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#rockbox log for 2015-07-19

00:11:13 Join Strife89 [0] (
00:37:13 Quit [Franklin] (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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00:57:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:12:23 Join duuuddddeeee [0] (4d7d9f2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
01:12:55duuuddddeeeewht ALiEnZIP theme is not working on dev builds of RB on clip zip?
01:15:45duuuddddeeeeit DOES work on 3.1.3
01:17:57 Quit Markmast_ (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
01:18:57[Saint]probably using some deprecated theme code.
01:19:02[Saint]not entirely unusual.
01:19:17[Saint]themes are user contributed, if the author doesn't maintain them...
01:20:43 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:22:53 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
01:23:26 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
01:27:23duuuddddeeeeI dont understand... can you explain me why its not working? *Saint
01:27:56 Quit ender` (Quit: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take Hofstadter's Law into account. -- Hofstadter's Law)
01:30:46 Quit dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:31:01 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
01:31:34[Saint]I thought I did. I'm not entirely sure how to word it any better.
01:31:47[Saint]"theme is probably using old code that is pissing the vastly newer core off"
01:34:25duuuddddeeeeso you say that newer rockbox versions arent just adding new options, but also removing old ones? but WHY???
01:35:46[Saint]No, I'm not saying that at all. That's what you inferred.
01:36:23[Saint]A metric fucktonne of bugs have been fixed in this time period. If that theme relied on (ab)using any one of those, intentionally or accidentally...well...this.
01:37:46duuuddddeeeethemes that are using bugs to work properly.... wait, WHAT???
01:39:16[Saint]The most obvious case of this that I can think of is that out-of-bounds viewports are no longer allowed. If a theme tries to draw outside the framebuffer, it will fail.
01:41:04duuuddddeeeebut if it tries to do so on the stable release what it does?
01:41:20duuuddddeeeei mean the theme is working
01:47:40 Join gregfrankenstein [0] (
01:50:11 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:50:34gregfrankensteinIs there a way to prevent the database from sorting all the The artists together? So The Beach Boys would be under B rather than T? I would consult the forum or the wiki, but I can't exactly do a search for "the" or "the artists".
01:51:39[Saint]There's a few ways you can do it.
01:51:41 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
01:51:57[Saint]tagnavi_custom, and/or album/artist sort order metadata tags.
01:52:42 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:53:42[Saint]I used to do something along the lines of changing the sort order tags to "Beach Boys, The"
01:53:54[Saint]But then I just stopped caring because the database is annoying.
01:54:31[Saint]Very few of the "old hat" Rockbox crew of staff and volunteers actually use it.
01:54:47gregfrankensteinI'm trying to find whether metaflac even has a sort order tag. I know id3 does, but yeah.
01:55:46gregfrankensteinOh neat it does.
01:56:21[Saint]If you'll note on the page linked there is a section with a tagnavi example that strips "The" from the display and sorting.
01:57:37[Saint]But this is highly broken way of handling it that only works for English.
01:58:02[Saint]Well...not highly broken, just, not particularly nice.
01:59:25 Quit [Franklin] (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:00:03 Join [Franklin] [0] (~franklin@unaffiliated/franklin)
02:01:00[Saint]You can just whip out the entire linked tagnavi_custom file from (example with the "The *" stripping), or use tidbits of it to build your own.
02:01:34 Quit duuuddddeeee (Quit: Page closed)
02:04:45 Join sethmhur [0] (~sethmhur@2002:43ec:f00d:1234:c939:a552:c289:9288)
02:05:37sethmhurI have a question am I able to install rockbox voice files on a ws 821 elimpis digital recorder?
02:07:07[Saint]gregfrankenstein: did you get those links bud?
02:07:14sethmhurWhat about a eclips 82g?
02:07:16[Saint]Just wanna make sure you're not chasing ghosts
02:07:35[Saint]sethmhur: all our supported targets are listed on the main page.
02:07:47[Saint]sethmhur: if your device is not listed there...then, no.
02:08:23gregfrankensteinI did. It didn't do what I intended and when I tried writing a custom tagnavi config I clearly botched the syntax or created a conflict or something because the boot screen hung when I started it up. I'll probably just so with the sort order solution, but thank you.
02:08:32sethmhurIs there a possibility in the future that these devices will be supported?
02:09:38[Saint]sethmhur: it is highly unlikely unless you do it yourself.
02:10:18sethmhurIs there a way I can do it my self. I got this player and digital recorder with out any voice support and would like to add voice support to it?
02:10:33sethmhurThe eclips I got for my birthday.
02:10:56sethmhurAnd the digital recorder I got from some blind thing.
02:11:09sethmhurAnd all I want to do is add voice support.
02:12:32sethmhurOkay thanks.
02:12:48[Saint]Honestly, though, I wouldn't bother.
02:12:56[Saint]Just find a device that is supported.
02:13:16 Quit krabador (Quit: Take The Time)
02:13:17[Saint]A new port is several hundred man hours work for a highly skilled developer.
