzok, now assume we have stub which sets breakpoint and jumps to other program. It runs for prolonged time until breakpoint is hit. The host polls the status but as long as we are back in hwstub it will get no response. Will it work?
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14:39:36wodzI mean doesn't usb or libusb give up after some timeout considering device dead?
14:40:46gevaertswodz: what does "no response" mean? No data (i.e. NAK on the bus)? If so, that's fine
14:41:07wodzgevaerts: I mean nothing at all from device side
14:41:42gevaertsThat's not going to work well
14:42:32wodzso I would need to intercept usb irq then
14:43:48gevaertsThat's going to depend on the usb hardware I think. I mean, if the endpoints are set up properly, at least some of them will NAK stuff without bothering you
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14:45:42wodzright, NAKing everything until breakpoint is hit would be nice
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15:06:17pamaurywodz: no issue there, libusb for interrupt can wait for an arbitrary long time, you just need to setup the endpoint and NAK properly. However you still get the problem that you can send any command in the mean time
15:10:17wodzpamaury: pretty clean implementation of the remote serial protocol part
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16:04:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:06:48kugelcodebrainz (logs): nice!
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18:54:36copper08:07:11 UTC * TheSeven wonders why people still use anything but phones for this purpose anyway ;)
18:55:02copperI took a walk in the city and I used my 5" smartphone as a DAP
18:55:12copperturns out it's awfully inconvenient
18:55:25copperit's too big for my jeans front pockets
18:55:56copperI could put it in my jeans back pocket, but I'd be worried about dropping it, getting it ripped off me, or simply sitting on it
18:56:09copperso I had to put it in my back pack
18:56:40copperbut then to access it, change volume or skip a track, I have to open my backpack pocket, open the phone's cover, press power
18:56:46copperwaaaay too much fiddling
18:57:10copperwhereas I can put my Fuze+ in my front pocket, access it fast enough and not worry about it
18:57:29copper(I live in a hot region)
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18:57:52coppereven the iPod Classic is more convenient than my smartphone for that
18:58:00CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 4 seconds at the last flood
18:58:00*GodEater uses his pebble to do all that with his phone
18:58:12GodEaterno need to take it out of a pocket / backpack / locked safe :D
18:58:23copperthere's still the problem of the headphone cable
18:58:38GodEatermy backpack has a headphone cable hole...
18:58:40copperhaving it tethered to my back pack is very inconvenient
18:58:49GodEaterbut also, bluetooth headphones
18:59:00copperfuck bluetooth
18:59:22copperthat limits your choice in headphones / IEMs
19:00:51copperthe big downside with using a DAP, as opposed to a phone, is that I don't hear my phone rining
19:01:35coppersmartphones are getting bigger, and more akin to portable computers than DAPs
19:01:49coppereven my 4.65" galaxy nexus tore a hole in my jeans
19:01:59coppera big fat hole
19:02:16coppernot right away, but from friction over a year
19:03:32ZincAlloyremember when phones got smaller and smaller? :)
19:03:36copperoh, and if I want to switch to a different album on the phone, I first need to unlock my phone
19:03:42copperdraw a pattern
19:03:54copperand load the app
19:03:59ZincAlloyhow annoying.
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19:28:05GodEatermy Nexus 5 sits in the front pocket of my jeans just fine. Clearly you need larger jeans.
19:37:46copperGodEater: the jeans that got punctured were large
19:38:22GodEaterwell what can I say? That's not happened to me =/
19:38:34copperone of the corners of the phone would stick out and cause friction against the fabric as I would walk
19:38:54copperand, large pants are no longer fashionable :P
19:41:22copperI can hardly even find them in stores these days
19:41:36coppermore often than not, the largest cut available is "regular"
19:41:41copperwhich is what I'm wearing now
19:42:30copperpreviously I was wearing the "relaxed" cut
19:42:57GodEaterhmm. The Replay store always has something I find "relaxed"
19:42:59copperover here anyway
19:43:26copperevery fashionable young male is wearing those filthy "slim" cuts
19:43:35copperlike it's the 80s all over again
19:43:51GodEatersame here
19:43:58GodEaterbut I can still find jeans which fit
19:45:42copperthese days, everyone here does use their large smartphone for music, and they hold it in their hand at all times
19:46:06copperbut I would be too afraid to drop it or get it snatched by some guy with an accomplice on a scooter
19:46:14coppernot to mention that I like to have my hands free
19:48:09coppersmartphones are probably the single most stolen item these days
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20:39:18invalid1ahoy, does anyone have information on randomly corrupted (large) files on rockboxed ipod 5.5g?
