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#rockbox log for 2014-10-09

00:07:34 Join franklin [0] (
00:09:55 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
00:12:10*franklin saves 100k on 2048 bin size: G#1008
00:12:14fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #1008 at : 3[POC]: RLE compression of plugin bitmaps by Franklin Wei
00:12:59franklinstill some kinks to work out
00:13:10franklinsome noise near the edges
00:15:25 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.0/20141002185629])
00:16:18[Saint]Oh. Cute. A naive RLE implementation.
00:16:26[Saint]That's...that's actually very cool.
00:16:55*franklin thinks that's the first time [Saint] has said something like that ;)
00:17:19franklinit saves 50% bin size on ipod6g! :D
00:17:25 Nick franklin is now known as [Franklin] (
00:18:02[Saint]Rule Length Encoding for bitmap was one of the very first programatic challenges I was ever sit in university.
00:18:05[Franklin]only proof-of-concept for now
00:18:11[Saint]*ever set
00:18:23[Saint]So many moons ago now.
00:18:49[Franklin]not sure why there's noise
00:20:15[Saint]RLE is fairly noisey.
00:20:25[Franklin]but it should be lossless
00:20:27[Franklin]but its not
00:20:28[Saint]There's a couple of hybrid implementations I looked at years ago.
00:20:43[Franklin]just near the very end of the bitmap, there's a bit of noise
00:21:28[Franklin]nothing major, but noticable
00:21:45[Saint]I remember finding one that did a discrete cosine transform and RLE, but it wasn't exactly quick.
00:21:52gevaertsSounds like a bug then
00:22:14[Franklin]but this is actually useful? :)
00:22:20[Franklin]that's a first for me
00:22:52[Saint]Errrr, shit, sorry. I was needlessly vague. It should be lossless, yes, but I have come across many naive RLE implementations that...well...aren't. :)
00:23:11[Franklin]but this ought to be
00:23:19[Saint]I believe this is rather useful, yes.
00:23:33[Saint]How quick is it? Is there noteable overhead?
00:23:43[Franklin]instant, even
00:24:03[Franklin]maybe .01 seconds for a 224x224 bitmap
00:24:08*[Franklin] will test
00:24:39[Saint]TheSeven has worked fairly extensively with compression formats for cramming in emCORE.
00:24:49[Saint]Perhaps some of his work could be robbed.
00:24:53*foolsh has never seen [Saint] this excited before, god [Franklin] might even be forgiven for being a newfag
00:25:03 Quit ender` (Quit: Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.-- Gehm's Corollary to Clarke's Third Law)
00:25:24TheSevenemCORE-based stuff uses plain .png files for graphics these days
00:25:45*[Franklin] wants lossless, but nothing fancy
00:25:48[Saint]TheSeven, mistake.
00:26:10TheSevendecoding PNG is actually fairly simple
00:26:20TheSeventhe worst part of it is the gzip
00:26:25[Saint]TheSeven I guess I'm thinking of the iLoader and very early emCORE days then.
00:26:27[Saint]My mistake.
00:26:55[Saint]PNG in Rockbox would be fukken *awesome*.
00:26:57TheSevendoesn't mean that what emcore isn't doing wouldn't be equally applicable to what you were discussing ;)
00:27:04[Saint]SVG...a Godsend.
00:27:15TheSevendoesn't the picture viewer support png already?
00:27:34[Franklin]LOL I use %llu and it says just that
00:27:38[Saint]Oh. Hmmm. Possibly. I pay little attention to plugins.
00:27:52TheSevenI think that's where emcore robbed it from actually ;)
00:27:58[Franklin]that explains a lot
00:28:32[Franklin]overhead is 0 ticks
00:28:39[Franklin]so less than 1/100 of a second
00:28:46[Franklin]for 224x224 bitmap
00:29:00[Saint]I would *love* SVG in the core, accessible to the theme engine.
00:29:09*[Franklin] wonders how slow that'd be
00:29:13[Saint]That'd be so fricken sweet, but vastly increase overhead.
