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#rockbox log for 2015-01-05

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00:21:10LD50thomasjfox: can I please see your cppcheck script again? your original paste seems to be gone
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00:23:26thomasjfoxI usually let them expire after a week
00:23:44[TheZero]ah, ok
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00:23:59[Franklin]I should really stop nick-hopping :)
00:24:53thomasjfox[Franklin]: you need this one, too:
00:25:44[Franklin]thanks :D
00:27:04thomasjfoxI'll probably make this a proper helper script in Rockbox one day
00:27:12thomasjfoxit's pretty handy (sometimes)...
00:27:59thomasjfoxanother thing would be proper unit tests. [Saint] is eager to write hundreds of tests for tagcache :P
00:28:38[Saint]I repeat;
00:28:51[Franklin]I'm tellin' ya! Automating programming is gonna be the 'next big thing'
00:30:38[Saint]Just do "cat /dev/random >"
00:30:59[Saint]Probability suggests you'd /eventually/ end up with a valid binary. :)
00:31:32thomasjfoxsee this experiment of the afl-fuzzing security tool:
00:31:56[Franklin][Saint]: /dev/urandom is best
00:32:07[Franklin]... and my fuzzing tool of choice :)
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02:18:29[Saint]heh, that was weird...the forums didn't even notify me that saratoga beat me to a post.
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10:09:01sobukusOk, I got another trick question: I have to add stuff to tne manual for the plugin I changed. How do I actually build the manual?
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10:12:19sobukusIt's not contained in the out-of-tree builds and the Makefile in manual/ complains that I should run make in the build dir ...
10:23:47gevaertsYou have to run "make manual" in your regular build directory
10:26:12sobukusAh, it's a target ... of course.
10:27:28sobukusI'm contemplating conversion to fixed point math now ... I wonder if a specific routine parsing float values to fixed makes sense or one should just convert the resulting float.
10:28:05sobukusAs the parsing only happens once at the beginning, it might be not worth it to bother makeing that stage efficient.
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10:54:59sobukusgevaerts: Can I test CONFIG_CODEC != SWCODEC with the simulator? Perhaps choosing a specific model ...
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11:11:26gevaertssobukus: as in, to hear sound? No, the mp3 decoder chip isn't simulated
11:13:17sobukuseinhirn: well, just checking if the code builds would be a start, I just noticed an #ifdef block that I overlooked.
11:13:56sobukusActually, running the thing in the simulator even without sound would be better than nothing.
11:14:12gevaertsWell yes, you can build those
11:14:26gevaertsIt's the Archoses, in case you're wondering :)
11:14:32sobukusOnly those?
11:14:38gevaertsPlayer is the charcell one, the others are bitmap
11:15:04sobukusHm, I tried some Archos and the metronome plugin is not built for those at all.
11:15:26gevaertsWhich one?
11:15:33sobukusrecorder v2
11:16:07sobukus#if CONFIG_CODEC == SWCODEC || !defined(SIMULATOR) /* Not for hwcodec sims */
11:16:17sobukusWell, that might exclude any sim of hwcodec;-)
11:16:24gevaertsIt might, yes :)
11:16:25sobukusin apps/plugins/SOURCES
11:16:38gevaertsProbably due to the lack of sound chip emulation
11:16:56sobukusSo, that applies to all plugins that do sound, I presume.
11:17:25sobukusSo, the least I can do is to check if a build for Archos hardware goes through, but I cannot test.
11:17:32*gevaerts nods
11:17:39pixelmasobukus: for building the manual you can find some information here: (unfortunately the wiki search function doesn't work so I got that one for you)
11:18:50sobukusgevaerts: eh, bummer ... I don't have the cross-compiler setup for Archos (sh-elf-gcc).
11:19:18gevaertssobukus: that's only a quick tools/ away :)
11:20:19sobukusAha. I wonder, what are the other targets actually using? Heck, I don't have a compiler for the SoC in the Sansas installed.
