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| 04:45:06 | orzo | hello |
| 04:46:06 | orzo | is it correct behavior that rockbox bookmarks made on an sdcard inserted into a e280 will not work when that sdcard is inserted into an android phone and rockbox is run as an android app? |
| 04:47:04 | orzo | I believe the issue is that full paths are specified in the bmark file, and we see the e280 writing something like /<microSD1>/ where the rockbox android app writes and expects /mnt/sdcard/ |
| 04:47:37 | | Quit varogami (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 04:48:01 | orzo | it's come up because i am writing an android app myself that reads/writes rockbox compatible bookmarks and i cannot see a way to be compatible with both... |
| 04:48:52 | orzo | currently my app can accept either sort of path, but it writes the /<microSD1>/ path in order to be compatible with e280 |
| 04:49:27 | orzo | i didn't realize until now that rockbox runs on android and so i installed it and see that it uses a different path on there which seems bad |
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| 06:34:56 | [Saint] | orzo: it should, by my understanding, try trimming the path down until it either finds a hit or gives up. |
| 06:35:05 | [Saint] | so - basically, yes, this may be expected. |
| 06:36:47 | orzo | expected that it doesn't work? |
| 06:37:27 | orzo | i think android rockbox should use <microSD1> or accept it if e280 rockbox writes that |
| 06:40:00 | orzo | i think its a primary reason somebody might want to install rockbox on their android |
| 06:40:08 | [Saint] | That would require a lot of largely unnecessary magic. |
| 06:40:13 | orzo | in my case, my e280 is broken |
| 06:40:30 | orzo | now i have to transform all the bookmarks if i want to use them on android |
| 06:40:53 | [Saint] | I mean, in my many years here, exactly one person has complained of this. |
| 06:40:54 | [Saint] | You. |
| 06:41:03 | [Saint] | So, it can't be in that much demand. |
| 06:41:23 | orzo | if i coded the magic would you object to it? |
| 06:41:45 | [Saint] | But, one can chalk this up to one of the many reasons why Rockbox on Android is not (nor will it be) marketed to the publec in its current state. |
| 06:41:51 | orzo | i think that i was the one who originally requested bookmarks to begin with |
| 06:42:04 | orzo | the feature didn't exist before i mentioned wanting it here |
| 06:42:07 | [Saint] | *public, uugh, typos. |
| 06:42:39 | [Saint] | And, you can certainly try...but I wouldn't like to gamble on it getting committed. |
| 06:42:55 | [Saint] | Walking over the playlists code for such a nice case might not be looked at favorably. |
| 06:42:56 | [Saint] | Dunno. |
| 06:43:00 | | Quit froggyman (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 06:43:08 | [Saint] | *niche, dammit. |
| 06:43:10 | [Saint] | cold hands. |
| 06:44:13 | orzo | how's the project organized? is there a dictator? |
| 06:44:16 | [Saint] | By my understanding if the end of the paths on either device match, it should "Just Work". |
| 06:44:20 | [Saint] | No. |
| 06:44:43 | orzo | well your understanding is wrong |
| 06:44:53 | orzo | i mean, it might be right in "should" |
| 06:44:56 | orzo | but its wrong in actually does |
| 06:45:11 | [Saint] | It does on non-app targets, or...did. |
| 06:45:38 | [Saint] | I can't say with certainty it still does. |
| 06:45:58 | orzo | when i had the wrong path in my bookmarks, it would list the bookmarks, but when i select one, it fails to go the right place and then forgets that any of the bookmarks exist |
| 06:46:14 | [Saint] | Oh dear. |
| 06:46:33 | orzo | when i edited the bmark files to have the right path, they work fine |
| 06:46:52 | [Saint] | I thought bookmarks and playlists were handled rather similarly in this regard, I suppose not. |
| 06:48:09 | | Quit ikeboy (Quit: Leaving) |
| 06:48:39 | orzo | i'm not sure what you mean about the playlist case. Do you mean a path to a music file that it reads from an m3u8 file will work with either <microSD1> or /mnt/sdcard at the begginning of it? |
