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#rockbox log for 2014-12-01

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04:12:19jtdesigns01_Why does doom crash on the sansa fuze+ simulator?
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11:14:57wodzpamaury: ping
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11:21:55wodzpamaury: I was thinking about SD framework in lua. The main problem I can see is that data transfers needs to be performed in pio mode OR hwstub needs to have a way to reserve buffer in target memory to perform DMA
11:22:43wodzpamaury: Init should be simple to do (excluding data stage of some commands)
11:24:30wodzpamaury: Anyway this may be good opportunity to model abstraction layer to be ported to rb later.
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12:52:24pamaurywodz: pong
12:53:22pamauryI'm not sure what you mean by a "reserve buffer", you mean as in hwstub should be aware that he must not overwrite it?
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13:40:27wodzpamaury: something like this
13:41:35pamaurywodz: at the moment hwstub reports the memory ranges it uses
13:41:50pamaurymaybe we could add a way to reduce the usb buffer, or just a smaller size so that part of the ram is still free
13:42:40wodzmaybe small chunk at the end of the buffer
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15:12:43jtdesigns01_Why does doom crash on the sansa fuze+ simulator?
15:30:39gevaerts*probably* because there's a bug?
15:35:28copperCould you guys maybe release 440ff95 or some other pre-drastic-changes commit as 3.14?
15:35:41copperinstead of waiting for the perfect (future) time to make HEAD the new release
15:36:20copperbecause I don't see that time coming
15:36:27copperit's only going to get worse
15:40:24copper440ff95 is pretty much "stable", it fixes a lot of 3.13 bugs and it's withOUT new bugs from new stuff
15:42:35gevaertsThe main reason I'm hesitant about a new release (apart from the usual "someone has to decide to do it" procrastination thing) is that I don't feel confident *at all* that any recent revision (either before or after disruptive changes) is likely to work well on all (or even most) targets
15:42:48gevaertsWe just don't have people testing and reporting issues
15:43:06gevaertsWe used to have those, back before we decided to restart releases with 3.0 :)
15:43:40gevaertsToday, people run the lastest stable release, so things are not tested
15:44:05*gevaerts remembers that we had a release where someone noticed that the mr100 had no working sound a few weeks after the release...
15:44:30gevaertsSo I'm not even talking about obscure features here
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15:59:39copperthat's only going to get worse
16:00:07coppera new "stable" release is more likely to get issues reported, then you can release 3.14.1
16:03:32 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP)
16:03:37copperthat's likely the best course of action if you want remaining bugs to get reported
16:04:09copperbesides, 3.13 is super buggy
16:04:17copperhow could 3.14 be worse?
16:04:51copperremind me not to ask again
16:04:59gevaertsOh, asking is fine :)
16:05:04copperI tend to repeat myself a lot but I don't mean to
16:05:21gevaertsAnd yes, treating the .0 release as some sort of "Please test this, really!" is an option
16:06:27gevaertsBut then what if (blocking) bugs don't get fixed? We need to be able to roll back to a previous stable release for specific targets, ideally. I can't remember now if rbutil can do that...
16:08:39gevaertsSo we'd either release a .0 without knowing if it actually works for many targets and then fix for .1 (or roll back to the previous release), or we release .0 for targets where we *know* it works and offer RCs for other targets that people can test
16:09:47gevaertsAnd "know it works" is fairly basic (audio plays for common codecs, USB seems to be OK, it doesn't crash when you try to change the volume)
16:10:26copperwhat's the alternative? Never make a stable release again?
16:10:57gevaertsWhich is of course an option, but then we need to be up-front about it
16:11:35gevaertsThere were *years* between 2.5 and 3.0, during which time all of SWCODEC happened, so we've been there before
16:16:24 Join Strife89 [0] (
16:17:55copperthere's another factor to take into account: Rockboxable players are being phased out
16:18:48gevaertsWhich is why we should really demote targets to unstable if nobody uses them
16:20:04copperif they have known bugs
16:20:32gevaertsThat's the advantage of only doing stable releases for targets where someone was brave enough to say "It seems to work!"
16:21:09copperIt seems to work!
16:21:11copperthere, I said it
16:21:17coppercan we release now? :3
16:21:47gevaertsIf nobody has tested a target for a few years, it *will* have serious issues. You can allow one or two releases without a success report, but you can't keep doing that
16:22:46wodzIn theory we could release RC builds and promote to the stable only those we got feedback about
16:23:12wodzevery thing else will have oldstable + newstable-RC
16:23:35gevaertsYes. I'll try to catch bluebrother one of these days to try to remember what sort of flexibility rbutul gives us for that sort of thing. If we can do that out of the box, we should
16:24:40wodzthere is also this 'little' problem who will do the unpleasant work to release
16:24:48gevaertsYes :)
16:26:38copperwhat about the "ginormous" filesystem commit that is pretty much "undebuggable"
16:27:32pamaurywhat are the specific bugs we are talking about ? because the bug identified on rk27xx was in fact a driver bug
16:28:17copperwas the unicode filesystem bug fixed?
16:28:28wodzcopper: it was rk27xx bug. Massive filesystem rework dropped buffers aligning which sd driver relied on
16:30:09gevaertscopper: which one specifically? There was 5fd5b13 and c1bbaf40 that I remember
16:30:19gevaertsWere there other unicode-related bugs?
16:30:30copperfilenames beginning with a unicode character
16:30:41pamauryby the way, checking sd drivers buffer alignement could be a good thing, other drivers may be faulty too ?
16:30:45coppercan't remember what the problem was with those (not showing up, or something)
16:30:53gevaertsYes, c1bbaf40 is the fix for that
16:32:12copperok, off to class
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22:47:03przemhbhow to debug problem with WPS skin not being used (although chosen)?
