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#rockbox log for 2014-08-21

00:01:48 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
00:07:38 Quit DormantBrain (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:08:20 Join DormantBrain [0] (~andy@
00:08:25 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@
00:11:48 Quit krabador (Quit: Take the time.)
00:12:51franklinTheSeven: here's a capture of an HP laser mouse being plugged in + used for a few minutes:!fkU1TSBC!u9-5NquhcpX_JcLvWpSXDPPS_UdmdMI-L_0eAqwLzAU
00:12:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:13:31TheSevennot sure if that is of much use
00:13:39 Join krabador [0] (~krabador_@unaffiliated/krabador)
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00:13:51TheSevenit would be better to compare with a PP-based ipod or something, which runs very similar firmware
00:14:05TheSevenotherwise you'll have way too many differences to chase that turn out to be completely irrelevant
00:14:07franklin(Which I don't have :)
00:14:16TheSevenask someone to do a dump then?
00:14:28TheSeventhere are enough people with PP ipods here I think
00:14:39 Join krabador [0] (~krabador_@unaffiliated/krabador)
00:14:55franklinwho? [Saint]?
00:15:06franklinHe says he has every iPod...
00:17:57 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:20:16TheSevenhe likely has some PP one, yes
00:20:40franklinSo I'll wait... :)
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02:54:14 Join franklin [0] (
02:55:03franklinDoes someone here have a PP iPod?
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03:28:27franklinDoes someone here have a PP iPod? I need to see what USB packets it sends in an HID connection.
03:34:08JdGordonfranklin: you need to read up more... HID is a usb spec which has nothing to do with which device you're talking to
03:36:53franklinJdGordon, but it works on PP iPods, but not on Classic
03:36:58franklinor nano2g
03:39:10franklinI just need a wireshark dump to compare with the one I get with the classic
04:01:18JdGordondoes wireshark even work for that?
04:02:53TD-Linuxyes it does.
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04:19:59franklinJdGordon, on linux only with usbmon kmod
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04:44:13franklinscorche|sh, the forums are slow right now
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10:47:03pamaurywho still has a Gigabeat-S ?
10:47:28[Saint]...fuckin' no one.
10:47:39[Saint]jhMikeS, apparently.
10:47:51*gevaerts has one somewhere
10:50:30pamauryI got my hands on a Zune 30GB (first generation), and it appears to be *very* similar to the GigabeatS
10:51:16pamauryhowever the tools for firmware patching the beast are a bit of a mess
10:51:20*gevaerts nods
10:51:44gevaertsSome people see the beast as a prototype for the zune
10:51:45pamauryalso, it uses the same update mechanism based on MTP as the ZEN *
10:52:21pamaurysince my plan is still to make RBUtil work with MTP, I might also have a go at the beast and also the zune at the same time
10:54:49pamaurygevaerts: if you don't use yours, would you mind lending it to me when I begin working on the MTP installer ?
10:54:49[Saint]Isn't the Beast a cock to recover?
10:55:04[Saint]By way of it committing suicide if you look at it wrong.
10:55:22gevaertspamaury: Sure. I'll try to dig it up tonight, and then we'll figure out how to get it to you
10:55:23[Saint]Or is that no longer the case?
10:55:36pamauryit has a pretty complicated boot procedure, but as long as you don't touch the bootloader it can recovery itself
10:55:47gevaerts[Saint]: it's easy to recover, because you get a lot of practice :)
10:56:41pamaurythe only point which of uttermost importance is to never, ever flash a nk.bin file with too small size, in which case you would overwrite the bootloader and possibly (surely ?) brick it.
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12:04:24[Saint]...too small?
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12:13:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:46:00 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@
12:51:10pamauryyeah the bootloader uses the size of the image to determine if it should put it on the harddrive or the flash, small images go to flash and overwrite recovery
12:51:21pamaurydoes that look broken by design ? ;)
12:53:38[Saint], what, does the rb bootloader just add N padding?
12:54:40[Saint]Hmmm. Guess its not quite so trivial.
12:55:04[Saint]I would look, but, I tried yo do some work earlier and my brain gave up.
12:55:23[Saint]Stupid flu.
12:55:47pamauryyou don't even need to because what matters is the "virtual" image size, which has nothing to do with the actual size
12:56:00pamauryyeah WinCE binary formats are just completely crazy
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14:27:41 Join Riiiis [0] (5ab84a3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
14:28:19RiiiisHey guys, I need to install rockbox on a bunch of Sandisk Sansa Clip+ devices
14:29:01Riiiisbut when i connect the player and windows has installed various drivers, the rockbox installer can't find the device
14:29:20RiiiisI've tried on 3 different windows boxes now, same result. What could i do wrong?
