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#rockbox log for 2014-06-20

00:01:01 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:02:26 Quit bertrik (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:11:50*TheSeven just freed up >800MB of disk space by deduplicating the build client's ccache
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00:36:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:34:28*[Saint] tries his hand at compiling/configuring the TNT toolchain
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09:06:16DasXardasHi, please is there any developer? :)
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09:31:20saratoga_DasXardas: its the middle of the night, if you have a question just ask and check the logs later
09:32:33copperit's morning in the EU :)
09:36:57DasXardasI'm form Czech Republic I've 9:30 AM :D So my question. Is any chance to build RockBox for Cowon X7? :) I've this FW on my X5l and I was great, but now I have X7 and but with stock FW :( Thank you very much.
09:50:22 Quit saratoga_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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10:27:00DasXardasI can't found any indormations about X7 :( It'was released 2011 so hadrware components should be availaible :(
10:31:06 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@
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10:35:19[Saint]Well, this is the way these things are done.
10:35:38[Saint]If you hjave the device, and want the port done, you're the ebst person for the job.
10:35:54[Saint](gah - can't type today)
10:36:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:50:17DasXardasI have this device. :) Memory CPU: FLASH: necht chips I can't read :(
10:52:15DasXardasBut I can't to do new build because a haven't any knowledges about it :( Maybe these informations help developers, :(
10:53:00sLiteif you don't have serious electronics skills and embedded programming, or know somebody who has and is willing to spend some months of his free time
10:53:00[Saint]Well, if you're not prepared to put any effort into it, why should anyone else?
10:53:14sLiteyou are better of getting a already supported device and selling your X7
10:54:11[Saint]Yeah, its a bit of a POS>
10:54:21sLitea new port won't be done in few days
10:54:51[Saint]As the page I link to mentions, its is many hundreds of man hours work.
10:55:29sLitein other words: there won't be a port anytime soon
10:56:19[Saint]And that would be if someone decided to pick it up right now, but AFAIK no one has the hardware.
10:57:07 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
10:59:33[Saint]Pretty much, developers work on what they want to work on, when they want to work on it, because it interests them and benefits them personally.
11:00:53[Saint]And every one of the new ports has happened because someone wanted Rockbox on an unsupported device and was prepared to put in the work to make it happen.
11:02:02pamaurysLite: it mostly depends on the hardware
11:02:06[Saint]It would be extremely likely that you could get support along the way, but you would have to expect to be doing most of the work yourself.
11:02:43 Join bcobco [0] (~bcobco@
11:02:43sLitepamaury: of course
11:03:25pamaurysLite: and also the price of the hardware, for example I don't mind trying a port on a 50€ player but if it's 200€ I might think twice ^^
11:03:44[Saint]Right. :)
11:04:35sLitedon't like bricking expensive stuff? ;)
11:05:27sLitethats the good thing about the ipods
11:05:37sLitethere are so many out there
11:05:39pamauryfrom what I know, it cannot be bricked (it has usb recovery mode) and we have the datasheet for the cpu/soc but it uses raw NAND which is pain to work with
11:05:47sLitesooner or later any gen will be supported
11:06:23[Saint]The good thing about the ipods < iPod Nano2G is that they are qwuite literally unbrickable.
11:06:46[Saint]The Nano2G is technically unbrickable as well, but it involves opening the device and shorting a pinset.
11:07:32[Saint]And the older iPods are "very, very, very hard" to brick.
11:07:54sLitedon't know anything about the technical side, but from a rockbox users standpoint, i'm very happy with my 5.5g 120gb ipod
11:08:01[Saint]For all of them, it takes a considerable amount of effort to brick them, you'd need to be actually trying to.
11:08:14 Join Rower [0] (
11:08:45[Saint]And, yes. My 5.5G w/ 256GB SSD is my 'lil buddy.
11:08:53DasXardasIt's a pitty i haven't requied knowledges :( about programming etc.. :( So thaks for informations :
11:09:15[Saint]DasXardas: remember that the people who have this knowledge weren't born with it.
11:09:19sLitessd, i haven't even thought about that yet :D
11:09:23[Saint]They learned it, and you can too. :)
11:09:34sLiteare there any compatiblity issues with ssds?
11:09:54[Saint]Just need to make sure its 3.3V
11:10:07sLitei remember some 120gb disks they might not work
11:10:30[Saint]nah, the capacity doesn't matter - at least not for Rockbox.