02:14:19[Saint]Unless you're on some form of personal educational crusade, that is.
02:14:28[Saint]In which case the process is highly informative.
02:14:36sethmhurWhat version is best for a sandisk off of amazon.
02:15:27[Saint]Depends what you like in a player.
02:15:50[Saint]Am I to assume you're visually impaired and that a nice screen is not a high priority?
02:16:34[Saint]Or did I misunderstand "some blind thing"?
02:19:44sethmhurYes I can't see that is why I wanted to add voice support.
02:19:45[Saint]The Clip and Clip+ devices are reasonably popular and cheap enough to be disposable.
02:20:29[Saint]they have tiny largely shitty screens (which won't bother you), but fairly decent tactile feedback.
02:20:46[Saint]you can feel where the home button is so you'll always know where the other are.
02:21:08sethmhurThat is good so then I can add support for vvoice and I will be fine.
02:21:22[Saint]Indeed so.
02:22:16[Saint]The Clip Zip is a similar player, but it has a larger colour screen which won't be of any immediate added value to you.
02:22:32sethmhurI would convert movies to audio for long bus rides then I would listen to a movie on sunday and on Friday. The player I got had book marking but I wasn't able to use it so that is why I went with sandisk.
02:23:58[Saint]the best part of them IMO is the expandable storage.
02:24:32[Saint]the limited internal storage doesn't really matter when you can drop a 128GB micro sd in it for $50 or so
02:24:44sethmhurI always wonderd why someone haden't made a tarabit MP3 player.
02:25:22 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:25:57[Saint]mainly because it isn't really practical. That's an entire lifetime's worth of audio, even at a high fixed sample rate.
02:26:12sethmhurThat would be so cool thowe.
02:26:16sethmhurdang spelling
02:26:57[Saint]You could fill it up and put it on random and never hit the end of the playlist in your entire waking life.
02:27:24[Saint]that, and, most people don't have anywhere enar that much audio.
02:27:30sethmhurgrate for people in factorys.
02:27:34[Saint]I do - but I'm demonstrably insane.
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02:28:09sethmhurI'm sure some radio stations have tarabites of audio.
02:30:48*flyback wishes the m240 or the fuze+ had usuable ports
02:31:03flybacklove to upgrade the units I got my folks for bdat's yrs ago
02:31:53[Saint]The Fuze+ _does_ have a _highly_ usable port.
02:32:18 Part sethmhur
02:33:05[Saint]As should the m2** players but I can't speak for them.
02:33:29 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
02:34:17[Saint]flyback: if you're using the release - don't.
02:35:05flybackI wouldn't inflict that on my folks
02:35:08flybackthe m240 if I was using it mabye
02:35:09 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739)
02:35:14flybackbut the stock fuze thing is so lame
02:35:37flybackIF IT CAN'T DO .MOD .XM. S3M .IT
02:35:43[Saint]Inflict what? You seem confused. The development builds are _infinitely_ more stable than the release.
02:35:54flyback<[Saint]> flyback: if you're using the release - don't.
02:35:59[Saint]see above
02:36:10flybackok I thought you were saying it's still risky sorry
02:36:24[Saint]It never has been risky.
02:37:06[Saint]I'm just saying that if you're using the ~2 year old release - don't. Because we've come a long way since then.
02:37:20flybackcool :)
02:37:48flybackstill like to take another crack at fixing one of these damaged c100 units eventually :)
02:38:40[Saint]Yeah, that was a cool little player.
02:38:50flybackI got a bunch with the self brick bug
02:39:02flybackI suspect it's either bootloader or ftl corruption
02:39:14flybackI used one for a long time I would just tcc the firmware into ram
02:39:23flybackas long as the battery didn't run it it kept running
02:40:42flybackrun out i MEAN
02:41:24flybackfree tip for you guys dealing with used hw, stuff that been around the block etc
02:41:48flybackthis is the shit
02:42:00flybackI use it on my IT job all the time and bought some for co workers
02:42:09flybackjust don't smoke around it :)
02:42:30flybackgreat for getting a wad of crud off a solder pad before attaching wires etc
02:43:03 Join saratoga [0] (123e11e0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
02:43:25flybacki'd avoid spraying the screen but I have tested on a bunch of plastics etc that isopropyl alchol fouls up, no damage
02:43:35flybackgood shit :)
02:43:38saratogathe m200v4 basically works fine, just it turns off if you have the volume too high i think?
02:43:48saratogaprobably some voltage regulator set wrong
02:44:08flybackand don't huff it :)
02:44:15[Saint]that's at <0db too which..well...why?
02:44:17saratogathey're hard to find
02:44:20[Saint]so, yeah, not a biggie.
02:44:38[Saint]and, yeah - they are.
02:44:47flybackthx for the info :)
02:45:24[Saint]current git head has had a volume limiter in it for an age now so it's easy to avoid if it is still a thing.
02:45:40[Saint]I definitely remember it, but I'd have to go hunting for a while to find mine and test.
