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#rockbox log for 2014-06-15

00:04:28 Quit y4n (Quit: PÆNTS ØLF!)
00:19:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:23:09TheSevenpamaury: did you get around to testing my driver yet? :)
00:32:50kugelTheSeven: re bitfields, no there's unfortunately no other way of doing it safely
00:36:05TheSevenand you'd think doing it in an expressive way would be good
00:36:25TheSevenI've seen this in the STM32 stdlib, and I think also in CMSIS
00:37:36 Nick DrKK` is now known as DrKK_away (~DrKK@unaffiliated/drkk/x-3450090)
00:39:30kugelTheSeven: right, but it's really not the way to go in this case
00:40:08kugelbesides the undefined bitfield order, have a look at the code that gcc generates for bitfields (hint: it's really terrible)
00:41:35 Quit Zagor (Quit: Leaving)
00:43:01pamauryTheSeven: not yet
00:48:13 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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00:51:44 Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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01:20:30TheSevenkugel (for the logs): I tried to write that code in a way that avoids GCC's problems. modifying these if they're volatile will of course generate lots of useless code.
01:20:56TheSeventhat's why I typically copy them into a non-volatile temp variable when I do multiple operations
01:21:33TheSevenanyway, feel free to refactor things in whatever way you like, I'm just putting this here for now to get it to work at all
01:23:00TheSevendon't get me wrong, but I think other people can take care of cleaning this up. it's just more efficient if I move on to more hardware-specific things in the meantime, such as getting a non-emcore installation method to work
01:27:26[Saint]Good for you.
01:27:49[Saint](that sounded needlessly sarcastic)
01:33:21TheSevenwell, I'll happy to clean up after I get some other things working
01:33:42TheSevenbut having a complete solution that works at all is just more important to me at this point compared to having a partial but committable solution
01:34:21TheSevenI basically want to get this into a shape where others can pick it up and help first
01:34:59[Saint]The fact that you're doing ti at all seems to be going somewhat amiss.
01:35:05[Saint]So, thank you, TheSeven.
01:35:27TheSevenas we've seen during the last year, nobody is able or willing to do the lowlevel work of getting this to work once and for all
01:35:40[Saint]I'm not going to bicker about how its done, its a miracle it is happening at all.
01:35:47[Saint]So, indeed, thank you.
01:35:59TheSevenmy next step will be implementing an RB bootloader for the classic, with bootloader USB support
01:36:15TheSevenbecause that's another prerequisite for getting rid of emcore
01:36:39TheSevenonce that works, I'll look into the hardware side of a single-step DFU installation method without UMSboot
01:37:03TheSevenI hope that someone else will help with the PC side part of getting that DFU code into rbutil
01:37:20 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)
01:37:45TheSevenmy medium-term goal is to get a single-click installer for this going
01:37:48[Saint]bluebrother expressed some interest in this, and, I'm pretty sure no one knows rbutil like that man does.
01:38:00[Saint]re: rbutil integration
01:38:20TheSeven(and looking at the current #freemyipod-support situation, it seems like we need a single-click uninstaller as well, which grabs the required binaries from phobos)
01:38:49TheSevenoh, dualboot might be another thing to look into...
01:38:58[Saint]I would be tempted to tell those types to go fuck themselves.
01:39:10[Saint]Unintallation really, really, really is trivial.
01:39:31TheSevenwell given that recent itunes versions fail to restore classics we should probably do something about it
01:39:34[Saint]DFU Mode; Hey - iTunes, do this; Ok; done.
01:40:40[Saint]I'm not too sure that recent iTunes "failing" to restore these iPods exists at all, or if it is a case of people being in a fucked up state after a 'with iTunes' install method.
01:41:05TheSevenif I (or steffengy) have some spare time after sorting out the non-emcore installation stuff, we might even have a look into this thumbdrive/CD drive/burner emulation thing ;)
01:41:25[Saint]I restored a Classic in a Win 8 VM with latest iTunes a matter of days ago.
01:41:34TheSevenwell, we had several support cases where going back to 9.2.1 fixed it
01:41:42[Saint]Mind you, I know the state of the drivers therein.
01:41:56TheSevenit typically failed with some weird "device not supported" kind of messages after the WTF stage
01:42:20TheSevensimilar to a corrupted SYSCFG
01:42:27[Saint]It would be nice to know for sure that that isn't coming from drivers being in a weird state after installation attempts.
01:42:48[Saint]With some of these guys, they try so much before they come to us it is hard to know what state their host is in.
01:42:48TheSevenfeel free to do some tests then ;)
01:44:13[Saint]Push come to shove I doubt we'd have any real problem unless Apple decided for some reason to dissallow downgrading iTunes.
01:44:41[Saint](if we did indeed need to go with a specific iTunes version for whatever reason)
01:45:16[Saint]In thinking about it, it probably wouldn't be all too difficult to automate a no-iTunes restore method.
01:45:37TheSevenwell, given that once we have an installer it's somewhat trivial to build an uninstaller, which doesn't even require itunes to be installed in the first place, I think it might be worth doing
01:46:28TheSeventhe most tricky part is again handling all possible cases of installed DFU drivers, and installing one if none is present
01:56:58 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 31.0/20140610163407])
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02:19:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:05:29 Nick DrKK_away is now known as DrKK` (~DrKK@unaffiliated/drkk/x-3450090)
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04:19:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:00:07ZagorFYI: I'm going to stop gerrit a while to upgrade it
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12:15:41Zagorgerrit is up again
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12:50:07fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 6c106a7, 253 builds, 32 clients.
