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#rockbox log for 2015-06-14

00:20:59 Nick Electricguy_ is now known as Electricguy (
00:38:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:42:48 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
00:45:03 Join [Franklin] [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin)
00:52:34[Saint]jtdesigns01: I'm not sure how you think the DooM plugin works, on any device, but we don't have a
00:52:50[Saint](think about it)
00:53:30[Saint]If we displayed a keyboard, you'd still need to use physical keys to navigate it, and it would block the entire screen on most devices.
00:53:57jtdesigns01HAHA, ok fine... keypad. there, are you satisfied?
00:54:30[Saint]So you're asking "does the DooM plugin allow user input"?
00:55:09jtdesigns01no, does the sansa fuze+ have a good keypad for *playing* doom
00:56:16[Saint]Depends on your definition of "good". I guess. Consensus says no.
00:56:44[Saint]That's true of any target.
00:57:25jtdesigns01you mean keypads are not good for doom on any target?
00:58:16[Saint]I do. I'm guessing you've not tried it on device?
00:58:34[Saint]The lowmem targets won't even make it past the first few levels, so, there's that, too.
00:58:51[Saint]Its more of a novelty.
00:59:00jtdesigns01no, i am getting my fuze+ tommorow.
00:59:31jtdesigns01well, the fuze+ does have 64MB of ram, which should be enough
01:00:02[Franklin]for what?
01:00:10[Franklin]dark forces?
01:00:25 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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01:01:55jtdesigns01and dark forces too..... hopefully......... someday...........
01:02:10[Franklin]well, if you want some inspiration, check out the xworld plugin
01:02:32jtdesigns01xworld? hm, i will check it out in the sim. just a sec
01:02:44[Franklin]you need the data files...
01:02:55[Saint]The main issue, as you'll find out, is controls.
01:02:59[Saint]Or lack of them.
01:03:04[Franklin]from an original DOS installation, of course ;P
01:03:16[Franklin]which is definitely where I got my copy from
01:03:26[Saint]So you'll be getting your ass kicked, trying to get away to a safe place so you can stand in a corner and change weapons safely.
01:03:30[Saint]so on.
01:03:47[Saint]DAP kays do not lend themselves well to playing DooM.
01:04:05[Franklin]or any game requiring 6+ buttons
01:04:50jtdesigns01well, at least it will be a little fun on long boring car rides.
01:05:00[Franklin]essentially the largest number of buttons before entering a UX nightmare is 5
01:05:16[Saint]Smartphones _destroyed_ the DAP market.
01:06:09jtdesigns01i am a old hardware geek, you might say
01:07:04jtdesigns01i have a PowerMac G3 beige (oldworld) running Ubuntu 15.04 as a server in my basement
01:08:11foolshfuze+ and Doom, hmm if the player was tilted sideways so fire and a strafe were vol- and vol+, and power was used for menu, this would allow sufficient inputs to over come the touch pad's absence of multi touch support. aka only one button on the fuze+'s touch pad may be activated at any time
01:09:30[Saint]How big could we make the window if we rotated it 45 degrees, lol?
01:09:53jtdesigns01it shouldnt be too hard to reprogram the keybindings at least. tilting the display, IDK. probably hard.
01:10:05foolshokay start ass "rotated"
01:10:10[Saint]keybindings is harder than you'd think.
01:11:23jtdesigns01sorry, i didnt mean that to be a joke. i seriously meant rotating. not actually tilting the device.
01:11:29[Saint]But, yeah, foolsh just touched on something I forgot about.
01:11:51[Saint]On the _other_ targets where this is a bloody nightmare, we can get multiple keypresses.
01:11:57[Saint]On this thing, though, ...well.
01:12:12[Saint]That, and the touchpad is quite literally a massive pile of shit.
01:12:15jtdesigns01why would keybindings be so hard?
01:12:15[Saint]Its terrible.
01:12:48[Saint]jtdesigns01: because all the key slots are full and if you move one you've got to juggle all the others around it.
01:13:16jtdesigns01dont make me regret my purchase yet.
01:13:23jtdesigns01LOL, Just kidding.
01:13:37[Saint]You won't. Unless for some ungodly reason you purchased it for DooM alone.
01:13:49[Saint]Not knowing about the FUCKING TERRIBLE controls wasn't your fault.
01:14:11jtdesigns01why are they hard to use?
01:14:12[Saint]Its not something they seem to like to make public.
01:15:21jtdesigns01and actually, doom (and the other plugins) _was_ a big reason why i did get it
01:15:39*foolsh would rather have the old plain fuze with physical buttons over the fuze+
01:15:39[Saint]To suit out needs a bit better we took a really bad touchpad, and carved it up into a 3x3 grid, so on top of it already being terrible, you have to remember that the original key markings are now meaningless and don't actually show the right division between touch areas.