14:30:28pamauryRiiiis: make sure the clip+ is in MSC mode and not MTP
14:30:37Riiiishow do i set that?
14:31:10Riiiisfound it
14:31:17Riiiisthanks! i hope that will solveit
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15:58:19dfktis there a setting to make the h300 line-out fixed, independent of the volume control? i just searched through the manual, but line-out wasn't mentioned
15:58:31dfkt(so i guess there's no setting for it :)
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19:46:54ZrZdo you know about Samsung YP basic usb mp3/oga player ?
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19:48:51 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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19:50:16pamauryZrZ: what is the name of the player ?
19:50:47pamauryor are you asking for a recomandation ?
19:51:08ZrZYP-U2R ZB/XEF
19:51:14ZrZEAN=8808979896172 Ref=AH69-01705C
19:51:46pamaurythat's an old player, wait a second
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19:53:55ZrZyes old enough to be bricked without remorses
19:54:06pamauryyeah, it's basically impossible to port rockbox to it
19:54:14ZrZi knew that
19:54:24ZrZbut i was wondering what was inside
19:54:32pamaurythe SoC is STMP3550
19:54:51pamauryit's a super strange 24-bit DSP with general purpose instructions
19:55:19pamauryand it uses raw NAND Flash
19:56:21ZrZgreat let me note this down
19:57:28pamauryI have the service manual for it
19:57:30pamaurywith part list
19:57:44pamauryand some schematics
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20:13:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:31:36ZrZpamaury: unsure i'll use them
20:32:18ZrZwhat software does it support ?
20:41:18pamauryZrZ: what do you mean, which software ?
20:47:21 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:49:21 Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint)
20:49:34ZrZto build the firmware ?
20:49:47ZrZsince I guess there is OS on it
20:51:50pamauryit's all propriertary software, it was probably built using the Sigmatel STMP3500 SDK
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22:08:59 Quit ender` (Quit: printk("; corrupted filesystem mounted read/write - your computer will explode within 20 seconds ... but you wanted it so!\n");-- /usr/src/linux/fs/hpfs/super.c)
22:13:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:28:18 Join franklin [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin)
22:29:11franklinDoes anyone have a non-classic/n2g iPod with RB?
22:35:34ParkerRfranklin, I had the Nano 1G with rockbox
22:35:42franklinhmm, ok
22:35:48 Join rockboxuser [0] (2ed09d82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
22:35:58franklincan you do a wireshark usb dump on linux with HID enabled?
22:36:15rockboxuserCan Plugin2048 work on the Fuze+?
22:36:23ParkerR"I had the Nano 1G with rockbox"
22:36:28franklinrockboxuser, I wrote it so yes :)
22:36:32ParkerRFell onto carpet and died somehow
22:36:34franklinParkerR, ah...
22:36:50franklinrockboxuser, It works on anything but the recorder+player]
22:36:54ParkerRI have it still but havent been able to ressurect it
22:37:08franklinrockboxuser, why do you ask?
22:37:35rockboxuserthanks franklin. is plugin 2048 in the latest dev build
22:37:40franklinyep it is :)
22:37:56rockboxuserthanks I try it out.
22:38:06franklinhave fun and report any bugs ;)
22:38:34 Quit rockboxuser (Client Quit)
22:38:36*franklin thinks 2048 is the best plugin in Rockbox now, besides DOOM
22:39:27franklinboomshine is terrible in my opinion...
22:39:57franklin2048 is much, much better :)
22:40:13franklinboomshine is just too, well... lua-ish
22:40:55*franklin just dislikes interpreted languages when they are used for "production" roles
22:40:57 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@
22:41:51franklinParkerR, 2048, DOOM, and superdom are my top 3
22:46:01franklinTheSeven, how do I set the piezo in the S5L to "on" and "off"?
22:46:20franklin(or can I?)
22:46:59franklinThe way it is in the piezo driver is that it sets a timer that does it
22:47:09franklin(setting the current to the piezo on/off)
22:47:28 Quit ZrZ (Quit: ZNC -
22:47:35TheSevenyou mean manually controlling the piezo's GPIO pin or what?
