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#rockbox log for 2014-10-07

00:00:04yuriksI see. I spent some time reading the rockbox code to see how usb currently works, and also reading about USB and the USB spec
00:03:40yuriksI don't think I'm up to the task, however. But the noisyness of this laptops internal audio system inspired me to take a look :)
00:08:40pamauryif I have time I can try to have a look. The problem is that to start hacking on this you need to know many things: rockbox, USB, USB Audio, usb controller, it takes a lot of time
00:09:35yuriksyeah, I don't really know any of them :D (only hacked on some of the rockbox font code a long time ago)
00:10:25pamauryI see, well try poking at me regularly, you might suceed in making me write some code, if I have some free time
00:10:51pamauryI'm going to bed now
00:12:11yurikshehe, wouldn't want to be a bother
00:12:30mg_yuriks: hah, well, it's a killer feature!
00:12:55yuriksmg_: would certainly make a very good and cheap DAC available
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00:16:26mg_yuriks: yeah. Not much in that price range that has such a compact body as a clip+, with a screen and all that jazz
00:16:58mg_and NwAvGuy rates it as a good DAC, and I guess he's the go-to guy for low-end DACs
00:22:13 Quit ender` (Quit: Space, the last best hope for peace. These are the voyages of the Millenium Falcon. Its five-year mission: to find technology to defeat the Goa'uld.)
00:24:17[Saint]I have a WooAudio WA7 Firefly
00:24:39[Saint]Bloody nice. But _waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay_ above the price range of any Clip variant.
00:24:53[Saint]And...most DAPs in general, actually.
00:25:21copperyou're such a big fat audiophile!
00:25:50[Saint]Thankfully I didn't pay anywhere near the RRP and got it for about $200 as an ex demo model from Bob Brown's audio.
00:26:34[Saint]I seem to recall the RRP being somewhere in the vicinity of $1200, plus an extra $200 for the vac tubes.
00:26:43copperneeds moar Audeze
00:28:06[Saint]I use the FiiO E12 almost exclusively, though. Not anywhere near as pretty as the WA7, but actually portable.
00:28:16[Saint]FOr varying definitions of portable, I suppose.
00:28:34[Saint]I do feel very self aware when carrying it.
00:28:44 Quit Makinit (Excess Flood)
00:29:11[Saint]Knowing that its essentially a high powered explosive device that often sits right near the base of my spine in my backpack makes me...uneasy.
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00:34:06[Saint]copper: if you want to /really/ hassle me about being a closeted audiophile, I'll volunteer some more information:
00:34:33[Saint]I found some Grado Labs SR80's at a pawn shop the other day for $40 :p
00:34:58yuriksman, you guys and your audiophilism
00:35:07yuriksthe most audiophile things I have are a Xonar DG
00:35:17yuriksand $40 sony in-ears
00:35:56[Saint]The _most_ audiophile-esque item I posses is likely my UE18 Pros.
00:36:10[Saint]I absolutely couldn't live without them.
00:37:34copperblah Grado
00:38:25[Saint]c'mon...tell me you wouldn't have got them at $40.
00:38:36[Saint]They look badass.
00:38:42copperI've thought about it, but on-ear, and no bass
00:39:01[Saint]The bass response from the SR80 is actually bloody nice.
00:39:22[Saint]I was fairly surprised, considering the open design and relative simplicity of the drivers.
00:39:31copper → (no title) | Original URL:[]=2881&graphID[]=353&scale=20
00:39:54[Saint]ERROR: Invalid Graph ID
00:40:07copperwhat link did you click?
00:40:11copperfirst one or second one?
00:40:35[Saint]Ah. First one works now. Weird.
00:40:47copperyour client probably cropped the second URL
00:40:52copperbecause of the square braces
00:41:01copperwhich is why I provided the first link
00:41:07coppershort and parsable
00:41:45[Saint]Anyway, yeah, they bass on them isn't terrible. I mean, its not great, but its by no means terrible.
00:41:58[Saint]And the bonus is you get to look like a WWII coms man.
00:42:05copperno appeal to me
00:42:33copperI'll just get the new Bose QC25s whenever I can afford them
00:42:48copperthey're a Sure Thing™
00:42:56[Saint]At $40 I couldn't not buy them. I suspect you'd be in a similar position, if not only to pass them on to someone who is interested, and make a reasonable profit.