| 06:49:46 | [Saint] | To my understanding, yes. It should try stripping sections of the path until it finds a hit. |
| 06:50:05 | [Saint] | or, doesn't. |
| 06:50:26 | orzo | so if i put a filename without any path in front, that file can be anywhere in my entire filesystem and it will just find the first match and use it? |
| 06:50:34 | [Saint] | I had thought that bookmarks worked similarly, but this calls that into question pretty drastically. |
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| 06:53:29 | [Saint] | It pained me to do so, but I kinda turned my back on the Android port. A lot of people wasted a lot of time on it. And, its very, very sad. |
| 06:53:44 | orzo | oh? |
| 06:53:46 | [Saint] | Countless hours lost barking up the wrong tree, as it were. |
| 06:53:53 | orzo | why? |
| 06:54:01 | orzo | i'm running it on android emu and it seems pretty slick |
| 06:54:09 | orzo | i didn't expet the touch screen to work so well |
| 06:54:12 | [Saint] | The only way Rockbox makes sense on Android is as a central Rockbox playback library with a native UI. |
| 06:54:24 | [Saint] | At present, bringing our own UI to the party only hurts us. |
| 06:55:06 | orzo | a rockbox playback library would be useful for my app |
| 06:55:13 | [Saint] | one exists. |
| 06:55:30 | orzo | i wrote my app to replace my rockbox mp3 player for audio books, android audio book players were disatisfying to me |
| 06:55:31 | [Saint] | you might want to look at the warble library. |
| 06:55:54 | orzo | but certain features don't exist in android's MediaPlayer component/service. Such as playback speed and pitch control |
| 06:56:03 | orzo | those features are significant for audio books in my opinion |
| 06:56:47 | orzo | is warble related to rockbox? |
| 06:56:53 | [Saint] | Warble is in infancy still, just a proof of concept for a GSoC task, but it might provide a fine base to grow from for someone who wanted it. |
| 06:57:00 | [Saint] | Yes, inded it is. |
| 06:57:33 | [Saint] | I believe there's only very basic playback and seeking implemented thus far. |
| 06:57:39 | [Saint] | and no one has poked it in years. |
| 06:57:53 | orzo | hm |
| 06:58:09 | orzo | well i was thinking i could get gthe features i wanted by using mplayer |
| 06:59:28 | orzo | does warble have a home page? |
| 06:59:53 | orzo | found http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/StandaloneAudioLibrary |
| 07:00 |
| 07:00:00 | [Saint] | that's the one. |
| 07:00:17 | | Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 07:00:23 | [Saint] | Its not well documented, but it still compiles. |
| 07:01:59 | orzo | does it use rockbox's latest audio code or is sort of branched off on its own and rotting? |
| 07:02:01 | [Saint] | I feel like kicking myself for my Rockbox/Android ventures. |
| 07:02:09 | [Saint] | I backed the wrong horse. |
| 07:02:18 | orzo | why |
| 07:02:23 | orzo | i mean |
| 07:02:27 | orzo | it looks good to me |
| 07:02:39 | [Saint] | I really thought we could do it, and do it well, with our own theme engine as the primary UI. |
| 07:02:54 | [Saint] | But that makes things so awkward its not even funny. |
| 07:03:06 | [Saint] | the main problem, resolution specific binaries. |
| 07:03:19 | orzo | yes i read that on the wiki |
| 07:03:30 | orzo | but the wiki mentions there's a dynamic branch |
| 07:03:39 | orzo | dynamic resolution branch of rockbox |
| 07:03:46 | orzo | seems like a simple solution to me |
| 07:04:03 | orzo | why not just distribute a build based on that? |
| 07:04:41 | [Saint] | That came with its own mishaps, I'm not overly sure whay it was abandoned but I think the general consensus was that it wasn't "The Right Way" to do it. |
| 07:05:08 | [Saint] | "The Right Way" being a centralized library and a native UI. |
| 07:06:08 | [Saint] | Its fine for people who are prepared to compile for their own devices, though. And almost perfectly usable. |
| 07:09:00 | orzo | well is the native ui + centralized library ever going to happen? because if the "right way" isn't likely to happen any time soon, then maybe the wrong way isn't such a bad idea |
| 07:09:07 | orzo | heh |
