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#rockbox log for 2014-09-17

00:00:50[Franklin]ploco: be thankful you didn't have to see huge swaths of red on the build screen :)
00:00:54[Franklin]I did
00:01:30 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:07:13plocothose are very annoying, I know
00:07:32[Franklin]especially when they're false positives.. ares-obo!
00:07:40 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:07:47[Franklin]ares-obo didn't have the sim toolchains but it kept trying to build the sims anyway
00:08:09gevaertsThese things happen
00:08:22 Join nialv7 [0] (
00:08:39[Franklin]which made me freak
00:08:45[Franklin]for about .01 seconds
00:08:47 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
00:10:19plocosun raised..really need to get some sleep ..bye all
00:10:34[Franklin]great dsps, btw
00:10:39 Quit ploco (Quit: Page closed)
00:11:17 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@
00:12:02 Quit sLite (Remote host closed the connection)
00:12:08*[Franklin] hates huge merges
00:12:18[Franklin]where you want something from both
00:12:37[Franklin]otherwise it'
00:12:43[Franklin]otherwise it's easy
00:13:16 Join sLite [0] (
00:16:17[Franklin]woohoo it took me 5 minutes to merge 10 lines...
00:18:43*[Franklin] wonders about an OpenGL port
00:19:09[Franklin]It'd be great having at least OpenGL ES... then I could play some "real" games :O
00:19:57[Franklin]Probably mesa would be the best option
00:20:15*[Franklin] starts porting
00:25:40 Quit nialv7 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:28:56[Franklin]saratoga: g968 ... it's ready!
00:28:59fs-bluebotGerrit review #968 at : Ptable: hopefully fix all the warnings, modify actinide/lanthanide behavior once... by Franklin Wei
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00:46:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:17:59[Franklin]gevaerts: could you try commiting g968?
01:17:59[Franklin]because... it's ready! :)
01:18:04fs-bluebotGerrit review #968 at : Ptable: hopefully fix all the warnings, modify actinide/lanthanide behavior once... by Franklin Wei
01:31:19[Franklin]Any idea when/if relative paths will be supported?
01:35:05 Quit foolsh (Quit: foolsh)
01:35:32 Join foolsh [0] (
01:36:03[Franklin]foolsh: Any idea when/if relative paths will be supported?
01:36:44foolshNope sorry I don't have a clue
01:38:14[Franklin]ahh.. wrong tab
01:38:14[Franklin]anyway, do you think it'd be possible?
01:38:14[Franklin]and does rockbox do ../../?
01:38:14foolshNot sure, but anythings possible, and why not use absolute?
01:38:35*[Franklin] wants 100% POSIX compatability
01:38:36DBUGEnqueued KICK [Franklin]
01:39:04foolshwrite a test plugin, shold be easy enough
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01:41:13[Franklin]probably jhMikeS would know how/why (not) to implement it
01:41:13 Nick [Franklin] is now known as [Frank|in] (
01:41:13DBUGEnqueued KICK [Frank|in]
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01:41:13DBUGEnqueued KICK [Franklin]
01:41:13***Alert Mode level 1
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01:41:13DBUGEnqueued KICK |Frank|in|
01:41:13***Alert Mode level 2
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01:41:13DBUGEnqueued KICK [Franklin]
01:41:13***Alert Mode level 3
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01:41:13DBUGEnqueued KICK foo|inaround
01:41:13***Alert Mode level 4
01:41:20 Quit RiD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.)
01:41:50 Nick foo|inaround is now known as [Franklin] (
01:41:50DBUGEnqueued KICK [Franklin]
01:41:50***Alert Mode level 5
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01:45:16DBUGEnqueued KICK |Franklin|
01:45:16***Alert Mode level 6
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01:49:36DBUGEnqueued KICK [Franklin]
01:49:36***Alert Mode level 7
01:50:00[Franklin]saratoga: ping
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01:59:37***Alert Mode OFF
02:00:08 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
02:03:13fulshDoes anyone know what would cause a #ifndef to be over looked during compile?
02:03:28fulshIs throwing "/usr/local/lib/gcc/arm-mingw32ce/4.4.0/../../../../arm-mingw32ce/include/errno.h:12:25: error: no include path in which to search for errno.h"
02:03:37fulshAnd that file is here
02:03:56fulshIts like its not respecting either #ifndef WINCE and #ifdef __COREDLL__
02:04:07fulshOr is there a compiler flag I need to set or something
02:04:16[Franklin]The include paths?
