#rockbox 2014-10-07

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#rockbox log for 2014-10-07

00:00:04	yuriks	I see. I spent some time reading the rockbox code to see how usb currently works, and also reading about USB and the USB spec
00:03:40	yuriks	I don't think I'm up to the task, however. But the noisyness of this laptops internal audio system inspired me to take a look :)
00:08:40	pamaury	if I have time I can try to have a look. The problem is that to start hacking on this you need to know many things: rockbox, USB, USB Audio, usb controller, it takes a lot of time
00:09:35	yuriks	yeah, I don't really know any of them :D (only hacked on some of the rockbox font code a long time ago)
00:10:25	pamaury	I see, well try poking at me regularly, you might suceed in making me write some code, if I have some free time
00:10:51	pamaury	I'm going to bed now
00:12:11	yuriks	hehe, wouldn't want to be a bother
00:12:11	yuriks	bye
00:12:30	mg_	yuriks: hah, well, it's a killer feature!
00:12:55	yuriks	mg_: would certainly make a very good and cheap DAC available
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00:16:26	mg_	yuriks: yeah. Not much in that price range that has such a compact body as a clip+, with a screen and all that jazz
00:16:58	mg_	and NwAvGuy rates it as a good DAC http://nwavguy.blogspot.ch/2011/02/sansa-clip-measured.html, and I guess he's the go-to guy for low-end DACs
00:22:13		Quit ender` (Quit: Space, the last best hope for peace. These are the voyages of the Millenium Falcon. Its five-year mission: to find technology to defeat the Goa'uld.)
00:24:17	[Saint]	I have a WooAudio WA7 Firefly
00:24:39	[Saint]	Bloody nice. But _waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay_ above the price range of any Clip variant.
00:24:53	[Saint]	And...most DAPs in general, actually.
00:25:21	copper	you're such a big fat audiophile!
00:25:50	[Saint]	Thankfully I didn't pay anywhere near the RRP and got it for about $200 as an ex demo model from Bob Brown's audio.
00:26:34	[Saint]	I seem to recall the RRP being somewhere in the vicinity of $1200, plus an extra $200 for the vac tubes.
00:26:43	copper	needs moar Audeze
00:26:49	[Saint]	haha
00:28:06	[Saint]	I use the FiiO E12 almost exclusively, though. Not anywhere near as pretty as the WA7, but actually portable.
00:28:16	[Saint]	FOr varying definitions of portable, I suppose.
00:28:34	[Saint]	I do feel very self aware when carrying it.
00:28:44		Quit Makinit (Excess Flood)
00:29:11	[Saint]	Knowing that its essentially a high powered explosive device that often sits right near the base of my spine in my backpack makes me...uneasy.
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00:34:06	[Saint]	copper: if you want to /really/ hassle me about being a closeted audiophile, I'll volunteer some more information:
00:34:33	[Saint]	I found some Grado Labs SR80's at a pawn shop the other day for $40 :p
00:34:58	yuriks	man, you guys and your audiophilism
00:35:07	yuriks	the most audiophile things I have are a Xonar DG
00:35:17	yuriks	and $40 sony in-ears
00:35:56	[Saint]	The _most_ audiophile-esque item I posses is likely my UE18 Pros.
00:36:10	[Saint]	I absolutely couldn't live without them.
00:37:34	copper	blah Grado
00:38:25	[Saint]	c'mon...tell me you wouldn't have got them at $40.
00:38:36	[Saint]	They look badass.
00:38:42	copper	I've thought about it, but on-ear, and no bass
00:39:01	[Saint]	The bass response from the SR80 is actually bloody nice.
00:39:22	[Saint]	I was fairly surprised, considering the open design and relative simplicity of the drivers.
00:39:31	copper	http://outpost.fr/qS0 → headphone.com: (no title) \| Original URL: http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2881&graphID[]=353&scale=20
00:39:54	[Saint]	ERROR: Invalid Graph ID
00:40:07	copper	what link did you click?
00:40:11	copper	first one or second one?
