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#rockbox log for 2014-05-23

00:08:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:26:25 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:29:33 Join MarcAndersen [0] (
00:30:49MarcAndersenHey, I was just wondering why the zen and other creative players are not in the table of dev builds on the main website?
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01:09:33 Quit ender` (Quit: Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. -- Napoleon Bonaparte)
01:14:04saratogaMarcAndersen: what do you mean?
01:19:37dfktMarcAndersen, iirc only stable and unstable ports are auto-built, not unusable ones
01:20:19MarcAndersenbut the zen x-fi is unstable, isn't it?
01:20:31dfktnot according to the front page
01:23:18saratogaoh the download table
01:23:44saratogathey're all autobuilt, but we don't put download links under dev builds for the unusable targets since usually you have to dig through the wiki quite a lot just to figure out how to install
01:25:11MarcAndersenok then, is there anything new about the x-fi, when it will be classed as unstable?
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01:35:15[Saint]Sometime between now and possibly never.
01:37:55MarcAndersenthat was a good answer...
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03:02:21sudomanhello. is it possible to install the plain rockbox bootloader onto the sansa clip+, without the OF, to get single-boot mode?
03:04:00alexbobpor at least, not without writing code yourself to do that, because the current bootloader is only written to piggyback on the OF
03:04:15alexbobpand it's a dangerous idea and there's really no point. think of the OF as a last resort rescue mode
03:06:17sudomanhm, ok. that makes sense. i don't have the skills or tools to work on that right now, but the more source code, the better. :)
03:07:17alexbobpyou're already not loading the OF code unless you actually boot the OF
03:07:32alexbobpit wouldn't be more source code, it'd just be less binary code that you're not running anyways
03:09:15sudomanhm. sounds like it could be a fun project some day if i get a spare clip+ and some recovery tools.
03:09:34sudomanso there's no additional init code needed by the rockbox bootloader?
03:09:54sudoman(just to be clear)
03:11:32alexbobpwell I don't know the details
03:11:58alexbobpbut I do know that rockbox always takes a minimalistic approach to getting its code to boot, to avoid people bricking their devices and getting mad
03:12:06alexbobpif you make this code change it will be just for you. I doubt it will make it into the project.
03:12:19sudomancool cool :)
03:13:24sudomanyeah, i'm quasi-purist about floss, but if the code isn't run, then i don't mind much. if some code gets run during init, then there's more work involved, which could be fun to poke into some day.
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03:19:07alexbobpI'm not actually sure but my guess would be that the bootloader code only runs any OF code if you choose to boot OF
03:19:14alexbobpbut I dunno
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03:25:49sudomanyeah, i'm taking a look at comments in rbutil/mkasmboot.c and it looks like the first bootloader is created by rb, and it loads either firmware
03:26:01sudomanexcellent! :-)
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03:29:18sudoman: )
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11:17:54wodzpamaury: ping
11:21:47pamaurywodz: pong
11:23:55wodzpamaury: I have a question how to add function to hwstub_shell? Say something simple stupid first like C function printing 'hello world' or something
11:24:30pamauryyou mean a function you can call from lua ?
11:25:42pamaurytake a look at my_lua_printlog: first you write it, it has to take "lua_State *" and return the number of parameters pushed as return
11:26:06wodzlooking at print_log() it is wrapped in my_lua_printlog() and then referenced in my_lua_import_hwstub()
11:26:16pamaurythen register it, to do so first you need to figure out where you want to put (global or in a table)
11:26:41pamauryyeah the wrapping is necessary because lua calls are implement by jumping to your function with a lua context
11:26:59pamauryfor example my_lua_udelay
11:27:01wodzwhat does it mean 'in table'?
11:27:15pamaurylike DEV.my_hello_word_function()
11:27:20pamauryis in DEV table
11:28:10pamauryyou can look for lua tutorials on the internet, there is nothing specific to hwstub here
11:28:44pamauryit might be a bit confusing at first ^^
11:29:05wodzI believe so but the import thing looks cryptic to me
11:29:07pamauryfrom example in my_lua_udelay(), you use lua_gettop() to get the nymber of arguments received
11:29:31pamauryimport ?
11:30:36pamauryah yeah, that's basicallty building tables
11:30:58pamauryfor example:
11:30:58pamaurylua_newtable(g_lua); // options
11:30:58pamaurylua_pushboolean(g_lua, g_quiet);
11:30:58DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
11:30:58pamaurylua_setfield(g_lua, -2, "quiet");
11:31:35pamaurythis creates a tablez, push it, create a boolean, push it, then put the boolean in the table (by name "quiet"), pop the boolean, the table is still pushed
11:31:57pamauryand it goes on and on
11:32:09pamauryand when you are done, you give a global name to the table, using lua_setglobal(g_lua, "hwstub");
11:32:45wodzso this example basicaly builds something.options.quiet bool var?
11:33:46pamaurylua can be confusing because it's stack based
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11:35:39pamauryhowever if you screw up, my code will tell you because it checks the import function is stack balanced (ie you don't push/pop too much)
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16:35:15ulmutulHello, I have some YH-820 keymap improvements up my sleeve, but I'd like to have g#814 pushed before.
16:35:26ulmutulCan one of the devs have a look? (No hurry though)
16:37:57pamauryulmutul: I guess someone with the devices should try it
16:38:21pamauryI can push it but I don't own any of them so I'll have to trust someone it's all ok
16:38:32pamauryif you are the only one to have them, I can trust you ^^
16:38:56ulmutulAt the moment it should change nothing.
16:39:32pamauryulmutul: so g#814 just split the keymaps without any change ?