00:29:23[Saint][Franklin]: quite - I posit.
00:29:29[Saint]Depending wildly on the target.
00:29:37[Franklin]way more that 1/100 seconds ;)
00:29:45TheSevenif anything, this would have to be rendered while loading the skin
00:29:52[Saint]Some of the more capable targets could almost certainly do it without batting an eyelid.
00:29:59[Saint]Classic, N2G, i.MX*
00:30:21*[Franklin] has some work to do now
00:30:31[Franklin]as in real, legit work :)
00:30:42[Franklin]and not RLE
00:31:38*[Saint] is stuck at home today, so might actually be able to get a few things done, but there's a /lot/ on my catchup list. I need to finish getting the V2 hardware for my clients out the door and into their hands.
00:33:20[Saint] △△△
00:33:57[Saint]hahahaha. that somehow got stuck up in a few minutes of lag.
00:34:08[Saint]also - newfag can't triforce.
00:34:14[Franklin]excuse me?
00:34:52 Quit [Franklin] (Quit: Lost terminal)
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00:36:27*franklin will try to multitask
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00:37:44[Franklin][Saint]: what should be done about 24-bit targets? use 32-bit ints?
00:38:04[Franklin]which uses and extra byte and is pretty much exactly what I'm *not* trying to do
00:39:20[Franklin]or just do it byte-by-byte?
00:39:30[Franklin](which complicates uncompression)
00:42:18[Franklin]also, how should this be made transparent to the plugin (i.e., no function call is needed in the plugin to decompress)?
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01:00:21[Saint]No idea I'm sorry.
01:01:05[Franklin]perhaps something in plugin_load?
01:01:45[Franklin]but then how does it know what bitmaps there are to load?
01:01:52[Franklin]probably best to leave it up to the plugin
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01:36:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:01:01[Franklin][Saint]: could I possibly use a fancier (off-the-shelf) compression method?
02:01:31[Franklin]perhaps gzip?
02:01:31[Saint]almost certainly.
02:01:39[Franklin]but would it be too slow?
02:04:25*[Franklin] will probably stick with RLE for now, but once he figures out the framework, possibly use a different method
02:20:17nialv7I'm using a fuze+ now, and I'm having problem with usb 3.0 port. when I try to copy files to the internal memory, there's no problem. When I was copying to the sd card, it stops working after several MBs.
02:20:28nialv7And it works well with a usb 2.0 port
02:20:33nialv7I'm on linux
02:21:23nialv7some error messages:
02:21:23nialv7[ 6874.720200] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: Setup ERROR: setup context command for slot 26.
02:21:23nialv7[ 6874.720202] usb 1-2: hub failed to enable device, error -22
02:21:23DBUGEnqueued KICK nialv7
02:21:23nialv7[ 6874.880190] usb 1-2: reset high-speed USB device number 27 using xhci_hcd
02:21:23nialv7[ 6874.896593] xhci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: xHCI xhci_drop_endpoint called with disabled ep ffff880221f4fe88
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02:24:41[Franklin]how do I set the flags for bmp2rb used?
02:24:51[Franklin](what flags are used)
02:26:13[Franklin]well first I should probably make it work for all color depths
02:27:45nialv7welp I was wrong, same problem happens with usb 2.0
02:30:28nialv7guess I'll have to use the OF while copying files...
02:31:03[Franklin]sorry, no idea
02:31:27[Franklin]nialv7: perhaps ask pamaury when you see him
02:31:29[Franklin]it's his port
02:31:31[Franklin]gnight all
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07:24:45n9xvtevening,, i have a question,, on my ipod nano 2nd gen will i cause any issue if i use a WPS from a different device? the one i like best isnt available for my rig,,
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07:45:09 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@2001:470:8:a61::5f92:59a1)
07:59:46n9xvtwell it kinda worked,, but the size is wrong,, at least it didnt harm anything
08:22:58 Join wodz [0] (
08:25:26wodz[Saint] and [Franklin]: You definitely miss the point why we do not support png in core. This was discussed extensively when I tweaked png support in imageviewer plugin. Compressed image saves space *ON STORAGE* which is dirty cheap. At the same time it needs substantially more ram which is precious resource.