00:43:41scorche|shhah - you laugh at Grado, but want Bose?
00:43:54*[Saint] didn't want to go there ;p
00:44:11mg_bose lol
00:44:30scorche|shthough, i think we are in the wrong channel for this discussion...
00:44:59copperI don't laugh at Grado
00:45:22coppertheir headphones simply don't fit my tastes and needs
00:46:30*scorche|sh pushes copper into -community
00:46:50copperthanks, but no thanks
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01:35:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:41:25Pierluigijust checked xrick in, if anyone could test it on a iriver h120 it would make my day (mind: SUBDIRS needs to be tweaked)
01:41:49[Saint]Pierluigi: are you aware of our simulator?
01:42:03Pierluigieh yes sure
01:42:04[Saint]It is usually assumed the author will test on simulated targets.
01:42:09Pierluigiit works on sim
01:42:24[Saint]Then it'll almost certainly work on real hardware.
01:42:29Pierluigibut needs some proper test on hardware with diagonals and stuff
01:43:27Pierluigialso I didn't deliberately add keymappings for targets other than iriver/ipod cause I don't know what the real hardware can do and what button mappings are best
01:44:42[Saint]I think we might have some licensing issues here...
01:44:55[Saint]For example, who is "BigOrno"?
01:45:06[Saint]We're going to need a real name.
01:45:13Pierluigibigorno is the nickname used by the original author of xrick
01:45:27[Saint]Right, we need a real name.
01:45:39Pierluigihmm actually I need to add also readme to the check-in
01:46:25Pierluigibut dunno what's the usual place for that
01:47:26Pierluigianyway if people comment the patch I can tweak things accordingly then
01:48:16[Saint]This is going to be problematic I believe. The author clearly states that anyone using the code must adhere to his license, but the license is *hilariously* vague, and makes a reference to the fact that it contains content that cannot be GPL'ed.
01:49:01[Saint]""in the spirit" of the GNU GPL" is really rather meaningless.
01:49:53Pierluigisaint you already discussed this yesterday I believe
01:50:11Pierluigithe game engine is partly BigOrno code and partly my code
01:50:24PierluigiI've stripped out ALL hardcoded (read: copyrighted) data
01:51:07Pierluigiso his (and hence my) code is released AS IS, in the "spirit" of GPL
01:51:54[Saint]"in the spirit" on GPL won't cut it, sadly. It needs to be GPL.
01:52:41[Saint]It may be better to reimplement the sections writting by whomever BigOrno entirely.
01:52:50Pierluiginow I agree that's terribly vague, but the port is there, done and working
01:53:16[Saint]Yes. But attribution is going to be problematic.
01:54:09[Saint]And you're correct, my apologies, I hadn't noticed the offending data had been stripped out.
01:56:11[Saint]If you are able to contact the original author, you may be able to ask them directly if adding their real name for the sake of licensing and attribution is something he or she would be willing to do.
01:56:37[Saint]If not, the only option available would be reimplementing all the sections attributed to him or her.
01:57:08Pierluigiyes, already contacted. He is willing to tweak the README, and I'm very happy for it to happen, but he's very busy atm
01:57:35Pierluigithat's out of the question
01:57:54Pierluigiso much code
01:58:13[Saint]Well, just so we're clear, one of those two things needs to happen.
01:58:52PierluigiI understand
02:03:06Pierluigiwell, I'll try to get in touch with him again, but please you main mantainers have a discussion about what is ABSOLUTELY needed licence-wise and post a comment in gerrit about specific changes that need to happen (both licence-wise and code-compliance wise)
02:04:37[Saint]The game data itself appears to be the main issue, and from your port, I can't immediately tell where its coming from.
02:04:50[Saint]ie. sounds, maps, sprites.
02:05:16Pierluigigame data you'll have to download a zip from my repo
02:07:30[Saint]The main issue at this point would be attribution then I believe.
02:09:47[Saint]But I really don't understand how the original licensing (and its vagueness) and the fact that it states in several places that the original license and notices _must_ be kept is going to affect us.
02:11:58PierluigiI guess the README should just be kept in game own subdir and then comments will be in line with where the game sources are, so at that point it should be ok
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09:25:18wodz[Saint]: could you please retest g#949/2. I can't believe that changing while(); with do { if (!timeout) { panicf() } udelay(1); } while () breaks the driver.