22:47:19przemhbon Android RB
22:51:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:52:29[Saint]IS the skin applied after force closing (by default there's no shutdown, and, its annoying) Rockbox and launching it again?
22:53:55przemhbI have tried many times and it is not displayed at all
22:54:19przemhbsometimes it must have been applied after force closing
22:54:44przemhbbut I have applied it after uninstalling and reinstalling too
22:54:51przemhbit never shows
22:55:01[Saint]What theme is this?
22:56:11 Join [Franklin] [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin)
22:56:23przemhbfor example, and every other
22:56:53przemhbI use RB for Android for some 2 years by now. At first everything about skins worked fine
22:57:39przemhbthen, after some update RB started havving some issues - I got kernel panic, when I started playback
22:59:01przemhbI have used Chineese M9 skin, but modified to English or Polish
22:59:09przemhbit workedd fine for some time
23:00:12przemhbeventually I have cleaned my settings completely and started from scratches
23:01:27przemhbnow I have cabbie_v2 skin applied as a base skin
23:01:38przemhband would like it to have applied as WPS
23:02:05[Franklin]foolsh (logs): the cookie clicker code was meant as a joke ;D
23:02:44przemhbthere's not so many skins for 720x1280 to choose from
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23:04:28przemhbthe M9 WPS skin does not work too
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23:08:51[Saint]przemhb: are you saying that not even cabbiev2 will display? Like, does it not display _at all_, or can you jus not switch to it, or any other, theme? I'm slightly confused.
23:10:26przemhb[Saint]: cabbie_v2 displays, but not it's WPS
23:11:11przemhb[Saint]: so I cannot make any WPS skin to work
23:11:28[Saint]does it go to the fallback?
23:11:37przemhb[Saint]: unskinned RB is rather inconvenient ;)
23:11:44[Saint]I see.
23:12:43[Saint]Yes, the "grid mode" touchscreen interface of the fallback theme is...interesting.
23:13:25[Saint]Its possible to use it, after knowing which sections are defined as what, but it just seems like random poking and guessing as to which part of the screen does what. :)
23:14:15przemhbYes, that's right. I'm tired with it.
23:14:17[Saint]I haven't used a recent build of ROckbox for Andorid in quite some time. I can't really look at this right now, but I will do so later in the day/evening.
23:14:56przemhbI'd be thankful
23:15:57[Saint]It is possible that the buffer is being overflowed.
23:16:06przemhbThe most surprising was those kernel panics, when I used M9 skin (note it worked fine for a few months, and then after one update the problem started)
23:16:16[Saint]As in, there may just be "too much wps" for the given buffer.
23:16:35przemhbCan I help you somehow?
23:16:51[Saint]especially if you're using a particularly large glyph'ed font.
23:17:22przemhbwell it cannot be small for Android with 720p resolution
23:18:02[Saint]antialiased fonts with a large glyph height can be _reeeeeally_ massive.
23:20:34[Saint]And, all I really need is confirmation that it does indeed fail for you as reported with the current build of Rockbox, and a pastebin of your config.cfg may be helpful.
23:20:53 Join dunpeal [0] (~dunpeal@unaffiliated/dunpeal)
23:21:03[Saint]Then I can try and have a look at it and get it to fail on my end when I get home this evening.
23:21:22dunpealWould a Sansa Clip+ support a 128 GB memory card?
23:21:45copperformatted as FAT32, yes
23:22:17[Saint]If you say that it shows the behavior using cabbiev2, then I don't need anything special in terms of other themes to attempt to debug this.
23:22:38dunpealcopper: wow, thanks.
23:22:44dunpealthe prices are crazy right now btw
23:22:45[Saint]But, yeah, a pastebin of your config.cif and confirmation that the issue is present is a current build would be nice, thank you.
23:22:56dunpealyou can get a really fast 32GB for $13
23:23:09dunpealand a 64GB for $24
23:23:16[Saint](hands slipped off the keyboard, lol)
23:25:02przemhb[Saint]: so you will try to confirm that the buffer indeed gets overflowed; I have to remember myself how to put something in pastebin..
23:25:48dunpealI have a problem with the latest developer release for Clip Zip and Clip+
23:25:58dunpealIt's a long-standing bug apparently
23:26:30dunpealI created a playlist, and bookmarked it. but every time I auto-bookmark by stopping playback, it appears in "Recent Bookmarks" as a new entry.
23:27:42przemhb[Saint]: if the buffer get overflowed then it would explain those kernel panics on M9
23:29:25 Join RiDD [0] (
23:30:41[Saint]Thank you. I can have a look this evening when I am at home.
23:30:47 Nick charlie_ is now known as charlie (~c@unaffiliated/charlie)
23:32:58przemhbThank you. So I will ask you here tomorrow what you have found out.
23:33:43 Join ender| [0] (
23:33:52[Saint]I will be here.
23:34:04[Franklin][Saint] always is
23:34:53[Saint]The benefits of distributed IRC and a high uptime server. ;)
23:35:30[Franklin]no, I take that back...
23:35:35przemhbMe too, I think a few hours earlier than today
23:35:40[Franklin][Saint] has been offline
23:38:44przemhbOne more thing - in hardware version RB uses ".rockbox" folder, but in Android it seems to use "rockbox", not ".rockbox". Why? And how it searches for it if a phone has two SD cards (internal and SD card sensu stricte)?
23:50:05[Saint]For the first part of that, I am really not sure. I have no idea why it is a slightly different path (.rockbox vs. rockbox) on the Android app targets.
23:50:32[Saint]For the second part, I believe we always try to use internal storage.
23:51:25[Saint]I believe the emulated sdcard takes precedence over an external sdcard.
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