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#rockbox log for 2014-08-09

00:04:25 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:18:57franklinjhMikeS, you seem to be experienced with the ipod classic. So, can you help me understand the piezo driver?
00:20:51franklinThe calls to piezo_start from piezo_button_beep are what interest me the most. What are the arguments to piezo_start for?
00:22:18 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
00:22:29TheSevenfranklin: probably frequency (or period) and duration
00:22:55franklinSo the first argument is the frequency? In what units? KHz? Hz?
00:23:03franklinNot Hz, 22 Hz is TOO low
00:23:20franklinthe beep is very high-pitched
00:23:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:23:49TheSevenwhat is the second argument?
00:23:56franklinAnd the second argument? periods
00:24:16TheSevenlet me have a look at the code
00:24:38TheSevenstatic void piezo_start(unsigned short cycles, unsigned short periods)
00:24:49franklinSo cycles is KHz?
00:24:57franklinand periods is the number of cycles?
00:25:24TheSeventhe timer is configured for 100kHz
00:25:29franklinWhich means? :)
00:25:34TheSevenand it will generate an edge every <cycles> ticks
00:25:48TheSevenso the frequency should be 100kHz / 22 / 2
00:25:57franklinwhy 2?
00:25:58TheSeven(because you have two edges per period)
00:26:16TheSevenand it does that <periods> times
00:26:45TheSeveni.e. will generate 2 * <periods> edges
00:27:02franklinSay I want a 10 KHz beep for 1 second, what parameters would I pass to piezo_start?
00:27:30TheSevencycles=5, periods=10000
00:27:57franklinOK, got the math! Thank you! I am going to add a piezo_beep function to the plugin API now :)
00:28:14franklinBut wait, how do I find the periods?
00:28:26TheSevenduration / frequency
00:28:33franklinOh duh...
00:28:49*franklin faceplams himself
00:28:50 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 32.0/20140804164216])
00:29:25TheSevenremember that this thing has a somewhat narrow frequency response
00:29:31TheSevenit's loudest around 1-2kHz
00:29:59franklinBTW, how slow is division on the ARM CPU?
00:30:12TheSevenand, as this is a square wave, it will produce a rattling sound below a few hundred Hz
00:30:36TheSeveneven though this isn't actually a piezo in the classic, but just a little speaker
00:30:54franklinSo I could play some game music through it? :)
00:31:51TheSevenbeep sequences within an adequate frequency range are of course easy, some old-style arcade game audio effects might be a bit more tricky
00:32:33TheSevenbut the hardware is actually somewhat similar to the internal beep speaker of old PCs
00:33:14TheSevenwith a combination of a timer and a DMA channel you can possibly even play PCM audio on it, with quite a bit of preprocessing
00:33:33TheSevendivision on this CPU takes like 2-3 cycles per bit IIRC
00:33:33franklinok... way above my head now :)
00:33:46TheSevenso a 32 by 32 bit division will probably be below 100 cpu cycles
00:33:54franklinHow much is addition?
00:33:59franklinOr multiplication?
00:34:06TheSevenaddition is 1-2 cycles
00:34:14TheSevenmultiplication is like 2-3 I think
00:34:23TheSevenor even 1-3
00:34:29franklinoh... 25 times slower :)
00:34:35TheSevenalso depends on whether things can be prefetched
00:34:37franklin50 times...
00:34:43franklinYeah, so much slower
00:34:47TheSevenwell multiplication is a hardware operation
00:35:02TheSevendivision is a piece of code, which repeatedly subtracts numbers from each other
00:35:14franklin"Good code too divide takes a Knuthian hero, but even God can't divide by zero!"
00:38:06franklinTheSeven, sorry, but say I have time in uSeconds... cycle count formula?
00:38:15franklinn00b question :)
00:39:09TheSevenso you have time in ┬Ás and frequency in Hz?
00:40:01TheSeventhen cycles = 50000 / frequency, periods = frequency * time / 1000000
00:40:21franklinOK, thank you. :)
00:40:52franklinPrepare to see 2048 with music now... from the speaker :O
00:42:35TheSevenbtw, ARM division code:;a=blob;f=lib/arm_support/support-arm.S;h=6141a3f1584830469eeee7728dcc6d3ec825db64;hb=refs/heads/master
00:43:25franklinyeah... no :) I'm avoiding writing ARM assembly, because, frankly, compilers are better at it in most cases :)
00:43:32franklinOr reading it for that matter :)
00:44:34franklinSo where would the best place be to define the piezo_* functions for the plugin API? in plugin.c? or somewhere else?
00:45:03TheSevenno idea at all, I never dealt with anything higher-level than the firmware tree ;)
00:45:10franklinlol :)
00:45:19franklinthat's good :)
00:48:07franklinAnd is the define for ipod classic IPOD6G or IPOD_6G?
