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#rockbox log for 2014-11-16

00:10:54[Franklin]foo|sh: ping
00:12:58 Quit y4n (Quit: Today is the perfect day for a perfect day.)
00:20:26 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 34.0/20141110195804])
00:34:06[Franklin]git is acting weirdly...
00:34:20[Franklin]I run git rebase -i master, and it says there's conflicts
00:34:32[Franklin]so I run git rebase −−abort and git rebase -i master again
00:34:39[Franklin]and then there's no conflicts
00:39:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:41:48[Franklin]I'm not really complaining; it does what I'd expect
00:45:38 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
00:48:52[Franklin]but still, its weird
01:12:34 Join yuriks_ [0] (~quassel@opentyrian/developer/yuriks)
01:17:57 Nick foo|sh is now known as foolsh (
01:18:22foolsh[Franklin] pong
01:18:51[Franklin]foolsh: welcome back
01:19:39foolshI didn't go any where, just on a different sleeping schecdule ;)
01:20:13foolshI don't understand the rotation code very well
01:20:19[Franklin]foolsh: I fixed it
01:20:33[Franklin]check the forums :P
01:20:51foolshI'm gonna change your name to speedy
01:20:55[Franklin]I'm surprised I didn't catch that before pushing
01:20:57 Nick [Franklin] is now known as [Speedy] (
01:21:27[Speedy]anyway, I also _think_ I fixed the crash with load/save
01:21:42foolshwhat do think of the save load scheme that I put in place?
01:21:45[Speedy]it just disables saving from the main menu when you haven't loaded a game yet
01:22:06[Speedy]foolsh: It needs some sort of safety net to keep people from wiping their games
01:22:11[Speedy]and a save+quit option
01:22:16[Speedy]other than that, I like it
01:22:31foolshI took out save+quit
01:22:37foolshit just save
01:22:39foolshor load
01:22:42foolshor quit
01:23:12[Speedy]foolsh: I'd think there should be "save+quit" and "quit"
01:23:18[Speedy]just for convenience
01:23:21 Nick [Speedy] is now known as [Franklin] (
01:23:46foolshbtw, why would you delete a save file on load? that's just silly :P
01:24:09[Franklin]foolsh: to make it "seamless"
01:24:20[Franklin]you load, play, save, and quit
01:24:30[Franklin]that works for simple games (eg 2048)
01:24:44 Quit ender` (Quit: Money is the root of all evil, and man needs roots.)
01:25:36foolshI like having seperate "load" "save" and "quit" it gives control to the user to do what they feel is best
01:25:55foolshI admitt I was frustrated before
01:26:03[Franklin]yeah, I'd like to keep that
01:26:13[Franklin]and add a save+quit option
01:26:38[Franklin]and also give the user a warning when they just quit (without saving)
01:26:38foolshbut not deleting the save file until a new save is made ;)
01:26:45[Franklin]foolsh: oh yeah
01:26:57foolshalright sounds great
01:27:34[Franklin]also, I'm still not sure if it should be "counterclockwise" or "anticlockwise"
01:27:55*[Saint] stirs the pot
01:28:06[Saint]quicksave/load that just remembers the save from that session!
01:28:19[Franklin][Saint]: no...
01:28:32[Franklin][Saint]: it deletes after loading
01:28:35 Quit chrisb (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:29:20foolshconventionally it's counter clockwise silly
01:29:29[Franklin]foolsh: but that's american english
01:29:39[Franklin]foolsh: I prefer counterclockwise too
01:29:47[Saint]If you wanna be pedantic, it varies by locale.
01:29:51[Franklin]and this project uses british english
01:30:03[Franklin][Saint]: well, how do you localize a plugin?
01:30:15[Saint]You don't. I expect.
01:30:33[Franklin]so counterclockwise?
01:31:36[Saint]anti-clockwise is the common En-UK variant.
01:31:52[Saint]counterclockwise the common En-US variant.
