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#rockbox log for 2014-12-22

00:16:04 Join krabador [0] (~krabador_@unaffiliated/krabador)
00:18:05 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:24:51 Quit bertrik (Quit: Lost terminal)
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00:42:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:11:26[Franklin]would an 8x8 font be copyrightable?
01:11:52[Saint]why not?
01:12:29[Franklin]there's a small number of pixel arrangements that are legible at that size
01:12:50ZincAlloyoh, you can be quite creative, despite the small size
01:13:11[Saint]Its highly questionable, and I believe it varies wildly by locale, but by my understanding typefaces are copyrightable, yes.
01:13:21ZincAlloybut letter shapes themselves are usually not subject to copyright
01:14:00ZincAlloythey may be protected by design patents
01:14:09[Saint]there's other considerations, I believe, like a typeface's name might be an RTM potentially.
01:14:22ZincAlloyyes, definitely
01:14:36*[Franklin] doubts that is true for Another World
01:15:39[Saint]Aren't design patents exceedingly rare?
01:15:52[Saint]...I guess not for typefaces, it makes a deal of sense there.
01:16:36[Franklin]but this font in particular is not patented
01:16:43[Franklin]I don't even think it's named!
01:17:16[Saint]"A legal precedent was set in the case of Adobe Systems, Inc. v. Southern Software, Inc. (SSI).[9] SSI had used the FontMonger program to copy and rename fonts from Adobe and others.[9] They assumed safety from prosecution because, though they had directly copied the points that define the shapes from Adobe's fonts, they had made slight adjustments to all the points so they were not technically identical.[9] Nevertheless, it was determined that the
01:17:17[Saint]computer code had been copied."
01:17:26[Saint]That doesn't bode well for us.
01:18:01[Franklin]not if I use a different font :P
01:19:22ZincAlloy"First, the short answer in the USA: Typefaces are not copyrightable; bitmapped fonts are not copyrightable, but scalable fonts are copyrightable."
01:19:36[Franklin]this is a bitmapped font
01:20:54[Franklin]but US law doesn't apply here, right?
01:21:03[Franklin]rockbox servers are in sweden IIRC
01:21:53 Join advcomp2019__ [0] (~advcomp20@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
01:23:27[Franklin]"For example, in many parts of Europe typeface designs are protectable.
01:23:38[Franklin]but not a _font_
01:24:23ZincAlloynow imagine the font without a typeface design :)
01:25:29[Franklin]if I can't use the original font it's fine, I've got decent replacements for all but the lowercase letters
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01:51:50 Join Sparkie [0] (
01:51:55Sparkiehey lads
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02:43:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:43:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:54:56 Join Aurorlock [0] (
08:55:16Aurorlockdoes the iPod classc (6th gen) have any skins yet? Just found out about rockbox
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09:14:06[Saint]'just a few'...
09:14:19Aurorlockthanks for that :)
09:14:40AurorlockI saw a lot of your posts in the forums, seems like you're a pretty big help
09:15:02AurorlockDef appreciate the work that goes into the projects. I'm just pissed Apple doesn't have more codecs available
09:16:26[Saint]its mostly the batshit insane file obfuscation and filesystem layout that drove me insane.
09:16:45[Saint]the fact that it wasn't at all trivial to retrieve your own media.
09:17:41[Saint]there were various tools to 'de-itunes-ify' the media thereon, but it was a pain in the ass.
09:18:04[Saint]and only being able to sync against a single host or account.
09:18:13[Saint]anyway - gah.
09:23:52 Quit Gallomimia (Quit: I am likely going to change locations)
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10:01:55 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
10:03:09Aurorlockdid they encrypt it on top of obfuscating?
10:03:17Aurorlockjust to piss people off that much more?
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10:43:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:43:49*kugel glares at 1ff5fd4
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12:10:50 Join krabador [0] (~krabador_@unaffiliated/krabador)
12:12:30alexbobpis there a way to adjust the backlight brightness on ipod mini?
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13:14:49alexbobpfound a patch on the tracker ( ), wish me luck!
13:19:12alexbobpuh oh it doesn't apply at all :(
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13:53:35alexbobpso can anyone help me... I got it to build... after doing horable things (my ipod is probably about to explode)... but which file do I replace?
13:53:38alexbobpjust rockbox.ipod?
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16:07:27 Quit krabador (Quit: Take the time.)
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19:18:44natanelhocan someone help me?
19:24:21natanelhowhen i rtyied to install bootloader on my creative zen, i got this error:
19:24:21natanelho./sendfirm32: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
19:24:30natanelhowhat does that mean?
19:27:03 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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19:27:56thomasjfoxnatanelho: do you have a file by that name?
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20:11:01natanelhothomasjfox: yes
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20:43:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:47:33thomasjfoxoh well, for the record: LD_LIBRARY_PATH might be an option to check
20:55:15 Quit RiD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.)
