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#rockbox log for 2014-07-26

00:39:07 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
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03:16:17 Join TD-Linux [0] (~Thomas@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux)
03:16:31TD-Linuxhello, I have a sansa clip+ that had rockbox firmware on it previously
03:16:46TD-Linuxit appears as a block device but I can't seem to read anything off it
03:17:06TD-Linuxthe sansa firmware tells me that there is 90MB of space left and can't get past refreshing media
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03:21:58TD-Linuxanything to do before I try unbricking?
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05:12:05 Join Raptors [0] (
05:12:24Raptorspreglow, I think you're the fuze+ dev right?
05:12:36RaptorsI'm kind of stuck
05:12:56RaptorsMy battery is too low to boot so I can't get it to boot to the OS
05:13:10Raptorswhen I plug it in, it goes to usb mode which doesn't seem to charge
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05:49:45[Saint]Raptors: AFAIK, it _should_ charge over USB/bootloader USB
05:50:11[Saint]If it is deep discharged, it may take a while to register a charge.
05:50:18Raptors[Saint], it doesn't. I figured it out through google though. You have to press down while it's powering up
05:50:27Raptorsand it goes to original firmware charging
05:50:45Raptorsso plug it in and press volume down really fast
05:50:53Raptorsit wont work if you try to charge it through comp
05:51:00Raptorsyou need a power plug
05:51:11[Saint] can definitely charge over USB in Rockbox, I thought it could via bootloader USB too...hmmm.
05:52:17[Saint]Blindly reading the config tells me this should work.
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09:40:25copper[Saint]: yes it can
09:40:29copperbootloader v2 though
09:41:07copperor whatever is the last version
09:44:06copperit even displays it's charging status
09:44:17copperbut I definitely had to update the bootloader
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11:26:08 Join piknockyou [0] (4d149e31@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
11:28:35piknockyouhi there, does rockbox delete the default operating system of the clip+?
11:42:48copperand you can dual boot, check the manual
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12:00:37piknockyouI formatted my 64 gb microsdxc for clip+ to FAT32, Sandisk OS recognizes it which is good, but I read it limits of around 8,000 songs, does anyone know if this really means songs or any data? le't say cover art count in, do you think so?
12:01:59piknockyouand do they mean just the database? if yes, I wouldn't care since I am only using folder navigation
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12:26:55piknockyouHi there, what does the limit really of the sandisk OS stand for? Is it like songs in the library? any single piece of data in the library? I was wondering, because I wouldn't care about library limits since I am using folder navigation. Would the clip+ also limt the "titles" in the folder navigation? Why should it? Thanks.
12:31:36copperpiknockyou: why are you asking in #rockbox about a firmware that Rockbox is designed to replace?
12:31:47copperask on the Sansa forums
12:34:30piknockyoucause I can't get rockbox installed. may I ask you to help me? It says no mountpoint given.
12:34:46piknockyouBut it is mounted clearly as a device.
12:35:28piknockyouAnd when I press auto-detect, Rockbox fails, doesn't work anymore and needs to be closed.
12:36:42piknockyouIf I open rockbox, it says "Your configuration is invalid. This is most likely due to a change of device path. ..."
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12:54:53piknockyoui try manually, where do I get this stuff "Create a folder called “rbinstall” on your desktop, and then extract the OF, the bootloader and mkamsboot into it."
13:05:59copperpiknockyou: click on the Change button
13:06:15copperthere, you can manually set boht the device, and the mount point
13:06:31copperthere, click on "Refresh" if need be
13:06:49copperall the while, making sure your Clip+ is actually mounted where you think it's mounted
13:07:14copperalso, note that the Clip+ presents TWO drives: one for the Clip+ itself, and another one for the sd card reader
13:09:05piknockyoustay with me, please. doesn't work.
13:09:24piknockyouI chose the device but there is no mount point, the line is empty white.
13:09:32piknockyoui can not chose a mount point at all.
13:09:49piknockyouno change by refreshing.
13:10:22piknockyouno mountpoint given.
13:10:32coppercan you upload a screenshot please?
13:10:57piknockyoudou you want teamviewer?