| 07:09:25 | [Saint] | Will it ever happen isn;t something I can answer. I can however say: |
| 07:09:34 | [Saint] | "No one is working towards this /now/." |
| 07:09:57 | orzo | do you use rockbox on your android? |
| 07:10:35 | [Saint] | Not for a while. |
| 07:11:09 | [Saint] | I worked towards creating a largely resolution agnostic theme for a while, and I'm most of the way there, but real life got in the way. |
| 07:11:23 | [Saint] | That's the story for a lot of us. |
| 07:11:26 | [Saint] | Real life happened. |
| 07:11:39 | [Saint] | Getting old, family, work stuffs, higher learning, etc. |
| 07:11:40 | orzo | you make it sound like rockbox has stalled |
| 07:11:44 | [Saint] | It has. |
| 07:11:48 | orzo | oh crap |
| 07:11:48 | [Saint] | Its no secret. |
| 07:12:16 | [Saint] | There's still a few active submitters, but thoughput is nowhere near what it was, say, 2 years ago. |
| 07:13:04 | orzo | well i'm a fan of the project going back years |
| 07:13:11 | orzo | i loved my rockbox mp3 player |
| 07:13:29 | [Saint] | The last GSoC attempt was a bit of a failure, and I don't think anyone has bothered for recent GSoC's. |
| 07:13:37 | [Saint] | Its hard to attract new life to the project. |
| 07:13:46 | [Saint] | But I'd love it to happen. Just not sure how. |
| 07:14:08 | orzo | well i was going to advertise compatibilty with my app |
| 07:15:46 | orzo | was the touchscreen ui support added for the android port or was that already in the works? rockbox doesn't really support any touchscreen mp3 players that i know of... |
| 07:15:59 | [Saint] | It was already there. |
| 07:16:04 | [Saint] | For the Cown D2. |
| 07:16:10 | [Saint] | *Cowon |
| 07:16:24 | [Saint] | (a very obscure device I'm not surprised you're not familiar with) |
| 07:18:33 | orzo | do you think android/smartphones has hurt rockbox's vitality? people use those devices for their mp3 playing needs now? |
| 07:18:43 | [Saint] | Definitely. |
| 07:19:24 | orzo | well clearly your android efforts should not be wasted |
| 07:19:37 | [Saint] | They've /almost/ completely killed the DAP market. Now there's only the cheap semi-disposable types (think gym bunnies), and the high end audiophile types. |
| 07:20:09 | orzo | i notice that my e280 hasn't depreciated at all if it worked |
| 07:20:19 | orzo | it sells for more than what i paid in fact |
| 07:20:21 | orzo | heh |
| 07:21:07 | [Saint] | Well, I shouldn;t say "only", there's definitely still midrange consumer DAPs still on the market, but they're getting rare. |
| 07:21:35 | [Saint] | Joe Average doesn't want to carry multiple devices and is fine with shitty audio and lack of features. |
| 07:22:25 | foolsh | e200s are hefty feeling, the scroll wheel is a bit plasticy feeling, but it's a solid build I have three :) |
| 07:22:33 | orzo | i was early to the linux-based smartphone craze, i had an openmoko before android was released |
| 07:22:50 | [Saint] | Oh wow. That old chesnut. |
| 07:22:52 | [Saint] | Heh. |
| 07:23:04 | [Saint] | I guess you had an N900 too? |
| 07:23:08 | * | [Saint] still does |
| 07:23:14 | orzo | that system sucked, and i though tthey should use rockbox as a base instead and add phone features |
| 07:23:22 | [Saint] | hahahaha |
| 07:23:27 | orzo | i sold my openmoko |
| 07:24:44 | orzo | well it probably was a good idea |
| 07:24:59 | orzo | rockbox would be an alternate firmware for android phones then |
| 07:26:36 | orzo | we'd dual boot maybe |
| 07:29:55 | orzo | by the way, the touch-senstive seek bar is a disaster for audio books |
| 07:30:08 | orzo | rockbox without a touch screen doesn't ahve that issue |
| 07:30:21 | orzo | but i notice the android port makes the same annoying mistake as all the damn android apps |
| 07:31:20 | orzo | not sure why it happened |
| 07:31:36 | orzo | gues the Cowen guys dropped that ball |
| 07:46:56 | | Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:00 |
| 08:01:14 | orzo | i think that the "right way" development doesnt make sense at this time considering how finished the android port is. I think the project should finish up your resolution-independent theme and release for android asap |
