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#rockbox log for 2014-07-31

00:07:17 Quit charlie (Remote host closed the connection)
00:09:58 Join charlie [0] (
00:16:16 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:24:33 Join ivanf [0] (~ivan@unaffiliated/kferdous)
00:27:53 Quit amiconn (Remote host closed the connection)
00:27:54 Quit pixelma (Remote host closed the connection)
00:31:43 Join franklin [0] (47474769@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
00:32:27franklinIs it just me, or are the forums *EXTREMELY* slow right now?
00:34:15[Saint]No, its not just you.
00:34:46[Saint]scorche|sh: if this timestamp correlates with anything in your system, perhaps it is worth looking at.
00:34:53[Saint]This happens on a fairly regular basis.
00:35:12scorche|shi cant check into it right nowe
00:35:20*[Saint] nods
00:35:24[Saint]No rush
00:35:37 Join pixelma [0] (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:35:37 Join amiconn [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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00:37:57franklin[Saint]: you're saying this is normal?
00:38:18franklinTaking two minutes to load a website is normal?
00:41:20 Quit amiconn (Remote host closed the connection)
00:41:21 Quit pixelma (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:43:27[Saint]No. I am not saying that at all. I find it difficult to understand how you would come to that conclusion.
00:43:36 Join amiconn [0] (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:44:35franklin"[18:34] <[Saint]> This happens on a fairly regular basis." - it's normal?
00:45:07scorche|shfranklin: what is your end-goal in this line of questioning?
00:45:18[Saint]As I literally _just_ said. No..
00:45:54scorche|shobviously, this isnt how things should be - it'll get fixed when i get some time to look into it, which I unfortunately do not have right now
00:46:49 Join pixelma [0] (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:46:54[Saint]I hope I didn't disturb you. I just wanted to give you a timestamp as a point of reference for correlation.
00:47:23scorche|sh[Saint]: not at all - i wasnt really replying to you =)
00:47:29[Saint]As usually by the time I end up notifying you of the situation it has passed.
00:47:59scorche|shyeah - i dont see anything abnormal right now and dont have the time to dig into logs
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01:00:19franklinFine now.
01:03:02scorche|shyes, we noticed...
01:03:20franklin(why does it happen)
01:03:37scorche|shif i knew at the moment, it wouldnt happen at all..
01:05:07 Quit ZincAlloy1 (Quit: Leaving.)
01:08:16 Quit ender (Quit: Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain)
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01:44:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:49:14 Nick GenesisAquarion is now known as SolarAquarion (~SolarAqua@unaffiliated/solaraquarion)
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03:44:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:20:07 Join ygrek [0] (~user@
04:35:16 Join edweird_ [0] (
04:37:17edweird_hello all, my clip + is bricked, and the website says come here before attempting to un-brick
04:37:30edweird_what do i need to know?
04:38:08[Saint]Its not necessarily what you need to know, its more of an opportunity for us to potentially prevent you from doing something stupid.
04:38:23[Saint]First off: What makes you believe this device to be bricked?
04:38:36edweird_two things:
04:39:01edweird_booting to sansa (with left button) it shows the sansa logo, then the flower, and it hangs there
04:39:22edweird_booting without the button, it says somethign about usb bootloader mode
04:39:30edweird_then says Plug usb cable
04:39:58edweird_i cannot mount it in linux or windows
04:40:09edweird_no matter which method i attempt to boot with
04:41:35edweird_before this it was acting strangely and some music files were corrupted, so i tried to do a format and re-install, but somehow ended up here
04:42:40edweird_i tried that once, let me try again
04:44:09edweird_sometimes it doesn't come up with anything at all
04:44:57[Saint]If it _does_ mount, is it by any chance exposing an odd sized disk? Perhaps 4MB, or 64MB?
04:45:28edweird_i haven't been able to mount it at all
04:46:03edweird_windows it says something about 'unrecognized device'
04:46:15edweird_in linux sometimes it shows up as /dev/sdc
04:46:23edweird_but i can't get to it with cfdisk
04:46:26edweird_or mount
04:46:46[Saint]None of these things are terribly encouraging signs.
04:46:58edweird_sometimes it give buffer i/o error sector 384
04:47:09edweird_i agree
04:47:41edweird_ok, i booted to sansa and unplugged, but it froze at the flower logo again
04:48:21[Saint]At this stage you don't have anything to lose by proceeding with the unbrick instructions, but it is unlikely to have a positive result.