02:04:40CtcpIgnored 9 channel CTCP requests in 11 minutes and 0 seconds at the last flood
02:04:40*[Franklin] liked foo|sh better
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02:05:12DBUGEnqueued KICK fulsh
02:05:18 Nick fulsh is now known as [Franklin] (
02:05:18DBUGEnqueued KICK [Franklin]
02:07:09foolshThe include paths are fine AFIK, the only funny business is that the compiler is looking for a file that it shouldn't be looking for, I've been on this same problem all day
02:07:26[Franklin]just comment it out?
02:10:34CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 6 seconds at the last flood
02:10:34*foolsh slaps [Franklin] "that breaks other targets"
02:10:48*[Franklin] slaps foolsh back"
02:11:37foolshYeah, commenting it out works, but does not *fix* it
02:11:41[Franklin]if you can't, then I'm stumped
02:11:56[Franklin]perhaps a trigraph is converting to a backslash in a one-line comment?
02:12:17[Franklin]highly unlikely... but who knows?
02:13:05[Franklin](its happened before)
02:13:30 Quit bcobco ()
02:14:27foolshI'm tempted to revert the __COREDLL_ virtual file deletion stuff they pulled on the mingw32ce sources and see what happens
02:22:32[Franklin]is there any kind of pipes
02:22:34[Franklin]in RB?
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03:02:00saratogahaha git clean deleted all my patches but none of the untracked files I was trying to delete
03:02:15saratogaimpossibly useless
03:05:25saratogaseriously, is there anyone here who thinks git is working for us?
03:07:48*foolsh pats saratoga on the shoulder "It's ok buddy, we all feel hated by git sometimes"
03:08:10saratogaam i just misunderstanding something? i thought git clean was supposed to delete untracked files
03:08:44drvinkit uses .gitignore unless you tell it not to
03:09:20saratogaso i can't checkout a patch because I have files that aren't under version control that it would overwrite
03:09:23drvinkand .git/info/exclude or whatever
03:09:26 Quit cholero (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:09:30saratogabut git clean doesn't remove any files because i have no files that aren't under version control
03:10:08saratogahow do I get clean and checkout to agree on what files are being tacked?
03:10:53drvinkgit clean's idea of what's tracked is based on what branch you have checked out
03:11:23saratogaso i checked out master, did a hard reset, then a branch
03:11:29saratogathen a clean
03:11:54saratoganow i can't checkout because i have untracked files according to checkout that clean doesn't see
03:12:28foolshwhaa? I would be so upset too
03:12:39saratogagit diff origin/master says i have no changes
03:12:40foolshwhat gerrit task?
03:12:42drvinkgit status −−ignored
03:12:49drvinksee if there's anything there
03:13:06saratoganothing of note, just some build directories
03:13:15saratoganone of the files checkout is complaining about
03:13:24saratoga is the task
03:14:33saratogagit clean -f right?
03:14:53saratogais there a stronger or more effective version of that command?
03:14:56drvinkgit clean -xfd will delete everything untracked, including empty directories and files that would otherwise be ignored
03:15:10drvinkmight want to use -nxfd to see what it'll delete first
03:15:53drvinkactually i think -d actually removes untracked directories period, not just empty ones
03:15:59saratogathat got it
03:16:30saratogamaybe i spoke too soon
03:16:42saratogai'm in a detached head state
03:16:51saratogahow do I fix that?
03:17:25drvinkwhat do you want to do? go back to a branch, or merge some stuff from a commit onto a branch?
03:17:36drvinkor do you want to make a new branch from your current state?
03:18:11saratogai was expecting the changes to be pulled into my current branch
03:18:15saratogabut i guess i can just make a new one
03:18:30drvinkgit checkout -b my_cool_branch
03:18:34drvinkfrom the detached state
03:18:35drvinkshould work
03:18:39saratogayeah that worked
03:18:47saratogawhy did i end up in the 'detached' state anyway?
03:19:27drvinkgit branches are just "pointers" to places in the commit history, that's why they're cheap to make
03:19:44drvinkso all a branch really is is a reference to some commit which is treated as the HEAD of that branch
03:20:16 Quit babylonlurker (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:20:53saratogawhats the command than to just take your current branch and apply the gerrit task to it? pull?