| 08:01:23 | orzo | it makes no sense to throw away all the work you've done |
| 08:02:29 | orzo | it'd probably help attract new developers |
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| 09:25:35 | natanelho | hi ppl |
| 09:26:28 | natanelho | i started to program with lua on rockbox. can some1 give me ideas for a project? |
| 09:27:16 | natanelho | ? |
| 09:27:48 | | Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@rockbox/developer/stripwax) |
| 09:30:20 | natanelho | maybe U can give me an idea for a project? |
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| 09:42:32 | natanelho | can i call c functions in lua for rb? |
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| 11:17:48 | wodz | Anyone knows the details of our sd driver? What I found peculiar is that cmd(SD_SEND_IF_COND,0x1aa, &response, R3) expects 0x1aa in response for sd_v2 cards. In fact low 8bits of response is crc + end bit. That means that driver is supposed to strip crc field. BUT in parse_csd() the fields are extracted as if crc was there. I don't get this |
| 11:22:23 | wodz | Is it because we reverse the word order for R2 response? |
| 11:22:31 | wodz | amiconn: ? |
| 11:23:12 | * | amiconn doesn't know the SD driver |
| 11:23:23 | amiconn | Only MMC, and that driver is Ondio specific |
| 11:23:38 | amiconn | ...and uses SPI mode |
| 11:25:34 | wodz | amiconn: but wrote card_extract_bits() which confuses me |
| 11:25:57 | wodz | amiconn: it seems like it expects words in reversed order |
| 11:26:24 | wodz | I mean it expects bit[31:0] in response[3] |
| 11:30:35 | | Quit stripwax (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) |
| 11:31:16 | wodz | amiconn: ? |
| 11:33:37 | wodz | hmm, seems like most controllers strips crc field in hw. |
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| 13:05:03 | pamaury | wodz: just passing by, the sd code expects words to be swapped (at least on imx I swap the response words) |
| 13:05:49 | pamaury | and also the CRC is always stripped by the hardware (otherwise it wouldn't fit). The SEND_IF_COND contains a pattern (0xaa) which the device must send back that's why the answer is 0x1aa iird |
| 13:05:52 | pamaury | *iirc |
| 13:05:56 | wodz | pamaury: on atj it is even worst I think as RESP0 contains CRC7 + end bit |
| 13:06:21 | pamaury | that's seems very unlikely, where would you fit this in 32-bit ?! |
| 13:06:22 | wodz | there are RESP0-RESP4 on atj |
| 13:06:30 | pamaury | ah ok |
| 13:06:36 | pamaury | weird |
| 13:06:47 | pamaury | but the hardware does crc checking for you ? |
| 13:06:48 | wodz | RESP4 is only 8bits - exactly this |
| 13:07:16 | wodz | yes and no. It calculates crc but I need to manually compare RESP0 & 0xff with calculated value |
| 13:07:20 | pamaury | (also some requests must not be CRC checked) |
| 13:07:32 | pamaury | ok |
| 13:08:26 | wodz | now I guess I am facing some timing problems as sometimes the code works, sometimes not |
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| 18:26:05 | wodz | pamaury: what is CMD23 at the very end of imx233 sd card init? |
| 18:26:39 | pamaury | CMD23 is SET_BLOCK_COUNT |
| 18:26:40 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 18:26:50 | wodz | what it is good for? |
| 18:27:37 | pamaury | it avoids doing open-ended transfers for read/write. On device which support it, it is usually faster to specify the block count in advance |
| 18:27:58 | wodz | interesting |
| 18:28:13 | pamaury | I added it because it's essentially free: MMC uses CMD23 anyway, it's mandatory, so on SD it's only a matter of probing support |
| 18:28:44 | wodz | and support it in read/write routine, right? |
| 18:29:05 | pamaury | yes but because I need to support it for mmc anyway... |
| 18:30:02 | pamaury | essentially the difference is that instead of doing SD_READ, xfer * N, STOP_TRANSMISSION you do SET_BLOCK_COUNT(N), SD_READ, xfer * N |
| 18:30:20 | pamaury | (except on error) |
| 18:30:28 | wodz | pamaury: Could you remind me what why we do data transfer after SD_SWITCH_FUNC ? |
