| 00:00:30 | [Saint] | There's a link to a font pack I made _yeeeeeeeeeeeeears_ ago on the site. |
| 00:00:48 | [Saint] | (under Extras) |
| 00:00:56 | adnap | [Saint]: Is it the main one? |
| 00:01:03 | [Saint] | It is not. |
| 00:01:27 | adnap | [Saint]: Does it have a bigger Unicode font that 18-Fixed? |
| 00:01:34 | [Saint] | It does. |
| 00:02:36 | [Saint] | adnap: you can pull them straight from my github |
| 00:02:37 | [Saint] | https://github.com/saint-lascivious/rockbox-cabbie_v2/tree/master/fonts/font-pack |
| 00:08:46 | | Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:13:25 | adnap | [Saint]: I don't know why, but all the fonts seem to show up even smaller than 18-Fixed on Android! |
| 00:14:23 | adnap | [Saint]: For example, 36 GNU Unifont is much smaller |
| 00:14:30 | [Saint] | Offhand I have no idea what you're doing wrong. |
| 00:14:57 | [Saint] | Or what's going on. |
| 00:15:14 | | Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 00:15:34 | [Saint] | What I can say is that in the brief period where peole actually cared about Rockbox on Android a great many people used these fonts successfully. |
| 00:16:16 | [Saint] | perhaps keep in mind that the font height is measured from the top of the ascent to the bottom of the descent and not the glyph itself. |
| 00:16:57 | adnap | [Saint]: I tried the biggest fonts. There is no difference in size among several sizes of the same fonts. |
| 00:17:20 | ZincAlloy | There is. I'm using them in a theme.. |
| 00:17:27 | [Saint] | ^ that |
| 00:17:37 | adnap | Could it be my theme? |
| 00:17:44 | adnap | I use the default. |
| 00:17:44 | [Saint] | I don't see how. |
| 00:18:12 | ZincAlloy | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48524.0.html |
| 00:18:18 | [Saint] | Even if you were using larger fonts in a smaller viewport, it would just cut the font off prematurely. |
| 00:18:21 | [Saint] | Not make it smaller. |
| 00:18:31 | | Quit Markmaster (Quit: Markmaster) |
| 00:19:37 | adnap | There is a rockbox/fonts folder in the root of my internal storage. I put the fonts from [Saint]'s pack in there and selected them via Settings > Theme Settings > Font |
| 00:19:50 | ZincAlloy | yeah, that should do the trick |
| 00:19:57 | [Saint] | Your theme is probably hardcoding fonts. |
| 00:20:05 | | Quit ender` (Quit: If you eat a live toad first thing in the morning, nothing worse will happen all day long. -- California saying; To you or the toad. -- Niven's restatement; —well, most of the time anyway ... -- programmer's caveat) |
| 00:20:06 | [Saint] | in which case none of that will matter. |
| 00:20:13 | ZincAlloy | he's using the default |
| 00:20:22 | [Saint] | he said he wasn't? |
| 00:20:36 | [Saint] | Oh, no, I misread. |
| 00:20:39 | [Saint] | Hmmm. |
| 00:20:40 | adnap | Some of the fonts look different. They just don't always change in size or appear as large as they should. |
| 00:20:42 | [Saint] | SHit knows. |
| 00:21:04 | adnap | I'm using cabbiev2 |
| 00:21:27 | [Saint] | Ubuntu and GNU Unifont have _very_ different ascent and descent ratios. |
| 00:21:30 | adnap | That's the default, right? |
| 00:21:39 | [Saint] | But they should be largely similar in their own kind. |
| 00:22:40 | ZincAlloy | for many resolutions there is no proper cabbie port. that's why the font is so small.. |
| 00:22:58 | adnap | 36 Ubuntu [Regular] and 36 GNU Unifont both appear smaller than 18-Fixed, appear at about the same size, and look about the same to me. |
| 00:23:17 | [Saint] | see above. |
| 00:23:26 | [Saint] | the font is measured fron ascent to descent. |
| 00:23:29 | [Saint] | not glyph height. |
| 00:23:35 | adnap | Sounds like I need a different theme then. |
| 00:23:41 | [Saint] | That will not help. |
| 00:23:43 | ZincAlloy | those are rather small. they will look tiny on a big cellphone screen |
| 00:23:56 | ZincAlloy | what are your screen dimensions? |
| 00:24:04 | [Saint] | I think you're confusing what the numerical values mean. |
| 00:24:11 | [Saint] | it is NOT the glyph height. |
| 00:24:26 | [Saint] | its the entire height of the fontline, ascent to descent. |
| 00:24:40 | adnap | 480x800 |
| 00:25:51 | [Saint] | gimme a sec to shit some more fonts out onto the infowebz. |
| 00:25:58 | [Saint] | I made a lot more I never published. |