02:45:41saratogai tried to find one a couple years ago so that i could try fixing it
02:45:44saratogabut no luck
02:46:17[Saint]Hmmm...looking at it now, I wonder why we don't set a default volume limit at 0dB?
02:46:32[Saint]Does anyone ever actually _want_ to exceed line level deliberately?
02:46:45saratogait can be useful if you have quietly mastered music or use replaygain
02:47:01[Saint]that's the domain of the preamp.
02:47:07saratogapreamp is digital though
02:47:24saratogaclipping is probably more tolerable in analog
02:47:29saratogabut yeah its not super useful
02:47:38[Saint]still, I guess what I'm asking is - is this a minority or a majority feature?
02:47:55saratogapretty minority, but i don't see much harm
02:48:06[Saint]I'm /guessing/ most people don't even know why <0dB is "A Bad Thing" in most circumstances.
02:48:07saratogapeople generally expect stuff to distort if they crank it up earsplittingly loud
02:49:02[Saint]I wonder if technically we could get fucked over for not adhering to EU volume limit regulations.
02:49:14flybacksadly who knows :(
02:49:15[Saint]I posit so?
02:49:41flybacklike the EPA fining a ice cream company $50,000 for over-reporting how much fruit waste they discharged into the waterf
02:50:00flybacksome people exist just to jump at a chance
02:50:26flybacknot under, OVER
02:51:13[Saint]If anyone did try and lawyer up about volume limiting it'd be a pretty fun conversation "Hey, could you not do that?"; "No."; "K."
02:52:15gregfrankensteinHow long are these dev builds generally updated, anyhow?
02:52:21gregfrankensteinEr, how frequently?
02:52:32[Saint]Whenever there's a commit to the source.
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02:53:26saratogawe don't sell anything, so i don't think the EU cares about us
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02:59:56flyback[Saint] hahah
03:00:13flybackwell I hope my tip was useful to you guys since you gave me useful info
03:02:47flybackworks good on switches :P
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09:35:19pixelma[Saint]: last I remember Rockbox does not support the sorting tags in the database, so I'm a bit confused about your statements earlier
09:36:38[Saint]Hmmmm. I was running off memory, so it's highly possible and quite likely I screwed up - there was some process I automated to do this in Rockbox easily. I just need to find it.
09:36:55[Saint]Oh. That was easy.
09:37:12[Saint]Looks like I was exporting sortorder tags to the comment field.
09:38:54pixelmaguess that's something the original poster should know then...
09:39:56pixelmaIn case he'll be around another time
09:41:10[Saint]I was fairly sure I pushed him/her onto the "right" way to do this (tagnavi_custom), but s/he didn't, yeah, granted.
09:41:35[Saint]I used to do it this way when I used the database because it would "just work" without having to export a custom tagnavi file.
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16:58:21brotherlybroGuys, I installed Rockbox on Sansa Clip+ and my folder structure looks like this: RECORD, ##PORT#, PODCASTS, ##MUSIC, MUSIC, AUDIOBOOKS, AUDIBLE, UPGRADE.FIN, SYSCONF.SYS, MTABLE.SYS, DID.bin. What can I remove? I won't ever run the OF again... This seeems like it's too much
16:58:44brotherlybroOh, forgot to mention the .rockbox folder
17:00:29gevaertsEverything except .rockbox
17:00:55gevaertsThe OF will recreate most of those if you boot it though
17:02:55brotherlybrogevaerts: Okay. Thanks, bro
17:03:06brotherlybroOh, a couple more questions
17:03:27brotherlybroI want to compile the Swedish Chef lang file under *NIX
17:03:41brotherlybroWhere do I find the genlang utility?
17:03:42 Join xorly [0] (
17:04:58[Saint]I highly suspect you'll apply it once and then get pissed off about not remembering the menu structure and how to apply the original locale without resetting your config.
17:05:06[Saint]It really is very highly silly.
17:05:38brotherlybroWhy do you take me for an idiot? ;_;
17:05:54brotherlybroI want to really get to know the project
17:06:13brotherlybroBecause it seems interesting. I am new to MP3 players and Rockbox, but want to leran
17:06:19[Saint]Why do you infer such a thing? Do you know the menu layout like the back of your hand and can navigate it blind?
17:06:31[Saint]'cos...if you don't...
17:06:37brotherlybroI can write it down :P
17:06:42brotherlybro???? PROFIT
17:07:45[Saint]anyhoo - rockbox/master/tools/genlang in our source tree
17:07:58brotherlybroOkay. Many thanks to you
17:08:31brotherlybroHmm, one more question. I did find some *.zip file in the lang folder. What is it for? :P
17:08:43brotherlybroAnd how do I make the voice menus work?
17:09:37[Saint]If there's an archive in the lang folder (on device or in the source), you put it there.
17:09:41[Saint]Ask yourself.
17:09:56brotherlybroI mean, why is it even compressed? :P
17:10:13[Saint]Ask yourself. I have no idea what it is. You must have put it there.