11:10:38[Saint]I have removed the OF, so, I dunno there.
11:10:43copperthere are problems with emCORE on the Classic
11:10:46copperwith SSDs
11:11:02sLitewell i guess the 5.5g will have some limitations on disk size
11:11:25[Saint]I don't _think_ the Apple FW cares.
11:11:29pamaurysLite: if you feel like disassembling your X7 and post high quality photos I could tell you how hard would likely be
11:11:32[Saint]And Rockbox doesn't.
11:11:49sLitepamaury: i dont own an x7, DasXardas does
11:12:32sLitei think crossing some TB boudaries might get you out of luck with the diskcontroller, wouldn't it? :>
11:12:58sLitelike with some external disk cases
11:13:09sLiteor old sata controllers/bioses
11:13:26sLite(on pc)
11:14:04DasXardasIt can't be problem because I have it now dissassbled, because my battery is died, so if I catch good camera, so I post photos in HD
11:15:40[Saint]sLite: you can do some crazy things with adapter plates with the iPods Video. Like 40 pin ZIF <-> 1.8" CF <-> CF<-> SD <-> SD <-> uSD
11:16:00[Saint]Then you can have a reasonable cheap, fast as fuck, solid state iPod.
11:16:09[Saint]up to 128GB
11:16:20copperwhy microsd
11:16:30sLitebecause you can!
11:17:11[Saint]I added the SD <-> uSD just to increase the adapter silliness.
11:17:26gevaertssLite: you can go up to 2^31 sectors, I suspect
11:17:35gevaertsAs in, 512 byte sectors
11:17:46gevaertsSo 2^40 bytes
11:17:46[Saint]Or, "a metric shittonne"
11:17:52sLiteguess i will look into an ssd if my 120gb ever decides to break
11:17:59copperI prefer the imperial fuckton
11:18:13gevaertsa.k.a. Hmmm
11:18:28gevaertsThat's *close* :)
11:18:34DasXardasSSD drives are too expensive for use into player. Price of 128GB SSD is about 250 dollars :D
11:18:59[Saint]Says the guy that bought an overpriced Cown.
11:19:01copper~$130 for a 128 GB SD card
11:19:03gevaerts[Saint]: 2^31 sectors is 1TB :)
11:19:18*[Saint] is aware
11:19:37[Saint]For a DAP, I think that qualifies as a "shittonne"
11:19:48copperflac tonne
11:19:53gevaertsIt's only twice as much as some people are using today
11:20:02gevaertsI'm not sure if 4K sectors make the limit go up
11:20:05[Saint]Not if you use speex!
11:20:33[Saint]You could fit all the music in the world, ever, on a 1TB drive then.
11:20:49copper[citation needed]
11:20:57[Saint]I just checked.
11:21:00DasXardasIf I have 160GB hdd so a would have 256GB SSD / SD :D
11:21:05sLiteDasXardas: there are much cheaper ssds
11:21:46pamauryDasXardas: thanks ^^ The interesting part is to be able to see all the chips, I already those exists: TCC79xx, H55S1G... and K9.... but there are others which I can't read on photos I found on the web
11:21:49sLiteyou get 256gb for like 90 euros
11:21:55pamaury*already know
11:22:26coppersLite: we're talking 1.8" drives and possibly mSATA
11:22:46coppernot mass market 2.5"
11:22:48sLiteoh yes, i forgot about that detail :D
11:22:49[Saint]yeah, mSATA SSDs are really not cheap still.
11:22:59[Saint]I got very lucky, and a 128GB one fell into my lap.
11:23:00sLiteits ages when i switched the disk on mine
11:23:07[Saint]The 256GB one was *not* cheap.
11:24:33DasXardasMaybe I buy mSATA SSD 250GB and reduction for 1,8" Zif connector :D maybe if works :D I hope :D
11:27:56[Saint]I also have an iPod Color with a 64GB CF card, an 1100mAh battery (usually 400mAh), and an internal BT transmitter.
11:28:27[Saint]That's my baby, but I don't take her out much, because she's getting a bit dodgy in the clickwheel region.
11:29:22DasXardasI have CF card in my Cowon X5l :D Great solution. Better than HDD
11:29:38[Saint]Light, durable, fast, shock proof.
