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#rockbox log for 2015-08-21

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03:26:00wipt_what alts are there for the sansaclip? I've used clip, clip+, and zip over the past 5 years, and it seems the Sport isn't supported
03:27:46wipt_I'm guessing the market for these devices is growing smaller, but it's a shame they changed the arch, essentially ending rockbox support. Without rockbox, they're players are useless to me
03:35:05[Saint]Why not just buy another Clip variant?
03:35:11[Saint]It's not like they're hard to find.
03:36:42wipt_[Saint]: looking at doing that. Only issue is that they're 2x what they were previously.
03:36:48[Saint]Refurbished models are _everywhere_, the second hand market is pretty much flooded with Sansas of varying description, and even the occasional factory new model model pops up in the various online ratailers.
03:37:33wipt_I ordered a refurb once, had bad buttons - is that common?
03:40:26wipt_I'll try grabbing a few refurb models then
03:47:27 Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
03:59:38[Saint]I haven't a large enough sample size to tell you whether or not it is common.
03:59:53[Saint]All I can say is that I haven't had any problems with the ones I have had.
04:00:11[Saint]Which may or may not be an interesting and/or relevant data point.
04:01:14[Saint]I've probably come to own and/or pass on a couple of dozen refurbished SanDisk Sansa players of varying model, and I haven't found any glaring quality issues.
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22:03:32doobyhello i have a problem with my sansa fuze v2
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22:59:30 Join orzo [0] (
23:00:22orzoi'd like rokbox to provide a MediaPlayer service on android that other apps could use as a drop in replacement for the android MediaPlayer service
23:00:54orzothat would be a library-like product. Would it require those client apps to release as GPL?
23:01:44gevaertsThat's an interesting question I think
23:02:59gevaertsIf it's a drop in replacement, those other apps aren't actually developed for it, which I think means they aren't "derived works"
23:03:21orzoyes, but they might need to be configured to switch to rockbox over the android service
23:03:45orzoand they might take advantage of extra features of the rckbox servie
23:03:55orzosuch as playback speed cntrol
23:04:17gevaertsI'm not actually sure if an android service really counts as a library
23:05:52orzois rockbox licencing rights controlled by an organization?
23:06:37gevaertsIf you need a different license, it's a matter of identifying and contacting everyone involved in it (or in the bits you need)
23:06:46gevaertsWhich I think means "forget it"
23:07:02 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
23:07:45gevaertsBut at the moment I'm not convinced either way about there being an issue
23:08:46orzowell the service doesn't actualy exist, i'd have to develop it, and if its an issue, i'm obviously not going to do that development
23:09:14orzoas i want to use it from my proprietary app
23:09:29gevaertsI'd disagree with the "obviously", but that's a matter of personal preference :)
23:09:42orzowell okay
23:09:48orzobut its the case for me
23:10:13orzoif i was certain there'd be no problem, i'd create the android service from the rockbox code
23:10:58orzoi'm not really happy with the built-in mediaplayer
23:11:00orzoon android
23:11:12gevaertsI'd say someone, somewhere, *must* have done the analysis of GPL and android services
23:11:56orzoit seems counter the spirit of the license
23:12:08orzoi'd rather have rockbox cmmunity support
23:12:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:12:34orzoeither way
23:13:34gevaertsI'm not really sure
23:14:22gevaertsAnyway, my opinion doesn't really matter anyway. I do have some code in rockbox, but I don't think any of it is in the part you care about :)
23:16:10gevaertsGiven that many people would like proper android support and UI/playback engine separation, I'd say if you do this you'd likely get quite a lot of goodwill
23:17:29 Quit rela (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:17:57gevaertsWhether that's good enough might depend on details, which means looking for a proper analysis somewhere
23:20:37orzowhy do peopl ewant the separation?
23:20:59gevaertsBecause a properly working android app needs an entirely new UI
23:21:09orzoi've tried the android app
23:21:16orzoit seems to work
23:21:28gevaertsYes. That's not good enough :)
23:21:33orzowhat's wrong with it?
23:21:42gevaertsFor starters, it doesn't work on android 5
23:21:49orzowel okay
23:21:52gevaertsThen, the app is resolution dependent
23:22:03orzooh right
23:22:27orzodo you use the app yourself?