| 00:26:21 | ZincAlloy | try this: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=29103.0 |
| 00:27:32 | ZincAlloy | [Saint], have you ever made larger versions of Ubuntu bold? they will come in handy for larger screens for sure |
| 00:27:51 | [Saint] | I have up to 50pt |
| 00:27:55 | [Saint] | that's it. |
| 00:28:20 | [Saint] | uploading. |
| 00:28:35 | | Quit [Franklin] (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 00:28:35 | [Saint] | if these go well I might kill the version on the site. |
| 00:28:40 | adnap | I wish rockbox could just draw scaleable fonts for any resolution. |
| 00:28:40 | ZincAlloy | I tried to make a 1080x1920 version of my theme, but I didn't have any anti aliased fonts that were big enough :D |
| 00:28:57 | [Saint] | adnap: patches welcome |
| 00:28:59 | [Saint] | http://www.datafilehost.com/d/89b5a7f4 |
| 00:29:04 | [Saint] | there we go, play with those. |
| 00:39:20 | adnap | [Saint]: Thank you! These are a good size! Ubuntu Regular doesn't seem to support Unicode and GNU Unifont looks blocky though. |
| 00:39:38 | [Saint] | Welcome to the world of free unicode fonts. |
| 00:39:45 | [Saint] | Sadly, I'm limited by licensing. |
| 00:40:04 | [Saint] | Paying several hundred dollars out of my own pocket for a gift to the community wasn't something I was down for. |
| 00:40:24 | [Saint] | If you find some pretty free fonts, I might have a play. |
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| 00:41:17 | [Saint] | There pretty much aren't any fonts I know of that are both pretty, *and* have full unicode coverage. |
| 00:41:18 | | Quit petur (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:41:41 | [Saint] | The Ubuntu font set is for the pretty, the GNU Unofont set if you extensive locale support. |
| 00:41:50 | [Saint] | It seems largely impossible to have both. |
| 00:41:57 | [Saint] | *Unifont |
| 00:42:10 | adnap | Huh |
| 00:42:36 | adnap | [Saint]: Well, thanks anyway! This is still a big improvement over 18-Fixed! |
| 00:42:51 | [Saint] | If anyone ever finds a very beautiful font that has full unicode support, I'm open to suggestions. |
| 00:43:01 | [Saint] | Its something we should have and I'm willing to do the conversion. |
| 00:43:03 | adnap | (Which also looked tiny and blocky) |
| 00:43:05 | [Saint] | I just never found one. |
| 00:43:28 | adnap | I thought I read about something with libre in the name. |
| 00:44:48 | [Saint] | I have found quite a few fonts that have been split up into specific locales, but I don't recall any with the same coverage as gnu unifont, which covers almost the entire spectrum of glyphs. |
| 00:45:05 | [Saint] | they usually seem to split the fonts up into different locale sets, and its annoying. |
| 00:45:07 | adnap | This sounds like a good Kickstarter idea. :P |
| 00:45:13 | ZincAlloy | for small sizes it sure is impossible. unifont characters need to be really tall.. |
| 00:48:09 | [Saint] | kanji et al. |
| 00:48:10 | [Saint] | yeah. |
| 00:48:29 | adnap | [Saint]: You implied that there is less interest in Rockbox for Android now. Why? What is better? |
| 00:48:42 | [Saint] | lots of asian glyphs look identical to each other down past a ~18-20px ascent drop. |
| 00:49:00 | [Saint] | adnap: nothing, but, it was always a terrible solution. |
| 00:49:11 | [Saint] | In a word, we pretty much did everything wrong that we could. |
| 00:49:33 | ZincAlloy | it's pretty cool, though. |
| 00:49:40 | adnap | [Saint]: You mean it was hacked together quickly to get something working? |
| 00:49:43 | [Saint] | Bringing in our own UI and not doing a central library based approach basically killed us. |
| 00:49:50 | ZincAlloy | it does have issues, but it's useable for the most part. |
| 00:50:05 | [Saint] | Only if you're on a forgotten old Android version. |
| 00:50:13 | ZincAlloy | oh, right. |
| 00:50:17 | ZincAlloy | I'm outdated :D |
| 00:50:21 | [Saint] | I literally have no devices that'll run it anymore. |
| 00:50:29 | [Saint] | I'd need to specifically revert. |
| 00:50:40 | adnap | My only issue is it sometimes crashes, but it always remembers my place in a file and my playlist. |
| 00:51:10 | ZincAlloy | I also get audible glitches every now and then. |