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21:33:39 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP)
21:35:47*[Saint] isn't sure what exactly is apparently non-obvious about repeat one making it impossible to skip tracks
21:36:07[Saint]in my mind, any implementation that allows track skipping during repeat one is broken.
21:36:14*[Saint] shrugs
21:36:33ZincAlloyno skipping to the next one to repeat!
21:37:20ZincAlloywhat's keeping #956 from being commited? someone asked for an album art enabled version of my theme a couple of days ago..
21:37:30[Saint]You made a choice to repeat _one_ song, for ever and ever, ad infinitum. Deal with it.
21:38:07ZincAlloyyou should put that in the manual
21:38:54ZincAlloyor rewrite the complete manual with that attitude. would make an entertaining read..
21:39:03*thomasjfox thinks he found a missing break; statement
21:39:10thomasjfox[rockbox/apps/plugins/zxbox/tapefile.c:674] -> [rockbox/apps/plugins/zxbox/tapefile.c:681]: (warning) Buffer 'seg_desc' is being written before its old content has been used. 'break;' missing?
21:39:12ZincAlloypeople would start actually reading it :D
21:39:51[Saint]ZincAlloy: I think, though its possibly speculative, that there's some amount of apprehension about committing this patch because a: not a lot of committers are comfortable with android/application code, and b: there's a general idea that this is just replacing one terrible way of handling it for another, and that it delays the 'right' fix.
21:40:05[Saint]the 'right' fix being a dynamically allocated buffer.
21:40:43ZincAlloyI see
21:40:59[Saint]lumping away chunks of static buffer makes some sense for the DAPs, but not so much for app targets.
21:41:31[Saint]It _should_ be committed in the interim, though, in my opinion.
21:41:48[Saint]I tried to make that happen a few days ago, I should bring it up on the ML.
21:42:18[Saint]EVen if it is the 'wrong' way to handle it, if no one is interested in the 'right' way, its better than leaving anything 480p or higher in a broken state.
21:43:28[Saint]Chiwen Chang has quite a few Android contributions I'd like to see committed actually.
21:43:31[Saint]There's a couple of my own, too.
21:43:53[Saint]I need to finish up finalizing
21:44:16[Saint]and redo my 'shutdown for all targets' patch for a bit more sanity.
21:44:28[Saint]the app targets need a shutdown.
21:44:41ZincAlloyresume playback by long press on the back button would improve useability a lot
21:44:57ZincAlloyat least for the way I'd like to use it
21:44:59[Saint]having to go to apps -> <app> -> force close on Android is *not* fun.
21:45:06thomasjfox[Saint]: you mean a Shutdown menu entry? I'm all for it
21:45:32[Saint]ZincAlloy: that back button handling is hideous and goes against the Android ethos quite dramatically.
21:45:32thomasjfoxprobably "Quit" is a better name
21:45:47[Saint]a back button absolutely should not work that way, and we shouldn;t hijack it when hosted.
21:46:00 Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection)
21:46:35ZincAlloywell.. there's also the menu button
21:46:59ZincAlloylong press triggers the context menu
21:47:05ZincAlloywhich is kinda useless
21:47:14ZincAlloya long tap on the screen will do the same thing
21:47:28 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP)
21:50:43ZincAlloyit would be nice to have this action assigned to a button. it was the first thing I missed, so I put a little button in my theme..
21:51:17ZincAlloyI'm also missing a quickscreen button.
21:53:18ZincAlloyIt's not all that quick when it's not assigned to a button...
22:01:33 Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection)
22:03:02 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP)
22:07:46pixelmaspeaking of useless and android / touch screen handling. Is there something I'm missing to set a and b markers for ab repeat in absolute mode? I've asked before but got no good answer, the reason I'm asking is because a touch enabled skin lets me enable ab repeat so I'd have to deal with it when making a theme (or surpress this part of the repeat modes)
22:09:20[Saint]pixelma: since there's no (afaik) explicite touch action for this, you'd need to do a 'none' touch area, and watch for it being accessed and use setting_set
22:10:10[Saint]Oh...actually, I'm not sure that would work either.
22:10:35[Saint]I don't think A/B repeat sets a config.cfg option, does it?
22:10:45pixelmaI don't think a and b markers are real settings (otherwise I'd expect them to be in the usual repeat menu too)
22:10:53[Saint]and we can only manipulate those with setting_set
22:11:01[Saint]right - yeah, bummer.
22:11:53pixelmaI'd *imagine* that the reason it is enabled at all would be that it's settable in grid mode but I admit I haven't checked
22:12:39[Saint]I do not believe this to be the case.
22:15:13[Saint]and, somewhat hilariously, there's absolutely zero documentation about the grid mode functions.
22:16:33[Saint]I can't seem to find any way to trigger it using grid mode myself, but there's a chance I'm screwing it up I guess. Though my screen is plenty large enough that I shouldn't be getting the 3x3 grid spacing wrong.