11:30:12DasXardasTruth, sorry I must go for a while.
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11:41:53TheSeven[Saint]: ipods older than nano2g aren't unbrickable at all. we just typically don't mess with their boot flash
11:42:51[Saint]I thought it was *always* recoverable?
11:43:00[Saint]Not trivially, but, recoverable.
11:44:27TheSevensLite: I think up to 2TB of SSD storage should just work, up to 16TB on classic, and very likely much more from a storage controller point of view, it's just fat32 that might have problems with sector numbers > 32 bits
11:45:06copperneeds moar exFAT
11:45:13[Saint]Its possible.
11:45:20[Saint]Someone just needs to do it.
11:45:30[Saint]Its one of those Mr. Someone tasks.
11:45:42copperwhere can I join this Mr. Someone? :D
11:46:01sLitewouldnt it be possible to throw out FAT completely?
11:46:34[Saint]Of course.
11:46:37copperthat would break compatibility with original firmwares
11:46:53sLitei wouldn't care :D
11:47:15[Saint]Right, to keep the OF happy, one might need to provide it with its own partition or disk image file.
11:47:35TheSevenand no, I don't think that you can recover a bad nor flash on a pp ipod...
11:48:10[Saint]With the iPods, it would be easy, if you didn't care about the OF, to just remove it and not care about FS incompatibility.
11:48:57[Saint]I remove the OF on my iPods and just move Rockbox to the OSOS anyway.
11:49:01[Saint]So, I wouldn;t care either.
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11:49:31[Saint](Rockbox boots so fucking fast with Rockbox in OSOS and an SSD on an iPod Video)
11:49:37[Saint]Like, ~2s.
11:49:38sLitewell, i don't think i will ever upgrade my ipod to a disksize that needs me to move away from FAT anyway ^^
11:50:10TheSevenwho knows what kind of ssds we'll have in a few years
11:50:15[Saint]sLite: if you don't use the OF - have you tried removing it completely?
11:50:24[Saint](was it you I helped with that the other day?)
11:50:38sLitei haven't poked around with it
11:50:46*TheSeven just bought a 512GB SSD for ~165€ (incl. 19% VAT)
11:50:52[Saint]With the Video, you get significant boot speed improvement w/ a spinning disk.
11:51:07sLitei just installed rockbox some years ago and never cared about the original FW anymore
11:51:34[Saint]Specifically "4) OSOS contains only Rockbox"
11:52:09sLitetheres a lot of nano references
11:52:23sLiteis this also valid for the 5.5g?
11:52:39sLitei'll take a look at the weekend
11:52:43[Saint]It mentions the Nano2G a fair bit because things are done slightly differently there.
11:52:50sLiteboot speed improvements sounds nice :)
11:53:04[Saint]The Nano2G is basically doing that with the default install anyway.
11:53:10[Saint]And, yeah.
11:53:28[Saint]With a spinning disk, you can get about a 3~4s improvement on boot time.
11:54:28sLitethx for the hint ^^
11:54:45*TheSeven wonders why other people's non-emcore'd nanos boot so fast
11:55:03TheSeventhe OF bootloader takes like 5-10 seconds to mount the FTL on mine
11:57:34TheSevensure, the 8GB model will take longer to mount than the smaller ones
11:58:02TheSevenbut other people are reporting shorter boot times on 8 GB ones as well...
12:06:34[Saint]I haven't used the OF on any of the Classics I own, that still work.
12:06:49[Saint]I booted the OF and played with it for about half an hour on the first Classic I ever got.
12:06:53[Saint]That's about it.
12:07:01[Saint]All others have been Rockboxed immediately.
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13:12:07dongscopper: what
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15:03:28 Join Clem29 [0] (4f24aa45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
15:04:56Clem29hi guys, I've a problem with my Sansa Clip Zip.
15:04:58 Quit Scall (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
15:08:12Clem29I think it is died. i tried to soft reset it, i've also tried to wait a pair of days to make it fully discharge and then i charged it for a day, but nothing works. In addicition when I plugged out the player from the charger it was really hot. Can anyone help me?
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16:16:21sLiteis the info on the wiki about nano 3g still valid (no port available)?