04:49:35edweird_im quite experienced with the soldering iron, and i have the pictures as a guide, is there anything else i need to know?
04:50:09edweird_oh, best way to crack the thing open: knife blade? screwdriver?
04:58:21 Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services)
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04:58:24 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
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04:58:49edweird_nvm. knife blad worked fine. now im seeing corrosion on some of the pins. not good
04:59:19edweird_well, i'll try to scrub it off real good with a fine toothbrush and see what happens
04:59:34edweird_thanks [Saint], wish me luck
04:59:54[Saint]I'll cross various appendages for you.
05:11:19 Quit TheSeven (Disconnected by services)
05:11:35 Join [7] [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
05:25:30edweird_ok, it's disassembled, i cleaned off all the corrosion i could find under the magnifying glass
05:25:44edweird_now it shows up with cfdisk, but the partition is like 32 MB
05:25:52edweird_supposed to be 4GB
05:26:26[Saint]Yeah, this is pointing towards the flash chip having died.
05:26:54edweird_i haven't soldered anything yet
05:29:25edweird_but i agree, if the flash chip died, it won't matter
05:36:06 Quit RiD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.)
05:44:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:48:39edweird_yep, it's toast
05:48:44edweird_keeping the battery ;)
05:48:51 Quit edweird_ (Quit: leaving)
06:04:57 Join HeadWhacker [0] (77387fd8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
06:08:40HeadWhackerHi I need some help about buffer_size on alsa used by Rockbox.
06:10:16HeadWhackeris there a guide how much we allocate for buffer/period size in Rockbox ?
06:13:05HeadWhackerI am working on Rockbox on DX90. at the default period size of 1024. there is a crackling noise during playback.
06:14:59HeadWhackerit's quite random usually every 3 - 5 tracks the noise appears or when quickly moving forward and backwards in the playlist
06:16:18HeadWhackerThe noise disappear when I increase the period size. however it slows down the touch screen scrolling.
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07:07:53 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@
07:14:55 Join saratoga [0] (123e1c18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
07:15:25saratogaHeadWhacker: what are you changing?
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07:44:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:11:42*[Saint] has found a lot of interference/noise on hosted app targets comes from charging the amp up for the period shortly before, during, and slightly after system notifications.
08:12:25[Saint]Some brain dead Android targets will charge up the amp regardless of the audio routing policy, also.
08:13:01[Saint]Ie. Even if headphones/dock is plugged.
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08:18:42 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
08:20:48 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
08:25:22 Join stoyan [0] (~io-headqu@
08:29:01TD-Linuxyeah audio on most android phones is horrible in general, noone cares about it
08:29:49[Saint]Well...that's not entirely true.
08:29:54[Saint]Just, largely true.
08:30:22[Saint]You're basically fucked if you don't have a modern flagship device with a modern Android version.
08:30:54[Saint]Android audio has VASTLY improved since 4.2+
08:31:33 Part stoyan
08:32:42[Saint]HTC claims to care about audio...but, only in a Beats Audio-esque kinda way.
08:33:57[Saint]As in, the care about audio insofar as its a vessel to enable misguided people to drop money on things they don't need or understand.
08:34:10dfkt_now they just need to cut the media volume control to 8 steps, like the other volumes.. who would ever need 16 steps? :P
08:34:21 Join ender [0] (
08:34:21 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
08:34:47[Saint]Media volume in Android is weird...
08:35:17[Saint]The amount of people who have no idea that there's actually two distinct media volume levels astounds me.
08:35:58[Saint]Granted its non-obvious.
08:37:15dfkt_i'm not aware of two media volume levels (besides framework-res hacks or xposed modules)
08:37:59[Saint]Headphones plugged/device docked vs. ...not.
08:38:23dfkt_ah, that
08:38:37[Saint]Android will remember the past value for headphones, dicks.
08:39:04[Saint]It confuses the almighty hell out of some people.
08:40:15dfkt_that's the biggest positive of the media volume for me, since i never use it over the built-in speakers
08:40:18 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
08:41:49[Saint]If Android didn't have the whole "safe listening level" thing, I would *reeeeeaaaaally* hate it.
08:41:57 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
08:42:28TD-Linux[Saint], most linux desktops do that as well.
08:43:04saratogamost current generation devices seem pretty good, at least in the developed world
08:43:08TD-Linuxalso I meant hardware quality, not android itself (though android still has issues)
08:43:14saratogai think they all use the same qualcomm dac
08:43:21TD-Linuxyeah the qualcomm ones are really bad.