| 18:31:34 | pamaury | SD_SWITCH_FUNC returns 64-byte of data which contain information about High-Speed support iirc |
| 18:32:21 | pamaury | however on imx233 I ran into the issue that some cards advertising High-Speed mode don't work well at this speed. Maybe the problem comes from incorrect pull-ups / drive strength, I don't know |
| 18:32:27 | pamaury | so it's disabled |
| 18:33:34 | wodz | not getting this 64bytes from card is a bug, right? |
| 18:34:57 | pamaury | absolutely |
| 18:35:05 | pamaury | on some cards it will confuse the device |
| 18:35:34 | pamaury | at least I ran into some cards which were quite unhappy when one did not retrieve the data |
| 18:35:43 | wodz | So rk27xx driver is buggy then. I could swear I fixed this once. Maybe in some local branch :-( |
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| 18:36:06 | pamaury | iirc we identified this bug together, so I thought you fixed it too |
| 18:36:40 | wodz | I definitely forgot to push this for rk27xx |
| 18:37:31 | wodz | pamaury: Anyway, I can chat with the card on ATJ. Now I need to get data. |
| 18:37:44 | pamaury | cool :) |
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| 18:38:23 | wodz | I didn't try switching card to 4bit mode but OF does this so I don't expect problems |
| 18:39:31 | wodz | pamaury: Do you know if there is some const field (like all 0s or 1s) in CSD so I can be sure I did byte shifting right? |
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| 18:41:34 | pamaury | there is the CSD_STRUCTURE slice at 127:126 which contains the CSD version, it's usually 1 |
| 18:41:55 | pamaury | or 0 (standard capacity) (1 is high capacity) |
| 18:42:18 | wodz | it reads as 0 on my 2GB card |
| 18:42:22 | pamaury | at 73:62 there is C_SIZE that's the device size |
| 18:42:43 | pamaury | and at 49:47 there is C_SIZE_MULT |
| 18:43:06 | pamaury | equation is: memory capacity = BLOCKNR * BLOCK_LEN |
| 18:43:24 | pamaury | where BLOCKNR = (C_SIZE+1) * MULT |
| 18:43:24 | pamaury | where MULT = 2^(C_SIZE_MULT+2) |
| 18:43:43 | pamaury | where BLOCK_LEN = 2^(READ_BL_LEN) |
| 18:44:03 | pamaury | and READ_BL_LEN is at slice 83:80 |
| 18:44:42 | pamaury | beware that all slices numbers include the CRC, ie CRC is at slice 7:1 |
| 18:45:01 | wodz | Thanks, I need to crosscheck this values. |
| 18:45:52 | wodz | pamaury: I know. I *think* thats why we use reversed word order. That way, counting backward we don't have to take into account CRC and end bit |
| 18:46:25 | wodz | and sd_parse_csd() uses regular slices |
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| 18:47:19 | pamaury | ah and I forgot, the device size computation is different when CSD is 1.0 instead of 2.0 |
| 18:47:27 | pamaury | best is to look at sd_parse_csd |
| 18:47:50 | pamaury | indeed make sense |
| 18:48:51 | wodz | is there a way to read CSD from PC? |
| 18:49:05 | wodz | I mean placing card into reader |
| 18:50:08 | pamaury | yeah I think so, using /proc or /sys |
| 18:50:10 | pamaury | let me check that |
| 18:50:49 | wodz | yeah, /sys |
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| 18:50:59 | wodz | you 'only' need to find proper path :P |
| 18:51:10 | pamaury | cat /sys/bus/mmc/devices/mmcX:Y/csd |
| 18:51:29 | pamaury | there won't be much choice for X and Y, actually one if you have only one card inserted |
| 18:51:39 | wodz | right |
| 19:00 |
| 19:08:11 | wodz | hmm, linux reports csd with cleared crc7 and end bit and apparently not right shifted |
| 19:10:55 | wodz | I am truly confused |
| 19:18:37 | | Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 19:19:29 | [Franklin] | wodz: another world doesn't look that bad in grayscale, to me at least |
| 19:19:36 | [Franklin] | just the dark scenes look bad |
| 19:19:55 | [Franklin] | like the underwater scene |
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| 20:11:43 | pamaury | wodz: did you figure out your csd problem ? |
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| 20:13:31 | wodz | not yet, I am still in the middle of the process of sending my children to bed |
| 20:16:37 | wodz | pamaury: yeah looks like I figured out |