| 00:51:19 | [Saint] | And, no, it wasn't hacked together - no, that wasn't it - it was created with love. It just had the wrong direction right from the beginning, and now we all see that. |
| 00:51:24 | [Saint] | At the time, it wasn't easy to see. |
| 00:51:38 | ZincAlloy | and album art usually gets lost between tracks |
| 00:51:50 | [Saint] | We need a library based approach with a native UI to have any sucess in this market. |
| 00:52:06 | [Saint] | ANd Mr. SOmeone has no time to do this. |
| 00:52:38 | ZincAlloy | we should fire mr. someone. He just doesn't get things done :D |
| 00:52:46 | [Saint] | <shakes fist> |
| 00:52:55 | adnap | It's not as polished as the iOS player I guess, but it has more options and I can work with my own files on a filesystem. |
| 00:53:26 | [Saint] | the massive issue is having to target a specific resolution. |
| 00:53:43 | adnap | Need everything scaleable |
| 00:53:44 | ZincAlloy | yeah. that's trouble. |
| 00:53:48 | [Saint] | the binary _must_ be built for the framebuffer. No exceptions. |
| 00:53:59 | [Saint] | That basically stops us dead in the water for distribution. |
| 00:54:01 | adnap | Why? |
| 00:54:06 | adnap | Roxbox history? |
| 00:54:13 | adnap | *Rockbox |
| 00:54:18 | [Saint] | Historic reasons, basically, yeah. |
| 00:54:33 | [Saint] | Its how its done on our other targets. (where it makes sense) |
| 00:55:05 | [Saint] | automagically scaling to a given framebuffer is non-trivial. |
| 00:55:15 | adnap | I bet the build process is super annoying. |
| 00:55:15 | [Saint] | especially if we want to keep the theme engine. |
| 00:55:27 | ZincAlloy | I couldn't find any acceptable alternative for rockbox. I'd like to browse the actual file system, I need gapless mp3 and replay gain. |
| 00:55:34 | [Saint] | Nah. Its no more annoying than any of the other devices really. |
| 00:55:35 | adnap | I don't care about themes. |
| 00:55:45 | [Saint] | I suspect you do. |
| 00:55:47 | adnap | I think one perfect theme is simpler. |
| 00:55:53 | [Saint] | Try using the fallback theme for a minute. |
| 00:55:56 | [Saint] | We'll wait. |
| 00:56:21 | adnap | Well, I mean philosophically. Not that I don't want to rely on what Rockbox has |
| 00:56:50 | ZincAlloy | historically, themeability was a big thing. |
| 00:57:05 | adnap | Well, I have to go |
| 00:57:22 | adnap | I really enjoyed this discusion, and thanks for the fonts [Saint]! |
| 00:57:26 | [Saint] | o/ |
| 00:57:41 | [Saint] | without thems, you lose touch control, I suspect you'd miss that. |
| 00:57:51 | [Saint] | otherwise you'd have to deal with a terrible 3x3 touch grid. |
| 00:58:17 | [Saint] | revert to the fallback theme and you'll see why you currently care about thems. |
| 00:58:19 | [Saint] | *themes |
| 00:58:25 | [Saint] | anyway - good day. o/ |
| 01:00 |
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| 02:17:42 | ploco | [Saint]: cut that resolusion dependen talk, g838 has been sitting there for 1 whole year |
| 02:18:32 | [Saint] | that's putting a bainaid on a broken leg and you and I both know that. |
| 02:18:39 | [Saint] | *bandaid |
| 02:19:02 | ploco | no, i disagree |
| 02:19:25 | [Saint] | Sure, it'll "fix" the framebuffer issue, but it leaves the underlying issue of it still being _completely the wrong direction_ to travel in. |
| 02:20:12 | | Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 02:20:15 | [Saint] | I honestly don't think there's even an argument there. Us bringing our theme engine and UI to the party on ANdroid is The Wrong Thing To Do (TM). |
| 02:20:23 | ploco | it's not that big a issue just disable the framebuffer thread. hook the api to jni. the problem is no one know what cause the 5.0 crash |
| 02:21:06 | [Saint] | I honestly don't think there is any point in persuing anything short of a full playback library approach with a native UI. |
| 02:21:24 | [Saint] | That opens up a host of possibilities and makes us attractive and relevant. |
| 02:22:04 | ploco | not until we can find the root cause of the 5.0 crash |
| 02:22:23 | [Saint] | that wouldn't be relevant here. |
| 02:23:12 | ploco | sure it is, the crash point is the playback thread |
| 02:25:04 | [Saint] | but Mr. Someone gets the opportunity to strip this back to the very basics and build from the ground up here, so any problems that may or may exist with rockbox in its current state are moot. |