00:40:22	[Saint]	Both.
00:40:30	copper	what
00:40:35	[Saint]	Ah. First one works now. Weird.
00:40:47	copper	your client probably cropped the second URL
00:40:52	copper	because of the square braces
00:41:01	copper	which is why I provided the first link
00:41:07	copper	short and parsable
00:41:45	[Saint]	Anyway, yeah, they bass on them isn't terrible. I mean, its not great, but its by no means terrible.
00:41:58	[Saint]	And the bonus is you get to look like a WWII coms man.
00:42:05	copper	no appeal to me
00:42:33	copper	I'll just get the new Bose QC25s whenever I can afford them
00:42:48	copper	they're a Sure Thing™
00:42:56	[Saint]	At $40 I couldn't not buy them. I suspect you'd be in a similar position, if not only to pass them on to someone who is interested, and make a reasonable profit.
00:43:41	scorche\|sh	hah - you laugh at Grado, but want Bose?
00:43:54	*	[Saint] didn't want to go there ;p
00:44:11	mg_	bose lol
00:44:30	scorche\|sh	though, i think we are in the wrong channel for this discussion...
00:44:59	copper	I don't laugh at Grado
00:45:22	copper	their headphones simply don't fit my tastes and needs
00:46:30	*	scorche\|sh pushes copper into -community
00:46:50	copper	thanks, but no thanks
00:47:56	scorche\|sh	...
01:00
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01:41:25	Pierluigi	just checked xrick in, if anyone could test it on a iriver h120 it would make my day (mind: SUBDIRS needs to be tweaked)
01:41:49	[Saint]	Pierluigi: are you aware of our simulator?
01:42:03	Pierluigi	eh yes sure
01:42:04	[Saint]	It is usually assumed the author will test on simulated targets.
01:42:09	Pierluigi	it works on sim
01:42:24	[Saint]	Then it'll almost certainly work on real hardware.
01:42:29	Pierluigi	but needs some proper test on hardware with diagonals and stuff
01:43:27	Pierluigi	also I didn't deliberately add keymappings for targets other than iriver/ipod cause I don't know what the real hardware can do and what button mappings are best
01:44:42	[Saint]	I think we might have some licensing issues here...
01:44:55	[Saint]	For example, who is "BigOrno"?
01:45:06	[Saint]	We're going to need a real name.
01:45:13	Pierluigi	bigorno is the nickname used by the original author of xrick
01:45:27	[Saint]	Right, we need a real name.
01:45:39	Pierluigi	hmm actually I need to add also readme to the check-in
01:46:25	Pierluigi	but dunno what's the usual place for that
01:47:26	Pierluigi	anyway if people comment the patch I can tweak things accordingly then
01:48:16	[Saint]	This is going to be problematic I believe. The author clearly states that anyone using the code must adhere to his license, but the license is hilariously vague, and makes a reference to the fact that it contains content that cannot be GPL'ed.
01:49:01	[Saint]	""in the spirit" of the GNU GPL" is really rather meaningless.
01:49:53	Pierluigi	saint you already discussed this yesterday I believe
01:50:11	Pierluigi	the game engine is partly BigOrno code and partly my code
01:50:24	Pierluigi	I've stripped out ALL hardcoded (read: copyrighted) data
01:51:07	Pierluigi	so his (and hence my) code is released AS IS, in the "spirit" of GPL
01:51:54	[Saint]	"in the spirit" on GPL won't cut it, sadly. It needs to be GPL.
01:52:41	[Saint]	It may be better to reimplement the sections writting by whomever BigOrno entirely.
01:52:47	[Saint]	*written
01:52:50	Pierluigi	now I agree that's terribly vague, but the port is there, done and working
01:53:16	[Saint]	Yes. But attribution is going to be problematic.
01:54:09	[Saint]	And you're correct, my apologies, I hadn't noticed the offending data had been stripped out.
01:56:11	[Saint]	If you are able to contact the original author, you may be able to ask them directly if adding their real name for the sake of licensing and attribution is something he or she would be willing to do.