13:12:54piknockyoucontrolling my computer
13:13:25piknockyouokay, what screenshot do you exactly need?
13:13:44[Saint]copper: aha! thankyou.
13:13:59copperI can't change the mountpoint in the RB utility either
13:14:09[Saint]I didn't think to look at the past history of changes, I just looked at the code and saw that it /should/ work.
13:14:11copperit's stuck on '/media/clip' no matter what I do
13:14:22[Saint]I don't actually have the hardware laying around.
13:15:10copper"Select your device in the filesystem" is a dropdown menu containing only that one entry, and it cannot be edited
13:15:52[Saint]Is the device in MSC or MTP mode?
13:16:03[Saint]IIUC, autodetect failing here implies the former.
13:16:47copperpiknockyou: click on the dropdown meny
13:17:20piknockyouwhat is the dropdown menu?
13:17:43copperthe bar to the left of the refresh button
13:17:45piknockyouopkay, and then?
13:18:00copperwhat does it display?
13:18:07piknockyouit is empty
13:18:18piknockyoubut you can see on the screenshot there is a device mounted
13:18:27copperboot the original firmware and set the Clip+ to MSC
13:18:35piknockyou[13:09] <piknockyou> I chose the device but there is no mount point, the line is empty white.
13:19:32piknockyouhow to do this? where to do this?
13:19:44piknockyouyou mean taking the device and starting it up?
13:20:42piknockyouand thenI am at it
13:21:00piknockyougot it
13:21:11piknockyou"working on it"
13:21:35*[Saint] notes that the manual covers this
13:21:50[Saint]"2.1. Before Starting"
13:24:20copper(my problem was that nothing was mounted on my system)
13:24:21piknockyou you are right, sorry about that, I have overseen that, but I am actually using the manual. :-/
13:24:35piknockyouwhat is the most detailed theme in terms of ?
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13:25:25coppersee for yourself
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13:28:34piknockyouthank you so much so far
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15:47:01fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 6bbfb35, 253 builds, 28 clients.
15:53:09fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 369 seconds.
15:54:06b0hoonpamaury: any news about the Sansa View?
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16:12:07pamauryb0hoon: not really, I have been very very busy recently, but I'll throw some work at it today and tomorrow
16:13:25b0hoonpamaury: that's great.
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17:52:22HeadWhackerHi, I have Rockbox completely running on iBasso DX90. Using the same sources from DX50
17:52:52HeadWhackerNow there is a small problem
17:54:38HeadWhackerWhen quickly skipping tracks by pressing the fwd or prev button, there is a soft cracling noise at at the beginning of the track that last between 2 to 5 seconds
17:55:48HeadWhackerit's quite random and if I hear the noise on a track I just rewind to the beginning and the noise is not there
17:56:21HeadWhackeranyone has any idea where this noise is coming from?
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19:36:33ulmutulb0hoon: ping
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20:06:29 Join b0hoon [0] (
20:06:51b0hoonulmutul: pong
20:08:06ulmutulI've tested the latest battery monitoring patch. The results are here:,Vt0Tera#1
20:09:09b0hoonulmutul: so?
20:09:17ulmutulStrange to say that the voltages of the two devices are quiet different.
20:12:08b0hoonulmutul: ah, ok - two pictures
20:12:59 Quit RiD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.)
20:13:04ulmutulThe old ones are here: and
20:13:15b0hoonulmutul: maybe just different baterriesin different stages of wear
20:14:26 Join saratoga [0] (123e1c18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
20:14:48b0hoonulmutul: i don't have an idea, OF has one way of calculate the level
20:15:05saratogakugel: (for the logs) this might be interesting to you;topicseen#msg228993
20:15:46ulmutulAnd the voltage code hasn't changed since the last test. So maybe different loading state or temperature or something.
20:17:28b0hoonulmutul: aaa, one thing i didn't change the values for charging so the chart maybe be like this
20:18:09ulmutulAll battery benches are made discharging.
20:18:54b0hoonulmutul: right, i don't know then
20:19:24ulmutulCharging values are problematic anyway, because full voltage is reached very early.