20:42:46copperinvalid1: right after transfering those files from your PC?
20:44:02invalid1yes. i copy something, reread it with dd circumventing the file cache and pipe the result to cmp.
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20:46:07invalid1like so: cp foo /media/ROCKBOX && dd if=/media/ROCKBOX/foo bs=$((8<<20)) iflag=direct | cmp foo -
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20:47:08copperthat only happens with your iPod?
20:47:31invalid1yes. other usb media are generally fine.
20:47:40coppertry "cmp -b | wc -l"
20:47:46copperto see how many differences there are
20:48:00copperif it's only one or two, it could be your RAM (bitflip error)
20:48:07copperif it's a whole bunch, then I don't know
20:49:04invalid1good idea. let's see...
20:50:36invalid1only one differing line:
20:50:45invalid1foo - differ: byte 72988801, line 284476 is 163 s 175 }
20:51:36copperbefore trying to debug the iPod, you should run over night
20:51:43copperunless someone else has a better idea
20:51:58copperRAM errors are not as uncommon as one may think
20:53:04copperand they cause precisely that sort of file corruption
20:53:35copperprograms like cp don't detect any error
20:53:42invalid1ok, i'll do that, but seeing that i've been having this problem for years and i've successfully run memtest (on my PC) in the mean time, i don't have high hopes for that cause of problem.
20:53:46coppersometimes even cmp won't detect it
20:54:27copperinvalid1: better do it anyway just to make sure
20:54:48copperbecause if it's not that, I kinda get the feeling it's going to be tough to diagnose
20:56:02invalid1yep. i know. is there a RAM test for ipod/rockbox?
20:56:23coppergood question!
20:56:31copperthat would be an awesome plugin
20:57:02invalid1that's probably better implemented as boot stage program.
20:57:13invalid1like memtest86
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20:57:38invalid1wow... good find
20:57:45copperPlugins -> Applications -> test_mem
20:58:02copperI'm not sure that tests for integrity
20:58:16copperit only displays throughput and latency
21:03:57 Quit Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
21:08:10invalid1mh... "cmp -b" was wrong. "cmp -lb" makes more sense.
21:08:54invalid1now i have a long consecutive range of differing bytes
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21:10:21gevaertsAny pattern?
21:14:25invalid1dunno. i stopped after ~20MB of consecutive errors and recopied everything from the first error on.
21:17:09gevaertsI assume you've ruled out plain old filesystem corruption?
21:17:34invalid1i tested that before i wrote here
21:18:38gevaertsI haven't seen anything like that. I know that back in the day when we started developing the USB driver there was corruption on the Sansa players (which use the same chip inside), but that was then shown to be a problem with the SD driver in those, not USB
21:20:07gevaertsGetting errors after several tens of megabytes seems to rule out a RAM issue on the ipod, since we use the same buffer (128K in total) repeatedly for the entire transfer, so if it were that I'd expect problems earlier
21:20:37gevaertsHave you tried this with the emergency disk mode or the original firmware?
21:21:03invalid1no. i converted immediately after buying it.
21:21:26invalid1emergency mode might be worth a try
21:21:38*gevaerts nods
21:22:14invalid1that would rule out faulty hardware and firmware
21:22:31invalid1*chipset firmware
21:22:50gevaertsPersonally I'd of course prefer a hardware issue :)
21:23:17gevaertsIt could be my bug otherwise!
21:25:40invalid1reading from ipod doesn't seem to be corrupted. i compared the file repeatedly and successfully without file cache.
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21:36:35xza23Hi. I'd like to know if it is possible that "rockbox" will read a podcast file and play with bookmarks like the stock firmware that came with my device sansa clip zip
21:36:47xza23play it
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22:04:29copper"This thread made me appreciate my aging 5.5g machine all over again. The Rockbox firmware really made the audio of this unit come alive. It sounded fairly mediocre with Apple Firmware. I never would have imagined that there could be a difference, but the change is not subtle."
22:04:43coppernot subtle!
22:05:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:05:19copperthanks to the magic Rockbox fairies
22:05:50digrizi just purchased an inexpensive android phone to run rockbox on
22:06:46digrizto replace my ipod video of considerable age
22:06:56digrizcheap phone and 64 gig microsd
22:07:31coppersee the logs about the smartphone conversation earlier :)
22:08:22ZincAlloyhope your trousers are baggy.
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