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#rockbox log for 2015-07-12

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00:53:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:56:58prof_wolfffSaint: about g#379, modifying PHTIME register works well on my 80Gb iPod but had troubles on 160 thin iPod, i want to experiment a bit more with this register but probably the final solution will be to increase frequency when LCD is used, not the boosted frequency but an intermediate one, i was thinking on 36MHz for not boosted and the current 54MHz when LCD is used
00:57:04fs-bluebotGerrit review #379 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/379 : iPod Classic: experimental CPU freq/volt scaling by Cástor Muñoz
01:00
01:00:09prof_wolfffanother TODO is increase I2C frequency when not boosted (I2C works well at low speed but faster clock is better to decrease a bit the power consumption), ATM i have tested in emCORE some #defines and a few functions that describes how i am figuring the s5l8702 clocking section works (including a nice ascii graph :), this should to be ported to RB to make the final g#379 patch more readable (freq step up/down, clockgates names...), a
01:00:09prof_wolfffll this work is stopped because i am focused on the dualboot, will be very glad if all other patches are commited, that will save lots of dependencies madness on my local dualboot branch, i tried to enter gerrit a few days ago but the Google ID is down, is there any solution to this?
01:00:13fs-bluebotGerrit review #379 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/379 : iPod Classic: experimental CPU freq/volt scaling by Cástor Muñoz
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01:20:21 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
01:20:25[Saint]prof_wolfff: not one that doesn't require the assistance of a Stenberg, no.
01:21:27[Saint]Those of us remaining in this project really need to have a formal discussion on what we intend to do with the carcass of Rockbox.
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01:22:34[Saint]It is possible to recover the gerrit instance on the Haxx server, but I honestly don't think we want to.
01:23:00[Saint]As it will always require bugging at least one person who stated freely that they have little to no desire to remain in the project at that level.
01:23:26[Saint]So the big issues needing discussion are versioning control and task submissions, and the build server backend.
01:24:38[Saint]In the interim I'll try to get the commits I mentioned pushed to ease the load on you somewhat.
01:24:46 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:25:31TheSevenanother thing to consider while shuffling around build stuff are the firmware, sim and android dailies
01:26:06[Saint]Aha. Yep. You want out too I imagine? Understandable. Those get taken for granted.
01:26:35[Saint]I could take over Android trivially, though my server would need some tickling to take care of all the sims reliably.
01:26:36TheSevenI can continue to host them, but I'm not actively watching/maintaining that stuff
01:26:42CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 2 hours and 12 minutes at the last flood
01:26:42*[Saint] nods
01:27:01TheSeveni.e. one might end up with a similar situation as with homepage/forum/gerrit/whatever
01:27:46[Saint]The horrible conclusion that is dawning on me is that we'll be stuck with bloody Github.
01:28:22TheSeventhat might not be too bad after all
01:28:24[Saint]Which is weird, and needs its own discussion and has its own problems, as there's already a Rockbox mirror there but I have precisely zero idea who is governing it.
01:28:46[Saint]TheSeven: ...yeah-ish...their push/pull request system is just retarded.
01:29:26TheSevenI guess it might also be a good idea to hand over port maintainership of the ipods to prof_wolfff officially ;)
01:29:27[Saint]No worse than the issues gerrit presented to new maintainers though.
01:29:36[Saint]I have a feeling gerrit helped kill us off.
01:29:44[Saint]it raised the bar far too high.
01:29:54[Saint]and upset our current submitters greatly.
01:30:31TheSevenI have a feeling that he is the only one with the combination of in-depth ipod-specific knowledge (likely exceeding what I remember by now ;), and who's still actively involved with development
01:31:21TheSevenfreemyipod's infrastructure is rotting away as well... build system is dead since at least a year
01:31:39[Saint]he should be given a medal for managing to navigate the myriad freemyipod trees and building emCORE.