01:31:56[Franklin][Saint]: everything else in rockbox uses "counterclockwise"... comments, everything
01:32:02[Franklin]except the rockblox manual
01:32:10foolshwe're tlaking about a comment anyways so it doesn't really make a big difference ;P
01:32:19[Franklin]foolsh: and the option ;)
01:32:21[Saint]A comment? Gah...
01:32:27[Saint]Fuck the comment. ;p
01:32:35foolshoh yeah I forgot
01:32:36[Franklin][Saint]: there is a menu for that says counterclockwise too
01:33:05[Franklin]so it /does/ matter ;)
01:33:08 Nick yuriks_ is now known as yuriks (~quassel@opentyrian/developer/yuriks)
01:33:10[Saint]I'd default to En-UK personally.
01:33:33[Franklin][Saint]: but the rest of the codebase uses counterclockwise... change that too?
01:33:53[Saint]Nope. ANything the user doesn't see doesn't matter.
01:34:11[Franklin]the manual?
01:34:22[Saint]...does the user see the manual?
01:34:29[Franklin]they do
01:34:39[Franklin]well, the manual's "correct"
01:34:44[Franklin]so no, it doesn't matter
01:34:52[Franklin]well, anticlockwise it is
01:35:13[Franklin]well, anticlockwise it is
01:35:58foolshlol whatever
01:36:17[Franklin]foolsh: I was actually hoping it would be counterclockwise
01:36:31[Franklin]but there'd be no way [Saint] would approve :D
01:36:56foolshfuck it we'll use degrees
01:37:27[Franklin]foolsh: it complicates things a bit if the loading code doesn't delete the save
01:38:13foolshso delete it right before save
01:38:19foolshthats how I had it
01:38:42[Franklin]no... in order to have a "quit wo/ saving" and a "save+quit" option
01:38:55[Franklin]if the loading code didn't delete, "quit wo/ saving" code would have to
01:39:05[Franklin]but it doesn't know how
01:39:41[Franklin]so it'd be easier to have the loading code delete it, and then have "quit wo/ saving" to just exit, and "save+quit" to save
01:40:46[Franklin]the drawback of this approach would be in the event of a crash, the save would be lost
01:41:27foolshthen it becomes a pain in the ass to just "save" after a difficult area and "load" it from the menu, instead of dieing and starting the scene from the very beggining
01:42:00foolshI don't see the problem I had no difficulties with it so far
01:42:10 Join chrisb [0] (
01:42:16foolshI was pulling my hair outwondering where my saves were going
01:42:16*[Franklin] is now confused
01:42:37[Franklin]with the delete on load?
01:42:50foolshme too, let me see your code tonight before I pass judgement :)
01:43:20*[Franklin] will change the code to not delete on load
01:43:24[Franklin]at the cost of elegance
01:43:31[Franklin]and a few added functions
01:43:58[Franklin]then tell me if that's what you want
01:46:18foolshOkay, sorry if I seem passionate about it, it's not a casual game, when the player gets past a difficult area, it's nice to save and jump back there with a load if they die, deleting the save on "load" prevents this
01:46:51*[Franklin] understands completely
01:47:56[Franklin]ok it seems to be working
01:48:02[Franklin]now to add the "safety net"
01:48:30[Franklin]actually, first I'll push to give you an idea
01:49:26[Franklin]ok look at engine.c and sys.c
01:49:31[Franklin](the diffs)
01:49:49[Franklin]is that what you were talking about?
01:51:45foolshthat works
01:52:13foolshdid you reintroduce motion blur and anti aliasing?
01:52:40[Franklin]as [Saint] said, people will get very angry at me if I did
01:53:14foolshpfft, if its done in the audio buffer it should have enough memory
01:53:32[Saint]I don't mean froma core perspective.
01:53:39foolshthe fuze+ can handle it, not sure about other targest
01:53:41[Saint]I mean about from a pissing on a classic game perspective.
01:53:50foolshoh lol maybe
01:54:36[Saint]I posit most poeple playing this would've had a fond memory for the original and want to see it semi faithfully represented.
