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#rockbox log for 2014-05-17

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08:05:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:29:44copperguys, 3.14 needs to come out
08:29:53copperwhat's the hold up?
08:30:31copperthough it'd be nice to fix the %?if() thing before the release
08:35:14[Saint]I don't see any reason to do a release other than some form of "last hoorah".
08:36:04[Saint]Most people are acutely aware that the dev builds are perfectly usable for almost every target.
08:36:14 Join lebellium [0] (
08:36:27[Saint]A release would be good to do a a wrap up, but that's about it really.
08:37:15[Saint]It would be nice to do it just before some of the older targets are retired.
08:37:24[Saint]Give them one last release.
08:38:02copperactually a lot of people are running "the last stable release"
08:38:35[Saint]Given that you don't have numbers just as I don't, I'll just shrug and nod.
08:40:01copperjust people on ABI and Head-Fi, and those are the more adventurous type
08:43:54[Saint]Most of them are also clearly insane - so I'm not sure that's a great data point. ;)
08:44:28[Saint]I was reading the backlog regarding DAP vs. smartphone, and I have a question for you:
08:44:33copperactually, on hydrogenaudio too
08:44:41[Saint]What the fuck do you do with your phone normally, when not using it as a DAP?
08:44:54copperwhat do you think?
08:44:55[Saint]If its so awkward to transport.
08:45:21copperobviously I make some calls, but mostly I use it as a portable internet device
08:45:28[Saint]Surely you take it with you when you're not using it as a DAP also?
08:45:39[Saint]Errr, I think that was taken too literally.
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08:46:13[Saint]I'm meaning, if you're saying its awkward to use as a DAP - isn;t it just as awkward to use as a smartphone?
08:46:28copperno, because I don't use my smartphone while walking
08:46:50[Saint]What happens if you get a call or SMS? Stop and unpack?
08:47:07[Saint]...I guess you wouldn;t even notice it.
08:47:19[Saint]I couldn't do that.
08:47:26coppercouldn't do what?
08:47:49[Saint]If I didn't have my phone readily accessible I'd be missing calls left right and center.
08:48:06copperit is accessible
08:48:21copperbut I don't spend much time on phone calls
08:48:28[Saint]Then surely its accessible for use as a DAP, I don't seem to be getting the point.
08:48:41[Saint]But apparently I'm not the only one, so there's that.
08:49:17copperwhen used as a DAP, my IEMs are tethered to the backpack, which is very inconvenient (and dangerous)
08:50:13[Saint]Also - what FW makes you unlock the device to skip tracks or change the volume?
08:50:26[Saint]Mine surely doesn't.
08:50:31copperI didn't say it did that
08:50:43copperI said I needed to unlock the phone to select a different album
08:51:14copperwhen I use a DAP, I'm gonna press pause and play a few times when going to a store or needing to talk to someone
08:51:37copperI don't get nearly as many calls as the number of times I have to talk to some real live person in front of me
08:52:14[Saint]pause and play is accessible from the notification pulldown - which when audio is playing - is accessible from the lock screen for me.
08:52:21copperso, when I have my smartphone and I'm not using it as a DAP, I don't have to fiddle with it nearly as much
08:52:27copperyes, for me too
08:52:55copper[Saint]: anyway, where do you put your smartphone?
08:53:17[Saint]In my pocket, 24/7 when its not on my desk or bedside cabinet.
08:53:45copperI put it in my coat's pocket when it's not too warm to wear one
08:53:58copperbut in summer, that's just not possible over here
08:54:48[Saint]This is sliding well off topic - but meh - almost every pair of pants I have fits a 6" phone.
08:55:26copperlike I said, my phone would fit in my jeans pocket, but it tore a hole
08:55:29[Saint]All of my dress pants fit it easily, most of them the phone can sit in the change pocket too (not the tiny change pocket - the one that's sometimes inside another pocket)
08:56:21copperand I find it very uncomfortable too
08:56:31[Saint]With most of them I can still use the proximity sensor when its in my pocket too, which is a bonus.
08:56:35copperhaving a big rectangular object in my front jeans pocket
08:56:49*[Saint] is used to having a large object in his pants.
08:57:07copperwell I only have room for ONE large object in there!
08:58:21copperlike I said, most people here keep their smartphone in their hand
08:58:33copperbecause they're just too damn big and fiddly
08:59:08[Saint]I thought it was more similar to baboons and their bright red asses. A form of posturing.
08:59:20coppereh, perhaps
08:59:29[Saint]I always assumed those people could put them away if they wanted to.