17:10:23[Saint]It does not exist in our builds or source.
17:10:27brotherlybroI see
17:11:53brotherlybro[Saint]: Please, download this and take a look:
17:12:28brotherlybroIt is in ./rockbox/langs/
17:12:35[Saint]Hmmm...what the shit?
17:12:39[Saint]My apologies.
17:12:57brotherlybro[Saint]: I am glad that I was of some use to you :P
17:13:25brotherlybroIt's okay. I really fucking love this project, so I want to really got to know it... So I can help you out a bit :P
17:13:50brotherlybroSo, what is this fucking archive anyway?
17:14:54[Saint]errr - sec. trying to figure out how and where my tree diverges here as none of my builds include this.
17:15:09brotherlybroI see. I will wait, bro. Take your time.
17:15:13[Saint]I just made an ass out of myself. :-S
17:15:32brotherlybro[Saint]: I won't tell anyone, promise :P
17:15:33[Saint](not an uncommon occurrence)
17:15:54brotherlybroLet's just be friends and answer my questions regarding Rockbox later, k?
17:22:14[Saint]Hahahahaha - that's really quite an effort, apparently I either broke this accidentally or deliberately the better part of three years ago.
17:22:48brotherlybroWhat seems to be broken?
17:22:55[Saint]seems it's for RbUtil voice file generation - but I really have no idea why it is implemented this way and doesn't just parse the strings direct from the lang file.
17:23:24brotherlybroOh, I see. Bother to fix it?
17:23:59[Saint]Ah - when I say broken, I mean in my local tree - it's working as intended on your end.
17:24:13 Quit krabador (Quit: Take The Time)
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17:24:22[Saint]so for the better part of three years I had no idea was a thing.
17:24:48brotherlybroI see. So we would need to have a parser, so it doesn't look that dumb, right?
17:25:03brotherlybroAnd change the RbUtil :P
17:26:50[Saint]Unless I'm mistaken in what I see here rbutil should still support voice generation if this file is missing.
17:27:23brotherlybroHmm, okay. So, you mean the voice file for the voice menus?
17:27:50[Saint]I do.
17:28:31 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful)
17:29:04[Saint]I suspect it's time to cherrypick the commits I want and ditch this tree of mine. This is the second longterm breakage I've created in my tree without realizing it in as many weeks.
17:30:01[Saint]I have touched almost every corner of the source so at a glance it is really hard to see what was intentional and what happened by accident.
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17:30:10brotherlybroI see.
17:30:43[Saint]I suspect if I went looking I'd find more.
17:31:10brotherlybroHmm, one question. I want to make the voice menus work. The manual says that I use this: How do I make it work? Does it function as a plugin?
17:31:34brotherlybroSorry for the badly-edited message
17:31:56[Saint]just extract it to the root of the device.
17:32:14brotherlybroI see. Do I need to turn on some options later on?
17:32:18[Saint]voiced menus are enabled by default, so as soon as that happens it'll magically work.
17:32:35[Saint]unless you disabled them, they should be active already.
17:32:40brotherlybroOh, cool. Gonna try it and see if it works, so we can find more bugs lol
17:32:49brotherlybroI really love the project
17:32:55[Saint]otherwise blind people would need to hunt through menus they can't see to enable it.
17:33:07[Saint]which - get it.
17:33:57brotherlybroHmm, one more question I have: Unicode
17:34:17brotherlybroI used an Unicode font and theme, but the file manager still messes up the characters
17:34:35brotherlybroSame with the "Load FM preset" menu
17:34:53brotherlybroI tried both Release and Dev Build
17:34:55[Saint]wrong page code probably.
17:35:25brotherlybroI see. Well, gonna try to fix it. If I find some bugs, I gonna report back :P
17:35:44[Saint]just set the page code in the language menu to utf-8
17:35:56[Saint]it's ISO-8859-1 by default iirc.
17:36:32brotherlybroIt didn't work in the Dev Bulid. Hmm, maybe I can edit the *.cfg file by hand. I also don't know where to find this codepage option in the Release
17:37:43[Saint]settings - general settings - display - default codepage
17:37:50[Saint]our manual is awesome, btw.
17:38:09[Saint]it is indeed Latin ISO-8859-1 by default.
17:38:15[Saint]set it to utf-8
17:38:58brotherlybroAlright. Thanks for everything.
17:40:11[Saint]see also for more info
17:43:03brotherlybrolol bro, add Emacs to the "Text editors supporting Unicode"
17:44:22brotherlybroOr do you consider it to be an OS? :P
17:47:02 Quit fotografisto (Quit: Leaving)
17:47:59brotherlybro[Saint]: The FM presets are messed up hard (some of the links don't work - see India) and the archives are OUTDATED:
17:48:25brotherlybroWould be nice to wget this shit and make a new *.zip
17:48:34[Saint]wiki is wiki
17:48:55brotherlybroDo you know any more sites where I can find the presets at?
17:49:00[Saint]it's only as complete and up-to-date as $some_guy decides to make it.