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| 20:20:57 | wodz | now I get timeout on send_cmd(CMD.SET_CLR_CARD_DETECT, 0, RES.R1, rsp) |
| 20:23:45 | pamaury | I'm puzzled, I don't find anything in the spec saying this is mandatory |
| 20:24:26 | wodz | I took this from one of our drivers |
| 20:24:44 | | Quit n17ikh (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 20:25:02 | wodz | anyway If I comment this out it timeouts on next one which is send_cmd(CMD.SWITCH_FUNC, 0x80fffff1, RES.R1, rsp) |
| 20:25:19 | | Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 20:26:59 | pamaury | what is the last command sent before this ? |
| 20:27:27 | wodz | send_cmd(CMD.SET_BUS_WIDTH, 2, RES.R1, rsp) |
| 20:27:46 | | Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 20:27:52 | pamaury | did you tell the controller to switch to 4-bit mode ? |
| 20:28:07 | wodz | for commands it doesn't matter |
| 20:28:38 | pamaury | but for data it matters in switch_func it does ;) but yeah you have a point |
| 20:28:39 | pamaury | by the way, if you do this in lua, it would be very interesting to have some generic |
| 20:29:19 | pamaury | I guess you paid attention that set_bus_width is a ACMD so you first send APP_CMD and then the command ? |
| 20:29:36 | * | pamaury goes for dinner |
| 20:29:44 | wodz | akhm, that might be that |
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| 20:33:11 | wodz | yeah, that was it |
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| 20:34:14 | [Franklin] | \o foolsh |
| 20:34:43 | copper | o/ |
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| 21:08:38 | foolsh | o/ [Franklin] |
| 21:16:39 | foolsh | \o copper |
| 21:17:31 | wodz | hmm, OF calcs CRC7 only for R1 response |
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| 21:27:06 | [Saint] | In a 'compiling RaaA for Android' guide, should I bother explaining about getting multiarch working on 'elderly' debianesque systems, or, just say fuck it and tell them to upgrade to a modern distribution. |
| 21:27:27 | [Saint] | If I do the former, literally 3/4 of the guide revolves around setting up the environment. |
| 21:27:38 | [Saint] | some several hundred lines. |
| 21:27:44 | | Quit przemhb (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 21:28:16 | [Saint] | If I do the latter, I can avoid it completely, but anyone on - say 11.* or lower will wonder why it doesn't work. |
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| 21:41:54 | wodz | damn, I again hit the problem of card not reporting being in TRAN state |
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| 21:59:01 | | Quit y4n (Quit: Assumption is the mother of all fuckups) |
| 21:59:01 | foolsh | [Saint]: I vote for keeping the howto's current and updated, perhaps move the older info to a "support for legacy systems" page |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:38 | foolsh | Or better yet "unsupported legacy systems" |
| 22:01:02 | [Saint] | I have chosen to just completely ignore Windows and OSX. |
| 22:01:15 | [Saint] | Even though its possible to compile on both. Fuck that. |
| 22:01:47 | [Saint] | The Windows guide would be about a thousand lines explaining setting up Cygwin and Windows path fuckery. |
| 22:02:18 | [Saint] | ...maybe I should just make a VM image for the Windows guys. |
| 22:03:23 | foolsh | and osx could use it as well |
| 22:03:48 | foolsh | throw in rbutil and you can have it all |
| 22:03:58 | [Saint] | I initially wanted to make it largely distribution agnostic, but the required magic to detect the host system, or the added text to tell the user what to do in cases X, Y, Z, X1, Y1, Z1...etc, was driving me insane. |
| 22:04:18 | [Saint] | I ended up just saying "debianesque systems". |
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| 22:12:09 | foolsh | cygwin is not colinux, right? |
| 22:12:23 | [Saint] | afaik, no. |
| 22:12:36 | | Quit rela (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 22:12:37 | * | foolsh wonders if colinux would be a more uniform |
| 22:12:53 | [Saint] | How so? |
