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#rockbox log for 2015-08-23

00:06:56 Quit gbl08ma (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
00:11:15 Quit YuMiki (Quit: YuMiki)
00:13:18 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
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00:52:28JanCSansa Clip+ is still easy to get too...
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01:12:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:21:21 Part NRG
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03:32:12 Join naraic [0] (~naraic@89.100.239.99)
03:32:17naraichey all
03:33:03naraicso my clip+, (rockbox'd) has been dead for about a year. i think i was running for the bus one day and it fell and started acting up a bit
03:33:16naraici figure the nand is damaged
03:34:14naraici can get it recognised by a pc but it freezes when i try to write new firmware/anything in both usb bootloader mode and the original firmware
03:34:28naraicwell actually i haven't managed to get it into the original firmware in ages
03:35:09naraicso i read about the AMSrecovery thing where you bridge the gap beside the down button on the front of the pcb
03:35:19naraicand i see a 30MB device
03:35:21naraicthat i can't access
03:36:00naraicactually, now that i check dmesg, i see two devices, the second with an unknown partition table...
03:36:01[Saint]She's dead, Jim.
03:36:42naraicif there are multiple partitions... does that mean i didn't get into the recovery mode properly?
03:37:04naraicor that the nand has just flaked?
03:37:51[Saint]Likely the latter. General rule of thumb from experience is that if that 30MB partition gets exposed it ain't coming back.
03:38:16[Saint]I haven't ever seen or guided anyone through a successful recovery of a device that exposes the 30MB volume.
03:39:58naraicokay, cool. thank you! :)
03:40:08[Saint]By all means try.
03:40:26[Saint]But if you can't get that larger partition exposed recovery can't offer you anything.
03:40:58naraicsince it seemed to start happening after a fall i imagine it's a hardware issue
03:41:08[Saint]I imagine so.
03:41:16naraici actually happen to have a bus pirate on the way to me
03:41:19naraicshould arrive on monday
03:41:43naraic(bus pirate can be used as jtag debugger)
03:42:11naraicand also have access to a nice microscope and soldering setup where i'm currently working
03:42:43naraicso i might try to wire up that jtag port and see what i can get out of it, for the fun of it
03:43:13naraicand then, when that probably leads to nothing, wouldn't mind trying to replace the NAND chip
03:43:33naraicdoes anyone know if replacement chips are available?
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04:22:22 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
04:25:36 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
04:25:57naraicseems i have a rev21 boards, it's actually different to the one in this picture http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/pub/Main/SansaClip/sansa_clipplus_3.jpg
04:27:22naraicthere's no 4th resistor below the pads i jumped
04:29:15naraicand also the 6pinned ic that's unpopulated on the bottom right of that board is populated on mine, c55 or something
04:30:30 Join scottj [0] (~scott@unaffiliated/scottj)
04:31:14scottjIf one's top priorities were nice screen and nice buttons, what would be the best rockbox-compatible mp3 players?
04:32:03scottjI have a sansa clip+ now, but the screen's not super easy to read in sunlight. my old ipod nano (2nd gen I think) is easier to read. also the buttons are pretty small.
04:32:29[Franklin]ipod 6g
04:32:41[Franklin]a.k.a. classic
04:33:15scottjhehe, if money were no object :) maybe something less than $200 (I'm guessing ipod classic is $400 now, at least it was $450 new the day after discontinued)
04:33:30[Franklin]hmm
04:33:42[Saint]There's no reason to prefer the Classic over the Video if screen and buttons are your only metric.
04:33:47[Saint]Precisely zero.
04:33:53[Franklin]the fuze has a big screen, but I'm not so sure about quality ;)
04:34:05scottjI was so close to buying an ipod 6g the week before it was discontinued bc I thought it would be discontinued. should have bought several bc I could have always returned them for $0 fee.
04:34:31scottj[Saint]: what is Video?
04:34:31[Saint]And, indeed - good luck getting a Classic 6G from anyone that is even remotely sane for less than $300
04:34:43[Saint]scottj: iPod Video, 5/5.5G
04:35:18[Saint]You have a nano, so obviously you don't care for storage capacity.
04:35:21[Saint]So the Video is fine.
04:35:32scottjI don't even need big screen, ipod nano 2nd gen is big enough, I just would like a bright screen
04:35:39[Franklin]ah
04:36:18[Franklin]so something with a backlight and big buttons then?
04:36:27scottjyeah
04:36:29[Saint]How on earth does someone manage to cope with 8GB (actually the 8GB ones were rare, so it's likely 4GB or 2GB) of storage in this day and age?
04:37:09scottj[Saint]: oh, I mostly use my sansa clip+ with 30gb microsd card. I don't use my nano much, mostly bc I have to use gtkpod to put music on it and it's a pain
04:37:32[Saint]...no you don't.
04:37:33scottjI don't have rockbox on the nano
04:37:38[Saint]Why?
04:38:26scottj[Saint]: I think years ago when I looked into it it wasn't supported and hadn't looked since. maybe it's 3rd gen, not sure. are both those gens supported?
04:38:29[Saint]It is infinitely superior, and you can remove that stupid gtkpod requirement.
04:38:44[Saint]1st and 2nd only.