01:31:40[Saint]:p
01:31:48TheSevenit's about time to get that rockbox bootloader finished and finally get rid of that freemyipod dependency
01:32:04TheSevenoh, it isn't *that* bad :P
01:32:16TheSevenmastering the ipod's weird undocumented hardware is far worse ;)
01:34:13TheSevenas far as I can see right now I'll be able to continue the level of involvement that you've been seeing during the last year (passively watching things, keeping infrastructure running, assisting with questions about stuff that I've developed) for at least another year
01:34:55TheSevenit's highly unlikely to increase again beyond that though, and I have no idea what I'll be doing in 2017
01:35:08 Join JanC [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
01:35:28TheSevenfun fact: there are still 3 ipods sitting on my desk, *right next* to my laptop, one is even connected to a USB hub
01:35:40TheSevenI haven't powered them up in several months though
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01:35:55[Saint]I'm willing to bet one or more is almost entirely disassembled too.
01:36:02TheSevennot at all ;)
01:36:11[Saint]colour me surprised. :)
01:36:28TheSeventhe two that I had disassembled a while ago have been nicely put together again
01:36:44TheSevenheck, I even replaced that nano2g's bad LCD half a year ago or so ;)
01:37:40TheSevenI've lost track about that "flaky disk" classic though - judging by the weight it probably has one of tarkan's adapters inside right now
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01:42:25TheSevenso yeah, to summarize: I guess it might make sense to plan taking over the various things that I'm involved with (rasher builds, emcore/freemyipod) or just get rid of the dependencies during the next year or so
01:49:39prof_wolfffTheSeven:
01:49:40prof_wolfffi am ready to take the ipod RB devel relay, as you know i joined RB as an advanced user that enjoys music and low level development, i can't promise a continuous development because sometimes i am so busy, but other epochs i had some free time i want to dedicate to it
01:50:00[Saint]"as you know i joined RB as an advanced user that enjoys music and low level development"
01:50:06[Saint]...that explains everyone here.
01:50:08[Saint]:)
01:50:10TheSevenlooks like you're definitely spending more time on it than I am
01:50:47[Saint]In all fairness the work I want to get committed from him has been sitting there for an absolute eternity.
01:50:54[Saint]He's just exceedingly patient.
01:52:25prof_wolfff:) as you say, the code is there, so anyone can use it, but i agree that its time to make a stable version including dualboot and the RB installation tool
01:53:38prof_wolfffi am not a fan of apple, but i think that the iPod port and the Sansa work will maintain RB alive
01:54:24prof_wolfffi think that we can support nano 2G,3G and probably also 4G
01:54:54TheSevenprof_wolfff: NAND/FTL is looking like a major roadblock on 3g/4g
01:55:06TheSevenheh, did the archoses finally get dropped btw? ;)
01:55:51[Saint]Nope.
01:56:00prof_wolfffyes i know, but hopefully the decrypted OF is there ;) it is a matter of time and patience
01:56:26TheSevenyes, crypto has been cracked down completely on those
01:57:00TheSevenbut I have serious doubt if anyone will have the required time to take care of those two generations, and if that time would be wisely spent there
01:57:20TheSevenI wouldn't expect many people to have those, especially the 3g
01:57:30TheSeven4g maybe a bit more, but not many either
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02:01:30prof_wolfffi have access to a 3G, the dualboot code i am preparing is ready to support the 3G, the problem is the FTL, probably the next stage once the 6G will be stable
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02:02:07TheSevenmy brother has a 3G somewhere as well, guess he hasn't touched it for years
02:02:10[Saint]The 3G is one of those messy targets where mainly everything already exists in one form or another in other devices
02:02:21[Saint]but - yeah, FTL shennanigans.
02:02:41[Saint]It is essentially just a flash based iPod Video for most intents.
02:02:50prof_wolfffit uses s5l8702, i suspect the only difference with classid6G is the NAND vs HDD
02:03:09TheSevenI think it also has a different PMU, which is going to be a PITA (no docs at all), but might be laying the foundations for the 4G
02:03:19[Saint]oh?
02:03:21[Saint]Hmmm.
02:03:26[Saint]I wasn't aware of that.
02:03:47TheSevenshould be very similar to the 4G's PMU which is partially covered by our code (things like backlight control etc.)
02:04:23TheSeventhe "old" ones (classic, nano2g) have one from NXP IIRC, the "new" ones (nano3g/4g) a cheaper one from Dialog
02:04:25prof_wolfffTheSeve: right!, looking at the OF, sometimes it seems it is the same as the 6G with a different power management
02:05:07TheSeventhe new one allows to control the backlight fade duration via i2c ;)
02:05:40[Saint]backlight_DSP_visualizer.rock
02:06:33prof_wolfffthe 3G and classic6G LCDs types also seems the same, what about 4G?