08:59:45coppernot with what they're wearing, no
09:00:07copperthe ideal location for me in the inside jacket pocket
09:00:16copperbut it's already too hot to wear a jacket
09:01:18[Saint]You need a Pebble, or the Oppo N1's cute little button thingy.
09:01:35[Saint]Spending large amounts of money always temporarily fixes problems you don't have.
09:02:21copperdoesn't help with the IEM chord
09:02:54copperand I already have a nice watch
09:04:39[Saint]You seem to have a perfectly annoying use case.
09:04:47[Saint]Just on the very edge of convenience.
09:05:50[Saint]I _thought_ I would have all these issues as phones got larger and larger, but they seem fairly stable around the 4.5~6" mark which I'm finding tolerable still.
09:06:20copperthe phone that tore a hole in my jeans was 4.65"
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09:32:06copper[Saint]: I guess I could use a bluetooth receiver, but last time I tried one of those (2009), I could hear bad lossy artifacts
09:32:21copperdunno what bluetooth codecs my phone supports
09:32:31[Saint]Ancient BT tech sucked.
09:32:45[Saint]BT uses less power and has much higher throughput these days.
09:33:31 Quit us`0gb (Quit:
09:33:52copperSBC is still standard though
09:37:08copperno word on supported codecs, but it's designed for my phone (if that means anything)
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10:00:34copperoh, my Xperia Z1 supports apt-X
10:05:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:11:32copperand stupidly enough, the Sony BT receivers do NOT support apt-X
10:16:20 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@
10:30:55copperseems like the bluetooth market is still opaque wrt to the codecs used and sound quality
10:31:10copperthey're still mostly SBC
10:31:31copperusing that would mean poor lossy encoding of already lossy encoded files
10:31:58copperI can't imagine today's receivers are much better than the ones I tried in 2009
10:32:05copperSBC is still SBC
10:34:46[Saint]bluez does MPEG12/MP3
10:35:02[Saint](bluez being the BT stack used)
10:35:27[Saint]a2dp MP3 direct stream FTW
10:36:39copperisn't bluez a linux thing?
10:36:53[Saint]which is also a... ;)
10:37:27copperwhat, android?
10:38:58copperstill doesn't tell me what those receivers support
10:39:46[Saint]Well, this is true.
10:40:40[Saint]I would imagine that anything reasonably modern, that's branded (and therefor should have no issues with licensing) should be in the "Just Works" category.
10:41:46[Saint]My BT experience with Android is solely limited to streaming between devices though so I can't really say.
10:42:19coppereven brands like Sony can't be trusted with anything
10:42:20[Saint]Well, that and internet sharing.
10:45:03copperand I'm getting tired of buying stuff that doesn't work
10:46:28[Saint]BT headsets for quality audio is something I know absolutely sweet fuck all about.
10:47:39copperand they make sure you can't return the item by packaging them in such a way that you can't get to the item without tearing everything apart
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13:06:58copperHEAD data aborts when trying to play a file on the Fuze+
13:08:06copperwith my adapted Basta theme
13:09:57copperwhen loading either the WPS or FMS actually
13:10:07copperno time to debug now though
13:12:47AlexP[Saint]: Didn't android drop bluez in 4.2 for one developed by Broadcom?
13:16:57copperdamn it
13:17:01coppersomeone broke Rockbox
13:20:33copperJdGordon: 01cbb795e9a059238f0e39d44d279c1d52874e06 don't load the same bmp image more than once in a skin
13:20:45 Quit mikroflops (Quit: <(^_^)>)
13:20:49copperthat completely breaks my Basta theme
13:21:14copperand makes the classic and fuze+ data abort when entering the WPS or FMS
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13:29:31JdGordCopper: ah crap. OK can someone revert it? I won't have time tomorrow to fix it
13:34:16copperfull on crash
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13:40:00JdGordCan you link the crashing wps?
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14:05:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:35:17invalidgevaerts: i checked for file corruption in emergency disk mode like you recommended yesterday: there are none.
14:36:05invalidso there seems to be a bug in the usb or file system stack
14:37:43invalidmy uneducated guess: the code paths for block devices and file systems with non-standard block sizes aren't well tested. (ipod 5.5g has 2048 bytes per block.)
14:43:54gevaertsinvalid: do you see anything in dmesg when the problem occurs?
14:44:12invalidhm... let's see
14:51:41 Quit GodEater (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
14:53:26coppercan someone revert 01cbb79 please
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14:54:57invalidgevaerts: nope. nothing related.
14:59:32gevaertsinvalid: which rockbox build are you running? 3.13 or some recent current development build?