01:56:37	[Saint]	If not, the only option available would be reimplementing all the sections attributed to him or her.
01:57:08	Pierluigi	yes, already contacted. He is willing to tweak the README, and I'm very happy for it to happen, but he's very busy atm
01:57:35	Pierluigi	that's out of the question
01:57:54	Pierluigi	so much code
01:58:13	[Saint]	Well, just so we're clear, one of those two things needs to happen.
01:58:52	Pierluigi	I understand
02:00
02:03:06	Pierluigi	well, I'll try to get in touch with him again, but please you main mantainers have a discussion about what is ABSOLUTELY needed licence-wise and post a comment in gerrit about specific changes that need to happen (both licence-wise and code-compliance wise)
02:04:37	[Saint]	The game data itself appears to be the main issue, and from your port, I can't immediately tell where its coming from.
02:04:50	[Saint]	ie. sounds, maps, sprites.
02:05:16	Pierluigi	game data you'll have to download a zip from my repo
02:07:30	[Saint]	The main issue at this point would be attribution then I believe.
02:09:47	[Saint]	But I really don't understand how the original licensing (and its vagueness) and the fact that it states in several places that the original license and notices _must_ be kept is going to affect us.
02:11:58	Pierluigi	I guess the README should just be kept in game own subdir and then comments will be in line with where the game sources are, so at that point it should be ok
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09:25:18	wodz	[Saint]: could you please retestg#949/2. I can't believe that changing while(); with do { if (!timeout) { panicf() } udelay(1); } while () breaks the driver.
09:25:22	fs-bluebot	3Gerrit review #949 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/949 : 3usb-designware: New USB driver for Synopsys DesignWare USB OTG core. by Michael Sparmann
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10:46:16	lebellium	did someone manage to catch jhMikeS recently?
10:46:47	lebellium	I suspect him to hide so that he doesn't have to work on a fix for our broken YP-R0 build :D
10:47:08	kugel	lebellium: should get my new r0 soon, will try to look at it then
10:47:23	lebellium	oh you bought a new one?
10:47:27	lebellium	that's great!
10:47:43	kugel	there was finally one on ebay
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11:32:46	*	jhMikeS has been sick as all hell lately from something brought back from the old folks' home and is recovering
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12:28:47	lebellium	saratoga: which commit does this correspond to: " 2014-09-28: Improved battery life on the Clip v2, Clip+, Clip Zip and Fuze v2"
12:28:49	lebellium	?
12:29:24	lebellium	I only see 23dc0b0 which is Clip Zip specific
12:35:16	wodz	lebellium: 02414bf286e4ff6a08d ?
12:35:49	lebellium	ah
12:35:52	lebellium	missed this one
12:35:54	lebellium	thanks
12:42:45	wodz	Actions OF has pretty interesting way of 'power off'. It loads small blob into iram and jumps there, then it disables sdram, most clocks and setup external interrupt
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12:49:28	wodz	on long play it setups watchdog and enters infinite loop to trigger reset
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14:31:25	pamaury	wodz:g#984 you can start testing it now
14:31:27	fs-bluebot	3Gerrit review #984 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/984 : 3qeditor: add register diff tab (WIP) by Amaury Pouly
14:31:48	pamaury	it is very basic, missing ton of stuff and is a bit ugly but it should work
14:31:48	wodz	pamaury: great!
14:33:22	pamaury	for information, there are a few things which are still WIP: being able to change color theme (default is blue for diff, red for error), also theming only apply to register tree at the moment but it will also apply to the panel soon. Also soc and dev panel will display the list of differences, and I will also add a checkbox to only display differences instead of everything
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16:11:37	lebellium	hum
16:11:46	lebellium	all manual download links are dead?
16:11:58	lebellium	I mean online manuals
16:12:02	copper	have been for a while
16:12:07	copper	PDF links should still work
16:13:21	lebellium	for a while?
16:13:27	lebellium	and not fixed?