22:47:45franklinExactly that :)
22:48:13TheSeventhis isn't actually a piezo btw, but a little speaker
22:48:25TheSevennot sure if it would survive getting a DC high signal
22:48:45franklinWell, my goal is to play PCM audio
22:48:45TheSevenand I also don't know which GPIO pin it is, but I think that can be figured out with some tricks
22:48:55franklini.e., without headphones
22:49:11TheSevenusing a timer seems much more adequate for that than bitbanging the gpio
22:49:24TheSevenyou'll need a very high speed pwm
22:49:33franklinHow could I dump PCM data to it?
22:50:23TheSevenfor each PCM sample, adjust the PWM width accordingly
22:50:26franklinThere's a related patent here:
22:50:35franklin(expired, thankfully)
22:50:40TheSevenI doubt that the result would really be useful though
22:51:16franklinSo, how do I do it?
22:51:53TheSevencheck what the GPIOs are doing, which ones are changing and which ones are constant
22:52:09TheSeventhen start the piezo timer and check which one of the ones that was previously constant is now wiggling
22:52:14 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
22:52:30TheSevenif there are multiple candidates, repeat until you only have one overlapping one
22:52:48TheSevenor if you want to do the timer PWM, set the prescaler to minimum
22:53:12TheSevenset the wraparound limit to 256 or so
22:53:39TheSeventhen, sample by sample, set the PWM on time (duty cycle) to the high byte of the audio sample
22:53:54franklinFrom the piezo timer?
22:54:01franklin*timer callback
22:54:05TheSevencould be possible to use a DMA channel to automate that somehow, but that would probably need a more in-depth understanding of the SoC
22:54:31TheSevenno, you don't need IRQs on that one at all. in fact those would be killing you.
22:56:18franklinOr could I do it from the PCM callback?
22:56:55TheSevenyou'll either have to use an e.g. 22kHz timer IRQ to drive that, or do it in a realtime thread
22:57:07TheSevenin any case you'll have audio dropouts as other tasks compete for the CPU
22:57:28franklinAnd how do I get the PCM data?
22:57:50TheSevenno idea
23:00:06franklinIf I want to do it in a realtime thread, how would I get it started when the audio starts?
23:04:28 Join sakax [0] (~sakax@unaffiliated/sakax)
23:09:40 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:14:34[Saint]I have no idea where I should put a setting to clear ouyt the database.
23:14:49franklinSo you want suggestions?
23:15:12[Saint]Not particularly. Just thinking out loud.
23:15:18franklinSettings->General->Database->Clear Database - duh!
23:16:17[Saint]Nah. I'll drop it in the Database context menu. Itsa got no business being in settings as its not a setting.
23:16:51franklinBut there are many non-settings items in the settings menu: "Initialize now", "Update Now"
23:17:00franklin(especially under database)
23:17:15[Saint]On an entirely unrelated note, you spelled Für Elise wrong.
23:17:26franklinFuer Elise
23:17:38[Saint]And, sure, but just because someone else put some settings in querstionable places doesn't mean I have to.
23:17:56[Saint]Even Fur Elise
23:18:01[Saint]is acceptable.
23:18:08[Saint]Never seen it spelled with an e though.
23:18:34gevaertsue is a perfectly correct way to spell German ü
23:18:44[Saint]The latter is just for those that can't be bothered/don't know how to type an umlaut. ;)
23:18:44franklin" commonly known as "Fr Elise" or "Fuer Elise""
23:18:51gevaertsThere's no good reason not to spell it ü though :)
23:18:55gevaertsfranklin: no!
23:19:01gevaertsThose are *exactly* the same!
23:19:10franklinHave you even listened to it?
23:19:11gevaertsNo "or" involved!
23:19:18franklin(my piezo version) :)
23:19:24 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 32.0/20140818191513])
23:20:07franklinOk [Saint], happy now?
23:23:01franklingevaerts, [Saint], quit picking on people that don't have the weird keyboard you guys have :P
23:23:09[Saint]Some of the notes sound quite wrong. The pitch is fine, but the amplitude sounds off. There are many parts of Für Elise that are _extremely_ delicate, and others that are very, very forceful.
23:23:12gevaertsfranklin: I'm using a US layout
23:23:44franklin[Saint], it's from an internal speaker!
23:24:58franklin[Saint], does it sound different on different iPod models?
23:25:11[Saint]Yes. Immensely so.
23:25:24[Saint]The pitch varies wildly.
23:25:27franklinBTW, have you listened to the SMB theme?