03:21:14drvinkso, if you check out something that's not a known branch head, it warns you of that so that you don't accidentally throw away some changes (because it's possible to make commits on that "detached" code line)
03:21:21drvink(and then go make a branch from that, etc.)
03:21:29drvinkgit pull should work, yeah
03:22:11[Saint]Its not secret that if you're really used to subversion, git seems unintuitive and fucking nightmarish.
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03:22:28[Saint]there's several things in subversion that are hilariously trivial that git overcomplicates
03:22:36drvinkthe great thing about git is that it does everything you could possibly want (unless what you want is lots of binary file tracking)
03:22:45drvinkthe bad thing is that it's usually not intuitive
03:22:54[Saint]if you'd never ever touched subversion, git would likely seem a bit saner.
03:22:54drvinkuntil you know how to do it, and then it's alright
03:23:01*[Saint] nods
03:23:18drvink(still frustrating though, haha)
03:23:39drvinki haven't used any of the git guis but they might make some stuff easier
03:23:43saratogayeah from my point of view i'd just like to be able to make a branch, apply a patch, and then compile stuff
03:24:01drvinkyeah, pulling or cherry-picking should do what you want, then
03:24:03saratogabut 99% of the time this ends in me having to revert my VM image to an earlier state to recover
03:24:14[Saint]I understand the frustration - apparently so do the various committers that fell off the map entirely when we switched and never requested access.
03:24:32drvinkpull is, at its simplest, just fetch+merge
03:24:41 Quit krabador (Quit: Take the time.)
03:25:18drvinkthe merge might be a fast-forward (i.e. your HEAD is simply advanced to the HEAD of that branch), or it might be an actual merge, depending on whether you have changes that need merging
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03:26:32drvinkyou can make it rebase instead (usually not what you want), and you can also tell it to not fast-forward (also usually what you want)
03:26:40drvinker, also usually *not*
03:27:18drvinkthe latter is a pretty weird case, the former can be useful if you haven't pushed any changes anywhere but want to apply your current work on top of whatever's happened since you last pulled
03:28:18saratogaso if i want to delete a file and post it back to gerrit
03:28:40saratogai can git rm the file, git commit −−amend and then push it?
03:29:20drvinknot sure how gerrit will handle that, but it'll probably work
03:29:40 Quit bcobco (Remote host closed the connection)
03:29:40drvinkactually yeah, it'll handle it fine (i amended a commit and pushed to it for the patch i made)
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03:35:32saratogaso I did a 'git add' followed by a 'git commit −−amend' and it added thousands of other lines that i didn't just add
03:35:44saratogai thought commit only touched files you had added?
03:37:46drvinkan amend is basically redoing the HEAD commit with your changes
03:39:52saratogai think i was just confused about the list of files
03:40:00saratogadoes it only show preexisting files as changed?
03:40:50saratogaor rather, I guess the lines changed is only counting prexisting files, not lines added to new files
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06:32:45EricIm rather amazed at the fact Rockbox is still under development
06:33:34EricBut im sorta curious if anyone here knows if there are any updates to progress on the ipod classic 6th gen
06:35:27EricI guess chat is dead, nevermind
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07:46:39plocosaratoga: try SmartGit. Its good.
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08:03:03wodzsaratoga: My personal git habits are as follows: 1) I keep clean local master which tracks origin/master to always easily come back 2) If I want to try something from gerrit I create separate branch (git branch some_new_branch), 'go' to that branch (git checkout some_new_branch) and then cherry-pick the patch from gerrit. Testing and messing as usual. For the new patch version I usually delete current branch and goto 2: 3) I usually don't ha
08:03:03wodzve uncommited locally changes If I know this is not something very temporal. If it IS something very temporal and I need to switch to something else git stash comes to the rescue. 4) The most useful command in your local branch full of local commits is git rabase -i which lets you reorganize the commits (merge, amend, etc.). You can use additional switch (can't remember from the top of my head which) to go chunk-by-chunk instead of commit-by-
08:04:34wodzsaratoga: There are for sure other, maybe better ways but this works for me reasonably well (i.e I rarely end up in weird state)
08:05:39wodzsaratoga: And BTW I found git to be superior in every single aspect to svn as well as gerrit to be quite handy
08:10:45jhMikeSyou can just check out from gerrit into a detached head, creating an actual branch if you so desire
08:13:39foolshsaratoga: To add to this, if you want to use git to keep track of small changes after pulling in a gerrit task to a branch. Use git as normal, make change, "git add" then "git commit" and when you're ready to upload the changes to the gerrit task, use "git rebase -i HEAD~N" where N is the number of commits backwards you want to "squash" your work into. Then push to gerrit
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08:20:31jhMikeSgit is alot like flying a tardis
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08:24:23wodzha, pamaury cloned itself finally.