| 02:25:38 | [Saint] | in my opinion for this use case the only interest things are the heavy codec optimizations. |
| 02:27:11 | ploco | who ever interest in that kind of work most likelly has jump ship to ffmpeg already. |
| 02:27:56 | [Saint] | and here we are. |
| 02:29:23 | ploco | no, we, you and me, are stand on very different point in every aspect. you only want the thing done in easy way. I'm hacking try to make the impossible possible. |
| 02:29:55 | ploco | and till now, users are still suffer in that tiny 8mb memory in Android build. |
| 02:30:01 | [Saint] | I'm sorry? What part of the direction I outlined is _easy_? |
| 02:30:36 | [Saint] | It is the exact opposite of easy. |
| 02:30:55 | [Saint] | Recognizing that the current route is not the way to go and discarding it is _hard_. :) |
| 02:31:18 | ploco | man, so do something? :) |
| 02:38:31 | ploco | anyway, if is not the stupid 5.0 crash sidetrack me from complete the jni hook up, would have finsh most of the RBlib hacking.(it's been more than hald a year since start) |
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| 03:43:22 | jtdesigns01 | so, i just tried emacs..... i.... am not.... *ever*.... going..... to try that..... again. |
| 03:44:24 | jtdesigns01 | so now i am using zed http://zedapp.org/ and i am mostly liking it. |
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| 05:06:27 | peterburk | Can someone advise on configure scripts? I want to build a plugin without recompiling the entire firmware every time. |
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| 05:49:02 | HazWard | Are any new devices getting Rockbox? |
| 05:54:12 | [Saint] | If someone wants it bad enough to make it happen, sure. |
| 06:00 |
| 06:10:58 | HazWard | Oh ok |
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| 20:23:58 | ChristW | My wife's iPod touch is dying, so I am looking for a replacement audio player. Any advice? She has bad eye sight, so having to use a small screen is a problem. And, since I'm asking here, I'd like to use Rockbox on it, as well... |
| 20:27:26 | [Saint] | If an iPod Touch was the prior metric of "a thing that was usable", there's very little options I can think of. |
| 20:27:35 | [Saint] | Actually, none, offhand. |
| 20:27:46 | ChristW | Buttons would do. |
| 20:27:58 | ChristW | iPod classic (alike) |
| 20:28:11 | [Saint] | I'm thinking of screen realestate alone. |
| 20:28:22 | [Saint] | and availability secondarily. |
| 20:28:53 | ChristW | Screen real estate would only be in the sense of being able to see the song titles, but that's need a _huge_ font anyway. |
| 20:28:55 | [Saint] | the iPod Classic is hugely expensive these days as it got discontinued and snapped up be eager hipsters. |
| 20:29:16 | [Saint] | If you can find one at a decent price (look in Pawm shops), go for it. |
| 20:29:24 | ChristW | My Classic is still working (and running Rockbox as well). |
| 20:29:42 | ChristW | Anyway, Rockbox has audio ouitput as well (for artists etc), right? |
| 20:29:54 | [Saint] | Yeah, if you want that to be a thing you enjoy doing in future I'd consider trying to find a replacement for the future now. |
| 20:30:05 | ChristW | You'd probably be able to navigate using that |
| 20:30:25 | [Saint] | Yes, it does. |
| 20:30:44 | [Saint] | Though if you are even partially sighted it would probably be better to depend on the UI. |
| 20:31:00 | [Saint] | while voice support exists it is fairly cumbersome. |
| 20:31:33 | [Saint] | and it requires micromanagement of files. |
| 20:31:46 | [Saint] | but if that is an issue or not is largely a personal thing I guess. |
| 20:32:13 | ChristW | Hum. |
| 20:32:37 | [Saint] | It isn't that bad really I guess. Just another step. |
| 20:32:55 | ChristW | So, I could better check with her if navigating Rockbox by sound is 'doable' and then pick up 'a' player supported by the setup utility? |
| 20:32:55 | [Saint] | Having to point RbUtil at the device to generate talk files every time the media gets updated/replaced |
| 20:33:19 | ChristW | It isn't updated that often. |
| 20:33:28 | [Saint] | If she can read fine from a large font on your Classic there shouldn't be an issue. |
| 20:34:09 | ChristW | True. |