23:26:13franklinYou should :)
23:26:31[Saint]I'm sure I'll live.
23:26:59franklinNo you'll die of boredom if you don't
23:27:51franklinSo, which iPod models play high/low compared with the classic? I'd like to add some pitch correction
23:28:16[Saint]You couldn't possibly do so.
23:28:29[Saint]The piezoi varies wildly even between iPods of the _same_ model.
23:28:34franklinJust like multiplying the frequencies by a certain constant
23:28:38franklinOh what...
23:28:53*franklin blames Apple
23:29:08*franklin blames Foxconn
23:29:17*franklin forgives Apple
23:29:25*gevaerts doesn't see the point of making devices that have a decent audio chip produce bad audio
23:29:52franklinAs [Saint] never says, "for grins" :D
23:30:07gevaertsYou can also make your ipod make a noise by dropping it on various types of floor from various heights
23:30:52franklinVery interesting idea
23:31:43*franklin wonders if there is any way to control the volume of the piezo
23:37:25dfktfranklin, if you ever run out of useful things to add to rockbox, i have a list... ;)
23:37:35franklinhaha go ahead :)
23:37:59franklinI like how you say "useful"
23:38:15franklinAs if playing music through a piezo isn't useful :(
23:38:45dfktthat sentence above implemented that what you do *is* useful
23:39:00franklinwell, sure :)
23:39:07franklinWhat I do... 2048?
23:40:22franklinok, yeah, what is the list?
23:41:08dfktwell, for example, there's this thing that could be awesome to have -
23:41:31dfktit's a BBE-like audio enhancement, the people were good enough to give their schematics away for free
23:41:50dfkt(they're out of business now ;)
23:43:31dfktanother thing that comes to mind, a setting "return to wps", automatically from any screen, after a given time
23:44:03franklinLike you push a button and it goes back?
23:44:11dfktthere was a patch for something like that on the old svn system, but only for the quickscreen
23:44:26franklinI don't understand
23:44:44franklinSo you want it so that when the user holds down a button for a certain amount of time it goes to WPS?
23:44:58dfktnah, without pressing a button - automatically. you set a time in seconds and when you don't interact with any buttons, you get returned to the wps
23:45:01[Saint]I believe he means an idle timeout
23:45:29[Saint]could piggyback off the existing idle timeout setting.
23:46:00franklinI have no idea how to do this efficiently (i.e., without polling with a thread)
23:46:01dfktsomeone created it for the quickscreen only -
23:46:28 Join ploco [0] (dce9b7f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
23:46:58franklinwell, no idea :)
23:47:48[Saint]It almost certainly didn't get in because its rather silly.
23:47:57[Saint]Just press Play tweice, from anywhere.
23:47:58franklinI mean, for one screen it's easy, but for every screen...
23:48:28[Saint]One press jumps back to main, second press jumps to the WPS.
23:48:59franklinMaybe he means from plugins?
23:49:21[Saint]And if you're not in a position to be able to do that, that probably also means you're also not in any position to actually be able to appreciate the WPS.
23:51:31dfkt<[Saint]> It almost certainly didn't get in because its rather silly. <−− yes, and saratoga commented back then that it would be useful when made global, not just quickscreen specific
23:51:57[Saint]I'm not even convinced it would be useful globally.
23:52:07[Saint]Just because its saving two button presses.
23:52:09dfkti would very much like it
23:52:51dfktdicking around at the supermarket checkout cause i'm in god-knows-what menu while the lady talks to me is annoying :)
23:52:56[Saint]If it was actually difficult to enter the WPS, I might agree. But unless you're in a plugin, you're saving two keypresses.
23:53:01dfktusually i then yank out the cable
23:53:10[Saint]No matter where you are in the menu. Two keypresses will get you back to WPS.
23:53:40dfktyeah, that's two too much, sometimes
23:54:28franklinActually, it is for me: my play button needs a *ton* of pressure to work
23:54:48franklinmaybe that's it? your play button is broken? :)
23:55:03dfktseeing the wps as the default state of the interface makes sense to me, an optional idle timeout would probably not hurt anyone - especially since the sleep timer is already in place
23:55:37franklinI am opposed to this idea... just too annoying to go back to where you were
23:56:21dfkthence the magic word "optional"
23:56:45dfktlike "party mode" and "stereo setup", and all that other stuff 95% of people never use
23:57:11franklinhmm... who wants to program this?
23:57:24*franklin pushes [Saint] forward as volunteer

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