20:19:58b0hoonyes, it's for all Portal Player based players
20:20:23b0hoonwell, i would like to commit this patch anyway
20:20:48b0hoonand work on The mystery of RTC for YH820
20:21:50ulmutulYes, definitively.
20:22:39ulmutulI think I'll go in for the keymaps.
20:22:45b0hoonulmutul: can you make some pictures of the mainboard for v2.0? as close as possible?
20:23:30ulmutulYes, already made some :) I thought about uploading them to the wiki.
20:23:41b0hoonulmutul: i see that for version 1.7 CLKOE is connected somwhere
20:23:50b0hoonof RTC
20:24:02b0hoonand on the schematic is not
20:25:35 Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
20:30:43ulmutulb0hoon: here's the interesting part:
20:33:15b0hoonconnected too, looks the same :S
20:34:10b0hoonit will be hard to find the bug...
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20:39:02b0hoonulmutul: anyway, thanks if you could add the pictures on the Wiki it would be great.
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20:54:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:17:32 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
21:20:38TheSevenhow does the USB/charging detection code work these days?
21:20:42TheSevenIIRC the samsung ipods are using some deprecated way of handling that
21:20:49TheSevenand as I need to change some of that code anyway, I'd rather do it right from the beginning
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21:26:14gevaertsTheSeven: IIRC basically you want to define USB_DETECT_BY_REQUEST
21:26:47gevaertsAnd I have *no* idea why it was problematic on the new ipods
21:27:02TheSevenwhat does that change?
21:27:56gevaertsIt sets "host present" when an actual USB transfer has been seen (i.e. the first get_descriptor usually) instead of when an insert is detected
21:28:43TheSevenso this is something that shouldn't require any further changes...
21:29:10gevaertsWith any luck :)
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21:29:35TheSevenwhat exactly are the consequences of "host present" being set? IIUC that should only affect charging, mass storage, etc., but not the lowlevel USB driver?
21:29:51TheSevenare we doing anything fancy such as re-enumerating with a different set of descriptor based on what we have seen?
21:30:08gevaertsIt will change the exact time when usb_core_enable_driver() is called, which might expose bugs I guess
21:30:33TheSevenwhat does that function do?
21:30:47TheSevendoes it call any usb_drv_*?
21:31:02*gevaerts checks
21:32:04TheSevenI've found this weird thing in the s3c6400x driver:
21:32:04TheSevenvoid usb_attach(void) { usb_enable(true); // s5l only ? /* Nothing to do */ }
21:32:17TheSevenand I have no idea why it's there, usb_enable doesn't seem to do anything useful
21:32:29TheSevenmaybe that might be related somehow?
21:32:44gevaertsLooking at the code, I don't think usb_drv_* will see anything different
21:32:48*gevaerts checks the usb_enable thing
21:32:53TheSevenanyway, I'll revisit that with the new USB driver
21:33:39TheSevenis it a known issue that rapid reconnections of the USB port will crash with various kinds of errors? (OOM panics, hangs, ...)?
21:37:03gevaertsI don't remember specific issues, but I wouldn't be surprised
21:40:44TheSevenwe have a slightly tricky situation on the classic with charging state detection...
21:40:44TheSevenas far as I know, we have these GPIOs:
21:40:44TheSevenb4: IN not charging (no external power or fully charged)
21:40:44DBUGEnqueued KICK TheSeven
21:40:44TheSevenb5: IN discharging (can go high during disk activity even with external power present)
21:40:44TheSevenb6: OUT enable fast charging (500mA instead of 100mA)
21:40:45***Alert Mode level 1
21:40:45TheSevenb7: OUT disable charging altogether
21:40:48TheSevenc3: USB Vbus present
21:40:50TheSevenwhen I say "external power" above, I mean "at least one of USB or firewire"
21:40:52TheSeventhere are also separate GPIOs for "USB power present" and "firewire power present" in the PMU, but we can't access those safely from IRQ mode (e.g. tick tasks) due to the I2C mutex
21:41:32TheSevenour rather cautious handling of GPIO b6 currently breaks firewire charging
21:42:47TheSevendo you think it's adequate to assert POWER_INPUT_MAIN_CHARGER for both USB and firewire (USB is kind of the main charging method), or should I use the dedicated USB power state for that?