17:49:19[Saint]in many instances it's outright wrong.
17:49:25[Saint]'cos, wiki
17:49:42brotherlybroI see. Any *.fmr sources suggestions?
17:52:45 Join flughafen__ [0] (
17:53:12flughafen__is there a guide for what the icons mean? i have a sansa clip +, and there is a weird icon in the upper right and it'll make ac ouple of pop sounds and then shut off
17:54:01brotherlybroOh, lol, I had the same. [Saint] ?
17:54:39[Saint]flughafen__: probably disk access
17:55:02[Saint]looks approximately like a weird hour glass kinda shape?
17:55:19brotherlybroI had a thunder-like icon :P
17:55:46brotherlybroAnd the battery was charged
17:56:02brotherlybroDischarging indicator?
17:56:05[Saint]yeah - a circle thing with a couple of triangle-lookin' dealies inside it.
17:56:12[Saint]disk access
17:57:14flughafen__it's not that, juust a second
17:57:32flughafen__a arrow with a squiggl thingie in a weird box shape.
17:57:36flughafen__i should probably just take a photo
17:58:08[Saint]is it connected to a power source currently?
17:58:21[Saint]sounds like your describing battery under charge.
17:58:25[Saint]but - lets see.
17:58:47flughafen__[Saint]: the battery under charge is i nthe upper left
17:59:01flughafen__i see the icon with and without being charged
17:59:57[Saint]to the immediate right of the clock you mean?
18:00:03[Saint]in the default status bar?
18:00:15[Saint]if so - disk access
18:01:08[Saint]unless you're using some theme that uses its own .sbs, in which case all bets are off.
18:01:36flughafen__[Saint]: but why would it make a couple of pops and turn off right away when I'm playing music?
18:01:54[Saint]because it fills the buffer and then stops.
18:02:10[Saint]playing audio != "constant disk access"
18:02:29flughafen__[Saint]: the music jsut doesn't stop, the whole device turns off
18:03:22[Saint]If it's to the immediate right of the clock and it's the default status bar it _must_ be disk access - I'm about 99% confident of this
18:03:29flughafen__[Saint]: and brotherlybro
18:03:44flughafen__ok, [Saint] it turns off even when i'm not playing music
18:03:48 Join neo3000 [0] (5792c9c0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
18:04:02[Saint]yep, disk access.
18:04:14[Saint](from sd apparently)
18:04:55flughafen__[Saint]: i thought mabe it oculd be from sd, but i took the sd card out and it still happens
18:04:57 Join Persits [0] (~Persits1@
18:05:46neo3000Hi, my sansa clip zip hangs on the rockbox boot loader ... OF does hang after the initial animation. I now realized that by holding the select button while connecting to USB, I have USB access to the player. However the partition table seems to be corrupt. Does anyone have some advice on what to do? Should I repartition the player?
18:05:50[Saint]To be perfectly honest I hadn't even noticed we had a separate icon for sd/internal until now. But, yeah, that's definitely a disk access icon.
18:06:49flughafen__but it doesn't make sense for it to turn off... there is probably a problem with the main memor?
18:07:22[Saint]if there were I would expect rockbox not to load at all.
18:07:30[Saint]as it is certainly managing to boot.
18:07:50[Saint]which implies the internal storage is at least partially intact.
18:08:11flughafen__but if i'm not playing the music, just cycling through the menu options and it just turns off
18:09:14flughafen__or if i do ntohing it powers off too
18:13:23 Join natanelho [0] (6d407649@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
18:14:03neo3000linux fdisk of the device returns 3933 MB, which seems right, but it returns 4 weird partitions (2x Netware, 3x Unknown type).
18:15:23natanelhoproblem- I run ubuntu from a flash drive(trial) and when I connect my clip zip I cant access its files. it shows me that its docked, but when I click it, it shows me an empty window. what should I do?
18:15:25neo3000I am wondering, if I should just create one new clean fat32 partition and put a .rockbox onto it ... but I am unsure ... Any ideas?
18:16:30neo3000Does someone have the partition structure of a working rockboxed clip zip at hand?
18:17:42brotherlybroneo3000: AFAIK you can just leave the .rockbox folder and it will work if you have a bootloader :P
18:19:17 Join natanelho_ [0] (6d407649@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
18:19:25neo3000brotherlybro: currently I cannot access the player at all as the partition table seems to be corrupt. So you would recommend to repartition it with one fat32 partition and put a .rockbox onto that?
18:19:44 Quit natanelho (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
18:19:48brotherlybroTry it and report back, k?
18:20:07neo3000brotherlybro: does that have any effects on the OF or is that completely in flash?
18:20:29neo3000flash - meaning somewhere else
18:20:38natanelho_what player do ya have?
18:20:52neo3000sansa clip zip
18:20:58natanelho_lol like me
18:21:08natanelho_whats da problem?
18:21:16neo3000stuck at boot loader ...
18:21:17[Saint]the OF exists on its own section of the nand.