22:17:26[Saint]ah - actually, there's *is* documentation, woo! I'm an idiot.
22:17:34[Saint]Its just _really_ hard to use.
22:19:24[Saint]pixelma: I could possible add it as a hotkey function if you're really passionate about it? I'm not too familiar with adding touchscreen areas, but I know I could add to the existing hotkey function trivially.
22:19:46pixelmahmm... on few button targets the same button is used to enable ab repeat, set a marker, set b marker so maybe the ab repeat touch area could work the same but it doesn't seem to do so when trying with cabbiev2 on my phone
22:19:58[Saint]checking the .wps controls for the D2, there doesn't seem to be A/B repeat on grid mode, no.
22:20:27[Saint]pixelma: oh, hmm, that's a better idea than using hotkey...possibly.
22:20:38[Saint]somewhat non-obvious maybe, but potentially cleaner.
22:21:09[Saint]It looks like we ran out of functions on grid-mode in the .wps
22:21:16pixelmawell, I'm not too passionate to have it because I don't use this function myself just noticed that the possibility of enabling and disabling the mode was there and wondered
22:21:30[Saint]A/B repeat was likely considered of lesser importance.
22:21:38[Saint]all cells in the grid are populated.
22:23:40[Saint]pixelma: the only thing about using the repeat icon I'm not convinced about is that there'd be no visual difference between A/B repeat enabled but not set, and A/B repeat ebaled and set.
22:23:53 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:24:21[Saint]besides that I think its infinitely better than my hotkey idea.
22:27:04 Quit ender` (Quit: You must know by now we Brits are going metric inch by inch! -- Greg Chapman)
22:34:17pixelmaI'd imagine there being different icons and you'd possibly cycle through the repeat modes: all, one, shuffled, set a for a/b repeat, set b for a/b repeat - or have a separate set marker(s) touch action. Hmm... this needs more thinking, but currently you can enable or disable something that you can't really use in most touch screen themes. For my own I could live with skipping that mode completely, I just wonder why no-one else complained so far
22:34:49pixelmaor at least asked :)
22:37:23 Join JanC [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
22:37:45ZincAlloylast time I tried using a-b mode on the clip zip was a nightmare. using a combination of keys to set a and b points is rather clumsy..
22:41:59 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)
22:43:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:46:53[Saint]pixelma: honestly, I think its a very infrequently used feature.
22:47:07[Saint]you're one of the very few people I've evr seen mention it.
22:53:51 Quit thomasjfox (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
22:54:14pixelmaand I only noticed when thinking about it from a theme maker perspective (how to represent a/b repeat and then... why represent it...)
22:55:02*[Saint] really needs to pick his theme work back up again and finish it
22:55:27*[Saint] also really needs to figure out why android 5.x and Rockbox don't get along
22:55:52*pixelma 's theme is still mostly in her head only
22:56:15[Saint]I've had to specifically refrain from updating one of my devices just for the sake of keeping Rockbox
22:56:59[Saint]but I'm aware I'm only one of the literally less than 1% of the Android userbase who's actually using 5.0.2 now
23:03:37 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
23:09:55 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:10:25[Saint]does anyone remember the url of the chinese clone?
23:14:14 Quit bluebrother (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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23:20:30 Join einhirn [0] (
23:43:07 Join [Franklin] [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin)
23:45:43[Franklin]ZincAlloy: do you know of a good-looking 7x7 copyright symbol?
23:48:10[Franklin]I'm a terrible pixel artist, and the one in 10-Fixed is too small
23:48:27ZincAlloyI'd do it like this:
23:48:56[Franklin]that looks too square to me
23:50:08[Franklin]the circle looks better
23:50:33[Franklin]the 'c' looks a bit blockish still
23:50:37ZincAlloyreadability is better when the c looks like this
23:50:44ZincAlloyI tried it rounder first
23:51:23ZincAlloylike this:
23:51:45ZincAlloybut in actual size it doesn't look any good
23:52:59[Franklin]how about this:
23:53:02ZincAlloythe rounded one looks too far left in the circle as well.
23:53:40ZincAlloythat works well
23:54:11[Franklin]hmm really?
23:54:41 Quit einhirn (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
23:55:26ZincAlloyyes. what you need to choose depends on the overall design of your font
23:56:02 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:56:49[Franklin]hmm... I like mine a bit better
23:56:57ZincAlloythen use it :)
23:57:06[Franklin]ok, thanks anyway!
23:57:14ZincAlloyno problem :)
23:57:29[Franklin]I think that fixes the copyright issues
23:57:44[Franklin]I've got libre replacements for all the other characters :)
23:58:00ZincAlloynice :)
23:58:11[Franklin]not made by me, though
23:58:54[Franklin]just wrote a little script to extract them from the .bdf file :)

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