00:54:36 Join Airsh0ck [0] (
00:56:42franklinnm, it's IPOD_6G
01:00:43 Quit ender (Quit: Sex is dirty - if you do it right.-- Isaac Asimov)
01:01:37franklinHey, does someone know where I should define piezo-related plugin functions?
01:55:08 Quit Airsh0ck (Remote host closed the connection)
02:04:57 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
02:08:57jhMikeSfranklin: no idea :) I never cared about looking. Probably some frequency and duration stuff.
02:09:14franklinWell, TheSeven already cleared it up for me :)
02:09:18franklinThanks anyways!
02:10:22jhMikeSBut GCC isn't a compiler
02:10:49franklinGNU Compiler Collection... GNU C Compiler...
02:11:02jhMikeSthat's the great deception
02:11:46jhMikeSDSP never failed to be faster in asm, especially if you exploit stuff that the compiler doesn't
02:23:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:28:48franklinBut for most RISC, compiler is usually 80-95% as fast as handwritten code...
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03:14:59franklinsaratoga, do you know what the third field in the viewers.config file does?
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03:36:11franklinTheSeven, thanks for all the help! I have pushed the code, as well as some sample plugins to Gerrit now!
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04:43:35[Saint]Chrome -dev won't load the .pdf manuals.
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16:12:09pamaurywodz (logs): I don't remember, did you ever committed/pushed to gerrit the changes we made at DevCon to the register description files parser ?
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18:12:22Airsh0ckHey guys, can I find somewhere some rockbox code documentation? I'm new, I've read kernel overview and started to read source code, but documentation would be helpful.
18:12:32franklinAirsh0ck, on what aspect?
18:12:53franklinThe docs aren't the best, but the code is well-commented
18:13:17bertrikthere's not really a guide to the source code structure as far as I know
18:13:25Airsh0ckSome files description, how it is works at all etc.
18:13:54franklinYeah, not really... But again, the code is very well-commented
18:14:07franklinOr self-explanatory in most cases
18:14:32bertrikthe 'firmware' subdir basically contains the 'OS' part and the 'apps' the higher level parts
18:14:53Airsh0ckOkey, I'm going to read the code anyway. Thanks :)
18:14:58bertrikfirmware/target is mostly the hardware/platform specific stuff
18:15:05franklinbootloader/ contains the code for ROLO
18:15:23franklinandroid is for the android port - duh :)
18:15:47franklindocs/ has some useful info
18:15:49Airsh0ckOk, as I read "apps" are mainly "high" level apps like plugins etc? and OS is kernel, drivers?
18:16:18franklinbertrik, what's debian/?
18:17:17Airsh0ckOk. And can you tell what part of software is in the main development right now?
18:17:39bertrikfranklin: no idea
18:18:16bertrikthe rockbox bootloader is basically a stripped version of rockbox itself
18:20:06Airsh0ckI'm asking because I've got Fuze+ and I'm wondering if I can write something useful for this device
18:20:49bertrikAirsh0ck: pamaury is working on that player as far as I know, but I fear that all the 'easy' stuff has already been done
18:21:21bertrikare you thinking of something specific that you want to write?
18:22:50 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
18:23:37Airsh0ckmaybe some simple plugin for start, but mainly I want to get some kernel-related knowledge
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18:27:49franklinAirsh0ck, how about this: a unit converter.
18:28:11franklinFirst you select the type of unit from a menu
18:28:27franklinThen you get a screen that looks kind of like the EQ with several scrollbars
18:28:35Airsh0cksounds good
18:28:47franklinYou scroll up/down to the unit you want, and you scroll left/right to the value you know
18:28:56franklinthen all the other scrollbars change with it
18:29:11pamaurythe Fuze+ port is quite complete, there are a few things to improve for sure but these are not very easy to do
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18:29:33franklinBTW, if I were to buy a new DAP that runs rockbox, what would be the best?
18:29:51franklinAs in completeness of the port and quality of the hardware
18:30:07Airsh0ckwhat is DAP?
18:30:18franklindigital audio player, fancy term for "mp3 player"
18:30:24Airsh0ckah, ok :D
18:30:35franklinI'm thinking Sansa
18:31:14franklinAnd no "crazy ones" like the Clip that has half yellow LCD and half blue :)
18:31:29copperiPod Classic then
18:31:35franklinI already have one :)
18:31:54franklinAnd it needs to run Doom without crashing like the Classic :)
18:32:04 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
18:32:45franklinAlso, why is the Classic port "unusable"? No rbutil install, and the need for emCORE? is that it?
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18:34:04*franklin waves at cmhobbs_
18:34:57copperand no dual boot
18:35:35franklinAny idea when TheSeven will push the massive patch that will fix everything? :)
18:35:48copperask him
18:38:49Airsh0ckis mailing list dead? I subscribe yesterday and I recieve nothing..