08:25:29foolshExcept that little thing sticking out on the side it went really well I see
08:26:13wodzpamaury: How 'analyzers' in qeditor are supposed to support more then one SoC? To make it short I mean how to add clock analyzer for rk27xx
08:27:23wodzfoolsh: Dolly cloning had some glitches as well :-)
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08:54:16pamaurywodz: good question, let me check the code ;)
08:55:05pamaurynote though that you can always split the clock analyser into one for imx233 and one for rk27xx, the code will pick the right one automatically
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08:55:34pamauryin SupportSoc() you can check the soc name and return true if the analyser supports it
08:56:32pamauryand in the analyser itself, you have access to a SocRef which points to a soc_t so you can get the soc name and do a different analysis depending on the soc
08:57:51pamauryat the moment the analyser in qeditor are a bit of a mess
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08:58:08pamauryI had plans to write a generic clock analyser to abstract the generic part, but never did it
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08:59:07pamaurybut basically what you can do is modify ClockAnalyser::SupportSoc() to return true for rk27xx
08:59:47pamauryrename ClockAnalyser::FillTree() to FillTreeIMX233
08:59:52pamauryimplement your FillTreeRK27XX
09:00:34pamauryand in the ctor, do something like if(soc.GetSoc().name == "imx233") FillTreeIMX233() else if(soc.GetSoc().name == "rk27xx") FillTreeRK27XX()
09:01:00wodzpamaury: ok, thanks
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09:02:25pamaurywodz: feel free to enhance the AddClock function if you need more features, but avoid creating a new one ;)
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09:03:54wodzpamaury: I must say that with SoC desc editor and hwstub support qeditor is tremendously useful software
09:04:37pamauryI'm glad you appreciate it, I spent a lot of time on it and it was very useful for me too
09:04:38pamaurystill is
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11:03:29foolshFor anyone who dislikes Gerrits code browser, Over at I've indexed and set up a repo browser so you can use the drop down "Branch" menu and find the Patch set of the Gerrit Task you wish to examine, and then click "View Differences" at the bottom of the screen for a unified view of changes on one page. Anyone is welcome to use it
11:04:50foolshIts not terribly fast but also not terribly slow
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11:16:45gevaertsfoolsh: the other way of course is to ask gitweb about it, but that's manual work
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11:37:08foolshgevaerts do you mind looking at something? And letting me know, if you know, why my "#ifndef WINCE" is seemingly ignored when I compile? errno.h is unavailable in wince, so there has been some effort to "virtually delete" it, but apps/misc.c keeps erroring out looking for it when I run make
11:38:46gevaertsfoolsh: where is WINCE defined?
11:39:28foolshin firmware/export/config/sdlappwince.h
11:39:55gevaertsAh, yes
11:40:30*gevaerts doesn't see what's going on right away
11:40:38gevaertsWouldn't it be easier to fake errno though?
11:41:13gevaertsAdd an errno.h somewhere, only add it to your include path for wince, have it have extern int errno, and provide the int errno somewhere?
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11:43:16foolshI'd have to patch the toolchain, there was an effort on the cegcc developers side to "virtually" remove it with "#ifdef __COREDLL__" the toolschain is riddled with it
11:43:51foolshI thought it may be the way I invoke the compiler, wasn't sure
11:43:57foolshbut thanks
11:44:20gevaertsWhy would you have to patch the toolchain?
11:46:16foolsh#include <errno.h> was "virtually removed" from the toolchain along with <signal.h> by wrapping them in #ifdef __COREDLL_ which when I define gives me even more trouble
11:47:14*gevaerts isn't sure what that means
11:49:13foolshHmm, instead of deleting form the mingw32ce tools #include <errno.h>" they wrapped it in an #ifdef so that it's still there for the mingw32 guys but not for the mingw32ce users if that makes sense
11:50:50gevaertsWhat actually happens if you include errno.h?