15:02:22gevaertsOK. Could you try a current build? There are some known issues with the 3.13 theme engine that have interfered with proper working of USB on some other devices. I haven't heard of anything like this, but those are caused by bad memory accesses, so you never know...
15:05:34invalidi'll investigate ist
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16:05:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:58:35copperBasta for the Fuze+ (240x320):
17:00:56copper(doesn't work with HEAD, until 01cbb795 gets reverted)
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17:28:14dunpealHi. I'm having trouble with 3.13. Every time I set Repeat to "All", it resets back to "Off" after a while.
17:28:59 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
17:29:26copper3.13 is over one year old
17:30:08dunpealcopper: What should I use then?
17:30:09copper[Saint]: the other problem with bluetooth, is that you're using a completely different DAC / headphone amp than your device
17:30:12copperit better be good
17:30:24copperdunpeal: current HEAD is broken
17:30:28copperwhat's your device?
17:30:34dunpealcopper: Sansa Clip+
17:30:45copperget this:
17:31:39copper[Saint]: and those things have tiny batteries, sometimes resulting in insufficient volume
17:31:52dunpealcopper: excuse my ignorance, but how am I supposed to install this?
17:32:29copperdunpeal: mount your clip+ over usb and extract that archive at the root of the clip+, saying "yes" when your unpacking software asks you to overwrite files
17:35:10dunpealcopper: OK. I thought some other files above /.rockbox would have to be updated.
17:36:00copperthat archive only contains /.rockbox files
17:37:22dunpealcopper: right, I mean: I thought that to update the version, one has to update some files in the / (root)
17:39:11dunpeali.e. just updating /.rockbox would not suffice.
17:40:03copperno, just /.rockbox
17:41:50dunpealcopper: thanks, I extracted the files as you advised, it indeed upgraded the rockbox version.
17:45:01copper[Saint]: gah, the opacity with bluetooth stuff is horrible
17:45:49copperthey never give ANY of the specs that matter
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18:05:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:16:09meehoogot a problem with rockbox. I cannot uninstall it, because the mounting point cannot be found
18:16:44meehooand the windows does not see the internal disk of my sansa clip plus
18:16:56meehooIve got Windows 7
18:19:09meehoohey, anyone there?
18:21:29meehoocould anyone give me their rockbox media player (sansa clip+ 4 GB) drivers? windows says they;re not instlaled
18:21:41meehooand I cannot update them or anything
18:21:46invalidafaik there are no special drivers
18:22:11invalidif windows doesn't recognise your player, then the firmware is likely broken in some way.
18:22:28copperboot the OF
18:22:58invalidhave you tried any of the FAQs like ?
18:23:09copper"To boot into the original firmware, press and hold the Left button while turning on the player. "
18:28:18meehoono, I haven't.
18:28:27meehooI'll try then
18:35:20meehoorockbox utility freezes while trying to autodetect my player
18:35:31meehooboth versions, 131 and 140
18:38:42[7]gevaerts: what's the general opinion on adding SMART support to rockbox?
18:39:11[7](via usb storage, no on-target decoding)
18:39:59meehoothanks for the hints
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19:15:22gevaerts[7]: I don't know if there's a general opinion. I think it would be nice to have
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19:31:22*copper didn't know that SMART over USB is possible
19:32:02invalidyeah i only learnt that a few months ago as well
19:36:24[7]those T13 standards are an awful mess of crossreferences
19:36:41[7]you need to read like 5 of these standards to implement it
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19:40:45copper11:20:34 UTC <copper> JdGordon: 01cbb795e9a059238f0e39d44d279c1d52874e06 don't load the same bmp image more than once in a skin
19:40:50copper11:29:31 UTC <JdGord> Copper: ah crap. OK can someone revert it? I won't have time tomorrow to fix it
19:40:56copper[7]: ^
19:41:31[7]copper: ?
19:41:59copperthat commit makes Rockbox data abort, can you revert it please?
19:42:45coppertested on Classic and Fuze+
19:43:31[7]I don't even have commit access
19:44:05[7]I did back in the old days, but never bothered to set things up again after the transition from SVN to git
19:44:16copperI am disappoint!
19:44:35copperI'm just gonna make those copper builds a permanent thing
19:44:51copper[ COPPER APPROVED ]
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20:05:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:10:00[7]does someone have a clue how to READ those LBA48 task file regs?
20:10:16[7]do I just read each reg twice? when do I get the high or low byte?
20:10:30[7]I didn't think this was possible at all, but apparently this SAB spec requires it
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21:36:22*[7] finally found the HOB bit (hobbit? lol)
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22:05:03TheSevenuser890104: are you looking for a task? ;)
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