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12:57:21fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision f8785c8, 253 builds, 32 clients.
13:00:30fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 189 seconds.
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13:27:05wodzyeah, samsung yp-cp3 IS reference design :-)
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13:32:36relai would like a rockbox version with easy interface
13:32:45relamore like the original firmware
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13:35:50copper<Chandler>And I want a million dollars!</Chandler>
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13:41:05 Quit Zagor (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
13:42:48[Saint]rela: If you want something like the original firmware, use the original firmware.
13:43:16[Saint]Rockbox is not designed to be intuitive, or easy to use, nor is it aimed at casual users per se.
13:43:35[Saint]It is designed by a bunch of engineers, and the UI reflects this.
13:44:54[Saint]The default configuration should be sufficient for most users.
13:45:31[Saint]Long story short - if you don't know what a configuration option is, or does, you probably don't need to be configuring it. But if you would like to learn, we have a fine manual.
13:48:14[Saint]If you would like to remove temptation from yourself, you can remove most of the options from the main menu - the manual can explain how.
13:48:43[Saint]There is no way to modify the nested submenus, however.
13:49:09[Saint]So "Settings" is always going to be a labyrinthine trap.
13:49:13relayes, i have seen that
13:49:38relabut for me its always intersting to see that great programmers often are not able to build a barely good UI
13:50:21[Saint]Part of that boils down to the fact that, realistically, its a DAP - how much time do you spend configuring it?
13:50:42[Saint]99% of the time the LCD is off and its away in a pocket, happily playing audio, not giving a fuck how complex its UI is.
13:51:18[Saint]Every one of the functions you might want to access quickly are accessible with a single key press.
13:52:02relayes, that is the thing. i would improve excactly this first
13:52:42relabut maybe its just me. i dont really mind as i figured that the original firmware (that i have never used before) suites my needs better for whatever reason
13:52:49[Saint]And, how exactly, would you do this?
13:52:56[Saint]WHat is "better"?
13:53:17relafor example: i only need 2 options on the root: files and options
13:53:47relayes, i know that you can remove most options from rockbox, but i didnt want to fiddle about with it too much
13:53:57relafiles should (none does that) lead directly to my sd card
13:54:39[Saint]you can do this yourself.
13:54:49[Saint]setting that as a default option, IMO, would be somewhat silly.
13:55:00[Saint]go on.
13:55:43relayes, thats true. but it was not described in a easy way how to do stuff, i guess because its rarely used
13:55:55[Saint]I'm curious. You're not the sacrificial lamb. I'm genuinely curious. People often say what a shit job was done on the UI, but rarely have any meaningful suggestions on improvements.
13:56:50relawell.. given the small displays on most players i think that the idea of displaying only one option not a list suites better
13:57:14relaits what NOKIA did with the old nokia phones which have been known for great UI
13:57:28[Saint]what about:
13:57:34[Saint]"Start File Browser Here.
13:57:34[Saint]This option allows users to set the currently selected directory as the default start directory for the file browser. This option is not available for files."
13:57:40[Saint]is difficult to parse?
13:57:45[Saint](serious question)
13:58:41[Saint]So far each of the "make it better" suggestions could be defeated by reading the manual.
13:59:12relasorry for wasting your/my time
13:59:48[Saint]Its fine. I'm always open to hear opinions on how this could be done better.
14:00:18[Saint]But we also need to ensure that we provide sane defaults for the target audience.
14:02:50[Saint]If there are portions of the manual that could be rewritten to make discovery of features easier, we'd all love to hear it.
14:02:56[Saint]Writing docs sucks.
14:06:19reladoing that would mean to understand stuff first
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16:27:59wodzScreen and buttons work on yp-cp3. Now time to hack the codec
16:45:49lebelliumoh something going on on CP3? Nice :P
16:47:06pamaurylebellium: yeah we are hacking on it at DevCon ^^
16:48:44lebelliumah yes, I forgot you are at DevCon. Nice that it finally happened
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18:15:45infernogottHi, I've got a problem with my Sansa Clip+. I'm on Windows 7 (64-Bit). My Player is only recognized as an unknown device (with MTP or MSC). I tried different usb cables, usb slots, everything I found with google. nothing helped. I also tried it on my netbook with Windows XP, same result. I uninstalled Rockbox before, but still have the bootloader. Thankfully I still can get the normal sansa firmware to start.
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18:44:59bertrikmaybe, in the spirit of devcon, I can finally do something I've been talking about (but not doing): experiment with using interrupts for radio, possibly making tuning and frequency scanning much faster
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18:57:20bertrikor maybe, I can add support for the olimex-A10-lime board as a build client, it does already build, it's just not recognised as a valid cpu
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20:13:22bertrikhm, I forgot that we already do the tuner interrupt thing for RDS, so the 'tuning_done' and 'rds_received' events need to play nice with each other
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20:26:45bertrikand I wonder now if the current solution for RDS is really the simplest and most elegant
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