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11:57:19foolsh/usr/local/lib/gcc/arm-mingw32ce/4.4.0/../../../../arm-mingw32ce/include/errno.h:12:25: error: no include path in which to search for errno.h
11:57:56gevaertsLooks like a fun one :)
11:58:22gevaertsCan you have your own errno.h somewhere, or does include order make that impossible?
11:59:21foolshDidn;t think about that was trying to emulate the way the toolchain was doing things I'd have to include signal.h as well
12:00:29foolshShold they go in rockbox/firmware/include ?
12:02:49gevaertsI'd say a specific directory somewhere. We have an errno.h in firmware/libc/include/errno.h for native targets, and we do want the system one on most hosted targets, so yours is really *only* for wince
12:03:01gevaertsWe don't want it by accident elsewhere :)
12:04:18*Bunders is just going to photograph his board, not scan it.
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12:30:38jhMikeSgevaerts: really we should use the system errno.h at all times on a hosted target, even if using our own C lib
12:30:57gevaertsjhMikeS: this particular case doesn't have a system errno.h
12:31:18gevaertsSo the choice is between using a fake one or #ifdeffing *all* errno uses
12:32:13foolshright up into the toolchain, and I went that route once... it was nasty... started over at that point
12:32:18jhMikeSweird that mingw wouldn't have it; if we use ours then any host calls that set it for our calls would produce inconsistent results
12:33:01jhMikeSbesides, it needs to be saved as context for our fibers
12:40:03foolshI can explicitly tell it to use firmware/libc/include/errno.h with an ifdef I assume? its just a simple header file right?
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12:41:39foolshOr I may examine the use of the old arm-wince-cegcc toolschain where it's reported to work, but its rather old.
12:41:42jhMikeSwell then alot of shit ain't gonna work
12:42:03foolshTell me about it
12:42:17jhMikeSI mean it's actually used and expected to return valid codes, more now than ever
12:44:21*foolsh takes a few steps back to the first square he started on... again
12:44:57jhMikeSmingw is crap and I hated dealing with it
12:46:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:48:19jhMikeSso much workaround
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20:00:18wodzpamaury: (log) I am almost done with implementing clock analyzer for rk27xx. I'll put the patch on gerrit when finished.
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22:01:33sgkAnyone here?
22:02:04ZincAlloyyup, just ask and wait until someone who knows the answer finds the time to help you :)
22:05:10 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:12:47sgkOkay, so I recently got a clip+ with rockbox and it’s great but I’m trying to decide if I should buy a faster microsd card. My clip+ unfortunately has the buzzing noise every time it scans the database, so I was thinking that getting a card with faster read/write will reduce the duration of buzzing. I have about 30gb of music on my current sd card so it takes a bit of time to scan through it all. My current card is class 4 and has 10/5 read and write. I’m loo
22:12:48sgkat buying a 64gb sdxc and formatting it to fat32. Will upgrading to 80/50 read write significantly increase database scanning speed?
22:13:12[Saint]I wanted to avoid it, but, do I /really/ need to put "Don't ask to ask, etc." in the topic?
22:13:42*gevaerts isn't convinced that the SD controller in the clip+ can actually reach those fast speeds
22:13:50[Saint]^ this
22:14:04gevaertsI don't know though
22:14:04[Saint]I doubt there'll be any demonstrable difference at all
22:14:47copperI know the Fuze+ can't
22:15:09[Saint]The UHS cards are _absolute_ overkill.
22:15:26copperthe Fuze+ would max out at about 4-5 MB/s, though I can't remember if pamaury managed to get the full 8-10 MB/s out of it
22:15:52[Saint]ragardless, there's no way its doing 80/50 ;)
22:15:56fs-bluebotGerrit review #80 at : skin engine: New logical 'and' and 'or' tags to evaluate multiple tags in a single... by Jonathan Gordon
22:16:16[Saint]bluebrother^: cute parse error ;)^
22:18:04[Saint]The SoC (CPU access) is the noisey bugger on these devices, isn't it? Or does it vary?
22:18:20sgkOkay, thank you for the answer Saint. And sorry, about asking. This is the first time I’m using an irc client so I wasn’t sure if no one was talking or I connected improperly.