| 20:34:10 | [Saint] | 234x320 is a fairly standard resolution, I can't think of anything readily available with a larger screen. |
| 20:34:33 | ChristW | Although I'm not sure if the latest (7th gen) iPod classic is supported by Rockbox _at all_. |
| 20:34:37 | [Saint] | such creatures do exist, but they are obscure and/or foolishly expensive and/or terrible. |
| 20:34:44 | [Saint] | ChristW: it is |
| 20:34:48 | [Saint] | well...kinda |
| 20:34:58 | [Saint] | same as the 6G. No difference. |
| 20:35:01 | ChristW | Well, I kinda installed mine to run it as well, so I'ce seen it before. |
| 20:35:17 | ChristW | (load emcore, boot, add rockbox, stuff, things, reboot, works just fine) |
| 20:35:23 | [Saint] | we create a binary, it'll run, we offer no way of booting it or a means to install a bootloader. |
| 20:35:28 | [Saint] | that's the official stace. |
| 20:35:35 | ChristW | I know, but it works. |
| 20:36:48 | [Saint] | Oh, I'm aware. I use these devices too (albeit solid state hardware modifications). Just trying to clarify two points. Technically you can't actually install Rockbox officially, but yes, the 6/7G Classics are supported. |
| 20:37:04 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 20:37:16 | [Saint] | Well...semantics, you can /install/ it officially, but not boot it. :) |
| 20:38:08 | ChristW | but emcore can boot it. |
| 20:38:12 | | Join RiD [0] (Ghost@bl22-27-170.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 20:38:23 | [Saint] | The 7G support isn't immediately obvious due to our binary being called ipod6g perhaps. |
| 20:38:42 | TheSeven | there's no such thing as a "7G" in the first place |
| 20:38:47 | [Saint] | but that's what it was when it started and the two aren't particularly interesting to distinguish between. |
| 20:38:50 | TheSeven | or "6.5G" or whatever |
| 20:39:48 | TheSeven | the "iPod Classic" devices (anodized aluminum front HDD-based devices) are all considered "6G" from a hardware point of view |
| 20:40:07 | [Saint] | Out of interest, whatever happened with your OF dualboot stripped bootloader? |
| 20:40:14 | [Saint] | did that die? |
| 20:40:36 | TheSeven | the only difference between the "sub-generations" being different hard disk models (for the different capacity versions) and added headphone remote support in the 160GB slim model (but not supported by rockbox) |
| 20:40:38 | [Saint] | is that still a thing, perhaps with auditable code that lives somewhere public? |
| 20:41:03 | TheSeven | oh and maybe an upgraded battery |
| 20:41:13 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 20:41:17 | TheSeven | also, within the series, there's a weird mix of different LCD display models, but that doesn't seem to align with the HDD models at all |
| 20:41:33 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:41:54 | TheSeven | so from a technical point of view, all HDD anodized-front ipods can be considered equal and are usually just called "classic" or 6G |
| 20:41:54 | [Saint] | that seems to be a product driven of hardware availability at the time and I find it interesting. |
| 20:42:31 | TheSeven | the rockbox bootloader for classic project kinda died, yes |
| 20:42:41 | TheSeven | I simply didn't get around to actually doing that |
| 20:43:32 | | Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) |
| 20:43:52 | TheSeven | there isn't much missing actually, most of the required bits and pieces exist within rockbox or emcore... it's just that someone needs to glue those together into an RB bootloader, add a bit of highlevel code for boot mode detection, package that whole thing into a DFU-bootable installer, and (and that's likely the hardest part) integrate the DFU boot process with rbutil |
| 20:45:14 | TheSeven | I got some friend of mine to play around a bit with the RB bootloader part, but that was never more than a quickly hacked up half-working prototype (like 2 days of work maybe) and I have no idea if that code even still exists |
| 20:46:19 | TheSeven | I'd be happy to assist with advice at least, but I don't think I'll get around to actually implement something in that area anytime soon (likely not this year) |
| 20:46:43 | TheSeven | subject to what I still remember myself of course, this is starting to fade... |