11:21:15gevaerts(most of them)
11:21:19gevaertssome m68k, some mips
11:21:42sobukusYes. No I repeat my question: What ARM compiler is Rockbox using? I didn't remember installing one, it just works.
11:22:09sobukusOr I forgot. Was a busy year.
11:22:18gevaertsI suspect you forgot :)
11:22:38sobukus/opt/rockbox-dev/bin/arm-elf-eabi-as <−−- appears so
11:22:58sobukusHeh. I need a brain check.
11:26:34sobukusI really must applaud the Rockbox team for making this so easy that I forgot how I setup the toolchain.
11:30:42sobukus/data/projekte/rockbox/src/apps/action.c:26:18: error: lang.h: No such file or directory
11:30:52sobukusI cannot build for Archos target.
11:31:51gevaertsFrom a clean build directory?
11:32:42sobukusI'm starting wholly fresh again (just-re-running configure is not enough?). Better now.
11:33:08gevaertsIf you've run make clean before, normally that's enough
11:33:20gevaertsBut there might be edge cases :)
11:33:50sobukusYeah, it went through now and I got the message that my plugin is too big for 2 MiB RAM.
11:34:29gevaertsIf all else fails, just rename things a bit and keep the old metronome plugin for the archoses
11:35:06gevaertsChecking if you can fix it first is still a good idea of course :)
11:35:10sobukusI can make it fit by reducing the number of track parts the metronome supports.
11:36:07sobukusHas 2 MiB Archos the smallest PLUGIN_RAM?
11:36:52gevaertsI think so
11:37:01sobukusI guess I need to compute the size of plugin data depending on the RAM size. Is the model that a plugin should use all memory that's available to it?
11:37:31sobukusBecause, I would like to impose the least strict limit on metronome track length.
11:39:38gevaertsThere's PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE
11:41:24gevaertsDefined in firmware/export/config/*
11:42:45sobukusAh, so it's 32K for archos, 512K for sansa
11:42:51gevaertsYou can grab the playback buffer too of course (if you stop playback), but then you have to manage that memory manually, no static compiler allocations then
11:43:18sobukusIn the plugin buffer, the plugin code itself plus all its data has to fit?
11:43:51gevaertsExcept if you grab the playback buffer
11:43:57gevaertsCode still has to fit though
11:43:59sobukusSo, I'd rather not do that.
11:44:28sobukusSo, I'll estimate code size and derive maximum length of track data structures from that.
11:44:39sobukusBut need to do that in the preprocessor.
11:45:02gevaertsDo some test builds with various settings/targets
11:45:15gevaertsobjdump can help
11:45:39sobukusIs there API for printing the current size of the plugin data? An end pointer?
11:46:20gevaertsThere is. One moment...
11:47:04gevaertsvoid* plugin_get_buffer(size_t *buffer_size)
11:47:33gevaertsThat returns a pointer to the start of free space, and puts the size of that free space in buffer_size
11:47:58sobukusAh, with that I could do manual memory management ...
11:48:44gevaertsOr you can run "sh-elf-size apps/plugins/metronome.elf" (or arm-eabi-*, ...) and use those numbers :)
11:49:19sobukusActually, I like the dynamic approach. If I do this for one datastructure only, it's rather trivial to always use what's needed/there at runtime.
11:49:57gevaertsYes, if you can easily do it, it's better
11:54:17sobukusDamn ... no I think if I can implement a rather crazy feature in the metronome that klick has: specify a tempo for _each_ _beat_
11:54:50sobukusThat wouldn't be practicable without dynamic memory.
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12:01:35sobukusAnyhow, this memory management is not too bad when I don't consider deallocating anything.
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12:16:43sobukusgevaerts: OK, now only one question remains: Is 4-byte alignment of memory blocks fine for all architectures or do we consider arm64 where 8 bytes might be of value (not sure of that)?