22:18:31[Saint]I recall mine has an obvious interference on boosting, but nothing I've noticed with sd IO.
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22:19:29[Saint]Getting a faster card will benefit you if you have a UHS enabled card reader (ie. not the Clip), when transferring media, but I doubt it will help in any noticeable way with your issue.
22:20:29[Saint]If you want a high capacity microSD card, its pretty difficult to avoid UHS, and that's fine, but the device will see no benefit from these write speeds it can't dream of approaching.
22:21:31sgkI see. I guess I should just open the music files I want instead of opening up the database.
22:22:31[Saint]filescan should be taking a matter of seconds at boot time.
22:22:48[Saint]after that, accesing the Database should be essentially free on flash targets.
22:23:58[Saint]Unrelated to the above discussion: Does anyone know who removed TAGCACHE_RAM, and..why?
22:24:21[Saint]I have a funny feeling it was jhMikeS, but I'm not committed to saying so absolutely just yet.
22:25:05[Saint]Yes, the WIP filesystem code *is* faster...but no so much so that we can cut out TAGCACHE_RAM without having a discussion about it.
22:25:44[Saint]I guess I need to go into blame assigning mode when I get home.
22:25:59[Saint]Someone done goofed.
22:31:27sgkIn that case, I think I should disable idle poweroff. Hopefully that will fix my issue. Thanks.
22:32:01[Saint]How so?
22:32:51[Saint]From what you've described, you'll hit this issue whenever you hit the disk, its kinda unavoidable.
22:32:56[Saint]It rather sounds like poorly paired headphones, or overly sensitive ones.
22:33:00sgkI felt that my clip+ was rescanning my database all the time
22:33:18sgki only really noticed the buzzing when it was scanning through my sd card
22:33:26[Saint]Nah. It'll only do this if you tell it to.
22:33:41[Saint]At boot, it'll check for new media to add...but that's it.
22:33:57[Saint](and only then if autoscan is enabled in the db)
22:35:07[Saint]When playing audio, of course, it needs to regularly access the filesystem in order to refresh the audio buffer.
22:35:26[Saint]And that's absolutely unavoidable.
22:36:26[Saint]The default theme will provide a very clear indication as to whether or not we're currently accessing the disk - other themes I can't speak for.
22:37:01[Saint](any theme that uses the built-in ststusbar will, though)
22:37:07sgkIs the disc access icon on the top right of the screen?
22:37:31sgkOkay. I’ll have to check again when I get home.
22:38:07copperFYI, the Fuze+ doesn't produce that noise
22:38:13copperdunno about the Clip Zip
22:38:19sgkIt’s strange because I only notice the buzzing when it was scanning the database
22:38:32copperbecause no music was playing
22:38:41copperyou can hear it too when starting a song that starts with silence
22:38:59[Saint]understandable. its lots of filesystem access, likely with a boosted CPU, with no audio playing.
22:39:22copperI thought the Clip+ doesn't "unboost"
22:39:38copperthat Rockbox doesn't unboost the CPU on the Clip+
22:40:00copperi.e. the CPU on the Clip+ is always boosted?
22:40:05[Saint]Yeah, that's why I was being a bit vague there - I'm not sure which AMS variant(s) it is that don't scale.
22:41:19[Saint]That might be fun to look at again. If I can find a couple of devices for cheap.
22:41:20sgkIf that’s the case copper, I’m going to try and return my clip+ and get a fuze+.
22:41:59coppersgk: the Fuze+ has slight hiss that's audible with sensitive IEMs though
22:42:11[Saint]hah - slight.
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22:42:19[Saint]funny definition of slight. ;)
22:42:31[Saint]Its awful.
22:42:44copperdepends with what IEMs
22:43:23copperwhat's the sensitivity of your IEMs? Aren't those CIEMs? Those are usually very sensitive.
22:43:43sgkI have yamaha eph-100’s. I’m not sure if they are that sensitive.
22:43:51copperalso, the hiss gets more audible as your IEM isolation increases
22:44:22[Saint]They're 21 Ohm IIRC.
22:44:43[Saint]20~19000Hz, I believe?
22:45:02copperwhat does it matter?