01:15:48[Saint]ANd the sensitivity is just plain awful.
01:16:22[Saint]though that can be adjusted to suit the user, somewhat.
01:16:39foolshthere are settings for adjustable sensitivity now though, so it's a bit better than terrible
01:16:52jtdesigns01hmmm. where are they?
01:17:06[Saint]probably not active in the SIM.
01:17:32foolshyeah, its in the system options menu on the actual target
01:18:20[Saint]The Fuze+ is a great little target, hampered by a really terrible (like, ...why?) screen, and even more terrible controls.
01:18:55jtdesigns01the screen is bad too?
01:19:22[Saint]Its just at "why did they bother" type level of insanity.
01:19:39jtdesigns01what do you mean?
01:19:39*foolsh has fancied the thought of hacking a physical game pad to the gpio-s or i2c bus some how
01:21:02[Saint]jtdesigns01: in my world it would be much better suited to have monochromatic display, rather than the minuscule full colour display.
01:21:16[Saint]I mean, yay, 96x96px album art!
01:21:22 Quit CustosLimen (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:22:00[Saint]"lets see what song is up next ...
01:22:10[Saint]"Ohhhh, squiggly blod! I LOVE those guys!"
01:22:57foolshcreative zen's screen would be more spacious and the keypad more inclined to "gameplay"
01:23:15foolshthan a fuze+'s
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01:23:33[Saint]Creative make some really nice players.
01:23:50[Saint]Slightly obscure for my neck of the woods though, we never see them here.
01:24:43jtdesigns01well, too late now. anyway, i got a good bargain on it ($20 USD for an 8GB plus a 4GB MicroSD) (from a friend:D)
01:24:58[Saint]that is a decent price, indeed.
01:25:22jtdesigns01anyway. i gotta go now. see ya guys.
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01:31:58foolshyeah you'll never find a zen at that price
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01:43:49*[Franklin] should try getting xworld to work on monochrome targets
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16:25:22jtdesigns01does rockbox support earbuds with remotes and microphones?
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16:57:30azakii think that would depend partially on the hardware; if the device never supported it, then i wouldn't think it possible to just add that through software. i'm not sure how they work though, maybe all it requires is a microphone and the rest is software? (analyzing specially-crafted audio from the mic, generated by the remote?)
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16:59:02jtdesigns01I think it would only work on devices with a microphone compatible jack.
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17:21:47[Saint]jtdesigns01: yes, and no, mostly no.
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18:15:59[Franklin]where is LCD_PIXELFORMAT defined?
18:16:28[Franklin]the stride format, rather
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18:34:30[Franklin]ok, just got pacbox up and running on clip+
18:34:40[Franklin]scaling needs some work, but it largely works
18:38:21[Saint]I imagine telling a ghost from a pac pellet is nigh impossible at that resolution.
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18:39:36[Franklin]not totally
18:39:53[Franklin]the screen isn't /that/ bad
18:40:17[Franklin]only 128x64
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18:59:35ReiharYou could get a minimal roguelike to work at that resolution.
19:01:31[Saint]That's one game I'm truly surprised hasn't been *.rock'ed
19:02:11[Saint]We have something far far more complex that I'm willing to bet most people don't even know about...bu tno rogue*but no
19:02:22[Saint](frotz, FWIW)
19:02:45ReiharI'm getting a device for the specific purpuose of running rockbox on it.
19:02:58Reihar(Listening to music too but heh, that's secondary)
19:04:01[Saint]iPod Classic.
19:04:05[Saint](...that is all)
19:04:20[Saint]Or a Video, if you can find one.
19:08:56ReiharThe iPod was really one pertinent and positive to humanity product
19:09:11ReiharI don't really like apple but I have to give them credit for that
19:09:14Reiharand the apple II
19:09:24[Saint]Its virtually impossible to find a better built player.
19:09:30[Saint](which is also supported)
19:09:56[Saint]The various Sansas are essentially disposable plastic garbage.
19:10:04[Saint](this author's opinion)
19:10:15ReiharDid they totally kill off their ipod produciton?
19:10:23[Saint]They did, yes. Ages ago.
19:10:32ReiharI vaguely remember an iphone without phone when they launched the iphone
19:10:40[Saint]the iPod Classic was a pleasant surprise actually.
19:10:48[Franklin]great for games, actually
19:10:52ReiharSince I wasn't really caring I had thought they kept doing that.
19:10:55[Franklin]until the buttons break :P
19:11:42[Saint]Not if you're proficient with surface mount soldering. :))
19:11:51[Saint]and/or have a reflow station.