18:21:30neo3000ok so I cannot destroy it by repartitioning ...
18:21:36[Saint]wiping all partitions off the NAND with a non-booting OF is a Bad Idea(TM).
18:22:08neo3000hmm ...
18:22:23neo3000so what's the Good Idea? :-)
18:22:38natanelho_what about installing latest firmware then re-install rockbox? allways works for my ZIP when it stucks
18:22:54neo3000I cannot do that as the partition is damaged
18:22:58neo3000it is not recognized ...
18:23:14brotherlybroUse some DECENT partitioning software to repair it
18:23:36neo3000linux fdisk does not recognize any existing partitions
18:23:54neo3000well it recognizes 4 partitions but no fat32
18:24:05natanelho_i think i saw somewhere a command for osx and linux to format badpartition...
18:24:15neo3000This doesn't look like a partition table Probably you selected the wrong device. Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sdb1 ? 778135908 1919645538 570754815+ 72 Unknown /dev/sdb2 ? 168689522 2104717761 968014120 65 Novell Netware 386 /dev/sdb3 ? 1869881465 3805909656 968014096 79 Unknown /dev/sdb4 ? 2885681152 2885736650 27749+ d Unknown
18:24:48neo3000I could also create a new fat32 filesystem on any of these partitions
18:24:58brotherlybro[Saint]: I report no UTF-8 option in the codepage menu on Rockbox 3.13 Sansa Clip Plus :P
18:25:34natanelho_neo3000: try to do it on the first partition
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18:27:51[Saint]brotherlybro: as far as I am aware it should be there - but, what with you using a build that is 2 years old and all...
18:28:02[Saint]please, guys, don't use the releases.
18:28:14[Saint]I know it isn't obvious and seems counterintuitive, but, don't.
18:28:47brotherlybro[Saint]: Okay
18:30:09neo3000cfdisk reports "Partition begins after end-of-disk" and exits
18:30:18natanelho_why does it called "stable release"?
18:30:38flughafen__whats the lastest release? it's been forever since i've updated and have 3.12
18:31:18natanelho_nothing changed.... no, realy! I mean it!
18:32:15flughafen__natanelho_: 3.13 or 3.1.3?
18:32:28natanelho_the first one
18:32:32brotherlybro3.13 is the latest RELEASE
18:32:42brotherlybroAnd we were talking about DEV BULIDS
18:32:45natanelho_look here
18:32:46flughafen__brotherlybro: ok
18:34:29natanelho_why the programming environment isnt written for windows?
18:35:08natanelho_WHY?!?!? i had to install dual boot since my pc is very slow and it cant run VM
18:35:18[Saint]because Windows based development is a hugely convoluted pain in the arsehole.
18:35:39*flughafen__ loves me some linux!
18:35:43[Saint]sane developers prefer getting things done.
18:35:56[Saint]as opposed to battling a terrible OS.
18:36:24[Saint]By all means - try and use CygWin, but shit _will_ break.
18:36:37[Saint]it'll also be slow as almighty Hell.
18:36:40brotherlybro[Saint]: Installed the latest dev bulid for Sansa Clip Plus: UTF-8 works fine for the player itself, but it still malfunctions for the file manager
18:37:26[Saint]is this perhaps some random missmatch of randomly acquired files off teh infowebz?
18:37:31natanelho_lol [Saint] why are U telling me that now?!?!?!? I already installed UBUNTU!
18:37:42[Saint]if so the encoding for any given file could be anything.
18:38:16[Saint]natanelho_: tell you what? Try and do something foolish...? Errr...Ok, go do it, I guess.
18:38:41[Saint]Compilation will take forever, and it'll almost certainly fail. Enjoy.
18:39:00brotherlybro[Saint]: They display just fine under Linux :P
18:39:14brotherlybroIt's just Asian and Eastern European characters
18:39:29[Saint]are you certain you're using a unicode font?
18:39:53[Saint]If you're not using GNU Unicode, I can't vouch for the glyph coverage at all.
18:40:00[Saint]*GNU Unifont, rather
18:41:31brotherlybroGonna take a look at that. Thought that the default font is Unicode-friendly already :P
18:41:48[Saint]It most certainly is not.
18:42:24[Saint]it need only have support for latin characters, as en-uk is the default.
18:42:31natanelho_is OSX based on LINUX/UNIX?
18:42:40brotherlybroUK? You British? :P
18:43:34[Saint]When you said you had a unicode font, I thought you weren't just guessing. Striking a balance between trusting people and doubting people who may or may not be mistaken is hard.
18:43:44[Saint]And my communication skills suck.
18:44:14PersitsosX is unix based
18:44:21[Saint]Also - No.
18:44:27brotherlybro[Saint]: It's alright. I was just trying to look around. I got the font pack installed.
18:44:28[Saint]But En-US is an abomination.
18:44:34brotherlybroI see
18:44:52[Saint]u's muthafukkas!
18:44:52neo3000[Saint]: Any more ideas on what to do (or not to do) to fix the internal partition table of my Clip Zip?