22:45:19copperthat's not sensitivity
22:46:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:46:37[Saint]yeah - sorry, output stream of consciousness while I think. Somewhere in the order of 111dB@1kHz
22:46:47copperthey're rated at 104 dB/mW, or 122 dB/V
22:46:52copperthat's very sensitive
22:47:17copperso yeah, the hiss will likely be audible
22:48:07[Saint]like there's a snake in your brain.
22:48:12sgkOh man.. So which player do you guys recommend?
22:48:18coppersadly I don't know of another Rockbox DAP that would work well with those
22:48:27sgkAll I need is something with expandable memory.
22:48:41copperthey're very low impedance (16 ohms), which requires a device with an output impedance of 2 ohms or less
22:48:47*[Saint] points out that his IEMs are ridiculously sensitive audio engineer/recording artist quality
22:48:56copperthe Classic is pretty much silent, but it's 5.5 ohms
22:48:59[Saint]not really a real-world scenario.
22:49:13copper[Saint]: and with very high isolation from outside noise
22:49:42coppersgk: you can find cheap Fuze+ refurbs on eBay
22:50:32FauxIt's not like the fuze+ is expensive to start with. He says, trying to fix his fuze+ because he needs it before shipping times.
22:51:01copperthe Fuze+ is quite expensive when sold new
22:51:09copperwell, relatively
22:51:17[Saint]for what it is, yes.
22:51:21FauxI guess I bought my first years after it was released.
22:51:28coppereven now
22:51:32copperand possibly more so now
22:52:09sgkI found one for $35, which is the same as a new clip+
22:52:15FauxI would gladly pay £28 for a replacement instead of trying to get this one to charge. Oh, that claims refurb anyway.
22:52:22coppersgk: that's likely a refurb
22:52:36copperFaux: there you go
22:53:04sgkYeah. But I usually have no problems with manufacturer refurbs.
22:53:59copperyeah it's fine, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of it
22:55:45sgkSo if I go with the fuze+, I should probably use headphones?
22:56:06copperonly you can tell
22:56:17coppertry it with your IEMs first, if that's what you want to use
22:59:03sgksomeone from hydrogenaudio says that he can only hear the hiss on his IEMs when nothing’s playing so I still have hope.
22:59:46copperthat's me
23:00:16copper"nothing playing" means silence
23:00:37copperthere can be silence at the start of tracks, which is why you hear the Clip+ noise to begin with
23:03:57sgkSo is the hissing worse on the clip+ compared to the fuze+?
23:04:04copperthis is why high headphone / IEM sensitivity is a flaw rather than an advantage
23:04:17copperthe Clip+ doesn't hiss
23:04:25copperit's not the same kind of noise
23:05:03sgkWhat’s the difference in noise?
23:05:11copperhiss is white noise
23:05:25sgkThe problem I have with the clip+ is the high pitched squeal when the databse is scanning
23:05:34copperyes I know
23:05:47copperwhy do you care though?
23:06:24copperit's not playing music when it's scanning storage
23:06:50copperI'm not sure it's even scanning the database
23:07:09copperit's mostly annoying between tracks
23:07:41copperat least the Fuze+ hiss is constant
23:07:45sgkI was under the impression that the clip+ keeps scanning while it’s turned on
23:07:49copperand doesn't really stand out
23:08:00coppersgk: no, why would it do that?
23:08:15copperyou'll hear the Clip+ noise when it buffers songs
23:08:18sgkMaybe it was because my clip+ kept idling
23:08:40copperyou hear that noise while the Clip+ is idle?
23:09:07 Quit nk2032 ()
23:09:19sgkI press power to turn the screen back on and it starts scanning
23:09:42copperdoes it show the rockbox logo?
23:09:49gevaertsIsn't that display noise rather than sd noise then?
23:10:05gevaertsOr both?
23:10:10sgkno it just goes to the main menu
23:10:14 Quit lleeloo_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:10:16copperyou shouldn't need to press power to turn on the display
23:10:26copperany key will do
23:10:33copperany button*
23:10:50copperif other buttons don't turn on the display, it means that your Clip+ is turned off
23:11:41copper(shut down)
23:11:58sgkOkay, I see.
23:13:01sgkMaybe I was thinking it was scanning the database when it was just buffering the next song
23:13:05copperRockbox will scan storage on every bootup
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23:21:05[Franklin]saratoga: ping
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