18:39:12franklinpeople don't use it that much
18:40:50Airsh0ckok, I see
18:40:54copperI assume he should have received an automatic e-mail
18:41:04copperconfirming his subscription
18:41:13Airsh0ckYes, I've got it
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18:41:44copperthen don't say "nothing" :-/
18:41:55Airsh0ckby nothing I mean any development related messages
18:42:02Airsh0cksorry :/
18:42:04franklinYeah, IRC is used more
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18:42:29franklinSo you want to write a plugin?
18:43:11Airsh0ckI think about it
18:43:33Airsh0ckany suggestions?
18:43:41franklinAs for what to write?
18:44:33coppera vinylifier DSP
18:44:57coppera DSP that simulates surface noise and clicks and pops from vinyl records
18:45:47Airsh0ckI'm afraid, it sounds little hard to me
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18:46:02franklinI think that was a joke ;)
18:46:05franklinOr not?
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18:46:45copperand I think it's just a matter of recording a loop of surface noise, some pops and clicks, and inject them randomly into the PCM stream
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18:47:17copperperhaps with a configurable frequency of pops
18:47:21franklinHow about learning from /my/ first "good" plugin: 2048?
18:47:29copper(as in, how many pops per minute)
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18:48:13Airsh0ckbtw copper, franklin, how long have you develop rockbox?
18:48:21franklinNot that long :)
18:48:33copperme? never
18:48:57franklinAirsh0ck, first come up with a doable goal, then we can help you
18:49:05Airsh0ckyep, I notice 2048 in latest changes today and I'm going to look at this
18:49:50copperwhat is it?
18:51:11franklin2048 is a game
18:51:18Airsh0ckfranklin, okay, I just wanted to chat with developers for now, to see how things going. :)
18:51:26franklinoh sure :)
18:53:03Airsh0ckok, I have to read some code & wiki. Have a nice day guys, thanks for help :)
18:53:11franklinstay on!
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18:55:50franklincopper, you have any ideas for a plugin?
18:56:45copperI just gave you one
18:56:56copperand I don't remember my previous feature requests
19:01:36franklinDoes really no developer want 2048 on their DAP? :)
19:02:11pamauryI never really liked this game
19:02:42franklinWhy? so frustrating? :) Don't worry, it's possible to cheat in my version :)
19:03:00franklinJust edit the savefile with the save editor
19:03:18pamauryno, just boring
19:03:36franklinBoring!? :O
19:03:55franklinpamaury, do you have an ipod?
19:04:05pamaurynever ! ;)
19:04:19franklinSo you don't want music from the internal speaker? :)
19:04:30franklinGerrit #909
19:04:33fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #909 at : 3Added piezo functions to plugin API, as well as some demo plugins by Franklin Wei
19:06:14pamauryoh my, I prefer the true speaker of my zen x-fi or zen mozaic, really !
19:06:48franklinEven though the driver treats it like a piezo, it's really a REAL speaker :)
19:06:49copperwhat internal speaker could possibly produce a remotely worthy output?
19:07:14franklinI can play 128Hz tones, 262Hz tones, and 2000Hz tones controlled from a midi-like file :)
19:07:35franklinGerrit #909, file tonebox.c
19:07:36fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #909 at : 3Added piezo functions to plugin API, as well as some demo plugins by Franklin Wei
19:07:41franklinsee if bluebot can handle that :)
19:07:53pamauryeven if it's a real speaker, I doubt you can get something using by driving it a pwm
19:08:21pamaury*with a
19:08:29copperreminds me of the time I programmed speaker music in BASIC
19:08:58franklinThat's the idea :)
19:10:10franklinNow, the next goal is to play the imperial march :)
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19:25:23franklinOK, I can get a 440Hz "A" to come out... now to fix the bug
19:28:45bluebrother^what's the problem with bluebot?
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19:46:37copperah yes
19:46:46copperfranklin: port the TAK decoder from ffmpeg
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19:56:35franklinbluebrother, maybe make it be able to retrieve info on a SHA1 hash
19:56:46franklinFS #100
19:56:56franklinTesting bluebot
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19:57:22franklinoh wait, where's bluebot?
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20:01:41franklinGerrit #888
20:01:45fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #888 at : 3Added 2048 game by Franklin Wei
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20:44:31bluebrotherfranklin: fs#100
20:44:31fs-bluebot 3Playlist (bugs, closed)
20:45:18bluebrotherfranklin: also ...