16:40:13ulmutulI hope it compiles with every target :)
16:41:05pamauryah yeah they have a completely different physical layout
16:41:07ulmutulWhen I commit the keymap changes it would be good, if someone with a YH-920/925 could test.
16:41:45pamauryif g#814 doesn't change anything, try to build a yh-920 binary
16:41:50pamauryif it compiles it should be fine
16:42:03pamauryalthough it would be better if someone with the device could test it, just to make sure
16:45:46ulmutulIs anyone with a YH-920/925 active?
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17:23:36ken_fallonIs it a bug that playing files in a directory get's shuffeled ?
17:23:55coppersounds like you haveā€¦ shuffle on :)
17:26:20ken_fallonOK but the current playlist is still shuffeled - Is there a way to remove them all or do I need to do it one by one
17:27:26copperturn shuffle off, go in the file browser and select a file to play
17:27:49 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
17:28:24ken_fallonShuffel is off - cleared current playlist - pressed play on the first one and they were shuffled
17:28:41coppermaybe you have "repeat shuffle" on
17:29:16copperwhich is like "shuffle" except it never stops playing
17:29:32copperit's in the "repeat" option
17:29:47ken_fallonShuffel - no, Repeat off, Then I go back and shuffel is on again
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17:31:10ken_fallonAgain shuffel is been turned on
17:32:59ken_fallonOK went to another dir and it did it ok and then went back to the dir I was interested in and it plays in order correctly
17:35:01ken_falloncopper: thanks - I can now regain my sainity - what little there was to begin with
17:36:07ken_fallonthanks for your help
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18:46:04copperpamaury: since you've been playing with your sd card analyser thingie, do you know what could cause a Lexar SDXC card to work with emCORE (via an adapter) and nothing else?
18:46:39copperor, what kind of stuff are you able to analyse wrt sd cards?
18:47:03pamaurycopper: is it specific to this sdcard ?
18:47:35coppernope, all and any Lexar cards
18:47:42pamauryMy guess would be that this card either doesn't enforce the spec or has stricter timing than most and maybe emCore uses a setup of the hardware which is more correct than Rockbox ?
18:47:43copperand none of the sandisk cards, for instance
18:48:55copperthe interesting part was that both modern and old (as in 4 years old) SD cards from Lexar work, and modern and old SanDisk cards don't
18:49:19pamauryto analyser I have plus a logic analyser plus a custom protocol analyser (because my logic analyser doesn't support SD transfers)
18:49:53copperI don't know, I would think that sd cards are fairly basic devices, but I guess I'm wrong
18:50:03pamaurybut since my logic analyser doesn't do 100Mhz on 4 lines, I have to throttle the speed to ~24Mhz to get something usable
18:50:08copperI mean, how much "smarts" can you cram in there
18:50:17pamaurycopper: a lot actually !
18:50:41pamaurythe sd protocol is not that trivial electrically, especially for HS cards
18:50:55copperas complicated / flaky as USB?
18:52:31copperTheSeven and I played with larger timeout values, btw
18:52:38copperdidn't work, even with stupidly large values
18:53:38pamauryUSB is differently, the problem with USB is not really the protocol itself but rather the implementation on some cores which is just "WTF"
18:53:52copperI'm going to order a Lexar card which I know will work, but I'm still uneasy about not knowing what makes them special, and, possibly, if I should fear for future weird bugs
18:54:25pamauryI think timeout is not the problem, might be things like drive strength on the bus lines, or sampling speed, or forgot to remove some pull-up at HS
18:55:15pamauryor forgot to enforce the "8-clock delay" after some operations
18:55:17copperthat's 3 people with advanced knowledge about such things, who don't know what the problem is :D
18:55:23pamauryreally the SD spec has many corner cases
18:56:06pamauryto really debug this you would need a logic analyser, maybe even an oscilloscope
18:56:20coppersounds extreme
18:56:51copperso basically you need to reverse engineer all that stuff?
18:58:51pamauryif you have no idea where the problem is, basically yeah
18:59:21pamaurybut since on the ipods we don't have the doc for everything, that might not help fixing it though
19:00:06copperI guess those big corporations share specs with makers of compatible hardware
19:00:12copperbut not individuals?
19:01:38pamaurythe MMC spec is public
19:01:41ZincAlloysounds a lot like those mystery jpegs that look too white in rockbox :D
19:01:42pamaurythe SD is partly public
19:02:03pamaurythe problem here is more the SoC which is partly undocumented I think
19:02:17copperthere's a SoC on SD cards?
19:03:30pamauryon the host
19:03:41pamauryyou are talking about ipods right ?
19:04:12pamaury(but btw there is a soc on those cards yeah)
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20:44:19b0hoonulmutul: Hi. i have both yh-820 and the yh-920, i'll test it later. But i see it just splits the keymap, so it should just work.
20:44:51b0hoonpamaury: ping
20:45:09pamauryb0hoon: pong, I will be afk in 5 min :-/
20:45:32pamaurybut you can write things and I'll answer later
20:46:26b0hoonpamaury: i see you pass data through the SPI (Sansa View)
20:47:42b0hoondid you try to write it at address 0x14E00000 directly?
20:49:27ulmutulb0hoon: fine, I've just a yh-820, so you can test on both targets when I commit actual keymap changes.
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20:50:40b0hoonpamaury: but you have to set PORTJ_ENABLE &= ~0x02 before (in the init function)
20:51:03b0hoonulmutul: alright
20:52:13b0hoonpamaury: i think there was a function rewritten from the OF for this in the lcd driver
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20:53:24b0hoonpamaury: it worked like that for me, and it was quite fast
20:56:11b0hoonpamaury: yeah, it's "unknown03()" function in the lcd driver
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