21:43:18TheSevenand how should situations where external power is present but the battery is discharging regardless be handled?
21:43:40TheSevento make matters even worse, I think charging and discharging can both be true at the same time
21:44:07TheSeven(charging is more of a "wants to charge, and has external power, but current limiting might not actually allow charging")
21:44:07CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:44:07*gevaerts isn't sure
21:44:22gevaertsI've never done actual charging code...
21:46:18TheSevenwho did rework charging a while ago? was that Torne?
21:46:32gevaertsI think
21:50:46***Alert Mode OFF
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22:19:39ulmutulHello, can somebody give me write permission for the wiki? My username is "SebastianLeonhardt"
22:22:40 Join franklin [0] (47474769@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
22:25:18franklinDoes adding password protection to DAPs go against open-source priniciples? Is there a need/demand for it?
22:26:58gevaertsfranklin: why would that go against open source principles?
22:27:47franklingevaerts: I have suggested a lock-out feature here:,48411.0.html
22:27:52gevaertsulmutul: if I didn't do anything wrong, you should have write access now
22:28:02ulmutulThank you!
22:29:50gevaertsfranklin: for the record, my laptop runs entirely on open source software, and it asks me for a password before I can do anything with it :)
22:29:59franklingevaerts: is a lock-out feature wrong? I imagine many people would forget the password and brick their players without saving the unlock key to their computers first.
22:30:26franklingevaerts: is an iOS-like lock-out feature wrong, I mean
22:30:35gevaertsThe user would control this
22:31:09gevaertsSo I don't see any philosophical issue with this
22:31:35franklingevaerts: I just feel bad writing this code. I'm just not sure why. Maybe it smells to much like Apple
22:31:59gevaertsApple didn't invent security
22:32:27franklingevaerts: do you understand their passcode lock feature?
22:32:27gevaertsStill, this sort of thing means disabling dualboot and recovery modes
22:32:36franklingevaerts: that's why
22:32:53*gevaerts is confused
22:32:57gevaertsthat's why what?
22:33:09franklingevaerts: this sort of thing means disabling dualboot and recovery modes
22:33:59gevaertsThe possible problem with disabling all of that is that you basically have no means of recovery left if things go wrong
22:34:10gevaertsAnd things *do* go wrong
22:34:28franklingevaerts: and it would be very hard without bricking a player or two :D
22:34:58gevaertsNot really. You don't disable dualboot until you get everything else working
22:35:37gevaertsBut then of course I'd just grab your device and take the hard drive out to see what's on there :)
22:35:57franklingevaerts: but for targets with separate bootloaders (ipod6g), it could be bypassed easily by wiping the HDD from emCORE
22:36:13gevaertsWhen would you wipe?
22:36:25franklinTo reset the password lock
22:36:58gevaertsYes, but I'd just take the disk out and use some usb/ata adapter to read it. I wouldn't reset the lock
22:38:08TheSevenfranklin: what are you trying to achieve in the first place?
22:38:13TheSevendata security? theft prevention?
22:38:22franklinTheSeven: theft prevention
22:38:36TheSevenso you need to make it unrecoverable
22:38:45gevaertsWell, not really
22:38:58franklingevaerts: the reason iOS passcode is so secure is that you *CAN'T* reset it, no matter what you do. In other words, it's a walled garden, completely against open-source principles
22:39:02gevaertsBy the time the thief sees he has an unusable device, you've lost the device anyway
22:39:10ulmutulgevaerts: Hm, I can't edit and I don't find myself in the WikiUsersGroup ...
22:39:27gevaertsfranklin: security is *not* against open source principles *at all*
22:39:38franklingevaerts: but making walled gardens is
22:40:00gevaertsfranklin: yes, how is a walled garden involved in this discussion?
22:40:34franklingevaerts: to achieve security, it must be impossible or very hard to access the filesystem while waiting for a password
22:41:01franklingevaerts: just smells bad to me
22:41:32gevaertsfranklin: please tell me your email account details
22:41:42gevaertsIf you don't, that must mean you're against open source
22:41:49gevaertsOr isn't that what you're saying?