04:39:04scottjI'll consider doing it
04:39:31[Saint]You must be talking about something other than 1st or 2nd gen I think, unless you're talking about 5~6~7 years ago.
04:40:05scottjlooks like 2nd and 4th gen are tall, and 3rd gen is short. from google images.
04:40:20scottjI'm probably in luck with 2nd gen
04:41:01scottjbtw it's 8gb
04:41:40[Saint]But, if the iPod Nano's screen is a metric of comparison for quality you can pretty much get any of the colour players supported.
04:41:50[Saint]Because the LCDs on the Nanos are truly awful.
04:43:32scottj[Saint]: do you have a favorite?
04:43:59[Saint]I do, but you've already listed it as a non-option for at least two reasons.
04:44:03[Saint](Classic 6G)
04:45:05scottjahh yes, a beautiful device. never used rockbox on a scroll wheel device, does it perform just as well in rockbox?
04:45:10scottjthe scrolling behavior
04:45:24[Saint]It does.
04:46:27[Saint]My second choice these days is the iPod Video, and then the Nano 1G, and the iPod 4G/Color/Photo after that.
04:47:09[Saint]Apple just plain knows how to make hardware. I despise the company, but their DAPs were great.
04:47:26scottjwhy nano 1g over 2g?
04:47:57scottjdap?
04:48:14scottjit is so sad to think no more scroll wheels will be made
04:49:19 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
04:51:07[Saint]audio reproduction quality.
04:51:14[Saint]re: why 1G over 2G.
04:53:51scottjis it possible to have a rockbox turn on when car turns on and turn off when car turns off just by being plugged into the cigarette lighter outlet?
04:54:17[Saint]Yes.
04:54:22scottjoh wow, nice
04:54:37scottjtake out the battery? :)
04:54:41scottjhow?
04:55:13[Saint]Hm?
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04:55:39scottjhow does one do that? does yours do that automatically w/o setting up anything?
04:55:58[Saint]http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch8.html#x11-1530008.5.5
04:57:17[Saint]ignore the ipod-video reference in the url, it is not important.
04:57:32[Saint]same applies, it's just the manual I chose.
04:57:44scottjcool, so works except for starting after a longer-than-idle time
04:57:49scottjgood enough I guess
04:58:19scottjsay my battery was low, should I be concerned about draining my car battery by leaving the mp3 player plugged in?
04:58:28scottjs/my battery/my mp3 player battery/
04:59:08[Saint]No, because if you car is wired in a sane fashion it won't be charging without the key turned to at least the accessory stop on the ignition.
04:59:23[Saint]If you car was wired by someone insane, or is truly ancient, then...possibly.
04:59:25scottjahh, nice, didn't know that/forgot it
05:00
05:00:01scottjis audio quality from ipod video 5g same as ipod classic 6g?
05:00:13scottjI see ipod video 5g for like $50
05:00:23[Saint]No. But it is far from terrible.
05:03:28GaloisI think it would be fine in any case. Most mp3 players won't drain a car battery very much even after a full charge.
05:03:58Galoisthe only way to cause problems would be if you repeatedly drained and then recharged the mp3 player through the car battery without starting the car
05:04:02scottj[Saint]: do you have a favorite car charger for ipod video 5g?
05:04:49Galoisactually, never mind, it could be possible to hose your car, if your charger accessory is flawed
05:07:26Galoisa full car battery has about 40 Ah capacity on the low end, and an ipod is like 2 Ah
05:08:16scottjGalois: cool, thanks for reference
05:08:37[Saint]That's not really particularly meaningful. It assumes that both device batteries are at perfect health.
05:09:07GaloisI'm assuming some degradation; from a new car battery you can probably expect 80 Ah
05:09:08[Saint]Tell me you've never come out to a flat battery from a tiny 12v passenger light being on from a car door being left open and I'll call you a liar.
05:09:29Galoisright, if you keep a light on all the time then you can lose
05:09:40Galoisthat's why I referenced faulty car chargers above. Some of them have lights or worse, like fans.
05:10:06Galoisbut the ipod itself, it will stop charging the battery when full. It has to. All Li-ion batteries need circuitry to stop overcharging
05:11:12 Quit [Franklin] (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
05:12:36Galoisbesides which, as long as the light in question is an LED light instead of an incandescant, it should be OK to leave on even for a very long time. Most car alarms draw more power on standby than the LED light.
05:12:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:19:39scottjthe ipod nano 2g is under unstable ports, maybe that's why I didn't think to install it
05:20:33Galoisthat's weird, it was pretty stable for a time (I used to use it)
05:21:13scottjit's the only item listed under unstable ports at http://www.rockbox.org/ that doesn't have a link
05:21:33[Saint]it's not terribly weird if you actually look at the descriptions of the port classifications.
05:21:53[Saint]unstable doesn't imply instability, unusable doesn't imply it's unusable, etc.
05:23:08Galois"As of Rockbox 3.7 (November 2010), the iPod Nano 2G is considered a stable target."
05:23:49[Saint]And it was.
05:23:54[Saint]And then it was demoted.
05:24:18Galoisdid it get less stable, or did the definition of stable become more stringent?
05:24:26[Saint]the former.
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