09:25:22fs-bluebotGerrit review #949 at : usb-designware: New USB driver for Synopsys DesignWare USB OTG core. by Michael Sparmann
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10:46:16lebelliumdid someone manage to catch jhMikeS recently?
10:46:47lebelliumI suspect him to hide so that he doesn't have to work on a fix for our broken YP-R0 build :D
10:47:08kugellebellium: should get my new r0 soon, will try to look at it then
10:47:23lebelliumoh you bought a new one?
10:47:27lebelliumthat's great!
10:47:43kugelthere was finally one on ebay
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11:32:46*jhMikeS has been sick as all hell lately from something brought back from the old folks' home and is recovering
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12:28:47lebelliumsaratoga: which commit does this correspond to: " 2014-09-28: Improved battery life on the Clip v2, Clip+, Clip Zip and Fuze v2"
12:29:24lebelliumI only see 23dc0b0 which is Clip Zip specific
12:35:16wodzlebellium: 02414bf286e4ff6a08d ?
12:35:52lebelliummissed this one
12:42:45wodzActions OF has pretty interesting way of 'power off'. It loads small blob into iram and jumps there, then it disables sdram, most clocks and setup external interrupt
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12:49:28wodzon long play it setups watchdog and enters infinite loop to trigger reset
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14:31:25pamaurywodz: g#984 you can start testing it now
14:31:27fs-bluebotGerrit review #984 at : qeditor: add register diff tab (WIP) by Amaury Pouly
14:31:48pamauryit is very basic, missing ton of stuff and is a bit ugly but it should work
14:31:48wodzpamaury: great!
14:33:22pamauryfor information, there are a few things which are still WIP: being able to change color theme (default is blue for diff, red for error), also theming only apply to register tree at the moment but it will also apply to the panel soon. Also soc and dev panel will display the list of differences, and I will also add a checkbox to only display differences instead of everything
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16:11:46lebelliumall manual download links are dead?
16:11:58lebelliumI mean online manuals
16:12:02copperhave been for a while
16:12:07copperPDF links should still work
16:13:21lebelliumfor a while?
16:13:27lebelliumand not fixed?
16:13:31copperweeks, maybe months
16:16:48gevaertsIf you're a LaTeX expert, feel free to investigate :)
16:16:56coppersounds kinky
16:17:07lebelliumof course I'm
16:18:14lebelliumif LaTeX looks like the theme engine, maybe I can do something
16:22:02pixelmawell, maybe we (probably a Swede :\ ) could find out which tex package update broke it and downgrade on the daily build server for now?
16:25:46pixelmaunfortunately there isn't even one of "the" Swedes around here at the moment
16:36:36mg_does rockbox do GSoC?
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16:41:41pamaurymg_: probably not
16:42:01mg_has the project ever done it?
16:43:19pamaury2 or 3 times
16:43:57mg_not much success?
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16:45:15gevaertsMixed success. The main issue is that rockbox is seriously slowing down, and we don't easily have the necessary volunteers for GSoC
16:46:04mg_I understand. The pressure from smartphones I presume?
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16:47:12gevaertsMostly. The standalone portable audio player isn't what it was
16:50:53mg_I prefer having a seperate player and phone, but I guess I'm just preaching to the choir here
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17:03:16pamaurymg_: yeah, many people just use their smartphone for everything now
17:05:49mg_pamaury: so why are you holding on? :)
17:06:24pamauryfirst because I still like my mp3 players, and also because I like hacking ^^
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17:18:46mg_well I guess standalone players is becoming more of a "audiophile" thing
17:23:56drvinki still have a separate player because i don't want to fill my phone's storage with mp3s
17:24:58drvinkeven android phones now often lack sd card slots (not that it matters to me, i have an iphone)
17:30:53mg_yeah.. gets worse if you use flac
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20:32:04Dynion@ copper, got me a clip+. You were right once more ;-)
20:32:19Dynionalso, 72gb clip+ is kinda fun
20:32:19copperabout what?