22:42:18gevaertsulmutul: that's weird. As far as I can see, you're on there
22:42:45ulmutulHm, ok, I'll try again.
22:43:28ulmutulOK, it works now, thanks.
22:43:35gevaertsGood :)
22:43:36*TheSeven probably just fixed it
22:44:32TheSevenfor some reason it looks like the contents of the page is getting ignored these days
22:45:20TheSevengevaerts: just to confirm, you just edited him into the WikiUsersGroup page's text content, right?
22:45:38TheSeventhat doesn't seem to be in sync with the actual group at all
22:45:41franklingevaerts: what email?
22:45:59TheSeventhe actual group is listed below, and there's an "administration" section at the very bottom of the page
22:46:10gevaertsfranklin: you mean you don't want to give me your email password?
22:46:25gevaertsWhy not?
22:46:28TheSevenadding him using that seems to have worked, despite just showing a page with the text "Attention" and nothing else...
22:46:32TheSeventhis wiki is just weird ,)
22:46:35franklingevaerts: it's my password! :;
22:46:58gevaertsfranklin: yes, so how is that different from a password on a device?
22:47:08TheSevenfranklin: are you planning to do this for ipod classics specifically?
22:47:19franklinTheSeven: no
22:47:33TheSevenbecause there is definitely no way to lock these things down
22:47:39franklingevaerts: the password for webmail is always on, and it is stored on a remote server
22:47:45the-kyleEncryption and password protection is definitely not against open source principles. Linux, FreeBSD and other open source operating systems implement both.
22:47:47TheSeven(otherwise we wouldn't have been able to run rockbox on them in the first place)
22:48:41franklinthe-kyle: DAPs are different from computers in that it is very easy to read/modify the hard drive.
22:49:06TheSevenwell I wouldn't store that kind of information on the hard drive in the first place
22:49:23TheSeventhe lock would typically have to be implemented inside the bootloader flash
22:49:31franklinTheSeven: how does iOS do it?
22:49:38the-kyleWell that and disk encryption would be rather hard to implement on a low-end device I would think.
22:49:45TheSeveniOS doesn't have easily removable storage
22:50:10franklinTheSeven: you're right (and it you can't read the disk easily, you mean?)
22:50:10TheSeventhe-kyle: at least on ipod classic and ipod nano2g it would actually be easy and fast
22:50:21franklinTheSeven: why? modify emcore?
22:50:33TheSeventhose chips have hardware crypto accelerators
22:50:44the-kyleDisk encryption would be the most secure form of password protection, but it most likely would only work on a few targets.
22:50:48TheSeveni.e. a fast AES256 hardware implementation
22:51:16franklinTheSeven: no, just hash the password somewhere and record that password protection is enabled
22:51:21TheSevendisk encryption only provides data protection though, it isn't really a theft deterrant
22:51:23the-kyleOh that's not bad at all. But it would probably be limited to those devices.
22:51:49gevaertsfranklin: *no* password thing is going to be a theft deterrent for a DAP
22:52:02franklingevaerts: so, it's useless :(
22:52:02TheSevenfranklin: yes, that's what I'd store on the bootloader flash if anywhere, to prevent people from taking out the HDD and messing with that information
22:52:14TheSevenhowever they can also mess with it on the bootloader flash on ipods, so that's pointless ;)
22:52:25gevaertsIf you want to prevent theft, either use conventional means (keep the thing in a safe place at all times, chain it to your body, ...), or make it look broken
22:52:43*franklin wonders what you mean by broken
22:52:56TheSevenprobably "not worth stealing"
22:53:10gevaertsDents, a cracked screen, ...
22:53:17franklinTheSeven: like, every DAP nowadays :P
22:53:17the-kyleApply physical damage to the device that is cosmetic only.
22:53:33franklinthe-kyle: I want my DAP to look somewhat nice
22:54:08the-kyleIn that case, it will look to a potential thief like something worth stealing.
22:54:32franklinOr, just add some secret way to turn it on (hold down center button), and not commit it to Git :D
22:54:43gevaertsOr you could *also* carry something much more expensive, so the thief goes for that instead :)
22:54:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:55:10the-kyleOr better yet, something that *looks* more expensive.