01:54:44[Franklin][Saint]: its disabled by default
01:54:50[Franklin](would be, that is)
01:55:07[Franklin]I imagine negative would piss people off enough
01:56:06 Quit krabador (Quit: Sto andando via)
01:56:26[Franklin]but hey, it was pretty cool
01:56:38[Franklin]so yeah, I'll get the kinks worked out
01:57:14 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
01:57:37 Quit krabador (Client Quit)
02:02:18foolsh[Franklin] "git rm apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/xworld_title.320x240x24.bmp" and "git rm apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/xworld_title.640x480x24.bmp"
02:02:33foolshunless you're trying to sneak them back in ;)
02:07:41 Quit [Franklin] (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
02:09:33 Join [Franklin] [0] (
02:12:50[Franklin]foolsh: lol
02:14:06[Franklin]foolsh: I'm not sure how those got in
02:15:04foolshgerrit if a shithole to colaborate on
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02:15:17 Quit ungali (Changing host)
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02:15:20[Franklin]foolsh: this is really sad:
02:16:01[Franklin]at one point, there were almost 800 commits per month
02:16:19[Franklin]now we're down to like 20
02:16:37foolshso do a hardware port and that's a few hundred right there :)
02:17:03[Franklin]foolsh: yeah, too bad you can't squeeze 50 or so commits out of a plugin :)
02:18:42[Franklin]foolsh: perhaps 10 at most
02:19:17 Quit bertrik (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:19:22foolshit always peaks in winter ;)
02:19:30[Franklin]foolsh: why?
02:19:49[Franklin]hmm... interesting
02:19:51foolshclod bored people huddled around cpus for warm
02:20:16[Franklin]college students on break?
02:26:31foolshchirstmas gifts that need rockbox ports ;)
02:26:49*[Franklin] tries to get git show to list ALL the commits
02:26:54[Franklin]can't seem to figure it out
02:27:58[Franklin]aha git log!
02:29:34[Franklin]hmm... can't seem to get UTC times
02:31:40[Franklin]ok... since the first commit, there's been 32687 commits
02:31:45[Franklin](in my local tree)
02:31:59[Franklin]I like how its an anagram of 2^15
02:32:17 Quit sakax (Remote host closed the connection)
02:33:01*[Franklin] decides to make his own cool graphs
02:34:51 Quit scorche` (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:39:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:41:21 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
02:46:14[Franklin]oh cool
02:46:48*[Franklin] is a little speck
02:47:24foolshI have been known to look for help finishing in the past g#656
02:47:27fs-bluebotGerrit review #656 at : WinCE SDL port & new Toolchain CeGCC 0.59 (WIP) by Benjamin Brown
02:47:32[Franklin]any way to make it have a longer time frame?
02:47:44foolshI'll even donate some hardware if you're interested
02:48:28[Franklin]foolsh: actually, get me interested
02:48:39*[Franklin] wants to get lower-level
02:48:47foolshI can make it longer but have to go log in and edit the sources
02:49:06foolshI've wanted to start a hardware port for one of those wince devices
02:49:11foolshcould boot it with haret
02:49:45[Franklin]foolsh: I have no experience whatsoever with that kind of thing :)
02:50:09foolshneither did I, and it should never stop you
02:50:24foolshunless you want to be a surgeon or something
02:50:41foolshthen stop before you cut open people
02:51:18 Quit chkktri (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
02:52:02foolshthe tool chain I was using for that has two flavors
02:52:12foolshcegcc and mingw32ce
02:52:41foolshthe former was for running native code on bare metel
02:52:53foolshthe later for of course under WinCE
02:53:29foolshI flipped a flopped at first as to which to use
02:53:42foolshI though boot with haret?
02:53:55foolshor run a SDL app
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02:54:13[Franklin]foolsh: SDL app would be way easier
02:54:18[Franklin]I'd think
02:54:20foolshsince I'm no genius, naturally
02:54:27foolshI choose SDL
02:56:49[Franklin]foolsh: so what's its current state?