23:22:33gevaertsAnd the UI will never fit in seamlessly with other android stuff. We do have touchscreen support, but it will always feel bolted on and different from any other android app
23:22:50gevaertsNo. I have tried it, but I don't often play audio from android
23:23:04orzoi used to use rockbox but my player broke
23:23:22orzoand now i've built my custom UI for audiobook playback on android and i use that often
23:23:34orzobut i need to make money from it and plan to release proprietary
23:23:50 Quit Bray90820 (Remote host closed the connection)
23:24:01orzoi tried the rockbox app at some point during my development
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23:24:19orzoand decided i dont like it for the similar reasons to my not liking other android alternatives
23:24:35orzothe UI.
23:24:44orzomy UI is fairly special heh
23:25:51orzobut because i need to earn some money, i'm not comfortable releasing GPL and thus i can't use rockbox code for things i miss
23:26:04orzosuch as greater variety of file formats and speed-controled playback
23:27:13gevaertsI'm not sure the GPL would actually be an issue money-wise, but it is an open question at least
23:27:24orzoyeah i'm not 100% sure either
23:27:48orzoi'm not ready heh
23:28:15gevaertsI imagine the biggest issue could well be the hordes of people who misunderstand the GPL and think you can't ask money for binaries
23:29:38gevaertsThe people who grab the source and build their own won't be a vast majority, so your main issue would be alternative play store apps
23:30:00orzoi use them to get open source stuff
23:30:11gevaertsYes, but how many other people do that?
23:30:25orzoyeah, i don't know.
23:30:42orzothe thing is, i don't trust other devs in the market
23:30:54orzothey could grab my source and make their mod apps and compete with me
23:31:19orzoalthough i guess i'm not familiar with that sort of thing happening much
23:32:17orzothe market niche already has many options in the market
23:32:36orzoi'm different because of all the effort i've put into designing and impementing a very nice touch screen UI
23:32:49GaloisSE says no, but they don't care enough to make sure their answer is right:
23:35:28orzowhat's SE?
23:36:26Galoisthe stackexchange/stackoverflow family of web sites
23:36:42orzothing is, i can see myself dooing this work, and then providing my very nice interface to the service, and people end up prefering my interfae over a rockbox-project one and rockbox devs generally might consider that a kick in the teeth
23:37:20GaloisI don't think the rockbox devs really care about android either way
23:37:30Galoisif they did, there would be a better app by now
23:38:30gevaertsWith that reasoning, we'd have had several releases since 3.13 as well :)
23:42:54orzoofftopic, i had a notion of a project to turn rockbox firmware into a recovery firmeware for loading roms and restoring backups for android devices
23:43:07orzosince it was designed to run on bare hardware
23:43:24orzowe could have a really fancy recovery firmware that can play mp3s
23:44:07orzoim a big fan of the project but don't forsee myself owning a rockbox capable device ever again
23:44:21orzoi'm an android guy now heh
23:44:40orzoor linux desktop
23:44:47gevaertsMany people are. The standalone mp3 player is mostly history
23:45:03Galoisyes, sadly once google play music added gapless playback there's been no reason to use rockbox
23:45:05Galoisfor me , anyway
23:45:18Galoisand also, the play music library is something that rockbox won't have
23:45:21 Quit Ivoah2 (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
23:45:41gevaertsOn something like android you need integration
23:45:59GaloisI do actively choose android over ios because android supports ogg files easily
23:47:02orzoi've not used play music library
23:47:13orzoi dont even have google apps on my custom rom
23:47:39orzoi did install amazon's store
23:47:50orzobut the google apps take over the device and cant be uninstalled
23:47:56orzoso screw that
23:48:12 Join Strife89|Desktop [0] (
23:49:28orzoi'll sell my app on google though
23:50:26Strife89Well, it would be near-suicidal not to
23:52:31orzoi suppose my cusotmers will want play music integration
23:52:42orzowhat a chore
23:53:13 Quit JanC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:53:21orzoheh, i notice the crowd punishes good stuff for bad reasons
23:53:37orzolike all the printing apps are stupid cloud-based things
23:54:02orzobut this one guy has a really nice app that uses standard protocols to find the printer on the lan and configure and lets you print normally
23:54:29orzoand this app is rated lower than all the cloud crap
23:55:13orzopeople actaully want a third party involved to help them print shit. :|
23:55:18Strife89|DesktopThis should be moved to #rockbox-community, but I'm curious what app
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