12:17:40gevaertsWe'll start considering arm64 if we ever have such a target
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12:18:21sobukusOk, so I'll make sure I only use 32 bit types max and align to 4 byte.
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15:14:34sobukusWhile finishing the metronome plugin, I noticed that it has a timer running also when paused. Does a 1-ms-timer triggering a small callback hinder the hardware from conserving power?
15:16:02sobukusI guess it would be beneficial to only start the timer when actually playing, right?
15:18:14gevaertsI'd say that would be better, yes
15:18:43gevaertsI have no idea how much power you'll save, but it certainly won't be worse
15:18:47sobukusFine. Now my question is if a timer every 1 ms is actually excessive in itself.
15:19:03sobukusHow realtime is Rockbox?
15:20:11sobukusI might optimize this by computing the minimal period needed between two beats in a track.
15:21:45gevaertsThose timers are hardware timers, and I think the callback runs from the interrupt
15:21:57gevaertsIf so, that would make that callback fairly realtime :)
15:25:41sobukusYeah. I need to wonder a bit about TIMER_FREQ/timerfreq_div and its implications.
15:26:46gevaertsThe thing is of course that on SWCODEC you don't actually play sounds from that interrupt handler, so it's not entirely clear how accurate the end result is
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15:29:09sobukusgevaerts: Yeah. About that ... is there a standard way to get Rockbox' audio output ... eh, never mind. I can just record headphone output from the real device;-)
15:31:24sobukusI'll experiment with the timer stuff, also trying to monitor battery drain, after the first version of the new metronome is merged.
15:31:48sobukusSince I did not change that aspect from the old one.
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16:58:35sobukusOK, I'm in a really weird place now. I added dynamic memory use to the plugin and now a printf for debugging changes values being debugged.
16:58:45sobukusI must assume I messed up memory.
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18:50:46*thomasjfox crosses fingers not to break the build
18:50:57fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision fdd4aef, 255 builds, 29 clients.
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19:00:49thomasjfoxok, that didn't quite work out on the first shot:D
19:01:34QazerowlHello. I recently installed rockbox onto a Sansa Clip+, and was wondering if it is possible to use the volume controller on my earbuds.
19:02:48QazerowlIt doesn't seem to work by default, I was wondering if I need to change some setting or if the clip+ just isn't capable of detecting the controller.
19:04:10[Franklin]Qazerowl: is it a 4-pin inline remote?
19:04:18[Franklin]if so, rockbox doesn't support it... yet
19:04:42pamauryQazerowl: probably not, it needs special hardware to be detected (also it depends on the kind of headphones (although it pretty standard for android-ish targeted headphones / manufacturers)) which I doubt the device has, but I'm not a specialist of the Clip+
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19:07:37QazerowlWould a four pin inline remote have a 3.5mm with four metal "stripes"?
19:07:52[Franklin]yes, that's it
19:08:21[Franklin]I don't think that's what it's really called, though
19:08:49QazerowlOk, so the hardware is there, it's just not in the code yet, correct?
19:09:48[Franklin]I'm not sure about the Clip+
19:09:52[Franklin]did it work in OF?
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19:14:48QazerowlI didn't have headphones with a remote until after I put rockbox on it, but google says some headphone controllers work with it.
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19:15:48Qazerowlis there a hardware difference between headphones that only work with iPods and those than only work with other devices, or is it that they just send different signals?
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19:27:39sobukusQazerowl: I'm really not sure that the Clip+ hardware supports such headphone controls. I actually doubt it.
19:28:14sobukusQazerowl: The clip is designed to be clipped on your clothes at about the same distance from your head as the headphone remote would dangle around.
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19:29:04sobukusIt's about as large as a cable remote for an old walkman (only slightly exaggerating)
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19:32:34sobukusBtw. In case someone wondered: I didn't mess up memory. I messed up the types, halfway converting from float to fixed.
19:32:47sobukusMy memory handling is Rockbox-solid!