08:43:24saratogasince like 99% of the market is qualcomm
08:43:33saratogaand qualcomm is excellant overall
08:43:56TD-Linuxthe best qualcomm device I have is a n7 2013 and it's actually okay.
08:44:11TD-Linuxsaratoga, s3 and older was horrendous
08:44:49*amiconn actually likes this volume remembering feature, and thinks it's quite easy to understand
08:44:54TD-Linuxamiconn, I like it too.
08:45:07[Saint]The output on the S/S2/S3 is actually REALLY solid.
08:45:10amiconnI didn't find anything bad about audio in android, and that's on 4.0
08:45:15[Saint]When measured, that is.
08:45:19dfkt_yeah, it's jsut the extremely rough amount of volume steps that's very silly
08:45:26TD-Linux[Saint], I mean the Snapdragon 3 series
08:45:28TD-Linuxnot the galaxy serires.
08:46:14[Saint]dfkt_: I'm not sure I understand why its silly.
08:46:16TD-Linuxthe samsung phones have an external dac which helps a lot.
08:46:33[Saint]If 15 steps is silly...what's Rockbox? ;)
08:46:35saratogaTD-Linux: i think you're mixing up devices
08:46:50[Saint]Sounds like it.
08:46:51dfkt_[Saint], because - depending on headphones - step 0 is mute, step 1 is too quiet, step 2 is too loud
08:47:01dfkt_there's absolutely no fine control
08:47:02TD-Linuxsaratoga, am I? I just googled and the samsung s3 has an external dac.
08:47:04amiconnThat said, I don't use my phone for listening to music that much.
08:47:09 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
08:47:12TD-Linuxhowever the snapdragon s3 can operate with an on-chip dac
08:47:14amiconnI prefer a dap with decent battery runtime :)
08:47:58[Saint]What kinda runtime do you get from your phone?
08:48:02 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:48:29[Saint]I get ~36 hours with ~4 hours screen on time.
08:48:37[Saint]That ought to be enough for anyone.
08:49:00amiconnI actually didn't measure runtime when listening to music
08:49:29[Saint]It shouldn't make an appreciable difference.
08:49:44[Saint]Maybe -1/1.5h
08:50:07amiconnWith normal usage I usually get through the day (charging overnight). Sometimes it's not even enough for that
08:50:27[Saint]Which device is this?
08:50:36amiconnSE Xperia Pro
08:50:40pixelmaYeah, my impression is that the SEs have quite good sound quality
08:50:58[Saint]Ahhhhh...that explains a fair bit.
08:51:57amiconnWith very little usage it's possible to get two days (but then it would make sense that this is a smartphone so...)
08:52:28[Saint]She's an old girl these days.
08:53:00[Saint]I'm guessing its the keyboard that has you hanging on to it?
08:53:21[Saint]Physical keyboards are like unicorns now.
08:53:49amiconnWhile there are newer phones with hw keyboard, they somehow don't find their way to Europe :(
08:54:45[Saint]Get a Neo900.
08:54:50*[Saint] snickers
08:55:24[Saint]I'm surprised that project didn't die a horrible unfunded death.
08:55:47[Saint]It still clings to life, somehow.
08:59:08saratoganot sure what is meant by an "external dac", but basically every qualcomm chipset phone ever made uses the WCD93x0 DAC, including the galaxy s series
08:59:37saratogaits why basically every LTE phone ever made has nearly the same audio
09:01:04[Saint]Though Samsung tries VERY hard to cripple it via their amplifier settings.
09:01:25[Saint]...I think they thought they made it better.
09:01:29*[Saint] shudders
09:04:17saratogathe drivers are open source, so its probably not too hard to fix i guess
09:05:29[Saint]You can expose it all via the Samsung Developer console.
09:06:08[Saint]But, its also highly possible to blow the amp up in there, as they do no sanity checking for obviously outrageous values.
09:06:08saratogaeven easier
09:07:09[Saint]Across their various devices the gain and HP/LP filters are just nuts.
09:07:09saratogathats true of most players, although DACs are pretty tough devices since they're usually made on some ancient fab process, so i doubt you'll break anything permanently
09:07:46 Quit kugel_ (Remote host closed the connection)
09:07:47 Join mortalis [0] (~kvirc@
09:08:46[Saint]Yeah there's a truckload of weird audio software shit exposed by the developer console on some sammys.
09:09:07saratogai guess some kind of built in EQ?