19:12:16[Franklin]just don't get too into the game, and you're fine
19:12:41[Saint]FWIW, its not like the sansas are any better in this regard.
19:12:50[Saint]if hold or volume breaks there, you're just as fucked.
19:12:57[Saint]For WHat Its Worth.
19:13:06[Franklin]at least ipods don't crack on the front
19:13:21[Saint]2/3/4G do.
19:13:25[Franklin]that's happened to me on multiple sansas
19:13:41[Franklin]5G and later were great
19:13:55ReiharSo, here is what's left of Apple's great music empire:
19:14:00[Saint]the clear plastic scratch protector that isn't a scratch protector gets hairline cracks and looks weird.
19:14:08[Saint]5G+ is the same, but, a lot better.
19:14:35[Saint]AFAIK they still sell the Nano line.
19:14:46ReiharI had a nano, a long time ago.
19:14:54[Saint]Last to die off, and /maybe/ the shuffle(s).
19:15:07ReiharA 2G, a long time ago.
19:15:08[Saint]The Nano 1G is fricken' GREAT.
19:15:19[Saint]Its just hampered by its virtually unusable storage.
19:15:26ReiharOh, the iPod touch is still alive.
19:15:39[Saint](the nano 1G is basically a NAND flash iPod Video)
19:16:10ReiharHum, there's still a nano and a shuffle.
19:16:27[Saint]Rather hilariously, iOS9 gave us a way in for Rockbox on non-jailbroken devices.
19:16:41Reihar2GB Ah ah ah ah ah
19:16:43[Saint]I sincerely doubt it'll happen, but, it /could/.
19:16:58[Franklin][Saint]: how?
19:17:19[Saint][Franklin]: xcode no longer requires paying a developers license fee and can sideload
19:17:31ReiharOh, that's nice.
19:17:41[Saint]Long time coming, but, yeah.
19:18:36[Franklin]about time
19:26:54ReiharI'm having a look at the dev doc, making plugins seems pretty accessible, that's cool.
19:34:23foolsh[Franklin]: Did you see the 1-pixel pacman on hackaday blog? It's good for some inspiration
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22:11:57*foolsh waits patiently for gerrit to get updated (twiddles thumbs, watches grass grow, learns a second language)
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22:14:51[Saint]The problem of needing a zagor is one that is difficult to overcome.
22:15:04[Saint]Though I suspect any Stenberg may do.
22:15:48[Saint]Though no blame can lie there. We all knew this was coming, and all of us gleefully ignored it.
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22:30:20*foolsh wonders if github was good enough for curl, then why not entertain the idea of putting rockbox over there as well
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22:32:20ReiharRemember Sourceforge. (not a dev)
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22:48:58[Saint]foolsh: we do have an active mirror.
22:49:28[Saint]the main "problem" is github's fucking asinine pull/merge request system.
22:50:00[Saint]gerrit works a lot better in this regard, but then we face the problem we're facing now.
22:59:56bluebrotherRockbox development isn't too active anymore these days anyway.
23:00:16*bluebrother wonders if anybody thought of another attempt of a devcon again
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23:01:32[Saint]I'm not sure what the basis behind that statement is
23:02:13[Saint]development is waning, sure. But we're essentially cutting any interested parties off at the pass right now, as it were.
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23:44:44jtdesigns01well, i`m here; and, though i might have no experience with embedded devices up till now, i love getting modern, usable code to run on things that have no business running it (like mp3 players) (or a super old PowerMac G3 beige :P)
23:45:50 Join shamus [0] (
23:47:04[Saint]We bought one of those new. >.>
23:47:18[Saint]It was about $2800, shipped, IIRC.
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23:47:49[Saint]Got tossed unceremoniously in a dumpster ages ago.
23:48:08[Saint](yeah - I do regret that, if anyone's wondering)
23:48:27jtdesigns01i got mine free as junk and now its running Ubuntu 15.04 as a server in my basement
23:48:44 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 39.0/20150611135623])
23:49:03jtdesigns01(and its speed actually is pretty good)
23:49:26gevaertsNot really interesting for #rockbox though
23:50:54jtdesigns01oh woops, moving to #rockbox-community. sorry
23:53:37 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
23:54:41JanCPowerMac G3 is plenty fast for a home server, but also needs a factor more energy than what you actually need for that on modern hardware :P
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23:58:37[Saint]jtdesigns01: one thing you'll probably despise us for immediately is how we carved up the touchpad
23:58:53 Join shamus [0] (
23:58:55[Saint]Even when you know better its really hard to ignore the divisional markings on it that we render meaningless.

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