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19:36:53[Franklin]sobukus: regarding floats/fixed, I'd say floats are best if you need a wide range of precision
19:37:43sobukus[Franklin]: well, I don't really need a wide range, I think fixed should be fine.
19:38:21sobukusAlso, I don't see an obvious performance problem with what I have (float calculations).
19:38:38[Franklin]all the floating-point operations are emulated in software
19:38:45[Franklin]there's no FPU
19:38:50[Franklin]so... it's slow
19:39:04sobukusDon't modern devices have FPUs?
19:39:39sobukusBut anyhow, I'll convert to fixed just for the heck of it, but the Sansa clip+ seems to be fine with one slightly complex float computation per metronome beat.
19:39:46[Franklin]not MP3 players :P
19:40:11[Franklin]is it the same computation every beat?
19:43:10sobukusThe worst case is a tempo changing ramp (some bpm every beat).
19:43:38sobukusThen, it's the same computation, but differing values, of course. And the point is to have the changes between beats subtle.
19:44:07[Franklin]can you precalculate all the logs when the file is loaded?
19:44:10sobukusSo a coars loopup table won't do ... and it would be 2D, anyway (time difference between two beats of tempo a and b)
19:45:05sobukus[Franklin]: theoretically, yes ... but I'd need to store the stuff someplace ... you could program an awfully long track with very slow tempo change
19:45:33sobukusSince even the float computation is apparently no problem, a fixed-point one really should be fine.
19:45:55*sobukus needs to verify the accurateness of the metronome by recording the output from the device
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20:22:42sobukusYep, around 0.1-0.2 s offset afer 120 seconds playback due to the quantization of the time with the timer mechanism.
20:24:42sobukusWeren't it for the archos devices, I could just create a pcm stream with long-time accurate timing, depending on the actual clock.
20:28:08[Franklin]you don't /have/ to support the archoses ;)
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20:29:13sobukusWell, it would be a regression from the old metronome, so some criticism would be warranted.
20:29:40sobukusAnd anyhow, I would need to figure out how to produce a continuous stream and still have the interactive work right.
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20:30:30[Franklin]sobukus: yes, but you could #ifdef out the new code
20:30:38gevaertsIt would only be a regression if you didn't keep the old one around
20:31:39foolshotherwise you can call it "legacy support" :)
20:31:56[Franklin]if you can't figure it out, that is
20:32:08sobukusNah, now I merged the stuff into the normal metronome. Changing the basic timing and playback method and keeping also the old one around in the same file doesn't sound sane to me.
20:32:54sobukusThe accuracy is fine enough, actually. I could make the timer interval even smaller (what's a limit the hardware can take?).
20:33:45gevaertsDepends on the target. IIRC it goes from 10kHz to 10MHz
20:33:50gevaertsMore or less
20:34:10sobukusAnd firing a callback each 0.1 ms is fine with the system?
20:34:24gevaertsTry it :)
20:34:51sobukusI'd need to record the power consumption, too. I'd trade some accuracy for some hours more of battery life.
20:35:06sobukusIf it doesn't matter there, of course, it should have best accuract.
20:36:04sobukusBut let's finish one version already.
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21:31:20[Franklin]does anyone feel that it's time for a release?
21:32:26the-kyleIt's time for another dev build I think. heheh
21:34:37sobukusSomeone familiar with the fixedpoint stuff>
21:34:40lorenzo92can someone quickly confirm me that this license here is compatible with our GPL one?
21:35:28lorenzo92it seems a BSD - 3 to me, which is compatible...correct?
21:36:00sobukusAh, never mind.
21:36:08*sobukus got the error in his rounding
21:36:17gevaertslorenzo92: looks OK to me
21:36:33lorenzo92gevaerts: thanks ;)
21:36:51lorenzo92indeed, but in case I'm documenting more also for personal information hehe
21:39:10[Franklin]lorenzo92: looks like 3-clause BSD
21:42:52lorenzo92[Franklin]: thanks you too ;)
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