16:22:07sLitelooks like it :>
16:36:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:45:31dongsisnt nano 3g like a decade old by now
16:45:35dongsthrow it away
16:47:03gevaertsdongs: that sort of suggestion doesn't help anyone
16:49:09dongsgevaerts: you wanna bet? decade old tech is: (obvioulsy) old, battery is likely shot, uses way too much power, has ancient/boring parts inside, crap storage capacity etc, might be unsafe due to old battery, in general, its a complete waste of time to try doing something with it.
16:49:44dongseffort spent trying to make it do something its not intended to do will likely end up costing more (in time) than buying something new that works.
16:50:02 Quit fragilematter (Quit: Leaving.)
16:50:07dongsjust sayin.
16:50:55dongsanyone wondering if rockbox can run on ??? there's a reason for that.
16:50:56gevaertsdongs: people are happily using older ipods every day
16:51:19dongsgevaerts: i dont even have ipod and I dont listen to portable music.
16:51:32gevaertsAnd the reason rockbox doesn't run on the shuffle is *very* different from the reason it doesn't run on the nano 3g
16:51:58dongsand what would that be
16:53:48gevaertsThe shuffle is a much more restricted thing
16:55:07gevaertsIt's based on a chip that's not very suitable for something like rockbox
17:04:54 Quit Clem29 (Quit: Page closed)
17:05:38 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
17:11:28sLitemost of the hardware rockbox runs on is quite old isn't it? :>
17:19:49dongscuz portable music players are largely irrelevant now anyway.
17:22:02sLitewell, personal preference i would say
17:22:41sLitei haven't seen anything that could replace my rockboxed ipod so far
17:23:55sLiteif you're refering to smartphones, that doesnt make portable music players irrelevant at all
17:24:18 Quit mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria
17:24:38sLite(for me, and i guess for a lot of other people too)
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18:48:16pamauryJdGordon: I encountered a skin engine crash when reset the rockbox configuration while playing a file with the non-default theme. Here is the calltrace: do_menu -> settings_apply_skins -> skin_backdrop_load_setting -> core_alloc_ex -> buflib_alloc_ex -> buflib_shrink -> audio_codec_update_elapsed, I hope it helps
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20:06:24saratogai made a figure for the manual:
20:06:30saratogawhats the best format to use? png ok?
20:07:41gevaertsI'd say so
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20:12:02saratogaplotting the transfer functions for our EQ, they actually work slightly differently than I thought
20:12:16saratogai thought Q=1 would be a band as wide as its center frequency
20:13:23saratogabut its actually more like Q=1 is ~ 2/3s as wide as the center frequency
20:13:57saratogathe notes say "Q (the EE kind of definition, except for peakingEQ in which A*Q is the classic EE Q. That adjustment in definition was made so that a boost of N dB followed by a cut of N dB for identical Q and f0/Fs results in a precisely flat unity gain filter or "wire".)"
20:15:47saratogawhere A is the gain, so I guess the width changes a little if the gain changes??
20:15:54saratogai must be missing something
20:16:14gevaertsIf you don't know, most of us don't stand a chance :)
20:16:37saratogawell, i'm sure preglow knows
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20:25:18saratogais it ok to use the \screenshot{} latex command for general images?
20:27:32saratogaah no its not
20:27:33saratogaok got it
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20:36:03amiconnTheSeven: Apparently it helps to stabilize the client's tunnel connection :) In the 15:38 round this client even did the most builds...
20:36:19saratogahmm apparently my git commands did not do what i expected
20:37:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:37:18saratogacan someone fix b66fe78? i have no idea whats going on
20:41:38amiconnfix how?
20:42:20saratogamaybe that did it?
20:43:18saratogaok i think i did it
20:43:34saratogai didn't even realize the latex build system duplicated the manual tree when compiling
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20:51:54amiconnHmm, the build system doesn't seem to work 100% correct
20:53:05amiconnThere are occasional missing builds (often Samsung YP-R0 and YP-R1), and even if there are not, the master seems to be unable to properly add up build counts
20:54:09amiconnThe last build client stats all start with "For these 253 builds, the following XX build clients participated:" The XX varies, the "253" doesn't
20:54:48amiconnHowever, when adding up the "builds" column, there are 251 builds when the Samsuns are not missing, and 249 builds when they are
20:55:04amiconnZagor? Bagder?
20:57:00amiconnAlso, the tooltip on a build in the coloured table always says "Built by.... in 0 secs"
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22:37:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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