02:57:56foolshmostly done, I have to get errno.h in there some where, I think
02:58:16foolshand it dependancies
02:58:41*foolsh needs another cup of joe
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03:24:21 Quit [Franklin] (Quit: Lost terminal)
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03:41:28[Franklin]foolsh: what's next for xworld?
03:41:34[Franklin]foolsh: it needs some more PR
03:44:05foolshcan we increase the frame rate on the e200?
03:44:23foolshwe sleep a little, and fast mode is too fast
03:44:34[Franklin]foolsh: oh yeah, I almost forgot
03:44:45*[Franklin] will try just dividing the sleep time by 2
03:45:10foolshI can ignore scroll events some how too, as well?
03:45:29foolshit interupts input
03:45:45[Franklin]scroll events?
03:45:52foolshon the e200 sorry
03:46:17foolshscroll event fromteh e200 interupt inputs, causing jerkiness
03:46:26*[Franklin] doesn't know
03:46:29*[Franklin] doesn't know how
03:47:00foolshyou did something about that refresh button for hte ipod I'll see about the e200 tonight
03:47:10foolshshould be similair
03:47:20foolshjust has to catch it and exit the loop
03:47:22[Franklin]oh yeah
03:47:33[Franklin]if you can figure out the button, it'll be easy
03:52:45 Quit ungali (Quit: ungali)
03:58:52foolsh[Franklin] it seems almost a little redundant to have the menun duplication, does jumping to the game if no save exists yet sound better?
04:00:12foolshso another words, starting the plugin the first time will jump to the code input screen
04:00:38foolshand after exiting and saving the next time we can jump to the one menu
04:00:43[Franklin]foolsh: nah
04:01:01[Franklin]foolsh: people might want to change settings a bit before starting
04:01:11foolshthey could pause and do that
04:01:11[Franklin]and plus, it'd be inconsistent
04:01:37*foolsh won't argue with [Franklin] since he does all the work
04:02:00*foolsh is just works it out slowly
04:02:30foolshgah, y words!
04:03:36[Franklin]foolsh: but it could be a menu option
04:03:39[Franklin]"Skip to game"
04:03:53[Franklin]and sys_menu just automatically returns if its set and there's a save
04:04:37foolshright something like that, seems... more elegant
04:05:30[Franklin]and then of course it could be turned off from the pause menu
04:05:56foolshthe duplication is what kills it, need simplification
04:09:48foolshI was talking about the menu code being duplicated
04:10:17foolshbut it's not a show stopper,
04:10:19[Franklin]ah yes
04:10:23[Franklin]it needs refactoring
04:10:34[Franklin]the whole plugin does, actually :)
04:10:41foolshIt seems some scenes play much slower/faster than others
04:10:54foolshI got past the first scene
04:11:07[Franklin]foolsh: yes, that's to be expected
04:14:25*foolsh wonders why, since we have more than enough cpu to do the job
04:14:40foolsheven on the ten year old e200
04:17:23[Franklin]foolsh: overhead from the simulation for one
04:17:23[Franklin]and the fact that the game intentionally sleeps between frames
04:17:24[Franklin] /ping ChanServ
04:17:24DBUGEnqueued KICK [Franklin]
04:18:10foolshsince we can already return the fps, can't we use that to tell us how much we have to adjust the sleep time?
04:18:38[Franklin]foolsh: yes
04:18:38foolshgranted thats complicated but not impossible
04:18:45[Franklin]foolsh: it's not really
04:18:51[Franklin]just multiplying the sleep value
04:18:53foolshis for me ;)
04:19:18[Franklin]ok, I'll try dividing it in two
04:19:35foolshoh by not bye
04:21:54[Franklin]foolsh: try the latest patch set (no fast mode, just normal)
04:22:10foolshalright e200? fuze+? both?