| 20:46:58 | [Saint] | With a working implementation, and DAPs being largely dead, it is hard to find motivation - I admit. |
| 20:47:21 | TheSeven | it's mostly an end user support / ease of use issue really |
| 20:47:31 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 20:47:39 | TheSeven | and doing things "the right way(tm)" |
| 20:48:30 | TheSeven | abusing emcore for that is working somewhat well, but this was designed as a tool for developers an power users, not really as an everyday bootloader solution |
| 20:49:40 | TheSeven | one reason why finally finishing that up might pay off is that you'd basically get dualboot support for free ;) |
| 20:50:05 | TheSeven | all the tricky stuff has been worked out, the OF can be booted through emcore now |
| 20:50:45 | TheSeven | i.e. we can emulate the full second-stage bootloader nowadays, which also means that we can nuke it from the flash without losing functionality |
| 20:51:16 | TheSeven | which, in turn, means that we have 128KB of flash space to play with (which is really plenty) without even having to modify the flash partitioning |
| 20:51:56 | TheSeven | it's also unbrickable because you have disk mode and DFU to recover, so losing the "reformat data partition" option of emcore doesn't really matter (disk mode can replace that) |
| 20:53:31 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 21:03:18 | TheSeven | so yeah, if anyone wants to hack on some code, please contact me ;) |
| 21:04:11 | * | TheSeven goes back to messing with that extraordinary badly documented piece of software called samba... |
| 21:16:14 | | Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 21:17:29 | Reihar | [Saint]: Should we continue here? |
| 21:17:57 | [Saint] | If you want to. |
| 21:18:17 | [Saint] | This is particularly straightforward. You have the bootloader, that's a one time thing. |
| 21:18:33 | [Saint] | Just extract a current binary archive to the root of your device and you're done. |
| 21:19:00 | | Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 21:19:18 | Reihar | I was using the rockbox utility |
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| 21:30:07 | Reihar | I'll play with the bootloader and discover all the changes later. |
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| 22:04:50 | goldfinch | sup |
| 22:05:03 | goldfinch | anyone fancy helping me out with something |
| 22:05:59 | goldfinch | i think i bricked my clip+ |
| 22:06:09 | goldfinch | havent tried draining the battery tho |
| 22:07:06 | | Join Bray90820 [0] (~Bray90820@173-20-157-7.client.mchsi.com) |
| 22:09:34 | goldfinch | crumbs i have to pop out for 15 mins. |
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| 22:22:44 | chrisb | has the sansa fuze+ been discontinued? the listings on amazon say so, but it is still listed on the sandisk website... |
| 22:25:22 | Reihar | I'm wondering something. |
| 22:25:48 | Reihar | Is pause when unplugging headphones a rockbox feature? |
| 22:25:49 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 22:26:11 | goldfinch | back |
| 22:26:28 | [Saint] | Reihar: it is |
| 22:26:36 | Reihar | [Saint]: device dependant? |
| 22:27:09 | [Saint] | yes. |
| 22:27:32 | [Saint] | though I can't offhand think of anything that is commonly used which can't detect headphone plug |
| 22:27:36 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 22:27:50 | goldfinch | installed rockbox, plugged in usb. froze, rebooted it ok, plugged it a second time and it froze again. now i turned it off and it doesn't turn on again. done some googling but i can't really find what to do next |
| 22:27:53 | [Saint] | I may well just be wrong, though. |
| 22:28:01 | goldfinch | any ideas lads? |
| 22:28:11 | Reihar | Oh. I can't find it on the clipzip latest dev release. |
| 22:28:27 | [Saint] | goldfinch: tried holding power? |
| 22:28:31 | goldfinch | yep |
| 22:28:31 | [Saint] | for 30s+ |
| 22:28:37 | goldfinch | no dice |
| 22:28:37 | [Saint] | it can take a long time. |
| 22:28:41 | [Saint] | ah. |
| 22:28:43 | [Saint] | hmmm. |
| 22:28:52 | [Saint] | looks liek you're waiting for your battery to die, then. |
| 22:28:53 | goldfinch | one sec i will try plugging it in and see what happens |
| 22:29:47 | goldfinch | hm. a 4mb unformatted F: drive appears. |
| 22:30:04 | [Saint] | Oh shit. |