| 22:13:34 | foolsh | it's more self contained if I remember correctly, it keeps to itself indepedent of windows |
| 22:14:11 | foolsh | where cygwin tried to bring the gnu tools into windows |
| 22:14:42 | [Saint] | Cygwin still attempts to be largely self contained. |
| 22:14:50 | [Saint] | But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're meaning. |
| 22:17:17 | foolsh | instead of setting up cygwin, just having a colinux file system and a terminal to run commands, just seems like the shortest path |
| 22:17:39 | foolsh | but it's been so long ago for me |
| 22:17:55 | foolsh | I can't go back you can't make me |
| 22:18:04 | * | foolsh has a flash back |
| 22:18:30 | [Saint] | yeah, that would be a LOT of work for Jow Windowsuser. |
| 22:18:33 | [Saint] | *Joe |
| 22:19:05 | [Saint] | At least with Cygwin I can just say "install this, and put this conf file here" and it'll automagically pull in all required dependencies. |
| 22:19:35 | [Saint] | If the user needs to do it all manually, they may as well jump onto debian. |
| 22:19:55 | * | foolsh nods |
| 22:19:56 | petur | don't know how they are now, but colinux was just as much a PITA as cygwin |
| 22:20:19 | * | [Saint] votes for avoiding the clusterfuck entirely. ;) |
| 22:20:36 | [Saint] | I'll just target Debian, and distribute a virtual machine image. |
| 22:20:46 | petur | yup... proper linux in a VM (or just boot linux) |
| 22:20:56 | [Saint] | well...s/debian/debianesque systems/ |
| 22:21:14 | [Saint] | Perhaps I should explain what "debianesque" is to the user. |
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| 23:25:48 | nothingmuch | Hi, i have a sansa clip+, just installed rockbox and I'm really happy with it... the only issue is it's crowded in the menus, and I was thinking of taking the time to build my own rockbox so it's how i like it |
| 23:26:15 | nothingmuch | but before I invest in a dev environment, I wanted to ask if there's a reason that setting menu items (not actual settings, but locations in the settings menu) and database entries are not supported in shortcuts? |
| 23:26:46 | [Franklin] | nothingmuch: you can configure the main menu with the plugin apps/main_menu_config |
| 23:27:04 | [Franklin] | (only in the dev builds, though) |
| 23:27:13 | [Franklin] | 3.13 and before don't have the plugin |
| 23:28:14 | nothingmuch | is it documented apart from the .c file? |
| 23:28:30 | [Franklin] | it's quite self-explanatory :p |
| 23:28:57 | [Saint] | The manual documents editing the main menu manually, not sure about the plugin. |
| 23:29:12 | [Saint] | please note that this is limited to the main menu only. |
| 23:29:29 | [Saint] | If you want to configure submenus, you're pretty much fucked. |
| 23:29:48 | [Saint] | Its /possible/ to do so, but its a lot of work for incredibly little gain. |
| 23:30:05 | [Saint] | If you don't know what it does, just don't use it...pretty much. |
| 23:30:24 | nothingmuch | so from a bit more of a user story perspective |
| 23:30:34 | [Saint] | The defaults of Rockbox are supposed to be good enough so that Joe Average can simply pick it up and use it without changing anything. |
| 23:30:44 | nothingmuch | either I go full on OCD or I just keep it as is |
| 23:30:51 | [Saint] | Right. |
| 23:30:57 | [Saint] | That's pretty much it, yes. |
| 23:31:03 | [Franklin] | ... or write useless game plugins for it :p |
| 23:32:02 | nothingmuch | so full on OCD is worth it to me even if i waste a good while, but i don't think my problem is with the menus (i actually like having it all there) but the limitations of the shortcut system |
| 23:32:15 | nothingmuch | i guess I should just code dive and see how that's implemented |
| 23:32:26 | [Franklin] | nothingmuch: what would you like to see in it, specifically? |
| 23:32:43 | [Saint] | The main issue is that it can't display anything with dynamic content. |
| 23:33:00 | [Saint] | so, settings values, etc. |
| 23:33:08 | [Franklin] | only files, I think |
| 23:33:20 | [Saint] | Files and toplevel menu paths. |
| 23:33:32 | [Saint] | and simple on/off settings, IIRC. |