18:45:50[Saint]neo3000: I don't have sufficient knowledge about their partition layout to suggest anything I'm afraid.
18:45:56brotherlybroneo3000: Don't panic and try to repair the partition with something like chkdisk :P
18:46:13[Saint]just that nuking the NAND from orbit is almost certainly a Very Bad Thing.
18:47:13brotherlybroWell, it should not nuke it :P
18:47:24brotherlybroIt's just bitwise operations, right?
18:47:56brotherlybrojk, but seriously... Repair the partition
18:48:03natanelho_how to get desktop icon on this thing on the left side of ubuntu?
18:48:55neo3000brotherlybro: I have 4 partitions partly behind last cylinder. Testdisk does not find useable partition structure ... so I do not know of any tool that could help.
18:50:07natanelho_neo3000 remove Ur flash card b4 connecting to pc then try again
18:50:24neo3000natanelho_: I did that ...
18:51:22neo3000The only thing that would be possible is to create a new partition table with one fat32 partition and format that ... but i am unsure if that makes things worse ...
18:51:45natanelho_lol worse then now?
18:52:42neo3000natanelho_: well ... I fear that when I unsuccessfully did that, someone steps up here and says "ha, by doing that you destroyed your only chance to fix it" ... but in the end you are probably right
18:53:40natanelho_how did ya get in that situation?
18:54:16neo3000[Saint]: Do you know if the bootloaders USB mode just gives you pure access to the NAND?
18:54:39neo3000natanelho_: no idea ... just did not boot anymore ...
18:54:47neo3000could also be that the flash is damaged
18:55:17natanelho_but what was the last successfull(or un-) thing you have ddone to it?
18:55:24[Saint]as far as I'm aware, no, it'll require a filesystem - but if you nuke all the partitions, I doubt you'll _have_ bootloader USB.
18:55:31natanelho_it didnt just happend...
18:55:38Persitsjust place the device on one brick and give strong kick with the second one :))
18:57:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:57:41neo3000[Saint]: That's what I fear ...
18:58:35natanelho_man serusly search the net about how to unlock clip plus from federal prison usa
18:59:23natanelho_they just toook the clip+ andinstalled some OF that doesnt support USB
19:00:04natanelho_somebody explains about how to wtite some data directly to its memory guess itll help ya
19:01:05natanelho_now [Saint]: how to attach desktop icon to the damn thing on the left side of the ubuntu?????
19:01:43 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
19:02:47natanelho_nvm found out
19:04:36[Saint]pick up icon, drag it there, drop it, done.
19:04:44[Saint]but this is in no way generic Ubuntu support.
19:04:58[Saint](gotta draw a line somewhere)
19:05:30natanelho_i meant the icon that shows desktop when clicked on
19:06:25[Saint]ah - well, either way.
19:07:21natanelho_right click on desktop-> change BG-> behaviour-> add desktop icon
19:07:45natanelho_neo3000: check this out
19:08:46natanelho_he was stacked in similar situation as ya- the usb isnt mounting
19:09:44brotherlybro[Saint]: I report weird characters on the Unifont and UTF-8 codepage in the file manager :P
19:09:48[Saint]very different situation.
19:09:59[Saint]those players won't mount USB _by default_
19:10:03natanelho_why diffrent saint?
19:10:07[Saint]see above
19:10:27natanelho_both of them arent formatted
19:10:45[Saint]they're deliberately locked down by US corrections. They do indeed have a valid parition table.
19:11:00[Saint]they just don't present as removable storage.
19:11:24natanelho_can ya explain me dummy?
19:11:37natanelho_*im dummy
19:11:45[Saint]"US Prison make USB no worky-worky. Player otherwise fine"
19:12:13brotherlybro[Saint]: What do I do with the UTF-8 problem?
19:12:29natanelho_change the FONT!!!
19:13:10neo3000natanelho_: That is a comparable situation ... I will try that ...
19:13:13[Saint]If it isn't GNU Unifont, the glyph coverage is shit - as mentioned above.
19:14:28brotherlybroIt is the GNU Unifont called Unifont from the package listed on wiki
19:16:14[Saint]neo3000: that is a bastardized version of our (highly inadvisable) AMS unbrick wiki page with several inaccuracies.
19:16:19[Saint]IOW: I wouldn't.
19:16:47 Quit natanelho_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
19:16:47[Saint]To be perfectly honest I don't even recommend following our instructions either, which are correct.
19:17:05brotherlybroIt is "16 GNU Unifont" from
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19:20:16[Saint]neo3000: be advices that without a dump of a valid disk from a running player if you follow that guide verbatim (even if you make it past the misreported size), you'll almost certainly lose the ability to boot the OF and this is non-recoverable without asking someone to risk bricking their device making a valid dump for you.
19:20:18brotherlybro[Saint]: What do you say about my issue?
19:20:26[Saint]In other words - I warned you.
19:20:46[Saint]brotherlybro: the same thing I've been saying repeatedly - use GNU Unifont.