| 22:30:14 | goldfinch | pls no |
| 22:30:25 | [Saint] | That is Not A Good Thing (TM). |
| 22:30:38 | goldfinch | lol i unboxed this thing like an hour ago |
| 22:30:50 | goldfinch | ah well. |
| 22:31:12 | [Saint] | It is kinda immoral, but, we're at a stage that if you RMA'ed it - they couldn't tell what happened. |
| 22:31:18 | [Saint] | just sayin'. |
| 22:31:35 | goldfinch | hah. |
| 22:31:39 | goldfinch | maybe |
| 22:31:41 | [Saint] | lets face it they're not going to forensically test it anyway. |
| 22:31:56 | goldfinch | i removed the microsd and the drive no longer appears |
| 22:32:00 | [Saint] | it'll be thrown in a pile and destroyed or refurbed and you'll get a new one. |
| 22:32:14 | goldfinch | it's only £35 anyway, but i'd like to see if i can make it live again |
| 22:32:33 | goldfinch | i'll check the microsd directly. |
| 22:33:11 | [Saint] | If it's what I'm thinking it is, the 4MB volume is actually resident on the NAND |
| 22:33:18 | [Saint] | but lets hope it isn't that. |
| 22:33:21 | goldfinch | yep that sounds plausible |
| 22:33:41 | goldfinch | well the microsd is formatted so - i guess it's internal |
| 22:34:00 | [Saint] | this is all we know |
| 22:34:02 | [Saint] | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMS#Unbricking |
| 22:34:17 | goldfinch | odd how the 4mb vol doesn't appear without the microsd loaded, though. |
| 22:34:22 | goldfinch | i'll take a look, thanks. |
| 22:34:54 | goldfinch | "it's practically impossible to brick your player without modifying the mkamsboot tool." |
| 22:34:55 | [Saint] | goldfinch: that is interesting, yes. |
| 22:34:57 | goldfinch | welp |
| 22:35:06 | [Saint] | and not a correlation I have ever seen made before. |
| 22:35:51 | goldfinch | could be something goofing in the firmware i guess |
| 22:35:56 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 22:36:06 | [Saint] | this is really the relevant page the latter leads to |
| 22:36:07 | [Saint] | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSUnbrick |
| 22:36:36 | [Saint] | we have no idea why this happens or why this "recovery" works |
| 22:37:12 | [Saint] | there have been a few odd batardized versions of the process (different steps and different orders) that have achieved working devices, as if by magic, as well. |
| 22:37:33 | [Saint] | though I'm not convinced they were "bricked" or hung _reaaaaally_ hard. |
| 22:37:43 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 22:37:45 | goldfinch | sounds like i might as well freeze it |
| 22:38:40 | goldfinch | i guess it's time to wait for the battery to drain, then |
| 22:38:45 | [Saint] | the one universal thing I know about this occurrence is that the 4MB volume is Bad News (TM). |
| 22:39:05 | [Saint] | I don't honestly think I've ever seen a player recover from this state. |
| 22:39:25 | [Saint] | If it presents a 32 or 64MB volume, then /usually/ recovery is possible. |
| 22:39:30 | [Saint] | We've no idea what this means. |
| 22:39:34 | goldfinch | i'm amazed that rockbox killed it so bad |
| 22:39:43 | goldfinch | hey, it just turned on |
| 22:39:43 | [Saint] | So am I. |
| 22:39:48 | goldfinch | wtf |
| 22:39:51 | [Saint] | This is definitely an all time speed record. |
| 22:39:58 | [Saint] | this is a first I believe. |
| 22:39:59 | goldfinch | easy come easy go |
| 22:40:57 | [Saint] | It is really hard to think what we could be possibly doing. |
| 22:41:06 | Reihar | Little high, little low |
| 22:41:16 | Reihar | Sorry. |
| 22:41:21 | [Saint] | As far as I am aware a huge body of this code is reversed directly from disassembling the original firmware. |
| 22:41:23 | goldfinch | lol |
| 22:41:36 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:41:44 | goldfinch | i wonder if i can brick it again |
| 22:41:46 | [Saint] | I am personally a lot more intimate with the iPod devices. |
| 22:41:50 | [Saint] | And Android. |
| 22:41:57 | [Saint] | Not the Sansas and others. |
| 22:42:19 | goldfinch | i was just hoping to get around the 8000 song limit i read about |
| 22:42:26 | goldfinch | otherwise, the stock firmware seemed ok |
| 22:42:31 | [Saint] | (and even then my intimacy with most iPods (non PortalPlayer) stops at very low levels) |
| 22:43:18 | goldfinch | to note is that the microsd is formatted exfat |