16:13:31	copper	weeks, maybe months
16:13:39	lebellium	:S
16:13:43	copper	vOv
16:16:48	gevaerts	If you're a LaTeX expert, feel free to investigate :)
16:16:56	copper	sounds kinky
16:17:07	lebellium	of course I'm
16:18:14	lebellium	if LaTeX looks like the theme engine, maybe I can do something
16:18:16	lebellium	\o/
16:22:02	pixelma	well, maybe we (probably a Swede :\ ) could find out which tex package update broke it and downgrade on the daily build server for now?
16:25:46	pixelma	unfortunately there isn't even one of "the" Swedes around here at the moment
16:36:36	mg_	does rockbox do GSoC?
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16:41:41	pamaury	mg_: probably not
16:42:01	mg_	has the project ever done it?
16:43:13	pamaury	yes
16:43:19	pamaury	2 or 3 times
16:43:57	mg_	not much success?
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16:45:15	gevaerts	Mixed success. The main issue is that rockbox is seriously slowing down, and we don't easily have the necessary volunteers for GSoC
16:46:04	mg_	I understand. The pressure from smartphones I presume?
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16:47:12	gevaerts	Mostly. The standalone portable audio player isn't what it was
16:49:11	mg_	yeah...
16:50:53	mg_	I prefer having a seperate player and phone, but I guess I'm just preaching to the choir here
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17:03:16	pamaury	mg_: yeah, many people just use their smartphone for everything now
17:05:49	mg_	pamaury: so why are you holding on? :)
17:06:24	pamaury	first because I still like my mp3 players, and also because I like hacking ^^
17:06:35		Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
17:10:13	mg_	^^
17:18:46	mg_	well I guess standalone players is becoming more of a "audiophile" thing
17:23:56	drvink	i still have a separate player because i don't want to fill my phone's storage with mp3s
17:24:58	drvink	even android phones now often lack sd card slots (not that it matters to me, i have an iphone)
17:30:53	mg_	yeah.. gets worse if you use flac
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20:32:04	Dynion	@ copper, got me a clip+. You were right once more ;-)
20:32:19	Dynion	also, 72gb clip+ is kinda fun
20:32:19	copper	about what?
20:32:33	copper	yeah it's a nice player
20:32:36	Dynion	about 64gb
20:32:43	copper	I've thought for a long time that it was "too damn small"
20:32:44	Dynion	about it being not that much less than a classic
20:32:50	copper	but it's just really portable
20:34:01	Dynion	yup
20:34:07	Dynion	a lot better for cycling
20:34:21	Dynion	and a lot less stress on the jack port as the weight is close to 0g
20:34:41	Dynion	just having a little trouble with the bass, but i'm sure i'll figure it out
20:34:54	copper	there's bass boost in the sound settings
20:35:05	Dynion	i don't want it boosted
20:35:07	copper	or, the parametric EQ, if you feel adventurous and read the manual section about it
20:35:10	Dynion	i want it less littery
20:35:16	copper	"littery"?
20:35:22	Dynion	messy?
20:35:30	Dynion	littery is a word afaik
20:35:44	Dynion	disordered
20:35:47	Dynion	something like that
20:35:55	Dynion	it's not tight
20:38:48	copper	the Clip's frequency response is ruler flat
20:39:03	Dynion	i saw that, astonishing
20:39:05	copper	the bass it produces is exactly what's in the recording
20:39:33	copper	if you don't like what you hear, maybe it's the track you're listening to, or maybe your headphones
20:40:13	Dynion	well, currently i'm testing all the cool 24bit 192khz flacs on headphones for testing
20:40:14	Dynion	:p
20:40:33	Dynion	its possibly a bit too demanding, high and mids are lovely though
20:41:31	Dynion	also, very, very well done on the speed its loads big tracks like that
20:41:46	copper	high sampling rates and bit depth are useless for playback
20:42:06	Dynion	i defenitely hear it on my stereo set
20:42:09	copper	and Rockbox resamples it all to 16 bit / 44.1 kHz (or 48 kHz if you set it in the settings)
20:42:35	Dynion	definitely*
20:42:58	Dynion	no idea how it is on rockbox, they're my main test tracks for speakers
20:43:12	Dynion	so good reference for me:p
20:44:06	Dynion	you may be right though, i havent listened to these headphones in a while, lets try my iem's
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20:59:36	wodz	http://pastie.org/9628791#
21:00
21:00:04	wodz	guess what it actually does - CMU_DMACLK \|= 3;
21:01:17	wodz	two loads, two stores, two function calls jus to set two bits in memory mapped register
21:02:13	wodz	which compiler Actions used?