04:22:17[Franklin]both I guess
04:22:23[Franklin]though e200 would be more interesting
04:24:42[Franklin]do it for the code screen, intro, and "pool" scene :)
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04:36:17foolshfuze+ is 33fps no matter what scaling or rotation on the code input scene, the intro plays at 10-25 fps, the pool scene at about 16 fps, the cage scene at 11fps
04:36:19 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
04:36:26foolshit much faster
04:36:39[Franklin]what about e200?
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04:36:54foolshstill building
04:37:19CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
04:37:19*[Franklin] needs to get his build server booted up
04:37:27foolshalmost to fast on the fuze+
04:37:36[Franklin]foolsh: that's not a problem! :P
04:37:36foolshbut not slow at all
04:37:58foolshyes it's nice
04:38:08foolshI can run the good scalling
04:38:13[Franklin]foolsh: well, I guess it needs a setting to enable it
04:38:28foolshmedium mode?
04:38:33[Franklin]perhaps "Speed:" "50%" "100%" "150%" "MAX"
04:39:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:45:13[Franklin]foolsh: what's the FPS on e200?
04:46:29[Franklin]it's gettin' late
04:47:11foolshe200 is 4fps with good scaling and rotation on the code input scene 20 with fast scaling the intro plays at 10-24 fps, the pool scene at about 11-14 fps
04:47:29foolshwith only th efast scaling on after the code input screen
04:47:45foolshits much better
04:49:35foolshther's an off by one onthe e200, the screen has a white line up the right hand side with rotation CCW but no big deal
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08:27:17foolshhello benwah
08:28:13benwahI purchased sansa clip zip long ago. Is this still a good model to buy or is something obviously better these days
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08:30:49foolshI admit, I know very little on this subject, but personally if price was not an option, I would seek out a creative zen, or ipod video to mod.
08:31:47foolshthe fuze line of products may be plastic happy meal feeling players, but the screen size is nice
08:33:53benwahi only listen to song ever
08:34:12foolshthen the clip line, is still the right fit
08:36:17foolshFrom the wiki "Rockbox runs on the Clip v1, Clip v2, Clip+ and ClipZip? models, and is generally stable enough to use. "
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08:45:15benwahyeah i had good experience with rockbox on clip zip
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09:02:10alexbobpmy favorite thing about the zip line is that they can dangle harmlessly from the headphone cable if you drop them
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14:18:35fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 5796969, 255 builds, 25 clients.
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17:58:55foolsh[Franklin] o/
17:59:21[Franklin]foolsh: \o
17:59:27[Franklin]I got a nice graph of commits per day
17:59:55[Franklin]it turns out there were two major spikes in development
18:00:54foolshoh? what do they correlate with?
18:01:19[Franklin]and 10/1/2011
18:01:40[Franklin]there were 70 commits those two days
18:01:52*foolsh wonders what targets those were
18:02:19[Franklin]lets findo ut
18:02:45*foolsh has been slowly plucking away at keymaps for xworld
18:03:38foolshxworld on the e200 is still less than spectacular with your latest changes
18:03:57[Franklin]it was pamaury adding keymaps for fuze+ plugins
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18:13:12[Franklin]its commits per day
18:13:20foolshI see that
18:14:31[Franklin]lets try commits per month
18:16:02[Franklin]oh cool
18:19:05foolshObject not found!
18:19:18[Franklin]try again
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18:25:12[Franklin][Saint]: yes?
18:26:05[Franklin]foolsh: I suspect that most of the commits are on weekends
18:28:56[Franklin]lets find out
18:35:16[Franklin]Monday and Sunday have the most commits
18:35:23[Franklin]friday and saturday have the least
18:36:00foolshI guess that makes sense
18:36:34foolshpeople do stuff on the week end
18:36:43[Franklin]yeah, but why not saturday?
18:37:00foolshpoeple still go out on saturday
18:37:09foolshit's called the weekend
18:37:14[Saint]you probably forgot to skew for timezones per author.
18:37:20[Franklin][Saint]: aha
18:37:20foolshthat too
18:37:28[Franklin][Saint]: you're right?
18:37:39[Franklin]I did
18:38:25[Saint]It also pays to note that gerrit completely fucks this up.