02:07:01TheSevendon't think they're really the same LCD, the nano3g one is a bit smaller I think?
02:07:25TheSeventhe command sets are very similar, even compared to nano2g LCDs
02:07:48TheSeveninit sequences are likely a bit different to adjust for slightly different panel parameters
02:07:57TheSevenbut yeah, LCD isn't going to be much trouble
02:08:33TheSevencurrently I don't think we even have SDRAM access on 3g though, because of the different PMU
02:08:40TheSevensame with clickwheel and flash
02:08:55TheSevenon top of that there will likely a few FTL changes
02:09:02TheSevenbut openiboot/idroid code might help with that
02:09:36TheSeventhey might be using a similar FTL on ipod touch devices released around the same time
02:09:44prof_wolfffyes, openiboot code have been very useful
02:09:54TheSevenand given that nano4g and touch 2g are based on the same SoC (s5l8720)...
02:14:52prof_wolfffTheSeven: i sent then CEATA patch to rockmyipod and he reports it works well, ATM i am preparing the patch to commit, this patch disables the features only for CEATA, i noticed the old code (before 20141804) used value 0x55 for the BIT(6) feature, while the actual code uses 0xAA value, i don't know much about these features, what is the correct value?
02:16:12 Quit cmhobbs (Quit: Leaving)
02:16:41TheSevenI think the current code should be correct
02:16:45TheSevenafter all that was a bug fix ;)
02:17:14TheSeventhe old code was completely broken though (some mixup in the set feature function), causing it to effectively do nothing at all
02:17:42TheSevenso repairing it made that CE-ATA issue surface for the first time
02:18:13TheSeventhese set feature commands are controlling write cache and readahead of the HDD firmware
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02:19:19TheSeventhe feature codes are documented in the ATA spec
02:20:18prof_wolfffrockmyipod is available to test a patch if we find a solution for CEATA, so i annotate that on the TODO list :)
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02:20:46[Saint]whom?
02:21:00TheSevensome CE-ATA ipod owner who ran into issues recently
02:21:18TheSevenI consider just removing these commands for the CE-ATA case (or ignoring their return value) a valid solution here
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02:21:50TheSeventhe truth behind this is likely that there are MMC commands as counterparts for these features on CE-ATA disks
02:22:03TheSevenI think I played around with those ages ago, and they didn't seem to have any effect either
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02:23:15TheSevengiven the small number of CE-ATA users, and that we didn't have issues with cache behavior on neither CE-ATA nor PATA during the several years when this was broken, I probably wouldn't spend any additional time on it
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02:24:04prof_wolfffas you say probably these features has no effect, i will commit a patch disabling them for CE-ATA
02:24:18TheSevensounds good
02:24:26[Saint]I have a CEATA device around here somewhere - buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut....
02:24:49[Saint]It was the one that shredded the HDD spindle bearings trying to run hddscan2 for a month.
02:25:12[Saint]it ded. he dieded.
02:25:50*TheSeven wonders why on earth apple did that CE-ATA experiment in the first place
02:26:04[Saint]I have a feeling ti was meeting supply demand.
02:26:37TheSevenI think toshiba was making a PATA version of that drive as well
02:26:42[Saint]Wasn't there some form of large natural disaster around that time that ground HDD production to a halt?
02:26:55TheSevennah, that was much much later
02:26:58[Saint]Ah.
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02:27:28TheSevenCE-ATA was 2007
02:27:42TheSeventhe thailand flood issues were in 2011
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02:28:58TheSevenby that time the non-CEATA 160GB model was already out for almost a year
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10:26:27apacheyhey guys, need your help with Sansa Zip Clip
10:26:50apacheyit freezed on pictureflow repairing album artwokr
10:26:56apacheyartwork*
10:27:16apacheywon't connect, won't shutdown, what i should do?
10:28:38lebelliumpress power for 30 seconds
10:29:38apacheyoh, thanks!
10:30:06apacheycan you tell me please, is pictureflow that problematic, or my database is really huge?
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13:55:13apacheyguys, my sansa clip zip behaves weird: screen is working, showing that track is being played, but i can't press anything, it won't respond. I suspect that there is no memory left nor in player, neither in card, makes it very hard to process anything
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