20:32:33copperyeah it's a nice player
20:32:36Dynionabout 64gb
20:32:43copperI've thought for a long time that it was "too damn small"
20:32:44Dynionabout it being not that much less than a classic
20:32:50copperbut it's just really portable
20:34:07Dyniona lot better for cycling
20:34:21Dynionand a lot less stress on the jack port as the weight is close to 0g
20:34:41Dynionjust having a little trouble with the bass, but i'm sure i'll figure it out
20:34:54copperthere's bass boost in the sound settings
20:35:05Dynioni don't want it boosted
20:35:07copperor, the parametric EQ, if you feel adventurous and read the manual section about it
20:35:10Dynioni want it less littery
20:35:30Dynionlittery is a word afaik
20:35:47Dynionsomething like that
20:35:55Dynionit's not tight
20:38:48copperthe Clip's frequency response is ruler flat
20:39:03Dynioni saw that, astonishing
20:39:05copperthe bass it produces is exactly what's in the recording
20:39:33copperif you don't like what you hear, maybe it's the track you're listening to, or maybe your headphones
20:40:13Dynionwell, currently i'm testing all the cool 24bit 192khz flacs on headphones for testing
20:40:33Dynionits possibly a bit too demanding, high and mids are lovely though
20:41:31Dynionalso, very, very well done on the speed its loads big tracks like that
20:41:46copperhigh sampling rates and bit depth are useless for playback
20:42:06Dynioni defenitely hear it on my stereo set
20:42:09copperand Rockbox resamples it all to 16 bit / 44.1 kHz (or 48 kHz if you set it in the settings)
20:42:58Dynionno idea how it is on rockbox, they're my main test tracks for speakers
20:43:12Dynionso good reference for me:p
20:44:06Dynionyou may be right though, i havent listened to these headphones in a while, lets try my iem's
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21:00:04wodzguess what it actually does - CMU_DMACLK |= 3;
21:01:17wodztwo loads, two stores, two function calls jus to set two bits in memory mapped register
21:02:13wodzwhich compiler Actions used?
21:05:42 Quit megal0maniac (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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21:09:52wodzThis two function called do similar things. This is incredible how inefficient this code is
21:12:33*foolsh wishes he knew more assembly
21:14:56wodzfoolsh: thats easy enough - start reading dissasemblings :-)
21:27:14ParkerRAny progress on the Sport?
21:28:11yuriksnot doable, afaik
21:29:48wodzyuriks: To be more exact we honestly don't know. The brief on Actions www suggest the SoC used has very tiny memory BUT this looks pretty strange considering relatively large color display.
21:30:31yurikswodz: from the screenshots I've seen the display is large but pretty barebones detailwise, so it doesn't look like they have a lot to work with
21:31:06wodzyuriks: you need keep framebuffer somewhere still
21:31:46yuriksmaybe the LCD controller has a builtin FB?
21:32:17wodz128x128x16bit is 32kB for framebuffer alone
21:32:43wodzyuriks: yes that is possible
21:33:44wodzI have never seen such lcd controller in consumer product though. SDRAM is way cheaper then dedicated sram in controller
21:35:17wodzIt may be they used customized version of SoC with bigger builtin ram or they use paging
21:35:30wodzthere are a few possibilities and we simply don't know
21:35:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:36:06yuriksjudging from the RAM bank sizes there
21:36:07foolshthere was a lcd screen on a blog I read a few months ago touting its built in capabilities, but I'm probably way out in left field some where with this
21:36:40yuriksit sounds very possible they're dedicating two fo them to the FB
21:36:50yuriksit's not like the chip doesn't have RAM, it's just weirdly organized
21:38:23yuriksalso, anyone have any clue what a BROM is?
21:38:47wodzboot rom
21:39:35wodzit used to be masked rom on other atj SoCs
21:40:59yuriksit would be possible to check feasibility if someone could get the firmware and descramble it
21:42:19wodzwith mips 4k core you can circumvent wierd memory banks thanks to MMU but still described memory size is not even in hundreds of kBs
21:43:02yuriksand with me seeing pictures featuring graphical menus and cover art, it's a pretty sure bet that there's more RAM in there somewhere
21:43:41wodzits 127kB in total according to www
21:44:00pamaurywodz: virtually all smart lcd have a framebuffer
21:44:11ParkerR"smart lcd"?