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09:19:35 Quit kugel (Changing host)
09:19:36 Join kugel [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
09:44:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:15:45 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
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10:34:43 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
11:02:33[Saint]JdGordon: would it be considered a bug that the "backdrop" doesn't get forced to redraw if you're drawing into it conditionally?
11:04:50[Saint]For example, trigger a conditional viewport that draws directly into the backdrop buffer.
11:08:19 Join stoyan [0] (~io-headqu@
11:22:56kugelwasn't drawing to the backdrop buffer only supported in unconditional (or even the default) viewports?
11:24:48[Saint]that's not my understanding.
11:25:09kugelCustomWPS doesn't mention it
11:26:29[Saint]colour me surprised.
11:26:59kugelmy understanding was that %VB is for when you want to compose the backdrop of separate images (or %dr etc), not for dynamic content (let alone text)
11:27:06kugelbut the documentation isn'T clear
11:27:28[Saint]Well...I am using it for composing the backdrop of separate images.
11:27:36[Saint]It just also happens to be conditional. :)
11:28:02kugeldynamic includes conditional
11:28:28kugelanyway let JdGordon clear us up
11:29:03[Saint]To clarify, I'm not drawing text into the backdrop buffer.
11:31:40*[Saint] is /preeeeeeeeeetty/ sure he's the only person to ever attempt anything quite like this.
11:31:50[Saint]So - this is indeed uncharted territory.
11:33:02[Saint]Overflow menu demo: [nsfw - garbage strings]
11:34:55[Saint]vaguely Androidesque - vaguely Rockboxesque.
11:35:12 Part stoyan
11:42:41[Saint]I haven't yet decided on the final order of the overflow menu - hence the demo - but several of those slots may or may not be bars in the end, and I doubt there will be a situation where it will ever be full.
11:42:52[Saint]There can be more or less slots as required.
11:44:36[Saint]I suppose I might not necessarily need to draw into the backdrop buffer at all here, I could very well abuse draw order instead, but I like the reliability that comes with knowing for certain the stacking order.
11:44:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:50:07kugelyay for vulgar language in showcase pictures
11:50:56kugelwhat part is drawin with %VB now?
11:51:29[Saint]the backdrop of the individual overflow menu segments.
11:52:09kugelbtw, i think it would be more useful to use the android action bar instead, although it's pretty useless without actions?
11:52:15[Saint]that's in its own viewport for each overflow menu slow and sent to the backdrop buffer.
11:52:23kugelwhich one is the "overflow menu"?
11:53:38[Saint]Everything there with a button is, that's the "overflow menu open" case. Normally, it would be album art, or metadata, should no art be present.
11:53:54[Saint]the overflow menu can also dive into several submenus.
11:54:37[Saint]I pretty much completely removed the need for the quickmenu.
11:55:43kugelthe bottom buttons?
11:56:07kugelis the list with the on-off toggles also part of the overflow menu?
11:56:09[Saint]Heh. Are the buttons *that* non-obvious?
11:56:25[Saint]that list *is* the overflow menu. Yes.
11:56:32kugelonly the list?
11:56:37[Saint]Only the list.
11:56:59kugelwithout seeing it flowing it's hard to see what the overflow menu is
11:57:25kugelanyway you can have the quickscreen as a list (with more than 4 items) regardless of the skin, no?
11:58:09[Saint]Yeah, you can.
11:58:18kugelwhat do you display there (I don't know about a fuck setting, unfortunately)?
12:00:30[Saint]repeat mode (has its own submenu w/ toggles), shuffle (toggle), playlist, context menu, track info screen, quickscreen, back one, back to top, for now.
12:00:38[Saint]But I can expose any setting here.
12:02:07[Saint]I guess I could also do volume, bass, trebel, balance, etc.
12:02:14kugelbut which settings is probably coded into the theme?
12:03:20[Saint]that's what I'm having some difficulty deciding on presently, which is why I'm working with a bunch of full slots of dummy assets for the present.
12:03:48[Saint]I haven't decided on the exact content or order as yet.
12:05:07[Saint]for example, I can't decide on an obvious implementation of "up one" for coming back out of submenus.
12:05:47 Quit adnap (Quit: Lost terminal)
12:05:55[Saint]its either going to be "Back..." as the very last entry in a submenu list, or ".." as the secondmost entry after the submenu header.
12:06:35[Saint]perhaps a visual queue is better, like an actual "back" button.
12:06:43*[Saint] shrugs
12:06:55[Saint]This part of the theme is...challenging.
