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#rockbox log for 2014-10-14

00:00:06[Franklin](see... this is the problem!)
00:00:30*foolsh scratches his head and thinks
00:01:04[Franklin]the build process is too complicated
00:01:20gevaertsMake it simpler then
00:01:24gevaertsGood luck
00:02:03 Quit edhelas (Quit: Quitte)
00:02:45[Franklin]foolsh: madke sure you change build_sim to your build dir
00:03:36foolshOh I ran it correctly
00:04:28[Franklin]hmm... cat pluginbitmaps/_2048_tiles.h?
00:04:47foolshstill 'make' craps out
00:04:50fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #95 at : 3IAP rework patch 3: Authentication by Ralf Ertzinger
00:05:06 Quit megal0maniac (Killed ( (Nickname regained by services)))
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00:05:19foolshha thats a bug gevaerts!
00:05:26[Franklin]no it's not
00:05:33[Franklin]you had "G95" in the url
00:05:36fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #95 at : 3IAP rework patch 3: Authentication by Ralf Ertzinger
00:05:51[Franklin]but you forgot to run the command for the background header
00:06:30gevaertsfoolsh: for the record, fs-bluebot isn't my bot
00:06:34foolshI'll file bug report and make it one then :-P , nope I didn't I run the two commands and then run make
00:06:45foolshI ran them again and thenmake
00:06:50[Franklin]it's bluebrother^ 's
00:06:56[Franklin]hence the name :P
00:08:46foolshoh wait I don;t have _2048_tiles.224x224x24.bmp I have _2048_tiles.22x22x24.bmp
00:09:12[Franklin]no... 48x48
00:09:27[Franklin]background is 224x225
00:09:29[Franklin]background is 224x224
00:09:33[Franklin]tiles are 48x48
00:10:04foolshAh I blame TAB completion
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00:10:21[Franklin]blame bash
00:10:28[Franklin]use zsh
00:11:17foolshokay you want to know the size diff of my 2048 binary? or the while
00:11:32[Franklin]2048 binary
00:11:38[Franklin]and then run it and see the overhead
00:11:46[Franklin](it'll splash it)
00:12:22*[Franklin] knows the bin size diffs
00:12:31[Franklin]just want to see how fast the decompression is
00:13:14[Franklin]it'll most likely be 0
00:13:17 Quit ender` (Quit: I always wanted to have a job in construction or at a hardware store just so I could eat some pink cotton candy in front of someone in a situation that would make them think I was eating fiberglass insulation.-- Chris Hallbeck)
00:13:33[Franklin]lol ender
00:13:41foolshoh ok actual hardware then, hang on a minute
00:17:58foolsh0 overhead
00:18:59foolshcan the headers be all pre-generated?
00:21:31gevaerts[Franklin]: how does the decompression work? Is it at plugin startup, or do you compress directly to the framebuffer whenever the bitmap is drawn?
00:24:08[Franklin]gevaerts: at plugin start
00:24:10[Franklin]see the code :P
00:24:10[Franklin]foolsh: good
00:24:17[Franklin]foolsh: yes, but I don't know how
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00:25:02gevaerts[Franklin]: so you need more RAM. Lots of plugins aren't going to have much of that available
00:25:18[Franklin]not much
00:25:24gevaertsUnless you do clever linker tricks, but I doubt that
00:26:05gevaertsWell, you add the entire compressed bitmaps
00:26:20[Franklin]perhaps decompression in place?
00:26:30[Franklin]extra space at the end of the compressed bitmap?
00:26:59*gevaerts waits for [Franklin] to think about what that actually means
00:27:38[Franklin]well... it'd defeat the whole purpose of compression!
00:28:33gevaertsThe only way to do it properly is to tell the linker to put all the bitmaps at the end of the binary
00:29:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:29:57gevaertsThen you can either decompress in place (carefully, in the right order), or decompress to the end of the plugin buffer and add the space used by the compressed bitmaps to the plugin heap (for those plugins that use a heap in some way)
00:30:54[Franklin]hmm... how would that return it to the heap?
00:31:36gevaertsMore linker magic, of course :)
00:31:49*[Franklin] has got to go
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00:33:20*yuriks thinks this whole compression thing is being overcomplicated
00:33:39yuriksWhat's wrong with simply adding a library function to decompress data?
00:33:56yuriksAnd use something like LZ too...
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00:35:28gevaertsI think that unless there's some sort of in-place decompression, it's not very interesting
00:35:43gevaertsPlugins don't take *that* much diskspace
00:37:21foolshdecompressing to the framebuffer on the fly would be interesting, then you would have to worry about overhead perhaps
00:37:49gevaertsOh, indeed, but a simple RLE scheme should be very fast
00:38:14gevaertsIt might actually be faster than uncompressed data in some cases thanks to RAM speed
00:39:07yuriksI had some dos games that decompressed stuff on the fly
00:39:45yuriksBevause that let's you just skip transparent pixels and makes solid color runs faster by keeping the src in a reg and looping
00:39:59*gevaerts nods
00:40:23gevaertsOf course the implementation has to be decent
00:40:44yuriksYeah, but you have a good point for a simple RLE
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00:43:46gevaertsAnyway, trading scarce RAM for cheap diskspace isn't a good idea as far as I can see, so I don't see much point in [Franklin]'s current implementation
00:44:56gevaertsIt needs to be either decompress in place (so RAM usage doesn't go up compared to what we currently have) or decompress on the fly when drawing (which should make RAM usage go down)
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00:45:45*foolsh gets his prod ready for when he sees franklin again
00:47:27gevaertsThe former means playing with and friend, the latter is clearly firmware/ material
00:48:21gevaertsThen change bmp2rb to actually have a header that says if it's compressed, and have it try compressing to see if it's a win, make the on the fly decompression transparent to the caller, and the world is a much better place :)
00:49:18yuriksIt would be cool if you could translate RAM savings to power savings on flash targets...
00:49:31 Quit pystar89 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:50:00gevaertsThat's going to be tricky
00:50:30gevaertsOn disk targets there's a fairly straight effect, but on flash things are a lot subtler
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00:53:42[Saint]Those crazy raspberrypi kids...
00:54:07*[Saint] would really like to see that actually be a thing
00:54:24gevaertsBut even on disk targets it's going to be fairly small. You're going to save a few hundred KB at most I expect, and all non-Archos disk targets have at least 16MB
00:54:58gevaertsThe ones with large colour screens (where you have the most to gain from RLE) tend to have 32MB or more
00:58:29[Saint]Its nice to have the implementation available, but I'm not sure how well it will translate to real world savings on device.
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05:14:23nuiJust wanted to drop in and leave a thank you for Rockbox. Just gave it a try on my e280, and I love it, especially the morse input.
05:20:00ParkerRnui, glad ya like it
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05:49:05nuiI just noticed a patch posted allowing case switching for morse input. Are there any plans for this? Just wondering. I know I'm not a typical user, but I'm fast enough at morse to make it a useful note taking device in a pinch.
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23:08:03saratogaif anyone still uses WMA, would you check if FS #12576 breaks seeking on any files?
23:08:04fs-bluebot 3wma files with cover_art picture are not read on Sansa Clip (bugs, unconfirmed)
23:08:11saratogasim or device should work the same
23:08:33fs-bluebot 3Sansa Clip+ Seeking Fails When Playback Is Paused (bugs, unconfirmed)
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23:57:18[Franklin]gevaerts: any suggestions on how to decompress in place, or on the fly?
23:58:55 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.0/20141007073543])

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