19:21:47brotherlybroI did
19:21:51brotherlybroStill shit :P
19:22:41[Saint]I dunno man. Honestly, the fucks I have spare are dwindling.
19:22:54neo3000[Saint]: Thanks for your advice ... I am still thinking on what to do ... the main difference in my case compared to all the cases I read on the net is that fdisk reports the correct flash size (4GB) in my case - so it is not 1GB and not 16MB, so that could mean that it is not the hidden OF partition and I would be alright by just repartitioning and formatting ...
19:25:58gevaertsIf the rockbox bootloader works (and it sounds like you're using it for USB now, so it does...) I think there's little or no risk just reformatting it
19:26:35gevaertsI'm not sure now if those sansas usually use a partition table or if they just put a filesystem on it, but that shouldn't really matter
19:26:55[Saint]well, we know there's a half-bakes magical no one knows how/why it works recovery method if it does fail.
19:27:15[Saint]I was just hesitant to suggest this as a valid option lest it fall on my head.
19:28:36gevaertsYou're thick-skinned enough to handle that :)
19:30:19gevaertsGoing to those magic speculative unbricking instructions if the bootloader still works and bootloader USB works and shows sensible numbers is madness. If it were my device I'd reformat it and unzip a fresh rockbox build on it without even thinking about it
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19:35:59neo3000gevaerts: ok, than I will do that ... hang on and keep your fingers crossed :)
19:37:25neo3000gevaerts: so just format the bare device - or put a vfat partition on it?
19:38:14gevaertsI expect both to work, but I'd start with the bare device
19:40:32neo3000mkfs.vfat, msdos or fat?
19:40:55gevaertsAs far as I know those all do the same thing
19:42:27neo3000working ... I guess it will take some time ...
19:42:51neo3000exciting ...
19:43:32neo3000sd 8:0:0:0: Device offlined - not ready after error recovery
19:44:06neo3000 usb 1-1: USB disconnect, device number 2
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19:45:07gevaertsHmmm, bad flash?
19:45:17neo3000it is dead ... could be just completely drained ...
19:47:11neo3000well then it is gone ...
19:48:33[Saint]we charge in the bootloader so I doubt it discharged.
19:50:23neo3000ok it is not dead (yet) ... I can boot into rockbox boot loader again.. Could the battery be so low that I cannot write the complete partition? Would the player load if I keep it in bootloader?
19:50:44neo3000then the flash is corrupt
19:51:26neo3000what is the normal reaction if you return a player with rockbox to the seller?
19:52:38gevaertsIf the flash is bad in such a way that it shows stable bad blocks, and you trigger those by formatting, they have to be near the start of the device. If so, writing a partition table with the partition starting a few megabytes (or tens of megabytes maybe) in *might* help
19:53:09[Saint]ooooh - interesting idea.
19:54:10gevaertsThat "stable blocks" is a very uncertain assumption though
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19:57:54neo3000partition type vfat (0B)?
19:58:09neo3000or vfat LBA (0C)?
19:58:54neo3000it is very slow ... writing the partition table takes very long
20:00:31neo3000same thing ... result: hostbyte=DID_ABORT driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
20:00:44neo3000is it of importance that I am doing that in a linux VM?
20:00:56neo3000linux on mac via Parallels
20:01:38gevaertsI don't think so
20:02:15neo3000I am also seeing strange USB related messages in the OSX syslog ...
20:02:32neo3000I will try it on Windows again - if that does not work, i think it is gone
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20:13:19neo3000I cannot even write the partition table ..
20:13:37neo3000so I guess ... it is time to say goodbye and let it go ...
20:13:52neo3000thank you all for your help and your support ...
20:14:19neo3000and thanks in general for developing rockbox ...
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22:53:15pixelma[Saint]: it's not different icons for disk access internally and externally but for hard disk or flash based players (in their stock configuration).
22:53:59[Saint]I...oh, thank you.
22:54:07[Saint]That makes very little sense. But, thank you.
22:54:39[Saint](I mean, what you said makes sense - it just doesn't make any sense to give flash based devices their own disk access icon IMO.)
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22:56:10pixelmaWell, the icon should represent a spinning disk or a card with a... flash symbol on it. Since there damn small it might be a little hard to make that out
22:56:14[Saint]Especially since it is quite obviously fashioned after an sdcard and not all flash based devices use an sd interface for internal storage.
22:56:32[Saint]But I suppose that is being too pedantic.
22:56:36[Saint]Or too literal.
22:56:37[Saint]Or both.
22:56:39 Quit Ivoah (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
22:56:59pixelmaThat one was created for the Ondio first (by me :P )
22:57:23[Saint]Well, that one makes sense. I'll give you that. ;)
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22:57:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:58:24[Saint]And, yes. At 8px high it just looks like a crude sdcard with the other disk access icon I'm used to inside of it.
22:58:38[Saint]But I suppose when you crush down to 8px high anything looks like anything.
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23:00:46pixelmaSorry, "they are"
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