21:05:42		Quit megal0maniac (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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21:09:52	wodz	This two function called do similar things. This is incredible how inefficient this code is
21:12:33	*	foolsh wishes he knew more assembly
21:14:56	wodz	foolsh: thats easy enough - start reading dissasemblings :-)
21:27:14	ParkerR	Any progress on the Sport?
21:28:11	yuriks	not doable, afaik
21:29:48	wodz	yuriks: To be more exact we honestly don't know. The brief on Actions www suggest the SoC used has very tiny memory BUT this looks pretty strange considering relatively large color display.
21:30:31	yuriks	wodz: from the screenshots I've seen the display is large but pretty barebones detailwise, so it doesn't look like they have a lot to work with
21:31:06	wodz	yuriks: you need keep framebuffer somewhere still
21:31:46	yuriks	maybe the LCD controller has a builtin FB?
21:32:17	wodz	128x128x16bit is 32kB for framebuffer alone
21:32:43	wodz	yuriks: yes that is possible
21:33:44	wodz	I have never seen such lcd controller in consumer product though. SDRAM is way cheaper then dedicated sram in controller
21:35:17	wodz	It may be they used customized version of SoC with bigger builtin ram or they use paging
21:35:30	wodz	there are a few possibilities and we simply don't know
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21:35:52	yuriks	http://www.actions-semi.com/en/productview.aspx?cat=87&id=118
21:36:06	yuriks	judging from the RAM bank sizes there
21:36:07	foolsh	there was a lcd screen on a blog I read a few months ago touting its built in capabilities, but I'm probably way out in left field some where with this
21:36:40	yuriks	it sounds very possible they're dedicating two fo them to the FB
21:36:50	yuriks	it's not like the chip doesn't have RAM, it's just weirdly organized
21:38:23	yuriks	also, anyone have any clue what a BROM is?
21:38:47	wodz	boot rom
21:39:30	yuriks	ah
21:39:35	wodz	it used to be masked rom on other atj SoCs
21:40:59	yuriks	it would be possible to check feasibility if someone could get the firmware and descramble it
21:42:19	wodz	with mips 4k core you can circumvent wierd memory banks thanks to MMU but still described memory size is not even in hundreds of kBs
21:43:02	yuriks	and with me seeing pictures featuring graphical menus and cover art, it's a pretty sure bet that there's more RAM in there somewhere
21:43:41	wodz	its 127kB in total according to www
21:44:00	pamaury	wodz: virtually all smart lcd have a framebuffer
21:44:11	ParkerR	"smart lcd"?
21:44:28	ParkerR	Also the Zip (and I think Sport) are OLED :P
21:44:32	wodz	yuriks: that is what I said
21:44:35	pamaury	lcd with a controller
21:44:41	ParkerR	Ahh
21:44:47	yuriks	wodz: yup
21:45:26	pamaury	as long as you don't run it in VSYNC or DOTCLK mode, you don't need a framebuffer in memory
21:45:29	wodz	pamaury: yes but usually this is not true framebuffer (from the point of the software) - just some internal memory you can push data to through fifo
21:45:51	pamaury	you can read/write it in a random access fashion
21:45:55	pamaury	although it's damn slow
21:46:25	wodz	pamaury: the read part is usually omitted
21:47:30	wodz	you can simulate this to some degree with windowing functions and hw alpha support though
21:47:39	pamaury	well, I admit it's true the read signal is hardly ever wired, but it is the case in a few cases, like the fuze+
21:47:52	wodz	lucky you!