08:25:27 Join ender` [0] (
08:27:04wodz[Saint]: And here we go with SVG. 1) xml is terrible to parse without malloc (or some constraint implementation) 2) You still need to scale the result to fit particular resolution. This introduces artifacts and is slow. 3) There is no free implementation of embbeded SVG subset I am aware of.
08:29:50wodzAnd the final point is that graphic resources are problematic on native targets (read as insane HD phones) and not on DAPs with 320x240 typical resolution.
08:31:15wodzAnyway if someone implements SVG decoder I'll be glad to review and help
08:34:30wodzWe could go emcore way and implement subset of png decoding in core of course but this will open *tons* of questions why particular image used in theme doesn't show up. I'd avoid this.
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08:42:34[Saint]ikeboy: if you read the logs - regarding your glyph cache question, glyph cache can be disabled entirely by settings and I forgot about this.
08:43:24[Saint]Settings->System->Limits->Glyphs To Cache
08:43:42[Saint]IIRC, 0 is an acceptable input for this.
08:44:03[Saint]anyhoo, gotta run, just remembered about this.
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09:36:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:43:43fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 1e7b93a, 255 builds, 32 clients.
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10:23:13nialv7maybe we should use utf8 as default cuesheet encoding?
10:28:38 Quit pamaury_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
10:34:52pamaurynialv7: I've never seen this usb problem before, what would be *way* more useful than a kernel message is to capture a trace using wiresharl
10:35:40nialv7ok I'll try that when I have time
10:36:14nialv7btw I'm using a 64GB SDXC, don't know if that matters
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10:41:49wodzpamaury: I guess you didn't get e100 yet?
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11:09:04kugel__wodz: I think we should have png in the core, but I guess we want a plugin architecture for the decoders
11:13:22wodzkugel__: subset of png in core would be easy. Scaling and various color mappings not. Substantial part of the decoder code in imageviewer is just for conversions.
11:15:03wodzkugel__: So as long as we restrict ourselves to 1) no scaling 2) use native color depth it should be easy BUT I know what will happen. Themers will start to complain about their favourite png not showing up
11:15:40kugel__what's the problem with scaling?
11:15:50wodzsize of the buffer
11:16:08wodzpng can be decoded 'in place' but can't be scaled in place
11:16:14kugel__what about scale-on-load like with jpeg?
11:17:01wodzWhat for would you like to have png? If for theming I don't see the point of scaling on target
11:19:15kugel__album art
11:20:25kugel__if you could decode png row-by-row then you could plug it into our scale-on-load code
11:20:48wodzyou can decode row-by-row unless png is not progressive
11:21:04wodz*as long as
11:21:09wodzyou know what I mean
11:21:26kugel__right, that's a restriction with jpeg too
11:22:38wodzIs AA in png that common?
11:23:54kugel__don't know
11:24:13kugel__i have seen it and desktop programs usually support it
11:25:15wodzI may try to craft some SOC when get bored and find some free time (which is rather unrealistic unfortunately)
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20:41:57wodz\o/ lcd on iriver e150 is working
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21:28:50wodzpamaury: I have working lcd on e150 :-)
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23:55:44[Saint]After having a fairly lengthy discussion with a Rockbox user in person the other day (it turns out one of my customers for my "ISP" is a DAP/Rockbox enthusiast of sorts) this morning I wonder the following:
23:56:22[Saint]Would anyone have any objection to the default setting for the volume cap being 0dB?
23:58:50[Saint]Joe Average type users don't appear to know why going above 0dB may be bad and why it ends up sounding like dirt, and can go above 0dB without noticing very easily (for example if not looking at the device screen at the time of changing volume).

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