20:45:25bluebrotherfs-bluebot: .describe 8e8671a to franklin
20:45:52bluebrotheroh, seems that feature broke recently
20:46:25bluebrotheror it's because of the non-ascii character
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20:46:28 Quit jhMikeS (Changing host)
20:46:28 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
20:47:07bluebrotherfs-bluebot: .describe e557951
20:47:08fs-bluebot3crc-mi4: use const lookup table for crc by Marcin Bukat
20:47:30bluebrotherhmm. Looks like I have to figure what's going wrong with non-ascii characters on describe then :)
20:55:45fs-bluebot 3Playlist (bugs, closed)
20:56:16 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20:56:31franklinfs-bluebot, .describe be61baf189edd8d6625f4a586f56f2ad8b718b8a
20:56:32fs-bluebot3Added 2048 game by Franklin Wei
20:56:37franklinlol yeah :)
20:56:41bluebrotherfs-bluebot: the regexp is "[fF][sS]# {,1}[0-9]+"
20:56:50 Join kuldeepdhaka_ [0] (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka)
20:56:55franklinFS #101
20:56:55fs-bluebot 3#513660: Sleeping Timer (feature, closed)
20:56:59fs-bluebot 3records less time than shows when stopped (bugs, closed)
20:57:10bluebrotherhmm, should be able to simplify that
20:57:18bluebrotheranyway, that's what it matches
20:57:25bluebrotherso fs# 123 works
20:57:26fs-bluebot 3Player: one-touch volume (feature, closed)
20:57:29bluebrotherfs #123 not
20:57:41franklinYou know, if you published the code, this would be unneccessary :)
20:58:00fs-bluebot 3track skipping stops file buffering (bugs, closed)
20:58:04fs-bluebot 3uncompressed PCM recording (feature, closed)
20:58:17franklinthat doesn't work
20:58:19franklinGerrit #1
20:58:24franklinGerrit #101
20:58:26fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #101 at : 3IAP rework patch 9: Move and split code by Ralf Ertzinger
20:58:34franklinGerrit #001
20:58:39franklinGerrit #100
20:58:41fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #100 at : 3IAP rework patch 8: Revert to static buffers by Ralf Ertzinger
20:58:45franklinOK I'll stop
20:59:05franklinfs-bluebot: .say hi
20:59:25*user890104 slaps fs-bluebot
20:59:25fs-bluebotuser890104: ouch!
20:59:34*franklin slaps fs-bluebot
20:59:34fs-bluebotfranklin: ouch!
20:59:38franklinnice :})
20:59:42user890104it still works :)
20:59:45*franklin kicks fs-bluebot
20:59:52*franklin punches fs-bluebot
20:59:59franklinnope... :)
21:00:00bluebrotheryou really thought bluebot simply accepts being slapped?
21:00:09*franklin slaps fs-bluebot
21:00:09fs-bluebotfranklin: ouch!
21:00:10*franklin slaps fs-bluebot
21:00:10fs-bluebotfranklin: ouch!
21:00:11DBUGEnqueued KICK franklin
21:00:11*franklin slaps fs-bluebot
21:00:11DBUGEnqueued KICK fs-bluebot
21:00:11fs-bluebotfranklin: ouch!
21:00:15franklinthis is fun :)
21:00:38franklinbluebrother, make it work for punch/kick too :)
21:00:59franklinOr publish the code so I can: )
21:01:07bluebrotheralso, this is getting off topic
21:01:48franklinhehe so... why doesn't doom work on the Classic?
21:04:00franklinthe last debug message is Initializing graphics engine, but i have traced it down much further
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21:24:03franklinDoes the iPod Classic have a microphone?
21:26:07 Join kugel_ [0] (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
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21:32:40lleelooone question: is asm.make in firmware/asm/$ARCH include all *.S files to build?
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22:23:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:50:11 Join airsh0ck [0] (
22:51:34franklinHi airsh0ck
22:51:56airsh0ckhello franklin
22:52:07franklinDo you have an ipod?
22:52:19 Quit lleeloo (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:52:25airsh0cknope, I've got only Fuze+
22:52:43franklinah... so not imperial march through the piezo for you :)
22:54:04airsh0ckwhat's going on? :D
22:54:26airsh0ckand why only for iPod? :D
22:55:58franklinOnly it has a piezo speaker
22:56:10copperfor the clicks?
22:56:23copperscrollwheel clicks
22:57:04franklinI'm working on the imperial march now
22:57:10franklinGerrit #909
22:57:12fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #909 at : 3Added piezo functions to plugin API, as well as some demo plugins by Franklin Wei
22:57:16CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:57:16*franklin slaps fs-bluebot
22:57:16fs-bluebotfranklin: ouch!
22:58:51*franklin slaps fs-bluebot
22:58:51fs-bluebotfranklin: ouch!
23:01:25franklinsaratoga, can you suggest a better name for the piezo_play function? piezo_tone?
23:03:40franklinsaratoga, could I have the plugin API still call it piezo_play and the function point to piezo_play_tone?
23:09:02franklinNever mind. the signatures are different...
23:19:39 Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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