21:44:28ParkerRAlso the Zip (and I think Sport) are OLED :P
21:44:32wodzyuriks: that is what I said
21:44:35pamaurylcd with a controller
21:44:47yurikswodz: yup
21:45:26pamauryas long as you don't run it in VSYNC or DOTCLK mode, you don't need a framebuffer in memory
21:45:29wodzpamaury: yes but usually this is not true framebuffer (from the point of the software) - just some internal memory you can push data to through fifo
21:45:51pamauryyou can read/write it in a random access fashion
21:45:55pamauryalthough it's damn slow
21:46:25wodzpamaury: the read part is usually omitted
21:47:30wodzyou can simulate this to some degree with windowing functions and hw alpha support though
21:47:39pamaurywell, I admit it's true the read signal is hardly ever wired, *but* it is the case in a few cases, like the fuze+
21:47:52wodzlucky you!
21:48:17pamauryand it's used to read the controller ID to distinguish the LCD type
21:48:37wodzInternal (16K+12K)*8 BROM built in boot up and USB Upgrade firmware and C-library
21:48:51wodzthe last part is pretty peculiar
21:49:10pamauryindeed that's very small
21:49:25wodzI mean C-library part
21:49:44pamaurybut why a C library in ROM ?!
21:49:55wodzto save space in ram
21:50:31wodzand build illusion you have all building blocks in place (hw drivers wrapped in some api)
21:51:18pamauryanyway, with this small amount of RAM you either have a trivial firmware or use paging
21:51:36yuriksthe firmware update file has ~uniform entropy :P
21:52:05pamaurydoes it have a DSP ?
21:52:06yuriksstupid scrambled images
21:52:10yurikspamaury: it does
21:52:31yuriksyou can remap RAM between the MCU/DSP, acoording to the product page
21:52:53wodzyuriks: You can actually decrypt the firmware update file with descrambler in our repo. The tool doesn't understand the format of decoded binary though
21:53:28yurikswodz: I was trying to look for that. I can't get my away around the buildsystem or finding anything in the repo :|
21:53:50yuriksI'm trying to read some code I resorted to mangling the output of make to figure out what files are being included in the build :P
21:54:35wodzthats the tool
21:54:36pamaurycd utils/atj2138/atjboottool; make
21:55:14pamaurywodz: by the way, I don't remember, does it correctly descramble everything or are there still some unknown bits ?
21:55:59yuriksah, it's specific to the thing, not a generic one
21:56:06*yuriks has to go to work
21:56:28pamauryyeah, we have many specific descrambles/tools in utils/
21:56:35wodzpamaury: The descrambling goes fine (well I can't remember if the trailing bytes are cut off or not). It is just that descrambled binary is further packed/scrambled/crypted
21:57:33pamaurycan you disassemble it or is it scrambled ?
21:58:01 Quit y4n (Quit: PANTS OFF!)
21:58:34pamauryyou talked about finding the lcd routine so you must have the code somehow
21:58:56wodzstrings doesn't return anything useful so I suspect it to be further scrambled
21:59:19wodzpamaury: I was talking about e150 not clip sport (re lcd init)
21:59:29pamauryah yeah
22:00:45pamaurywe would need access to the ROM and dump it, if it can do firmware upgrade
22:02:59wodzThat should be possible. If we are lucky enough adfu mode should be similar to s1mp3 and atj213x. The nand data pins needs to be shorted to force flash fault which should expose rom adfu
22:03:47wodzclip sport has jtag pins on PCB which makes another attack vector
22:03:56pamauryyeah, that's worth trying once we have working hwstub on atj213x
22:04:21pamauryjtag is nice if it's not disabled or crypted
22:04:30wodzpamaury: to dump rom you don't need hwstub. adfu can read arbitrary memory
22:04:44pamauryoh really ?
22:05:03wodzyeah, thats how I dumped atj2135's rom
22:05:23pamauryyou should buy a sport and try it ! :p
22:05:43wodzcould be fun but I really don't have time
22:06:18pamauryI have found a player with a new rockchip chip: RKNano-C
22:06:35pamauryI would like to resume my work on the rknano but I don't have the time either
22:07:20pamaurydid you try qeditor's diff btw ?
22:08:07wodzpamaury: no - I am exploring my new findings in e150 OF
22:09:51pamaurythe problem on rknano-b is that the usb driver is not working, although it's supposed to be a synopsys
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22:23:11yurikspamaury: surely you have time to work on isochronous USB? :D
22:23:37pamaurythis is one is either: the code is already written, mostly
22:26:06*pamaury is going to bed
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23:35:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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