21:48:17	pamaury	and it's used to read the controller ID to distinguish the LCD type
21:48:37	wodz	Internal (16K+12K)*8 BROM built in boot up and USB Upgrade firmware and C-library
21:48:51	wodz	the last part is pretty peculiar
21:49:10	pamaury	indeed that's very small
21:49:25	wodz	I mean C-library part
21:49:44	pamaury	but why a C library in ROM ?!
21:49:55	wodz	to save space in ram
21:50:31	wodz	and build illusion you have all building blocks in place (hw drivers wrapped in some api)
21:51:18	pamaury	anyway, with this small amount of RAM you either have a trivial firmware or use paging
21:51:36	yuriks	the firmware update file has ~uniform entropy :P
21:52:05	pamaury	does it have a DSP ?
21:52:06	yuriks	stupid scrambled images
21:52:10	yuriks	pamaury: it does
21:52:31	yuriks	you can remap RAM between the MCU/DSP, acoording to the product page
21:52:53	wodz	yuriks: You can actually decrypt the firmware update file with descrambler in our repo. The tool doesn't understand the format of decoded binary though
21:53:28	yuriks	wodz: I was trying to look for that. I can't get my away around the buildsystem or finding anything in the repo :\|
21:53:50	yuriks	I'm trying to read some code I resorted to mangling the output of make to figure out what files are being included in the build :P
21:54:12	wodz	rockbox/utils/atj2137/atjboottool
21:54:35	wodz	thats the tool
21:54:36	pamaury	cd utils/atj2138/atjboottool; make
21:55:14	pamaury	wodz: by the way, I don't remember, does it correctly descramble everything or are there still some unknown bits ?
21:55:59	yuriks	ah, it's specific to the thing, not a generic one
21:56:06	*	yuriks has to go to work
21:56:28	pamaury	yeah, we have many specific descrambles/tools in utils/
21:56:35	wodz	pamaury: The descrambling goes fine (well I can't remember if the trailing bytes are cut off or not). It is just that descrambled binary is further packed/scrambled/crypted
21:57:33	pamaury	can you disassemble it or is it scrambled ?
21:58:01		Quit y4n (Quit: PANTS OFF!)
21:58:34	pamaury	you talked about finding the lcd routine so you must have the code somehow
21:58:56	wodz	strings doesn't return anything useful so I suspect it to be further scrambled
21:59:19	wodz	pamaury: I was talking about e150 not clip sport (re lcd init)
21:59:29	pamaury	ah yeah
22:00
22:00:45	pamaury	we would need access to the ROM and dump it, if it can do firmware upgrade
22:02:59	wodz	That should be possible. If we are lucky enough adfu mode should be similar to s1mp3 and atj213x. The nand data pins needs to be shorted to force flash fault which should expose rom adfu
22:03:47	wodz	clip sport has jtag pins on PCB which makes another attack vector
22:03:56	pamaury	yeah, that's worth trying once we have working hwstub on atj213x
22:04:21	pamaury	jtag is nice if it's not disabled or crypted
22:04:30	wodz	pamaury: to dump rom you don't need hwstub. adfu can read arbitrary memory
22:04:44	pamaury	oh really ?
22:05:03	wodz	yeah, thats how I dumped atj2135's rom
22:05:23	pamaury	you should buy a sport and try it ! :p
22:05:43	wodz	could be fun but I really don't have time
22:06:18	pamaury	I have found a player with a new rockchip chip: RKNano-C
22:06:35	pamaury	I would like to resume my work on the rknano but I don't have the time either
22:07:20	pamaury	did you try qeditor's diff btw ?
22:08:07	wodz	pamaury: no - I am exploring my new findings in e150 OF
22:09:51	pamaury	the problem on rknano-b is that the usb driver is not working, although it's supposed to be a synopsys
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22:23:11	yuriks	pamaury: surely you have time to work on isochronous USB? :D
22:23:37	pamaury	this is one is either: the code is already written, mostly
22:23:41	pamaury	*easier
22:26:06	*	pamaury is going to bed
22:26:32	yuriks	night
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