| 22:43:24 | goldfinch | know if that could cause problems? |
| 22:43:31 | [Saint] | What I personally believe is happening is that SanDisk has a batch of bad NANDs. |
| 22:43:36 | goldfinch | ah. |
| 22:44:01 | [Saint] | I really can't see how we'd essentially trigger a self destruct. lol |
| 22:44:18 | [Saint] | (sorry to make light of the situation) |
| 22:44:33 | [Saint] | I mean, I not saying it isn't Rockbox's fault. |
| 22:44:42 | goldfinch | hey it's cool he's alive |
| 22:44:53 | goldfinch | for now |
| 22:44:54 | [Saint] | What I'm saying is that, at a technical level, I have no idea how we would do this even if we wanted to. |
| 22:44:59 | goldfinch | hahah |
| 22:45:20 | goldfinch | perhaps the 4mb partition is already on the nand somewhere |
| 22:45:20 | goldfinch | idk |
| 22:46:10 | [Saint] | either that or some layer on the SoC that gets exposed somehow during this mess. |
| 22:46:26 | [Saint] | Some form of diagnostic we aren't supposed to see or poke at. |
| 22:46:28 | [Saint] | I have no idea. |
| 22:46:35 | goldfinch | gunna format this sd fat32 |
| 22:46:43 | | Quit Ivoah (Quit: Leaving...) |
| 22:47:13 | [Saint] | If this thing recovers, especially spontaneously, it'll definitely be on the Weird Shit list. |
| 22:47:34 | [Saint] | ANd no, while exFAT won't get detected by Rockbox it also won't care about it either. |
| 22:48:39 | goldfinch | oh ok, well that explains why it wasn't being detected |
| 22:49:08 | [Saint] | 64GB+ volumes in sd are required to be exFAT for some odd reason. |
| 22:49:22 | [Saint] | But there's no reason to keep it that way, and ROckbox only does FAT |
| 22:49:38 | [Saint] | *required to be exFAT on shipping |
| 22:50:18 | goldfinch | yeah, and windows didn't want to format it to anything else natively (except ntfs which is exceedingly shitty0 |
| 22:50:30 | goldfinch | sorted now. let's see if i can not brick it |
| 22:50:51 | | Join Ivoah [0] (~Ivoah@p-74-209-21-192.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net) |
| 22:51:24 | goldfinch | ayyy working fine |
| 22:51:32 | [Saint] | ... |
| 22:52:00 | [Saint] | You just won the Internet my friend. |
| 22:52:35 | [Saint] | On the Weirdshitometer, that rates about a 10 |
| 22:53:04 | goldfinch | :D |
| 22:53:13 | goldfinch | now i'm gunna plug it in by usb |
| 22:53:34 | [Saint] | I haven't ever seen one of these devices in this state recover ever. |
| 22:53:40 | [Saint] | Let alone largely spontaneously. |
| 22:54:23 | goldfinch | it now also works fine via usb :) |
| 22:54:46 | [Saint] | "hard power button now working"+"4MB volume" until this moment meant certain death as far as I am aware. |
| 22:54:49 | goldfinch | i guess this is karma for giving £1 to a homeless dude the other day |
| 22:55:06 | [Saint] | And I've recovered a few of these, directly and indirectly (through people in your situation). |
| 22:55:13 | goldfinch | interesting |
| 22:55:19 | [Saint] | Yet never seen this. Ever. |
| 22:55:28 | goldfinch | i wonder what happened haha. i was just fiddling with it. |
| 22:55:28 | [Saint] | Well done, Sir and/or Madam. |
| 22:55:42 | goldfinch | like rotating it in my palm as i typed. |
| 22:55:47 | goldfinch | maybe that's the trick. |
| 22:57:07 | [Saint] | So I guess if this ever happens again I can have some form of hope that these devices haven't committed suicide. |
| 22:57:24 | goldfinch | k i plugged it in again and the drive isn't accessible, but it hasn't frozen |
| 22:57:38 | goldfinch | this thing is seriously goofy |
| 22:57:56 | goldfinch | i might just uninstall rockbox while i still can |
| 22:58:59 | goldfinch | hm it's intermittant. might blame the cable |
| 22:59:30 | [Saint] | You may want to use the original firmware for USB access. |
| 22:59:41 | [Saint] | Our fine manual describes dual-boot. |
| 22:59:45 | goldfinch | ah i see |
| 22:59:58 | goldfinch | that sounds like a safe option |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:00 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 23:00:12 | * | [Saint] must away for some moments but idles with ~94% uptime |
| 23:00:26 | goldfinch | okedoke. thanks for your help |
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| 23:10:07 | | Quit goldfinch (Changing host) |
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