22:55:20franklinFake gold watch...
22:55:26gevaertsfranklin: *how* exactly does a thief know you've added such a thing? Surely they'd just steal the thing and notice this later when they get home?
22:55:26ZincAlloyhow about getting a cheap player?
22:55:36gevaertsDo you expect them to then bring the thing back to you?
22:57:37franklingevaerts: well.....
22:57:41the-kyleIf I'm carrying around a fake something that I would hope a thief would go for instead of my less expensive DAP, I would expect the thief to be gone and not be able to find me by the time the item is discovered to be a fake.
22:58:08 Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@rockbox/developer/stripwax)
22:58:19franklinthe-kyle: ok, ok :)
22:58:20gevaertsthe-kyle: yes, exactly. Same as with the password thing :)
23:05:33 Join RiD [0] (~RiD@
23:06:03franklinI fear rockbox is slowly becoming obsolete as DAPs lose popularity to smartphones :(
23:06:34the-kyleNo music player on my phone can even come close to the features and power of Rockbox.
23:07:10franklinStill, only two DAPs on are still in production (unstable targets are, though)
23:07:13the-kyleNot to mention that the battery needs to be used to make phone calls and do web stuff, and playing music would subtract from the battery live.
23:08:32franklinthe-kyle: but even though rockbox IS far superior than smartphones in many ways, it doesn't fully support enough new players to gain many new users
23:11:21franklinBTW, when will 3.14 be released? Any pi easter eggs? Pi Day 2015?
23:13:29 Quit stripwax (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
23:19:54 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
23:23:18RiDso thats why i use rockbox in my phone :v
23:25:35 Join kugel [0] (
23:25:35 Quit kugel (Changing host)
23:25:35 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
23:26:31preglowandroid rockbox still works better than any other android players i've been able to find
23:26:38preglowso it's still got tons of merit
23:26:43preglowand a long way to go...
23:26:43 Quit kugel (Client Quit)
23:34:26franklinpreglow: "I have this amazing piece of software, but you need the Android NDK and SDK as well as a computer to build it all."
23:36:01franklinpreglow: "Oh yeah, I also need to have a *nix-like system to build it"
23:39:25saratogaour VM image should work, although you'll need to install the NDK
23:41:57franklinsaratoga: exactly. it will have zero usage outside the developer community until it is accessible through "official" channels (Play Store)
23:42:46preglowdoesn't really take that much to get a build
23:42:52preglowi haven't compiled it from source in years
23:43:03preglowbut sure, it should be easier to install
23:43:06preglowlike i said
23:43:20preglowtons of potential for improvement
23:43:21franklinpreglow: saratoga: seriously, though. will it ever get on the Play Store?
23:43:36preglowwith the developer interest it has currently: doubtful
23:43:48preglowand that is without me knowing anything of google's guidelines
23:44:02franklinpreglow: I though you would know :)
23:44:27preglowmight be stuff going on behind the scenes i know nothing of, i haven't been an active dev for ages now
23:44:32preglowbut sure doesn't look like it
23:46:46franklinsaratoga: do you know? how far along is RaaA?
23:46:59preglowi still haven't been able to find anything i'd rather use, but with my fervent hatred of library based players, that's no big wonder
23:47:24franklinpreglow: library based?
23:47:42preglowyeah, you know, insisting on accessing your music as a metadata based library
23:47:55franklinpreglow: don't get me started :)
23:47:59preglowbrowsing through artists/genres/albums and shit, with no alternative
23:48:18franklinpreglow: I want to see all my directories with all my files and all my games
23:48:56franklinpreglow: and 2048 :)
23:49:06RiDi hate that too preglow :v
23:50:17franklinsaratoga: there is no malloc() in RB!?
23:50:35saratogayes, most devices dont' have virtual memory, so theres no way to malloc
23:51:46franklinsaratoga: so I need to make a huge char array to use malloc?!
23:52:06saratogayou probably shouldn't use malloc at all, but yes, you could do that
23:53:03franklinsaratoga: I do understand the philosophy behind it, though. most DAPs don't have MMUs
23:53:14 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...)

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