| 23:33:43 | nothingmuch | i'd like to be able to jump to the compressor and crossfeed menus (not the actual sub settings, they are too fine grained), and into the database categories |
| 23:33:45 | [Saint] | anything with a dynamic value can't be in a shortcut. |
| 23:34:10 | [Saint] | The database...not sure. I think just no one cared too much about it. |
| 23:34:17 | [Saint] | No one's touched it in years. |
| 23:34:23 | [Saint] | Its nightmarish. |
| 23:34:34 | [Franklin] | [Saint]: I never figured it out :p |
| 23:34:36 | nothingmuch | ok then I think my time would probably be better spent organizing my music files =) |
| 23:34:40 | [Franklin] | what's the point of it? |
| 23:34:42 | [Saint] | Most of us use the file borwser. |
| 23:34:49 | [Franklin] | bowser |
| 23:34:58 | nothingmuch | i rescued some files from my dad's iphone and they're a mess but that's an easy fix |
| 23:35:26 | * | [Saint] recommends Musicbrainz Picard |
| 23:35:39 | [Saint] | Just point that at it and go. |
| 23:35:46 | nothingmuch | and I guess I can just live with the compressor threshold in the shortcuts for now |
| 23:35:53 | [Saint] | Its quite possibly the best tagging software ever. |
| 23:36:03 | nothingmuch | yeah it's awesome =) |
| 23:36:12 | nothingmuch | ok I guess you talked my down into a sane plan of action |
| 23:36:29 | [Saint] | The other issue with shortcuts is that they don't actually _enter_ the item you've created the shortcut to. |
| 23:36:42 | [Saint] | You have to actually "run" it or select it in many cases after the fact. |
| 23:36:50 | [Saint] | Somewhat annoying and largely defeats the purpose. |
| 23:37:01 | [Franklin] | it'd be nice if everything were a file in rockbox |
| 23:37:17 | [Saint] | o_o |
| 23:37:19 | [Franklin] | like making settings little plugins |
| 23:37:41 | [Franklin] | perhaps a little binary file that could be viewed by a "settings.rock" viewer |
| 23:38:20 | [Franklin] | and have them in the current menu structure, but under /.rockbox/settings/ |
| 23:38:23 | [Saint] | That sounds as though it would make localization needlessly difficult. |
| 23:38:36 | [Saint] | and vastly increase binsize. |
| 23:39:02 | [Franklin] | no... it'd just need to store the title and options |
| 23:39:21 | [Franklin] | which could both be pointers to a localized string |
| 23:39:29 | [Franklin] | (though I'm not sure that's how localization works) |
| 23:40:42 | [Franklin] | I think windows does something similar with .cpl files |
| 23:42:20 | [Franklin] | [Saint]: and plus, compiling it into the rockbox image would use roughly the same amount of space |
| 23:42:21 | nothingmuch | are you talking about leaf level settings or the entire hierarchy? |
| 23:42:32 | [Franklin] | entire hierarchy |
| 23:43:30 | [Franklin] | in /.rockbox/settings, there'd be a "index.rst" file that listed the names of other files in that directory to "include" |
| 23:43:59 | [Franklin] | as well as directories under .rockbox/settings |
| 23:44:15 | [Franklin] | and in each of those dirs is another index.rst |
| 23:44:32 | nothingmuch | i keep wanting to ask questions but I realize I don't know the right questions to ask, need to read some code first =) |
| 23:45:34 | nothingmuch | anyway, thanks for your time guys, i'll probably pester you some more in the coming days as I get used to things, and if a sane way to extend the shortcut system can be found I'd be happy to throw some mythical man hours at it |
| 23:46:16 | nothingmuch | i'd really love it if i could just treat the shortcuts as my "main menu" and have the main menu really be the "full menu" |
| 23:46:36 | nothingmuch | but that's just the control freak in me, i'm really elated by what rockbox gives me out of the box |
| 23:46:57 | nothingmuch | see you! |
| 23:47:06 | [Franklin] | \o |
| 23:47:10 | [Franklin] | laters |
| 23:47:12 | | Part nothingmuch |
| 23:48:56 | [Franklin] | [Saint]: like this: http://pastebin.com/6VJsEm7i |
| 23:53:05 | [Franklin] | the index file specification: http://pastebin.com/Awy3yZJh |
| 23:56:00 | [Franklin] | ah... the only problem would be callbacks |
| 23:56:03 | [Franklin] | :( |
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