12:10:15 Join eternnoir [0] (
12:10:25amiconnHmm, could someone tell me what's wrong with my build client?
12:10:55amiconnIt takes part in build rounds and should be fast enough still, but gets credited zero builds
12:11:25amiconnThe log contains several of these messages: Server message: Fatal build error: Command not found. You have been temporarily disabled.
12:12:36amiconnBut it does not say which command is missing.
12:14:32 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@
12:16:31 Quit ygrek (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
12:18:34[Saint]apt-get install command
12:18:55*[Saint] will show himself to the door...
12:44:30 Join HeadWhacker [0] (84934c34@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
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13:07:30 Quit HeadWhacker (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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13:31:43JdGordon[Saint]: haha, nice list items
13:33:17JdGordon[Saint]: and as far as backdrop layer goes, I cant really remember but I'm fairly certain that the viewports that are backdrop needs to be drawn before the frontlayer ones...
13:34:20JdGordonso to do what you want just setup all your conditionals before you draw the fullscreen backdrop viewport
13:34:25[Saint]JdGordon: that's the case here, wrt: list item draw order.
13:34:51[Saint]viewport for overflow menu item slot backdrop
13:35:51[Saint]viewport for menu item text+touch area & viewport for button if present (side-by-side here)
13:36:42[Saint]buuuuuuuuut, the textual viewport isn't the same paramters as the backdrop viewport, because I want a 60px menu item slow, and a 40px font.
13:37:46[Saint]So unless I make a font with artificial ascent/descent (which I don't want to do), there's no viewport that "covers" the whole of the list itwem backdrop, hence forcing a redraw.
13:37:58[Saint]Only the part(s) covered by text are re-drawn properly.
13:38:18[Saint]Unless I pause/seek/do somthing else that forces a fullscreen re-draw.
13:38:45JdGordonYou want the list view hight setting in the wps pretty much?
13:39:40JdGordonsetting the viewport line height so text can be vertically centered is something i've thought about adding beefore
13:40:27[Saint]hmmm. that's one alternative.
13:40:46[Saint]I'm still jiggling things around as yet, getting things fitting right.
13:40:57[Saint]I may indeed come up with something else altogether.
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15:12:22[Saint]is there a way I can test if the target supports A-B repeat?
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15:12:38[Saint]or, does every target support this?
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15:13:00copperI thought that was a core Rockbox feature
15:13:22[Saint]I can't think how you'd set it on the hosted touchscreen targets
15:13:42gevaertsI think the only reason some don't have it is keymap issues
15:13:58[Saint]aha, right. as above, I guess.
15:14:07[Saint]I can't test for this in a theme.
15:14:15gevaertsFix it :)
15:14:23[Saint]I'll have to.
15:14:25copperfeex eet
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15:15:15*[Saint] thinks he'll take the cheats approach and add an A-B marker set/clear touch area
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15:15:27[Saint]nuts to keymaps...
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15:24:42pixelmahmm... I seem to recall that there was a way to set the markers in a kind of two stage way on targets with few buttons (added later), but I'm not sure
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16:25:44[Saint]Ohhhh...for fucks sake.
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16:26:09[Saint]%if disagrees with some tags
16:26:23[Saint]0 vs 1 based false cases.
16:26:34[Saint]fun times.
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16:28:41[Saint] hmmm.
16:28:48*[Saint] is confuzzled
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16:30:13[Saint]ah, no, I was right.
16:33:03[Saint]heh. man, that's confusing as almighty hell.
16:33:55[Saint]I suppose the "fix" for this is going through /all/ the conditional tags and making sure that they're 1 based instead of 0 based.
16:34:19[Saint]which will break...every theme ever.
16:34:26[Saint]fun times.
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16:47:43pixelmawasn't this also the reason of the off-by-one bug copper had found?
16:51:17pixelmaFS #12891
16:51:18fs-bluebot %?if() evaluates enumeration indexes and arbitrary numbers to (number + 1) (bugs, unconfirmed)
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16:53:11[Saint]oh, right, probably, yes.
16:53:54[Saint]Playlistviewer isn't counted as "leaving the wps", strangely.
16:54:18[Saint]If it were, returning from it should reset my variables.
16:54:28[Saint]but, it doesn't, which is actually very cool.
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17:03:53[Saint]266 lines of "holy..."
17:05:11[Saint]bulk of which goes into defining the plethora of viewports that comprises the overflow menu(s).
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17:07:11[Saint]just a bit of viewport value tweaking (more negative offsets) and scattering of various touch areas to go now.
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