18:38:35[Saint]with gerrit, you get the submission date.
18:38:39[Franklin][Saint]: I was doing commit date
18:38:50[Franklin]should it be author date?
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18:40:02foolsh[Franklin] broke [Saint]
18:40:26[Saint]If you look at for example, its all jacked up, due to gerrit.
18:40:27foolshsomeone hit his reset button
18:40:46[Saint]The submissions are in order, but, the dates are the that which they wee submitted to gerrit.
18:40:56[Saint]not that of when they were committed to the codebase.
18:43:16[Saint]tl;dr: gerrit and author timezones make this chart pretty much impossible to create
18:43:22[Saint]with accuracy, at least.
18:43:49[Franklin]it would have been interesting
18:44:11[Franklin]as would doing it by hour of the day
18:44:28foolshyou can take a subset of it before gerrit happened
18:45:20foolshand then another one after it ;)
18:45:31 Part ZincAlloy
18:46:50foolsh:) then average the deltas to give us the mean density of commits over time
18:48:26*[Franklin] considers changing careers
18:52:04[Franklin]statistics seem easy with a computer
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18:59:14foolsh[Franklin] so are gray scale targets still on the todo list?
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22:13:46micahi have this ancient ipod classic 80gb that I've been running rockbox on for a while (its an unsupported version), but sadly the drive is dying
22:14:02micahi'm looking to get another device that works really well with rockbox
22:14:54micahlooking for small, and relatively cheap!
22:15:49micahwhat do people suggest?
22:17:45micahmostly interested in listening to podcasts while walking the dog in the freezing cold (so easy controls, esp. when using gloves is a plus). fm would be nice I guess, but otherwise I dont need recording
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22:28:40[Saint]micah: if its just the HDD, then, I'd just look at replacing it.
22:29:07micah[Saint]: i'm pretty sure its the HDD, but it looks a bit... complicated to replace
22:29:15micahthey built those devices to not ever be opened
22:29:21[Saint]You can even cram solid state storage in there if you'd like to upgrade.
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22:41:43micah[Saint]: doesn't it depend on the ipod version?
22:41:51micahI can't seem to figure out which one mine is
22:43:02[Saint]There's only two types worth differentiating against, and, there's options for both.
22:43:42micahthis seems to be Apple iPod classic ("Original"/6th Gen) 80 GB - model number A1238
22:44:48micahlol the opening process looks... fun
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22:45:09micah"Opening the case took me 40 minutes and 7 plastic case openers"
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22:46:05micahon the one hand, I'd like to extend the life of this device, on the other hand, I'd like a version of rockbox that is more supported, and isn't going to be a PITA to fix
22:46:18micahi can get an iriver h10 for $40, that is really tempting
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22:48:43[Saint]In what way do you mean "more supported"?
22:49:13[Saint]The 'unsupported' device classification almost certainly doesn't mean what you think it means.
22:49:35[Saint]sorry - 'unusable'.
22:50:18[Saint]The port is largely usable, and very stable, its just the installation procedure and lack of an official bootloader keeping the port classed as 'unusable' presently.
22:50:42micahi haven't looked to see if there is a new version available
22:51:05micahi'm running 9faabb9-130719
22:51:11[Saint]There's a new version available with every commit that enters the source tree.
22:51:40[Saint]the build you have there is _ancient_.
22:52:13[Saint](Rockbox utility can handle the update process for you, or you can do it manually)
22:52:23micahrockbox utility?
22:52:48micahwell, it wont work if my drive is bad
22:56:06micahin otherwords, i will need to be able to mount the device to use that, I presume
22:56:55[Saint]Aha. I interpreted 'dying' rather differently.
22:57:00[Saint]I would call that 'dead'.
22:58:09micahthats what I get when I try to mount it
22:58:23micahwell, i don't call it dead because I can still listen to things on it! I just can't update it
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23:50:10[Franklin]foolzzzzzzzz: yes, they are
23:50:27[Franklin]foolzzzzzzzz: I haven't done anything to support them yet

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